Summoning Pet Balls, Animal Form, and Pets

[imported_Gwendar-SP]

I've heard that the new super dragons are a bit overpowered for PvP. Certainly a limit on pet ball use would help some since the dragons are reported to be slow. Another thing that might help would be to put caps on the dragons skills when it it fighting players like there is on other aspects in the game.

Shame it is probably too late to slow down the pet/item/monster inflation.

 

[Calibretto]

<blockquote><hr>

Leurocian and Jeremy are at the Town Hall.

Devs are not obliged to answer an impatient player's pestering and commit their next steps unnecessarily. I think you can spend the time to learn how to pvp better.

You might also want to start breathing. Green does not suit you.

[/ QUOTE ]



Spend the time to learn how to pvp better. Your funny. Small minded but funny.

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

Anything for us yet Leuro?

 

[Spree]

wait till tomorrow morning he must be at the airport now.

 

[LAH Architect]

You give Seige players a bad name, coming here as an over-bearing 'want-it-now' whiner. We are all aware that Seige players find it harder to fight against pets due to lower armor resist and no insurance.

Seige is special. Seige is veteran. Seige is the harder shard with more challenge. BUT it is not for the majority. I don't think your quote of 1000 PvPers just mean Seige, becos I think the active population aint even reaching that. If you quote figures that include normal shard, bear in mind that normal shard PvPers are coping ok. I know many Baja PvPers that can survive that dismount archer petball dragon tactic. If Seige needs a fix, then fix Seige. Whether it works or not, let time tell. I can only say I dun see a thriving thief community there despite no insurance.

If you were any good as a dismount archer tamer ninja stealther, your name is marked and you are always targeted first for extermination. Smart PvPers set traps for such templates. Their glaring weakness is no magic resist, limited healing and no meditation, parry, hence easy targets. You mght want to come to a normal shard to learn new tactics. Despite your Seige eliteness, I'm sure there's always something new that 20 other shards' PvPers can teach you.

Lesson one : Patience is a Virtue !

 

[Lord_Puffy]

id love to really get into whos a better pvper but i dont care, id like to see the fix on petballs and ninja form... so dont worry about me

and you know as little about me as you say i do about you so...

 

[Guest]

Forgive us, my friend. We fight for what we believe in. I am sorry if Siege folks seem to go against the grain. We have a different game. Unfortunately, it is tied to yours.

Trust me. If I had my way, these games would not intertwine. They do, and until that happy day when we are our own game, you will hear from us. A lot.

 

[Lord_Puffy]

no their game is tied to ours... we are what was once that pitiful game called trammel they all love...

 

[Nico-SP]

Damn Kelmo i think i love you

Leurocian any updates sir?

 

[Nico-SP]

Lesson one : On SP Patience is a Way of Life!

*Claps* Bravo great way to explain it...

 

[Guest]

*smiles* You will find me as a major Siege advocate here on the Hall. I try not to argue to much with the folk here, I truly believe we should be a different game. *nods*

I weary of trying to to recruit. I am tired of telling folks what we stand for. I really wish we were a different game.

 

[Guest]

And yes, this is way off topic. I know. You have to expect that so long.

 

[LAH Architect]

Absolutely no problem with that Kelmo.

I don't think there is a single person on Stratics Forum that don't agree that Siege players are having it bad against pets. You guys run around in all 50s suit ? * Shivers * Normal Shard PvP Mages will tell you how important the 'Curse' Spell to reduce opponents from all 70s to all 60s is !

Just as the devs fixed the blessings on ember leggings, they can do a fix on Siege for Pets there. The problem for Siege is the whole tamer profession, you can tell just by how popular that template is, as we are told many of the Siege 'veteran' PvPers flock to play tamers ?

However this is not the case for the normal shards as there is no massive swing of templates towards just Tamers. Granted Tamers may have higher DPS but they have more weaknesses too, the more points they pile on other skills like ninjitsu, stealth, hiding. Everybody has 700-720 skill points to use, you gain one ability, you lose some. Even the dreaded 'Stealth Dismount Ninja Archer Tamer' (see how many skills in one template ?) has many many weakness a seasoned player can exploit. Higher Offence but Lower Defense. This is a well-known design for many games. A, B, C . A stronger than B stronger than C stronger than A. But 2As can still take on a B using tactics. It's all pros and cons. Tactics become valuable too.

I'm arguing for the case of 'Template Diversity' making the game more fun and validating PvP Bards as a valuable profession in Fel.

Siege people need a Siege SPECIAL fix , so kindly do not quote figures that include normal shards and bringing into arguments your experiences on Siege and muddle up the discussions. It's comparing apples and oranges.

Hardly anyone disputes that Tamers need some tweaking on Siege. If you start a discussion listing clearly your proposals on your shard specific forum, you will get more supporters and normal shard players like me don't have to keep butting in to point out that a Siege player just gave his comments based on his experiences on Siege that doesn't reflect us normal folks. Muddling up discussions by players of two rulesets is not the best feedback mechanism.

 

[Guest]

Two rule sets... Yeah, Your rule set is kicking my ass. Lord knows, I do not want to change your game. I hope you have a great time where you play. It has been a long time since I trashed any one for playing where they choose.

All I want is respect. Siege folk may seem rough and tumble. We deserve a game too. If EA/Mythic ever realized the potential of Siege I would not even be talking to you. *smiles*

 

[LAH Architect]

For starters, can I suggest that you Siegers are not really helping yourselves.

If anyone visits Siege forums, there's no thread to let any visiting Devs see the most pressing fixes that needs to be done. You can have a sticky thread that's like a reminder and consolidating your valid points and arguments. It's two different rulesets. There's no way a common fix will be suitable for both. What's challenging for normal shard might be overpowering for Siege.

If changes to normal shards affect Siege, then lobby to change it for Siege. Why is the attitude 'tit for tat' ? You guys and gals now want to change Siege to affect normal shards ? Is this wise ?

It's inevitable that game changes are designed and goes into normal shards first due to majority paying customers. Next, Siege gets its tweaks. Consolidate and present your case points to get the tweaks. No point going overboard and insisting Siege changes overflow into normal shards, it then becomes a see-saw.

Have you old timers become so bitter that constructive and reasonable special changes to Siege is not considered ? Bringing attention to Siege is great but normal shard players like me are very disturbed to see what Siege has to offer in terms of players' attitude ?

 

[Vroc1015]

I think maybe one of the reasons there are more tamers on siege has to do with RoT making one of the most tedious and difficult skills to raise fairly easy.

My opinion on the whole pet ball problem is to simply turn them off on siege. As several people have pointed out, siege is a different game. Tamers are easier to build and much more profitable on siege - on any other shard sure you might kill someone. Grats you got their insurance money. But on siege you get everything, which gives these tactics a whole different level of appeal.

Vroc

 

[Nico-SP]

<blockquote><hr>


If anyone visits Siege forums, there's no thread to let any visiting Devs see the most pressing fixes that needs to be done. You can have a sticky thread that's like a reminder and consolidating your valid points and arguments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Erm isn't there a word cap in posts because if so that wouldn't make it past the FIRST bug/exploit...

 

[Guest]

Please, make that the last suggestion to me. The folks that make changes and do the magic do not read shard forums regularly. We can spill our hearts out on our forum, it will not matter.

Are you really saying we have no voice here? I call bull. I have been fighting for Siege for years. This is where we get heard. *crosses arms*

 

[LAH Architect]

Three other reasons :

(1) Lack of insurance = no 100 LRC good resist suits. This makes come-backs hard. Players will then go for the maximum damage killers to get the first shot. Like a single charge BFG. If the victim res but their regs are looted, they cannot continue fight. This is vastly different on normal shards whereby a death is only 10 seconds away from bouncing back into fight fully capable.

(2) No Passive Reveal for stealthers on Seige ?

(3) No insurance = warriors, archers don't pack good slayer totems / weapons for anti-pets apart from their one blessed main weapon.

More more .... sample for Siegers

 

[Guest]

I am glad I do not play on your shard. When you get killed, there should be a penalty

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

<blockquote><hr>


We are all aware that Seige players find it harder to fight against pets due to lower armor resist and no insurance.

...blah blah blah...

Lesson one : Patience is a Virtue !

[/ QUOTE ]

This has been a problem for a long time, we have been very patient.

You speak wisely when you encourage patience...you should be patient while we attempt to achieve a resolution for our game stopping issues. You do not choose to play our shard, and we respect that, but that also means you have no clue what you're talking about, so please refrain from trolling.


<blockquote><hr>


Have you old timers become so bitter that constructive and reasonable special changes to Siege is not considered ? Bringing attention to Siege is great but normal shard players like me are very disturbed to see what Siege has to offer in terms of players' attitude ?


[/ QUOTE ]

Well the problem is we never see fixes unless we raise a major fuss...

 

[Goodah]

<blockquote><hr>


My opinion on the whole pet ball problem is to simply turn them off on siege.
Vroc

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd vote for that!!!!

Honestly Siege was complaining about the new dragons the first day they came out and the damage they could do specially with the pet balls, forms, and PVP. We got no love.

Then someone from a regular production shard complains about a ninja tamer at full run chasing down somebody, spamming a petball and "all kill" with a greater dragon. Oh now... suddenly it makes sense enough to merit a suggestion/discussion thread on a fix.

<blockquote><hr>


My opinion on the whole pet ball problem is to simply turn them off on siege.
Vroc

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[LAH Architect]

Ah, but I am also glad to I do not play on your shard.

We both made our choices and to each their own.

The problem is now you are attempting to force your ideas ("When you get killed, there should be a penalty") onto me. If I want that, I know where to go. Your choice is not my choice. I respect your choice and you don't see me proposing to change back Siege's system to insured LRC do you ?

I have explained why game designs have to be done for majority first (biz considerations) then tweaked for minority. It's no point to get worked up over this reality and go into 'tit for tat' mode. Siege have a very loud voice and it is heard and tweaks do happen. Folks just have to accept their priority comes second, after normal shards due to resource limitations.

It would really help these resource limitations by having clear concise sticky posts on Siege Shard Forums and link them to your signature. When Devs / QA visit Siege with the aim to improve your lot, they can zoom in fast, evaluate and make changes. It would be easier to lobby for Siege specific changes rather than all shard changes. I think it's the egos speaking when Siegers feel that they know better than other shards and their's is the only correct true playstyle. Truth is : players have voted by choosing not to flocking enmass to Siege but to Trammy shards like Atlantic, Pacific, Europa where deaths have limited penalties and large guilds have huge battles with various templates.

It's my personal opinion that constant whining and shouting on Uhall will just make more players shun Siege and Devs reluctant to step inside. In the end, you might get your fixes faster but few people will remember Siege for whatever good points it has.

I know Siege players feel that they have been neglected for many years. But we have gone through many Dev Teams and neglect from years ago is not the fault of current Devs.

This thread is an open thread for feedback. There are some Siege players that are giving feedback that is true in the context of Siege but 'stretching' for normal shards. When they propose changes, they are saying change it for ALL shards and not just for Siege shard. I think the feedback is muddled this way.

 

[Goodah]

<blockquote><hr>

It's my personal opinion that...

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe that sums everything up right there.

 

[Lord_Puffy]

<blockquote><hr>

Please, make that the last suggestion to me. The folks that make changes and do the magic do not read shard forums regularly. We can spill our hearts out on our forum, it will not matter.

Are you really saying we have no voice here? I call bull. I have been fighting for Siege for years. This is where we get heard. *crosses arms*

[/ QUOTE ]

Im here with you at almost all times we have half the amount of people on siege forums as uhall... so we are active we just need to post here... So what if they cry.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

Total BS Wrote:
<blockquote><hr>

It would really help these resource limitations by having clear concise sticky posts on Siege Shard Forums and link them to your signature. When Devs / QA visit Siege with the aim to improve your lot, they can zoom in fast, evaluate and make changes. It would be easier to lobby for Siege specific changes rather than all shard changes. I think it's the egos speaking when Siegers feel that they know better than other shards and their's is the only correct true playstyle. Truth is : players have voted by choosing not to flocking enmass to Siege but to Trammy shards like Atlantic, Pacific, Europa where deaths have limited penalties and large guilds have huge battles with various templates.

[/ QUOTE ]

Siege shares all of the problems Felucca has... which is on plenty of shards (all of them?) which is pretty important.

That is all.

 

[LAH Architect]

This is the reason why I am butting in.

Siegers can lobby all they want to get attention but there are players that use your arguements which is true in 'Siege' context but not so much on normal shards. Fel on Siege and Fel on normal shards have vastly different play styles.

I call this Muddling the Waters.

Only a very few Siege players bother to clarify that their feedback and proposals is with regards to Siege. Remember when the 'Nerfers' quote a Seige player's post, your Signature and Avatar do not appear !

 

[pikon198]

down with petballs, and hire a personal staff for all things siege

 

[imported_Goron]

<blockquote><hr>

This is the reason why I am butting in.

Siegers can lobby all they want to get attention but there are players that use your arguements which is true in 'Siege' context but not so much on normal shards. Fel on Siege and Fel on normal shards have vastly different play styles.

I call this Muddling the Waters.

Only a very few Siege players bother to clarify that their feedback and proposals is with regards to Siege. Remember when the 'Nerfers' quote a Seige player's post, your Signature and Avatar do not appear !

[/ QUOTE ]
But you must understand we need to come to Uhall and pretend to be trammies to get the Devs to listen to us.

 

[Guest]

Summary:

1. players should have a timer on petball usage, 5+ minutes
2. players should not be able to use a petball in animal/necro/spellweaving forms.
3. petball summoned pets should be confused, "peaced", or otherwise nonaggressive and unresponsive to commands for 1 minute after being summoned.
4. logging out/in sends the pet to the stable, should not be a replacement for petballing.
5. Using a petball should be slow, similar to mounting an ethy, and with a distinctive animation or words.
6. pets should not be able to cast flamestrike from 3 screens away. They should be limited the same way players are.
7. discord/peace should flag a player aggressive.
8. petballs should be cursed, and should weigh 5 stones to facilitate stealing.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

This is the reason why I am butting in.

Siegers can lobby all they want to get attention but there are players that use your arguements which is true in 'Siege' context but not so much on normal shards. Fel on Siege and Fel on normal shards have vastly different play styles.

I call this Muddling the Waters.

Only a very few Siege players bother to clarify that their feedback and proposals is with regards to Siege. Remember when the 'Nerfers' quote a Seige player's post, your Signature and Avatar do not appear !

[/ QUOTE ]

Alrighty, then... to prevent some misunderstood quotation, caused by the lack of ability to follow a thread -
I play on Siege, and I think that petballs should not be able to be used while in animal form/hidden, and that there should be a timer (seconds) in between petball usage.

Thanks!!!

 

[imported_dexdash]

i cant keep up with this tread anymore and i wont even try i agree with people like goron small fixes will go a long way, no need to destroy slow pet balls a little (seconds) do somthing to animal form with reguards to pet balls or taming slots. all i need to be happy is to have an even chance of getting away from pets no more. leave pvm where it is. 5 min timer? yuk

 

[imported_Sarphus]

Siege players are probably about 2% of the playerbase, but 40% of the stratics base. That might have something to do with it.

The devs would be grossly irresponsible to nerf 98% of their players because 2% got really upset. All statistics are estimated, of course.

 

[Lord_Puffy]

<blockquote><hr>

Siege players are probably about 2% of the playerbase, but 40% of the stratics base. That might have something to do with it.

The devs would be grossly irresponsible to nerf 98% of their players because 2% got really upset. All statistics are estimated, of course.

[/ QUOTE ]


ya ok, then you woke up?

 

[imported_Sarphus]

which direction do you think my estimates are off?
stratics obviously has a large population of siege ppl...
siege is obviously a small portion of UO

btw, I'm a siege player among other things.

 

[Guest]

I sincerely hope we don't get some watered down fix like last time, simply to please those who are more in need of an AI fix rather than the right to petball constantly.

But at the same time, I'm inclined to think that not all tamers are spamming their pet balls in PvM, simply taking care about what situations they let their pets get in to begin with. Otherwise, there would be many more vocal complaints on this thread. At least, it would be reassuring if tamers still knew how to look after their pets lol.

Wenchy

 

[Clx-]

<blockquote><hr>

Siege players are probably about 2% of the playerbase, but 40% of the stratics base. That might have something to do with it.

The devs would be grossly irresponsible to nerf 98% of their players because 2% got really upset. All statistics are estimated, of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much anything that's an issue in Siege PvP is an issue in regular shard PvP. Generally to a lesser extent, but these are still issues ruining PvP for me, and i'm not on Siege. Which makes me wonder how anyone can bare to even consider PvPing on Siege with the state it's in.

 

[Spree]

 

[Guest]

I agree.

I used my tamer's pet ball today for the first time in ages, to recover my mare from the bottom of the mine, where I had to leave her in order to ride the fresh fire beetle out.

I'm reasonably sure pet balls were never meant as a substitute for inadequate animal lore skill, or other, more orthodox means of controlling busy spawn locations, such as provocation skill.

 

[Guest]

Let's just hope we're not the only 2 tamers who do know how to work our pets hehehe.

Though as you've got vendors too, maybe you're also put off pet balls by thoughts of "not more solen questing" when you summon

I don't think I'd have coped well with stocking vendors and tamers with the stuff lol.

Wenchy

 

[Lord_Puffy]

<blockquote><hr>

which direction do you think my estimates are off?
stratics obviously has a large population of siege ppl...
siege is obviously a small portion of UO

btw, I'm a siege player among other things.

[/ QUOTE ]

not a very active one apprently... and i dont know what do you think?

 

[Lord_Puffy]

Leurocian


Are you back yet? any word?

 

[imported_Anakena]

<blockquote><hr>


1. players should have a timer on petball usage, 5+ minutes


[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, but the timer is too long : something like 30 seconds should be fine to hinder gimp tactics. Keep also in mind that at champion spawns areas, the petball can't be used at all during the two first levels.

<blockquote><hr>


2. players should not be able to use a petball in animal/necro/spellweaving forms.


[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. This one alone, would kill most of gimp tactics with the new dragons.

<blockquote><hr>


3. petball summoned pets should be confused, "peaced", or otherwise nonaggressive and unresponsive to commands for 1 minute after being summoned.


[/ QUOTE ]

No. Honestly, i thought about it a few days ago, but I rejected it as it would be the ultimate tamer nerf. What if the tamer is attacked ? He should be able to call his pet(s) and set them as defense.

<blockquote><hr>



4. logging out/in sends the pet to the stable, should not be a replacement for petballing.


[/ QUOTE ]

By logging out, the tamer is already a sitting duck during the process. Pet AI is such a disaster nowadays that one can legitimately ask where the "I" comes form. Some places are completely unreachable nowadays without using such tricks. Furthermore not everyone has his pets on petballs and it is sometimes the only wayt to retrieve them.

<blockquote><hr>


5. Using a petball should be slow, similar to mounting an ethy, and with a distinctive animation or words.


[/ QUOTE ]

No. This would too many consequences, also for non tamers : if you are dismounted, you will then no longer be able to use a petball to call a pet from the stables. This would increase the efficiency of dismount ganks.

<blockquote><hr>


6. pets should not be able to cast flamestrike from 3 screens away. They should be limited the same way players are.


[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. But this is a general problem with NPC. Spells are kinda stacked and delayed. The whole NPC casting should be reviewed.

<blockquote><hr>


7. discord/peace should flag a player aggressive.


[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed for discording.

<blockquote><hr>


8. petballs should be cursed, and should weigh 5 stones to facilitate stealing.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Should this be implemented, then other items should be cursed too. On a sidenote, I would have no problem to remove completely insurance.

 

[imported_Goron]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>


1. players should have a timer on petball usage, 5+ minutes


[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, but the timer is too long : something like 30 seconds should be fine to hinder gimp tactics. Keep also in mind that at champion spawns areas, the petball can't be used at all during the two first levels.

<blockquote><hr>


2. players should not be able to use a petball in animal/necro/spellweaving forms.


[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. This one alone, would kill most of gimp tactics with the new dragons.

<blockquote><hr>


3. petball summoned pets should be confused, "peaced", or otherwise nonaggressive and unresponsive to commands for 1 minute after being summoned.


[/ QUOTE ]

No. Honestly, i thought about it a few days ago, but I rejected it as it would be the ultimate tamer nerf. What if the tamer is attacked ? He should be able to call his pet(s) and set them as defense.

<blockquote><hr>



4. logging out/in sends the pet to the stable, should not be a replacement for petballing.


[/ QUOTE ]

By logging out, the tamer is already a sitting duck during the process. Pet AI is such a disaster nowadays that one can legitimately ask where the "I" comes form. Some places are completely unreachable nowadays without using such tricks. Furthermore not everyone has his pets on petballs and it is sometimes the only wayt to retrieve them.

<blockquote><hr>


5. Using a petball should be slow, similar to mounting an ethy, and with a distinctive animation or words.


[/ QUOTE ]

No. This would too many consequences, also for non tamers : if you are dismounted, you will then no longer be able to use a petball to call a pet from the stables. This would increase the efficiency of dismount ganks.

<blockquote><hr>


6. pets should not be able to cast flamestrike from 3 screens away. They should be limited the same way players are.


[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. But this is a general problem with NPC. Spells are kinda stacked and delayed. The whole NPC casting should be reviewed.

<blockquote><hr>


7. discord/peace should flag a player aggressive.


[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed for discording.

<blockquote><hr>


8. petballs should be cursed, and should weigh 5 stones to facilitate stealing.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Should this be implemented, then other items should be cursed too. On a sidenote, I would have no problem to remove completely insurance.

[/ QUOTE ]
yay, someone who agrees with me on everything! (Except a minor difference of opinion on logging out and in).

weeeeeeeeeeeee