SUPERNOVA NERF POLL

[cazador]

The delay is stupid! This is NOT an issue and never has been. The few times you get caught off guard and die to a Nova is so far and few. Yes when your dismount ganked and end up dying to it. Well I mean in reality, it was the inevitable anyways. Why does everyone try and nerf absolutely everything they don't understand. They are expensive to stock, have a long timer, and unless you time the exact they aren't even an issue. Never mind the fact that without Alchemy they are almost pointless to carry around. The people I see complaining i.e. Cossack..don't even use potions tbh until maybe recently. Dude runs around with a shield and Mage book. Dies a lot and clearly doesn't understand many PvP aspects. We aren't complaining about Explosion pots..why? Not because they aren't strong when used correctly. Go play Yomato during prime time..the Asian base players play those hybrid DS Mages with conflags/explosion/Novas to a T!


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[Revan123]

Lol you still claim that as a duel win, when I was chatting with people at the gate you and attacked me. I didn't even try to heal myself or attack back and basically let you kill me. Doesn't get anymore EGO than that. Grow up already its a game that your just another crutch player in cause your just not good enough and instead of getting better you resort to insults like a child

Are you really lying about it now? Lol. That's not how it played out at all and you know it. You were **** talking me in the general chat (like you normally do) when I told you that you were so bad that I would beat you naked in a duel. You said I couldn't, so I challenged you. You accepted, and we dueled. There was no chatting with friends lmao. I had a bunch of friends watching us duel, but there was no talking. You were trying desperately to kill me, and you ended up dying. Everyone made fun of you for it afterwords. The end.

Also I never said I didn't die, I said never solo to any of the EGO players. I get ganked a lot, that usually happens when others cant compete.

You did, again, to me naked, in a duel, and tons of people were there on GL to witness it. If you've deluded yourself into forgetting this, I will gladly do it again.

 

[Merlin]

Folks -

If you want to talk trash about PVP and who has beat who, and who sucks and so forth... take it to the dedicated PVP threads we have stickied in each Shard forum.

Otherwise, it doesn't belong here in UHall on a thread talking about Supernova tactics. This is a public warning to please stop this ASAP before we need to start issuing infractions.

Proceed with caution..

 

[CovenantX]

Also I never said I didn't die, I said never solo to any of the EGO players. I get ganked a lot, that usually happens when others cant compete.

Already debunked your math regarding hp/sec in comparison and you also stated yourself no one is spamming on heal pot timer. So....



How did trigger/g-heal work for you here?

It doesn't always (never said it always did? re-read what I said, you quoted it, what's hard to understand?)... but trigger is delayed, is it not?
and if it hadn't worked, you wouldn't be able to use it for 5mins, and you would have to recast it... (the point) novas = more damage, shorter cooldown, not delayed... what exactly, is not sinking in?

 

[Great DC]

@CovenantX and I have done but be civil on here explaining multiple reasons why Nova is over-powered. We've even explained exactly how game mechanics really work in UO. All we are getting back is "you suck, just cause you don't use them doesn't mean theyre OP, I need them to kill people, your not a top tier pvper". Then attacked upon by these clowns we retort with more Factual information and then they resume with attacks cause theyre ego driven idiots and need easy button pvp to stay so they can compete. Without some kind of Nova change pvp will completely die out, its breathing on life support now.

 

[Aeyko]

@CovenantX and I have done but be civil on here explaining multiple reasons why Nova is over-powered. We've even explained exactly how game mechanics really work in UO. All we are getting back is "you suck, just cause you don't use them doesn't mean theyre OP, I need them to kill people, your not a top tier pvper". Then attacked upon by these clowns we retort with more Factual information and then they resume with attacks cause theyre ego driven idiots and need easy button pvp to stay so they can compete. Without some kind of Nova change pvp will completely die out, its breathing on life support now.

It's only "breathing on life support" now to your level of play. The higher level pvpers are playing just fine with no issues. Even the mid level guys on Atl do not seem to have an issue with it... And then there's you. Nova's simply need a dmg tweak and dmg amplifier via alchemy. Very simple fix, end of story.

 

[Great DC]

It's only "breathing on life support" now to your level of play. The higher level pvpers are playing just fine with no issues. Even the mid level guys on Atl do not seem to have an issue with it... And then there's you. Nova's simply need a dmg tweak and dmg amplifier via alchemy. Very simple fix, end of story.

See another example of an attack on someone for just posting their position on a problem in the game. Its too easy anymore

 

[Aeyko]

See another example of an attack on someone for just posting their position on a problem in the game. Its too easy anymore

It's not an attack. I'm not even saying it personally. I'm stating a fact that there are levels to pvp. You're not a higher level. It's that simple. You do not utilize your entire template to your advantage nor do you understand the full mechanics behind creating a functional template. Personal attack, nope. Not at all. Stating a fact. If you walked into IBM and started lecturing them on how to run their manufacturing process I'm sure they would politely tell you that you're not qualified to do so. That is what I am telling you here, you're not qualified to understand these changes.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

@CovenantX and I have done but be civil on here explaining multiple reasons why Nova is over-powered. We've even explained exactly how game mechanics really work in UO. All we are getting back is "you suck, just cause you don't use them doesn't mean theyre OP, I need them to kill people, your not a top tier pvper". Then attacked upon by these clowns we retort with more Factual information and then they resume with attacks cause theyre ego driven idiots and need easy button pvp to stay so they can compete. Without some kind of Nova change pvp will completely die out, its breathing on life support now.

I'd bet my bottom dollar that everyone in here that I consider above your pvp level.. could beat you without novas WHILE you use novas. You just never adapted. And then cry.

When people give valid reasons to novas you just put your hands over your ears and repeat the same non sense. The majority of stratics users (even with the non pvpers acting in favor of the potion nerf) have spoken. Results are shown above. Thank you, come again.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

It doesn't always (never said it always did? re-read what I said, you quoted it, what's hard to understand?)... but trigger is delayed, is it not?
and if it hadn't worked, you wouldn't be able to use it for 5mins, and you would have to recast it... (the point) novas = more damage, shorter cooldown, not delayed... what exactly, is not sinking in?

In that screen shot would 4 more dmg made a difference? Nope, still dead. Would the instant dmg vs the ranged/delayed dmg tick made a difference? Nope, still dead. Would the area effected and/or distance made a difference? Nope, still dead.

And with a hypothetical miss would a 2 min timer have made a difference opposed to a 5 minute timer/re-cast? Nope, you would have survived. So I think the appropriate direction of this conversation is having you answer, 'what's not sinking in' because you're constantly talking about how easy this game is and how it's not hard to react to trigger. In that screen shot there is no reaction attempt made at all. So it must not be as simple as you are making it sound, right?

I think it was just poor, 'positioning'....

 

[CovenantX]

In that screen shot there is no reaction attempt made at all. So it must not be as simple as you are making it sound, right?

I think it was just poor, 'positioning'....

Dunno man, you're saying the only way to "React" to a supernova is to avoid being close while 18% or lower HP, in which case, if a nova is used. it'd be too late to react... (pointed out already... is many times not enough?)
otherwise, why would one use the nova if you weren't close enough to them? and there's nothing stopping one from stacking novas onto any attack.... (novas are OP).

fyi, you can cast mini heal on yourself once healing for 11-14 and get a 2nd one up before the bombard damage is done.... not sure how else I can point out to you that bombard isn't instant damage...

Edit: that character uses a shield because of no gove-buff for the -1fc mage weapon in hand.. point being a heal potions would out-heal bombard damage alone and then some. (even after the bombard as been used.... obviously, before the damage is done. (not sure why I have to explain this, over and over)

 

[elster]

For people saying that everyone is using alchemy... I just want to repost this: This is data I pulled for every character on atlantic on myuo. I generated every possible 3 character string to search and find all characters. I imported them into elasticsearch and ran some analysis on the data. 13% of characters that have at least one murder count, no non pvp skill above 0, and their total real skills add up to 720 are using alchemy. Only 13%.

(proof here: GitHub - autorock/myuo_analysis: Analysis on data from myuo)

Ugh woke up in the middle of the night with an idea on getting a more accurate representation of skills PVPers use given the data we have. Adding murder counts to the equation. And total skill points a player has. (if they have at least one murder count, they have PVPd before, and anyone with less than 720 skill points probably should be filtered out)

Atlantic shard only.

Filtered out from analysis:
- All characters that have any non-pvp skill above 0. (Non PVP skills were mentioned above)
- All characters that haven't logged on in more than 30 days (from the last time myuo was updated).
- All characters that have less than 1 murder count (proof of at least one PVP encounter)
- All characters that have less than 720 total skill points (filter out any characters that may just be "holding skills")

TOTAL CHARACTERS ANALYZED: 661
resisting_spells:

total: 438
percentage: 66.26%​

evaluating_intelligence:

total: 283
percentage: 42.81%​

magery:

total: 282
percentage: 42.66%​

tactics:

total: 232
percentage: 35.1%​

anatomy:

total: 192
percentage: 29.05%​

archery:

total: 174
percentage: 26.32%​

parry:

total: 168
percentage: 25.42%​

hiding:

total: 140
percentage: 21.18%​

bushido:

total: 114
percentage: 17.25%​

swordmanship:

total: 107
percentage: 16.19%​

ninjitsu:

total: 104
percentage: 15.73%​

meditation:

total: 98
percentage: 14.83%​

healing:

total: 98
percentage: 14.83%​

necromancy:

total: 97
percentage: 14.67%​

focus:

total: 93
percentage: 14.07%​

wrestling:

total: 92
percentage: 13.92%​

spirit_speak:

total: 87
percentage: 13.16%​

alchemy:

total: 86
percentage: 13.01%​

mysticism:

total: 79
percentage: 11.95%​

fencing:

total: 74
percentage: 11.2%​

inscription:

total: 65
percentage: 9.83%​

spellweaving:

total: 48
percentage: 7.26%​

stealth:

total: 47
percentage: 7.11%​

poisoning:

total: 33
percentage: 4.99%​

throwing:

total: 30
percentage: 4.54%​

chivalry:

total: 29
percentage: 4.39%​

animal_lore:

total: 22
percentage: 3.33%​

animal_taming:

total: 19
percentage: 2.87%​

mace_fighting:

total: 16
percentage: 2.42%​

detect_hidden:

total: 6
percentage: 0.91%​

tracking:

total: 5
percentage: 0.76%​

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Dunno man, you're saying the only way to "React" to a supernova is to avoid being close while 18% or lower HP, in which case, if a nova is used. it'd be too late to react... (pointed out already... is many times not enough?)
otherwise, why would one use the nova if you weren't close enough to them? and there's nothing stopping one from stacking novas onto any attack.... (novas are OP).

fyi, you can cast mini heal on yourself once healing for 11-14 and get a 2nd one up before the bombard damage is done.... not sure how else I can point out to you that bombard isn't instant damage...

Edit: that character uses a shield because of no gove-buff for the -1fc mage weapon in hand.. point being a heal potions would out-heal bombard damage alone and then some. (even after the bombard as been used.... obviously, before the damage is done. (not sure why I have to explain this, over and over)

You need to explain it because you didn't do anything you said and I support that with a screen shot for proof. So if all of what you are saying is true, why didn't you do it? Maybe because you couldn't react fast enough to my timing? That template also has 100 alchemy and 80EP so I could have used a nova, but I chose not to. Weird, right? If I felt a nova was SO much better, maybe I should have used it? I mean if I felt like you were going to escape my trigger that would make sense.

You can sit here and explain hypothetical situations, you can do tests with people that prove what you say is correct, but when you engage in a situation that involves human error and reaction your entire argument is pointless. Why? Just look at the screen shot.

 

[CovenantX]

You can sit here and explain hypothetical situations, you can do tests with people that prove what you say is correct.

one death proves nothing.

You can in fact mini heal yourself before the damage is done.. heal potion even easier. I don't need to test it to tell you that.

but I gotta know, am I like the only person in UO that doesn't screenshot every kill? lol (I know steam has an option to do it) but It's pretty funny all these people pulling out random shots of getting the odd-ball kill...

What was your characters name again? was it two in the pink?

 

[Revan123]

Dunno man, you're saying the only way to "React" to a supernova is to avoid being close while 18% or lower HP, in which case, if a nova is used. it'd be too late to react... (pointed out already... is many times not enough?)
otherwise, why would one use the nova if you weren't close enough to them? and there's nothing stopping one from stacking novas onto any attack.... (novas are OP).

Okay Covenant, allow me to explain this in a way that I think the people who think novas aren't avoidable will understand.

Have you ever played WoW? Or any MMO with raid bosses? Just imagine there's a boss fight, right? And this boss lets off this huge explosion every time he gets to 30% life. Now this "explosion" is limited to a certain amount of distance around him, BUT it's INSTANT! And! It does a ton of damage! You got that right? The only way to avoid this huge explosion, is to STAY AWAY from the Boss- OUT OF HIS AOE range.

Okay, now you're fighting the boss. He's down to 32% life. You KNOW that he lets this explosion off at 30%. Here's your list of options:

Do you

A. run away from the boss and avoid the explosion
or
B. stand there and let the explosion hit you,

and then go on that MMO's forums to make the excuse that it's "INSTANT" - and to complain that the explosion is overpowered because it is instant; and when people try to explain to you that all you need to do is position yourself better, your response is to continuously argue that the explosion is completely unavoidable because "IT'S INSTANT"...?

 

[Revan123]

Okay, now let's relate this a little closer to UO. Let's imagine now, that INSTEAD of the boss making this big explosion every time HE is at 30% hp, let's imagine that he makes it every time YOU are at or around 30% HP. You don't know specifically when he's going to do it, but you know he usually does it sometime after your HP gets below 30%. Again, similar scenario. You're fighting the boss. Your HP starts to get close to 30%.

Do you

A. run away from the boss and avoid the explosion
or
B. stand there and let the explosion hit you? (and die)

 

[CovenantX]

Do you

A. run away from the boss and avoid the explosion
or
B. stand there and let the explosion hit you? (and die)

... I'd do B..... (and die) =D
Do you, use novas when no one is close enough for you to hit with it? this is the only time it can miss btw... (lol)

 

[CovenantX]

... I'd do B..... (and die) =D
Do you, use novas when no one is close enough for you to hit with it? this is the only time it can miss btw... (lol)

It seems interesting that... "trap-boxes" go off so fast (that reaction time tho...), yet these guys can't use a nova while within 5-tile range of someone.. How exactly can you explain that?
I mean, are you dealing with a latency issues or something? I can see tunnel-vision once in a while maybe...

Who is going to waste a nova because "X" target isn't in range? is it really that hard to be in range of someone when you literally only need to "use item type"...
I mean, you make it sound like it's hard to holy-light (H-L is cast-able on the move btw) someone because the range of holy-light is shorter distance than nova...

I think your "positioning" isn't very good if you're not close enough to your target when you use a nova (obviously because it's instant)... How exactly would it be the other way around?

OOOOH I see, you must be literally double clicking your potion, so people aren't in range by time you get your mouse over it?

Have you ever played WoW? Or any MMO with raid bosses?

I'm well aware, remember... I was playing WoW and/or Diablo3... while you were asking me if there was any pvp on LS in vent? Pvp was dead on LS around when Mooselisted left, quit, w/e....
which was when the guild war we had going ended also being around when holyfist got "fixed".

(I'm referring to Novas on "Live" shards btw) not how they work on TC1... if that is causing the confusion, I apologize, if not... there's no helping you.

 

[cazador]

.Do you, use novas when no one is close enough for you to hit with it? (lol)

No because UO has become stupid easy... with Devs blessing basically

If inrange enemy 3


...balance! Not nerf!



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[Critical Gaming]

Yea his opinion is insta proc is OP. At this point I need proof that it's OP. Video proof that shows it is fact and not opinion.

 

[Revan123]

I'm reading though these changes right now, and I can't believe what I'm reading. These morons not only do not understand pvp game mechanics, but they aren't even literate. Like wtf does this mean?

• PvM only: Initial Spell Plague damage is now modified by SDI etc. Removed baked in bonus damage from Intelligence and 15% SDI from Spell Plague damage calculation.

Do they even proof read?

• We would like to let you where we currently stand in the process.

 

[MalagAste]

I'm reading though these changes right now, and I can't believe what I'm reading. These morons not only do not understand pvp game mechanics, but they aren't even literate. Like wtf does this mean?

• PvM only: Initial Spell Plague damage is now modified by SDI etc. Removed baked in bonus damage from Intelligence and 15% SDI from Spell Plague damage calculation.

Do they even proof read?

• We would like to let you where we currently stand in the process.

No they are incapable of it apparently... I'm fairly sure they don't use basic spellcheck or just read what they typed before posting. Highly unprofessional if you ask me. Not that I have perfect grammar, spelling or punctuation... but I'm not posting on an official public game forum as a professional staff member either...

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Yea his opinion is insta proc is OP. At this point I need proof that it's OP. Video proof that shows it is fact and not opinion.

He did not sell me on instant being OP either.

 

[Revan123]

And now they're implementing all of the changes that they should've implemented 3 years ago. Look at some of these changes:

• Focus Spec no longer modifies the SDI cap (Wtf?.......?)
• Harcore nerfs to Swing Speed (3 years too late. Now everyone's templates are so powerful defensively, this change is just going to make it impossible to kill good players on archers. Back to pre-imbuing I guess.)
  
• Splintering Weapon no longer works with Disarm (3 years too late)
  
• Hit chance nerf to moving shot + physical damage. This is such a dumb change. So let's reduce the damage with elemental weapons AND reduce the chance to hit more than it already is, so that most of the time Archers won't be able to kill anyone, but EVERY NOW AND THEN they'll get a ******** bout of RNG and get a kill. I thought we wanted to eliminate ******** episodes of RNG?
• More changes to hail storm? (Who gives a **** at this point.)
• Increased special move Block duration from 3 to 6 seconds (YAY! I FK'ING LOVE BLOCK! no, not really. block sucks)
  
• Supernova 1 second delay (dumbest **** I've ever seen, and apparently most people agree.)
• Base SDI cap raised to 20 (Wow... They actually did something right! Too bad they fk'ed up the game in just about every other way possible).

It seems to me like they thought they'd nerf offensive abilities a lot, which would've been sweet 3 years ago when everything was offensively overpowered to fk; but now they're coming out with these changes AFTER everyone has made super defensive templates with insane gear and skill inc. Now the game is just going to be super defensive. Looking at these changes, what did they fix? In what ways are they supposed to be making it better? One of the biggest problems with the game is the rock scissors paper aspect of it, and this doesn't really change that. As a matter of fact, it is only really getting worse.

 

[Critical Gaming]

I'm guessing they are eliminating focus spec, then? That's what it sounds like, and I like it. It's added complexity that doesn't play nice with the new 20SDI cap and nobody even knows wtf a focused mystic/necro do after the corpse fix.

Nova change is obviously stupid

I don't understand the 40 SSI thing. Can anyone explain that in a different way?

 

[OREOGL]

I'm guessing they are eliminating focus spec, then? That's what it sounds like, and I like it. It's added complexity that doesn't play nice with the new 20SDI cap and nobody even knows wtf a focused mystic/necro do after the corpse fix.

Nova change is obviously stupid

I don't understand the 40 SSI thing. Can anyone explain that in a different way?

Yeah, 40% of weapon base speed is new cap, or 1.25s, whichever is higher.

The swing increments round down to the swing increment.

So for a composite with a base speed of 4s is now 4x.4= 1.6 which rounds down to a swing cap of 1.5

 

[Critical Gaming]

Thanks Oreo I think that clicked for me.

So a normal bow @ 4.25 would be 4.25x.4 = 1.7 round down to 1.5, then Knuckleheads says 1.5 on a bow would be 45 swing @210, so no reason to run above 45 swing on the suit.

Then for a composite, you'd need no higher than 30 swing on a 210 suit to achieve 1.5.

Is that correct?

If so, that makes for slightly slower swings but now we can get extra props. 30 swing on a bow = 20 on jewels plus an ash enhance on the bow after it is fully imbued. Not bad. You could make some really nice bows with a property freed up.

 

[OREOGL]

Thanks Oreo I think that clicked for me.

So a normal bow @ 4.25 would be 4.25x.4 = 1.7 round down to 1.5, then Knuckleheads says 1.5 on a bow would be 45 swing @210, so no reason to run above 45 swing on the suit.

Then for a composite, you'd need no higher than 30 swing on a 210 suit to achieve 1.5.

Is that correct?

If so, that makes for slightly slower swings but now we can get extra props. 30 swing on a bow = 20 on jewels plus an ash enhance on the bow after it is fully imbued. Not bad. You could make some really nice bows with a property freed up.

Yeah, the stamina requirements don't change as far as I can tell.

Just can no longer reach 1.25s so no point investing in a 210 Stam suit.

So yeah, 150 Stam with a 4s base and 60 ssi will get you to 1.5s

(Or 210 Stam with 30 ssi. Though 60 ssi seems like it'd be a better route in my opinion.)

 

[DJ Diddles]

Yeah, the stamina requirements don't change as far as I can tell.

Just can no longer reach 1.25s so no point investing in a 210 Stam suit.

So yeah, 150 Stam with a 4s base and 60 ssi will get you to 1.5s

(Or 210 Stam with 30 ssi. Though 60 ssi seems like it'd be a better route in my opinion.)

I agree. Unless you've already got a suit built and are too lazy to change it, 210 suits are basically obsolete unless you're making a suit that with 100 DI/30 SSI without a weapon equipped, and then the 50/50/50 bows might make up for it. But for anyone making a new suit for an archer, 150/180 is unquestionably the way to go.