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Make ilshnear felucca ruleset

Tyrath

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UO had it's issues back then, grefing over population to name a few, but my information is still correct.
A mass exodus from the game with 20 people leaving for every 1 coming in yeah those were real glory days before tram :)
 

Tyrath

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I like to go mining for saltpetre in Ilsh on my crafter, I wouldn't be going there any more if I was likely to get attacked. I know people who love pvp want to have fun too, but surely slaughtering helpless people isn't any challenge. The Devs need to find some way to get the PvP community fighting each other, with challenge and a reward. Not stuff they stole from people who can't defend themselves. A reward for having some skill.
Problem is most of the PvP community are not PvPs they are PKs with no one to PK and are bored.
 

kaio

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I like to go mining for saltpetre in Ilsh on my crafter, I wouldn't be going there any more if I was likely to get attacked. I know people who love pvp want to have fun too, but surely slaughtering helpless people isn't any challenge. The Devs need to find some way to get the PvP community fighting each other, with challenge and a reward. Not stuff they stole from people who can't defend themselves. A reward for having some skill.
Problem is that no-matter what reward they introduce everyone want's it, take FX VvV, When VvV were introduced the entire PVM horde and their grandmothers ventured to towns to get points. After a while everyone had the rewards they wanted, So therefor no one had any desire to fight over towns, and as it is now 99% of VvV is all about being able to attack people in VvV without going red, and of cause having a mount you can res without vet.
 

kaio

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
A mass exodus from the game with 20 people leaving for every 1 coming in yeah those were real glory days before tram :)
Don't forget how expensive it was to be on dialup, and how often the server crashed + you had to pay the monthly fee as well.
 

Tectop

Journeyman
I like to go mining for saltpetre in Ilsh on my crafter, I wouldn't be going there any more if I was likely to get attacked. I know people who love pvp want to have fun too, but surely slaughtering helpless people isn't any challenge. The Devs need to find some way to get the PvP community fighting each other, with challenge and a reward. Not stuff they stole from people who can't defend themselves. A reward for having some skill.
One way the devs could fix it ,open all lands to all. All they have to do is make so that Reds can only attack reds,that way land is open to all and the people that are PvP can PvP and the blue miners like yourself can mine and feel safe from attack from the PvPers.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

Great DC

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
You cant compare todays UO with pre-AoS. Its like comparing a T-model Ford to a GT40. If you havnt done fel content or pvp since then you have no idea what your talking about. Change like my idea is needed for upgrading and making the game better as a whole. If you cant look at it as a idea and just want to bash pvper's then stop posting in this thread, its not for you.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
PVP is part of the content UO offers to its players. It can be avoided by simply not going to felucca. If you choose to not go to felucca, you choose to not be able to access all the content. I fail to see the point of the powerscroll dilemma. As I try to wrap my head around it... it seems as though people want access to all the content with immunity from some of the content (i.e felucca) o_O Where else in the game is this possible? Please give me an example of one instance where in game I could get what I wanted without having to go to where I needed to go, in order to obtain it. The only thing that comes to mind is the in-game store... Would you buy the scrolls you wanted if they offered them in the in-game store?
You can go to Blackthorns and bypass doing any of the Peerless to get a Crimmy, and bypass going to the Underworld for a Tangle.

I don't or wouldn't ever "Chose" to go to Fel... fact is the prices of PS needed to work on Pets FORCES me to go there since I can't afford to pay the ridiculous amounts that they are ..... and I'm not about to .... ever. And there is no other way to get them. If there was I'd never set foot in Fel. No reason to. But since the devs think it's funny to have people get ganked there you are. I don't find it "fun" to have my character killed and 1 shot whacked when I'm fighting to keep my pet and myself alive... I find that simply annoying. It doesn't give me a thrill to do any of that. Once upon a time when I had RP reason to be fighting yes... it could be fun... but 9 times out of 10 PvP leads to drama... and I could do without that. I play to have fun... fun for me is training up my pets. What's not fun is not being able to "finish" their training and leaving them 1/2 done because I can't get the scrolls needed for them... Even if I "could" do champ spawns all day long it would take MONTHS to get the scrolls needed for ONE pet. But no I can only do a spawn once in a great while because if you do more than 1 or 2 someone will always notice and then the PKers come out like cockroaches. And there is just no stopping them. So then you have to quit doing any spawns or move to another shard where they aren't right now. But that lasts a day or two... and soon that shard is infested with Pks looking for easy targets.

And don't give me that BS about wanting PvP... they don't... If they did they wouldn't wait around to one shot kill you... They don't want a fair fight they don't want a fight at all... They simply want to take what you spent time working on. That right there is 99% of the reason why most people don't care for doing things in Fel.

And finally, I refuse to cheat in this game. I refuse to use any programs other than those that are approved... EC/Pinco's UI. That's it... trying to compete with people who can run through things like they aren't even there, jump 2 or 3 screens at a time... remove all the trees and items in the game to have clear easy targets... etc... I've seen it... we all have. I don't script or macro... and I'm not about to start. But I can't compete with those that do... Once upon a time I could pretty much hold my own and just run away... but not anymore.
 

Tyrath

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
You cant compare todays UO with pre-AoS. Its like comparing a T-model Ford to a GT40. If you havnt done fel content or pvp since then you have no idea what your talking about. Change like my idea is needed for upgrading and making the game better as a whole. If you cant look at it as a idea and just want to bash pvper's then stop posting in this thread, its not for you.
Didn't realize GT40s were that crappy!
 

callum_fitzhugh

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Usually they have people protecting them, and sometimes some are actually not bad at fighting back (and I am not that good). When they just run around and not fight back it isn't fun really, when that happens I leave them usually so they come back. I've also had them come back with their PvPers or friends and masacre me. So you'd be surprised how intense and fun it can get.
I havent read all this thread but on the whole pvp is the ultimate end point for any MMO surely? And having been a pure pvper [in another MMO not in uo] for six of the last ten years I can say that pvp beats all other content for adrenaline rush/excitement.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
I havent read all this thread but on the whole pvp is the ultimate end point for any MMO surely? And having been a pure pvper [in another MMO not in uo] for six of the last ten years I can say that pvp beats all other content for adrenaline rush/excitement.
Not everyone plays games for that reason. Many of us play to unwind and relax... socialize... enjoy the community... Build... collect... etc...


I work in Medicine... often in the Emergency Department... I get plenty of adrenaline rushes and excitement... I honestly just want to unwind when I'm home and not get stressed.
 

Coco_Zamis_DF

Lore Keeper
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Make Felucca Trammel ruleset then.
I would like to have the 1000 luck bonus for my trammie t-hunter.
Ilshenar is smaller and the pvp folks will meet faster and the facet looks more full.
 

railshot

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I havent read all this thread but on the whole pvp is the ultimate end point for any MMO surely? And having been a pure pvper [in another MMO not in uo] for six of the last ten years I can say that pvp beats all other content for adrenaline rush/excitement.
Pretty much what @MalagAste said. No, PvP is not the ultimate endpoint for any MMO. There are plenty of successful MMOs without PvP or where PvP is an insignificant afterthought. Nor it is the ultimate endpoint for every player. Like you, I spend years as a pure pvper in a different game. However, now that I am older and in a different place in life, PvP does not interest me. I work in a demanding and stressful environment. I do not need nor want an adrenaline rush from an MMO. I get plenty of that at work. I could say the same about confrontations in general. I play to relax and enjoy friendly interaction with like minded individuals. If I the game tries to force me into PvP, I will do something else.
 

Tectop

Journeyman
I still think both PvP and PvM can Coexist on the same land. If the devs would fix it so that only the Reds can only attack Reds and not Blues and like wise Blues can't attack Reds. If this was done, all the lands can can be open to all, after all we pay the same fees to play.
Just my 2 cents.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

Spartan

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
<sarcasm>
Blues cannot attack reds in Tram. Reds cannot attack blues in Tram. Would you look at that? The Devs worked a miracle!
</sarcasm>
So far we have seen ...
1. Make Ilsh Fel ruleset
2. Establish a Fel-only shard
3. Add a PvP yes/no switch

The one I vote for is the Fel-only shard. It has the best chance of success IMO.
 

Tectop

Journeyman
<sarcasm>
Blues cannot attack reds in Tram. Reds cannot attack blues in Tram. Would you look at that? The Devs worked a miracle!
</sarcasm>
So far we have seen ...
1. Make Ilsh Fel ruleset
2. Establish a Fel-only shard
3. Add a PvP yes/no switch

The one I vote for is the Fel-only shard. It has the best chance of success IMO.
The main points you missed out on my friend if they don't share the same land
Coexist being the main word

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

Spartan

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
The main points you missed out on my friend if they don't share the same land
Coexist being the main word

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
I didn't miss it ... I ignored it. Why? Because I started with the T2A release - Fel ruleset. The very same minority of players that we have talked about decided that killing resource gatherers and others who were NOT PvP oriented and equipped was a lot more fun. I was one of those folks who was singled out for extinction by a blue PK. He'd kill just so many up to turning red then wait it off and start again.

I got tired of that crap and when Tram became available I moved as fast as my pixellated legs could move me. I was maybe a month old when he started and he had a year head start on me for equipment, experience, etc. Just as today, one cannot always compete when there is a gap like that.

The PvP switch idea was ruled out then by the Devs (a whole lot of Devs ago). And thus Tram was born as UO Renaissance. And all the sheep that were around and those who just didn't wanna play in that sandbox moved. For years the PVP folks have tried to get us back to "coexist" yet I am betting they still do not and will not police their own - just as they did all those years ago.

That's why I say separate the groups. I did not say eliminate Fel on any shard however. I have tried PVP and found that I have neither the equipment nor the skills to give even a decent accounting before I dirtnap. <shrug> Some folks are just made that way I guess. Soooo, I would rather not get into that scenario again ... no matter how enticing you might think you can make it.
 
Last edited:

OREOGL

Crazed Zealot
Professional
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Campaign Patron
<sarcasm>
Blues cannot attack reds in Tram. Reds cannot attack blues in Tram. Would you look at that? The Devs worked a miracle!
</sarcasm>
So far we have seen ...
1. Make Ilsh Fel ruleset
2. Establish a Fel-only shard
3. Add a PvP yes/no switch

The one I vote for is the Fel-only shard. It has the best chance of success IMO.
Pvp in ILS would suck. The toggle switch idea is terrible, but I'd also be down for a pvp shard.
 

callum_fitzhugh

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Not everyone plays games for that reason. Many of us play to unwind and relax... socialize... enjoy the community... Build... collect... etc...


I work in Medicine... often in the Emergency Department... I get plenty of adrenaline rushes and excitement... I honestly just want to unwind when I'm home and not get stressed.
Yeah I get that totally - goodpoint.
 

Great DC

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I still think this is the best idea for felucca. Better then a fel only shard, fighting in the same facet for twenty years is old news. Adding a new facet to it would increase pvp and fun a lot. Make ilshnear great by turning it felucca ruleset!!
 

Anonymous UOPlayer

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Most posts like this are predicated on an incorrect notion: That Fel and the Fel lifestyle attracts players. Therefore Ilshenar will thrive with such a change.

If that premise were true, the following list of things also would be true.

Publish 16 never would have happened. Posts from the dev team at the time said that Publish happened because most people had left Felucca for Trammel and there was a need to balance out server loads for a greater degree. If Trammel hadn't been a success, most people never would've left, and Publish 16 never would have happened.

But it did happen.

Trammel never would have been created, because the discontent created by Fel never would have existed and thus there never would have been a need for it.

But it was. (Then see also above.)

Richard Garriott's Memorable Moment from UO would not have consisted of a realization, caused by an incident of one player harming another, that he had to think hard about the rules of the world he'd created.

But it was.
Link: Memorable Moment – Ultima Online

Starr Long would not have indicated that the creation of Trammel was necessary when he spoke at the UO anniversary party.

But he did. (There used to be a paraphrase up someplace of the talk he gave; others will remember it though not all will remember it.)

Siege and Mugen would be the most-populated shards in UO because people would like to play that way.

But they are not.

There never would have been a need to have the Siege housing gimmick as people would have played there without it, because they liked to play that way.

But there was.

The Fel Abyss spawns would be crowded with folks doing them. (The undead one in particular has a lot of cool content and good rewards.)

But they're not.

There wouldn't be posts on Stratics complaining that VvV was dead, because people would jump at the chance to PvP.

But there are those posts.

Games that came out post-UO that had more of a Fel type environment would be prospering, whereas games that came out post-UO that had more of a Tram type environment would be failing.

But that's not the case. Shadowbane is dead. Darkfall has around 3,400 likes on facebook;

Darkfall Online

Everquest has around 66,000;

EverQuest

UO has around 28,000.

Ultima Online

(Facebook likes aren't a perfect indicator of a game's popularity but it's a much better metric than individual posters.)

No likes for Shadowbane because it died.

I found a Facebook page for a free shard! Number or likes: around 3,800.

I found a Facebook page for another free shard, specifically dedicated to the Second Age era. Number of likes: around 1,700.

There wouldn't be very angry posts on Stratics calling for a Fel-only shard, because everyone would be playing in Fel to start with! But there are such posts.

Felucca only shard.

Finally, Fel would be so popular on its own that threads like these wouldn't exist. Ilshenar would've been made Fel-only a long time ago, perhaps even at the time of its creation. It wasn't made so and it hasn't been made so since, and why? Because they knew they'd just be making a dead facet.

I could go on and on but that's enough for now. The upshot of all this is clear: A Fel rules Ilshenar would be a dead facet.

Now of course the poster could've just wanted Ilshenar to be Fel rules as a personal preference. I can't counter that save to say that in this instance, your personal preference would be bad policy for the game. I'd like to think good policy for the game trumps your wishes.

There was a time when most players would see posts like these and just let them pass by, but I'm glad that time is gone. In not responding to posts like these we run significant risks of letting intense opinion be mistaken for popular opinion.

I don't expect to post in this thread again, however, because it'd be pointless.
 

Great DC

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
That's mostly false, since almost every free shard that is played is because felucca died out on osi back then. Second thing is instead of creating a different facet for trammel they copied the felucca map which was also a huge mistake. I have talked to hundreds of players that play on those free shard that would love to come back to OSI if they made a bunch of good changes to felucca. Also you seem to think cause you don't go there the facet would be dead, another false statement. With todays global loot and ilshnear dropping splintering weapons everywhere, there would be tons of people trying to farm them with the fel luck bonus. The biggest exodus to this game was when they made trammel and ruined most of the pvp then. yes more "carebears" started playing then but they are not the better players that this game would have thrived on like the felucca players. There was nothing but some balancing issues back then which caused pvp to be more ridiculous, like the hally mages and things. If they just fixed those balancing issues everything would've been fine and we wouldn't need 6 facets of trammel to one felucca facet. But the simple fact that felucca hasn't gotten a single new drop in 16 years is completely ridiculous. I know for a fact that if more things dropped in fel only that you would see a steady rise in the population of the game. This fake news that trammel saved UO is just false.
 

Syncros

Adventurer
If Trammel style ruleset never came along then UO wouldve been looking like all the dead shards do atm 15 years ago. Also you would know everyone that pvp's because its so dead ( which most already do even on ATL because they been in each others guild one time or another).

I dont know what would revive Fel but new items that only pvpers/pk's get and control (*coughs* PS's) only makes them richer while ruining other players fun.
 

whitesmith

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
I want my pets un-nerfed
When my pets accidentally attack me, or I attack it, with my luck mr suit, no dci, no hla, nothing! basically, I stand there being tickled by my pet for good 10 seconds before I realize, oops!
How effing useless pets have become....
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I dont know what would revive Fel but new items that only pvpers/pk's get and control (*coughs* PS's) only makes them richer while ruining other players fun.
So we're back to parroting this easily debunked argument again, are we?

I don't know how many times this has to be said:

1) 120's are not guaranteed. You may get some from multiple spawns in a row (happened to me/some guildmates the other day) or none at all for x # of spawns.
2) The pvp'ers cannot be everywhere, and people like @North_LS can do spawns without a hitch. I've even seen some guys on EJ accounts do spawns...well, until I killed them, anyway. Haven't seen them at a spawn since. I went to protect each one and got the "cannot protect EJ players" message, so I did my civic duty before calling in my guildmates to finish it up. Normally I don't kill random blues at spawns, but when they can't receive scrolls, I have no issues doing it.
3) There are FAR more lucrative options for making gold in Trammel...which isn't surprising given how much content it's been given over the years, especially compared to Fel. At the top of the list, you have Shadowguard (which is, admittedly, a bit of a grind) and EM events (which average an hour, and give you a chance at an item that generally sells for 100m minimum.)
4) It's 2018. Long gone are the days where multiple zerg guilds controlled the scroll market on each shard. Some of the pvp'ers don't even GO to champ spawns.
 

railshot

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
So we're back to parroting this easily debunked argument again, are we?
Your opinions or personal accounts do not debunk hard data, namely pricing changes. Just because it seams somewhat ridiculous and fruitless to continue the discussion after claims like "we are not after scrolls" or "we don't like to kill PvMers", does not mean you have convinced anyone. It just means reasoning and logic have left the building.
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Your opinions or personal accounts do not debunk hard data, namely pricing changes. Just because it seams somewhat ridiculous and fruitless to continue the discussion after claims like "we are not after scrolls" or "we don't like to kill PvMers", does not mean you have convinced anyone. It just means reasoning and logic have left the building.
What hard data? Hard data you dreamed up because you personally do not go to Fel? I do. I know what goes on there. I know when spawns are being done, because I check them. On the shards I play (LS and Atl/Origin/Legends when I'm in the mood to do an EM Event), the characters I use are scrolled. I don't make new chars, for one reason: I am way too lazy to have suits made (or make them myself.) If I wanted to make new chars, I could just have the scrolls transferred, because I have a decent stockpile.

If you REALLY think it's so hard to do spawns (it isn't, I've done several over the past few days and only been raided once, which ended badly for the other guild), why don't you do some in t2a and count how often you see anyone? btw, the spawn I got raided on? It was Destard, which is a well-checked area.
 

BeaIank

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
I am not very keen on this idea, but I would be all for making Oak's spawn fel ruleset with scrolls and skull drop.
Fel T2A Oak's terrain is awful and boring to do. This would be a major quality of life improvement for that spawn!
 

Lord Frodo

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
If Trammel style ruleset never came along then UO wouldve been looking like all the dead shards do atm 15 years ago. Also you would know everyone that pvp's because its so dead ( which most already do even on ATL because they been in each others guild one time or another).

I dont know what would revive Fel but new items that only pvpers/pk's get and control (*coughs* PS's) only makes them richer while ruining other players fun.
If Tram never happened you would not be here worrying about it anyway, UO would have closed down.
 

railshot

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
What hard data? Hard data you dreamed up because you personally do not go to Fel?
Did you actually read what I said? Let me repeat it, now with helpful highlights - "Your opinions or personal accounts do not debunk hard data, namely pricing changes."
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Did you actually read what I said? Let me repeat it, now with helpful highlights - "Your opinions or personal accounts do not debunk hard data, namely pricing changes."
...and why did those prices change? It was NOT because of the pvp'ers. It's a direct result of the pet revamp and everyone wanting full 120's for their pets. Next?
 

CovenantX

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
What hard data? Hard data you dreamed up because you personally do not go to Fel?
It's the most obvious thing in the world.

Trammies can't get over Fel dropping an item that has been the same for 16 years (and counting) while 90% of Trammel content is unused, even though it drops things worth enough to buy several of the most expensive powerscrolls.

Trammies.... you're going to have to either learn pvp, so you don't lose "every" spawn (even their excuse isn't believable....) or you need to stop being lazy AF and farm something you can do without risk and trade/sell so you can afford powerscrolls.

If you don't want to?

Well, that's the kind of mentality that Trammel created... you're welcome.
 

Anonymous UOPlayer

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
That's mostly false, since almost every free shard that is played is because felucca died out on osi back then. Second thing is instead of creating a different facet for trammel they copied the felucca map which was also a huge mistake. I have talked to hundreds of players that play on those free shard that would love to come back to OSI if they made a bunch of good changes to felucca. Also you seem to think cause you don't go there the facet would be dead, another false statement. With todays global loot and ilshnear dropping splintering weapons everywhere, there would be tons of people trying to farm them with the fel luck bonus. The biggest exodus to this game was when they made trammel and ruined most of the pvp then. yes more "carebears" started playing then but they are not the better players that this game would have thrived on like the felucca players. There was nothing but some balancing issues back then which caused pvp to be more ridiculous, like the hally mages and things. If they just fixed those balancing issues everything would've been fine and we wouldn't need 6 facets of trammel to one felucca facet. But the simple fact that felucca hasn't gotten a single new drop in 16 years is completely ridiculous. I know for a fact that if more things dropped in fel only that you would see a steady rise in the population of the game. This fake news that trammel saved UO is just false.
*sighs* This is why I so rarely reply because there's very little new to say. I could re-do my entire post but it's there for all to read. The actual evidence is pretty clear and it doesn't support your side. I can't help it that you and your purported "hundreds" of friends don't like it. Or that you don't consider most of us to be "the better players." A post like this for the other side would have been deleted by Stratics by now.
 

celticus

Crazed Zealot
UNLEASHED
I want my pets un-nerfed
When my pets accidentally attack me, or I attack it, with my luck mr suit, no dci, no hla, nothing! basically, I stand there being tickled by my pet for good 10 seconds before I realize, oops!
How effing useless pets have become....
Agree.. What you are saying is blatantly obvious. This is NOT fake news as some people state. Same experiment we did with a zero dci tamer suit, on one of our guildies, and tried to kill him with every pet in the stables (one by one) : Guess what no damage to make any difference. Only one pet did minimal damage after debuffing him. It he was a pvp temp being attacked by a tamers pet he would have killed the tamer 20 times over, and not afected by the pet at all. The pet pvp damage needs to be tweaked up a little bit...
 

TB Cookie [W]

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
If Tram never happened you would not be here worrying about it anyway, UO would have closed down.

No.

It would have been 10 times more successful, pandering to the weak, only makes everything weaker and it's a race to the bottom.
Who can be the biggest victim?
Who has it the hardest? Let's compete with victim stories.
How can we get everything on a plate and never have to work for anything?
What happens when you forget how to do anything for yourself?

Here is my evidence to suggest otherwise.

Eve Online - Wikipedia

Eve Online is still held in the highest gaming regards.

UO - used to be regarded like this, but Trammel killed it off.

UO should still be held in the same regard as Eve Online.

Highly PvP, Single Felucca style shard ruleset. Bring back proper games.

"The game is renowned for its scale and complexity with regards to player interactions – in its single-shard game world, players engage in unscripted economic competition, warfare, and political schemes with other players.[3] The Bloodbath of B-R5RB, a battle involving thousands of players in a single star system, took 21 hours and was recognized as one of the largest and most expensive battles in gaming history.[4] Eve Online was exhibited at the Museum of Modern Art with a video including the historical events and accomplishments of the playerbase.[5]

Due to the game's focus on freedom, consequence, and autonomy, many behaviours that are considered griefing in most MMOs are allowed in Eve. This includes stealing from other players, extortion, and causing other players to be killed by large groups of NPCs.[44]

Only malicious, prolonged and concentrated harassment where no material gain is involved and a few other actions are considered to be illicit griefing by the game's developers.[45] Escaping retribution by CONCORD, the NPC space police force that punishes criminal activity in higher security solar systems,[46] for criminal actions is also forbidden, as CONCORD is intentionally designed by game mechanics to be unstoppable."
 

celticus

Crazed Zealot
UNLEASHED
Agree.. What you are saying is blatantly obvious. This is NOT fake news as some people state. Same experiment we did with a zero dci tamer suit, on one of our guildies, and tried to kill him with every pet in the stables (one by one) : Guess what no damage to make any difference. Only one pet did minimal damage after debuffing him. It he was a pvp temp being attacked by a tamers pet he would have killed the tamer 20 times over, and not afected by the pet at all. The pet pvp damage needs to be tweaked up a little bit...
The problem with making the pets more powerful at pvp, however would be that PKers then would start PKing with pets even more easily, given the right pvp tamer template. Aw well ..
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
*sighs* This is why I so rarely reply because there's very little new to say. I could re-do my entire post but it's there for all to read. The actual evidence is pretty clear and it doesn't support your side. I can't help it that you and your purported "hundreds" of friends don't like it. Or that you don't consider most of us to be "the better players." A post like this for the other side would have been deleted by Stratics by now.
No, it wouldn't. See also: Anything Frodo posts.

As a pvp'er, do you know what I would do with my time in this game if there was actually something to do in Fel other than run a bunch of uncontested spawns? pvp for the entire time I'm logged in, just like I used to.

Look at all of the content Trammel has been given. Do you know how often it's done? On LS, I can tell you barely anything is done: you only find people at Navrey and the Crazed Mage, just to train their pets. All that content and people pretty much only go to 2 places. Navrey doesn't even have good loot.
 

railshot

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
...and why did those prices change? It was NOT because of the pvp'ers. It's a direct result of the pet revamp and everyone wanting full 120's for their pets. Next?
We've been over this multiple times. If you don't understand the role of restricted supply in price formation, not much I can do beyond what has been said already.
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
We've been over this multiple times. If you don't understand the role of restricted supply in price formation, not much I can do beyond what has been said already.
Dude, I know how economics works. It's quite clear that you don't, since you refuse to accept the REAL reason for the increased price of scrolls. Once again: IT'S NOT BECAUSE OF THE PVP COMMUNITY. If we really wanted to increase the price of scrolls before the pet revamp (or decrease them), we could have done it whenever we wanted. Did it ever occur to you to examine WHEN the price of scrolls went up?

Here's an idea for you, if you're so concerned about the price of scrolls: stop *****ing about it on Stratics, and go farm them for yourself so you can lower the prices. You'll be able to get plenty of them.
 

railshot

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Dude, I know how economics works.
Clearly not. The pet publish is the reason for the initial price increase (increased demand). PvPer stranglehold on the scrolls is the reason it never went down as many PvPers argued here a year ago. This is restricted supply. Free market always reacts to changes in demand by increasing supply. Monopoly does not.
 

TB Cookie [W]

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
PvPer stranglehold on the scrolls is the reason it never went down as many PvPers argued here a year ago. This is restricted supply. Free market always reacts to changes in demand by increasing supply. Monopoly does not.

Give me proof, give me evidence of this PvPer stranglehold.
Name the PvPers/Guilds commiting this heineous crime. They must be really reknowned game-wide if they have been able to achieve such a stranglehold?
Name them and stop trotting out this tired old line that exists only in your imagination.


To my knowledge, no-one is stopping anyone on Europa.
Drachenfels is completely dead, and players can spawn as much as they want.
Same with 90% of shards?
Atlantic, they are hardly stopping you there, their average PvP ability is so low.


Or is the truth, that people are not even trying?
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Clearly not. The pet publish is the reason for the initial price increase (increased demand). PvPer stranglehold on the scrolls is the reason it never went down as many PvPers argued here a year ago. This is restricted supply. Free market always reacts to changes in demand by increasing supply. Monopoly does not.
Name the pvp'ers and their guilds then, and link for these non-existent arguments about scrolls. I'll fact check.

I mean, I've done at least a dozen spawns this week alone, mostly uncontested. We've pulled, off the top of my head: a 120 Wrestle, a 120 Resist, a 120 Magery (or more), a 120 throwing (today), and others I'm probably forgetting. That's a VERY good week, and far from the norm.

There is currently no monopoly of PS's, and there hasn't been for some time. I'll repeat: you do not HAVE to do any champ spawns in Fel, you're just complaining to make Fel a wasteland like Trammel. Would I be correct in guessing that you don't do any of the content in the Trammel ruleset either?
 

railshot

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Give me proof, give me evidence of this PvPer stranglehold.
Name the PvPers/Guilds commiting this heineous crime.
As I just said above, basic economics is your evidence. Or are you suggesting there can be another artificial restriction on power scroll supply other than PvPers?
 

Lord Frodo

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
No.

It would have been 10 times more successful, pandering to the weak, only makes everything weaker and it's a race to the bottom.
Who can be the biggest victim?
Who has it the hardest? Let's compete with victim stories.
How can we get everything on a plate and never have to work for anything?
What happens when you forget how to do anything for yourself?

Here is my evidence to suggest otherwise.

Eve Online - Wikipedia

Eve Online is still held in the highest gaming regards.

UO - used to be regarded like this, but Trammel killed it off.

UO should still be held in the same regard as Eve Online.

Highly PvP, Single Felucca style shard ruleset. Bring back proper games.

"The game is renowned for its scale and complexity with regards to player interactions – in its single-shard game world, players engage in unscripted economic competition, warfare, and political schemes with other players.[3] The Bloodbath of B-R5RB, a battle involving thousands of players in a single star system, took 21 hours and was recognized as one of the largest and most expensive battles in gaming history.[4] Eve Online was exhibited at the Museum of Modern Art with a video including the historical events and accomplishments of the playerbase.[5]

Due to the game's focus on freedom, consequence, and autonomy, many behaviours that are considered griefing in most MMOs are allowed in Eve. This includes stealing from other players, extortion, and causing other players to be killed by large groups of NPCs.[44]

Only malicious, prolonged and concentrated harassment where no material gain is involved and a few other actions are considered to be illicit griefing by the game's developers.[45] Escaping retribution by CONCORD, the NPC space police force that punishes criminal activity in higher security solar systems,[46] for criminal actions is also forbidden, as CONCORD is intentionally designed by game mechanics to be unstoppable."
LMAO It is obvious that you were not there when EA said fix it and OSI did, they created Tram and UO flourished till AoS. But TY for the good laugh.
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
LMAO It is obvious that you were not there when EA said fix it and OSI did, they created Tram and UO flourished till AoS. But TY for the good laugh.
And what has happened since, hmm? Plenty of unused content in the Trammel ruleset, Fel long since forgotten since they threw us a bone with Publish 16, and a massively dwindling playerbase.
 

Great DC

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
This thread is not about Power scrolls, stay on topic please or ill be forced to report people.

AOS was just another reason pvp died but first it was trammel. A lot of people quit over trammel being made then itemizing it in the no danger zones killed most of the rest of it. This game is nothing but a shell of its former glory due to those changes. You guys can make up as many conspiracy theories as want about how felucca people are such evil players, none of it is true. Get a grip on reality will ya, maybe you need medication or something.
 

Lord Frodo

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
This thread is not about Power scrolls, stay on topic please or ill be forced to report people.

AOS was just another reason pvp died but first it was trammel. A lot of people quit over trammel being made then itemizing it in the no danger zones killed most of the rest of it. This game is nothing but a shell of its former glory due to those changes. You guys can make up as many conspiracy theories as want about how felucca people are such evil players, none of it is true. Get a grip on reality will ya, maybe you need medication or something.
Are you kidding me a lot of people came back because of Tram get your facts straight EA was getting ready to close UO because people were tired of the BS and told OSI to fix it and they did. You guys live in such a dream world it is almost funny if it wasn't so sad, talk about being in denial. And please be my guest and report me.
 

TB Cookie [W]

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
As I just said above, basic economics is your evidence. Or are you suggesting there can be another artificial restriction on power scroll supply other than PvPers?

I have suggested 2 things which both fit into your economics theory, you've just chosen not to see that part of the economics cycle.

You may be correct in a way- it may be about supply.

Regarding supply - you have 3 options when it comes to powerscrolls;

a. There is a low drop rate, and the supply is restricted there.
b. People are not even putting the effort in to meet the supply.
c. Bad bad people are out there actively preventing the supply, sucking it all up, creating a monopoly, a stranglehold on the market, living like crime-lords and making billions.


As someone who lives in Felucca, and does this every single day and plays with an entire largescale alliance - I can tell you option A and option B are far more close to the truth, than option C, which you have decided to go for.

If you believe it is option C - tell me who these people are?
 
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