SUPERNOVA NERF POLL

[CovenantX]

As @randy has mentioned, you and your buddy Higgs haven't been seen for months now on any active shard pvping, but you're here trying to tell DEV's how to make pvp "better".... Give me a break here.

Pvp must be really good now, hence why change is needed... right? lol I think you need to start thinking a little more before you re-post things your biased buddies have already said.

 

[Aeyko]

Pvp must be really good now, hence why change is needed... right? lol I think you need to start thinking a little more before you re-post things your biased buddies have already said.

Pvp is fine. Does it need changes, absolutely but I compete just fine. and @randy is not my buddy. He's an enemy but a respected pvper. You yourself wanted the mage changes taken back and that never happened. Those changes made weak players capable of living longer due to casting focus, eaters, etc. Now you're wanting to add things to focused mage lists and change the game AGAIN for weaker players to feel betetr about pvping, which they will not do anyhow. Hence why we rarely see you on Atlantic any longer as well. If you really wanted to become a better player, you'd adapt and overcome instead of crying with the trammies from Luna.

@Aeyko . Everytime one of you guys coins the word "real pvper" you are not adding and constructive feedback on why supernova isn't OP. All your doing is helping the anti-nova argument even more. Try to have an adult conversation instead of insulting and saying people suck. None of you "real pvpers" have done anything but talk down to people cause apparently you need to feed your UO ego. Grow up and lets try to make the game better and more fun!

I have read over these forums and have seen MANY statements from REAL pvpers that stated how Nova's are not "OP". We've even suggested changes that make sense. All you hear is that we think you suck. Yes, we do think you suck. You do suck. However, what we hate the most is that you seem to have some sort of voice with the DEV's on subjects that you do not have any idea of. If nova's were in fact so OP, I'd welcome you taking the people wanting the nova's nerfed and placed them against the ones that do not want them nerfed, allowing the players that believe them to be OP to use them and not allowing the real pvpers use of them. The real pvpers would win in astounding fashion without using the "OP" nova. The difference there is the knowledge of the game. The difference between the two groups is remarkably astounding. There should not even be an argument here about a single pvp potion or further crippling mage pvp. However, you guys would like to see the game dumbed down to a playable form where you feel you can compete.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

So your counter-arguments for my points advocating a Nova nerf are what exactly? Here, I'll list them so it's easier for you to respond:

1) They do too much damage
2) They're unavoidable
3) They go off instantly

Take as much time as you need, drop the "Real pvp'ers" line and the insults, and get back to me with LOGICAL arguments.

You know, I have argued all of this and all you do is deny. I'm lost as to why we should even be having an argument with you anymore. I showed that I was willing to compromise but you are not.


1) They do too much damage - I know how to kite the damage
2) They're unavoidable - I know how to kite the damage
3) They go off instantly - I know how to kite the damage

That is a completely valid argument and you saying it isn't is counterproductive to YOUR argument. I know you/dc/cov are sitting in vent together brainstorming on how to effectively argue against this. At this moment in time I'm going to just chalk it up as a really, really good troll to get a rise out of people.

 

[DJ Diddles]

If @CovenantX, @drcossack, and @Great DC are going to continue trying to take the moral high ground and insist on only responding to logical arguments from anti-nova nerf people, I suggest you respond to these posts in this very thread:

Take as much time as you need, drop the "Real pvp'ers" line and the insults, and get back to me with LOGICAL arguments.

Perhaps the people not posting about it, don't need too, because they see the argument being sorely lost on the defense, what else could it be?

-----

I vote for less damage (if the devs insist on nerfing them) with no delay as most players use those as an end shot, so it has to be quick enough, and the target must be low enough. I am super unhappy with the 1sec timer, but im ok with the conflags timer

Getting really bored of cry baby people on here banging on and on about nerfing something basically making 80% of the nerf arguement themselves and purely because they have all the time in the world to sit and type about it means its probably going to happen. NO DELAY for novas. No timer and leave the damage alone, or at the very most, cap damage equal to that of a bombard trigger. [the downside to the lesser amount of skillpoints is its not a targettable spell and can still miss if the player is not in range].

I would be fine with a minimal toning down of the novas in some fashion. They are a bit overpowered as is.
Don't get me wrong if they are unchanged I will have no problem fighting with and against them.

My only agenda is to hope they don't make them completely useless. It is going from one extreme to the other.

Long story short, remove the timer and nerf the damage or tile radius. Seems like a reasonable trade.

There are different things I would think could make novas a bit better. I am not saying to apply all of these, but different solutions could help solve the problem.

1. Scale back the damage a bit.
2. Split damage if it hits more than one target.
3. Make it so you target only one person (like a bombard), but have to be within 3 tiles.
4. Delete the potion from game =)

Adding a delay... is not the answer.

 

[CovenantX]

Pvp is fine. Does it need changes, absolutely but I compete just fine. and @randy is not my buddy. He's an enemy but a respected pvper. You yourself wanted the mage changes taken back and that never happened.

I know you fight randy, but um, you're biased because of sticking with supernovas Obviously being OP, and not stating anything that suggests otherwise.

I'm very curious though,what "Mage Changes" did I want taken back that never happened? because the things you say in the next part of this quote goes against most things I wanted. (my signature has been the same for about 5+ years btw. no point in changing it until "player skill" makes the most difference.

Those changes made weak players capable of living longer due to casting focus, eaters, etc. Now you're wanting to add things to focused mage lists and change the game AGAIN for weaker players to feel betetr about pvping, which they will not do anyhow. Hence why we rarely see you on Atlantic any longer as well. If you really wanted to become a better player, you'd adapt and overcome instead of crying with the trammies from Luna.

If I wanted to live longer, I'd carry more potions and actually have alchemy & EP on every single character. - only one (two ways) way to play is killing pvp, if it wasn't there'd be more than 2-3 templates in pvp.

Alchemy (mostly because of supernovas) is 10x better than scribe. even more so over poisoning. it's even better than most other casting schools that require 200+ skill for their uses.

But um, I like the "adapt and overcome instead of crying with the trammies from luna" comment, wouldn't that apply both ways? are you unable to adapt to playing without a guaranteed 20-27 damage potion?

G-heal potions = > HPR + Damage Eater combined. but hey, why not stack them, right? let's also give alchemists a guaranteed 20-27 damage potion they can only miss with if they suck at following people lol... (ego check)

38-45 = 4 hp/s with only heal potions.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

38-45 = 4 hp/s with only heal potions.

Can you clarify your math here because I'm not seeing that equate to 4 hp/s

 

[drcossack]

You know, I have argued all of this and all you do is deny. I'm lost as to why we should even be having an argument with you anymore. I showed that I was willing to compromise but you are not.


1) They do too much damage - I know how to kite the damage
2) They're unavoidable - I know how to kite the damage
3) They go off instantly - I know how to kite the damage

That is a completely valid argument and you saying it isn't is counterproductive to YOUR argument. I know you/dc/cov are sitting in vent together brainstorming on how to effectively argue against this. At this moment in time I'm going to just chalk it up as a really, really good troll to get a rise out of people.

From an earlier thread:

...which is exactly what I said by posting the numbers I did. It's not rocket science.

What I am asking for is for less/capped damage on Novas, because for the amount of investment required, it does too much damage. It's essentially an Explosion with no cast time, and a lot less investment (100 Skill points and an item property.) Either that or remove the damage bonus that they have from Alchemy/EP.

When they're used properly, which isn't hard (ffs, Myst, who is probably the worst player I have ever seen in Fel, could use them properly without much effort), how are you going to kite the damage?

@DJ Diddles: I don't have a problem with Paith's posts on it - if you can't tell, my issues are with the following: 1) A lot of the "Novas are fine" posts that don't say WHY they are fine, and 2) the insults like Aeyko's posts. But, since you brought in multiple quotes:

Agree with Gandalf and Paith. I advocated a damage nerf already, as my above post (from one of the earlier threads) indicates. Timer, I've already said I'm on the fence on. But I dislike that they go off instantly. Even so, a 1 second delay still won't make them useless, just harder to use...which I'm fine with. I'll admit that a tile radius nerf didn't occur to me (Oreo's post), but I'd be ok with that too...or keep the tile radius @ 5, but the damage reduces the further you are from the center of its AoE.

Pwny's post: main argument is "leave damage as is"...but the damage and their activation time (instant) is the problem, so they aren't fine as is.

 

[CovenantX]

Can you clarify your math here because I'm not seeing that equate to 4 hp/s

38-45 hp with heal potion with a 10second cooldown = average of 4hp/s if you factor the cooldown.

Edit: Sorry, it's 37-45 (still remains at 4.1 hp/sec)

 

[CovenantX]

If @CovenantX, @drcossack, and @Great DC are going to continue trying to take the moral high ground and insist on only responding to logical arguments from anti-nova nerf people, I suggest you respond to these posts in this very thread:






-----

Not debating that they are viable suggestions... the point is, those people know the current nova (on live shards) is OP and needs a nerf. I'm in no way shape or form saying that 1 second delay & use location is the "Best" change, BUT... a change is absolutely needed. regardless of what that change may be.

 

[Aeyko]

I know you fight randy, but um, you're biased because of sticking with supernovas Obviously being OP, and not stating anything that suggests otherwise.

I'm very curious though,what "Mage Changes" did I want taken back that never happened? because the things you say in the next part of this quote goes against most things I wanted. (my signature has been the same for about 5+ years btw. no point in changing it until "player skill" makes the most difference.



If I wanted to live longer, I'd carry more potions and actually have alchemy & EP on every single character. - only one (two ways) way to play is killing pvp, if it wasn't there'd be more than 2-3 templates in pvp.

Alchemy (mostly because of supernovas) is 10x better than scribe. even more so over poisoning. it's even better than most other casting schools that require 200+ skill for their uses.

But um, I like the "adapt and overcome instead of crying with the trammies from luna" comment, wouldn't that apply both ways? are you unable to adapt to playing without a guaranteed 20-27 damage potion?

G-heal potions = > HPR + Damage Eater combined. but hey, why not stack them, right? let's also give alchemists a guaranteed 20-27 damage potion they can only miss with if they suck at following people lol... (ego check)

38-45 = 4 hp/s with only heal potions.

I do not run alchy for nova's. The fact that you do not realize why pvpers use alchemy is quite funny tbh. But just to clarify, I use it for conflag potions alone. I can kill you without alchemy or any of the alchemy required stuff you're complaining about. The reason I'm posting about this change, is because it's another change towards mainly mages but a few other players use alchemy and nova's as well. Sure, scale the dmg back but do not make an already expensive item relatively useless. As for the mage changes comment, you clearly didn't comprehend my comment because that was exactly what I was referencing. You keep speaking on his moral high note of "Keep pvp player skilled" which I agree with BUT in order for your argument to be valid, you'd have to be one of the skilled ones. Scribe is in no way useless if you have the spell play for it but again this is just another area where a lesser pvper has an opinion and wants changes to be made in order to make their play style relevant. I will tell you this, no matter what changes are made I will adapt and overcome whatever that may be. At this point, I'm really just trying to keep the pvp community, the real pvp community, from being shat on again by the nerf whistle blowers.

 

[CovenantX]

I do not run alchy for nova's. The fact that you do not realize why pvpers use alchemy is quite funny tbh. But just to clarify, I use it for conflag potions alone

So why are you arguing to keep novas the way they are? lol my point, is that because of everything alchemy gets, they do not need novas. novas push alchemy over the top, making it that much better than the other options.... I'm glad you can see it, but are blindly arguing just to argue (or maybe it's something else) please, tell us.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

38-45 hp with heal potion with a 10second cooldown = average of 4hp/s if you factor the cooldown.

Edit: Sorry, it's 37-45 (still remains at 4.1 hp/sec)

0-10 seconds 11-21 seconds 22-32 seconds 33-43 seconds 44-54 seconds 55-65. I only see you being able to consecutively use it 5 times in the course of 60 seconds. 45*5/60 = 3.75 hp/s

Now in all honesty, who is actually spamming heal pot on timer? Regardless, of our math (should we agree on it or not).

 

[CovenantX]

As for the mage changes comment, you clearly didn't comprehend my comment because that was exactly what I was referencing. You keep speaking on his moral high note of "Keep pvp player skilled" which I agree with BUT in order for your argument to be valid, you'd have to be one of the skilled ones.

So, pick up alchemy... ? I've killed you 2v1 without alchemy... wouldn't adding in a nova just make it easier? (I fail to see your point)

Scribe is in no way useless if you have the spell play for it but again this is just another area where a lesser pvper has an opinion and wants changes to be made in order to make their play style relevant. I will tell you this, no matter what changes are made I will adapt and overcome whatever that may be. At this point, I'm really just trying to keep the pvp community, the real pvp community, from being shat on again by the nerf whistle blowers.

lesser pvper because of playing without alchemy? gotta love it when I am having my point made for me by the people who oppose what I'm saying. (Game's too ez)

 

[Aeyko]

@CovenantX You get on these forums and lie stating you've killed me 2v1. For arguments sake we can set up a fight, you can use all of this OP stuff here and I'll gladly educate you on where you stand.

Alchemy gets novas, conflags and a few extra hp g heals etc from 100 skill points. Name another skill that uses 100 skill points that gets that little. Even scribe gives you more casting focus and more spell dmg PER SPELL, which adds up quickly. And I call you a lesser pvper because you are a lesser pvper, point and case, you will not take the fight I mentioned above because I'd have a screenshot of you dying in a matter of moments.

 

[CovenantX]

0-10 seconds 11-21 seconds 22-32 seconds 33-43 seconds 44-54 seconds 55-65. I only see you being able to consecutively use it 5 times in the course of 60 seconds. 45*5/60 = 3.75 hp/s

Now in all honesty, who is actually spamming heal pot on timer? Regardless, of our math (should we agree on it or not).

No one uses them on pot timer. (nor should they)

but saying things like "HPR & Damage Eater" are what makes people near-impossible to kill without factoring in what makes a much bigger difference is not helping...

UO needs to be easier to kill people not harder. Stop nerfing everything.

I don't disagree with the above quote (which came from a different thread), I disagree with making it easier to kill people via consumable means. the above quote was directed at a nerf to suprnovas.

Adjusting focus spec to be less of a penalty to SDI = more damage for anyone not playing a pure-focus spec template.
Tactics requirement removal = more options (templates) for burst Or utility use through specials with a reduction in damage for most attacks.
Supernova nerf = Alchemy is stull absolutely amazing and could even be toned down a slight bit more, but supernovas are just too good. (this is why novas are the main thing being talked about with alchemy).

the only people that are getting nerfed from this publish are the people that only use the most "OP" garbage in UO right now... Helen Keller could see that.

 

[CovenantX]

@CovenantX You get on these forums and lie stating you've killed me 2v1. For arguments sake we can set up a fight, you can use all of this OP stuff here and I'll gladly educate you on where you stand.

Alchemy gets novas, conflags and a few extra hp g heals etc from 100 skill points. Name another skill that uses 100 skill points that gets that little. Even scribe gives you more casting focus and more spell dmg PER SPELL, which adds up quickly. And I call you a lesser pvper because you are a lesser pvper, point and case, you will not take the fight I mentioned above because I'd have a screenshot of you dying in a matter of moments.

I'm "Gurads" btw. Asha can back that up... he was your partner at the time.

 

[Aeyko]

I'm "Gurads" btw. Asha can back that up... he was your partner at the time.

The fact that you're claiming 2v1 when you had an xhealer then entire time making it 2v2 on your omen archer with Asha known for not x healing... If you're claiming that a fight, lets please do this 1v1 at arena. I beg you to take this fight, I'll make quick work of you. You can PM me confirmation if you want to do this or not, so we do not derail this any further.

Back to the point. Taking MORE options away from players is only further hurting this game. You can take tactics away and add other skills but this does not change the fact that dexers will hit mages much more often without parry, making the tactics removal ONLY beneficial to the dexers... So why not take nova's away as well further crippling todays mage. Which is obviously what a guy screaming for mage changes while playing a necro archer is asking for... Ha ha

 

[CovenantX]

@CovenantX You get on these forums and lie stating you've killed me 2v1. For arguments sake we can set up a fight, you can use all of this OP stuff here and I'll gladly educate you on where you stand.

Settle down Beavis. (ego check again lol, this is fun)

Alchemy gets novas, conflags and a few extra hp g heals etc from 100 skill points. Name another skill that uses 100 skill points that gets that little. Even scribe gives you more casting focus and more spell dmg PER SPELL, which adds up quickly. And I call you a lesser pvper because you are a lesser pvper, point and case, you will not take the fight I mentioned above because I'd have a screenshot of you dying in a matter of moments.

Scribe +10% SDI = explode FS Lightening is still less damage than non-scribe 30% SDI with explode/FS Nova. hence alchemy is better. Alchemy shouldn't be Better, it should be as closely balanced as possible so that Alchemy isn't the only thing being used.

I honestly, don't see what is so hard to understand about it.

 

[CovenantX]

The fact that you're claiming 2v1 when you had an xhealer then entire time making it 2v2 on your omen archer with Asha known for not x healing... If you're claiming that a fight, lets please do this 1v1 at arena. I beg you to take this fight, I'll make quick work of you. You can PM me confirmation if you want to do this or not, so we do not derail this any further.

Back to the point. Taking MORE options away from players is only further hurting this game. You can take tactics away and add other skills but this does not change the fact that dexers will hit mages much more often without parry, making the tactics removal ONLY beneficial to the dexers... So why not take nova's away as well further crippling todays mage. Which is obviously what a guy screaming for mage changes while playing a necro archer is asking for... Ha ha

It was fencing, not archery..

Tactics removal won't benefit any "dexer" more than hurt them unless they're NS/DS (which is underplayed just like the rest of the dexers in UO... obviously excluding archers...)
It allows more diversity.... maybe you didn't play before the tactics requirement was implemented?

 

[drcossack]

The fact that you're claiming 2v1 when you had an xhealer then entire time making it 2v2 on your omen archer with Asha known for not x healing... If you're claiming that a fight, lets please do this 1v1 at arena. I beg you to take this fight, I'll make quick work of you. You can PM me confirmation if you want to do this or not, so we do not derail this any further.

Back to the point. Taking MORE options away from players is only further hurting this game. You can take tactics away and add other skills but this does not change the fact that dexers will hit mages much more often without parry, making the tactics removal ONLY beneficial to the dexers... So why not take nova's away as well further crippling todays mage. Which is obviously what a guy screaming for mage changes while playing a necro archer is asking for... Ha ha

Honest question: Did you even read the focused spec changes that are currently up on TC? Having Parry only drops your SDI cap by 5%, which is maybe 1 point on certain spells. I hit myself with Exp/FS multiple times (with and without Scribe), and @Bleak even give me all of my template/suit's info, and there was no noticeable change in my damage, especially compared to what's currently in place on live shards.

Do you even math, bro?

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

No one uses them on pot timer. (nor should they)

But doesn't what you just said basically make that argument invalidated. If no one uses them on timer, then how can you actually say that the 3.75 hp/s @ 45hp pots is accurate in comparison to HPR/eaters/masteries/100hpr poiton/confidence?

 

[Skalazar]

Not saying this is the right one, but novas need a change. They require absolutely zero thought to use effectively. At least spell trigger, which is probably the closest comparison one could make, requires you to find time to recast it before you can use it again.

This guy should be the PvP balance guy. Only person in this thread that can keep emotions out of it and get the game balanced right.

@Bleak only listen to this guy's opinion ignore everyone else.

 

[Captn Norrington]

Hello everyone,

Please keep the trashtalking and insults out of this thread. There have been many constructive posts and this is a great topic, but the insults really aren't needed. Some posts have been removed. I understand it's a heated topic, but all the attacks and insults do is distract from the main purpose of the thread and derail the topic.

Thanks

 

[chester rockwell]

Maybe not a timer, per se.....but def something to tone them down. I'd be fine with that timer too. No humongous deal.

 

[OREOGL]

This guy should be the PvP balance guy. Only person in this thread that can keep emotions out of it and get the game balanced right.

@Bleak only listen to this guy's opinion ignore everyone else.

Yeah listen to the person who wants to nerf trapped boxes for no reason...

 

[chad]

Yeah listen to the person who wants to nerf trapped boxes for no reason...

I've never made a comment on trapped boxes.

 

[OREOGL]

I've never made a comment on trapped boxes.

I know I was referring to the dude.

 

[Revan123]

A vast majority of the No's are heavily biased, and I'm pretty sure at least 3 of them don't pvp...but I believe they sell supernovas, so they aren't gonna want the cash cow to disappear.

So the people that voted "No" are biased... but the people that voted "Yes" aren't?

Where people play is irrelevant, as is the "they don't use novas" argument. You don't have to use something to know it's overpowered...and maybe "half of the pvp playerbase" wouldn't have been banned if they weren't ********.

The "they don't use nova" argument is irrelevant... BUT the people who use nova's or sell them are the ones that are bias'ed? Man, where do you come up with this stuff. And half the pvp playerbase that is banned wouldn't have been banned if Stratics wasn't a bunch of morons that have to censor everything they don't like, even if it doesn't actually break the rules. Not to mention a number of rules are ********, like banning controversial issues. In my country, we have a little something called "Freedom of Speech." It's an ideal that we SHOULD try to live up to, instead of being forum nazi's.

I'm on the fence. I do like the delay idea, but I'm not sure the currently implemented one is right. You can still see it coming, which is good, but I'm kinda leaning towards it being thrown similar to explosion/conflag.

This idea is completely asinine. Novas are the one equalizer, because any template can use them. It's the one thing that helps balance the current "Rock, Scissors, Paper" aspect of template vs. template fighting. Try fighting a wrestle healing mage on an archer without alchemy/novas. It's utterly ********. OR better yet, try killing ANYONE decent on a mage without novas.

And the pro-nova's side argument has boiled down to "they're fine as they are, leave them as is." which is NOT an argument, especially compared to what the anti-nova people have been posting. It's the equivalent of a 5 year old saying "nuh-uh, you're wrong" and throwing a temper-tantrum.

Saying that they are fine as they are is not an argument? Why the **** not? Lol. So it's an invalid argument, just because you said so? You don't need to give a reason? It's just similiar to a temper tantrum? Well by that standard, the same thing could be said about your argument. You're not making a valid argument as to why they should be changed. You're just throwing a temper tantrum. See how that works?

 

[Revan123]

Complaining that people are giving their input on something they don't use / doesn't affect them is a valid complaint. I wouldn't sit here and talk about what the devs should do about BODs when I don't do anything with them, and people certainly would have the right to tell me I don't have a say in the argument.

This isn't an entirely fair argument, because even if you don't use BODs yourself, they can't be used AGAINST you; but part of this argument has a good point. People in this game always cry about things until they try it. I did this a lot my first year tbh. They think something is OP because they don't play it, and then they play it and realize it's not. It's like in Politics how people always vote in their own self-interest. In this case, that's what people are probably doing. But that said, if you look at the situation objectively, Supernova potions do NOT need a nerf. Not even damage-wise. When you look at the defensiveness of templates now a days, if you nerf novas we are going to make the game super-defensive again; and that just makes the "Rock, Scissors, Paper" aspect of the game even more unbearable- because the only way to kill anyone 1v1 will be to play a super-offensive template that would suck in group fighting.

I would be for the Supernova nerf, in most cases, but not this one. The way the game mechanics are set up, we need to keep supernovas the way they are. And from the way the Developers are looking to change things, (scaling back things like SDI w/parry and nerfing moving shots to ****), Supernovas are going to be all the more necessary now.

 

[Revan123]

@PwnySlaystation & @elster

I gave my arguments on why novas are OP. Not once was it refuted, other than "it's fine as they are", "Novas aren't an issue", etc - do you want me to pull specific examples of people saying that?

There's 3. Saying "They're fine as they are" is not an argument in favor of them. Saying "they do too much damage for the investment required" is an ACTUAL argument against them. As is "they're an uninterruptible and unavoidable source of damage that goes off instantly." Saying "they're fine, leave them alone" does not help your case unless you give reasons WHY. You're not giving reasons.

BODs is a non sequitur, btw. I do pvp, and while I certainly don't use novas, they can affect me when I play, and in a lot of cases, actually do so. I have the right to complain about them. Not sure how you guys aren't getting this.

Of course, Pwny is going to ignore this "Wall of text" because it shuts down his argument.

So....

Novas need change = argument

but

Novas don't need change = invalid argument

?

Interesting argument you have there...

 

[Revan123]

@Aeyko . Everytime one of you guys coins the word "real pvper" you are not adding and constructive feedback on why supernova isn't OP. All your doing is helping the anti-nova argument even more. Try to have an adult conversation instead of insulting and saying people suck. None of you "real pvpers" have done anything but talk down to people cause apparently you need to feed your UO ego. Grow up and lets try to make the game better and more fun!

I agree that the politics of the argument is bad, but beneath the veil of condescension there is a pretty valid argument there. A lot of the people who are in favor of nerfing novas are not good players who do not understand game mechanics. They do not understand what would be best for the game. In comparison, I've seen many good pvpers argue against their own interest for the sake of improving the game- because they actually understand game mechanics, and know what would be best.

 

[Revan123]

And the no's aren't biased, they are actual pvpers who have both killed and died to supernovas. The yes's are literally people who haven't posted a single msg about combat changes and might not even be pvpers at all, I only recognize like a third of them.

That's an excellent argument right there. The people that use supernovas, also die to supernovas. But the people who don't use supernovas ONLY die to supernovas. The "bias" argument if anything should be made against the "Yes'es"

 

[Revan123]

Pvp must be really good now, hence why change is needed... right? lol I think you need to start thinking a little more before you re-post things your biased buddies have already said.

Saying that Randy is Aeyko's "buddy" couldn't be further from the truth. These guys non-stop **** talk each other. The only time they ever "buddy" up is when they're arguing with me, because they know they need to, to take me on hahahaha.

But in this case, ALL THREE OF US agree on something, which is a rarity to say the least.

 

[Revan123]

Not debating that they are viable suggestions... the point is, those people know the current nova (on live shards) is OP and needs a nerf. I'm in no way shape or form saying that 1 second delay & use location is the "Best" change, BUT... a change is absolutely needed. regardless of what that change may be.

Why don't we do a little experiment here. Why don't you actually try using Novas (as they are now) for about a month. Use them for a month, and as a matter of fact, use cure pots, heal pots, refresh pots, strengths and agilities while you're at it too. Actually... while you're at that, try pvp'ing with some armor on, instead of hanging around the Lake Superior gate looking to pvp naked all of the time; and THEN tell me if Supernovas are still OP.

Okay, the last one WAS a troll (not that you haven't on many occasions pvped without armor haha). But the suggestions for using supernovas AND potions in general for a month was completely serious.

 

[Revan123]

I do not run alchy for nova's. The fact that you do not realize why pvpers use alchemy is quite funny tbh. But just to clarify, I use it for conflag potions alone. I can kill you without alchemy or any of the alchemy required stuff you're complaining about. The reason I'm posting about this change, is because it's another change towards mainly mages but a few other players use alchemy and nova's as well. Sure, scale the dmg back but do not make an already expensive item relatively useless. As for the mage changes comment, you clearly didn't comprehend my comment because that was exactly what I was referencing. You keep speaking on his moral high note of "Keep pvp player skilled" which I agree with BUT in order for your argument to be valid, you'd have to be one of the skilled ones. Scribe is in no way useless if you have the spell play for it but again this is just another area where a lesser pvper has an opinion and wants changes to be made in order to make their play style relevant. I will tell you this, no matter what changes are made I will adapt and overcome whatever that may be. At this point, I'm really just trying to keep the pvp community, the real pvp community, from being shat on again by the nerf whistle blowers.

Man, they just don't understand. The only mage that is really worth playing these days is a parry mage. Now they want to reduce SDI for parry mages to 15, AND nerf supernovas. Mages ALREADY have a hard time killing anyone good. With these changes, it's going to be the downfall of this game. I'm sure of it. Even the few hardcore pvp'ers that have stuck with the game are going to lose interest.

And before anyone accuses me of being "bias" in favor of mages, consider that I have 3 dexxers, and play them more than I play a mage.

 

[Critical Gaming]

Lol calling people biased is so inapplicable for this argument. We all get hit with novas on a regular basis. I don't even use them on all my chars.

@drcossack you probably think they're OP since you run with 2 full hands and can't chug on demand so you likely die before you can disarm a shield and chug a heal, giving the enemy an extra 2 seconds or so to set it off. I'd highly recommend running an open hand for awhile, and also actually try to 1v1 someone that isn't a total newb and you'll see what we're talking about as far as kill shots since everyone has eaters and stuff now.

I started reading the rest of the changes being proposed and my heart sank to the floor. It's so energy consuming trying to counter-argue when nobody wants to listen anyways and half of the PvP population is banned from participating.

 

[kelmo]

...and half of the PvP population is banned from participating.

This is at least the second time you have made this claim. It is pure conjecture on your part and has no relevance to the conversation at hand.

 

[Aeyko]

This is at least the second time you have made this claim. It is pure conjecture on your part and has no relevance to the conversation at hand.

The relevance to the conversation at hand is that the banned pvpers have no voice here and only the people that do not pvp have the voice. I'll take this one step further as in the back and fourth yesterday one of the non pvpers felt insulted by me and reported a post in attempt to get me banned. This is the on going issue here with the "If you cannot beat them, ban them." mentality. Pvpers are often brash in situations where you have a group of individuals ,who have no idea what they are talking about, leading the way for changes to be made. It's very similar to me holding a role playing event or trying to lead a pvm themed adventure... It would fail miserable, just like these changes.

 

[kelmo]

*chuckles*

 

[Smoot]

This is at least the second time you have made this claim. It is pure conjecture on your part and has no relevance to the conversation at hand.

its really not kelmo, please dont troll. this is not a pvp forum, and its common knowledge that a very large percentage of pvpers cant post on stratics.

 

[Stndbvan]

if nova potions are changed the way the patch notes currently state, i will never be able to get a kill shot on any of these b rate players due to the ability to just run away whenever they please. You cant stun them either due to auto trap box so i dunno what i'm supposed to do when these slobs just bash their mouse button down with their tongue and escape impending doom 100% everyday.

edit: not flame post just the truth dont ban me pls

 

[kelmo]

I stand by my statement. Dozens of people who no longer post or even participate in Stratics conversations might agree with me.

 

[Revan123]

I stand by my statement. Dozens of people who no longer post or even participate in Stratics conversations might agree with me.

On what exactly? What would they agree with you on?

 

[drcossack]

I'll take this one step further as in the back and fourth yesterday one of the non pvpers felt insulted by me and reported a post in attempt to get me banned.

That wasn't why, and you damn well know it. Or maybe I should have @Captn Norrington post part of your deleted post? You should already know which part got it removed though

Saying that they are fine as they are is not an argument? Why the **** not? Lol. So it's an invalid argument, just because you said so? You don't need to give a reason? It's just similiar to a temper tantrum? Well by that standard, the same thing could be said about your argument. You're not making a valid argument as to why they should be changed. You're just throwing a temper tantrum. See how that works?

Do you know how arguing works? If not, please read up on it. I backed up my argument (abridged version from yesterday re-posted below) with #s and reasons. Nobody who's for Novas has done the same - "they're fine as they are" isn't valid when there's ample evidence to the contrary, and "we need them to kill people" doesn't help your argument either.

So the people that voted "No" are biased... but the people that voted "Yes" aren't?

I've used broken/OP **** in various games through the years. Is it fun? Yeah, for a while. Then I get bored with it. But it's easy to recognize when something's broken/OP. what about any of my anti-Nova statements is incorrect? Here they are again:

1) They do too much damage
2) They're unavoidable
3) They go off instantly

I've seen all 3 of those on multiple occasions, and that was BEFORE I decided to use them on Test, which was simply to see their damage with various modifiers.

I've been in vent with you. I mean, sure, half the time I'd just go in to the afk channel when you came in, and the rest of the time I'd just stay silent until you left, but when I actually felt like talking, you clearly have a decent grasp of the game. Not sure how you're not able to get any of my statements in the quotes you posted.

 

[Critical Gaming]

Kelmo does this all the time. He's a troll and an ex stratics mod. He's also a Siege player that wears 17 LRC 1 MR armor pieces with no other mods and thinks he has valid input on in-depth PvP discussions.

 

[drcossack]

another one of them doesn't even keep a hand open for chugging potions

That was a very brief period on LS when I ran Inscribe. I was tired of running out of mana, even with the extra mana regen, so I fixed that little hole.

I know we've fought fairly recently, and I didn't have a spellbook equipped. Of course, maybe you didn't notice that because of...reasons.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Man, they just don't understand. The only mage that is really worth playing these days is a parry mage. Now they want to reduce SDI for parry mages to 15, AND nerf supernovas.

2 days ago the SDI for parry mages would have been 25 SDI. At current it is 20SDI.

 

[Critical Gaming]

I know we've fought fairly recently, and I didn't have a spellbook equipped. Of course, maybe you didn't notice that because of...reasons.

What specifically are you implying?

 

[PaithanTheElf]

@drcossack and @CovenantX

Why do you guys keep saying novas are unavoidable? It is mind boggling. You need to be within 4/5 tiles for them to go off. Therefore, they are very avoidable. I have had people near red lined and they just ran away and I could not catch up to blow the nova and finish them off as they healed up to full via pots/bandaids.

If someone can get out of the small range it has- that is avoiding it. And it is not hard to get out of range and stay out of range. Period.

I am not saying I don't think Novas could use a tweak. I rather liked chads idea of base 10 damage (I would have gone with 12). And then 1 point for every 10 alchemy.

 

[Revan123]

Do you know how arguing works? If not, please read up on it. I backed up my argument (abridged version from yesterday re-posted below) with #s and reasons. Nobody who's for Novas has done the same - "they're fine as they are" isn't valid when there's ample evidence to the contrary, and "we need them to kill people" doesn't help your argument either.

Cossack, you keep saying there's ample evidence to the contrary, but you have yet to give anything that would qualify as "evidence" in favor of the nerf, that people against the nerf have not. You said, "there's plenty of evidence." What is your evidence? That it does substantial damage, instantly? Well other people have already countered that argument by pointing out that other skills provide other abilities that are also powerful. I myself have made the argument that it is not over-powered because templates these days have so much defensive abilities, and Supernovas are a great way of balancing the "Rock, Scissors, Paper" aspect of template x verses template y. What has your argument for that been?

I've used broken/OP **** in various games through the years. Is it fun? Yeah, for a while. Then I get bored with it. But it's easy to recognize when something's broken/OP. what about any of my anti-Nova statements is incorrect? Here they are again:

You just accused people of not showing any evidence for their arguments, and then you went on to say that it's easy to recognize when something is broken/OP... That's your evidence? The fact that you can easily recognize it? And not for nothing, aren't you making the claim that Supernova's are over-powered? Isn't the "burden of proof" on you? Our arguments are only to counter your claim that Supernovas are not over-powered.

I've seen all 3 of those on multiple occasions, and that was BEFORE I decided to use them on Test, which was simply to see their damage with various modifiers.

I've been in vent with you. I mean, sure, half the time I'd just go in to the afk channel when you came in, and the rest of the time I'd just stay silent until you left, but when I actually felt like talking, you clearly have a decent grasp of the game. Not sure how you're not able to get any of my statements in the quotes you posted.

Okay, well let me sum it up for you. What is the criteria upon which you determine whether or not something is "overpowered/broken?" If something is powerful, does that mean it is automatically "overpowered/broken"? Should we nerf parry, because it's powerful against dexxers? Should we nerf armor ignore because it does more damage than all of the other shots? No, it's about trade-offs, and you need to look at the big picture. Are supernovas powerful? Yes. But EVERYONE can use them. What makes supernovas overpowered?

When you look at the big picture, you will see that templates are incredibly defensive now a days. Archers not only have healing and potions but bushido heals as well. Mages not only have potions and parrying, but healing as well. Melee Dexxers have bushido, parry, and usually a whole bunch of other defensive skills. When you look at the big picture, you will see that supernovas help EVERYONE (not just people with alchemy) overcome the overly defensiveness and the template miss-matches of today's game.