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Phew! Just finished reading all 34 pages of this, and I must say it's been very interesting reading, if a little repetitive at times. My reply after all this is likely to be rather rambling, you have been warned! I'll try and get my opinion on all 34 pages into one reply, although I may have to split depending on length. Here goes...
I should start by saying that I truly support a Pre-Ren shard, or even a Pre-AoS.
I would reactivate accounts for this.
I am not interested in convincing anyone else on this subject, indeed I think it would be impossible to change peoples minds on something they feel this strongly about.
My main reasoning behind this support is:
community.
For me, the community in UO is divided into the following categories:
- Those you fight with (i.e on same side)
- Those you fight against
- Those you rely on to provide you with a service
I may have overlooked something, but I think most interactions fall into one of these. I will try to explain why I think maintaining the diversity available in all three categories of player interaction is essential to the wellfare of this game, and why pre-UO:R created such a unique atmosphere that hasn't been recreated since.
I do not believe it is possible for the same sense of community to be achieved in a game where PvP is consensual and non-consequential as it was in Pre-Ren UO. Why? Because the number one driving force for strengthening human communities is shared hardships and danger. Without a worthy opponent there is nothing for people to band together for.
Without Villains there is no need for Heroes.
If PvP has no consequence on death (no items lost, time lost or whatever) then death is irrelevent and there is no perceived danger, it can still be fun, of course, but does not trigger the same reactions as dealing with a true threat. Likewise if it is consensual only, players can avoid any situation which they judge to be too dangerous, or absolutely avoid conflict of any kind. A combination of these factors creates a situation the solo player will prosper, he can allocate his time and resources as he chooses and gets 100% of the pie in return. The competition ceases to become "life and death" as it were, thus weakening the bonds in the community. It's a bit like playing a sport in real life, where you only have team training sessions but never actual matches against other teams.
I would also like to add this fantastic quote from one of
JhelomJoe's posts
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I would like to point out, that generally, people enjoy competing against other players in games. But if people are given a chance to not compete at all, then laziness takes over and always wins
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and this one, absolutely spot on, from
Lightshade:
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"Pleasantville was perfect...to those who didn't know any better. Ignorance is bliss. Reality brings the good with the bad, but it brings a level of good that can never be achieved without the bad."
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In some ways AoS has had more of a negative effect on my enjoyment of UO than Renaissance did. I started September of '99 but due to being away at university I only played the odd weekend and holidays. My pre-trammel experience was such that with the introduction of trammel the majority of the game was still unexplored for me, as it was for most of my friends at the time. As a result I wasn't that bothered about the split into two lands, I couldn't foresee the effect it would eventually have.
My memory is that for a considerable time the "old ways" survived in trammel, the attitudes summed up quite nicely in the
"Making Friends" quote given by JC from the t2a manual, that you never know who you're dealing with, so you better be nice, and greater co-operation between players, survived for quite some-time. However over time attitudes changed to take advantage of the new, what I like to call, "No-Consequence PvM". Soaring populations of Bards and Tamers, which used to be more vulnerable to PKs were now able to roam at will through the dungeons of trammel, removing the need for co-operation between PvMers. The farming capacity of these character types, also warriors with silver on lichs, creates a huge influx of gold into the economy.
The addition of all this gold plus the introduction of power hour, allowed people to train characters that would previously have been unviable. Everyone could afford to buy the ingots to GM their Smith, rather than have to go through the grind of mining for themselves. I am as guilty of this as anyone. Although resource collecters prospered, the craftsmen we had all relied upon previously suffered and in the end, with the addition of item insurance, became almost defunct. Thus another facet of the community deteriorates. The other service I can think of provided by other players besides crafting is that of tuition. In a pre-ren environment, ignorance would very often lead to death, so young players had alot more to gain from listening to their elders, who at the same time could pass on values and etiquette required in maintaning a co-operative and healthy society. There is so much more to be learnt from another player that cannot possibly be explained in any tutorial mission, or online playguide. (i.e companion program = good). I am aware that there a still a few "clueless newbies" out there still, but the current environment is so forgiving that there is less incentive for them to seek help from older players. I think when they first mentioned virtue systems however many years ago (seems like ages!) the proposed humility virtue was something along the lines of having to provide guidance to a young player, who could then award you with humility points if they felt the service had been worthwhile. This would have been great IMO, if they had actually done it, even if it was open abuse. I really cannot stress enough how important I believe it to be for players to learn the value of respect for other players.
I am well aware, however that the player base has changed a great deal since 2000, and those players left still subscribing today, to my mind, contain a smaller proportion of co-operatively minded people, than before. For that reason, I believe a Pre:UOR shard's success would depend on being able to attract back ex-players, rather than being filled with the representative demographic of the current player base. Since EA have sent out a survey to existing customers asking about interest in a pre-Ren shard, how about sending one out to a sample of customers who played pre-trammel quit any time between UO:R and the present day? Also from a financial point of view, increasing subscriptions would be a great plus.
So I think that covers part 1, why I would like to see a Pre-Ren shard. Now for Part 2, or what would I like to be kept/got rid of if it did happen:
First and foremost - Felucca and t2a only. I don't like being able to walk from skara to vesper without seeing a single person!
Second and foremost! No AoS items!
Third No Powerscrolls!
No Runics!
Make spellcasting work like it used to. If interupted casting you have to wait to cast another spell the time it would have taken if you hadn't been interrupted. i.e. demon/bs - long time
des mani - short time
(when they changed this with AoS it killed duelling for me).
Then in no particular order:
Old style text for player names and guild titles, old style text for npcs.
To copy JC's idea:
I quote from the t2a manual:
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Useful questions to ask NPCs:
Where am I?
What time is it?
How are you?
What do you need?
Have you heard any rumours?
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Even if the only rumour they ever seemed to have heard was:
"I hear there is a magic staff a great distance to the east" or some such guff!
It would be great to be able to speak other than the those commands which serve a purpose. It was touches like this, those unneccesary options, that made the game so immersive.
Stat loss, Yes!
O/C, Yes!
Factions - possible, but I am concerned more about the impact of faction vendors on goods such as regs, and ore/lumber. Would be interesting to see what happened with factions being able to set prices in towns when fel was the only shard though.
No 8x8, although I am not sure. Don't want skill gain too easy. GM mage should mean a shed load of work, not 6 hours in a boat.
Old school dex penalties on armour - i.e. plate only IIRC.
Low spawn rate in dungeons, not the ilshenar inspired rate we have now. Less gold coming into the economy is surely a good thing?
Combat - Nothing that was added with renaissance. No nox mages, no lj's, no special moves, no scribes. No heal through poison. field spells affect all. No fields in town. Normal spells allowed in town(why was it not allowed in the first place?).
Coloured ore but no AR bonus from it. No coloured leathers.
Proper magic resist as it was in late 99.
No Bods, ergo no runics
Keep skill/stat locks, stats capped at 100.
Meditation in.
Healing worthwhile skill. 12 second timers on self was it? 5 or so on others?
Provo not difficulty based? I havent played a bard since before p16 so I don't really know on this one.
Silver weapons, yes, other slayers not sure. If yes at levels they were at before plague beasts.
Newbie items + 100 gold!
No bonded pets, no ethy horses.
Leaves on trees!
No repair deeds! ( I didn't, in all my time playing uo, once lose stuff to a dodgy smith. Learn names you can trust, I can still remember the smiths I used to buy from on a regular basis. Ulyses, YvesSaintLaurent, SmithyBloke. There others on the tip of my tounge, names I haven't heard in 4 or 5 years. I love this reminiscing type stuff!)
Oh and templates like my old 2xgm dexer with some healing, parry, resist, wrestle, magery, hiding, tailoring, item id, meditation and anat. Would love that to be viable for adventuring again.
Well I think that is probably enough from me. So In summary I would like to say the reason I believe a renaissance shard would be beneficial would be
greater community spirit.
As for all the naysayers. There is no evidence which conclusively proves how many ex-UO players would return from freeshards or wherever else. None of us here really know how much it would cost to set up a server running a version of UO:R, its all speculation.
The argument with Surgeries(apologies if spelt wrong) seems to based on the fact that he believes this cost to be excessive compared to income it would earn. Fine. Other people disagree. Fine. I can see no further benefit to discussing it as neither side has yet presented any evidence which could be described as convincing. The only way to find out is to test. That's why I suggest an e-mail survey of past customers who subscribed pre-trammel but quit after, also those who quit since AoS would be a good group to survey.
I think silence from the devs on this topic is not necessarily a bad thing. If they wanted to say no, they would just say it IMO.
Lastly
@Gareth420? - Europe really doesn't need a new shard. Europa is empty compared to 2-3 years ago, and drachenfels always has been underpopulated. (I've always thought the naming of drachs was a big mistake, as it alienates non-germans)
Thanks for taking the time to slog through my ramblings,
Regards,
Vas D
Europa
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damn... i agree on all here.. just not "No coloured leathers." the dye tubs from reward is nice.....just dont want any neon
and make Black dye tub.. spawn on the black lich
and i would like to see paladin and necro.. on the shard...(ofc need alot of balancing to fit in)
dunno why...
