Make ilshnear felucca ruleset

[Spartan]

Translation - the same ruleset should be in place for all of the players on a shard - or you get an unbalance in the game environment. A duel ruleset causes too much conflict in playstyles in and out of game. Especially when one side thinks the other side is getting everything.....

... <snip> ...
- and no-one is forced to pvp.

I agree on the dual ruleset causing all sorts of issues. However at one time there was ONE RULESET for all ... it's UO pre-Ren edition. Guess what? As I pointed out somewhere else, a minority of PVP folks decided that crafters, resource gatherers and PVM folks were the sheep ripe for shearing (aka dry-looting).

Sooo, as wallets walked because of this attitude and the seeming inability or "meh" attitude of the majority of PVPers, UO:Ren came out and introduced Trammel ruleset. The "sheep" fled the barnyard in droves.

Now to the "no one is forced to pvp" part. If I am in Fel and am attacked it means someone is FORCING me to compete in a manner that I know is not one I am equipped for (gear, tactics, training, etc). So I have to run or dirtnap. My other alternative to avoid PVP is to simply stay in a) Trammel ruleset or b) Fel guard zones. Again, I am forced by a playstyle where I cannot compete to play elsewhere.

Also, did I mention that Siege and Mugen ARE one ruleset? <reviews post> Nope, not until just now.

The preceding was brought to you by me, myself and I ... and we all agree on this one.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

I agree on the dual ruleset causing all sorts of issues. However at one time there was ONE RULESET for all ... it's UO pre-Ren edition. Guess what? As I pointed out somewhere else, a minority of PVP folks decided that crafters, resource gatherers and PVM folks were the sheep ripe for shearing (aka dry-looting).

Sooo, as wallets walked because of this attitude and the seeming inability or "meh" attitude of the majority of PVPers, UO:Ren came out and introduced Trammel ruleset. The "sheep" fled the barnyard in droves.

Now to the "no one is forced to pvp" part. If I am in Fel and am attacked it means someone is FORCING me to compete in a manner that I know is not one I am equipped for (gear, tactics, training, etc). So I have to run or dirtnap. My other alternative to avoid PVP is to simply stay in a) Trammel ruleset or b) Fel guard zones. Again, I am forced by a playstyle where I cannot compete to play elsewhere.

The preceding was brought to you by me, myself and I ... and we all agree on this one.

Maybe the answer was to create PvP and PvM shards at the time?
Or maybe the answer was to create Trammel, but to not allow any drops or resources there, have it as a safe haven for crafting/trading, housing etc?
No point crying over spilt milk, the decision was made, they did their best at the time, I don't dispute this.

But to over-promote the Trammel playstyle over the original gamestyle that people remember and love UO for - for the next 15 years, is a bit of a killer blow.
It means UO is never quite living up to it's real potential or being itself.

How about we try and bring it round a bit?
Give the real UO a chance?

 

[McKinneley]

15 years hey?
Just shows how big a mistake it was?
(For a certain playergroup).

Re Eve by the way, I've read reports it is picking up again, these things go in phases.
Re WoW, I and many others played it, for (8) years - we left, because it got boring - same old grind. It attracted so many people, because it was done in a HUGE way, and Blizzard really do things properly when they do them, backed by a lot of money.

Forget the Ilshenar to Felucca ruleset for a moment - how about a pure Feluccan shard with all landmasses and content?
If we just want more lucrative hunting grounds, why am I asking to be separated from Trammel?
{I want equality between players, I want to revive obsolete playstyles, I want to reset, rebalance and fix the economy, I want to promote the closest thing to the original playstyle that we can}.
How about, instead of keep pushing your viewpoint based on zero facts, we just find out?
(None of us have a crystal ball, or have any real facts on this).
Lets stop all the mudslinging, and just give us what we want?
It's no skin off your nose, or are you actually afraid we may end up having far more fun, and it may be successful?
It seems like that sometimes you know - a certain group, are just trying to force us to play in a certain way, to maintain their playstyle.

If you want a Fel only ruleset shard, then be my guest. If you want a Fel ruleset version of any particular (or all) facets, by my guest. If there are Fel versions of everything, then there need to be Trammel versions of everything (which there pretty much already is, minus Power Scrolls being Fel only). I believe that all of those Fel-based options will be 99% empty just as they are today. The vast majority of players, then and now, prefer not to play with that type of ruleset.

I played the game since shortly after launch, T2A, UO:R, & AoS when I initially quit. I was involved in Order / Chaos (as Order) and in Factions as Shadowlords and CoM. I had several characters that were Red at various times, and spent countless hours afk working off my kill hours. I firmly believe that if this game never had Trammel, it would have died a long time ago.

All games, or activities in general, get boring after you've done them for long enough. Eve, WoW, UO, DAoC, Counter Strike, PUBG, whatever. I think that PvPers are looking at pre-UO:R with rose-colored glasses and nostalgia.

Edited to fix a typo.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

All games, or activities in general, get boring after you've done them for long enough. Eve, WoW, UO, DAoC, Counter Strike, PUBG, whatever. I think that PvPers are looking at pre-UO:R with rose-colored glasses and nostalgia.
.

Lets use the nostalgia in a positive way?
Many other games are right now- once a game has survived this long - it has enough of an old customer base to use nostalgia in a good way.

I think quite a few people came back with EJ out of nostalgia.

The rest of your post, I have no comment or issues on.

 

[McKinneley]

Lets use the nostalgia in a positive way?
Many other games are right now- once a game has survived this long - it has enough of an old customer base to use nostalgia in a good way.

I think quite a few people came back with EJ out of nostalgia.

The rest of your post, I have no comment or issues on.

Hey man, you're 100% right, a lot of people came back with EJ out of nostalgia. That is exactly why I am here. I am 100% for them making a Fel ruleset shard. It can be a pre-UO:R version, or it can be a present-day version with all of the changes since that time. I would probably even create a character there myself.

I think the primary issue is that people want different things from this (and other) game(s). No playstyle should be forced onto people that don't want to participate in it. The "trammies" and "carebears" have no problem with people engaging in PvP. They have a problem with non-consensual PKing. It isn't what they're interested in, it isn't fun for them, and forcing that playstyle onto them is going to cause them to just leave. "Learn to PvP" as I've read elsewhere in this thread isn't going to be a solution, that mindset doesn't help anyone.

Perhaps they should have introduced new servers as non-PvP versions of the game back at UO:R. They decided that wasn't the way to go, probably because a lot of players were already invested in their characters and communities where they were. Regardless of the reason, it didn't happen. The best solution today is probably to create a Fel-ruleset shard (not the current one, can't remember the name), and to implement a PvP optional toggle onto the rest of the servers. Those that want to truly PvP on the current shards can do that. Those that want non-consensual PvP on current shards will have a toggle option. Those that want a Fel-only ruleset will have it. And those that want to play the PvM content can toggle PvP off and get what they want.

OR create two new shards, PvP Fel-ruleset only, and PvE Tram-ruleset only. Don't allow transfers to or from those shards. Everyone starts over on an equal footing. I don't think any of this will happen though.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Hey man, you're 100% right, a lot of people came back with EJ out of nostalgia. That is exactly why I am here. I am 100% for them making a Fel ruleset shard. It can be a pre-UO:R version, or it can be a present-day version with all of the changes since that time. I would probably even create a character there myself.

I think the primary issue is that people want different things from this (and other) game(s). No playstyle should be forced onto people that don't want to participate in it. The "trammies" and "carebears" have no problem with people engaging in PvP. They have a problem with non-consensual PKing. It isn't what they're interested in, it isn't fun for them, and forcing that playstyle onto them is going to cause them to just leave. "Learn to PvP" as I've read elsewhere in this thread isn't going to be a solution, that mindset doesn't help anyone.

Perhaps they should have introduced new servers as non-PvP versions of the game back at UO:R. They decided that wasn't the way to go, probably because a lot of players were already invested in their characters and communities where they were. Regardless of the reason, it didn't happen. The best solution today is probably to create a Fel-ruleset shard (not the current one, can't remember the name), and to implement a PvP optional toggle onto the rest of the servers. Those that want to truly PvP on the current shards can do that. Those that want non-consensual PvP on current shards will have a toggle option. Those that want a Fel-only ruleset will have it. And those that want to play the PvM content can toggle PvP off and get what they want.

OR create two new shards, PvP Fel-ruleset only, and PvE Tram-ruleset only. Don't allow transfers to or from those shards. Everyone starts over on an equal footing. I don't think any of this will happen though.

I wish I could give you 10 likes for that post...

Give me a mo, just going to call in the alliance!

 

[Lord Frodo]

I've already agreed that would be fair for players who really want that.

But are you trying to force me to play a ruleset against my will?
(Which is already happening by the way, I've just decided enough is enough now, I was prepared to take it up to a point until certain Trammies didn't stop whining about how our playstyle affects yours).

Is it really you trying to force a playstyle upon others, and not me, and you've been prevaricating all this time, throwing shade, throwing distractions in?

Would you support me in an effort to reach a better playstyle for myself and many others, that doesn't force you into anything?

No we are not because we have already asked that the DEVs put in a PvP switch so like minded people like you can still PvP but we all know that that is unacceptable to you because you know very few people will put it in PvP mode.

 

[Lord Frodo]

If you want a Fel only ruleset shard, then be my guest. If you want a Fel ruleset version of any particular (or all) facets, by my guest. If there are Fel versions of everything, then there need to be Trammel versions of everything (which there pretty much already is, minus Power Scrolls being Fel only). I believe that all of those Fel-based options will be 99% empty just as they are today. The vast majority of players, then and now, prefer not to play with that type of ruleset.

I played the game since shortly after launch, T2A, UO:R, & AoS when I initially quit. I was involved in Order / Chaos (as Order) and in Factions as Shadowlords and CoM. I had several characters that were Red at various times, and spent countless hours afk working off my kill hours. I firmly believe that if this game never had Trammel, it would have died a long time ago.

All games, or activities in general, get boring after you've done them for long enough. Eve, WoW, UO, DAoC, Counter Strike, PUBG, whatever. I think that PvPers are looking at pre-UO:R with rose-colored glasses and nostalgia.

Edited to fix a typo.

But they are not because they want a Pre UOR with PSs and Insurance. SP is to hard core for them, they want a Fel with an easy mode.

 

[drcossack]

No we are not because we have already asked that the DEVs put in a PvP switch so like minded people like you can still PvP but we all know that that is unacceptable to you because you know very few people will put it in PvP mode.

There's already a ****ing pvp switch. You have to consent to it in Trammel via guild war + you're freely attackable by people in your guild/alliance. Nobody does the former, because there's literally no need to - the pvp guilds already pvp in Fel.

You just want Fel-style pvp removed from the game on non-Siege ruleset shards. Kyronix has already told you it's not going to happen. Give up and stop trolling.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

No we are not because we have already asked that the DEVs put in a PvP switch so like minded people like you can still PvP but we all know that that is unacceptable to you because you know very few people will put it in PvP mode.

I agree very few will use that mode - because it is a very poor solution.
It would just kill the game off more, as all pvpers leave.

Again, it is a duel, unequal scenario.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

But they are not because they want a Pre UOR with PSs and Insurance. SP is to hard core for them, they want a Fel with an easy mode.

The game has moved on.

The current level of Itemisation has severely changed the game.

We can have another discussion re the current level of Itemisation.

Imagine wearing a Slither, getting a bit of lag, dying and losing it, all in about 5 seconds.

(Our pvp suits can cost 2 plat these days, and take a year to assemble).

That is not sustainable.

Would you be prepared to pvm in that scenario, let alone pvp?

 

[McKinneley]

But they are not because they want a Pre UOR with PSs and Insurance. SP is to hard core for them, they want a Fel with an easy mode.

I will admit that I don't know much about SP and how it works, other than it is a fel-only ruleset shard.

But there is a reason that the game has changed so much since UO:R. Other games have shown that most players want a consensual pvp system of gameplay. Something like Factions used to be opt-in and have things to fight over. World of Warcraft has basically instanced-only PvP now. Obviously PvP servers still exist on that game, but 99% of the PvP is done in battlegrounds or arenas.

PKing just isn't a sustainable model anymore, it drives out way too many people that just aren't interested in non-consensual PvP. Item insurance and LRC removed the reward of getting loot from PvP, and farming PS takes too much time investment to make it worth the chance of losing them. I really think that PvPers need something to fight over that isn't just Power Scrolls.

I don't know what would motive the existing PvP players, or current non-PvP players to participate. Something like a WoW arena season may be worth implementing, with rewards you can only obtain through said system (special titles, unique mounts, a special armor dye, a trophy that can be locked-down, a stat increase scroll higher than what you get from other activities). The best solutions are demonstrably not systems that force non-consensual activity, but those that offer a special reward for those that choose to participate.

I know that some people here will just say that is exactly what Power Scrolls are, a reward for participating. That is partially correct, but the problem is that you don't obtain the PS via PvP, you obtain it via PvM and then have a chance of it getting stolen via PvP.

 

[CovenantX]

I will admit that I don't know much about SP and how it works, other than it is a fel-only ruleset shard.

Neither does Frodo, otherwise he wouldn't bring it up in this conversation. Siege has been dead for reasons unrelated to it being Fel-only. Anyone that plays or has played there knows why it went down hill over the last decade.

The best solutions are demonstrably not systems that force non-consensual activity, but those that offer a special reward for those that choose to participate.

I know that some people here will just say that is exactly what Power Scrolls are, a reward for participating. That is partially correct, but the problem is that you don't obtain the PS via PvP, you obtain it via PvM and then have a chance of it getting stolen via PvP.

I mostly agree with this. But I do dislike the terms "Non-consensual" & "Forced" because they're not what we're talking about.

I dislike the term "participation prize" when referring to Powerscrolls as well, it's a prize for Winning. Participation prizes don't motivate people to get better, it's the exact opposite, they make false progress because they'll just lose on purpose as long as they're rewarded in order to achieve a goal they may otherwise never reach. (that's what WoW has)

The Powerscrolls coming from Pvm content, Sure, that is not debatable... it does require pvm, the level of pvm is very low at least for most of the spawns.
Pvp characters can handle all of it, though it would likely take longer... but, The same goes for Trammel content as well, except there's no need to use a "Pvp" suit/template in Trammel, obviously because there's no chance pvp would ever occur there.

Basically, We would have nothing worth entering fel dungeons for Powerscrolls were to drop in Trammel Spawns. So it cannot (and should not) be done until we have a least a worthy replacement... It's not worth losing the remaining players that use this content, It's boring competing against scripters, bots, and even other people in places you can't do anything about them. - Trammel.

We've used the Guild War options. on LS we went to War with the other pvp guild a few years back, we could pvp in any facet during the war, I believe it was highest score (kill count) after 7 days (the duration could be wrong) or the first guild to 1000 kills. It was fun for a little bit, mostly because of the change in scenery (exactly what VvV was), What did we get for winning the guild war? Absolutely nothing... at that point, Guild Wars became Pvp just to Pvp... we already have that, with less preparation required... as a matter of fact, we actually lost a few guild members out of it... they end up logging into Luna before they knew the war was even going on, and get ganked, So, it wasn't so fun for some people. I'm sure that happened to the opposing guild as well.

Most PvPers do use VvV, though it's less attractive now, because corpse loot (in pvm) is much stronger than the equipment you get from VvV and town silver points are mostly used to replace VvV Crimson Cincture & the VvV Mount which will soon no longer be unique to the VvV mount, because store-bought mounts will have the ability to be ressed without vet as well, with no requirement to join VvV.


There's a lot that factors into all of this, even though some of it may seem completely unrelated. It's hard to not veer off topic when discussing UO because of the "Sandbox" of it.

 

[Cymidei]

I say its about time to add to felucca what its been needing for a long time, more content. Ilshnear becoming felucca would add so much more fun for pvp, let me explain why

1. Leave the no recall in so that people have to search for you.
2. Make the champion spawns have paragon bosses. Also those bosses should drop a random paragon chest with guaranteed lvl 7 maps and major artifacts or better inside of them.
3. There is plenty of content to upgrade here to make pvp 100 times better.
4. Oaks spawn would be the highest pvped over spawn since despise.
5. This will make the trammelites angry and me smile.
6. Noone would be able to script this area for anything since you cant recall in or mark runes.

Let the flames commence. But also make sure to look at it as a idea before directly flaming out.

How about we not waste any more Dev time on pvp bull **** no one wants?

If people wanted to pvp they would do it. Pvpers already have champ spawns, Harrower, VvV, Fel based EM events, double resources, and a whole facet for their pleasure. Not to mention Seige, etc. Still not satisfied and no one wants to play??? Devs can’t fix that and having more stuff won’t help. It’s you guys and your motivation to play and interact.

You guys really need to quit whining like babies and learn how to entertain yourselves.

When was the last time you heard us role-players ask for something?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pawain]

How about we not waste any more Dev time on pvp bull **** no one wants?

How do you really feel?

 

[CovenantX]

When was the last time you heard us role-players ask for something?

I was under the impression there wasn't many role-players left. explains why we haven't seen them ask for anything lately.

 

[Spartan]

I was under the impression there wasn't many role-players left. explains why we haven't seen them ask for anything lately.

Then you don't know role-players. How many posts have you seen right here from Goblin friends? Or Orcs? Not a lot but there have been a goodly number and in-character as well.

See, role-players make their own fun, thus don't need Devs to hand them everything. Dunno if it was this thread or another of them but someone recently asked the PVP community why they don't just make their own fun stuff to do?

And you know ... if one has a totally maxxed out l33t suit and can handle all or most of the spawn then that's fine. Part of your fun should be getting a mixed group together with standard stuff and COOPERATE at a spwn.

 

[CovenantX]

Dunno if it was this thread or another of them but someone recently asked the PVP community why they don't just make their own fun stuff to do?

It was this thread, the response was...

We do, we have tournaments & Occasional Harrower. There's not really anything else to do.... for ~16+ years.

Pvp just to pvp.... that's what yew-gate is for, it's used enough on shards where there's a player-base. dead shards are going to continue to die because the economy suffers on those shards and the only players on those shards that "farm" anything to stock the market with goods are scripting the f*** out of it. Probably because it's boring and no one else wants to do it.

That must be why all the people attending EM events for the "Story" whine about not getting a drop?
Advocating to change "Top Attacker" to a "Random" system? yea, looks like you guys make your own fun...

And you know ... if one has a totally maxxed out l33t suit and can handle all or most of the spawn then that's fine. Part of your fun should be getting a mixed group together with standard stuff and COOPERATE at a spwn.

I know, I cooperate with my guild if they or I want something we go get it. Trammies are the ones asking for everything to be given to them... I put forth the effort to learn pvp so I don't lose fights often, let alone powerscrolls... I think some of you guys need to take your own advice.

What can I say? it's the Trammel mentality at it's best worst... or could it get worse than this?

 

[Spartan]

Okay. Ya got me, but you and your crew are just part of the community. What about the rest? You know on other shards, etc? Haven't heard too much in that regard ... yet.

 

[CovenantX]

Okay. Ya got me, but you and your crew are just part of the community. What about the rest? You know on other shards, etc? Haven't heard too much in that regard ... yet.

That's the compromise.

I don't know what the perfect solution is... as far as the economy & player-base being funneled to Atlantic & Europa.

I don't necessarily agree with the Topic if this thread, but I do agree with what the purpose of it is... More content to Fel.

Trammel has quite a bit of content, and to me.. I think the content there should be unique, in the sense you can't experience it, or get the same rewards from it elsewhere. Fel deserves the same... that's all.

I've suggested even expanding on "Set" piece items, where you get part of a set in Trammel & another in Fel (and other facets)... so that both are required, and it would encourage trading, buying, selling etc..
but everytime something comes up about "fel" wanting something to do, Trammies resort to crying their eyes out over powerscrolls. Every... single... time.

 

[drcossack]

If people wanted to pvp they would do it. Pvpers already have champ spawns, Harrower, VvV, Fel based EM events, double resources, and a whole facet for their pleasure. Not to mention Seige, etc. Still not satisfied and no one wants to play??? Devs can’t fix that and having more stuff won’t help. It’s you guys and your motivation to play and interact.

VvV was dead shortly after its implementation. The only things it's used for now are flagging, the aforementioned pet res'ing, and Royal Pardons if people need them. Double resources? What benefit does that have for a pvp'er? Siege is irrelevant, because there are a multitude of reasons why nobody plays there. As I don't, I can't speak about that, nor do I intend to. But I can tell you that I don't play there because of the "difficulty" created by the shard's restriction (which is nothing more than an artificial challenge - 1 character per account.) For the pvp'ers, if Siege was worth playing, we would do so. That we don't should tell you enough.

That said, you're right on one thing: We want to pvp, and do so. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't have the right to ask for new content to fight over after 16 years, when the few things we have been given have either not been pvp-based (double resources) or just flat-out suck (vvv.) Why does Trammel continually get catered to when people don't do a vast majority of what it offers? I mean, sure, part of the reason why is that the content isn't worth doing (the loot is pretty much garbage on anything besides a few endgame level bosses), but the other is the unnecessary grind involved (i.e. Shadowguard.) Zipactriotl and the Underwater Boss have the same problem as Shadowguard, but on a larger scale: you have to jump through hoops just to GET to the finale. In the case of Zippy, the loot isn't worth the time it takes to do every part of the quest chain. I haven't done Underwater Boss in quite some time, so I'm not certain how good the corpse loot is these days.

 

[McKinneley]

Why does Trammel continually get catered to when people don't do a vast majority of what it offers?

People don't do the vast majority of what trammel offers because the game was turned into a loot progression system. The only way to get the best items, is to go to a few select places where it drops. If the best items dropped off random low-level monsters, then people would farm those instead because they're easier. This is really a problem of UO implementing an item system that requires players to get better loot to progress their characters.

I mostly agree with this. But I do dislike the terms "Non-consensual" & "Forced" because they're not what we're talking about.

I dislike the term "participation prize" when referring to Powerscrolls as well, it's a prize for Winning. Participation prizes don't motivate people to get better, it's the exact opposite, they make false progress because they'll just lose on purpose as long as they're rewarded in order to achieve a goal they may otherwise never reach. (that's what WoW has)

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that people should necessarily receive a reward only via participation. What I mean is that players are forced to participate in PvP (sometimes, obviously people don't raid every champ spawn) when they don't want to. I think this comes down to just competing views of what is enjoyable to the playerbase. Some people enjoy PvM and killing difficult monsters and getting a reward for their effort, and some people enjoy PvP, PKing, etc. Neither playstyle is the right one, or the wrong one. I don't load up PUBG when I want a relaxing night, I load up Cities: Skylines for that. The problem is that UOs two-decade-old design is just primitive at this point. No major games use this type of system anymore, because most people don't want it.

 

[drcossack]

People don't do the vast majority of what trammel offers because the game was turned into a loot progression system. The only way to get the best items, is to go to a few select places where it drops. If the best items dropped off random low-level monsters, then people would farm those instead because they're easier. This is really a problem of UO implementing an item system that requires players to get better loot to progress their characters.

Problem is, people aren't farming these endgame monsters either. The corpse loot is one thing, but look at the backpack drops. The most desired ones are the Slither, Enchantress Cameo, and Scholar's Halo. They are THE most expensive pack drops in the game (outside of EM events, where the price varies.) If they were being farmed, the prices of those three items wouldn't be as high as it was. While I wouldn't doubt people actually do the content, they aren't doing it religiously, which is why the items are still so expensive. There's also the issue of drop rates.

 

[Luvmylace]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

How many of us are left from the very begining of UO.How many recall that the Newbie began with nothing ,had to look for ways to make gold, work up your character and stay alive because everything in the world could and would kill you?
Their quickly came a time when some players, for whatever reason broke from the intended plan for the game.They began free-for-all warfare upon other players hence the PK was born.
Players were furious and complained ,but wnen they started quitting in numbers Trammel was born.2000 Now we have what the majority wanted.
The minute you change a Trammel style world back to a Felucca ruleset, you Risk a large player base outrage. I don't see them listening to a few players.
UO Elders ,as they once were known are not going to risk it

 

[McKinneley]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

How many of us are left from the very begining of UO.How many recall that the Newbie began with nothing ,had to look for ways to make gold, work up your character and stay alive because everything in the world could and would kill you?
Their quickly came a time when some players, for whatever reason broke from the intended plan for the game.They began free-for-all warfare upon other players hence the PK was born.
Players were furious and complained ,but wnen they started quitting in numbers Trammel was born.2000 Now we have what the majority wanted.
The minute you change a Trammel style world back to a Felucca ruleset, you Risk a large player base outrage. I don't see them listening to a few players.
UO Elders ,as they once were known are not going to risk it

I died to a bear near Minoc within 5 minutes of making my character. I then resurrected at the healer, moved about 1 screen south, and was killed by a PK. I quit that very day.

Came back the next day on a different shard and played the game religiously for about 5-6 years. Good times.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

How about we not waste any more Dev time on pvp bull **** no one wants?

When was the last time you heard us role-players ask for something?

Red bananas, Wedding outfits, Coffee Machines, you know I could actually go on forever on this one...

So I would question where the dev time is being wasted even.

Every Meet and Greet is dominated by role players.

And that's not a bad thing by the way, I happen to like role players.

 

[Spartan]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

How many of us are left from the very begining of UO.How many recall that the Newbie began with nothing ,had to look for ways to make gold, work up your character and stay alive because everything in the world could and would kill you?
Their quickly came a time when some players, for whatever reason broke from the intended plan for the game.They began free-for-all warfare upon other players hence the PK was born.
Players were furious and complained ,but wnen they started quitting in numbers Trammel was born.2000 Now we have what the majority wanted.
The minute you change a Trammel style world back to a Felucca ruleset, you Risk a large player base outrage. I don't see them listening to a few players.
UO Elders ,as they once were known are not going to risk it

I accidentally whacked a peasant in the S Moonglow hut ... trying to use rabbits as my weapons gain. That was before I learned you could drag up health bars. Made smacking thing s whole lot easier! OoOOoOOo

 

[Cymidei]

Why don't you guys make some events or something? Design a player run battleground and offer your own rewards for it. Make a military objective and challenge other PVP guilds to achieve it. Perhaps a gauntlet that only the toughest of the tough could survive? If you know what you want to do and enjoy as PVPers, set something fun up, and collaborate. Try something creative and fun you've never done before...All it would require is people who share a passion in PVP to work together, and agree to fair play. Why don't you come up with an idea that is fun, entertaining for your community, and show it off?

 

[Ducan IronWeaver]

Every Meet and Greet is dominated by role players.

*waves to Mr. Cookie* Hello new stratics friend of mine ...
New question for you good ser:: Why don't the PvPers start showing up and start dominating the meet and greets?? Start showing up in force like the role-players do and get some one on one interaction going with the developers.. Maybe the role-players see alot of new stuff thrown there way b/c they are always heavily involved at these events asking and giving ideas.. If I PvP'd, I would try to get the PvP community to start attending and keep throwing suggestions and ideas at them non stop at every one of these events.. If you guys ask/suggest 100 things at these events. Maybe you can get a handful of things thru to them and changed or added.. I know its not perfect and you wont get all your ideas thru to them. But if you keep bombarding them with ideas and suggestions, you might be able to get them to add in some new stuff for PvP.. Afew wins out of 100 loses are alot better then no wins..

I attend or read the transcripts for every meet and great. There is rarely any PvP players who show up with questions or any type of suggestions for the developers at these events.. There are very few PvP questions that ever show up during these events. And most of the questions are usually just someone asking for something tobe nerfed or un-nerfed. And not giving them actual suggestions on things to add like anew spawn or dungeon or some type of new challenge for the PvP community..

 

[Ducan IronWeaver]

Why don't you guys make some events or something?

I suggested this also on page #5 of this post.. Someone said they do run tournaments but I have not seen any advertised on here in a very very long time (Other then Grim Reapers recent attempt). And if people are running tourneys but not advertising them on here I think that is just bad business on their part.. The Grim Reaper is the only person that I have seen in along time try to set up a tourney on the forums.. He advertised on afew platforms and put up a billion in gold as the prizes. It was supposed tobe held yesterday but had to postpone it. He couldn't get enough PvP players to join it sadly..

But it doesn't even have tobe tourneys. Set up a day and get a group together make some teams up. Maybe pick some neighboring cities in game, and you have each team start off in there own city. Then go on the hunt for the other team/teams in the field..Try to find each other somewhere in the field and battle..

@TB Cookie [W] in you other thread you talked about how you guys had about 50 different players on in a 5 hour span one night and went crazy with PvP and had a ball.... If PvPers started planning a bit with some player run events you can probably get fights like that alot more often.. I know its not as spontaneous as you would like. But if you had aton of fun with it, wouldn't it still be worth it to set some stuff up like that?
Im not saying plan your PvP fights for ever night, but why not add a handfull of player run PvP nights every month?? Im not talking about just meet up at yew gate and fight, but put a little thought into the events. Set up some different stuff and get some fighting going and have fun.. Maybe get a group together split it up in 2 teams, have one team go out and pop a random spawn, and give them a little head start. Then the 2nd team has to find what spawn they are at and try to stop them from getting the boss popped and killing it. Then after that round switch it up the defending team now becomes the attackers for round two..
Its not perfect but wouldn't things like this add some more fun into PvPing for you guys/gals?

 

[drcossack]

I attend or read the transcripts for every meet and great. There is rarely any PvP players who show up with questions or any type of suggestions for the developers at these events.. There are very few PvP questions that ever show up during these events. And most of the questions are usually just someone asking for something tobe nerfed or un-nerfed. And not giving them actual suggestions on things to add like anew spawn or dungeon or some type of new challenge for the PvP community..

We're not suggesting anything, because they don't listen to us, so there's no point in trying.

Case in point:

Haha, Yea... remember when Bleak was at yew gate on TC! after posting here on Stratics saying "I'm only going to discuss things that are in the patch notes", only to suggest that Mana Drain (spell) should perhaps become more useful? I'm pretty sure mana drain wasn't in the patch notes like.... Ever? Anyway, it was upsetting.

Yes, I do...and wasn't it Mind Blast, not Mana Drain? Anyway, doesn't really matter. My head definitely hit my desk after that comment.

More:

Look at how long it took for the devs to fix vvv guardwhacking of reds in town. It was a simple fix but they wanted a video of it, I believe? Or an explanation of how it worked, I don't remember. But it's a simple issue with mechanics that were described in the threads made about it. How do you need a further explanation?

 

[Luvmylace]

Does anyone remember VVV (Dragon Claw Guild)or BearPoint from Catskills? And there are many more from other shards. From the beginning of UO, all upgraded content ,including fixes and new items ,came from closely observing the player base. It has always been a fact that players who embraced some aspect of game by RP or inventing player run towns or benevolent guild.
activities ,which drew in a response from the player base and had some positive effect for the game, got attention from the "Powers that Be" and were granted lots of their wishes. The few that whined and did nothing for the benefit to the game got zero..
Thieves had an upper hand in the beginning of the game and could even steal your house by getting your keys. At that time my Felucca merchant town was fair game for Pkers. A Guild of Thieves took on protection of the town and helped fight against them. Anyone with some ingenuity can find a way other than complaining ,to get their attention and effect a change.
Why not get all those of you with complaints about play get together and devise some event or storyline to get their attention to your ideas and wishes

 

[Ducan IronWeaver]

It was a simple fix but they wanted a video of it, I believe? Or an explanation of how it worked, I don't remember.

They probably asked for a detailed explanation...They ask for this basic info on any bug or any mechanic in the game that is not working properly.. They try to get all the info they can so that they can replicate it and see what is going on so they can fix it..

 

[Happy Rage]

Why is this still a thing? Lol warcake and cocksack what have you stirred up? Lolol

 

[drcossack]

They probably asked for a detailed explanation...They ask for this basic info on any bug or any mechanic in the game that is not working properly.. They try to get all the info they can so that they can replicate it and see what is going on so they can fix it..

I'm aware. But it's literally the following:

1) Red uses aoe in town (field spell, earthquake, whatever)
2) Guard is damaged by it (or walks into it, if it's a field spell)
3) They go after the player, either 1-shotting them or 2-shotting them (I have survived the first hit, but I'm not sure how I managed. I had single digit HP afterward though.)

In that particular case, you don't NEED a detailed explanation of the issue. It's not that complicated. For other bugs, like the others Pub 100 is fixing? Yeah, you'd need to see them in action.

 

[Great DC]

Might as well just close this thread since at least 200 posts are from trammel type trolls which are not being removed. You cant have an intelligent conversation on here that is open minded cause this forum is run by trammel people. Since ive started just a couple of threads on here recently Ive been reported dozens of times for nothing more then suggesting ideas for the game and getting nothing but nonsense and ******** as a reply. Such a waste of time to even attempt to make the game better. Bye trolls enjoy your millennial crybaby forums.

 

[petemage]

Did someone say crybaby forums?

 

[Crunchnasty]

UO without a significant non consensual PvP element makes the game dull and predictable. UO was like real life before the trammel split. Unpredictable, and survival of the fittest. That was the fun part, winning against the odds, nature, and your enemies. Not just having some predictable path to getting whatever you want. I can't tell you what's fun for you @railshot and @frodo. I'm just waxing poetic about the raw, magical nature of UO as I know it. To each their own, but I know I will always love the original vision of Ultima Online.

 

[Syncros]

UO without Felucca ruleset would continue on just fine, Wouldve I come back to UO if they had removed the Fel ruleset? Most definately though I wouldve missed it.

After reading the comments the Devs leave it looks like they are content when leaving things the way they are and riding it out. I mean sure they prob want to add new stuff (small team holds that back) but are also prob afraid of the negative feedback they would get for introducing change.

 

[drcossack]

New UO without Felucca ruleset would continue on just fine, Wouldve I come back to UO if they had removed the Fel ruleset? Most definately though I wouldve missed it.

yeah, tell that to all the pvm'ers who don't do any of the content in this game, outside of maybe 5 things max. You take pvp out of Fel and you might as well pull the plug on this game.

 

[Lord Frodo]

yeah, tell that to all the pvm'ers who don't do any of the content in this game, outside of maybe 5 things max. You take pvp out of Fel and you might as well pull the plug on this game.

He didn't say take Fel out of the game, he said take Fel Rule Set out of the game, big difference. Yes UO would do just fine.

 

[drcossack]

He didn't say take Fel out of the game, he said take Fel Rule Set out of the game, big difference. Yes UO would do just fine.

No, it wouldn't. If you remove Fel-based pvp (which is essentially the same as killing Fel entirely) from the game for your "pvp switch" (which, once again, isn't going to happen, per Kyronix. Give it up), the plug's going to get pulled on UO.

Who do you think does the small amount of pvm content worth doing that's in this game? The pvm'ers? They do not. They might on rare occasions, but it's predominantly the pvp'ers that do the endgame pvm content. Or the afk scripters, some of whom are also pvp'ers.

If Fel ruleset is taken out of this game, the pvp'ers aren't going to continue playing. We don't do pvm content because we like it. We do it because that's what the game is now. When all of those accounts close, NOBODY left playing this game (the pvm'ers/Trammies) will be doing the content to supply the market with the most desirable items (Enchantress Cameo, Scholar's Halo, and Slither, to name a few), because THEY DON'T DO IT NOW.

 

[railshot]

No, it wouldn't. If you remove Fel-based pvp (which is essentially the same as killing Fel entirely) from the game for your "pvp switch" (which, once again, isn't going to happen, per Kyronix. Give it up), the plug's going to get pulled on UO.

Who do you think does the small amount of pvm content worth doing that's in this game? The pvm'ers? They do not. They might on rare occasions, but it's predominantly the pvp'ers that do the endgame pvm content. Or the afk scripters, some of whom are also pvp'ers.
.

So, let me get this straight, PvMers don't PvM? It's all PvPers? What do PvMers do in this game? Oh I know! They must be the ones trash talking in genchat on Atl.
Is the source of this nonsense the same as your stories about free access to scrolls and PvPers who don't like to kill PvMers?

My large guild who is all PvM does roof non stop. I do it all the time as well. All of us must be PvPer alts, right? With few exceptions of people who are there to decorate or collect stuff, everyone in this game is doing endgame content, be it roof, doom, or Exodus.

 

[drcossack]

My large guild who is all PvM does roof non stop. I do it all the time as well

if that were the case, the price of Cameos wouldn't be what it is. I'm going to call BS.

 

[railshot]

if that were the case, the price of Cameos wouldn't be what it is. I'm going to call BS.

How do you know? Do you have any evidence that the rarity of cameo drops is such that the price would be lower if it was indeed farmed all the time?

 

[drcossack]

How do you know? Do you have any evidence that the rarity of cameo drops is such that the price would be lower if it was indeed farmed all the time?

Yeah, actually, I do. It goes back to something you don't understand, per your previous posts on the subject: Basic economics (supply and demand.)

While this is a bad example, due to how they were obtained, let's look at Exodus stat scrolls. Back when the adviser program was in place, they would sell for about 7 mil. Do you know why? It wasn't because people were farming the keys and killing the boss. It's because of the abuse of power that was going on, which led to the adviser program being suspended/canned - players were getting teleported directly to the boss area. Once that was stopped, what happened to the price of the +5 scroll? It went back up.

Back in 2014 or so, the Slither sold for 100m. It currently sells for 175m, on average, where it has remained for a few years. Nobody is farming Medusa, or there would be more Slithers for sale, which would lead to the price being lower.

 

[railshot]

Yeah, actually, I do. It goes back to something you don't understand, per your previous posts on the subject: Basic economics (supply and demand.)

That is quite laughable coming from you. But the most intriguing part is that apparently you do accept pricing arguments over anecdotes? As long as it's not your anecdotes, right?

While this is a bad example, due to how they were obtained, let's look at Exodus stat scrolls. Back when the adviser program was in place, they would sell for about 7 mil. Do you know why? It wasn't because people were farming the keys and killing the boss. It's because of the abuse of power that was going on, which led to the adviser program being suspended/canned - players were getting teleported directly to the boss area. Once that was stopped, what happened to the price of the +5 scroll? It went back up.

Back in 2014 or so, the Slither sold for 100m. It currently sells for 175m, on average, where it has remained for a few years. Nobody is farming Medusa, or there would be more Slithers for sale, which would lead to the price being lower.

No, those are not bad examples. Those are irrelevant examples. The Slither one, due to the time span involved also manages to ignore gold inflation.
Cameo price is stable and is reflective of the frequency of the drop and the number of people farming them vs how many people want them which are also stable. Your statement that it would be lower if everyone were farming them has no support whatsoever, or at least none that you provided.
As an economic expert in his own mind, please share with me what the price for cameos should be if majority of PvMers farmed roof regularly, and how you came to this number. Your unequivocal statement on the subject leads me to believe that you have data I have no access too, and know how to make such a calculation.

 

[drcossack]

No, those are not bad examples. Those are irrelevant examples. The Slither one, due to the time span involved also manages to ignore gold inflation.
Cameo price is stable and is reflective of the frequency of the drop and the number of people farming them vs how many people want them which are also stable. Your statement that it would be lower if everyone were farming them has no support whatsoever, or at least none that you provided.

Why are they irrelevant? Because you say so? I know I'm talking to a brick wall here, but c'mon, even you can't be that thickheaded. If the market gets flooded (As was the case with the Exodus stat scrolls, where the method of how they were obtained is irrelevant), the price will go down. Which it did. Once the (illegal) method of obtaining them was stopped, the price went up, because the SUPPLY decreased.

The same would be true for the Cameo, Slither, and Halo. Getting the keys for Medusa takes less time than an entire run of Shadowguard. As does Doom - in the time it takes for the group I run Shadowguard with to do it (start to finish, we can do it in a little over an hour), we could have done AT LEAST four full cycles of Doom. Can you honestly tell me that, if, let's say 200 each of the Slither, Halo, and Cameos suddenly appeared for sale, their price wouldn't go down? Because it would. And you know that.

 

[railshot]

Why are they irrelevant? Because you say so? I know I'm talking to a brick wall here, but c'mon, even you can't be that thickheaded. If the market gets flooded (As was the case with the Exodus stat scrolls, where the method of how they were obtained is irrelevant), the price will go down. Which it did. Once the (illegal) method of obtaining them was stopped, the price went up, because the SUPPLY decreased.

The same would be true for the Cameo, Slither, and Halo. Getting the keys for Medusa takes less time than an entire run of Shadowguard. As does Doom - in the time it takes for the group I run Shadowguard with to do it (start to finish, we can do it in a little over an hour), we could have done AT LEAST four full cycles of Doom. Can you honestly tell me that, if, let's say 200 each of the Slither, Halo, and Cameos suddenly appeared for sale, their price wouldn't go down? Because it would. And you know that.

You accused me of lying about my guild doing roof daily, because in your opinion cameos prices would be lower. I am asking you again to support your baseless statement. How do you know that the current prices are not at the levels reflective of most PvMers are already doing roof? What would be the price reflective of that level? How did you come to that conclusion. No personal stories please. Answers would require knowledge of math and economics.
I know that I wont get an answer that makes sense, so I'll help you. Your examples are irrelevant because they deal with a changing situation where prices are changing. This allows observers to draw conclusions about changes with supply and demand - same as I did with power scrolls. Cameo prices are stable, so unless you have access to shard statistics, you cannot draw any conclusions about what is going on. Current price may be a perfect reflection of maximum supply (100% of players are farming it) or minimum supply (1% of players are farming it). There is no way to tell, because there are no appreciative price movement. This is how economic data analysis works. Not "I know this because all my friends say so".

 

[Great DC]

I love how this thread is being completely derailed and is left completely unchecked by the moderators. What a joke these forums are!! These mods need to stop with their favoritism and just do their jobs. Please remove all trolling posts and off topic posts or just close it since your inept.