PvP Balancing Proposal 2018

[Learn Me]

I fully agree with the fish pies... but to say pvp is balanced when there's a small fraction of templates in play is laughable.
Sure, there are plenty of mage templates (just a coincidence they all include Parry).... if you're dexer, you're forced to play in groups, or you need 4/6 chivalry or something like smokebombs (ninja/hiding/stealth).... not to mention the constant running that makes the fight long a drawn out to where it's boring A F, instead of fun like it should be.

I'd also argue that something as rng based as dexxers shouldn't be "standardized" to be on par with mages. If you want to look at it through a 1v1 scope, I can pull videos of several dexxers killing the top mages on Atl purely because they hit 2-4 armor ignores where splinter proc'd on each. Several of these players were on parry characters. Now the dexxers have the same exact defensive capabilities with evasion, refinements, pies, confidence when running away and can easily just run from a mage anytime they are at 75% health and ensure they never die.

Now you're the mage that just got smacked with RNG, on a character with a cap of 30 dci, plus HLD in effect and you literally can't run because someone just did 160+ damage you couldn't move from. Cut parry chance in half or whatever you'd propose. How much more prevalent does it become that someone can literally just AI someone at 1.25 seconds and kill them? Now allow someone who's actually an above average player do that with novas, conflags, etc etc. We can theory talk about how you said splint disarm wasn't the main issue with splinter a few patches ago.

 

[Learn Me]

We can look at that scenario from a group pvp perspective as well. Lessen parry and evasion so more people can play LP ds'ers with 30% and 60% (with focus attack) splinter weapons throwing sticky darts and landing 50% of their swings. Sounds like fun being completely disabled from healing (note asking for changes to shuriken and dart timers) and not being able to move away from multiple dexxers. Maybe people begin playing archers again because they can hit enough to be effective in 1v1's? Sweet, now you're targeted by a yumi hitting double shots for 60-80 damage depending on debuffs. You can't blame parry as the end all be all reason for the state of pvp. Parry is a forced skill choice based on the things I've mentioned.

Also, credentials were called into play and Cossack says he doesn't pvp on atl but that doesn't devalue his opinions, but Covenant says there is no pvp on LS? So wondering where the experiences in pvp come from to base your opinions off of? We bring this stuff up because let's be honest, quality of pvp is a SEVERE drop off when you leave atlantic. You admit there's nothing on LS, we check GL frequently and can literally win fights 2v10+ because they just aren't experienced players there right now, our last trips west we had two entire guilds quit and the shards died.

I wouldn't trust a Ford mechanic on my Lambo just because they work on cars, you know?

 

[CovenantX]

I'd also argue that something as rng based as dexxers shouldn't be "standardized" to be on par with mages.

I agree, but they're not on par with mages. that's the problem.

Looking back at posts by Cetric & Paith, they mention that A dexer cannot compete with A parry-mage. That is the entire problem.
Could you imagine, if A Mage couldn't compete with A Dexer with Resisting spells?

Without quoting all of your posts, I'll just respond to some points you're trying to make.

I'm well aware that refinements are a culprit. I eluded to that when I said Fish pies wouldn't make a gamebreaking difference is refinements weren't factored, fish pies only work against one damage type, they're not something people typically use against "dexers".

I never said that the tactics reduction was going to add more dexers to the mix, I know it enabled people to play bokuto mages again. that's not the problem though, is it? No it's Parry. it always has been ever since powercreep (global loot) allowed Parry to be fully effective with very little to absolutely no sacrifice.

We can look at that scenario from a group pvp perspective as well. Lessen parry and evasion so more people can play LP ds'ers with 30% and 60% (with focus attack) splinter weapons throwing sticky darts and landing 50% of their swings. Sounds like fun being completely disabled from healing (note asking for changes to shuriken and dart timers) and not being able to move away from multiple dexxers. Maybe people begin playing archers again because they can hit enough to be effective in 1v1's? Sweet, now you're targeted by a yumi hitting double shots for 60-80 damage depending on debuffs. You can't blame parry as the end all be all reason for the state of pvp. Parry is a forced skill choice based on the things I've mentioned.

Also, credentials were called into play and Cossack says he doesn't pvp on atl but that doesn't devalue his opinions, but Covenant says there is no pvp on LS? So wondering where the experiences in pvp come from to base your opinions off of? We bring this stuff up because let's be honest, quality of pvp is a SEVERE drop off when you leave atlantic. You admit there's nothing on LS, we check GL frequently and can literally win fights 2v10+ because they just aren't experienced players there right now, our last trips west we had two entire guilds quit and the shards died.

I wouldn't trust a Ford mechanic on my Lambo just because they work on cars, you know?

Again, your scenario involves Multiple dexers against one Parry-mage... you're talking about balancing mages to fight Multiple dexers, and you seem to think that's how it should be done.
Darts & Shirukens, sure, they should have a reasonable Global cooldown, then again, ALL Consumables should.. Especially if they don't require a skill to use them.

Poisoning has problems with it, Parry is worse because it drives the meta very heavily towards mages, so people aren't talking about poisoning.... It was brought up many times during the combat changes thread though. The problem with the Devs accepting suggestions, is when they do, they often leave out other parts of a suggestion that makes it work... obviously causing imbalances.

I said the experience comes from Atl, among other shards (when there used to be pvp on other shards =/).... Cossack hasn't played UO in months, at least that I know of. other than him being an inactive alliance member, I have nothing to do with him. so I'm not sure what you're getting at with that comment.

I don't disagree with the severe drop-off if you leave atlantic.... there's really not enough pvp just about anywhere else... who said otherwise?

 

[Learn Me]

Also, when I got up from the computer I realized my last comment could be taken wrong. It wasn't a dig on your personal play level, just saying experiences dictate our opinions. My toon on GL has 640 skill points, all reforged items, no EP and vvv artis with a mage wep and no parry. It's more than enough for any fight on that shard I've been a part of.

That's more what I was getting at.

 

[Learn Me]

I agree, but they're not on par with mages. that's the problem.

Looking back at posts by Cetric & Paith, they mention that A dexer cannot compete with A parry-mage. That is the entire problem.
Could you imagine, if A Mage couldn't compete with A Dexer with Resisting spells?

Without quoting all of your posts, I'll just respond to some points you're trying to make.

I'm well aware that refinements are a culprit. I eluded to that when I said Fish pies wouldn't make a gamebreaking difference is refinements weren't factored, fish pies only work against one damage type, they're not something people typically use against "dexers".

I never said that the tactics reduction was going to add more dexers to the mix, I know it enabled people to play bokuto mages again. that's not the problem though, is it? No it's Parry. it always has been ever since powercreep (global loot) allowed Parry to be fully effective with very little to absolutely no sacrifice.



Again, your scenario involves Multiple dexers against one Parry-mage... you're talking about balancing mages to fight Multiple dexers, and you seem to think that's how it should be done.
Darts & Shirukens, sure, they should have a reasonable Global cooldown, then again, ALL Consumables should.. Especially if they don't require a skill to use them.

Poisoning has problems with it, Parry is worse because it drives the meta very heavily towards mages, so people aren't talking about poisoning.... It was brought up many times during the combat changes thread though. The problem with the Devs accepting suggestions, is when they do, they often leave out other parts of a suggestion that makes it work... obviously causing imbalances.

I said the experience comes from Atl, among other shards (when there used to be pvp on other shards =/).... Cossack hasn't played UO in months, at least that I know of. other than him being an inactive alliance member, I have nothing to do with him. so I'm not sure what you're getting at with that comment.

I don't disagree with the severe drop-off if you leave atlantic.... there's really not enough pvp just about anywhere else... who said otherwise?

My scenarios were based on group pvp, not necessarily a mage vs multiple dexxers. For a long time against ! on atl, we'd all be on parry mages of some sort and still get ripped apart by archers. I'm suggesting when you balance dexxers to be on par with mages, they become overpowered in group pvp. The ability to deal massive damage while taking damage, healing while not stopping, etc...if you up their hit chance by lowering parry chance, then suddenly these templates in conjunction with each other become overpowered in group play. Dexxers can completely immobilize and keep other mages from healing each other and there is nothing you can do about it.

Leet and trev were very good about this. Splinter would go off, someone spams dp arrows, and someone is putting out damage. When it connects, your crosshealers become basically useless because they can't out heal the damage even if you manage to not be mortaled or dp'd. They weren't even spamming shurikens or darts at the time.

I guess my question would be you nerf parry and then what? The rest solves itself? Or does my bok mage just swap out parry and bushido for anat and healing? Now I'm doing 35 damage ai's with 30% splinter at 1.25 seconds so my offense just went through the roof, I heal with bandies at 4 seconds (hurting a dexxers splinter proc's or healing myself for 50damage) while I have magery heals, AND it doesn't matter if you disarm me because of anat/eval. Can a dexxer suddenly kill me because I don't have parry...? On top of that I can easily add 20 more skill points to the template (seeing as my bok mage has the lowest skill inc of any of my templates by about 70 skill points). Now I can add poisoning on top of that. Point being, the game is so far gone with items and super skill point templates if you fix parry...is that truly the answer?

 

[CovenantX]

I guess my question would be you nerf parry and then what? The rest solves itself?

Nah, parry isn't the only problem, it's just one of the biggest problems. Dexers would be a more prominent part of pvp if parry was nerfed for mages.

You know, why don't you switch from Bushido & Parry to Healing & Anatomy now. A dexer won't suddenly kill you... (because mages are better than dexers) but you won't stay on offense unless 50/50 RNG sways your way, the dexer only needs to hit 50% of the time to prevent most full combos from going off. A dexer will not suddenly kill you if you don't have parry, that's a main point.... Why do you bother saying things like Dexers force mages to play with parry?.... the only way that has ANY truth to it, is if you're talking about multiple dexers vs one guy with parry.... in that situation it's actually believable, but it's still wrong if you're expecting any reasonable balance to come from it.

If parry only had say a 20% chance to block, you'd still get an average of 60% of your 4th circle (anything lower is fast enough to cast between 1.25s attacks for the most part) or higher spells off against a single dexer.

The game's too far gone, so don't bother with any balancing? Yep, that's the answer alright.

Items with as many properties as they have now, allowing people to build suits reaching caps in more of the properties available than there are properties that actually make a difference... without sacrificing anything for the added benefit of Parry. That's precisely why the nerfs need to be targeted specifically at templates that are stronger than all others that utilize some of the same skills. If you nerf parry across the board, Dexers wouldn't use parry either (although that would be better than how it is now), I'm not aiming for parry to become useless though, it needs to be toned down for mage-templates to make pvp more competitive between a dexer & a mage.

 

[blackwell]

So from what I've read so far;

Everyone should be able to be hit the majority of time (people complaining about wrestle/parry, bush/parry, mage wep/parry)
Nerf Shatter pots ( So people dont have to restock at yew gate as much)
Fish Pies broke pvp
Armor refinement is broken.
Everyone should equal access to legendary items (UO socialism)
Nerf Armor refinement.


Ok, first off splinter is fine the way it is. Mages and dexers benefit equally, splint on a mage wep is not broken.
To any dexer complaining about fighting a mage or dexer that has parry, HLD is in game for a reason... No one is missing 75% of swings, assuming you're 120 wep skill and 45 hci.
Evasion is a shell of what is used to be, and is fine how it is.
Death Strike is fine the way it is, its almost under powered due to the fact you have to invest 340 skill points to do 50 damage.


My only suggestion to improve is pvp is take the tactics requirement completely away for specials, this will benefit every type of char, and allow more unique templates.

 

[drcossack]

Also, credentials were called into play and Cossack says he doesn't pvp on atl but that doesn't devalue his opinions, but Covenant says there is no pvp on LS? So wondering where the experiences in pvp come from to base your opinions off of? We bring this stuff up because let's be honest, quality of pvp is a SEVERE drop off when you leave atlantic. You admit there's nothing on LS, we check GL frequently and can literally win fights 2v10+ because they just aren't experienced players there right now, our last trips west we had two entire guilds quit and the shards died.

You're not entirely wrong - by my own admission, I haven't been playing UO (been playing various console games over the past few months, or FF14); I think the last few times I did any pvp was at spawns? The templates you fight at a champ spawn are completely different from what you'll see at Yew Gate (where I personally hate playing, and always have - if I'm at the Gate, it's because there's no pvp anywhere else.)

I guess my question would be you nerf parry and then what? The rest solves itself? Or does my bok mage just swap out parry and bushido for anat and healing? Now I'm doing 35 damage ai's with 30% splinter at 1.25 seconds so my offense just went through the roof, I heal with bandies at 4 seconds (hurting a dexxers splinter proc's or healing myself for 50damage) while I have magery heals, AND it doesn't matter if you disarm me because of anat/eval. Can a dexxer suddenly kill me because I don't have parry...? On top of that I can easily add 20 more skill points to the template (seeing as my bok mage has the lowest skill inc of any of my templates by about 70 skill points). Now I can add poisoning on top of that. Point being, the game is so far gone with items and super skill point templates if you fix parry...is that truly the answer?

the powercreep is an entirely different issue, and, unfortunately, it's one that can't be solved - between gear essentially lasting forever, large amounts of insanely powerful corpse loot, and whatever else, the devs goofed big time on that. Sure, powercreep is inevitable, but I think the devs took it from 0 to 100 far too quickly, as I said earlier in the thread. Regardless, that powercreep is part of the problem: When Publish 25 added the 80 dex requirement, EVERYONE that played a Parry Mage prior to that stopped doing so, because suits from that time didn't have the ability to get a mage to 80 dex (which they can now do, extremely easily.) @CovenantX (or anyone else), correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure imbuing on its own didn't allow for parry mages either? Reforging and Global Loot were what allowed parry mages to truly become so widespread.

I can't say if nerfing parry is the answer, but if it's so commonly used, it's because of how good it is, especially in conjunction with other skills like Bushido. A Bushido/Parry Mage is insanely hard to kill, which you'd agree with. Increasing the power of offense isn't necessarily the answer either, though - if you rebalance "hyper-defense" by increasing the power of offense & slightly nerfing the ultra-defensive template (say by reducing the block chance of parry), what will happen as a result? I can't say for certain how the pvp meta will change, but there is one certainty: whatever's at the top of the food chain after Parry changes will get nerfed in favor of (insert new dominant template here) and we're right back where we started: a never-ending cycle of nerfs and buffs to skills & various templates.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

You were on an Anatomy/Healing Parry-mage so, that's a group template now huh? haha, you never cease to disappoint me... what makes it a group template, Magery? LOL *face-palms like a f***ing octopus* oh wait.... at the time, your "group effort" was *Curse*, watch 2-3 archers moving shot people down... didn't Virem post a video about that?

You'd have to kill me a first time for me to get killed again, btw... you left during our first fight and never showed up for the 2nd. so There's that.... but you fail to realize it's got nothing to do with this discussion. I understand completely that your ego won't let it go and at the same time, we need some amusement. I'll just leave it at that.
.

Yes. Healing, parry, anat are all skills to live longer in a group. You give offense up for that (1v1 temps). I am not sure how you don't get that because it is a very simple concept.

I have dropped you on your lance concuss gurads char multiple times, btw. lol. But i'd be happy to drop you on a mage as well. Lemme know when ya want to get that fight goin.

 

[drcossack]

Yes. Healing, parry, anat are all skills to live longer in a group. You give offense up for that (1v1 temps). I am not sure how you don't get that because it is a very simple concept.

What offense do you give up though? Inscribe? With the amount of skill point jewelry you can still fit Inscribe on a character. Alchemy? You can fit that too, for the same reasons. SDI? You lose 1-2 points of damage. That's not even worth taking into consideration.

 

[CovenantX]

Yes. Healing, parry, anat are all skills to live longer in a group. You give offense up for that (1v1 temps). I am not sure how you don't get that because it is a very simple concept.

I have dropped you on your lance concuss gurads char multiple times, btw. lol. But i'd be happy to drop you on a mage as well. Lemme know when ya want to get that fight goin.

you give up 5% SDI, and some med-ability. but with refined armor ,bandages & potions (you would have died very fast if not for both of those)just as you have back when we fought on LS, isn't that right Minkwolf?

To this day, my Gurads has literally only died one vs one to Virem. So, why would you lie about this? I know it wasn't my guildie (who is also gurads), because he's still in my guild and he hasn't logged in since june in 2016. You didn't even kill me one vs one when we both used our "imbued" plate suits... lol gtfo scrub

I honestly haven't really played Gurads since the pet revamp came out, I've been in the process of re-building his suit to add ninjitsu to him and them jewels are elusive to me. he's been broken for over a year.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

What offense do you give up though? Inscribe? With the amount of skill point jewelry you can still fit Inscribe on a character. Alchemy? You can fit that too, for the same reasons. SDI? You lose 1-2 points of damage. That's not even worth taking into consideration.

Wep skill specials, poison, alchemy... take your pick. What a dumb comment. Just shows how terrible you are. lol

 

[PaithanTheElf]

you give up 5% SDI, and some med-ability. but with refined armor ,bandages & potions (you would have died very fast if not for both of those)just as you have back when we fought on LS, isn't that right Minkwolf?

To this day, my Gurads has literally only died one vs one to Virem. So, why would you lie about this? I know it wasn't my guildie (who is also gurads), because he's still in my guild and he hasn't logged in since june in 2016. You didn't even kill me one vs one when we both used our "imbued" plate suits... lol gtfo scrub

I honestly haven't really played Gurads since the pet revamp came out, I've been in the process of re-building his suit to add ninjitsu to him and them jewels are elusive to me. he's been broken for over a year.

LoL. Weird now you are lying about your death. That's cool. And if you want to see a 1v1 temp on mages log in UO. I will show ya real quickly. Lemme know. Or keep avoiding.

 

[CovenantX]

LoL. Weird now you are lying about your death. That's cool. And if you want to see a 1v1 temp on mages log in UO. I will show ya real quickly. Lemme know. Or keep avoiding.

I have no reason to lie. I never said I was the best at UO. but I haven't died to you one vs one since like 2005-'06-ish. when you omen weakened yourself in a duel.

You're right though technically I did lie (an earlier post shows how), because that dude anyers (something like that) on TC1 killed me one vs one but it was largely due to me using a suit that required the FC1 buff that didn't exist on TC1 (no gov's there) at the time. Not a lie about what you're claiming though...

Virem is the only one to kill Gurads on a production shard one vs one.

 

[drcossack]

Wep skill specials, poison, alchemy... take your pick. What a dumb comment. Just shows how terrible you are. lol

Any of which you can fit on a character with the amount of skill point increase available. Next "Argument" please. And stop trying to derail the thread with insults and ****-talking.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

I have no reason to lie. I never said I was the best at UO. but I haven't died to you one vs one since like 2005-'06-ish. when you omen weakened yourself in a duel.

You're right though technically I did lie (an earlier post shows how), because that dude anyers (something like that) on TC1 killed me one vs one but it was largely due to me using a suit that required the FC1 buff that didn't exist on TC1 (no gov's there) at the time. Not a lie about what you're claiming though...

Virem is the only one to kill Gurads on a production shard one vs one.

Dude you are out of your mind. This is why i hate going back and forth with you. Here is an exact private message from you to me on November 3, 2016.

"Yes, you've killed Gurads once (one vs one+ a summoned deamon) I remember it pretty well.

I mostly run around solo, especially within the last year or so, because most of my guildies are playing other games, until UO gets off the Archers/Parry-mages era."

Go look or i can post a screenshot of the convo.

Want to keep saying you didn't die to me? You also died at least one other time to me 1v1 after that on that char. And you have never killed me. GG.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Any of which you can fit on a character with the amount of skill point increase available. Next "Argument" please. And stop trying to derail the thread with insults and ****-talking.

You just made my point. Thanks. You asked what did i give up for the healing/anat/parry. I then explained all the offense and you agreed and said next argument. lol.

 

[CovenantX]

Dude you are out of your mind. This is why i hate going back and forth with you. Here is an exact private message from you to me on November 3, 2016.

"Yes, you've killed Gurads once (one vs one+ a summoned deamon) I remember it pretty well.

I mostly run around solo, especially within the last year or so, because most of my guildies are playing other games, until UO gets off the Archers/Parry-mages era."

Go look or i can post a screenshot of the convo.

Want to keep saying you didn't die to me? You also died at least one other time to me 1v1 after that on that char. And you have never killed me. GG.

Feel free to post the convo, I'm not against it at all.

1v1 (healing/anatomy/parry-mage + daemon) vs omen/lancer pre-corpse buff, and that fight was a good 20 minutes at yew-gate several people jumped in against me and you both. that wasn't a real one vs one, but yes, I did say it was in the post. that would be the only time though. Hell I've fought a guy named Gurads on Atl like 4 months ago, no idea who he was, but I know it wasn't me or Iomega (my guildie).. My Gurads is in (HALP) guild btw. I always have my guild tag shown.

 

[drcossack]

You just made my point. Thanks. You asked what did i give up for the healing/anat/parry. I then explained all the offense and you agreed and said next argument. lol.

Except I didn't agree with you? You're acting like a parry mage has to sacrifice anything for offense. They do not. Because of skill point bonuses, a mage can run any one of alchemy, inscribe, or poisoning without any issue. Even a healing/anat/parry mage. If I'm not mistaken, you're GM Anat/80 healing, correct? If I'm correct on your template's skill distribution, you still have 60 skill points left over before skill point bonuses. That's more than enough wiggle room to fit one of alchemy/inscribe/poisoning.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Feel free to post the convo, I'm not against it at all.

1v1 (healing/anatomy/parry-mage + daemon) vs omen/lancer pre-corpse buff, and that fight was a good 20 minutes at yew-gate several people jumped in against me and you both. that wasn't a real one vs one, but yes, I did say it was in the post. that would be the only time though. Hell I've fought a guy named Gurads on Atl like 4 months ago, no idea who he was, but I know it wasn't me or Iomega (my guildie).. My Gurads is in (HALP) guild btw. I always have my guild tag shown.

When someone jumped in we moved the fight and i dismantled you. It happened again after that. It was only me vs only you. So,yes, that was a real 1v1. I wonder how many other 1v1s youve lost that you dont count on him. lol.

Point of which, i've dominated you multiple times 1v1 (you tried lying about it) and you've never killed me. Glad we got that cleared up.

Now if you want to fight me on a 1v1 char we can do that and i can show you how to play a character with offense. The fact that you lost to an anatomy mage when that was my only offense 1v1 speaks to how bad you are tbh. A healing parry mage would NEVER kill me 1v1.

Edit: Forgot you are Heres the love. Killed you on him 1v1 multiple times too.

 

[drcossack]

You must be really stupid. I was talking about my healing parry anat mage and what I gave up on that char. If you can't follow the offense you give up there is no helping you. And no you are not correct on how my healing mage was set up.

*sigh* are you deliberately this dense, or are you trolling? Ok, I was wrong on your template - I figured I would be. But that's not relevant. Even if yours is different:

120 Magery
120 Eval
120 Resist
120 Parry
100 Anat
80 Healing

660 skill points for a healing/anat parry mage, and that's the required skills for the template. With skill point jewelry (which is very prevalent), you can easily add another skill to that: Poisoning. Alchemy. Inscribe. Two of those have defensive applications (poisoning auto-cures and Alchemy giving more of a bonus to healing pots) as well. Please do go on about how much offense you're giving up by playing a hyper-defensive template.

 

[Learn Me]

Nah, parry isn't the only problem, it's just one of the biggest problems. Dexers would be a more prominent part of pvp if parry was nerfed for mages.

You know, why don't you switch from Bushido & Parry to Healing & Anatomy now. A dexer won't suddenly kill you... (because mages are better than dexers) but you won't stay on offense unless 50/50 RNG sways your way, the dexer only needs to hit 50% of the time to prevent most full combos from going off. A dexer will not suddenly kill you if you don't have parry, that's a main point.... Why do you bother saying things like Dexers force mages to play with parry?.... the only way that has ANY truth to it, is if you're talking about multiple dexers vs one guy with parry.... in that situation it's actually believable, but it's still wrong if you're expecting any reasonable balance to come from it.

If parry only had say a 20% chance to block, you'd still get an average of 60% of your 4th circle (anything lower is fast enough to cast between 1.25s attacks for the most part) or higher spells off against a single dexer.

The game's too far gone, so don't bother with any balancing? Yep, that's the answer alright.

Items with as many properties as they have now, allowing people to build suits reaching caps in more of the properties available than there are properties that actually make a difference... without sacrificing anything for the added benefit of Parry. That's precisely why the nerfs need to be targeted specifically at templates that are stronger than all others that utilize some of the same skills. If you nerf parry across the board, Dexers wouldn't use parry either (although that would be better than how it is now), I'm not aiming for parry to become useless though, it needs to be toned down for mage-templates to make pvp more competitive between a dexer & a mage.

I have admitted that my scope is through group pvp. You keep coming back to one mage against multiple dexxers.

You want to standardize mages and dexxers to have a completely even playing field. 50% of the time mages are on offense, 50% of the time the dexxer has offense (doesn't work since dexxers can put out immense damage while taking damage). Then you add in the rng factor like I described of 3 splint ai's going off in a row (which isn't uncommon with 30% splinter hit spell weapons) then it's not even close. They cannot be on a completely level playing field when rng can strike in favor for them like that, whereas a mage's rng is what? A casting focus? Not sure rng is netting a parry mage 140+ damage with a bleed walk.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

*sigh* are you deliberately this dense, or are you trolling? Ok, I was wrong on your template - I figured I would be. But that's not relevant. Even if yours is different:

120 Magery
120 Eval
120 Resist
120 Parry
100 Anat
80 Healing

660 skill points for a healing/anat parry mage, and that's the required skills for the template. With skill point jewelry (which is very prevalent), you can easily add another skill to that: Poisoning. Alchemy. Inscribe. Two of those have defensive applications (poisoning auto-cures and Alchemy giving more of a bonus to healing pots) as well. Please do go on about how much offense you're giving up by playing a hyper-defensive template.

I already did. And if you think you are correct. I implore you to play that template vs me on a template where I am on an offensive char. This is why i dont want to go back and forth with you. You are once again talking in theory. Hop on. Ill copy a healing mage suit to test if youd like and you can even add an extra skill to that list of your choosing. And we can see the offense that you are still giving up. Sound good?

 

[Learn Me]

You're not entirely wrong - by my own admission, I haven't been playing UO (been playing various console games over the past few months, or FF14); I think the last few times I did any pvp was at spawns? The templates you fight at a champ spawn are completely different from what you'll see at Yew Gate (where I personally hate playing, and always have - if I'm at the Gate, it's because there's no pvp anywhere else.)



the powercreep is an entirely different issue, and, unfortunately, it's one that can't be solved - between gear essentially lasting forever, large amounts of insanely powerful corpse loot, and whatever else, the devs goofed big time on that. Sure, powercreep is inevitable, but I think the devs took it from 0 to 100 far too quickly, as I said earlier in the thread. Regardless, that powercreep is part of the problem: When Publish 25 added the 80 dex requirement, EVERYONE that played a Parry Mage prior to that stopped doing so, because suits from that time didn't have the ability to get a mage to 80 dex (which they can now do, extremely easily.) @CovenantX (or anyone else), correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure imbuing on its own didn't allow for parry mages either? Reforging and Global Loot were what allowed parry mages to truly become so widespread.

I can't say if nerfing parry is the answer, but if it's so commonly used, it's because of how good it is, especially in conjunction with other skills like Bushido. A Bushido/Parry Mage is insanely hard to kill, which you'd agree with. Increasing the power of offense isn't necessarily the answer either, though - if you rebalance "hyper-defense" by increasing the power of offense & slightly nerfing the ultra-defensive template (say by reducing the block chance of parry), what will happen as a result? I can't say for certain how the pvp meta will change, but there is one certainty: whatever's at the top of the food chain after Parry changes will get nerfed in favor of (insert new dominant template here) and we're right back where we started: a never-ending cycle of nerfs and buffs to skills & various templates.

You are exactly right. You guys dislike gate pvp for one reason or another and prefer spawn pvp where, as you just said here, the templates are completely different. The one skill 99% of people don't run at a spawn fight...? Parry. So no issue there.

A bush parry mage is insanely hard to kill. So is a 4/6 chiv dexxer of any kind. So is a stealther that can smokebomb. My point is almost nobody is running a straight parry mage of any sorts because it lacks offensive power and it's just boring. That's why evasion needs to be looked at.

You two are suggesting you give up nothing for the choices we've made to run parry with or without evasion though. If we're refined, we give up medable armor. Once I run out of mana on my bok mage I literally cannot mini heal myself and it will take a full two minutes of not casting a spell to get full mana again. Seems like a pretty big trade off. If I run a parry anat mage as has been brought up several times in this thread, I give up massive amounts of offense. To suggest that 220 points tied into anatomy and parry don't take away from 220 points in necro/ss for better debuffs, 220 points in mystic for triggers and again more debuffs, or weapon skills for 35 damage ai's with splinter proc'ing is silly. 100 points into poisoning that I have to cast and anyone can instantly cure 9/10 is a waste. 100 points into alchemy for a conflag I can throw every..whatever it is 20-30 seconds and a nova with a 1 minute timer and a delay before it triggers making it way more difficult to use, 100 alchy is again not a useful placement of skill points.

People don't run straight parry mages and if they do, they have complete garbage offense. 1v1 is over with because of refinements, pies, splinter, max everything and ridiculous skill increase. Parry is just fine, evasion is the culprit.

 

[Learn Me]

*sigh* are you deliberately this dense, or are you trolling? Ok, I was wrong on your template - I figured I would be. But that's not relevant. Even if yours is different:

120 Magery
120 Eval
120 Resist
120 Parry
100 Anat
80 Healing

660 skill points for a healing/anat parry mage, and that's the required skills for the template. With skill point jewelry (which is very prevalent), you can easily add another skill to that: Poisoning. Alchemy. Inscribe. Two of those have defensive applications (poisoning auto-cures and Alchemy giving more of a bonus to healing pots) as well. Please do go on about how much offense you're giving up by playing a hyper-defensive template.

And to touch on this, you can't argue that a player who opts to place 300 skill points into a defensive skill set like anat healing and parry is the same as a player who does something like...
120mage
120eval
120resist
70fencing
100poisoning
110mystic
120focus

^ this is a purely offensive template. This is also a template that can't use refinements and will get hit by a dexxer more often that it will get missed. You have to be able to see how that is 7 skills for offense and the parry heal mage is magery and one supplemental skill you can get one nova for 20 damage out of every minute.

 

[Learn Me]

I guess what I'm fishing for here is ok, you drop parry chances to dissuade players from running it. Maybe dexxers become prominent enough that players in turn quit refining suits for higher resists because they don't want to lose dci. What is the best case scenario that comes from that? @CovenantX said himself that doesn't elevate dexxers to the mage level, it just bides them more time because they mage can't go offense nonstop? Now mages just pick up more offensive skills in its place. With the powercreep that's gone on, mages can swing max ai damage weapons with 30% splinter and instead of parry get skills like ninjitsu for 60% splinter hits?

Like I get it, you want to play a one tile dexxer that has every bit of defensive capabilities as a parry mage does right now. But go ahead and bring archer mages back into the fold hitting 50 damage armor pierces that then allow their next spells to hit for 25% more. Bottom line is items have forced the way things have been balanced now. Group spectrum or solo pvp is irrelevant.

When we were in a guild on LS, how many times did we say holy **** they have a lot of archers? How many times did people die to moving shot and there was nothing you could do about it? On atlantic, if you didn't have parry you were permanently target because one disarm and you were dead. One splinter disarm? Just stand still and take the mortal and four ai's before splinter wears off.
Point is, every game has it's support characters or roleplayer characters whatever you want to call them and every game has it's tanks. Why should uo AN MMO be any different and be based around individual pvp?

 

[CovenantX]

When someone jumped in we moved the fight and i dismantled you. It happened again after that. It was only me vs only you. So,yes, that was a real 1v1. I wonder how many other 1v1s youve lost that you dont count on him. lol.

Point of which, i've dominated you multiple times 1v1 (you tried lying about it) and you've never killed me. Glad we got that cleared up.

Now if you want to fight me on a 1v1 char we can do that and i can show you how to play a character with offense. The fact that you lost to an anatomy mage when that was my only offense 1v1 speaks to how bad you are tbh. A healing parry mage would NEVER kill me 1v1.

Edit: Forgot you are Heres the love. Killed you on him 1v1 multiple times too.

You're obviously giving yourself wayyyy too much credit. I haven't even played Here's the love since Focus spec was buffed, the suit was out-dated back then and it hasn't changed. I wouldn't deny losing on that template, it's a "group" template anyway... 15 sdi vs 30 SDI, the only heavy damage that template has is DS. It's almost as bad as losing one vs one mage-duel while you're in wraith form against another who is not.

I've died and killed many people on here's the love one vs one and in groups... Learn Me has beaten that template too? who cares, we were talking about Gurads... and the one instance you ran away from my alchy mage that I didn't need to chug anything on during our short fight, to switch to a DP character because your magery isn't as good as mine? lol no one cares about it.

 

[drcossack]

Point is, every game has it's support characters or roleplayer characters whatever you want to call them and every game has it's tanks. Why should uo AN MMO be any different and be based around individual pvp?

But that's the thing. Group dynamics shouldn't be factored into balancing - we're not asking for the game to go back to individual pvp (although it'd be nice - as you're well aware from playing with me in the past, I prefer 1v1's to group); as an example, take 3 Holy Fisters against a trio of 1-tile melee dexers. The Holy Fisters would win, simply because they can sync a target with 4/6 casting. 1v1, there's no guarantee the Holy Fister would win (that said, they probably would win 9/10 times.)

 

[PaithanTheElf]

You're obviously giving yourself wayyyy too much credit. I haven't even played Here's the love since Focus spec was buffed, the suit was out-dated back then and it hasn't changed. I wouldn't deny losing on that template, it's a "group" template anyway... 15 sdi vs 30 SDI, the only heavy damage that template has is DS. It's almost as bad as losing one vs one mage-duel while you're in wraith form against another who is not.

I've died and killed many people on here's the love one vs one and in groups... Learn Me has beaten that template too? who cares, we were talking about Gurads... and the one instance you ran away from my alchy mage that I didn't need to chug anything on during our short fight, to switch to a DP character because your magery isn't as good as mine? lol no one cares about it.

Cool, you have died on your dexer and your mage to me multiple times on my group template and you've never killed me. If you die to me on a group template, you'd get eaten by a 1v1 temp. Plain and simple.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

But that's the thing. Group dynamics shouldn't be factored into balancing - we're not asking for the game to go back to individual pvp (although it'd be nice - as you're well aware from playing with me in the past, I prefer 1v1's to group); as an example, take 3 Holy Fisters against a trio of 1-tile melee dexers. The Holy Fisters would win, simply because they can sync a target with 4/6 casting. 1v1, there's no guarantee the Holy Fister would win (that said, they probably would win 9/10 times.)

Too much wrong with this whole statement. Just showing why you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[CovenantX]

I guess what I'm fishing for here is ok, you drop parry chances to dissuade players from running it. Maybe dexxers become prominent enough that players in turn quit refining suits for higher resists because they don't want to lose dci. What is the best case scenario that comes from that? @CovenantX said himself that doesn't elevate dexxers to the mage level, it just bides them more time because they mage can't go offense nonstop?

Sure, that would fix the issue dexers have now, for the most part at least. It is just RNG, but 50/50 is much better than 32.5/67.5 hit/miss now while the vast majority has parry.
Idealy, Parry should make the hit/miss ratio closer to 40/60. Lower Defense, never has dropped Parry chance, it only affects dodge chance

Mages honestly shouldn't be able to refine armor... and I'm sure it wasn't intended to be that way, as Medable armor can't be refined, but since 55% LMC & 30 MR is possible that's more than enough for a mage to fight without med-armor. consumables contribute a lot to this too. we've talked about most of this in vent (I'm 100% sure).

the RNG of 50/50 does bide more time for a dexer against a mage (less required running away). when you have a low chance to hit, it means the mage doesn't need to heal as often, obviously doesn't get interrupted often, and therefor is able to stay on offense much more often. the dexer has very low chances to win a fight, that's why you don't see solo dexers much anymore.... they're basicaly required to play in groups in order to compete.

I personally, don't care about a dexers Defense That's not the problem (I run 10-25 dci on every non-mage I have), it's their offense that is lacking..
Why do you think melee dexers always have a ranged weapon skill? melee-only blows.. it has for a very long time. but over the recent years with power-creep 1.25s attack speed is fairly easy to reach, it doesn't matter very much when you miss nearly 70% of the time, especially when you need to hit a bare minimum of 4 times in a row to kill someone.

Mages, the offense has more to do with timing than most anything else.

When we were in a guild on LS, how many times did we say holy **** they have a lot of archers? How many times did people die to moving shot and there was nothing you could do about it? On atlantic, if you didn't have parry you were permanently target because one disarm and you were dead. One splinter disarm? Just stand still and take the mortal and four ai's before splinter wears off.

That's a group setting though, even back when disarm/splinter was possible you only died to one disarm/splinter + AIs/Moving shots if you were already low on HP, because splintering (slow) only lasts 4 seconds, and bleed ticks are easy to heal through you could literally mini heal 30%+ of a dexers total damage each hit, and it's VERY easy to get that off between swings without parry. when you have parry you can afford to get lower in HP and the dexer still has to run from you or they're going to die.

a Healing potion alone is 35-46 damage.. that's easily an armor ignore with a hit-spell, negated once every 10 seconds, without factoring misses OR other healing methods.
too easy for a mage to out-heal the damage a dexer can deal because of the low frequency in which hits are landed.

 

[drcossack]

Too much wrong with this whole statement. Just showing why you have no clue what you are talking about.

How is it wrong? If you're not going to offer evidence WHY it's wrong, you're not worth discussing this with. You never learned how to debate, did you? I mean, I know you have no real arguments to present, which is you keep trying to ****-talk both me and Covenant. Stop acting like a 12 year old CoD player and be an adult for once.

 

[CovenantX]

Cool, you have died on your dexer and your mage to me multiple times on my group template and you've never killed me. If you die to me on a group template, you'd get eaten by a 1v1 temp. Plain and simple.

the only thing that's plain and simple here, is that your ego won't admit you die to me far more often than I die to you in every one vs one situation. I've died one vs one to people that are worse than you on occasion on Here's the Love (DS/Mage) I've seen people that don't typically play mages beat "the best mages" in UO in one vs one duels...

Sibble, known for playing NS/DS, destroyed Aeyko in a duel and his entire guild saw it. Aeyko is far better than you, and I've beaten him one vs one with mutliple templates, and he's beaten me several times as well. I'm pretty sure no one cares, except you... Obviously, I'm actually surprised you're still able to post in this thread tbh.

Do I really have to start recording/screenshotting kills? the best part about it, is I don't run anything that's illegal, so it should be extra embarrassing when you get pooped on by me.
as a matter of fact, back in the day I only used to take screenshots of killing people with my Bard or templates that would simply never be seen in any pvp situation. Kinda wish I had during this argument, it's about the only thing that would get you to stop crying to me. (maybe)

 

[Martell]

How is it wrong? If you're not going to offer evidence WHY it's wrong, you're not worth discussing this with. You never learned how to debate, did you? I mean, I know you have no real arguments to present, which is you keep trying to ****-talk both me and Covenant. Stop acting like a 12 year old CoD player and be an adult for once.

Your example is so incredibly vague that it's absolutely meaningless...

There are plenty of easy examples where a one tile dexxer beats a 4/6 character who can cast holy fist 10/10 times and vice versa. It also has nothing to do with parry.

 

[drcossack]

It also has nothing to do with parry.

I never said it did. Where, in that post, did I mention parry? You're both missing the point, fwiw.

 

[Learn Me]

But that's the thing. Group dynamics shouldn't be factored into balancing - we're not asking for the game to go back to individual pvp (although it'd be nice - as you're well aware from playing with me in the past, I prefer 1v1's to group); as an example, take 3 Holy Fisters against a trio of 1-tile melee dexers. The Holy Fisters would win, simply because they can sync a target with 4/6 casting. 1v1, there's no guarantee the Holy Fister would win (that said, they probably would win 9/10 times.)

It's an MMO. I think group dynamics should heavily influence how pvp is adjusted. Like I said, as far as I'm concerned there should be no issue with dexxers filling a support role. You ran with that to say ok put three 1 tile dexxers in a group against another group. That is not how group composition works.

Same example when archers ran rampant and guilds ran one or two mages just to curse and heal for them. Only difference is the roles have changed.

 

[CovenantX]

It's an MMO. I think group dynamics should heavily influence how pvp is adjusted. Like I said, as far as I'm concerned there should be no issue with dexxers filling a support role. You ran with that to say ok put three 1 tile dexxers in a group against another group. That is not how group composition works.

Same example when archers ran rampant and guilds ran one or two mages just to curse and heal for them. Only difference is the roles have changed.

Yes, but you guys seem to ignore the fact that When things are balanced around group vs group pvp, it becomes too difficult to fight one vs one. then group-only fights is all that's left. We've basically been at the point for a few years now, it's just one-sided. a good mage can beat 2-3 average players. a good dexer can barely compete with a good mage one vs one because of how items adversely affect mages compared to how much a benefit dexers get from them.

The only way I see the devs can do anything to balance Dexers vs mages better, is to give Dexers something mages cannot have access to. otherwise, mages will just pick it up and dexers remain in the same place.

 

[Martell]

I never said it did. Where, in that post, did I mention parry? You're both missing the point, fwiw.

Ok fair point, you don't mention parry (even though that's the point of discussion for the past 3 pages), but it still seems like a very vague and meaningless example.

Please elaborate on your nuanced point...

 

[Learn Me]

Sure, that would fix the issue dexers have now, for the most part at least. It is just RNG, but 50/50 is much better than 32.5/67.5 hit/miss now while the vast majority has parry.
Idealy, Parry should make the hit/miss ratio closer to 40/60. Lower Defense, never has dropped Parry chance, it only affects dodge chance

I'd argue that a chance to string together three or four hits in a row that all have a good chance to proc splinter is a good offset to not being a theoretical 40/60 or 50/50 hit chance. If I'm hitting 40/60 before you even account for HLD, there are several weapons that can do 90% of your health in two hits and swinging at 1.25. It just doesn't make sense to me that a template based completely on rng should have increased odds at two shotting me.

Allow mage spells and weapon hits to break dexxer swing recovery and then it could become a discussion. That won't ever happen though.

 

[Martell]

Yes, but you guys seem to ignore the fact that When things are balanced around group vs group pvp, it becomes too difficult to fight one vs one. then group-only fights is all that's left. We've basically been at the point for a few years now, it's just one-sided. a good mage can beat 2-3 average players. a good dexer can barely compete with a good mage one vs one because of how items adversely affect mages compared to how much a benefit dexers get from them.

The only way I see the devs can do anything to balance Dexers vs mages better, is to give Dexers something mages cannot have access too. otherwise, mages will just pick it up and dexers remain in the same place.

I agree with your suggestion that every item should have a cooldown and I think that's largely what the problem is.

The amount of gear and the amount of items that are now a factor in pvp is just absolutely stupid.

At the heart of the issue, IMO, is that for a dexxer to be good, they need to be using every item at their disposal (eg. special attacks, darts/shurikens, trap box, pies, pots, petals, etc.). Mages don't have to use all those things to be effective. If you reduced the number of specials/items being used (and that can be stacked in group fights), parry wouldn't be as huge a necessity and could be toned down.

However, I think we're pretty far past that point and it's not going to happen. I've been waiting 4 years for the +1 casting bonus to be made accessible to reds...if that's too much effort for the devs to put in, I don't think any other major pvp overhaul is feasible.

 

[Learn Me]

Yes, but you guys seem to ignore the fact that When things are balanced around group vs group pvp, it becomes too difficult to fight one vs one. then group-only fights is all that's left. We've basically been at the point for a few years now, it's just one-sided. a good mage can beat 2-3 average players. a good dexer can barely compete with a good mage one vs one because of how items adversely affect mages compared to how much a benefit dexers get from them.

The only way I see the devs can do anything to balance Dexers vs mages better, is to give Dexers something mages cannot have access too. otherwise, mages will just pick it up and dexers remain in the same place.

We agree on most of this! Years ago I was all about 1v1'ing people. Items have completely taken the fun out of this for me. As someone who has played east coast servers from the west most of my time on UO, it was a fun challenge and it was more timing and counter oriented. Now everyone has max hp, eaters, regens, cf, 50ep, confidence, whatever and it's just 20 minutes of back and forth til our jewels break. 3v3 and up is all I find fun anymore.

 

[CovenantX]

I'd argue that a chance to string together three or four hits in a row that all have a good chance to proc splinter is a good offset to not being a theoretical 40/60 or 50/50 hit chance. If I'm hitting 40/60 before you even account for HLD, there are several weapons that can do 90% of your health in two hits and swinging at 1.25. It just doesn't make sense to me that a template based completely on rng should have increased odds at two shotting me.

Allow mage spells and weapon hits to break dexxer swing recovery and then it could become a discussion. That won't ever happen though.

Splinter isn't making or breaking this, Mages splinter just as often as dexers do but the majority of a mages damage (spells) can't miss to begin with. the whole 1.25s attack speed cap doesn't matter either, have you ever noticed people only used fast A F weapons for the most part? that's why.

Mages spell hits breaking swing recovery? lol, so you could harm-spam dexers and they won't swing their weapon ever? that's a horrible idea.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

the only thing that's plain and simple here, is that your ego won't admit you die to me far more often than I die to you in every one vs one situation. I've died one vs one to people that are worse than you on occasion on Here's the Love (DS/Mage) I've seen people that don't typically play mages beat "the best mages" in UO in one vs one duels...

Sibble, known for playing NS/DS, destroyed Aeyko in a duel and his entire guild saw it. Aeyko is far better than you, and I've beaten him one vs one with mutliple templates, and he's beaten me several times as well. I'm pretty sure no one cares, except you... Obviously, I'm actually surprised you're still able to post in this thread tbh.

Do I really have to start recording/screenshotting kills? the best part about it, is I don't run anything that's illegal, so it should be extra embarrassing when you get pooped on by me.
as a matter of fact, back in the day I only used to take screenshots of killing people with my Bard or templates that would simply never be seen in any pvp situation. Kinda wish I had during this argument, it's about the only thing that would get you to stop crying to me. (maybe)

You’ve never killed me. Lol.

And sibble. Lol. We dueled. I still have a screenshot of him paying me gold after he dueled for gold. He was awful.

 

[CovenantX]

You’ve never killed me. Lol.

And sibble. Lol. We dueled. I still have a screenshot of him paying me gold after he dueled for gold. He was awful.

Ok, whatever you say paith We both know the truth, you're just unwilling to admit it. I would have told sibble not to pay you, seeing as you still haven't paid me from the duels we had a decade ago. that's beside the point though.

Edit: that's IF the whole sibble paying you is even true to begin with. I know he'd pay if he had a fight with you, so it's at least partly believable.

 

[Learn Me]

Splinter isn't making or breaking this, Mages splinter just as often as dexers do but the majority of a mages damage (spells) can't miss to begin with. the whole 1.25s attack speed cap doesn't matter either, have you ever noticed people only used fast A F weapons for the most part? that's why.

Mages spell hits breaking swing recovery? lol, so you could harm-spam dexers and they won't swing their weapon ever? that's a horrible idea.

Mages splinter as often as dexxers..? A lot of dexxers run ninjitsu and have 50% or more splintering with focus attack. If a mage is doing that, there's a solid chance he doesn't have parry and doesn't fit what you've been arguing this entire thread. Is a mage swinging at 1.25 or are they casting spells for most of their offense? They literally cannot splinter as much as a dexxer. Either they have way more offense than a dexxer because they can cast uninterrupted, or they splinter just as much as dexxers. It cannot be both.

I don't understand how you are the only one who doesn't realize what an issue splinter is. Explain to me why a dexxer hitting for 35 damage ai's swinging at 1.25 with hit spell going off, along with 2-3 consecutive splinters going off and forcing a mage to bleed walk for 8-10 seconds so they cannot move away from the next ai isn't an issue? The plain and simple numbers are at least 105 damage without hit spells, lp, novas, etc in 4 seconds that cannot be avoided.

 

[drcossack]

Ok fair point, you don't mention parry (even though that's the point of discussion for the past 3 pages), but it still seems like a very vague and meaningless example.

Please elaborate on your nuanced point...

That Template A (let's say Parry Mage) can beat/lose to Template B (let's say an Archer.) In that instance, RNG is THE factor in it happening - I've had fights with archers, Deathstrikers, etc, where they literally did not miss, due to the streakiness of the RNG. The question is how often it happens - Parry Mage vs Dexer = 99% Parry Mage winrate, which is how it should be. If you try to balance the 1v1 dynamic around group pvp, it becomes a huge mess - templates that would work in a group setting (i.e. a necro/weaving mage at a champ spawn) wouldn't work in a 1v1 fight: I wouldn't take my mage for champ spawn fighting to Yew Gate - he'd be a sitting duck. However, I could take my Parry Mage to a champ spawn, and he'd still perform fairly well (but not as well as a different type of mage.)

 

[Martell]

That Template A (let's say Parry Mage) can beat/lose to Template B (let's say an Archer.) In that instance, RNG is THE factor in it happening - I've had fights with archers, Deathstrikers, etc, where they literally did not miss, due to the streakiness of the RNG. The question is how often it happens - Parry Mage vs Dexer = 99% Parry Mage winrate, which is how it should be. If you try to balance the 1v1 dynamic around group pvp, it becomes a huge mess - templates that would work in a group setting (i.e. a necro/weaving mage at a champ spawn) wouldn't work in a 1v1 fight: I wouldn't take my mage for champ spawn fighting to Yew Gate - he'd be a sitting duck. However, I could take my Parry Mage to a champ spawn, and he'd still perform fairly well (but not as well as a different type of mage.)

Again, your example is pretty dumb imo. If you know basic game mechanics, you can take any template to a champ spawn and do pretty well. That more has to do with pvm being absolutely mindless...

If you're in a 1v1 field fight, a dexxer/archer with items can do well against a mage even with parry. Similarly, any hybrid template (even something like what Learn Me outlined above with wep skill/magery/mystic) could light a parry mage up. So I don't see your point, if you're saying parry mages are ruining pure, no item 1v1's; sure they might be. Does anyone do pure 1v1's anymore? No. So does it matter? Imo no.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Ok, whatever you say paith We both know the truth, you're just unwilling to admit it. I would have told sibble not to pay you, seeing as you still haven't paid me from the duels we had a decade ago. that's beside the point though.

Edit: that's IF the whole sibble paying you is even true to begin with. I know he'd pay if he had a fight with you, so it's at least partly believable.

Lol. I’ve dueled less than 10 people for gold. You were never one of them. The weird lies you are coming up with in this thread are amusing though.

It’s what happens when you just die to me and can’t get a kill.

It’s called warshak syndrome. The question here is did you rub off o. Him or he on you?

 

[Cetric]

3 people.... 3 people with this opinion and viewpoint. All play together on a relatively dead shard as far as PvP goes.

I'm done arguing this point. You guys don't get it and I don't think you ever will. I just hope devs don't manage to read what you state as facts.

 

[drcossack]

3 people.... 3 people with this opinion and viewpoint. All play together on a relatively dead shard as far as PvP goes.

I'm done arguing this point. You guys don't get it and I don't think you ever will. I just hope devs don't manage to read what you state as facts.

And the only one really making points in favor of the other argument is Learn Me. Whether we're right or wrong, what do you think the devs will pay more attention to: Posts like this one and Paith's, which aren't bringing much to the table in terms of discussion, or posts where people (whether right or wrong) are having civil discussion?

Again, your example is pretty dumb imo. If you know basic game mechanics, you can take any template to a champ spawn and do pretty well. That more has to do with pvm being absolutely mindless...

I wasn't referring to the spawn though. A parry mage CAN work for a chokepoint (or trying to break through it), but a necro/weaver has more utility in the form of Gift of Renewal, Thunderstorm/Essence of Wind, Mana Shield, and Wraith Form/Wither.