Make ilshnear felucca ruleset

[railshot]

If you really want more pvp DC, you should be asking for new areas where everything that drops is a PvP related prize.

It's not about the PvP, because nothing is stopping them from PvPing where they are now. They just want to increase the number of unwilling they can prey on.
And arguing with this bunch is pointless because they start with denying the obvious: "PvPers don't care about the scrolls", "PvPers don't like to kill PvMers", "Prices of the scrolls did not increase". Then they move on by using personal stories to "debunk" market data - "I don't raid PvMers", PvPers help PvMers to complete spawns" and the like. And when this does not work they accuse you of trolling and threaten to report you. And the cherry on the cake is that their personal stories are to be considered absolute truth representative of the game as whole. When you share your experience with one of them, it must necessarily be a lie.
I don't know DC, but behavior you describe is the one I have seen from multiple PvPers over they years. It's not something extraordinarily. What I have never seen is a fantasy PvPer that is not after the scrolls, does not attack PvMers, and helps people complete spawns.
Edit: Replaced PvPers with PvMers in the last sentence.

 

[Ducan IronWeaver]

LOL, What is all this anger in your post. I don't even know you or did I ever play with you, only time I saw that name on catskills it was sitting in luna bank. I also never ran a zerg in my UO life so that is a bold lie. I also never raided anyone but guilds that I fought against, I also never rked anyone ever unless they are known rkers. You obviously don't know me and never did. Oh and yeah I like to smacktalk when I do pvp because it usually creates more fights to have. So now that your done with your complete false personal attacks on me you can go back into your trammy land since I never seen you once outside of luna bank. Its people like you who caused drama and made catskills a horrible shard along with other dramatics which is why I transferred off that server. It was like kindergarten with the personal attacks on that shard, which seems you still have issues with and why you belong on that shard.

There is absolutely no anger in that post man.. Its all in good fun and joking with you.. This game is all about having fun.. I even said i don't know how you act now on other shards and not to get butt hurt..
I have been on your side and on the other side of the coin in guilds who you fought with.. Alot of the time I was in your guild plus the guilds you fought at the same time. This is def how you were with anyone in a guild that you fought against on Catskills..
You dont know my other characters names but I can 100% assure you I have been in the same guilds with you and have spawned with you bud.. And i 100% know you..
You were cool being the same guild with you. You actually taught me how to solo afew spawns back in the day.. But to the people on guilds who you have fought with thru the years that is def how you acted towards them.. You were forever cursing them out in gen chat my man...
This is also my crafters name so he has obviously never been in Fel other then for mining. Which again was not a lie about you chasing him down thru the years when you seen me mining lol..
You have def seen me in Fel plenty of times on your side and also on the other side. I have had a guys in pretty much every known guild on catskills for the games 20 years..
You would raid solo players of guilds that you fought with all the time at despise man with 2 or 3 and then yell at them in chat afterwards.. Thats is def not a lie

""its people like you who caused drama and made catskills a horrible shard"" I am actually drama free and was just stating what it was like in guilds you were against.. You can ask anyone on Catskills im one of the most loved over there my man ELE Everybody Lover Everbody

 

[Pawain]

DC and Cossack are not the types of players that ran people away long ago. They are just the few PvPers who are posting in this thread. Would be realistic if some actual bad apples posted in this thread.

Oh well.

 

[Rage Munkie]

 

[OREOGL]

It's not about the PvP, because nothing is stopping them from PvPing where they are now. They just want to increase the number of unwilling they can prey on.
And arguing with this bunch is pointless because they start with denying the obvious: "PvPers don't care about the scrolls", "PvPers don't like to kill PvMers", "Prices of the scrolls did not increase". Then they move on by using personal stories to "debunk" market data - "I don't raid PvMers", PvPers help PvMers to complete spawns" and the like. And when this does not work they accuse you of trolling and threaten to report you. And the cherry on the cake is that their personal stories are to be considered absolute truth representative of the game as whole. When you share your experience with one of them, it must necessarily be a lie.
I don't know DC, but behavior you describe is the one I have seen from multiple PvPers over they years. It's not something extraordinarily. What I have never seen is a fantasy PvPer that is not after the scrolls, does not attack PvPers, and helps people complete spawns.

Why would you see a PVPer not attacking another PVPer?

You appear to be just throwing up things randomly to see what sticks, much like some dude buying an RPG because he watched an episode of Cops.

 

[drcossack]

It's not about the PvP, because nothing is stopping them from PvPing where they are now. They just want to increase the number of unwilling they can prey on.
And arguing with this bunch is pointless because they start with denying the obvious: "PvPers don't care about the scrolls", "PvPers don't like to kill PvMers", "Prices of the scrolls did not increase". Then they move on by using personal stories to "debunk" market data - "I don't raid PvMers", PvPers help PvMers to complete spawns" and the like. And when this does not work they accuse you of trolling and threaten to report you. And the cherry on the cake is that their personal stories are to be considered absolute truth representative of the game as whole. When you share your experience with one of them, it must necessarily be a lie.
I don't know DC, but behavior you describe is the one I have seen from multiple PvPers over they years. It's not something extraordinarily. What I have never seen is a fantasy PvPer that is not after the scrolls, does not attack PvPers, and helps people complete spawns.

 

[Anon McDougle]

now i isn't very smart but if PVPers really want to fight why not be in Waring guilds if i am not mistaken can not opposing guilds kill each other in tram ? if you need no other motive to fight then the thrill of fighting can't you really do it anywhere anytime?? i guess i just don't really understand what it is you feel is missing? lets look at Origin and lets say there are 25 PVPers there are you just bored with winning or losing all the time vs the same people ? are you mad that the roof is in tram and your RED cant do it ? i don't ask to troll i honestly want to know what the core issue is ??

 

[Ducan IronWeaver]

That's not whining that's stating facts my man lol..

But seriously tho all things aside.....


If you are really after more PvP and the dev's are not giving it to you. Why don't you try to spend a little bit of time and start organizing more PvP for yourself and like minded players?? Instead of asking for an entire facets rule set to be changed and asking for Level 7 maps and more armor to be dropped on the bosses... Create and add to your own community inside of the game with the content that is available..

I know that they are completely different communities, but why don't you take a page from the role-playing and rare collectors communities?? Take a little time and set up stuff for yourself and like minded players who want to play that play-style..
Role-players take the time to create and set up their own events. Their play-style is not being catered to by the developers. So instead they are taking the time to plan events and set up their own stuff. These events they set up are bringing in players who want role-play and it built up their community.... These events that they the players set up have brought in like minded individuals who want to play that type of play-style.. They built up their own community so that they can have their fun doing the play-style that they enjoy most in the game.. Why can't the PvP community do this!!??!!???

The rares community go out of their way to set up Rares Fest events every year. They are planning and setting up their own activities inside the game for their type of play-style.. The developers are not catering to them, they are cooking for themselves so to say. Mesanna will stop by and drop down some deco real quick for the Fests and will drop a moongate in Luna to the location. But that is it, that is all she does for the Fests and its the players who are in the collecting community who are taking it upon themselves to enrich their in-game community and play experience.. It is the players themselves who are taking the time and placing the houses, decoing the houses, setting up the auctions and vendor houses. Its the players in that community who are advertising and who are planning events and contests for it.. They are enhancing their own community inside the game so they can have more fun with the play-style that they enjoy doing... Why can't the PvP community do this!!??!!???


For christ's sake players who like to fish and be fisherman in the game. Have even gone out of their way and started up their own fishing events and contests!!!. They were given a lakes and the fishing pole and then they enhanced that play-style themselves.. They built up their own in-game community so that they can have fun and enjoy what they like to do...Why can't the PvP community do this!!??!!???


You were given an entire facet as your play thing. You were even given a way to declare war on entire guilds so that every facet becomes Fel rule set!!
Why don't you guys/girls in the PvP community use this to add to your PvP play-style?? Why cant you start adding to your own community in the game and start planning and organizing your own stuff like every other in-game community???
For f*cks sake if a fisherman can do it why cant a Pvper?



The greatest thing about this game is that there are so many different play-styles and community's with in the game itself.. There is so many different aspects inside the game..
If these other communities of players inside the game are creating their own content inside the game itself for their type of playstyle and so they can enjoy and have fun doing what they like to do.... Why is it that the PvP community can't do this??

Why cant you guys set up tournaments for your PvP community? Instead of having tavern night like the role-players do. Why can't you guys set up your own PvP nights? Come up with ways to set up your own field fights? Sort of like I posted earlier get your in-game community together split up in teams and pop onto a field and battle.. Get the PvP community together and start some guilds that are only for PvP and then have those guild declare war on each other.. Bam you now have a way to have instant PvP anywhere you guys run into a fellow PvPer..

Take a step back and start planning and adding to your in-game community for yourselves with what you have to work with.. Every other in-game community does this for themselves. I dont understand what is holding the PvP community back from doing this?




Also instead of asking for an entire facets rule set to be changed on a forum that the dev's pretty much no longer pay any attention to.. Have you ever tried taking the time and going to a developers meet and great?
Talk with Mesanna and the developers face to face and give them some ideas on how they can help make the PvP play-style better? Talk with them and give them some ideas on how they can improve PvP..
Maybe ask them if they could add anew champ spawn that could kind of be for PvPers only.. Instead of power scrolls and replica's for the drops. Maybe have this new spawn or 2 be strictly for the PvP play style.. Maybe instead of power scrolls and pinks dropping, they could do something like scrolls with points on them. Sort of like the old brit spring cleanup tickets we used to get. Where they had X-amount of points on them and then you can trade them to a vendor for PvP related items.. Have the scrolls un-insurable and bless free so that after the champ is dead you guys can kill each other for them or steal them from each other.. Have these points be used for Potions for fighting, apples, grapes, orange peals, maybe add forged pardons or royal pardons as rewards.. Come up with rewards that PvPers could use and give the developers your ideas at these meet and greets..

 

[drcossack]

Talk with Mesanna and the developers face to face and give them some ideas on how they can help make the PvP play-style better? Talk with them and give them some ideas on how they can improve PvP..

We have talked to the devs - who do you think was behind the pvp changes publish? The vvv focus group was a bust from what I remember. They told the devs about some of the issues, but they were ignored and those issues were put on live shards and fixed later (one issue, which was reported early in vvv's life once it went live, is JUST getting a fix with pub 100 - the random npc guards walking around in town would guardwhack reds.)

If the devs refuse to listen, there isn't much we can do.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

now i isn't very smart but if PVPers really want to fight why not be in Waring guilds if i am not mistaken can not opposing guilds kill each other in tram ? if you need no other motive to fight then the thrill of fighting can't you really do it anywhere anytime?? i guess i just don't really understand what it is you feel is missing? lets look at Origin and lets say there are 25 PVPers there are you just bored with winning or losing all the time vs the same people ? are you mad that the roof is in tram and your RED cant do it ? i don't ask to troll i honestly want to know what the core issue is ??

This reply is for yours and Duncan's posts.

The "Thrill" of PvP.

That's exactly it - it happens - it is spontaneous, it is real, real emotions are the result and the entire point and fun of it, winning and losing matter for a few brief moments, like the Champions League final last night. 2 grown men came off crying last night, because they had their dream stolen from them, 1 guy will almost certainly lose his job as goalkeeper he was so bad, 1 guy became a hero.

You almost cannot organise it, you cannot box it up, this is my issue with war guilds, war mode, taking away Felucca rulesets and turning everything into a nice politically correct environment.
PvP events most often fail, even though some great individuals give it a great effort, because the PvPers aren't feeling it, it is too synthesised to be able to produce anything meaningful and therefore becomes boring. It is the difference between real or processed food - people can tell the difference, and to some people, it really matters.

A lot of what you guys are suggesting, is like comparing an MMA fight, with WWF wrestling. One is real, one is fake.
The problem is, because most of you don't do it, you've probably never competed in your life in any sort of event, you don't get it.
You don't know how to win, or how to handle losing.
Your lives are anesthetized.
If anything ever happened in life that shook you out of your suburban city comfort zones, you would not cope.
Some of us don't want to bow down to this reality.
We want the real thing, with meaning.

Prizes

One way to create this, is to have something truly meaningful to fight over, and an entire environment that allows anything to happen in.
In the real world, Oil is a huge motivator,
In the real world, someone went and dropped nukes because they didn't know where to draw the line.
Ok - nukes should not be allowed as they can destroy the entire environment, but bringing "oil" into it, works.

PvPers are different.

You've got those that just like to fight and nothing else.
You've got those that like to bully and prey on the weak.
You've got those that like to fight the bad guys, and help the weak.
You've got those that just like to live, and take things how they come, will just defend themselves when needed.
You've got those who troll, insult, have huge ego's, don't have an ego at all, stay in the shadows, craft, tame, gather, love teamwork, etc etc.

Any of that sound like real life, and all the different scenario's there?
Unadulterated, not watered down.
How about learning to live with those people, and not trying to box them all up, and categorise them, or cast them out because they don't fit your narrow viewpoint of the world?


Duncan - I thought it was a bit lame of you to call out one guy specifically, to try and knock down his argument by making it personal, knocking down the character and ignoring his argument - a typical trick in politics. Do you know how easy it is to character assassinate? It can be done to everyone - I'm going to do it to you in the next two lines, without even knowing you.

Especially when you add the - "you don't know me, but I know you very well" line - how lame is that seriously?
That takes a serious lack of balls to pull off that argument, it's underhand, and conniving - everything PvPers stand against.

If he is as bad as you say, that makes him one of the bad guys, and that is fine - it takes all sorts.
That should not make players quit, it should motivate them to take him down (or join him, or ignore him).
His problem is not that he is the bad guy driving everyone away, his problem is that the player-base has got too weak minded to deal with him.

My name is Cookie - and this is what I stand for.
Some of you, grow some balls.

 

[OREOGL]

now i isn't very smart but if PVPers really want to fight why not be in Waring guilds if i am not mistaken can not opposing guilds kill each other in tram ? if you need no other motive to fight then the thrill of fighting can't you really do it anywhere anytime?? i guess i just don't really understand what it is you feel is missing? lets look at Origin and lets say there are 25 PVPers there are you just bored with winning or losing all the time vs the same people ? are you mad that the roof is in tram and your RED cant do it ? i don't ask to troll i honestly want to know what the core issue is ??

The guild war system is very confining and often includes characters in the same guild that aren't pvp chars or even people that want to necessarily pvp.

No one is worried that their red can't do roof. In fact I don't think I recall anyone asking for this, that's why they have separate characters.

Very few if any wants to pvp in every facet. I know I don't, and if I want to take a break and stay logged in Lina I don't want to be demolished by some other player.

 

[OREOGL]

That's not whining that's stating facts my man lol..

But seriously tho all things aside.....


If you are really after more PvP and the dev's are not giving it to you. Why don't you try to spend a little bit of time and start organizing more PvP for yourself and like minded players?? Instead of asking for an entire facets rule set to be changed and asking for Level 7 maps and more armor to be dropped on the bosses... Create and add to your own community inside of the game with the content that is available..

I know that they are completely different communities, but why don't you take a page from the role-playing and rare collectors communities?? Take a little time and set up stuff for yourself and like minded players who want to play that play-style..
Role-players take the time to create and set up their own events. Their play-style is not being catered to by the developers. So instead they are taking the time to plan events and set up their own stuff. These events they set up are bringing in players who want role-play and it built up their community.... These events that they the players set up have brought in like minded individuals who want to play that type of play-style.. They built up their own community so that they can have their fun doing the play-style that they enjoy most in the game.. Why can't the PvP community do this!!??!!???

The rares community go out of their way to set up Rares Fest events every year. They are planning and setting up their own activities inside the game for their type of play-style.. The developers are not catering to them, they are cooking for themselves so to say. Mesanna will stop by and drop down some deco real quick for the Fests and will drop a moongate in Luna to the location. But that is it, that is all she does for the Fests and its the players who are in the collecting community who are taking it upon themselves to enrich their in-game community and play experience.. It is the players themselves who are taking the time and placing the houses, decoing the houses, setting up the auctions and vendor houses. Its the players in that community who are advertising and who are planning events and contests for it.. They are enhancing their own community inside the game so they can have more fun with the play-style that they enjoy doing... Why can't the PvP community do this!!??!!???


For christ's sake players who like to fish and be fisherman in the game. Have even gone out of their way and started up their own fishing events and contests!!!. They were given a lakes and the fishing pole and then they enhanced that play-style themselves.. They built up their own in-game community so that they can have fun and enjoy what they like to do...Why can't the PvP community do this!!??!!???


You were given an entire facet as your play thing. You were even given a way to declare war on entire guilds so that every facet becomes Fel rule set!!
Why don't you guys/girls in the PvP community use this to add to your PvP play-style?? Why cant you start adding to your own community in the game and start planning and organizing your own stuff like every other in-game community???
For f*cks sake if a fisherman can do it why cant a Pvper?



The greatest thing about this game is that there are so many different play-styles and community's with in the game itself.. There is so many different aspects inside the game..
If these other communities of players inside the game are creating their own content inside the game itself for their type of playstyle and so they can enjoy and have fun doing what they like to do.... Why is it that the PvP community can't do this??

Why cant you guys set up tournaments for your PvP community? Instead of having tavern night like the role-players do. Why can't you guys set up your own PvP nights? Come up with ways to set up your own field fights? Sort of like I posted earlier get your in-game community together split up in teams and pop onto a field and battle.. Get the PvP community together and start some guilds that are only for PvP and then have those guild declare war on each other.. Bam you now have a way to have instant PvP anywhere you guys run into a fellow PvPer..

Take a step back and start planning and adding to your in-game community for yourselves with what you have to work with.. Every other in-game community does this for themselves. I dont understand what is holding the PvP community back from doing this?




Also instead of asking for an entire facets rule set to be changed on a forum that the dev's pretty much no longer pay any attention to.. Have you ever tried taking the time and going to a developers meet and great?
Talk with Mesanna and the developers face to face and give them some ideas on how they can help make the PvP play-style better? Talk with them and give them some ideas on how they can improve PvP..
Maybe ask them if they could add anew champ spawn that could kind of be for PvPers only.. Instead of power scrolls and replica's for the drops. Maybe have this new spawn or 2 be strictly for the PvP play style.. Maybe instead of power scrolls and pinks dropping, they could do something like scrolls with points on them. Sort of like the old brit spring cleanup tickets we used to get. Where they had X-amount of points on them and then you can trade them to a vendor for PvP related items.. Have the scrolls un-insurable and bless free so that after the champ is dead you guys can kill each other for them or steal them from each other.. Have these points be used for Potions for fighting, apples, grapes, orange peals, maybe add forged pardons or royal pardons as rewards.. Come up with rewards that PvPers could use and give the developers your ideas at these meet and greets..

This is silly, this is like saying well instead of adding more content to trammel, why don't you just hold more player events like net tosses?

You make the assumption that they don't hold tournaments or pop harrower to fight or champs etc,

I don't really agree with the ilsehnar idea, because there's no point to it.

Aside from this there has been many requests and ideas about adding to PVP.

Generally these are met with posts from PVMers hashing out ridiculous arguments.

I.E. Making a fel specific shard. The you have to wade through the "just play siege", "it'll just die" "you guys just want to lure people" "it'll just waste devs time" garbage posts.

By now we are very familiar with all the responses we'd expect even posting something about fel here.

We also recognize that the devs team can't spend all their time on PVP items.

We'd love some content you suggested. It just generally doesn't happen.

It took years just to balance pvp, and I suspect it'll be years before they add content to fel again.

 

[CovenantX]

The greatest thing about this game is that there are so many different play-styles and community's with in the game itself.. There is so many different aspects inside the game..

It's true, but the fact of the matter is, there use to be many more playstyles...

Trammel reduced the use for... PKs & Anti-PKs.
Item Insurance took away the main thing that made Thieves fun in the first place.

Not addressing the problems have almost completely removed them, because they have such restricted use now, Those players have mostly moved on to other games or free shards where their playstyle is still valid.

Content lasts longer in Felucca because it is less boring and has 100% to do with the possibility of Pvp.

Fel-champ spawns is evidence of that, obviously they're still being done....

if scrolls dropped in trammel like the "trammie brigade" wants. Fel would need something new (that players want) and Pvpers are NOT willing to sacrifice their only incentive for something that might be worse, not to mention the time we'd have to wait for something to take its place. Honestly, most of us are already sick of waiting for something new to fight over.

Trammel Content gets boring after you've been through it a few times.... it becomes predictable and thus becomes nothing but a grind for the rewards. Also, since the Corpse loot is absolute garbage, it's mostly for the "rare" rewards, which doesn't help at all either, in fact it's the exact opposite.

Once the reward becomes the main goal, you make much more progress soloing most of the content, because most of it can only reward one person in a group anyway.

If these other communities of players inside the game are creating their own content inside the game itself for their type of playstyle and so they can enjoy and have fun doing what they like to do.... Why is it that the PvP community can't do this??

We do, we have tournaments & Occasional Harrower. There's not really anything else to do.... for ~16+ years.

Pvp just to pvp.... that's what yew-gate is for, it's used enough on shards where there's a player-base. dead shards are going to continue to die because the economy suffers on those shards and the only players on those shards that "farm" anything to stock the market with goods are scripting the f*** out of it. Probably because it's boring and no one else wants to do it.

We have talked to the devs - who do you think was behind the pvp changes publish? The vvv focus group was a bust from what I remember. They told the devs about some of the issues, but they were ignored and those issues were put on live shards and fixed later (one issue, which was reported early in vvv's life once it went live, is JUST getting a fix with pub 100 - the random npc guards walking around in town would guardwhack reds.)

If the devs refuse to listen, there isn't much we can do.

Haha, Yea... remember when Bleak was at yew gate on TC! after posting here on Stratics saying "I'm only going to discuss things that are in the patch notes", only to suggest that Mana Drain (spell) should perhaps become more useful? I'm pretty sure mana drain wasn't in the patch notes like.... Ever? Anyway, it was upsetting.

If only the devs would listen, and remove casting focus & Free cure.
re-adjust (nerf the f*** out of them) all consumables, so that the "Skilled" methods are the more important part. it would be much better off, but they mostly listen to the "cheating" players & non-pvpers for the most part.... seems fairly obvious when we can predict exactly what's going to happen before a change actually takes place... only to say "I told you so" (with a disappointed AF face) afterwards.

Quite the rant.... but It's consistent AF with my previous....3501 posts.

 

[drcossack]

Haha, Yea... remember when Bleak was at yew gate on TC! after posting here on Stratics saying "I'm only going to discuss things that are in the patch notes", only to suggest that Mana Drain (spell) should perhaps become more useful? I'm pretty sure mana drain wasn't in the patch notes like.... Ever? Anyway, it was upsetting.

If only the devs would listen, and remove casting focus & Free cure.
re-adjust (nerf the f*** out of them) all consumables, so that the "Skilled" methods are the more important part. it would be much better off, but they mostly listen to the "cheating" players & non-pvpers for the most part.... seems fairly obvious when we can predict exactly what's going to happen before a change actually takes place... only to say "I told you so" (with a disappointed AF face) afterwards.

Yes, I do...and wasn't it Mind Blast, not Mana Drain? Anyway, doesn't really matter. My head definitely hit my desk after that comment.

The guild war system is very confining and often includes characters in the same guild that aren't pvp chars or even people that want to necessarily pvp.

yup. When we did a guild war against nwa 2 years ago, we either took our pvm-oriented chars out of the guild, or just didn't log in on them for that week. It was fun, but would I do it again? Maybe, maybe not. The change of venue was fun for sure, since we were fighting in Luna or south of it (we went pretty far south too, on the bridges), in addition to our usual places (Yew Gate, Champ spawns, etc)

For me, if I want to pvp, I will. It depends entirely on my mood, although I'm almost always interested in a fight. I very rarely do Tram content because I find it boring (Shadowguard), or simply not worth it (pretty much everywhere else in the game.)

 

[celticus]

I think that's going a bit too far, but i'd be fine with a fel ruleset copy of ilshenar.

Add a facet with Ilsh content as a Fel rules facet would be cool, but dont take the present Ilsh out? Lots of people are using the present Ilsh as it is and use all its content as it is now. Make special encounters in that Ilsh-Fel facet, and make it desirable to use it for all, just another idea.

But nothing will happen and things will stay as they are. And still it is ok, and UO fun to play all content, including PVM and PVP imo.

 

[drcossack]

But nothing will happen and things will stay as they are. And still it is ok, and UO fun to play all content, including PVM and PVP imo.

if that's the case, why are there people *cough* railshot and Frodo *cough* who are trying to remove Fel & its pvp ruleset from the game? They can claim it's because of scrolls all they want, but their ENTIRE argument regarding that is based on nothing but falsehoods.

 

[OREOGL]

Yes, I do...and wasn't it Mind Blast, not Mana Drain? Anyway, doesn't really matter. My head definitely hit my desk after that comment.



yup. When we did a guild war against nwa 2 years ago, we either took our pvm-oriented chars out of the guild, or just didn't log in on them for that week. It was fun, but would I do it again? Maybe, maybe not. The change of venue was fun for sure, since we were fighting in Luna or south of it (we went pretty far south too, on the bridges), in addition to our usual places (Yew Gate, Champ spawns, etc)

For me, if I want to pvp, I will. It depends entirely on my mood, although I'm almost always interested in a fight. I very rarely do Tram content because I find it boring (Shadowguard), or simply not worth it (pretty much everywhere else in the game.)

I actually remember that, as soon as you walked through Luna gate there were several on you.

It was fun but no way would I want that to be a constant.

 

[railshot]

if that's the case, why are there people *cough* railshot and Frodo *cough* who are trying to remove Fel & its pvp ruleset from the game? They can claim it's because of scrolls all they want, but their ENTIRE argument regarding that is based on nothing but falsehoods.

This statement is a lie. Apart from my initial sarcastic response to the OP, which I later reiterated as being sarcastic, all I advocated for is making scrolls available it Trammel. But hey, Mr. "PvPers are not after the scrolls", truth never concerned you before, so why expect it now.

 

[drcossack]

This statement is a lie. Apart from my initial sarcastic response to the OP, which I later reiterated as being sarcastic, all I advocated for is making scrolls available it Trammel. But hey, Mr. "PvPers are not after the scrolls", truth never concerned you before, so why expect it now.

First off:



Second: I don't know how many times this has to be said: SCROLLS WILL NEVER BE IN TRAMMEL. They have ALWAYS been Fel-exclusive content, and they will remain as such. The fact that, after 16 years, people are STILL doing champ spawns on a regular basis should be proof enough of this. Just because you don't do them (because of the "evil pvp'ers" that raided you once 10 years ago) doesn't mean that there are PLENTY of people who do...and do so without getting raided. I have been more than civil about this in a vast majority of my posts on the subject, but I am getting really tired of saying the same things about it. Instead of your CONSTANT complaining on the forums about your "lack of scrolls", go DO THE SPAWNS FOR YOUR ****ING SELF.

If, even with the lack of people to raid you, you still won't do a champ spawn, I have nothing more to say. Sit at Luna with whatever dyed clothing you have and do nothing in-game like pretty much every Trammie that still plays this game.

 

[CovenantX]

This statement is a lie. Apart from my initial sarcastic response to the OP, which I later reiterated as being sarcastic, all I advocated for is making scrolls available it Trammel. But hey, Mr. "PvPers are not after the scrolls", truth never concerned you before, so why expect it now.

When your argument consists of "Access to Content", it's a lie plain and simple, it's been pointed out by several people, there was even a thread by a non-pvper supporting our argument.

My Siege of siege semi weekly update

You're just wrong, ignoring the facts is only going to make you wronger.

You obviously feel it's not worth trying simply because it is possible you could get raided, ignoring the fact it's exactly the same for everyone else, Pvpers included. That is simply not good enough to warrant a change, just to accommodate your (and Frodo's) needs wants... especially when it's at the expense of people that actually use the content as is.

 

[Ducan IronWeaver]

Hello there Mr, Cookie *Waves* First I would just like to point out that I have absolutely no problem with Fel and its rule set. I have zero problems with getting killed there by another player. I have zero problems with being raided and killed. I could careless about dieing, I have billions in gold losing Insurance money is not a problem for me. Being killed is not a problem for me I knew the risk of entering fel and am fine with it.. I also do believe Fel needs more stuff and even posted that If I was a PvPer I would try to ask the dev's for a new champ spawn or two that is pretty much strictly for PvPers... Have the rewards that drop on those bosses be rewards that PvP players could use.. Instead of having them drop automatic level 7 maps b/c i dont want to take the time to farm them.... I think they should add new champ bosses that would drop items that would specifically benefit PvP players only.. This would give PvP player new content and it would attract only players who want to PvP and give you guys something to fight over and bring you the type of fun that you want... This is just a game and I want everyone to have as much fun as they can while playing the play-style that they enjoy...

The problem I had was reading a guy going on and on about how only losers goto spawns to kill PvM players and "real" Fel players don't do that... When I know for a fact that said player absolutely loved doing that..That is the only reason why I called him out on it.. Not b/c I have a problem with PvP players or Fel or another players play-style.. I was just calling bullsh*t when I saw it..

Duncan - I thought it was a bit lame of you to call out one guy specifically, to try and knock down his argument by making it personal, knocking down the character and ignoring his argument - a typical trick in politics. Do you know how easy it is to character assassinate? It can be done to everyone - I'm going to do it to you in the next two lines, without even knowing you.

Again I called out one guy specifically, bc he is claiming that he isn't about just killing PvM players and that only real losers do that.. When in fact that was how he played.. I've been there in his chats as he is yelling that someone is soloing a spawn so he needs back up and other players to come down to take there boss... I have also been on the other end of being the guy soloing and having him come in with 2 other guys just to kill me for the boss. If he was really after the PvP and not just killing a PvM guy for his boss, like he was claiming he never does.. Then he wouldn't be killing that player(Never Solo mind you) and then going straight to the island and proceed to wall it up, kill the boss, run thru star room and then scream in general chat about how he just got a 120 magery and you suck and are so bad.. I have played with and been raided by players who are really after actual PvP. They dont just run to the island and wall it off so there is no longer any PvP at that spawn. They would leave the boss alone and not even touch it. They would tell you to go rez and come back. they would tell you to call in more friends for more fights.. Some would even rez you themselves and heal you. Then say go on bud ill give you a bit to run and we can go again.....


His argument also really wasn't an argument or ideas about adding to PvP. His Idea and argument is take away a whole facet that is extremely busy now with PvM players.. Especially with the new taming. I run around ilsh and it is loaded with players looking for different pets or popping the champs. Tons of Oak's get popped on Catskills. His argument wasn't to add to the PvP experience. He just wants to take away from PvM players. Add more places that are Fel rule set to attract more PvM players for him to kill.. Look at his #5 idea to make PvP better "This will make the trammelites angry and me smile".. He just wants more PvM players in areas were he can kill them and not actual PvP..


I have been reading your post in UoHall about trying to improve Fel aswell.. Look at the difference between the two of your ideas and how you are answering other players. You have been extremely kind and have been answering questions from PvM players and actually trying to explain the problems with PvP and why you want new content.. His responses are just attacks on "trammelites" and how stupid those players are and how he wants to take away from their play-style.
You can tell that you really want more PvP and you can tell that he was just wanting spots for more PvM players tobe at so he has a chance to kill more.. If he was after more PvP content he would of suggested adding a new Ilsh that is in the Fel rule set, while keeping the tram Ilsh for PvM players to play how they want..Like someone else in this post said they should do.. Instead his idea is to take a whole facet away from PvM players and try to force more to have to enter PvP landscape who dont want to...


""The problem is, because most of you don't do it, you've probably never competed in your life in any sort of event, you don't get it.
You don't know how to win, or how to handle losing"" I am far far far from that lol.. I was an athlete my whole life who played in countless competetive leagues. I was a college scholarship baseball player and wrestler. I know all about competing ...


"Prizes--- One way to create this, is to have something truly meaningful to fight over, and an entire environment that allows anything to happen in""
This is why I suggested trying to talk with the developers about adding new champ spawns that are just PvP related.. To help give you guys the environment that PvP players are looking for.. I go to or read the transcripts for pretty much every meet and greet they do in game.. There is pretty much no one ever coming there and asking or giving any ideas on how to improve PvP or add to its content... I rarely have ever seen anyone there to help and try to suggest stuff to them to enrich the PvP landscape.. When I do see PvP related questions its usually people asking for something to be nerfed or for the tamer pet nerf to be reversed. Never any real questions/suggestions to the team on how to improve the PvP play-style..

Especially when you add the - "you don't know me, but I know you very well" line - how lame is that seriously?

I was actually typing fast and trying to make it a quick post. that should have read "You know me, and I know you very well" My crafters name is the same as my stratics name. My crafter named Ducan Ironweaver has been in more then one guild/alliances with him aswell as my other players. He is just playing like he no longer knows me somehow. My crafter has been one of the biggest crafters ever on Catskills. I have made an insane amount of suits and weapons since day one of the game. Im not trying to say that im the most popular person ever. But anyone who has ever played on Catskills for an extended period of time most likely knows me and who I am..

 

[Ducan IronWeaver]

The "Thrill" of PvP.

That's exactly it - it happens - it is spontaneous, it is real, real emotions are the result and the entire point and fun of it, winning and losing matter for a few brief moments, like the Champions League final last night. 2 grown men came off crying last night, because they had their dream stolen from them, 1 guy will almost certainly lose his job as goalkeeper he was so bad, 1 guy became a hero.

You almost cannot organise it, you cannot box it up, this is my issue with war guilds, war mode, taking away Felucca rulesets and turning everything into a nice politically correct environment.
PvP events most often fail, even though some great individuals give it a great effort, because the PvPers aren't feeling it, it is too synthesised to be able to produce anything meaningful and therefore becomes boring. It is the difference between real or processed food - people can tell the difference, and to some people, it really matters.

Im not trying to troll here and seriously asking b/c I dont understand why the guild wars option would not give you spontaneous and real emotions about battling in PvP..
If PvP players started making guilds that only have their PvP players in and then take those guilds and goto war with each other. Would this not give you the content you are looking for with making anywhere you go in game now Fel rule set?
This would not be taking away Fel rule set. Wouldn't this now be adding to it and giving you the Fel rule set anywhere you go in game now?
Wouldn't this now allow you to attack or be attacked spontaneously anywhere that you are at? And give you that PvP rush that you guys are after? Wouldn't going to war give you un organized and unboxed PvP?


I have also seen people asking for Fel only shards. Isn't Siege allready a Fel only shard?
I have never really played over there, except for a crafter who i used to craft stuff for players and sell for off-shard gold..
But doesnt the entire Siege shard act as Fel where anyone can be killed anywhere? What would be the differences between Siege and a Fel only shard if they made one?
I know the 1 character per shard sucks, but with endless journey cant you just create acouple free accounts and have the extra characters needed?
Would it be possible to try and get the developers to add afew more slots to the siege shard after all these years? If anything maybe like a code to add more spots to siege like the 7th chracter slot code..

Again not trying to troll here, genuinely trying to understand why these options aren't a option

 

[Lord Frodo]

@railshot give it a rest we all know that the "PvPer" only want exclusive content under a Fel rule set because that is the only way they can get anybody to come play with them. If PvP went to a switch system where all UO players could go anywhere in UO, including Reds, there would be no one for the "PvPers" to play with. PvP without lures would die and they are to afraid to admit it.

 

[Lord Frodo]

@Ducan IronWeaver Yes SP is a Fel only shard but it is to hard for the "PvPersP because they can't have insurance. SP has invited them numerous times and they say no.

 

[drcossack]

@railshot give it a rest we all know that the "PvPer" only want exclusive content under a Fel rule set because that is the only way they can get anybody to come play with them. If PvP went to a switch system where all UO players could go anywhere in UO, including Reds, there would be no one for the "PvPers" to play with. PvP without lures would die and they are to afraid to admit it.

No, we want new exclusive content in Fel because it's been 16 years since we had anything worthwhile/new, which was with Publish 16. 16 ******* years. For reference, once again I'm quoting myself. This time I'll add the dates of when Trammel got its new content from publishes/expansions:

1) Exodus - Ilshenar, 2012
2) Shadowguard - Time of Legends, 2015
3) Tram Despise - 2012
4) Underwater boss - 2013
5) Doom - Age of Shadows, 2003
6) The ENTIRE Stygian Abyss dungeon - Medusa, Slasher, Stygian Dragon - 2009
7) The Titan town invasions from a couple months ago.
8) EM Events. You'll occasionally get an event in Fel, but they are very few and far between.
9) Some Tram-ruleset exclusive Champ Spawns and Peerless: Twisted Weald, Bedlam, Interred Grizzle, Labyrinth, Tokuno champ - the ML Peerless/Dungeons were added in 2005, the Tokuno Champ with the Samurai Empire launch in 2004

Feel free to ignore it again, just like you have been. Oh, for good measure, I'll throw in Kyronix's post from the UO forums, so you can ignore it one more time:

Just so I'm understanding correctly - your suggestion is to remove Felucca as a rulset from all shards (except Siege & Mugen). Everyone is then presented with an opt-in for open PvP across all facets?

This is basically how VvV works, We were apprehensive about allowing VvV in Trammel-rulsesets and ultimately decided against it after weighing the pros and cons. Your suggestion presents a similar, if not more expansive, list of concerns that make this type of change very unlikely. I do however appreciate your contribution and furthering of the discussion! That's what forums are for!

You keep saying we won't pvp without lures? Then why the **** does Yew Gate get so much activity? Believe it or not, some people PREFER objective-based pvp (which is why we do spawns), instead of the "Quick fix" we'd get from Yew Gate (which is often nothing more than a gankfest from random people who are too cowardly to flag on someone otherwise, because they'd get destroyed.)

I've done fighting in Tram against other guilds. Do you know what happened? When the war was first accepted (by the other guild), they ambushed us in Luna and quickly killed us, because of the surprise factor. For the rest of that week, there were multiple fights. If there was a "pvp switch", it would hurt us more than anything. Sure, I wouldn't lose anything of consequence if I kept it on, but I do frequently sit afk in Luna on multiple chars, some of which are pvp-oriented. I wouldn't be able to do that with your "pvp switch" idea, because someone who also has it toggled to "on" would come and kill me while I was afk.

@Ducan IronWeaver Yes SP is a Fel only shard but it is to hard for the "PvPersP because they can't have insurance. SP has invited them numerous times and they say no.

...except some people already HAVE characters on Siege. That they do not play for various reasons:
1) The 1 character per account limit. We're not interested in getting our hands on 50 million soulstones just to store a variety of skills.
2) The "pvp" over there is nothing but stealth dismounters. I, for one, have zero interest in that.

 

[OREOGL]

@railshot give it a rest we all know that the "PvPer" only want exclusive content under a Fel rule set because that is the only way they can get anybody to come play with them. If PvP went to a switch system where all UO players could go anywhere in UO, including Reds, there would be no one for the "PvPers" to play with. PvP without lures would die and they are to afraid to admit it.

Yes, give it a rest. The easy button isn't going to happen.

 

[OREOGL]

@Ducan IronWeaver Yes SP is a Fel only shard but it is to hard for the "PvPersP because they can't have insurance. SP has invited them numerous times and they say no.

Most of your posts are devoid of sound reasoning and critical thinking, despite even being presented with facts.

At this point you're merely trolling.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Im not trying to troll here and seriously asking b/c I dont understand why the guild wars option would not give you spontaneous and real emotions about battling in PvP..
(1)
If PvP players started making guilds that only have their PvP players in and then take those guilds and goto war with each other. Would this not give you the content you are looking for with making anywhere you go in game now Fel rule set?
This would not be taking away Fel rule set. Wouldn't this now be adding to it and giving you the Fel rule set anywhere you go in game now?
Wouldn't this now allow you to attack or be attacked spontaneously anywhere that you are at? And give you that PvP rush that you guys are after? Wouldn't going to war give you un organized and unboxed PvP?

(2)
I have also seen people asking for Fel only shards. Isn't Siege allready a Fel only shard?
I have never really played over there, except for a crafter who i used to craft stuff for players and sell for off-shard gold..
But doesnt the entire Siege shard act as Fel where anyone can be killed anywhere? What would be the differences between Siege and a Fel only shard if they made one?
I know the 1 character per shard sucks, but with endless journey cant you just create acouple free accounts and have the extra characters needed?
Would it be possible to try and get the developers to add afew more slots to the siege shard after all these years? If anything maybe like a code to add more spots to siege like the 7th chracter slot code..

Again not trying to troll here, genuinely trying to understand why these options aren't a option

Hi Duncan,

(1) - It's a bit like the creation of Trammel all over again. It's splitting the playerbase. You would have to "choose" whether to go into the war guilds, which makes it not the main game ruleset. People could skip the option, choose easy-mode, and of course they would. This means not everyone is in the same boat. It gives rise to a 2 tiered system of playing - which causes inbalance. One system is easier to play than the other, so a majority of people would play it, benefit from it, and unbalance the entire game by doing so. If you were in a "war guild", it would not affect every interaction ingame, only a few. It is completely boxed up and synthesised.

(2) I wasn't pushing for them to change Siege, although yes, if they added more character slots, changed the skill training method, and added insurance, yes, it would be it.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Hello there Mr, Cookie *Waves* First I would just like to point out that I have absolutely no problem with Fel and its rule set. I have zero problems with getting killed there by another player. I have zero problems with being raided and killed. I could careless about dieing, I have billions in gold losing Insurance money is not a problem for me. Being killed is not a problem for me I knew the risk of entering fel and am fine with it.. I also do believe Fel needs more stuff and even posted that If I was a PvPer I would try to ask the dev's for a new champ spawn or two that is pretty much strictly for PvPers... Have the rewards that drop on those bosses be rewards that PvP players could use.. Instead of having them drop automatic level 7 maps b/c i dont want to take the time to farm them.... I think they should add new champ bosses that would drop items that would specifically benefit PvP players only.. This would give PvP player new content and it would attract only players who want to PvP and give you guys something to fight over and bring you the type of fun that you want... This is just a game and I want everyone to have as much fun as they can while playing the play-style that they enjoy...

The problem I had was reading a guy going on and on about how only losers goto spawns to kill PvM players and "real" Fel players don't do that... When I know for a fact that said player absolutely loved doing that..That is the only reason why I called him out on it.. Not b/c I have a problem with PvP players or Fel or another players play-style.. I was just calling bullsh*t when I saw it..





Again I called out one guy specifically, bc he is claiming that he isn't about just killing PvM players and that only real losers do that.. When in fact that was how he played.. I've been there in his chats as he is yelling that someone is soloing a spawn so he needs back up and other players to come down to take there boss... I have also been on the other end of being the guy soloing and having him come in with 2 other guys just to kill me for the boss. If he was really after the PvP and not just killing a PvM guy for his boss, like he was claiming he never does.. Then he wouldn't be killing that player(Never Solo mind you) and then going straight to the island and proceed to wall it up, kill the boss, run thru star room and then scream in general chat about how he just got a 120 magery and you suck and are so bad.. I have played with and been raided by players who are really after actual PvP. They dont just run to the island and wall it off so there is no longer any PvP at that spawn. They would leave the boss alone and not even touch it. They would tell you to go rez and come back. they would tell you to call in more friends for more fights.. Some would even rez you themselves and heal you. Then say go on bud ill give you a bit to run and we can go again.....


His argument also really wasn't an argument or ideas about adding to PvP. His Idea and argument is take away a whole facet that is extremely busy now with PvM players.. Especially with the new taming. I run around ilsh and it is loaded with players looking for different pets or popping the champs. Tons of Oak's get popped on Catskills. His argument wasn't to add to the PvP experience. He just wants to take away from PvM players. Add more places that are Fel rule set to attract more PvM players for him to kill.. Look at his #5 idea to make PvP better "This will make the trammelites angry and me smile".. He just wants more PvM players in areas were he can kill them and not actual PvP..


I have been reading your post in UoHall about trying to improve Fel aswell.. Look at the difference between the two of your ideas and how you are answering other players. You have been extremely kind and have been answering questions from PvM players and actually trying to explain the problems with PvP and why you want new content.. His responses are just attacks on "trammelites" and how stupid those players are and how he wants to take away from their play-style.
You can tell that you really want more PvP and you can tell that he was just wanting spots for more PvM players tobe at so he has a chance to kill more.. If he was after more PvP content he would of suggested adding a new Ilsh that is in the Fel rule set, while keeping the tram Ilsh for PvM players to play how they want..Like someone else in this post said they should do.. Instead his idea is to take a whole facet away from PvM players and try to force more to have to enter PvP landscape who dont want to...


""The problem is, because most of you don't do it, you've probably never competed in your life in any sort of event, you don't get it.
You don't know how to win, or how to handle losing"" I am far far far from that lol.. I was an athlete my whole life who played in countless competetive leagues. I was a college scholarship baseball player and wrestler. I know all about competing ...


"Prizes--- One way to create this, is to have something truly meaningful to fight over, and an entire environment that allows anything to happen in""
This is why I suggested trying to talk with the developers about adding new champ spawns that are just PvP related.. To help give you guys the environment that PvP players are looking for.. I go to or read the transcripts for pretty much every meet and greet they do in game.. There is pretty much no one ever coming there and asking or giving any ideas on how to improve PvP or add to its content... I rarely have ever seen anyone there to help and try to suggest stuff to them to enrich the PvP landscape.. When I do see PvP related questions its usually people asking for something to be nerfed or for the tamer pet nerf to be reversed. Never any real questions/suggestions to the team on how to improve the PvP play-style..




I was actually typing fast and trying to make it a quick post. that should have read "You know me, and I know you very well" My crafters name is the same as my stratics name. My crafter named Ducan Ironweaver has been in more then one guild/alliances with him aswell as my other players. He is just playing like he no longer knows me somehow. My crafter has been one of the biggest crafters ever on Catskills. I have made an insane amount of suits and weapons since day one of the game. Im not trying to say that im the most popular person ever. But anyone who has ever played on Catskills for an extended period of time most likely knows me and who I am..

A lot to respond to here, and apologies for my original tone to you - your posts do come across well to be fair.
It was cool seeing about your sports history.

The way I often see it, is people can behave one way in the game, and another way out of it.
On the forums, unless you are a complete troll, it is worth reading the argument a person puts forward, and separating that from their ingame persona - as they can be very different.
Did you know for example, quite often Doctors, Neurosurgeons, and people who spend their lives helping and healing others, when ingame often prefer to be PK's...
It is a fantasy world of escapism for them, and many of us - and that is the entire point of these games.
That's why I was annoyed when you tackled the player instead of the ball.


And onto football, I love my footy.
40 seconds in on this one, where Messi goes for Sergio Ramos, made me laugh.

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

Once again, a reply that consists primarily of insults, with little in the way of substance. With regard to your attempt to reply to me in particular you seem to be taking every metric I used to capably demonstrate that Trammel was more successful than Felucca and somehow trying to recast it to show that the opposite is true. What you left out, however, is explaining the mechanism by which (by way of example) 2+2 is actually 5, instead of 4. You've just asserted it. (I'm reminded of a log ago incident in Fel, wherein someone posted a screencap of me standing over someone's freshly killed corpse saying that somehow me standing over my fresh kill meant that I was in league with the person I'd just killed.)

As but one example, consider this: You say that it's content that brings players in. Yet you point out that Trammel copied Felucca and didn't add much content. True, but that by definition works against the argument you want to make, because people left Fel in droves when offered nothing but the chance to play without being required to PvP or worse.

Which of course is the point. To paraphrase you: It's the Felucca mentality, simply put. A mentality most players of most games simply don't want to put up with. Some of the details are in the thread requesting a Fel shard.

the stable supply and demand?

Powerscrolls are expensive for the same reason the other items are... it has absolutely NOTHING to do with them coming from Fel.

The other items keep getting expensive because no ones f***ing farming them you Derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp. I can't believe it took you so long to figure this out, it has been said by literally everyone posting here... in just about every thread talking about it.


The reason we (Pvpers) do not want powerscrolls to drop in Trammel, is because Fel would have no incentive to go with its content, the content already exists elswhere without the Risk of players raiding.

This is also why, the creators/devolopers at the time, made this mistake.



The thing this genius fails to realize, the reason Trammel was a success (over fel) is because it was an exact Copy of Fel with none of the risks.
It was a quick fix, to some at-the-moment issues.... and it's become a much larger problem than it had been anticipated.

The Addition to Powerscrolls dropping in Fel only, is evidence of that.
the small Incentive bonuses following, as well. Double Resources, more recently bonus of 1000 luck. Yew gate hasn't gone anywhere... people still pvp there, we've just been funneled by the f***ing economy to Atlantic & Europa shards.... PVP only works if there are people around after all.

If Trammel had been a completely different facet, with different content, regardless it were "Trammel" rules or not it would have been a true success. except it would have been so, without dividing and eventually removing the playstyles that could ONLY thrive in a fel-based rule system..

Use the rise in population, and give credit solely to Trammel..... Incase you haven't noticed.... EVERY EXPANSION Attracts more people.... It's the draw of New Content.... it doesn't matter where it's at.
what matters is the longevity of that content.... it simply doesn't last as long as in Trammel as it does in Fel.


The guy listed some of the issues such as Server-loads causing Crashing & lag etc... sure they were real issues (lag still is at times), Creating more shards & new facets could fix that (they did both...)... Those things had nothing to do with Fel vs Trammel. Absolutely nothing thus it's completely irrelevant to this conversation.

Griefing, there have been numerous precautions taken over the years to prevent most unwanted griefing. Soon to come, the trade window delay.... Blame Fel! - give us a break.

House Keys, being stolen or taken from your body. This cannot happen anymore, even in fel.... I guess it was because of Trammel? not even close.

There's a big difference between PKs & Pvp, and an even bigger difference between those and Griefing...

Trammies simply don't understand, why? It's the Trammel mentality. simply put.

 

[CovenantX]

Yet you point out that Trammel copied Felucca and didn't add much content. True, but that by definition works against the argument you want to make, because people left Fel in droves when offered nothing but the chance to play without being required to PvP or worse.

That's what I said... people left Fel because there was nothing in Fel that wasn't in Trammel... Trammel's Only Offer was to play without risk, everything else was exactly the same. Who wouldn't take the risk-free area when you received nothing for the risk on the other side in first place? That's my point, Trammel could not have failed with the path the Devs took with it.

Hence why it was a big deal of those two facets being a "Copy" of each other, instead of something different.

So, why did the Devs add powerscrolls to Fel-only if it wasn't true?

Why are they trying to think of ways to make fel more attractive? (1000 luck bonus, double resources) - these two bonuses don't really attract the kinds of people we (Pvpers) want, but at least it incentivizes the content in fel for other pvpers as opposed to just farming in tram because other players can't stop you.

 

[drcossack]

As but one example, consider this: You say that it's content that brings players in. Yet you point out that Trammel copied Felucca and didn't add much content. True, but that by definition works against the argument you want to make, because people left Fel in droves when offered nothing but the chance to play without being required to PvP or worse.

Which of course is the point. To paraphrase you: It's the Felucca mentality, simply put. A mentality most players of most games simply don't want to put up with. Some of the details are in the thread requesting a Fel shard.

And what's happened to UO since? You say Trammel was a success because people could do whatever without the "consequence" of pvp...but was it, really? The only thing Trammel really did was make it possible for afk farming. You can't do it in Fel, because players do look for it, and will kill the afk'ers.

The "Feluccan mentality" is a mentality most players won't put up with? Really? Then why do so many games OFFER pvp? Here's a few: UO. WoW. Final Fantasy 11 is still played, although it's no longer available on consoles. Final Fantasy 14 (although this is a bad example, as the pvp isn't very good), and others are literally nothing BUT pvp: Overwatch, League, Heroes of the Storm, Fortnite.

All of those older games listed, outside of UO, are still popular - I don't know the subscription #s for FF11 or WoW, as I've never played either. But FF14 just added a new patch last week, so there was a fair amount of activity, likely due to many returning players.

Did you stop to think and ask yourself WHY this is the case? FF14 adds a new raid tier every 6 months, and I'll even see a lot of lower level players when I'm in the game's starting cities (although they could be people leveling alt characters) - the current one started at the end of January, so it'll be wrapping up next month/early July. In contrast, what has UO added in the past 6 months? Publish 98 was temporary seasonal content (which was more or less recycled from previous years), and Publish 99 was Endless Journey. How many new players did either one bring in? I would guess that both Pub 98 and 99 brought back nothing but former players - in my guild alone, we had 3 people come back because of EJ.

 

[railshot]

(1) - It's a bit like the creation of Trammel all over again. It's splitting the playerbase. You would have to "choose" whether to go into the war guilds, which makes it not the main game ruleset. People could skip the option, choose easy-mode, and of course they would.

Translation: PVP needs to be forced on everyone. If it isn't, people would avoid it and "PvPers" will have nobody to kill.

 

[drcossack]

Translation: PVP needs to be forced on everyone. If it isn't, people would avoid it and "PvPers" will have nobody to kill.

Yes, that's exactly what you're trying to accomplish by removing it from Fel and making it consensual only, which Kyronix has said isn't going to happen. Next.

 

[petemage]

I remember a lot of fun trips with my friends I had in Ilsh.

That being said, none of them would have happended if Ilsh was fel ruleset.

Best way to kill the facet for everyone but some two dozen PvPers.

Can't take that thread here as anything but trolling.

 

[petemage]

And what's happened to UO since? You say Trammel was a success because people could do whatever without the "consequence" of pvp...but was it, really? The only thing Trammel really did was make it possible for afk farming. You can't do it in Fel, because players do look for it, and will kill the afk'ers.

If there was no Trammel, I would have never kept paying this game for years. But since UO is a charity, let's not talk about business or money, right?

 

[petemage]

@railshot give it a rest we all know that the "PvPer" only want exclusive content under a Fel rule set because that is the only way they can get anybody to come play with them. If PvP went to a switch system where all UO players could go anywhere in UO, including Reds, there would be no one for the "PvPers" to play with. PvP without lures would die and they are to afraid to admit it.

Pretty much point on. Good luck trying to get it across though..

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Translation: PVP needs to be forced on everyone. If it isn't, people would avoid it and "PvPers" will have nobody to kill.

Translation - the same ruleset should be in place for all of the players on a shard - or you get an unbalance in the game environment. A duel ruleset causes too much conflict in playstyles in and out of game. Especially when one side thinks the other side is getting everything.....

You are being deliberately obtuse by keep bringing this around to an anti pvp statement.

{Yourself and Frodo have no logical arguments left, so you keep on repeating the same old tired mantras that are not backed up by any facts).

Give us a proper Feluccan shard ruleset if you are so determined we are trying to force pvp on everyone, then everyone can make a real and defined choice - and no-one is forced to pvp.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Pretty much point on. Good luck trying to get it across though..

You've won your point.
We are only trying to force our playstyle on everyone, and it's a terrible playstyle, and you should not be forced into it.


How about giving us a pure Feluccan server, where we don't force our playstyle upon innocents?

 

[petemage]

You've won your point.
We are only trying to force our playstyle on everyone, and it's a terrible playstyle, and you should not be forced into it.


How about giving us a pure Feluccan server, where we don't force our playstyle upon innocents?

Well, I didn't say it's terrible, but I can agree that I have no interest to be forced into it.

As for a fel server, just go for it. I have no horse in this race and would likely not play it at all. I'm quite enjoying the trammel life on Atlantic here.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Well, I didn't say it's terrible, but I can agree that I have no interest to be forced into it.

As for a fel server, just go for it. I have no horse in this race and would likely not play it at all. I'm quite enjoying the trammel live on Atlantic here

A fine response, thank you - and fine, each to their own.

Why would players keep on suggesting we are trying to force pvp on others, when one of the most popular suggestions is to separate the playstyles properly to allow more freedom and choice for all?
Nevermind, it's a rhetorical question, you don't have to respond.

I will keep on plugging away, trying to improve the game for a group of players who see things more the way I do.
If you don't see it my way, that is fine, you do your thing, I'll do mine.

 

[North_LS]

Sorry, I can't help it when I see nonsense posted.

Repeating it does not help. It just continues to demonstrate your lack of understanding of basic economics. No, the price for every scroll would not go up. The increased demand drove the initial price hike. PvPers are to blame for the prices never going down again, because supply could not catch up with demand. Nobody wanted Throwing before the publish, and nobody wanted it after. Since the demand never increased, there was no reason for prices for Throwing to go up.

What do you expect to happen? The demand went through the roof with the pet publish, but nobody really wants to bother contributing to the supply except people who were already doing it. The content is ready and waiting, you just arent doing it. Its not hard to bang out a spawn here and there, but a lot of the folks driving demand don't want to bother - they just want to buy the scrolls they want at pre-demand prices. If you want to work on correcting the market, hit a green rune and farm some scrolls. Be prepared to sort through a lot of trash scrolls before you get ones you want, but every one you pull adds one to the market that wasn't there before. Organize others into groups to do the same. Prices will be down before you know it if you get enough people contributing. When you actually go and do the content instead of obsessing over all the ways doing the content might go wrong, you'll be surprised how things work out. If it doesnt go well, figure out why and adapt - if it does, book those scrolls and go get more.

in regards to possibility of ilsh spawns giving scrolls, i'll take a remote chance of being disrupted by other players any day over dealing with guaranteed paragon spawn.

 

[railshot]

Translation - the same ruleset should be in place for all of the players on a shard - or you get an unbalance in the game environment. A duel ruleset causes too much conflict in playstyles in and out of game. Especially when one side thinks the other side is getting everything.....
.

If having the same ruleset throughout the shard is such a priority for you, then make it a Trammel ruleset. After all there are vastly more Trammel players than Fel players.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

If having the same ruleset throughout the shard is such a priority for you, then make it a Trammel ruleset. After all there are vastly more Trammel players than Fel players.

I've already agreed that would be fair for players who really want that.

But are you trying to force me to play a ruleset against my will?
(Which is already happening by the way, I've just decided enough is enough now, I was prepared to take it up to a point until certain Trammies didn't stop whining about how our playstyle affects yours).

Is it really you trying to force a playstyle upon others, and not me, and you've been prevaricating all this time, throwing shade, throwing distractions in?

Would you support me in an effort to reach a better playstyle for myself and many others, that doesn't force you into anything?

 

[railshot]

Why would players keep on suggesting we are trying to force pvp on others, when one of the most popular suggestions is to separate the playstyles properly to allow more freedom and choice for all?

Um, maybe because you vehemently resist allowing PvMers access to scrolls without having to be exposed to PvP?
For the record, I don't have a problem with a Fel only shard as well. I'd love a Tram only shard too, but we all know, neither is going to happen.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Um, maybe because you vehemently resist allowing PvMers access to scrolls without having to be exposed to PvP?
For the record, I don't have a problem with a Fel only shard as well. I'd love a Tram only shard too, but we all know, neither is going to happen.

I resist, because the inbalance is therefore too great, not because I am trying to expose you to pvp.
If you read my posts clearly enough, you would know, but all you do, is keep repeating the same tired lines about forcing you to pvp.
If Trammel had access to powerscrolls on top of Shadowguard, Doom, Illshenar, Kotl City, Malas, Gargoyle lands, and all their artifacts, it leaves Felucca with practically nothing - and this is a direction the game has gone in for far too long.
Having ignored us for far too long, we are still here, and in far greater numbers than you can imagine - enough to fill a server - and in fact grow the game with new players is my belief. The reason for my thinking - is whereas you believe so many players left because of Felucca, my perspective is that so many players left because of Trammel. We could get them back for starters, and cater to both playstyles.

For your second part - why is it not going to happen, if it is a positive game changer, adding a server (or two), may not be too hard for them?
Get behind me, and push for it.
Or go and do some champ spawns.

 

[drcossack]

Um, maybe because you vehemently resist allowing PvMers access to scrolls without having to be exposed to PvP?

We've said why. How many times do we have to repeat the reason for you to get it? Your ENTIRE argument is shut down by the following:
1) People are doing spawns without needing to pvp. This is actually happening on multiple shards. Every ****ing day. You can even *gasp* DO THIS ON ATLANTIC.

But let's put your argument in reverse for a second, shall we? I want (at least) one full set of Cameos for 11 of the US Shards to use for EM Events (I know GL does weekly events on Tuesday, but I have a weekly RL commitment and can't make those. Not sure when the GL EM runs other events), and in all likelihood, I would extend that to TWO full sets, because I'd be dual-clienting each event. That's 66 (or 132) Cameos.

To get them, I have the following choices:
1) Farm them for myself. Which would take quite a while.
2) Buy them. But I'll be spending an insane amount of gold on this, a much larger amount than I would for every powerscroll I'd need to eat to make pvp chars on all East Coast shards. Cameos go for 100m+.

Given the cost involved, you can say that I'm being forced to pvm, can't you? Do you want to know the reason why the cost for a Cameo is so high? It's because nobody is doing Shadowguard (which is evident when you look at how the prices of Cameos haven't gone down in the past 3 years.) The same applies for Medusa and Doom, who have items that are the same price as the (Repond and Demon) Cameos. There are people on Atl who sell the Scholar's Halo for OVER 200m, although I can't say for certain how successful they are. That lack of people doing content is why Powerscroll prices haven't gone down since the pet revamp. Maybe you should grab an Economics 101 textbook and brush up on it.

All the pvp'ers want is more exclusive content in Fel that's WORTH DOING. We've long been starved for it because the game caters to the Trammel ruleset, and has since its inception. Why, to this day, do people still do champ spawns? It's BECAUSE of the chance to pvp. If scrolls were added to Trammel like you want, how long would people run the Tram champs? Probably for a few days before they realize how much of a grind it is to get 120's. Then it would be dead content like everything else in Trammel.

@North_LS, @CovenantX, and myself are all saying the same thing. But your head is so deep in the sand on the issue, that you refuse to listen to reason. You are acting like a child in a grocery store that started crying because their parents wouldn't buy them a candy bar while they're checking out.

 

[petemage]

Why, to this day, do people still do champ spawns? It's BECAUSE of the chance to pvp.

Generalization much, huh? I do spawns randomly for the fun and to get a bit into the dexxer playstyle. I've never done any spawn for the PvP. Some do champ spawns for the PvP, others do not.

 

[McKinneley]

It's been over 15 years and people are still complaining about Trammel? Look, Trammel was introduced because the vast majority of players didn't enjoy the Fel ruleset, which is obvious because 15 years later the vast majority of players still avoid it like the plague. Insurance was introduced because the vast majority of players do not enjoy losing items that they worked hard to acquire. This was exacerbated by the introduction of items with stats and bonuses that were actually worth something. The majority of PvP was done with crafted weapons and armor prior to AoS.

UO is a different game now than it was 15 years ago. MMOs in general are different now as well. WoW is clearly the most successful MMO and PvP was practically always consensual, aside from PvP servers which were not occupied by the majority of players. And even if you died, you didn't really lose anything other than some time.

The simple fact of the matter is that PvP in UO in it's current state is basically PKing or preying on the weak. There is no PvP for PvPs sake. Order / Chaos and Factions were good PvP systems for the most part, they were opt-in for the players, and they had bragging rights / rewards for winning.

The comparison earlier in this thread to EvE Online is a funny one to me. If you knew anything about EvE you would also know that it peaked maybe a decade ago. The game is slowly dying, because the vast majority of current MMO gamers do not like game systems where they can lose the things that they acquire and work hard to get.

Making any facet into a Fel ruleset doesn't help the game in any way. It will cause the area to become mostly empty, as most players don't want to participate in non-consensual PvP. What this thread is really about, is PKers wanting more lucrative hunting grounds. If your desire is really to increate PvP activity, in a natural non-planned way, then you should be giving suggestions on new PvP systems that would provide tangible rewards for those that participate and win. I don't think that PvP will ever have a revival in this game. The armor and weapon properties and the unbalanced playing field make it incredibly unenjoyable for those that aren't already at the top of the ladder.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

It's been over 15 years and people are still complaining about Trammel? Look, Trammel was introduced because the vast majority of players didn't enjoy the Fel ruleset, which is obvious because 15 years later the vast majority of players still avoid it like the plague. Insurance was introduced because the vast majority of players do not enjoy losing items that they worked hard to acquire. This was exacerbated by the introduction of items with stats and bonuses that were actually worth something. The majority of PvP was done with crafted weapons and armor prior to AoS.

UO is a different game now than it was 15 years ago. MMOs in general are different now as well. WoW is clearly the most successful MMO and PvP was practically always consensual, aside from PvP servers which were not occupied by the majority of players. And even if you died, you didn't really lose anything other than some time.

The simple fact of the matter is that PvP in UO in it's current state is basically PKing or preying on the weak. There is no PvP for PvPs sake. Order / Chaos and Factions were good PvP systems for the most part, they were opt-in for the players, and they had bragging rights / rewards for winning.

The comparison earlier in this thread to EvE Online is a funny one to me. If you knew anything about EvE you would also know that it peaked maybe a decade ago. The game is slowly dying, because the vast majority of current MMO gamers do not like game systems where they can lose the things that they acquire and work hard to get.

Making any facet into a Fel ruleset doesn't help the game in any way. It will cause the area to become mostly empty, as most players don't want to participate in non-consensual PvP. What this thread is really about, is PKers wanting more lucrative hunting grounds. If your desire is really to increate PvP activity, in a natural non-planned way, then you should be giving suggestions on new PvP systems that would provide tangible rewards for those that participate and win. I don't think that PvP will ever have a revival in this game. The armor and weapon properties and the unbalanced playing field make it incredibly unenjoyable for those that aren't already at the top of the ladder.

15 years hey?
Just shows how big a mistake it was?
(For a certain playergroup).

Re Eve by the way, I've read reports it is picking up again, these things go in phases.
Re WoW, I and many others played it, for (8) years - we left, because it got boring - same old grind. It attracted so many people, because it was done in a HUGE way, and Blizzard really do things properly when they do them, backed by a lot of money.

Forget the Ilshenar to Felucca ruleset for a moment - how about a pure Feluccan shard with all landmasses and content?
If we just want more lucrative hunting grounds, why am I asking to be separated from Trammel?
{I want equality between players, I want to revive obsolete playstyles, I want to reset, rebalance and fix the economy, I want to promote the closest thing to the original playstyle that we can}.
How about, instead of keep pushing your viewpoint based on zero facts, we just find out?
(None of us have a crystal ball, or have any real facts on this).
Lets stop all the mudslinging, and just give us what we want?
It's no skin off your nose, or are you actually afraid we may end up having far more fun, and it may be successful?
It seems like that sometimes you know - a certain group, are just trying to force us to play in a certain way, to maintain their playstyle.