Summoning Pet Balls, Animal Form, and Pets

[imported_Yalp]

You didn't bother to answer my question... just proceeded to lecture me.. so I'll ask it again..

Has anyone who is complaining about the petball/ninja/tamer/suped dragon made any effort to adjust their pvp TEMPLATE to see if they can counteract the petball useage?

Anyone try to adjust their TACTICS? What have individuals done to counteract what they perceive to be an exploit of pet balls by ninja/tamers with suped dragons?

I will listen to any and all lectures from any and all blowholes.. but give me an answer first please.

LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

Al Thorin calm down and make new template not only necro-mage!
I have a song for you and if you like go on madonna.com and we make some cash.

[/ QUOTE ]
I will refrain from guessing what exactly it is that you are on.

I don't play necro mage, I play a Mage Tamer, and have for 8 years.

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

I'll answer.

<blockquote><hr>

Has anyone who is complaining about the petball/ninja/tamer/suped dragon made any effort to adjust their pvp TEMPLATE to see if they can counteract the petball useage?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Why?... There is one TEMPLATE way to counteract the petball useage, that is to have ninjitsu so you can run away in animal form. As I play primarily casters using animal form would leave me defensively weak and likely to die plus hinder my offensive game.

Although that answers just what you've asked heres some extra... it worked with cu's and rune beetles too. Another avoidance for a dismount kill is to have a live mount on a pet ball but specifically with this new dragon it kills you before the dismount timer has worn off. A template that could kill the dragon would be possible if you could honor them but you can't and if slayers worked on them which they don't (when tamed that is!). Plus they can have above and beyond the skills of a player so even a template that could tank it would likely take too many hits to deal with it sufficiently, plus if the tamer saw that you were going to attempt to kill it they would likely jump out of animal form and throw extra offense your way.

<blockquote><hr>

Anyone try to adjust their TACTICS? What have individuals done to counteract what they perceive to be an exploit of pet balls by ninja/tamers with suped dragons?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, when it was hiryus I made a dexxer in to a ninja dexxer and used frog form to kill the hiryu, this doesn't work with the dragons as the dragon hits much harder and is mostly the combination of a hit &amp; breath &amp; spell landing at once that would kill you. Plus their bleed attack means you can't use bandages to effectively negate the damage.
What have I done to conteract it specific to the super dragons... requested a change to pet balls while trying as best as my patience allows to inform people of the best way that I feel will keep the soloution from affecting non related templates, so as to avoid nerfing things that aren't at fault or affecting pvm.

 

[Nerf-Herder]

<blockquote><hr>

You didn't bother to answer my question... just proceeded to lecture me.. so I'll ask it again..

Has anyone who is complaining about the petball/ninja/tamer/suped dragon made any effort to adjust their pvp TEMPLATE to see if they can counteract the petball useage?

Anyone try to adjust their TACTICS? What have individuals done to counteract what they perceive to be an exploit of pet balls by ninja/tamers with suped dragons?

I will listen to any and all lectures from any and all blowholes.. but give me an answer first please.

LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM

[/ QUOTE ]

I did answer your question. You either have to be able to out run the tamer... BIG TIME! ...or you can hope that you are a petball tamer yourself. Did you miss the part about a mage, dexxer, or even a bard usually ending up dead because anytime you stop to actually fight the tamer himself, the pet is chewing the crap out of you.

Another thing you missed. This problem is not specific to these new dragons. You can do the same crap with rune beetles, or even regular dragons or hiryus if you like. The reason that the dragons are so hot right now is because (fully trained) they are capable of tearing up a typical PvP character on a PRODUCTION SHARD who is wearing a billion dollar uber PvP suit. This didn't happen with the older pets. On Siege, it did, because we don't run around in maxed out super suits.

These tactics might be new to prodo shards, but this crap has been happening for years on Siege Perilous. The whole time, Siegers have asked for a change. Since we are basically the red-headed step children of UO, many of our concerns seem to be brushed off, or pushed back yet another publish because apparently it's more important to fix bugged floor tiles in KR.

Part of me is laughing at all the prodo peeps now falling victim to this lameness, and part of me is thankful. Because now we have the attention of the devs and we can get this fixed.

It is far overdue.

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

Running while shifted into a ninja form does not, repeat: DOES NOT, make the tamed pets move toward their target or follow the tamer any faster...

PET BALL CARRYING NINJAS DO IT!

It's real simple. The tamer "all kills" a target, then runs alongside the now fleeing target while repeatedly hitting his pet ball macro. Result: Dead Target.


[/ QUOTE ]
I fixed that for yah.

Yes, Pet balls are an issue, but so are the danged animal forms.
Yes, they arn't followers, but everyone else must use the follower rules to run at mounted speeds. Speed is one of the -very- few universal limits in UO, and it should -not- be permited to be worked around.

Even before Supers, seeing a tamer running down someone in Dog Form with a pet ball was probably the single most common tactic used.

There's two parts to that. Pet Balls, and Ninja forms. Supers are only such a concern in regards to control slots because of their power, which can be kept in check if the tamer -has- to be on foot, that's a pretty severe handicap, which, oh, hey, Ninjas get to ignore!

Not digging it, sorry.

 

[Nerf-Herder]

OK smartass. Hows about a tamer RIDING a !@#$in mare, chasing his target, while drilling his rune beetle pet ball?

NO !@#$ING NINJA FORM THERE PAL!

The super dragons aren't the only problem. This exact same tactic can be (and has been) employed by non-ninja tamers.

Ya know, some of the tactical info I have been posting is obvious, some isn't. I just hope that some lamer on your shard is reading how to do this crap and then repeatedly guns you with it. I would bet money on the fact that you have NEVER seen the working end of a well oiled pet ball machine gun.

 

[imported_Yalp]

OK I can respect that an effort was made to counteract this usage of pet summoning balls.. fair enough.

What I am missing from the discussion, is the recognition that a ninja/tamer or ANY tamer with a pet.. (no matter which pet) is a TEAM in pvp/pvm. So more than the issue of perceived petball mis use.. is the discussion that what is being proposed is going to change how a TEAM works together in the game. If this is the case.. what is the corresponding change to all TEAMS (regardless of template)and is it going to be carried out fairly and justly to all?

Where is the change in, say, a 5v1 gank squad who have assigned roles.. including one dismounting, one chasing, one casting, one hitting? Where are the voices shouting for those changes to be made as well?

The plans for pet ball nerfing are punative to ninja/tamers. hurt all tamers, and throw an advantage to non-tamer templates.

Isn't the fairer course of action one that makes an addition to the game that counteracts the ninja/tamer/petball issue? (which i do not agree is an issue, rather an effective use of in game tools). Rather than attempting to subtract a piece that affects only one template?

LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

I'm fairly sure that the reason your missing that part from the discussion is that we were asked to discuss pet balls. (Page 1, Post 1 I believe)

...Ah yeah here it is...by Leurocian:

<blockquote><hr>

At the moment, I'm more inclined to look at the summoning pet balls first and see if we want to make any changes to it. One of the main suggestions I have seen that has possibilities is to require a reuse timer for the summoning pet balls, and perhaps don't allow them to be used while in animal form.

Let's try and only discuss pet summoning ball specific changes in this thread. I'd like to gather specific feedback on them.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sadly I think it went well past that point on about page 2.

 

[Nerf-Herder]

Again, you don't need ninjitsu to pull it off. Ninjitsu just happens to be the most common way currently. You can do the same by riding an ethy or a mare and continuously summoning your white wyrm.

This tactic was never feared much by regular PvPers on production shards since are all wearing extremely high end suits. This increases their survivability to the initial burst attack.

That burst attack from new dragon is devastating. As a result, all kinds of experienced PvPers are suddenly falling victim to a problem that was not as immediately fatal just a couple of weeks ago.

 

[fred252]

<blockquote><hr>

Yes, they arn't followers, but everyone else must use the follower rules to run at mounted speeds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guess what! You use skill points to be able to go into animal form. Let's call it an intended part of the game.

 

[Nerf-Herder]

Ya, no !@#$. If they nerf ninjitsu much more, it will be like using 100 points of your template just to cast polymorph without using reagents!

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

<blockquote><hr>

it will be like using 100 points of your template just to cast polymorph without using reagents!

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, so true. Even at that you need 110 not to fail the mount speed only ones!

 

[Guest]

"Yes there is, how about because Ninjas been nerfed enough?"

What nerf you referring to? The one that made Archers do less damage with Deathstrike? Only one i can remember, and a good fix too. Was incredibly lame to be dismounted by one Stealth/Archer, just to have several more pop up slamming you with AIs/Deathstrikes to keep you from moving while they turn you into a pin cushion. Yet even after that "Nerf", there are still TONS of Stealth/Archers in every nook and cranny of Fel, waiting to Dismount you.

I've been a Stealth/Fencer since before Tram, and put Ninjitsu on my char when SE came out. (What's the rate of Stealth/Meleers to Stealth/Archers? 1 Stealth/Meleer for every 20-30 Stealth/Archers?) I see no way how Animal Forms taking 1 Control Slot will interfere with any actual Ninja, all it means is 1 less Mirror Image, no big deal. Mirror Image is primarily used to deflect physical attacks in PvP when you're readying a Bola, seeing as how you have to disarm to use a Bola, which leaves you vulnerable to physical attacks. 4 Mirror Images is still more than plenty for Ninjas, rarely do you have 4 Mirror Images out at a time due to the fact how quickly they're destroyed. Especially considering Ninjas generally don't fight in Animal Forms because we can't use specials in it, we only use Animal Form to move fast in stealth and quick get aways. Thus the 1 Control Slot requirement of Animal Form doesn't mean a damn thing to us.

You seriously use a Ninja/Tamer for PvM? What in PvM do you have to go into Animal Form to get away from so fast? You complaining about 1 Less Mirror Image? When a monster strikes a Mirror Image, it temporarily stops fighting and has to re-target, giving you plenty of time to cast another Mirror Image, thus the cap on them doesn't matter. A Tamer/Mage or Tamer/Bard is MUCH better for PvM, i seriously doubt you use that char just for PvM, when it's plainly a template built for PvP.

I'm neither supporting or against a change to Animal Forms taking a Control Slot. Just pointing out that it really doesn't matter to Ninjas.
However, Pet Balls do need a fix.

 

[imported_revenant2]

<blockquote><hr>

You didn't bother to answer my question... just proceeded to lecture me.. so I'll ask it again..

Has anyone who is complaining about the petball/ninja/tamer/suped dragon made any effort to adjust their pvp TEMPLATE to see if they can counteract the petball useage?

Anyone try to adjust their TACTICS? What have individuals done to counteract what they perceive to be an exploit of pet balls by ninja/tamers with suped dragons?

I will listen to any and all lectures from any and all blowholes.. but give me an answer first please.

LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM

[/ QUOTE ]

Tamer verses Tamer might do it.

But yeah.

With exactly the way things are now, I can't think of PVP template changes or tactics adaptations will let me solo kill a superdragon and his tamer, in any order, since the dragon will be what's chewing me apart in a few hits. Not with the pet ball and the tamer's dismount abilities working as they do right now.

One of my best dragon-killing characters has always been my archer, but he's got to be mounted to do it and he needs room to move. The tamers just bola or shoot him off his mount and then he can't manage it.. and in terrain with obstructions and with the thing teleporting on top of him, it doesn't work well anyway. He can't PVM by going toe-to-toe with stuff, and the tamer's ability to dismount ruins what he might have been able to do.

My vamp sammy dexer (assuming that he, too, has been knocked off of his paroxy dragon and has no real retreat option), might have a chance if he had a ton of pots and worked it like Dreadhorn. But, he's really, honestly, not a PVP guy. His template is set up to leech life and his weapons are set to leech mana and that balance doesn't work out for PVP. The leech amounts aren't high enough to support his mana needs in pvp.

Having said that, I'll take my sammy dexer out and deliberately try to slaughter some people and their dragons once they tone pet balls down a bit.

My sammy dexer may have enough mana to chop up the tamer while evading on the dragon, but he'll be completely out of mana in very short order and if he fails to kill the tamer fast, he'll have to switch onto the dragon to attempt to leech some mana and life back. And of course the dragon just might drop him from the git go. We'll see.

Thing is, my archer has always been preferable over my sammy dexer for like, the ancient wyrm, and these things seem more like the AW than the old dragons. The archer has better get-away-and-heal abilities since he's already standing back.

Did someone say that the new dragons do NOT have slayer vulnerability at least once tamed? Hm! That would make my sammy dexer leech a lot less than he should. And with the tamer dumping on him at the same time or maybe shooting him with a bow... yeah, I'd have to try it to see how it worked out. It may or may not.

Once again - - my sammy dexer is NOT a viable field PVP template, its a dreadhorn/monstertanker template. If he's not steady hitting his target for a ton of damage and leeching, he's got little to work with.

If there was some means to prevent tamers from dismounting you in front of these things, it would be a different world. But then you'd have a team of 2 people coming after you, dismount archer + superdragon, I guess... so hell, I donno.

 

[imported_mr.blackmage]

you would need 4/6 chiv and 40% lmc and gm med and at least 6 regens and 80 int, along with potions and your leeching methods/etc to be able to be even close to healing the damage you would be taking. Don't forget that you also have a fully functional pvp oriented player attacking you too, heh. He could just spam poison and you would die in seconds.

 

[imported_Yalp]

Yeah I did read page 1 post 1... read page 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 then 11, 12, 13, 14..

Think some key words in Leurocan's post were that he was inclined to look at summoning balls first to see IF they wanted to make changes to them. So it follows... IF they change the summoning balls... how? And IF they change them then what ELSE needs to be changed? Will changing the summoning balls HURT one template over others? or will this change require MORE changes to re-balance the re-balance which had been re-balanced?

Usually, in my mind.. when someone says IF.. it means it's NOT written in stone. Which means all sides should make their input.. not just a vocal few.

LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

OK smartass. Hows about a tamer RIDING a !@#$in mare, chasing his target, while drilling his rune beetle pet ball?

[/ QUOTE ]
Which happens. Yes.
But what you will -never- see is some tamer RIDING -ANYTHING- drilling their Super Dragon on you.

I already admited that pet balls -are- an issue. I'm simply saying they are not the -only- issue. Ever since Ninjitsu's been around, Animal Form tamers have been one of the more common tamer templates for PVP, that and stealthing archers.

Animals forms allow someone to move at mounted speeds, regardless of followers. In my books, that's a loophole when it comes to taming.
Taming has enjoyed a rather precarious ballance over the years (post Control Slots), incredible burst damage mostly controled by limited mobility. Pets were slow. If I want mobility, I use 1 pet, and ride one. I limit my DPS in favor of mobility. Even using a petball, I'm still limited.

Ninja forms bypass that requirement. They could be a 5 slot combo in play, while running at mounted speeds. Issue.

<blockquote><hr>

NO !@#$ING NINJA FORM THERE PAL!

[/ QUOTE ]
Also no Super Dragon there either

<blockquote><hr>

The super dragons aren't the only problem. This exact same tactic can be (and has been) employed by non-ninja tamers.

Ya know, some of the tactical info I have been posting is obvious, some isn't. I just hope that some lamer on your shard is reading how to do this crap and then repeatedly guns you with it. I would bet money on the fact that you have NEVER seen the working end of a well oiled pet ball machine gun.

[/ QUOTE ]
Course, it's simply no where near as effective.
Other pets can actually get killed, plus the Super Dragon has the highest DPS for any single beast, plus a high HP pooled Fire Breath.

So no, Supers are -not- the only issue, I've conceded that fact some time ago. But pet balls are still -not- the -only- issue either.

And no, I've summoned pets onto people shoot, 10 times maybe? And each time was usually for a kill shot, or to hunt down one of the obnoxious players who run in, hit someone, then do nothing but run away (%#@%'ing won't actually fight, anyone).
And I've been killed by -far- more lightning spamming mages, or moving shot archers in any single month than I have by machine gunning tamers since pet balls came out.

 

[imported_revenant2]

<blockquote><hr>

you would need 4/6 chiv and 40% lmc and gm med and at least 6 regens and 80 int, along with potions and your leeching methods/etc to be able to be even close to healing the damage you would be taking. Don't forget that you also have a fully functional pvp oriented player attacking you too, heh. He could just spam poison and you would die in seconds.

[/ QUOTE ]

The mage would have to spam lethal poison to bother my sammy dexer, and my guy did manage to retain 93.x healing so he's able to clear lethal in a few tries.

He's got no med, 40-something mana, and about 10 HP regen if I recall right.

He's quite the beast in his own way. When he's in his groove, he'll regen and leech straight through nasty poisons, and being mortaled doesn't faze him. He can hold off the DF solo for a little while (but not for real long, that thing just can't be tanked by one guy forever).

If the tamer was a dismount archer tamer, hed be pelting me with arrows.. or should I say, attempting to pelt me. 45 DCI and 120 Parry means that he might not hit so often. Hopefully. With a damn superdragon on me, I couldn't live through too much HLD.

If the tamer was a mage with a bola, that could be trouble because hes probably got magery plus eval plus med. I'm not sure that would be surviveable if he had a mage wep and had high DCI.

But I will try.

Wish the sammy dexer could evade without a timer restricting when he can and can't do it.

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

Guess what! You use skill points to be able to go into animal form. Let's call it an intended part of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]
Animal Skill Special Abilities
Grants a 20 point bonus to the stealth skill.
Grants a 20 point bonus to the stealth skill.
Increases regeneration rate. The increase is based on your Ninjitsu skill.
Increases regeneration rate. The increase is based on your Ninjitsu skill.
Inflicts low level poison whenever you strike your opponent with a non-ranged weapon.
Inflicts poison when your enemy damages you at short range.
Increases movement speed.
Increases movement speed.
Increases movement speed and grants a bonus to both your hit chance and maximum hit points.
Increases movement speed and grants a bonus to both your hit chance and maximum hit points.
Increases movement speed and grants immunity to low level poisons.
Increases movement speed and regenerates stamina quickly.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there appears to be more than just speed being given by the use of skill points, namely special abilities.

Now, yes, there's 2 that are nothing but mounted speed, which is why they are almost never used over the other forms.

I say let them go into animal form, but if you don't have the followers, the movement speed is not applied. There's other reasons to be in animal form other than speed.

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

<blockquote><hr>

What nerf you referring to?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have the time/effort/patience to look through patch notes so I may be a little off here but I'm fairly sure focus attack has been toned down, death strike has had numerous changes, ki attack was changed, suprise attack was changed, backstab was changed, wolf form was changed. Oh actually forget wolf form unless there was something else that was a fix not a nerf for the hp being added on when you went in/out.

That (if those from memory) are right would leave 3 spells? That haven't been touched and thats possibly because their not offensive.

<blockquote><hr>

Mirror Image is primarily used to deflect physical attacks in PvP

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to disaree with ya there it's a very effective pvm move. Just ask Travesty.

<blockquote><hr>

Thus the 1 Control Slot requirement of Animal Form doesn't mean a damn thing to us.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not actually talking about stealth ninjas.

<blockquote><hr>

You seriously use a Ninja/Tamer for PvM? What in PvM do you have to go into Animal Form to get away from so fast? You complaining about 1 Less Mirror Image?

[/ QUOTE ]
I've answered this so many times already. Yes I do. It's not just for getting away from things fast but in that way I use it in doom when I need to get away from lich lords, the reason I need to do that fast is because I need to get back to vetting my pets. I also use cat/dog/frog/serpent/llama (being the only one that I use for mounted speed only)/wolf/ki-rin &amp; reptalon. I don't use mirror images as my character is a tamer and usually at full followers, I see plenty of people who do use them on ninja/dexxers.

<blockquote><hr>

A Tamer/Mage or Tamer/Bard is MUCH better for PvM, i seriously doubt you use that char just for PvM, when it's plainly a template built for PvP.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not a case of whats best for PVM, I have other characters that are best for what I do in game. That particular character is one I won't scroll out, the only time I take that character to fel is checking destard/wind/demon temple for better dragons. (&amp; on other templates during some events) It's not at all built for PVP, I wouldn't build a character for PVP that had less than 120 weapon skill 120 resist for a start.

<blockquote><hr>

Just pointing out that it really doesn't matter to Ninjas.

[/ QUOTE ]

It does to me.

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

<blockquote><hr>

Think some key words in Leurocan's post were that he was inclined to look at summoning balls first to see IF they wanted to make changes to them. So it follows... IF they change the summoning balls... how? And IF they change them then what ELSE needs to be changed? Will changing the summoning balls HURT one template over others? or will this change require MORE changes to re-balance the re-balance which had been re-balanced?

Usually, in my mind.. when someone says IF.. it means it's NOT written in stone. Which means all sides should make their input.. not just a vocal few.


[/ QUOTE ]
How about this one: IF YOU emphasize different parts of SOMEONE ELSES POST you can change the way it was MEANT to sound.

IF you emphasized the word was in the first sentance you could say that he is no longer inclined to do anything, which after reading 14 pages of this bs I wouldn't be suprised if that was now the case.

*sighs* This thread is so far beyond ******** now.

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

<blockquote><hr>

Correct me if I'm wrong

[/ QUOTE ]
<blockquote><hr>

Now, yes, there's 2 that are nothing but mounted speed, which is why they are almost never used over the other forms.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your wrong.

As the other animal forms that move at mounted speed don't have 100% success chance even at 120 ninjitsu skill and llama and ostard are covered (for 100% success) by 110 ninjitsu skill (actual number is something like 109.5) it is they that are used more for reliability.

 

[Guest]

Heh, sounds like my friend, Urania, who quit UO awhile back. She had a Macer with 120.0 Macing/120.0 Parry/120.0 Resist who wore a 70's Suit with 45% HCI/45% DCI with 20+ HP Regen, and she would use +Necro equipment to go into Moloch Form for 15 HP Regen more, used a nasty Diamond Mace too.

She was practically impossible to kill solo, or even with 2 or 3 people. With the 25% more damage from Moloch Form (Which doesn't count towards the Dam Inc Cap) she hit way too hard to stay close to for long, and with her 120.0 Macing/120.0 Parry/120.0 Resist/45% DCI she was tough as hell. Plus whatever damage you dealt she'd likely regen it in a few secs, considering she had close to 40 HP Regen in Moloch Form, and had 150 DEX for 4 sec heals with bandies. Even with Mortal Strike she regenerated Health way too fast and blocked/dodged way too much to kill her solo. Her only weakness was her mobility, she couldn't outrun a mounted person. But was still funny watching 3 Mages at Brit Gate trying to take her down with Flamestrikes and her just shrug them off and laugh at them. Those Mages quickly started screaming when i threw Bolas at them, then i stood back laughing my ass off watching her tear them apart. This was before they capped HP Regen at 18 on Suits.

 

[imported_revenant2]

Wow that does sound great...

My guy does not have max HCI if there's none on the weapon. Weapon-dependent, he'll lightning strike a fair bit to make up for it. If he's leeching properly (PVM) he'll get much of that mana back but yeah. And he doesn't carry resist.

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Correct me if I'm wrong

[/ QUOTE ]
<blockquote><hr>

Now, yes, there's 2 that are nothing but mounted speed, which is why they are almost never used over the other forms.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your wrong.

As the other animal forms that move at mounted speed don't have 100% success chance even at 120 ninjitsu skill and llama and ostard are covered (for 100% success) by 110 ninjitsu skill (actual number is something like 109.5) it is they that are used more for reliability.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, -almost- never used. Sorry, not wrong.
I rarely see a PVP're in llama or ostard form. Once in a blue moon, I'll see one running away in one of the two forms, but -most- of the time, they are using other forms.

 

[LAH Architect]

<font color="blue">I think Tamers should be banned from Fel because tame/lore takes up only 240 points at most and plus any other skills in combination = overpowered ! We are very desperate for PvP to just remain Dexers vs Mages. Look , we are so desperate that we will even sacrificed our ethics and go all-out to pressure the devs to nerf other's templates and playstyles. Tamers should remain as Trammy Twinks that are ATMs in Fel for true PvPers' convenience !</font>

OMG, I killed 10 players in Despise solo !

We need your support to keep whining ! We are indeed winning the battle to nerf Tamers so far. Look, we managed to start a popular post " Our Uber Post " and the devs took the bait and started their own official thread here !

Now, the devs will find it very hard to backpedal and do nothing. Tamers will be nerfed ! Thank goodness all the attention is there, I don't play those gimpy templates, all nerfs will benefit me and I will win more !

 

[Guest]

lol

the new dragons are pretty sick though. but the template is what makes them sick. stealth is a stupid skill, anyway. they should just get rid of stealthing.

im not sure if it has been mentioned, but we also need a fix to the whole pet logging out once you're dead thing. the ability for a tamer to log out to save their pet is ridiculous. when you are dead, you shouldn't be able to save your pet from logging out. what I propose is if you are flagged on another player, your pet will not log out with you.

 

[rsinbad]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

nerf this, nerf that and take the fun out of the game and kill pvp... why? because some people cannot improvise against some tactics. Well, I am not much of a pvp person at all and I shouldn't care about it but I do care for the sake of the game itself. Instead of nerfing this and that developers should look into the ways of preventing exploit users and speedhackers. Bah

[/ QUOTE ]


You said it yourself you shouldnt care so go back to your non pvp gold cursor and butt out of our buiness I mean srsly....



[/ QUOTE ]

Just because I said I don't PVP much doesn't mean that I don't pvp at all. I spawn with my guild and most of the time I engage in spawn defense. besides it is a free country to state ideas eh?

What I meant with my post is that there are more important issues in game that should be considered other than this. If you are a pvper you would understand what I mean if you came upon peeps that are using speedhacks and skipping while you are chasing them. I bet I could find 100 people or maybe more that would complain about the same problem.

Nerfing animal form or ninja tamers or new greater dragons doesn't fix the real problem. It would just fix those-who wouldn't improvise against smart tactics- peeps' problem. That's my opinion.

 

[imported_lubertdas]

I'm about to lose it too. It's exceedingly puzzling to me that this is the thing that's got the primary attention for a fix. It's baffling to me that this has created so much of a frenzy -- yet doesn't appear to be a rampant problem. I mostly play in Felucca on Baja and PvP pretty much the whole time but have yet to be so affected by this HORRIBLE!OUT-OF-CONTROL!EXPLOIT!ABUSE! that it justifies the kind of "fixes" that are being proposed here.

There are perhaps two or three players on Baja that use this stealth, petball, all kill tactic of PvP and yes, people die. But as in any situation where one has to rely on one's wits, I adjust my defensive tactics by either changing to a character more likely to withstand this type of attack (and yes, I do survive quite often) or coordinate with other player(s) to kill the tamer and/or pets. This has resulted in much success to a point where the tamer is discouraged from continuing. You kill a tamer's pets enough times, I guarantee they'll stop.

It's only been within the past two weeks realistically that the greater dragons would have been put to much use for PvP due to bonding. This uproar began before they even were introduced to the production shards, and before this even became the new "problem". Having played for 9 years, I can tell you that this trend of hysteria about something being out of balance or overpowered has always existed. Things have been nerfed into oblivion..

I don't see how animal form should take a follower slot simply because the skill has been combined with another for tactical advantage. This will spill over into having a larger impact on the ninja skill &amp; template. In all my years experience of the impact and often negative consequences of "fixes" aka nerfs, I have concerns that changes made will not bring a reasonable solution. Changes have been made to address things on a immediate gratification basis and don't seem to be considered for long term.

It's almost laughable to hear people get so worked up over something which in the larger scheme of things is rather insignificant. But the masses are clamoring and must be sated.

<blockquote><hr>

I have to hold my head to keep it from exploding! And I think my tongue to prevent it from getting me banned!

A few pvpers complain about a new suped dragon/pet ball usage in fel and there's already efforts to collect ideas to NERF it... OMG! Can this truly be standard operating procedure for this game????

For every ONE person complaining about the ninja/tamer/stealther/dragon/petball issue.. there are 1000 who have NO ISSUE with it at all!

---edited for content

Change your tactics.. change your resistance, get a dragon slayer, change your template to handle the rare occassions you might run into a tamer w/ a supped dragon in Fel..

LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Al Thorin]

Well, there's 2 sides to that coin.
Tamers havn't been a serious issue for a long time, and even now, they are hardly the plauge people make them out to be.

I think some of the issue arrises from;
A) Being killed by a Mob. Many PVP'rs have this thing against PVM, and getting killed by a mob that's commanded by a player is akin to a Miner getting ganked by 10 PK's in their eyes. It's an unnatural abomination as far as they are concerned.
B) There are many situations where once targeted, you -will- die. This isn't a 5v1 gank situation, just the tamer and their pet, with the right situation, and you die. Of course, there are some people out there who can manage, but they are usually exceptions.

Now, A is mostly nothing real, it's like the Tram vs Fel debate, pointless.
B on the other hand, is harder to gauge. There's almost always been situations where a good tamer is pretty much king of 1v1ish, which is why they've never been considered a true PVP template. But it seems more recently, there's methods and tactics available where even someone with little experiance or skill as a tamer can rely on certain crutches and tactics, and templates to get 'cheap' kills.

I still maintain that a good PVP Tamer -should- be unmatched 1v1, but that should be reliant on skill, not flaky game mechanics.


End of the day, there is still no plauge, but there -is- some pretty cheap tactics available, which not only rub salt onto an open wound, but is also a slap to many PVP'rs faces.

Much of this issue is based off opinions that tamers do -not- belong in PVP, cause it's 'PVM', and should be easy to counter with any PVP template. I don't subscribe to that belief, and I enjoy taking double the insurance from my targets.
But then, I don't have Stealth, Ninjitsu, Hidding or Archery. I've always stood and fought openly, and died when outmatched.

 

[Stigmatas]

<blockquote><hr>

they should just get rid of stealthing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow dude, you just dont like it so get rid of it. Thats harsh. Lame.

nerf dragons, nerf stealth....nerf everything.

I hate these threads.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

they should just get rid of stealthing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow dude, you just dont like it so get rid of it. Thats harsh. Lame.

nerf dragons, nerf stealth....nerf everything.

I hate these threads.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yet you read and replied to the thread. Lameee. =)

I'm half kidding about axing stealthing all together, but stealthing is the reason we all have to pump-up our ethereals, and has since made me hate the skill. One of the reasons this thread was created, by an EA staff member, was because of this skill. So if you don't think there is a problem, then you are in the minority. The dragons, like all pets, are just pets. Unless a player gets dismounted, they are a non issue, unlesss a ninjitsu-tamer is balling. And even then, it is about the skills (and items) the player uses, and not the pets.

I didn't even say "nerf the dragons," and I really don't think they need a nerf. For me, and most tamers, Rune Beetle/Kitsune, Two Bake Kitsune, and other pet combos are still better than a new dragon in PvP, and Rune Beetle/Bake Kitsune, or Cu Sidhes are often times better than the new dragons in PvM. But when it comes to how useful a pet is, it all depends on the roll, and how much time a person is willing to find the "perfect" pet. In the "know your role" world of group PvP, one tamer with a super dragon might be better for certain situations, but other combos will more often be used.

Next time, if you don't have anything to really add, and you don't like the thread, just click the X in the top right corner and go to a thread you like better. It's fun to do, and the click will relieve stress.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<font color="blue">I think Tamers should be banned from Fel because tame/lore takes up only 240 points at most and plus any other skills in combination = overpowered ! We are very desperate for PvP to just remain Dexers vs Mages. Look , we are so desperate that we will even sacrificed our ethics and go all-out to pressure the devs to nerf other's templates and playstyles. Tamers should remain as Trammy Twinks that are ATMs in Fel for true PvPers' convenience !</font>

OMG, I killed 10 players in Despise solo !

We need your support to keep whining ! We are indeed winning the battle to nerf Tamers so far. Look, we managed to start a popular post " Our Uber Post " and the devs took the bait and started their own official thread here !

Now, the devs will find it very hard to backpedal and do nothing. Tamers will be nerfed ! Thank goodness all the attention is there, I don't play those gimpy templates, all nerfs will benefit me and I will win more !

[/ QUOTE ]

This 1st one has to be the joke of the day <blockquote><hr>

I see '4000 gold was deposited into your bankbox' last mage, ran when I summoned it back to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Since when Is 4000 Divisible by 600??? Insurance is 600gp &amp; you get 300gp. You can't get 4000 it isn't divisible by 300, you can get any of the following 3900 or 4200, but not 4k. Nice try. Story is well "ahem" taken with a grain of salt with that put in. Just another grasping at straws to get the new drags to be run of the mill like the rest. Sad
I watched 3 players the other morning Farm them for an hr, killing them left &amp; right. I know ea was a greater drag for I lored each one on my tamer sitting there watching them take them down without a hitch..... Possible a couple of close calls but never saw a death. They had a tamer waiting for the highest resist/hp that spawned.

Yes they are a lil over the top on power I'll admit that easily, but gawd don't go making up bs &amp; expect real players to fall for it as truth.

 

[Guest]

The most anti tamer post are a fake.
Why becasue everyone can write i made a tamer got to depsie and kicked 10 blues and the 3 pks.But its not true.
EA can i have a character tranfer to Eq-1 or Eq-2 or Vanguard real pve(pvm) mmorpgs wtih my tamer then i dont need to read such anti tamer post anymore!
Oneced i figured out 95 percentage of the pks on the shards are necromages wich cheat idecided to play again my tamer.To kcik them down.
On atlantic the big shard there are maybe 3-4 pvp tamer and 2 red pvp tamer is that tom much to make such wining posting only because some necromages cant solo a tamer!?
Yesterday such a necro mage got that problem wtih me and my tamer a vip pk on atlantic and at least he called 6 other vip pks to kill me but i kiled thir vip pk tamer with his cu side.They killed me but i diont care.The pks want to solo everyting like this vip pk to be the uber kings to solo everyting.Thats the problem.And nobody talk anymore aobut speedhakc cheats and autoscripting wich is the reral problem.
My Pet is not cheating.

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

<blockquote><hr>

Nope, -almost- never used. Sorry, not wrong.
I rarely see a PVP're in llama or ostard form. Once in a blue moon, I'll see one running away in one of the two forms, but -most- of the time, they are using other forms.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you wan't us to correct you if your wrong, but when we do you disregard the answer and explanation? Riiight...

 

[imported_Goron]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

OK smartass. Hows about a tamer RIDING a !@#$in mare, chasing his target, while drilling his rune beetle pet ball?

[/ QUOTE ]
Which happens. Yes.
But what you will -never- see is some tamer RIDING -ANYTHING- drilling their Super Dragon on you.

I already admited that pet balls -are- an issue. I'm simply saying they are not the -only- issue. Ever since Ninjitsu's been around, Animal Form tamers have been one of the more common tamer templates for PVP, that and stealthing archers.

Animals forms allow someone to move at mounted speeds, regardless of followers. In my books, that's a loophole when it comes to taming.
Taming has enjoyed a rather precarious ballance over the years (post Control Slots), incredible burst damage mostly controled by limited mobility. Pets were slow. If I want mobility, I use 1 pet, and ride one. I limit my DPS in favor of mobility. Even using a petball, I'm still limited.

Ninja forms bypass that requirement. They could be a 5 slot combo in play, while running at mounted speeds. Issue.

<blockquote><hr>

NO !@#$ING NINJA FORM THERE PAL!

[/ QUOTE ]
Also no Super Dragon there either

<blockquote><hr>

The super dragons aren't the only problem. This exact same tactic can be (and has been) employed by non-ninja tamers.

Ya know, some of the tactical info I have been posting is obvious, some isn't. I just hope that some lamer on your shard is reading how to do this crap and then repeatedly guns you with it. I would bet money on the fact that you have NEVER seen the working end of a well oiled pet ball machine gun.

[/ QUOTE ]
Course, it's simply no where near as effective.
Other pets can actually get killed, plus the Super Dragon has the highest DPS for any single beast, plus a high HP pooled Fire Breath.

So no, Supers are -not- the only issue, I've conceded that fact some time ago. But pet balls are still -not- the -only- issue either.

And no, I've summoned pets onto people shoot, 10 times maybe? And each time was usually for a kill shot, or to hunt down one of the obnoxious players who run in, hit someone, then do nothing but run away (%#@%'ing won't actually fight, anyone).
And I've been killed by -far- more lightning spamming mages, or moving shot archers in any single month than I have by machine gunning tamers since pet balls came out.

[/ QUOTE ]
Al thorin... you amuse me. I think the most amusing thing is that you think that this argument only came into existence after the superdragons were created... Laff. Why don't you go back and read threads from before the superdragons and I bet you will find at least one 'nerf tamers' thread for every two pages in this forum.
Superdragons are not what causes this problem. its been a problem before they came out. I don't have a superdragon, I use a rune beetle. Thus, as nerfherder says - I can still chase you mounted on an ethy or mare spamming petballs. Ninja taking a slot won't make any difference.

How thick is your skull that you can't get that in your head?
It has NOTHING to do with super dragons. I'll repeat it one more time, for your convenience: It has nothing to do with super dragons. So please, for all of our sanity, please stop talking about super dragons.

 

[Rykus]

<blockquote><hr>

Oneced i figured out 95 percentage of the pks on the shards are necromages wich cheat

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, can you stop spouting this crap all over the place? 95% of the PvP populace ARE NOT necromages. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Get a grip on reality and stop your whining about an unrealistic perception that is entirely IN YOUR HEAD. You've already made a separate thread about this and were shot down pretty hard. If it weren't against the RoC to tell someone to ESS TEE EFF YOU, I would probably pull that one out, just for you.

 

[Llewen]

I agree that pet balls shouldn't be able to be used while in animal form, and I wouldn't have a problem with something like a ten second delay on using pet balls.

For Siege, a bonded pet needs to count as your Siege blessed item. I've said this before, but I guess I'll say it here as well.

The one thing I am concerned about is it seems there are a significant number of pvp'rs who hate having pets in pvp, because they think it isn't "real" pvp. I am concerned that because they are so vocal tamers will be made useless in pvp, which would not be fair in my opinion. In my opinion tamers are just as valid in pvp as any other template.

Personally, I haven't seen many ninja tamers on my shard (Catskills), and most tamers that I've seen don't do really well in pvp, even with the new dragons. My feeling is that tamers everywhere are in danger of being nerfed for what is a very specific Siege problem. I honestly don't know what the situation is with ninja tamers on other shards.

I don't have a problem with a ten second timer on pet balls, but I would prefer if they were only made unusable in animal form so that the fix is specific to the perceived problem, and not a general nerf of tamers that really is unwarranted.

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

So you wan't us to correct you if your wrong, but when we do you disregard the answer and explanation? Riiight...

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, I accepted the answer and explanation.
Are llama and Ostard forms considered primary forms or not?
I have not -seen- evidence on my shard indicating such.

Granted, animals forms can be tough to keep track of.

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

Al thorin... you amuse me. I think the most amusing thing is that you think that this argument only came into existence after the superdragons were created... Laff.

[/ QUOTE ]
Super dragons have a specific role in this issue since their release. They are much stronger than any pet, and there's a way to run around at mounted speeds with them. It's -one- pet that -only- ninjas enjoy mobility with. Pay attention.

<blockquote><hr>

Why don't you go back and read threads from before the superdragons and I bet you will find at least one 'nerf tamers' thread for every two pages in this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, I bet I can find 1 per page depending on the time frame.
Considering it's probably the most universally hated template due to the fact that getting killed by a mob controlled by a player isn't considered PVP by many.
Go figure people whine about it.
1v1, a skilled tamer isn't fair, granted, but regardless tamers havn't become a plauge.
Please show me multiple examples where a 20 man raiding party is made up of 7 or more tamers, and I'll accept otherwise.
They have their issues, but due to -what- they are, there is -alot- of whining.
Fact is, justified or not, the -amount- of whining is -not- proportional to the quantity of PVPing tamers.

<blockquote><hr>

Superdragons are not what causes this problem. its been a problem before they came out. I don't have a superdragon, I use a rune beetle. Thus, as nerfherder says - I can still chase you mounted on an ethy or mare spamming petballs. Ninja taking a slot won't make any difference.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ahh, but ninja slots -do- make a difference, in that the singularly most powerfull pet wouldn't be able to be used in that fasion without it.
But of course, you are correct, supers are not the cause of the pet ball issue, but ninjas do -compound- the issue. There are two aspects that need to be addressed in my books.

<blockquote><hr>

How thick is your skull that you can't get that in your head?
It has NOTHING to do with super dragons. I'll repeat it one more time, for your convenience: It has nothing to do with super dragons. So please, for all of our sanity, please stop talking about super dragons.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, I'll stop talking about them -if- you can tell me how anything other than a ninja can chase someone at mounted speeds pet balling a super onto a target.

 

[imported_Goron]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Al thorin... you amuse me. I think the most amusing thing is that you think that this argument only came into existence after the superdragons were created... Laff.

[/ QUOTE ]
Super dragons have a specific role in this issue since their release. They are much stronger than any pet, and there's a way to run around at mounted speeds with them. It's -one- pet that -only- ninjas enjoy mobility with. Pay attention.

<blockquote><hr>

Why don't you go back and read threads from before the superdragons and I bet you will find at least one 'nerf tamers' thread for every two pages in this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, I bet I can find 1 per page depending on the time frame.
Considering it's probably the most universally hated template due to the fact that getting killed by a mob controlled by a player isn't considered PVP by many.
Go figure people whine about it.
1v1, a skilled tamer isn't fair, granted, but regardless tamers havn't become a plauge.
Please show me multiple examples where a 20 man raiding party is made up of 7 or more tamers, and I'll accept otherwise.
They have their issues, but due to -what- they are, there is -alot- of whining.
Fact is, justified or not, the -amount- of whining is -not- proportional to the quantity of PVPing tamers.

<blockquote><hr>

Superdragons are not what causes this problem. its been a problem before they came out. I don't have a superdragon, I use a rune beetle. Thus, as nerfherder says - I can still chase you mounted on an ethy or mare spamming petballs. Ninja taking a slot won't make any difference.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ahh, but ninja slots -do- make a difference, in that the singularly most powerfull pet wouldn't be able to be used in that fasion without it.
But of course, you are correct, supers are not the cause of the pet ball issue, but ninjas do -compound- the issue. There are two aspects that need to be addressed in my books.

<blockquote><hr>

How thick is your skull that you can't get that in your head?
It has NOTHING to do with super dragons. I'll repeat it one more time, for your convenience: It has nothing to do with super dragons. So please, for all of our sanity, please stop talking about super dragons.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, I'll stop talking about them -if- you can tell me how anything other than a ninja can chase someone at mounted speeds pet balling a super onto a target.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol kiddo, I'll respond once again the same way Nerf has everytime:
I CAN MOVE AT MOUNTED SPEED WITH A BEETLE AND KILL. I DO NOT NEED A SUPER DRAGON. I wrote that in all capital letters in an attempt to emphasize my point, because it is obviously not coming across. Super dragons are just more powerful sure, but a beetle is enough. I dont use a super dragon, I dont need one, rune beetle does fine.
Considering this has been written at least 5 times now by me and many others in direct response to your posts, I will stop bothering to write it again after this one. You are obviously too dense to understand the sitatuation at hand, and I must accept defeat: it is likely impossible to iterate a point to you, you live in some fantasy world where no matter what facts surround you, you just see super dragons.

 

[imported_Lord GOD(GOD)]

<blockquote><hr>

Are llama and Ostard forms considered primary forms or not?
I have not -seen- evidence on my shard indicating such.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the templates being discussed, yes they are.

...The tamer/ninja/pet baller template is (imo) 1 of two choices, either a mage using a bola, or an archer using the special. As both of these are played differently to (closest comparrison) a stealth/ninja/archer. A stealth/ninja/archer dismount for the purpose killing with archery not so much so that they can stay in range with animal form (which would hinder them as they wouldn't have specials). The tamer/ninjas sole purpose is to dismount and repeatedly drop the pet on them while in animal form. As the animal forms above llama/ostard do not (afaik) reach 100% success with 120 skill it would hinder them to use anything other than llama/ostard as their dismounted victim could (if the dismount timer wears off) summon a mount of their own on a ball and run off. If the ninja/tamer were to fail the animal form it would increase the chance that their target would get away.

Neither the mage or archer version of the ninja/tamer need the bonuses the other forms provide as the focus is not to maintain hits (ala a stealth/ninja/archer) but to keep the pet on them.

EDIT: I actually answered no at first as I was thinking the question out the wrong way around! Fixed it now though!

 

[Guest]

While you are at it, why not look at instant mounting on enty's, seems to me even after being dismounted and waiting for timer to allow you to remount, you still have to go thru this movement [like if you are casting a spell] to get back on your enty mount.

During this period you are froz to that spot and if attacked you get a message saying you cannot mount your ride. For ages I have wonder why we have this delay, I know it due to some change long ago in PvP, people yelled about people getting back on mounts and getting away or something.

Still with all that has been changed today and all the new skills, why not look at this again as well. Bring back instant mounting for enty like those people that ride normal mounts.

 

[Llewen]

The truth is that in pvm an advanced dexxer is still more powerful than a tamer, even with a greater dragon. The dragon might be tougher, but the advanced dexxer does more damage, and can still solo all of the peerless, and any one of the peerless, much easier than any other template, including tamers with greater dragons. Why aren't there a thousand, "nerf dexxer" threads the way there are for tamers?

As for pvp, I still say I have seen nothing to indicate to me that tamers are over powered in pvp on production shards, even with greater dragons, and ninja animal forms. Most tamers that I have seen in one on one situations with greater dragons have died, and fairly quickly. I find it hard to believe that the situation is all that different on other shards, with the exception of Siege.

But the truth is that there is a core of players who think they are 733t, and they can't stand losing to any tamer ever, period, and they won't be happy until tamers are nerfed in pvp until it is impossible for a tamer to ever win a pvp battle against them, and they don't much like to see them have any success in pvm either. The truth is, they just hate tamers, they think they are 733t, and tamers don't belong in their cool little high school clique...

But here we are in a situation where tamers are going to be nerfed on all shards due to what is primarily a Siege specific problem. The whiners are winning, which is a real shame.

 

[imported_Yalp]

Very hard to disagree with your thoughts when this is written by those who are complaining the loudest...

....Considering it's (taming (sic)) probably the most universally hated template due to the fact that getting killed by a mob controlled by a player isn't considered PVP by many......

Too bad these same people don't see the "mob" as a team.. Tamer and Pets.. TEAM... like any other gank squad...

WHY oh WHY are the dev's listening to these peeps?

LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM

 

[Llewen]

<blockquote><hr>

Very hard to disagree with your thoughts when this is written by those who are complaining the loudest...

[/ QUOTE ]
Not quite sure I understand what you are saying here. If you mean that I personally am one of the ones that has done my best to show the arguments that the 733t dexxer and mage pvp'rs are using against tamers for what they are, then I guess I'm guilty as charged. If you are saying it is because I complain about being killed by mages, or dexxers, or necros, or ninjas, or any other template you can possibly imagine, you would be wrong. I have never complained about being killed in pvp on these forums about being killed by a particular template, not even once - and it isn't because that has never happened, it happens all the time. I may have complained about being killed by cheaters, but that is an entirely different topic...

<blockquote><hr>

....Considering it's (taming (sic)) probably the most universally hated template due to the fact that getting killed by a mob controlled by a player isn't considered PVP by many......

[/ QUOTE ]
What, I misspelled "taming"?

<blockquote><hr>

Too bad these same people don't see the "mob" as a team.. Tamer and Pets.. TEAM... like any other gank squad...

[/ QUOTE ]
No more a "TEAM" or "gank squad" than a mage with a scrappers, or a dexxer with a 733t maul, or a mage with a demon. All these things are part of the template of a single player. Without the player, those things, including pets, do nothing, except die in the case of pets.

<blockquote><hr>

WHY oh WHY are the dev's listening to these peeps?

[/ QUOTE ]
Sarcasm duly noted, and it is pretty clear why the devs are listening to "these peeps", because "these peeps" whine... a great deal...

 

[imported_mr.blackmage]

you are saying a tamer with a pet is the same as a mage with a spellbook. Wow. You are silly. That is all.

 

[imported_Yalp]

No my bad.. wasn't disagreeing with your comments at all.. reinforcing them with words from a previous poster.. sorry for the confusion..


LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM

 

[Llewen]

<blockquote><hr>

you are saying a tamer with a pet is the same as a mage with a spellbook. Wow. You are silly. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually I think you will find that mage templates without taming are generally more successful in pvp than templates with taming. They are certainly more common - with the exception of Siege.

Before the devs consider "balancing" I would really like them to take some time spying on standard shards, and pay attention to how many tamers there are pvp'ing, and how successful they are relative to other templates, so we can have some concrete statistics to base decisions on, and not someone with an axe to grind calling people who disagree with them "silly".

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

lol kiddo, I'll respond once again the same way Nerf has everytime:
I CAN MOVE AT MOUNTED SPEED WITH A BEETLE AND KILL. I DO NOT NEED A SUPER DRAGON. I wrote that in all capital letters in an attempt to emphasize my point, because it is obviously not coming across. Super dragons are just more powerful sure, but a beetle is enough. I dont use a super dragon, I dont need one, rune beetle does fine.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, a rune beetle does fine. I've yet to argue that pet ball run downs cannot be done without ninjitsu.
Maybe if you'd focus a little less on the caps lock key, you'd actually be able to grasp that super dragons -should not- be able to be pet balled in that manor, and only -1- skill is permited to do so.

Pet balls need to be adressed. Fine and wonderfull. There's still one -remaining- issue that ties -very specifically- to pet balls -and- ninjitsu. Unless petballs are nerfed into oblivion, which is probably what will happen due to the level of whining, Ninjitsu and the dragon -specifically- will continue to be an issue -regardless- of pet ball limits. (short of nerfing into oblivion)

What brand are your blinders? I must avoid them with my animals, as I do not need them focused so narrowly.