A mass exodus from the game with 20 people leaving for every 1 coming in yeah those were real glory days before tramUO had it's issues back then, grefing over population to name a few, but my information is still correct.
A mass exodus from the game with 20 people leaving for every 1 coming in yeah those were real glory days before tramUO had it's issues back then, grefing over population to name a few, but my information is still correct.
Problem is most of the PvP community are not PvPs they are PKs with no one to PK and are bored.I like to go mining for saltpetre in Ilsh on my crafter, I wouldn't be going there any more if I was likely to get attacked. I know people who love pvp want to have fun too, but surely slaughtering helpless people isn't any challenge. The Devs need to find some way to get the PvP community fighting each other, with challenge and a reward. Not stuff they stole from people who can't defend themselves. A reward for having some skill.
Problem is that no-matter what reward they introduce everyone want's it, take FX VvV, When VvV were introduced the entire PVM horde and their grandmothers ventured to towns to get points. After a while everyone had the rewards they wanted, So therefor no one had any desire to fight over towns, and as it is now 99% of VvV is all about being able to attack people in VvV without going red, and of cause having a mount you can res without vet.I like to go mining for saltpetre in Ilsh on my crafter, I wouldn't be going there any more if I was likely to get attacked. I know people who love pvp want to have fun too, but surely slaughtering helpless people isn't any challenge. The Devs need to find some way to get the PvP community fighting each other, with challenge and a reward. Not stuff they stole from people who can't defend themselves. A reward for having some skill.
Don't forget how expensive it was to be on dialup, and how often the server crashed + you had to pay the monthly fee as well.A mass exodus from the game with 20 people leaving for every 1 coming in yeah those were real glory days before tram
One way the devs could fix it ,open all lands to all. All they have to do is make so that Reds can only attack reds,that way land is open to all and the people that are PvP can PvP and the blue miners like yourself can mine and feel safe from attack from the PvPers.I like to go mining for saltpetre in Ilsh on my crafter, I wouldn't be going there any more if I was likely to get attacked. I know people who love pvp want to have fun too, but surely slaughtering helpless people isn't any challenge. The Devs need to find some way to get the PvP community fighting each other, with challenge and a reward. Not stuff they stole from people who can't defend themselves. A reward for having some skill.
You can go to Blackthorns and bypass doing any of the Peerless to get a Crimmy, and bypass going to the Underworld for a Tangle.PVP is part of the content UO offers to its players. It can be avoided by simply not going to felucca. If you choose to not go to felucca, you choose to not be able to access all the content. I fail to see the point of the powerscroll dilemma. As I try to wrap my head around it... it seems as though people want access to all the content with immunity from some of the content (i.e felucca) Where else in the game is this possible? Please give me an example of one instance where in game I could get what I wanted without having to go to where I needed to go, in order to obtain it. The only thing that comes to mind is the in-game store... Would you buy the scrolls you wanted if they offered them in the in-game store?
Didn't realize GT40s were that crappy!You cant compare todays UO with pre-AoS. Its like comparing a T-model Ford to a GT40. If you havnt done fel content or pvp since then you have no idea what your talking about. Change like my idea is needed for upgrading and making the game better as a whole. If you cant look at it as a idea and just want to bash pvper's then stop posting in this thread, its not for you.
I havent read all this thread but on the whole pvp is the ultimate end point for any MMO surely? And having been a pure pvper [in another MMO not in uo] for six of the last ten years I can say that pvp beats all other content for adrenaline rush/excitement.Usually they have people protecting them, and sometimes some are actually not bad at fighting back (and I am not that good). When they just run around and not fight back it isn't fun really, when that happens I leave them usually so they come back. I've also had them come back with their PvPers or friends and masacre me. So you'd be surprised how intense and fun it can get.
Not everyone plays games for that reason. Many of us play to unwind and relax... socialize... enjoy the community... Build... collect... etc...I havent read all this thread but on the whole pvp is the ultimate end point for any MMO surely? And having been a pure pvper [in another MMO not in uo] for six of the last ten years I can say that pvp beats all other content for adrenaline rush/excitement.
So you want pvp removed from the game entirely? No.New Make Felucca Trammel ruleset then.
Pretty much what @MalagAste said. No, PvP is not the ultimate endpoint for any MMO. There are plenty of successful MMOs without PvP or where PvP is an insignificant afterthought. Nor it is the ultimate endpoint for every player. Like you, I spend years as a pure pvper in a different game. However, now that I am older and in a different place in life, PvP does not interest me. I work in a demanding and stressful environment. I do not need nor want an adrenaline rush from an MMO. I get plenty of that at work. I could say the same about confrontations in general. I play to relax and enjoy friendly interaction with like minded individuals. If I the game tries to force me into PvP, I will do something else.I havent read all this thread but on the whole pvp is the ultimate end point for any MMO surely? And having been a pure pvper [in another MMO not in uo] for six of the last ten years I can say that pvp beats all other content for adrenaline rush/excitement.
The main points you missed out on my friend if they don't share the same land<sarcasm>
Blues cannot attack reds in Tram. Reds cannot attack blues in Tram. Would you look at that? The Devs worked a miracle!
</sarcasm>
So far we have seen ...
1. Make Ilsh Fel ruleset
2. Establish a Fel-only shard
3. Add a PvP yes/no switch
The one I vote for is the Fel-only shard. It has the best chance of success IMO.
I didn't miss it ... I ignored it. Why? Because I started with the T2A release - Fel ruleset. The very same minority of players that we have talked about decided that killing resource gatherers and others who were NOT PvP oriented and equipped was a lot more fun. I was one of those folks who was singled out for extinction by a blue PK. He'd kill just so many up to turning red then wait it off and start again.The main points you missed out on my friend if they don't share the same land
Coexist being the main word
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Pvp in ILS would suck. The toggle switch idea is terrible, but I'd also be down for a pvp shard.<sarcasm>
Blues cannot attack reds in Tram. Reds cannot attack blues in Tram. Would you look at that? The Devs worked a miracle!
</sarcasm>
So far we have seen ...
1. Make Ilsh Fel ruleset
2. Establish a Fel-only shard
3. Add a PvP yes/no switch
The one I vote for is the Fel-only shard. It has the best chance of success IMO.
This is already in place. It's called going to Fel (or not going to Fel.)3. Add a PvP yes/no switch
Yeah I get that totally - goodpoint.Not everyone plays games for that reason. Many of us play to unwind and relax... socialize... enjoy the community... Build... collect... etc...
I work in Medicine... often in the Emergency Department... I get plenty of adrenaline rushes and excitement... I honestly just want to unwind when I'm home and not get stressed.
So we're back to parroting this easily debunked argument again, are we?I dont know what would revive Fel but new items that only pvpers/pk's get and control (*coughs* PS's) only makes them richer while ruining other players fun.
Your opinions or personal accounts do not debunk hard data, namely pricing changes. Just because it seams somewhat ridiculous and fruitless to continue the discussion after claims like "we are not after scrolls" or "we don't like to kill PvMers", does not mean you have convinced anyone. It just means reasoning and logic have left the building.So we're back to parroting this easily debunked argument again, are we?
What hard data? Hard data you dreamed up because you personally do not go to Fel? I do. I know what goes on there. I know when spawns are being done, because I check them. On the shards I play (LS and Atl/Origin/Legends when I'm in the mood to do an EM Event), the characters I use are scrolled. I don't make new chars, for one reason: I am way too lazy to have suits made (or make them myself.) If I wanted to make new chars, I could just have the scrolls transferred, because I have a decent stockpile.Your opinions or personal accounts do not debunk hard data, namely pricing changes. Just because it seams somewhat ridiculous and fruitless to continue the discussion after claims like "we are not after scrolls" or "we don't like to kill PvMers", does not mean you have convinced anyone. It just means reasoning and logic have left the building.
If Tram never happened you would not be here worrying about it anyway, UO would have closed down.If Trammel style ruleset never came along then UO wouldve been looking like all the dead shards do atm 15 years ago. Also you would know everyone that pvp's because its so dead ( which most already do even on ATL because they been in each others guild one time or another).
I dont know what would revive Fel but new items that only pvpers/pk's get and control (*coughs* PS's) only makes them richer while ruining other players fun.
Did you actually read what I said? Let me repeat it, now with helpful highlights - "Your opinions or personal accounts do not debunk hard data, namely pricing changes."What hard data? Hard data you dreamed up because you personally do not go to Fel?
...and why did those prices change? It was NOT because of the pvp'ers. It's a direct result of the pet revamp and everyone wanting full 120's for their pets. Next?Did you actually read what I said? Let me repeat it, now with helpful highlights - "Your opinions or personal accounts do not debunk hard data, namely pricing changes."
It's the most obvious thing in the world.What hard data? Hard data you dreamed up because you personally do not go to Fel?
*sighs* This is why I so rarely reply because there's very little new to say. I could re-do my entire post but it's there for all to read. The actual evidence is pretty clear and it doesn't support your side. I can't help it that you and your purported "hundreds" of friends don't like it. Or that you don't consider most of us to be "the better players." A post like this for the other side would have been deleted by Stratics by now.That's mostly false, since almost every free shard that is played is because felucca died out on osi back then. Second thing is instead of creating a different facet for trammel they copied the felucca map which was also a huge mistake. I have talked to hundreds of players that play on those free shard that would love to come back to OSI if they made a bunch of good changes to felucca. Also you seem to think cause you don't go there the facet would be dead, another false statement. With todays global loot and ilshnear dropping splintering weapons everywhere, there would be tons of people trying to farm them with the fel luck bonus. The biggest exodus to this game was when they made trammel and ruined most of the pvp then. yes more "carebears" started playing then but they are not the better players that this game would have thrived on like the felucca players. There was nothing but some balancing issues back then which caused pvp to be more ridiculous, like the hally mages and things. If they just fixed those balancing issues everything would've been fine and we wouldn't need 6 facets of trammel to one felucca facet. But the simple fact that felucca hasn't gotten a single new drop in 16 years is completely ridiculous. I know for a fact that if more things dropped in fel only that you would see a steady rise in the population of the game. This fake news that trammel saved UO is just false.
Agree.. What you are saying is blatantly obvious. This is NOT fake news as some people state. Same experiment we did with a zero dci tamer suit, on one of our guildies, and tried to kill him with every pet in the stables (one by one) : Guess what no damage to make any difference. Only one pet did minimal damage after debuffing him. It he was a pvp temp being attacked by a tamers pet he would have killed the tamer 20 times over, and not afected by the pet at all. The pet pvp damage needs to be tweaked up a little bit...I want my pets un-nerfed
When my pets accidentally attack me, or I attack it, with my luck mr suit, no dci, no hla, nothing! basically, I stand there being tickled by my pet for good 10 seconds before I realize, oops!
How effing useless pets have become....
If Tram never happened you would not be here worrying about it anyway, UO would have closed down.
The problem with making the pets more powerful at pvp, however would be that PKers then would start PKing with pets even more easily, given the right pvp tamer template. Aw well ..Agree.. What you are saying is blatantly obvious. This is NOT fake news as some people state. Same experiment we did with a zero dci tamer suit, on one of our guildies, and tried to kill him with every pet in the stables (one by one) : Guess what no damage to make any difference. Only one pet did minimal damage after debuffing him. It he was a pvp temp being attacked by a tamers pet he would have killed the tamer 20 times over, and not afected by the pet at all. The pet pvp damage needs to be tweaked up a little bit...
No, it wouldn't. See also: Anything Frodo posts.*sighs* This is why I so rarely reply because there's very little new to say. I could re-do my entire post but it's there for all to read. The actual evidence is pretty clear and it doesn't support your side. I can't help it that you and your purported "hundreds" of friends don't like it. Or that you don't consider most of us to be "the better players." A post like this for the other side would have been deleted by Stratics by now.
We've been over this multiple times. If you don't understand the role of restricted supply in price formation, not much I can do beyond what has been said already....and why did those prices change? It was NOT because of the pvp'ers. It's a direct result of the pet revamp and everyone wanting full 120's for their pets. Next?
Dude, I know how economics works. It's quite clear that you don't, since you refuse to accept the REAL reason for the increased price of scrolls. Once again: IT'S NOT BECAUSE OF THE PVP COMMUNITY. If we really wanted to increase the price of scrolls before the pet revamp (or decrease them), we could have done it whenever we wanted. Did it ever occur to you to examine WHEN the price of scrolls went up?We've been over this multiple times. If you don't understand the role of restricted supply in price formation, not much I can do beyond what has been said already.
Clearly not. The pet publish is the reason for the initial price increase (increased demand). PvPer stranglehold on the scrolls is the reason it never went down as many PvPers argued here a year ago. This is restricted supply. Free market always reacts to changes in demand by increasing supply. Monopoly does not.Dude, I know how economics works.
PvPer stranglehold on the scrolls is the reason it never went down as many PvPers argued here a year ago. This is restricted supply. Free market always reacts to changes in demand by increasing supply. Monopoly does not.
Name the pvp'ers and their guilds then, and link for these non-existent arguments about scrolls. I'll fact check.Clearly not. The pet publish is the reason for the initial price increase (increased demand). PvPer stranglehold on the scrolls is the reason it never went down as many PvPers argued here a year ago. This is restricted supply. Free market always reacts to changes in demand by increasing supply. Monopoly does not.
As I just said above, basic economics is your evidence. Or are you suggesting there can be another artificial restriction on power scroll supply other than PvPers?Give me proof, give me evidence of this PvPer stranglehold.
Name the PvPers/Guilds commiting this heineous crime.
LMAO It is obvious that you were not there when EA said fix it and OSI did, they created Tram and UO flourished till AoS. But TY for the good laugh.No.
It would have been 10 times more successful, pandering to the weak, only makes everything weaker and it's a race to the bottom.
Who can be the biggest victim?
Who has it the hardest? Let's compete with victim stories.
How can we get everything on a plate and never have to work for anything?
What happens when you forget how to do anything for yourself?
Here is my evidence to suggest otherwise.
Eve Online - Wikipedia
Eve Online is still held in the highest gaming regards.
UO - used to be regarded like this, but Trammel killed it off.
UO should still be held in the same regard as Eve Online.
Highly PvP, Single Felucca style shard ruleset. Bring back proper games.
"The game is renowned for its scale and complexity with regards to player interactions – in its single-shard game world, players engage in unscripted economic competition, warfare, and political schemes with other players.[3] The Bloodbath of B-R5RB, a battle involving thousands of players in a single star system, took 21 hours and was recognized as one of the largest and most expensive battles in gaming history.[4] Eve Online was exhibited at the Museum of Modern Art with a video including the historical events and accomplishments of the playerbase.[5]
Due to the game's focus on freedom, consequence, and autonomy, many behaviours that are considered griefing in most MMOs are allowed in Eve. This includes stealing from other players, extortion, and causing other players to be killed by large groups of NPCs.[44]
Only malicious, prolonged and concentrated harassment where no material gain is involved and a few other actions are considered to be illicit griefing by the game's developers.[45] Escaping retribution by CONCORD, the NPC space police force that punishes criminal activity in higher security solar systems,[46] for criminal actions is also forbidden, as CONCORD is intentionally designed by game mechanics to be unstoppable."
And what has happened since, hmm? Plenty of unused content in the Trammel ruleset, Fel long since forgotten since they threw us a bone with Publish 16, and a massively dwindling playerbase.LMAO It is obvious that you were not there when EA said fix it and OSI did, they created Tram and UO flourished till AoS. But TY for the good laugh.
Are you kidding me a lot of people came back because of Tram get your facts straight EA was getting ready to close UO because people were tired of the BS and told OSI to fix it and they did. You guys live in such a dream world it is almost funny if it wasn't so sad, talk about being in denial. And please be my guest and report me.This thread is not about Power scrolls, stay on topic please or ill be forced to report people.
AOS was just another reason pvp died but first it was trammel. A lot of people quit over trammel being made then itemizing it in the no danger zones killed most of the rest of it. This game is nothing but a shell of its former glory due to those changes. You guys can make up as many conspiracy theories as want about how felucca people are such evil players, none of it is true. Get a grip on reality will ya, maybe you need medication or something.
As I just said above, basic economics is your evidence. Or are you suggesting there can be another artificial restriction on power scroll supply other than PvPers?