Summoning Pet Balls, Animal Form, and Pets

[Blaze of Baja]

Simple solution, make Animal Form count as a control slot.

It’s been a while since tamers had a decent pet and players will have to get used to them again. Recall that pets were nurfed a while back having their HP cut in half. Pet balls are fine as they are, I use in PvM all the time to get pets out of nasty situations.

 

[imported_Sarphus]

I like a lot of the nerfs to the pet ball, but there is a pet control angle that is largely getting missed.

I think we need a way to disable pet auto-defend AND a massive nerf of pet balls. I don't think pet balls were ever intended to be used as a way to pull your pet out of a fight the tamer doesn't want the pet in. if the tamer could disable auto-defend on his pet, there's no need for the summoning ball to be a pet evacuaction item.

 

[Nerf-Herder]

<blockquote><hr>

Simple solution, make Animal Form count as a control slot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pasting from earlier... AGAIN!

No. Not at all. Not even close. Gonna say it again...

Running while shifted into a ninja form does not, repeat: DOES NOT, make the tamed pets move toward their target or follow the tamer any faster...

PET BALLS DO IT!

It's real simple. The tamer "all kills" a target, then runs alongside the now fleeing target while repeatedly hitting his pet ball macro. Result: Dead Target.

If you do the same thing without a pet ball, it will result in a vulnerable tamer being alone on the field with his now enraged target and the pet(s) now several screens behind or stuck on a house or some other obstacle.

If animal form is made to take a control slot and pet balls are left alone, all that will happen is "PvP" tamers will go back to doing the same crap, but they will be using a rune beetle.

Are you understanding the situation now?



What the hell is wrong with UHall? Everyone seems to read only the original post, add their two cents, and then ignore any post that isn't a DIRECT reply to theirs.
No matter. I'm adamant about getting pet balls fixed and fixed properly, so I will continue to repost/paste this explanation of the problem until the entirety of UHall understands the situation.

 

[Nerf-Herder]

<blockquote><hr>

I don't think pet balls were ever intended to be used as a way to pull your pet out of a fight the tamer doesn't want the pet in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point here. This addresses all of the tamers that use pet balls this way. As a mage or a melee fighter, you sometimes wind up picking fights you shouldn't have or putting yourself in a situation of iminent death. So be it. It's part of the game. It happens.

But nooooooooo, it can't happen to a tamer. I say tough titty to those kittys. They chose to bring the pets there, let them suffer the damn consequences if they don't know how to fight.

You know the tamer motto... "When your pets do something great, you take the credit. When you get smoked, you blame your 'stoopid' pets"

 

[imported_Sarphus]

well that wasn't exactly my point. My point is that tamers should be able to opt their pet out of auto-defend, because auto-defend is as bad of a game mechanic as pet balls.

Pet balls are a kludge when used to fix auto-defend. They weren't designed for that purpose and are only a work around for a more robust solution.

The ideal solution would be to make it so when a tamer issues a certain number of follow commands in a certain amount of time, the pet stops auto-defending for a period of time. That way a tamer can evac his pet out of a mess without a pet ball and the tamer still has control of his pet.

Auto-defend in some situations can completely take the tamer out of the equation because it is not possible for the tamer to command his pet with all the junk that is hitting it.

Personally, I'd be perfectly happy with the ability to disable pet auto-defend all together.

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

But that's not how taming was designed to be and not what petballs were put in for; they were to reduce the number calls to GMs about stuck pets, not reduce the risk to the pet and the owner.

[/ QUOTE ]
Odd, everyone else got reduced risk.

I have no issues relying on how I control a pet by commands, I -do- have issues with how they react to said commands.
Everyone else got rediculous control over how they handle their chars (specs, mods, etc), yet animal control is still as flaky as when it came out.
Fix it, and they can burn pet balls for all I care. (I want some fire rubble)

 

[Nerf-Herder]

I actually like that idea. Unfortunately, pets are not being dealt with at all with this change. Leuroy said he was only looking at the pet ball.

Remember the idea though and mention it when the next PvP pass is discussed. Jeremy has already said that pets will be looked at and possibly adjusted in that pass.

 

[Guest]

Im 6 years pvp tamer.
We use pet balls becasue we want to save ouer pets!Why?
You ask whay?
After my pet die i have to train it some times 1-2 houers for skilllost!
does any necro mage pk train 2 houers becasue of skillost.
If not i want the old time where pks have skillstatlost after die
and they need to be nerved to have a timer on recall as you want for ouer petballs!
Im making now the suggestion to get skilllost after die like pre AOS for pks.

 

[Al Thorin]

After reading this thread, here are my following suggestions.

Fix Pet AI.
Follow should be follow. Period. If something is next to the pet, fine, it can hit back, but it should keep following the owner. And the proper follow, not the pathetic way they do now.

Kill should be kill. I sick my pets on something, their focus should be 100% on that target untill it's dead, or cannot be reached.

Guard/auto defense. This ones so messed up it isn't funny. Why does my pet hug a wall when a mob targets it from 3 rooms away? If there's no LOS, there should be -no- response.

Pet Ball Charges according to Follower Slots.

SHORT Cooldown, 10-30 seconds.
Combined with a increased charge usage (AND the trans powder quest change) this should severly limit the ability to chain summon a pet. I personally think the cost alone would limit it.

Auto Stables changed.
How often do pets check for their masters? 5 min divided by how ever long that is, failed checks results in the animal going to the pound. They cannot be summoned, they have to be collected. (Also removes them from follower slots)

This should operate all the time, at any time, wether the owner is logged in or not. I know this would affect several aspects, including leaving Cu's in a spawn area, and people leaving packys at dungeon enterances (negative really, maybe this shouldn't apply to pack animals, but auto stable doesn't already so maybe it's fine)

Animal form, sorry, but these should count as follower slots. They should -not- be able to be used as a way to bypass control slots. Everyone else needs to deal with it, Ninjas should not be exempt, for the negatives of animal form, there are positives, bonus's, mount on the run, etc.

Pet Commands. Whisper should work like it does for people. I love using whisper to command my pet from a screen away, but it doesn't make sense.


Couple Side Notes;
I would have no issues if pets were nerfed, as long as we were able to equip them, or feed em statscrolls, or other forms of customization.

Pet Training should be looked at. Either increased speed at training, or the removal of stat loss on death. They -are- a pain to train, especially things like magery, and loosing .1 could take -days- to replace.
Got no issues training pets, but with skills lost on death, it needs to be tweaked.

 

[Guest]

Good points

There are honest players who will suffer. It angers me greatly that a very small minority make problems for the rest of us. I've tried to suggest things I thought would help, for both sides, but I know it's an emotive subject

I think I got frustrated this morning, because it seemed that in the desire to maintain their use of pet balls, some players weren't willing to compromise.

I would imagine we'll get a fix for the issues of PvP tamers, then as a sweetener, fixes to pet AI so the balls themselves aren't so necessary for some tamers. And some stable slots to fit the packs we can now control with that improved AI. Maybe the humble reptalon might even be balanced properly heh.

Leurocian's done us proud before, I'm sure any fixes will be done carefully.

Wenchy

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

Wont work. As pointed out before Noxin, many pet ball based PvP tamers carry extra powders and have a macro to recharge the ball on the move.

[/ QUOTE ]
grrrr

You guys REALLY need to think ahead a bit here.

The powder quest was nerfed to heck and back, and we still havn't seen the fallout of that change. My powder stocks are still good, and will be for another month or two.

The power changes basically increased their cost by 10x. Plus with Bags nerfed, I see alot less people doing the quest in general.

That quest would take me.. maybe 30 min? I can burn through alot more than 6 charges in 30 min of fighting. Plus if the adjusted balls to work on Follower slots, a single Super Dragon summon would cost me 30 min of time, possibly upto 10k in gold, and I could only do it 4 times per ball. That's a pretty huge effect once Trans power stocks wear down.

Sure, I could load up on balls, but now I'm looking at high insurance costs. I only have 2 balls insured, and I feel that as it is. (Remeber, tamers don't get insurance money ALOT of the time)

I manage to keep the gold flow on tamer tamer about even, which is a feat as far as I am concerned. The power changes alone once they filter down will hurt my bottom line, and someone who -relies- on chaining pet balls would have to be rich, AND find enough people who want to supply them. Even if trans powder only hit 1k, that's 5k to summon a Super. Chaining that would be pointless especially with not getting insurance gold.

 

[Al Thorin]

I have no issue with them adjusted how things work. My concern lies in that many people's idea of fixing involves nerfing tamers out of PVP.

While I understand their perspective, PVM vs PVP, I don't subscribe to it, and I will defend my playstyle to the death. I've got 8 years of Taming PVP behind me, and I know their strengths, weaknesses, and whats wrong. MOST of the issues are hybrids, as per normal. Combined with PVP'rs refusal to start packing bards (something THEY can do to combat tamers) because Bards also do not belong in PVP.

Bleh.

Anyways, I understand the frustrations, I'm very passionate about my play style as well.

 

[Guest]

Aye, I live in Fel so the last thing I want is to be everyone's favourite thing to squit

I won't pretend to be a good PvPer, but I do enjoy it.

Wenchy

 

[Lord_Puffy]

Leurocian


Can you please give us some feedback on our ideas and let us know when and what you think will be a possible impliment?

 

[Nico-SP]

timer on pet balls
no useing while in form
form take pet slots
pets not be able to insta log when crim

that doesnt hurt anyone in trammel and only effects pvp which is by far a fair balancing patch.

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

<blockquote><hr>

Leurocian


Can you please give us some feedback on our ideas and let us know when and what you think will be a possible impliment?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good idea. A two way dialogue will lead to better solutions than a one way dialogue.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

timer on pet balls
no useing while in form
form take pet slots
pets not be able to insta log when crim

that doesnt hurt anyone in trammel and only effects pvp which is by far a fair balancing patch.

[/ QUOTE ]

there is NO reason to make a animal form take a control slot. this whole issue can be fixed without messing with animal form any more.

No pet summons in forms, and a small wait, similar to the evade timer.

If your pet cant last the 20-30 seconds you have summoned it, then DONT SUMMON. Right now tamers with pets are the ZERG of pvp.

Anyone remember what it was like to think before you commanded your pet? Anyone remember unbonded pets? Anyone remember what it was like for it to MATTER if your pet died?

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

there is NO reason to make a animal form take a control slot. this whole issue can be fixed without messing with animal form any more.

[/ QUOTE ]
There's no reason NOT to do it.
The -only- class it effects is Tamer Ninjas.
Face it, the dragon is -intended- to leave the tamer on foot.

<blockquote><hr>

Anyone remember what it was like to think before you commanded your pet? Anyone remember unbonded pets? Anyone remember what it was like for it to MATTER if your pet died?

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope. I used to be compedative as just a 5x mage, when I had pets there, they were in a disposable role. (Fresh tames)

 

[Al Thorin]

Oh, and;

Summoning a pet should break any and all agro's, and cancle/void any cast spells.

AND/OR

have a 'timer' on summing the pet, where once summoned, the pet goes ethereal for say, 2-5 seconds, then it is summoned to the master. The purpose is to stop any damage, and allow any cast spells or whatnot to timeout before teleporting the pet.
A summoning message would then be usefull.

 

[rsinbad]

nerf this, nerf that and take the fun out of the game and kill pvp... why? because some people cannot improvise against some tactics. Well, I am not much of a pvp person at all and I shouldn't care about it but I do care for the sake of the game itself. Instead of nerfing this and that developers should look into the ways of preventing exploit users and speedhackers. Bah

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

<blockquote><hr>

There's no reason NOT to do it.
The -only- class it effects is Tamer Ninjas.
Face it, the dragon is -intended- to leave the tamer on foot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes there is, how about because Ninjas been nerfed enough? How about because it wouldn't even be in discussion if pet balls wern't causing a problem? How about because it wouldn't even be in discussion if tamers hadn't got a new 5 slot pet?

It would affect all ninjas, especially ones who use mirror images. It would affect ninja tamers in PVM, I use a ninja tamer in PVM I use other forms than just mounted speed. Just because half the players in the game don't know what the other forms do doesn't mean no one is using them.

By your logic as the dragon is intended to leave the tamer on foot and you seem to think thats the problem being discussed how about we remove the dragon?

I don't think one person has said they actually want the dragon removed, I don't. But it will be utter bs if Ninjitsu gets a nerf because tamers got a new pet.

I'll say it again, the ONLY change that needs to happen is if you can't use a pet ball in animal form, that solves the pvp problem with it on production shards. As far as anyone else it would make no difference.

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>


Yes there is, how about because Ninjas been nerfed enough? How about because it wouldn't even be in discussion if pet balls wern't causing a problem? How about because it wouldn't even be in discussion if tamers hadn't got a new 5 slot pet?

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah but pet balls alone are not what's causing the -specific- issue with Super Dragons. Being able to chase some at mounted speed with a super dragon being summoned VIA pet ball is.
In fact, simply being able to use a super dragon, and run away at mounted speed isn't right. They're 5 slot for a -reason-.

Both are messed up, and both need to be adjusted.

And no, 'how about because Ninjas been nerfed enough?' doesn't fly. By that reasoning, no one can touch taming or any other class cause they've -all- been through nerfs.

Making ninja form take a follower slot barely nerfs anything other than ninja tamers.

 

[Sir Ha-ward]

<blockquote><hr>

nerf this, nerf that and take the fun out of the game and kill pvp... why? because some people cannot improvise against some tactics. Well, I am not much of a pvp person at all and I shouldn't care about it but I do care for the sake of the game itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you do care for the game itself then you shouldnt complain about so many people wanting to make it better for the majority then should you?

 

[imported_Traveller]

In addition to a reuse timer I would put a "before use" timer, much like the delay on ethereals. When you use a pet ball you automatically turn out visible and stay freezed in place for 3-10 secs. That should be probably enough to not even require a reuse timer.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>


Face it, the dragon is -intended- to leave the tamer on foot.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, the dragon is intended to take 5 control slots. Thats it.

Just like a mare/beetle is intented to take 5 control slots, and a dragon/mare. etc.



The dragon was intended to not allow a player to mount another pet, ethy, etc. while having that pet out. Animal form is NOT mounted because of its obvious drawbacks that can cut almost ALL of your template away...


Can you do the following in animal form?
Cast magery spells
Use specials
Cast bushido spells
Death strike, Ki attack
Cast chivalry
Cast necromancy spells
Use spirit speak

NO.

There is allready enough drawbacks to ninjitsu's animal form. Do we need another? NO.

Wake up and realize that not everything that is related to this overpowered template needs to be nerfed (As you are obviously asking). Just a few things.

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

Can you do the following in animal form?
Cast magery spells
Use specials
Cast bushido spells
Death strike, Ki attack
Cast chivalry
Cast necromancy spells
Use spirit speak

NO.

There is allready enough drawbacks to ninjitsu's animal form. Do we need another? NO.

[/ QUOTE ]
Those are in place to account for other -passive- bonus's.
HP Increases, Stealth Bonus's, Regen Rates, etc.

I think many of the limits were placed because at the time, dismounting didn't effect them, so you had people running at mounted speeds, with bonus's, and were still performing specials and such.

There's two options, one is stopping usage of pet balls outright in animal form, or making animal form take a control slot. Personally, a control slot seems much less limited.

 

[imported_Yalp]

I have to hold my head to keep it from exploding! And I think my tongue to prevent it from getting me banned!

A few pvpers complain about a new suped dragon/pet ball usage in fel and there's already efforts to collect ideas to NERF it... OMG! Can this truly be standard operating procedure for this game????

For every ONE person complaining about the ninja/tamer/stealther/dragon/petball issue.. there are 1000 who have NO ISSUE with it at all!

First.. pets dying is an issue because they loose at LEAST 5 skill points across the board..7 for dragons. Do pvp'rs loose 7 skill points when they die? NO way! Is there a UHALL thread where I can complain about this and get UO to nerf that? I think I can find about 12 tamers to complain about this till the PTB nerf every single pvp! We 12 should be able to force a change in the game that affects every single one of UO's paying customers!

Second.. as expressed before.. ALL follow me commands are totally messed up. Imagine if you will.. you don't pull your pet out of a fight unless it's going down and the pet is OVERWHELMED.. usually when it's down to less than 1/10th heal. Because as a tamer you are trying to heal it to keep it in there. We don't especially like leaving half dead monsters all over the game! Pulling a pet out of a fight is like pulling teeth.. recalling out and using the pet summoning ball is our lifeline. If we are too slow or the ball is on a timer delay.. that just cost us 4, 5, 6, 7 skill points. The line for pvp'ers willing to accept that loss everytime you die starts immediatley after this post.

Third... Tamer and pet in fel is a 2 PERSON TEAM. Good strategy remains the same.. kill the tamer.. then the pet. By reducing the ability of a tamer to use it's teammate effectively, you handicap the tamer. A new line forms behind me for those who want to voice their insistance that UO prevent all multi-person gank squads from running around in FEL. I bet I can get at least 12 miners to get on the boards to get that passed through.

Change your tactics.. change your resistance, get a dragon slayer, change your template to handle the rare occassions you might run into a tamer w/ a supped dragon in Fel..

LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

<blockquote><hr>

Ah but pet balls alone are not what's causing the -specific- issue with Super Dragons. Being able to chase some at mounted speed with a super dragon being summoned VIA pet ball is.

[/ QUOTE ]

The issue isn't specific to the new dragons, it's been done with cu's and beetles. If animal form took a control slot it'd be done VIA the pet ball and a Cu, if animal form took 2 control slots it'd be done VIA the pet ball and a beetle.

If you the address the VIA then you address the problem.

<blockquote><hr>

In fact, simply being able to use a super dragon, and run away at mounted speed isn't right. They're 5 slot for a -reason-.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and in probability I'd say that reason is more so you can't have a super dragon and another pet out more than anything to do with movement.

<blockquote><hr>

Both are messed up, and both need to be adjusted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yet no one was asking for animal form to take a slot before the 5 slot dragon came out, hm strange that.

<blockquote><hr>

And no, 'how about because Ninjas been nerfed enough?' doesn't fly. By that reasoning, no one can touch taming or any other class cause they've -all- been through nerfs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have they -all- been nerfed equally? In a balanced manner? To the same extent?
The simple fact remains that adding a control slot only hinders the PVM Ninja/Tamers into the bargain on top of the fel users. As I feel that Ninjitsu shouldn't be changed because of taming I definitely won't ever feel that PVM should be changed because of something in PVP.

<blockquote><hr>

Making ninja form take a follower slot barely nerfs anything other than ninja tamers.

[/ QUOTE ]
The extent doesn't matter, I could argue that taking the dragon out of the game barely affects anyone as it hasn't been in long enough to get attached to and is causing nothing but silly requests. But then we don't want that.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>


There's two options, one is stopping usage of pet balls outright in animal form, or making animal form take a control slot. Personally, a control slot seems much less limited.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why affect animal form completely?

There is no reason.

If anything it would be better to not allow in animal form.

What about having the pet summon ball be on the same wait timer that dismounts and animal form reuse is?

Its still going to suck for a ninja to run in, hop out of form with his faster casting, dismount you with his heavy xbow, summon, all kill with his greater dragon. It will only take one try if you know what your doing..

 

[Al Thorin]

Ah, yes, but to dismount you, they had to drop out of animal form in the first place.

Having the form take a control slot would prevent them from using a super dragon in the process. They'd be stuck with another single pet, thats far less powerfull.

When they came out, I knew animal form would become an issue. The new dragons can hit HARD, they can do really good firebreath, cast at very high levels, AND have a HP Pool that makes it a true tank.

Having on summoned on you by someone moving at mounted speed is -FAR- more problematic than someone on foot, plus they have the advantage of being able to flee at mounted speed should their attempt fail and there's a good chance the beast will survive a good while.

Even if they had to drop out of animal form to resummon, they -still- have an advantage, run upto you, drop form, summon, go back into form, and catch right back upto you and repeat.

Having a hyru, Cu, Beetle, or even normal dragons doing this is no where near as troublesome as the new dragons.

The dragons can be very ballanced -one- way. The tamer using them -must- remain at foot speed. Anything short of that, pet balls or not, and they will remain overpowered.

 

[Lord_Puffy]

Leurocian


Can you please give us some feedback on our ideas and let us know when and what you think will be a possible impliment?


2nd attempt.

 

[Lord_Puffy]

<blockquote><hr>

nerf this, nerf that and take the fun out of the game and kill pvp... why? because some people cannot improvise against some tactics. Well, I am not much of a pvp person at all and I shouldn't care about it but I do care for the sake of the game itself. Instead of nerfing this and that developers should look into the ways of preventing exploit users and speedhackers. Bah

[/ QUOTE ]


You said it yourself you shouldnt care so go back to your non pvp gold cursor and butt out of our buiness I mean srsly....

THOSE CHANGES WILL NOT CHANGE ANY FORM OF FARMING/HUNTING/DOOM/PEERLESS ECT ECT...

Its a simple fix for a OUT OF CONTROL PROBLEM.


Leurocian????

You started this mess can you at least come respond with some of your future plans/ideas?

You asked for our input we gave it.... Can you please respond now?

 

[Lord_Puffy]

Lord God, How does taking pet slots up nerf a ninja template?

Last time I checked any mount you ride ethreal or tamed takes up slots.... Why shouldnt the lower ninja forms take less slots and the higher ones take more??

Makes to much sense, nm..... Some people will never understand

 

[Lord_Puffy]

oh ya and dont worry, you can always smoke bomb.....


Get it, Got it? GOOD!

 

[Lord_Puffy]

how does making animal form take pet slots nerf your template Id love to hear it... You can still smoke bomb in animal form.... shadow jump.... So just because your whole gimp template is about to be FIXED not NERFED dont play it off like its this drastic thing... drastic as in what we have been dealing with the last what 2 years with these bogus skills that were added to the game with minimal to no thought behind them...


Go on test and find a new template your gimpness is about to be over.

 

[Lord_Puffy]

Yalp

NO PVPERS DONT LOSE SKILL WHEN THEY DIE BECAUSE THEY DIE...

So basically should pets lose skills everytime they are insta logged? Cmon man wheres your head....


These changes have 0 to do with pvm... Strickly pvp so what is the big deal if us 100 people have a problem, an our solution doesnt effect the masses of you 1000's?

I mean srsly cmon now....

PS SUPERDRAGON IS ADDED TO GAME AND PVMERS ARE ALRDY PUSHING FOR MORE TAMER SLOTS!

Lil Irony?

 

[Guest]

Al Thorin calm down and make new template not only necro-mage!
I have a song for you and if you like go on madonna.com and we make some cash.
Song:
Nerf this nerf that hands up wahts up.New one old one but its still to hard.
Fight this fight that im out.They want fight i dont want but ist still quit.
Never ask about the big red one(dragon) or you are out.
Nerf ths nerf that and you are out.Dont hurt just calm dont and we
will see the fight.You want a fight i want a fight wich never will arrive.
Nerv this nerv that hands up whats up.
Dont cray and feel be cool.

 

[imported_Traveller]

Oh, btw, shouldn't animal form, at least for the running forms, take 1 control slot? That would elminate a lot of abuses.

 

[Lord_Puffy]

Thats ok thanks for all the kind thoughts... But srsly I prefer scatman for my song....

 

[Lady_Emma]

I have not used the dragons on Baja yet though i did try them on test because of illness. However, it seems that all this discussion is by pvpers. One of the main problems pvmers have with pets is that they follow spawn and will not return when called. Either the tamer can run and summon the pet to a safe location or he can chase the stupid beast until both of them are killed. A delay would be detrimental to pvmers.
Pvmers usually do not use ninja tamers so if players in animal form could not use pet ball. Therefore, I think that not allowing ninja player to use summoning balls would be a better idea than a timer or not allowing the use of balls in t2a.
I know players do not like to be killed by pets and many will cry unfair but historically players are killed by most other fighting and spawning types of characters and for some reason this is seen as fair.
Pvpers are used to having the best in suits and armor and weapons and they control and prevent most players from having a fair chance, particularly players without large bank rolls. Super dragons level the playing field somewhat for the average player. I hope you do not cave to the pressures of pvpers, many of which are very unfair and often employ cheat programs and ghost cams and cripple dragons again and put tamers out of the game..

 

[imported_Yalp]

how about this.. someone actually MAKE a template that CAN take out the new dragons/stealth/ninja/tamer/pet summoning.. and if there are NO means to counteract this then we can talk about what needs to be done with the summoning balls.. as of YET I haven't read any post that says anyone made even the SLIGHTEST effort to see if there is anything already in game to counteract this pet ball so-called issue. All I've seen are just a bunch of complaints... and apparently a willingness to listen to a couple of loud voices.

And as far as I can see.. my monthly charge to have an account in this game gives me just as MUCH right to express my opinion about this issue as everyone else, regardless of whether I play pvp, pvm, or smithy smither.

LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM

 

[fred252]

<blockquote><hr>

Animal form, sorry, but these should count as follower slots. They should -not- be able to be used as a way to bypass control slots. Everyone else needs to deal with it, Ninjas should not be exempt, for the negatives of animal form, there are positives, bonus's, mount on the run, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many are saying that animal form should use a FOLLOWER/CONTROL SLOT. Problem is that there is no FOLLOWER. It is the character in a different FORM, not a FOLLOWER. So, no to using a control slot in animal form.

 

[Guest]

Yalp you dont need to see to try it against a tamer!
Becasue to control such a greater Dragon you need to feed him often and today on Atlatnic i sow a greater Dragon got wild and the tamer dint got it under control and lost it.
If you have a highend tamer to controll it then its a long way.And you cant skill a tamer on a Golem!
And if you have a tamer witch can controll it and who has the knoledge of pvp then this are two long ways.

 

[fred252]

The best fix would be to not let these new dragons be tamable. Who's bright idea was that anyway ?

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

<blockquote><hr>

Lord God, How does taking pet slots up nerf a ninja template?

[/ QUOTE ]

How many more times do I need to say this?

They get less slots they get less mirror images, on a ninja tamer they can't use the other forms, that hardly seems fair considering ninjitsu wasn't even being looked at until taming got a new pet.

<blockquote><hr>

Last time I checked any mount you ride ethreal or tamed takes up slots.... Why shouldnt the lower ninja forms take less slots and the higher ones take more??

[/ QUOTE ]
Why should it, your not riding a mount or an ethereal. I've never seen a frog riding a horse, or a cat or a dog or anything else in the animal form menu.

Animal form isn't a follower, it isn't a hireling and it isn't a pet, it's you.

You're right about one thing, some people will never understand. Just a shame you don't realise thats you.

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

<blockquote><hr>

oh ya and dont worry, you can always smoke bomb.....
Get it, Got it? GOOD!


[/ QUOTE ]

Got it? No, you're talking about stealth/tamers, we're talking about ninjitsu/tamers in both pvp and pvm and how to resolve the abuse in pvp without affecting the pvm.

So talking about smoke bombs has f all to do with anything.

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

<blockquote><hr>

how does making animal form take pet slots nerf your template Id love to hear it

[/ QUOTE ]

You should try reading the other 10 pages then you'd have so much fun.

<blockquote><hr>

You can still smoke bomb in animal form.... shadow jump....

[/ QUOTE ]

No, we're not talking about stealth tamers, we're talking about ninjitsu tamers. As neither smoke bombs or shadow jump are on either of those on a viable ninja tamer template on a production shard neither have anything to do with this topic.

<blockquote><hr>

So just because your whole gimp template is about to be FIXED not NERFED dont play it off like its this drastic thing... drastic as in what we have been dealing with the last what 2 years with these bogus skills that were added to the game with minimal to no thought behind them...

[/ QUOTE ]

You clearly haven't understood what any of this is about. When you talk about minimal thought behind it you should look at your posts in relation to the rest of this topic.

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

Let's make bonding of non-rideables require a personal bless on Siege.

-Warriors have to PBD their weapon.
-Mages have to PBD their super 1/3 or Orny.
-Ninja/Tamers have to PBD...nothing that weakens their tactics.

It could be like old UO where you actually had to earn a living!

 

[Nerf-Herder]

<blockquote><hr>

how about this.. someone actually MAKE a template that CAN take out the new dragons/stealth/ninja/tamer/pet summoning.. and if there are NO means to counteract this then we can talk about what needs to be done with the summoning balls.. as of YET I haven't read any post that says anyone made even the SLIGHTEST effort to see if there is anything already in game to counteract this pet ball so-called issue. All I've seen are just a bunch of complaints... and apparently a willingness to listen to a couple of loud voices.

And as far as I can see.. my monthly charge to have an account in this game gives me just as MUCH right to express my opinion about this issue as everyone else, regardless of whether I play pvp, pvm, or smithy smither.

LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you going to do to a tamer chasing you while spamming his pet ball macro? Stop and cast spells at him? Try to melee him or shoot arrows? A bard can area peace, but the tamer can recommand and start chasing//balling again. All of these eventually lead to you getting killed. Your only hope is that you actually run significantly faster than the tamer. The only real counter (except for gankage) is if you are also running a tamer. In this case, it is likely that the two of you would kill each other.

Yes, you have just as much of a right to express your opinion, but any opinion needs to based on facts. You are not understanding the situation, so let me describe it a bit...


Pasting of earlier post... AGAIN!

No. Not at all. Not even close. Gonna say it again...

Running while shifted into a ninja form does not, repeat: DOES NOT, make the tamed pets move toward their target or follow the tamer any faster...

PET BALLS DO IT!

It's real simple. The tamer "all kills" a target, then runs alongside the now fleeing target while repeatedly hitting his pet ball macro. Result: Dead Target.

If you do the same thing without a pet ball, it will result in a vulnerable tamer being alone on the field with his now enraged target and the pet(s) now several screens behind or stuck on a house or some other obstacle.

If animal form is made to take a control slot and pet balls are left alone, all that will happen is "PvP" tamers will go back to doing the same crap, but they will be using a rune beetle.

Are you understanding the situation now?

Animal taming and ninja together aren't the problem. The problem only exists when a pet ball is brought in.

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

Nerf-Herder

I'm glad theres at least a few people in this thread that actually know what the problem is and how to solve it without imposing penalties on innocent skills.

I remain optimistic that the devs can spot the difference.