Classic Shard #2

[Tanivar]

Tanivar, I understand you don't like to be PK'd. No one does. How about instead of just saying that the classic server needs Trammel (which is what I get from your posts)

Actually what I've been saying in these Classic Shard threads most of the time is that it needs sufficent restraints on PKing so that those who don't enjoy being routinely PKed, are not routinely PKed. That they can be something else besides targets for PKers. A Classic Tram Shard, unfortunately, likely may be the only way to have such a land to play.

why don't you suggest some ideas to limit and or punish PK's who prey on those who do not wish to or can not PvP to protect themselves from PK's?

I have suggested PK penalties. The PKers went nuts. <g>

Do a search of my posts in the first Classic Shard thread.

For a while I argued for the possible need of Tram in a classic shard to mollify players who wish no non-con PvP but in the end it will kill a classic shard.

A Classic Shard that won't draw more than PvPers & PKers wouldn't survive anyway.

Create a Classic Shard like it's described as being back pre-Ren, and it will wind up just primarily PvPers. The PvMers won't stay for long, and when they leave, so will the PKers because they have few sheep to kill & because the PvPers will whomp thier rumps.

 

[Tanivar]

Ummm so your telling me that you are providing your opinion on something that you were not even present at?

I'm basing my opinion on the words of those who were there. As a rule thats been that pre-UO:Ren had a severe, game-killing PK problem. The few exceptions to that rule describe it as you do.

I will rely on the memories of the many, instead of the few.

 

[Kaleb]

I'm basing my opinion on the words of those who were there. As a rule thats been that pre-UO:Ren had a severe, game-killing PK problem. The few exceptions to that rule describe it as you do.

I will rely on the memories of the many, instead of the few.

My last post to you sir, being that since you were not there your opinion is based off hearsay and has zero weight to it to back it up. Most Everyone here that Has played t2a or prior, that has experience with the ruleset and whom are the very people wanting the server, It has/had nothing to do with PK's from the start, It has everything to do with Ultima Online and the World it was. Ever think regardless of PK's you may have liked the community involvement, the player towns, the player events, witch(pk) hunts exc, exc and maybe just maybe had fun? Most for a classic shard are not about PVP the shard offers but the World Ultima was. See i use world for old UO now its just a game. We want the world of Ultima online back where you can be what you want to be under a single original ruleset.

Just so you know, PvPers PvM to get the gold or loot needed to supply them for battle regardless if it were pre AoS or current so the shard will always have PvMers/crafters who can defend themselves win win. And trust me the best most populated free servers run the original ruleset that at any givin time has more active players than any current EA server, and there are PvMers galore. Shhhhhh!! before you say " well its free bla bla bla" they have trammel only servers too that are pretty dead. So givin that these players(mostly old EA/OSI players) have a choice on witch ruleset they want the majority play the original ruleset servers.

I have tried dozens prs in my quest to find the perfect version of ultima, I have tried some of the most care bear to the most hardcore to the most outside the box you can think of, and the most popular runs uo:ren pub 15 with modern features that do not unbalance combat with the original ruleset, PKs dont even have harsh set backs like not entering GZ, or statloss but the shard maintains a healthy population of every playstyle around. In fact if EA were to mirror that shard impose penalties like temp stat/skill loss (like factions but stackable), cannot enter gz/public moongates, cant buy/sell npc's outside bucs, all blessed noobie items drop on corpse not limited to spell/rune books then I believe it would be a shard everyone would be happy with.

 

[Tanivar]

My last post to you sir, being that since you were not there your opinion is based off hearsay and has zero weight to it to back it up.

The words of the many who were there and say PKing was the problem are just zero weight rumor. The words of the few who agree you are not zero weight rumor.

Wonder if you would have pointed this out if my opinion was based on the words of the few instead of the words of the many.

Probably not. <chuckle> rolleyes:

 

[HD2300]

"Next: is there ever going to be a classic shard?" - Producer's Letter, 12 Feb 2010

btw Still no one has posted a business case showing that a Classic shard would be profitable.

Almost 5 months since 12 Feb 2010. Only 6 months to go until Christmas. Please keep posting in this thread. Ho Ho Ho.

 

[Petra Fyde]

This thread is long past serving any useful purpose and is now merely going around in circles.

But apparently some people are happy to do that. Please try to make some attempt to stay within the rules of conduct.

 

[Satzumi]

My last post to you sir, being that since you were not there your opinion is based off hearsay and has zero weight to it to back it up. Most Everyone here that Has played t2a or prior, that has experience with the ruleset and whom are the very people wanting the server, It has/had nothing to do with PK's from the start, It has everything to do with Ultima Online and the World it was. Ever think regardless of PK's you may have liked the community involvement, the player towns, the player events, witch(pk) hunts exc, exc and maybe just maybe had fun? Most for a classic shard are not about PVP the shard offers but the World Ultima was. See i use world for old UO now its just a game. We want the world of Ultima online back where you can be what you want to be under a single original ruleset.

Just so you know, PvPers PvM to get the gold or loot needed to supply them for battle regardless if it were pre AoS or current so the shard will always have PvMers/crafters who can defend themselves win win. And trust me the best most populated free servers run the original ruleset that at any givin time has more active players than any current EA server, and there are PvMers galore. Shhhhhh!! before you say " well its free bla bla bla" they have trammel only servers too that are pretty dead. So givin that these players(mostly old EA/OSI players) have a choice on witch ruleset they want the majority play the original ruleset servers.

I have tried dozens prs in my quest to find the perfect version of ultima, I have tried some of the most care bear to the most hardcore to the most outside the box you can think of, and the most popular runs uo:ren pub 15 with modern features that do not unbalance combat with the original ruleset, PKs dont even have harsh set backs like not entering GZ, or statloss but the shard maintains a healthy population of every playstyle around. In fact if EA were to mirror that shard impose penalties like temp stat/skill loss (like factions but stackable), cannot enter gz/public moongates, cant buy/sell npc's outside bucs, all blessed noobie items drop on corpse not limited to spell/rune books then I believe it would be a shard everyone would be happy with.

This

And hello to everyone. When i heard there is a discussion about a classic ultima shard, i got so excited that i nearly peed my pants.
I dont think that a classic shard will have a low player base. I know tons of people that will come and play on that shard like they did in the old days.

When i played back in the old times i got wasted like every day in the beginning but it never took the fun to play uo. In the beginning it was the most exciting thing to go out and hunt and be aware of pks aswell.

When i got better in pvp the game got another great new aspect to me, what kept me playing uo for years. I think EA should give it a try since hosting such a shard doesent cost much money. So lets wait and hope they will.

Im wondering if anyone of EA/Mythic read this community forums.
Is this even recognized by them?

 

[o2bavr6]

I'm basing my opinion on the words of those who were there. As a rule thats been that pre-UO:Ren had a severe, game-killing PK problem. The few exceptions to that rule describe it as you do.

I will rely on the memories of the many, instead of the few.

Sorry dude, but the words of the people who told it was sever was just plain wrong... again at least in regards to Chessy shard.

And I may be the "few" but i was there and have played UO since 1997... when did you say you started?

I am speaking facts not supposition.

 

[o2bavr6]

The words of the many who were there and say PKing was the problem are just zero weight rumor. The words of the few who agree you are not zero weight rumor.

Wonder if you would have pointed this out if my opinion was based on the words of the few instead of the words of the many.

Probably not. <chuckle> rolleyes:

Out of curiosity the "words of many" to you means how many people?

were they friends who played UO with you?

Were they posts you read on websites?

Because if I recall correctly when I first started playing on Chessy by the time T2a came along the population was around 10K.

So even if you heard it from hundreds or people you heard it from the minority and probably from new people who did not understand the rules or they didn't want to put the time in required to get good so that they could compete when a pker attacked them.

I'm trying to recall but I would swear that everyone I knew didn't mind pkers. even when we were gathering resources and go pked.. yes it was a drag but it was part of the game..

You see, one day you get pked another day you get a vanq weapon. one day you die to lost network connection and lose all your stuff, another day you get a piece of invulnerable armor.

What I am getting at is there were highs and lows a lot like real life. It was way more satisfying to earn something like a house than it is today.

Early on to get a 7x7 house was a HUGE accomplishment. to have 1 million gold was almost impossible. if you didn't select the correct combination of skills the game could be very hard.

You see you needed to gather resources to be able to suit up and kill monsters. but to kill monsters you needed some skill or you would die very fast if you died you lost your stuff and had to go get more which cost gold.

so you needed your resource gatherer to help finance your warrior or mage. this is why people would also kill monsters in groups to make it easier to stay alive and gain skill. and I don't even want to get into things like "power hour" for skill gain.

 

[Tek]

Here's a classic shard for you -

 

[Archie]

Here's a classic shard for you -

Marginally cute, but a pretty low grade troll. If you are suggesting that the graphics of old UO are dated, well, I'd have to agree.

But attempts to modernize those graphics have been less than successful.

I think the original 2D graphics were quite good, and have worn well through the years.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

I wouldn't even give those two any attention at all Archie, HD still pretends to have access to numbers that nobody else has, and the other one like you said very low rent where troll jobs are concerned.

 

[northwoodschopper]

Here's a classic shard for you -

that would be pretty hilarious. actually the art isn't that bad, and would be more consistent than the art currently used.

 

[o2bavr6]

Marginally cute, but a pretty low grade troll.

I'm not trying to be combative here, but why do you think that was a troll post?

I found the pic funny and sort of on topic, at least in regards to a classic shard and old uo6.

Isn't it possible he just posted it for the fun factor and not to troll?

 

[Tek]

It’s called Ultima 6 Online or U60, it’s a real MMO and that’s a screen shot from me playing it last night.

Thanks for being arrogant Archie and Dakkon, sheesh.

http://www.onrpg.com/MMO/Ultima-6-Online

 

[Archie]

I'm not trying to be combative here, but why do you think that was a troll post?

I found the pic funny and sort of on topic, at least in regards to a classic shard and old uo.

Isn't it possible he just posted it for the fun factor and not to troll?

Because of the, "Here's a classic shard for you" comment, followed by a pic of what are obviously inferior graphics to the classic client. I took the insinuation to mean, "those days have passed us by, don't bother with your silly classic shard thread", and not to be meant as a joke for "general" consumption.

 

[Archie]

It’s called Ultima 6 Online or U60, it’s a real MMO and that’s a screen shot from me playing it last night.

Thanks for being arrogant Archie and Dakkon, sheesh.

http://www.onrpg.com/MMO/Ultima-6-Online

Okay, maybe I stand corrected. I thought that screen shot was from the single player game. Now I'm starting to see the humor in your post.

 

[o2bavr6]

Okay, maybe I stand corrected. I thought that screen shot was from the single player game. Now I'm starting to see the humor in your post.

Yup... that's all it seemed to be to me

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

This thread is long past serving any useful purpose and is now merely going around in circles.

Petra is right.

The majority of the people wanting a Classic Shard have spoken, take a look at the sticky.

This discussion has completely devolved into a Trammel vs. No-Trammel debate, and some tangent about advertising from some people that don't seem to understand the concept of budgeting.

With that said...I am out.

I will be back if a Classic Shard ever opens up. Until then, my accounts are closed, and I don't see the need in coming back to Stratics.

For those that wish to keep in touch, the address in my signature is still open.

Thanks!

Enjoy what is left of UO.

 

[Kaleb]

Maybe they fear it would be a hit and focus gos back to the classic era system While the AOS system gets treated like siege?

My idea of a server everyone can enjoy.
-Original ruleset no trammel, givin time after then a trammel server should be made by then all bugs worked out of the first.
-pub 15 UO:Ren skills, combat
-No insurance. No item bless deeds, Clothing OK
- No shard X-fer
-context menus
-skill stat locks
-crafting gumps
-neon colors maybe just to the set of hairdyes of old, although a few do not like them including my self, as I have seen in other dimensions, colors you wouldnt think to see there, Neon color is a hit to the majority of players shard wide EA/ and others.
-Bonding if allowed only what we have now, No bonding if no control slots.
-Custom housing But with a 14 day to refresh before IDOC timer old school texas law where non friend is grey and attackable.
-skills capped at 100
-no Stat altering items rings, bracelets, clothing, armor, stats stay capped at 225 and cannot go above 100 in any stat, Bless and any other buff spell cannot bring you past 100 in any givin stat.
-Resisting spells changed back to before aos(should be shard wide regardless of server code).
-Britannia and lost lands to start, possible other lands minus malas, for housing/hunting space as population permits.
-Chaos and order
-Factions
-Penalties for Murder:
A. Statloss and skill loss by 20% for 20 minutes, and is stackable up to 60% and one hour each death time expires while alive,
B.No entry into GZ, no use of public moongates, no use of NpC's outside bucs(bucs will have every npc town function needed).
C. Noobie and blessed items fall on corpse including rune books and spell books they drop everything.
D.attackable anywhere, previous non hostile tames attack reds.
E.can only rez by player or chaos shrine.
F.Counts cannot be burned as a ghost.
- Runics For this reason only: A lesson from UO:R, although at a faster pace with the induction of trammel. Magic weapons and armor became common wear no need was an exceptional katana, or long spear, crafters soon found themselves selling their wares at a loss of investment and time, Bod's and runics gave the crafter a position in the market place again, not only could he now have a slim chance at making the best items in game he could compete with the magic gear in game, now the concept was awesome what they failed to realize was the imbalance Item bless deeds caused with some of these weapons, you could fight nakid, a blessed weap, noob scissors and a deathrobe were all that was needed to return to the fight insurance for the dexer.(though we all had noobie or blessed cloths, Our look.) With out Item bless deeds I feel Runics would have had a better rep then what they have today, they were a godsend to the crafter, Bod trading communities were and on some shard still large. no xfers Val runics will be rare like they were pre Xfer.
-Some of the new weapons and armors graphics just under the pre aos code craftable or lootable.
-No instanced corpses
-Stackables
-working virtue system

This is the main thing I would like to see as a start.

 

[eekamouse]

Maybe they fear it would be a hit and focus gos back to the classic era system While the AOS system gets treated like siege?

My idea of a server everyone can enjoy.
-Original ruleset no trammel, givin time after then a trammel server should be made by then all bugs worked out of the first.
-pub 15 UO:Ren skills, combat
-No insurance. No item bless deeds, Clothing OK
- No shard X-fer
-context menus
-skill stat locks
-crafting gumps
-neon colors maybe just to the set of hairdyes of old, although a few do not like them including my self, as I have seen in other dimensions, colors you wouldnt think to see there, Neon color is a hit to the majority of players shard wide EA/ and others.
-Bonding if allowed only what we have now, No bonding if no control slots.
-Custom housing But with a 14 day to refresh before IDOC timer old school texas law where non friend is grey and attackable.
-skills capped at 100
-no Stat altering items rings, bracelets, clothing, armor, stats stay capped at 225 and cannot go above 100 in any stat, Bless and any other buff spell cannot bring you past 100 in any givin stat.
-Resisting spells changed back to before aos(should be shard wide regardless of server code).
-Britannia and lost lands to start, possible other lands minus malas, for housing/hunting space as population permits.
-Chaos and order
-Factions
-Penalties for Murder:
A. Statloss and skill loss by 20% for 20 minutes, and is stackable up to 60% and one hour each death time expires while alive,
B.No entry into GZ, no use of public moongates, no use of NpC's outside bucs(bucs will have every npc town function needed).
C. Noobie and blessed items fall on corpse including rune books and spell books they drop everything.
D.attackable anywhere, previous non hostile tames attack reds.
E.can only rez by player or chaos shrine.
F.Counts cannot be burned as a ghost.
- Runics For this reason only: A lesson from UO:R, although at a faster pace with the induction of trammel. Magic weapons and armor became common wear no need was an exceptional katana, or long spear, crafters soon found themselves selling their wares at a loss of investment and time, Bod's and runics gave the crafter a position in the market place again, not only could he now have a slim chance at making the best items in game he could compete with the magic gear in game, now the concept was awesome what they failed to realize was the imbalance Item bless deeds caused with some of these weapons, you could fight nakid, a blessed weap, noob scissors and a deathrobe were all that was needed to return to the fight insurance for the dexer.(though we all had noobie or blessed cloths, Our look.) With out Item bless deeds I feel Runics would have had a better rep then what they have today, they were a godsend to the crafter, Bod trading communities were and on some shard still large. no xfers Val runics will be rare like they were pre Xfer.
-Some of the new weapons and armors graphics just under the pre aos code craftable or lootable.
-No instanced corpses
-Stackables
-working virtue system

This is the main thing I would like to see as a start.

Pretty much perfect. Just add Champ Spawns in T2A that drop only gold and magic items, no power scrolls obviously, and you have a perfect shard in my opinion.

 

[Satzumi]

Maybe they fear it would be a hit and focus gos back to the classic era system While the AOS system gets treated like siege?

My idea of a server everyone can enjoy.
-Original ruleset no trammel, givin time after then a trammel server should be made by then all bugs worked out of the first.
-pub 15 UO:Ren skills, combat
-No insurance. No item bless deeds, Clothing OK
- No shard X-fer
-context menus
-skill stat locks
-crafting gumps
-neon colors maybe just to the set of hairdyes of old, although a few do not like them including my self, as I have seen in other dimensions, colors you wouldnt think to see there, Neon color is a hit to the majority of players shard wide EA/ and others.
-Bonding if allowed only what we have now, No bonding if no control slots.
-Custom housing But with a 14 day to refresh before IDOC timer old school texas law where non friend is grey and attackable.
-skills capped at 100
-no Stat altering items rings, bracelets, clothing, armor, stats stay capped at 225 and cannot go above 100 in any stat, Bless and any other buff spell cannot bring you past 100 in any givin stat.
-Resisting spells changed back to before aos(should be shard wide regardless of server code).
-Britannia and lost lands to start, possible other lands minus malas, for housing/hunting space as population permits.
-Chaos and order
-Factions
-Penalties for Murder:
A. Statloss and skill loss by 20% for 20 minutes, and is stackable up to 60% and one hour each death time expires while alive,
B.No entry into GZ, no use of public moongates, no use of NpC's outside bucs(bucs will have every npc town function needed).
C. Noobie and blessed items fall on corpse including rune books and spell books they drop everything.
D.attackable anywhere, previous non hostile tames attack reds.
E.can only rez by player or chaos shrine.
F.Counts cannot be burned as a ghost.
- Runics For this reason only: A lesson from UO:R, although at a faster pace with the induction of trammel. Magic weapons and armor became common wear no need was an exceptional katana, or long spear, crafters soon found themselves selling their wares at a loss of investment and time, Bod's and runics gave the crafter a position in the market place again, not only could he now have a slim chance at making the best items in game he could compete with the magic gear in game, now the concept was awesome what they failed to realize was the imbalance Item bless deeds caused with some of these weapons, you could fight nakid, a blessed weap, noob scissors and a deathrobe were all that was needed to return to the fight insurance for the dexer.(though we all had noobie or blessed cloths, Our look.) With out Item bless deeds I feel Runics would have had a better rep then what they have today, they were a godsend to the crafter, Bod trading communities were and on some shard still large. no xfers Val runics will be rare like they were pre Xfer.
-Some of the new weapons and armors graphics just under the pre aos code craftable or lootable.
-No instanced corpses
-Stackables
-working virtue system

This is the main thing I would like to see as a start.

This Kaleb Rox

 

[northwoodschopper]

maybe if neon hairdye/clothing dye/stains would wear out in a week or so, returning to a normal color, would at least create a goldsink for the wealthy that have nothing better to do. i mean, high fashion is gaudy and irksome to the lower classes anyways. it least this way it'd be expensive to maintain.

i personally think nothing should be newbie'd or blessed. if you carry it, you drop it. or at the very least, anything blessed/newbie should only last a week or two, requiring another.

i'd like to see npc guids return with their discounts, as well as removing localization, giving npcs their voices back. add back in the gradual day/night cycle. and of course all of the artwork reverted back to t2a era. food making a difference once again, where it increased your health and stamina regeneration when full (i think it was 1 health ever 15 seconds when empty, and 1 health every 5 seconds when full, varying in between).

 

[Evlar]

Maybe they fear it would be a hit and focus gos back to the classic era system While the AOS system gets treated like siege?

My idea of a server everyone can enjoy.
-Original ruleset no trammel, givin time after then a trammel server should be made by then all bugs worked out of the first.
-pub 15 UO:Ren skills, combat
-No insurance. No item bless deeds, Clothing OK
- No shard X-fer
-context menus
-skill stat locks
-crafting gumps
-neon colors maybe just to the set of hairdyes of old, although a few do not like them including my self, as I have seen in other dimensions, colors you wouldnt think to see there, Neon color is a hit to the majority of players shard wide EA/ and others.
-Bonding if allowed only what we have now, No bonding if no control slots.
-Custom housing But with a 14 day to refresh before IDOC timer old school texas law where non friend is grey and attackable.
-skills capped at 100
-no Stat altering items rings, bracelets, clothing, armor, stats stay capped at 225 and cannot go above 100 in any stat, Bless and any other buff spell cannot bring you past 100 in any givin stat.
-Resisting spells changed back to before aos(should be shard wide regardless of server code).
-Britannia and lost lands to start, possible other lands minus malas, for housing/hunting space as population permits.
-Chaos and order
-Factions
-Penalties for Murder:
A. Statloss and skill loss by 20% for 20 minutes, and is stackable up to 60% and one hour each death time expires while alive,
B.No entry into GZ, no use of public moongates, no use of NpC's outside bucs(bucs will have every npc town function needed).
C. Noobie and blessed items fall on corpse including rune books and spell books they drop everything.
D.attackable anywhere, previous non hostile tames attack reds.
E.can only rez by player or chaos shrine.
F.Counts cannot be burned as a ghost.
- Runics For this reason only: A lesson from UO:R, although at a faster pace with the induction of trammel. Magic weapons and armor became common wear no need was an exceptional katana, or long spear, crafters soon found themselves selling their wares at a loss of investment and time, Bod's and runics gave the crafter a position in the market place again, not only could he now have a slim chance at making the best items in game he could compete with the magic gear in game, now the concept was awesome what they failed to realize was the imbalance Item bless deeds caused with some of these weapons, you could fight nakid, a blessed weap, noob scissors and a deathrobe were all that was needed to return to the fight insurance for the dexer.(though we all had noobie or blessed cloths, Our look.) With out Item bless deeds I feel Runics would have had a better rep then what they have today, they were a godsend to the crafter, Bod trading communities were and on some shard still large. no xfers Val runics will be rare like they were pre Xfer.
-Some of the new weapons and armors graphics just under the pre aos code craftable or lootable.
-No instanced corpses
-Stackables
-working virtue system

This is the main thing I would like to see as a start.

All fine, bar what I've highlighted in red. Only a couple of issues with that though.

Although I don't mind walking around the lands and "adventuring" myself, I think a lot of players would soon get tired of losing spell books and rune books.

Spell books not perhaps the end of the world, because if you lose your reagents, you can't cast anyway. Likely vendors would stock "replacement" spell books. It could be very inconvenient if you've got a mage, die, lose your spell book, don't have "spares" and can't find a vendor to buy a replacement. You've then spend some considerable time hunting for another full set of spells. Thinking about that for a moment, potentially, losing your spell book on a mage if it drops on a corpse and is looted, could be harsher than the penalties a PK takes, in some respects. A mage without a spell book and potentially a considerable amount of time to get a replacement, is a pretty useless character, right?

Rune books, pretty similar scenario in some respects. Lose your runebook(s), you're in for a very long walk, could be on an island and forced to use "help/stuck". Again, the loss of a rune book might not be so easily replaced, be extremely time consuming, or might not be what the player had available on vendors.

I think as a whole, most players might prefer blessed rune books and spell books. Otherwise, what might outwardly seem like a simple and inconsequential loss, may get old really quickly for a lot of players and potentially detract greatly from their game play.

Runics, I wouldn't like to see. This heads us down the slippery item-centric slope of AoS. Yes, they're player crafted items and I do understand the benefits for crafters, but personally, I much preferred the simplicity of pre-runic crafted weapons and armour.

If coloured ingots, leather, etc, are to provide any differences (other than the colour itself), then it should be based on strengths and weakness', inherent in the ingot type.

Assuming there's no insurance, plus if the "best" magic weapons and armour of old are truly rare finds, then player crafted items will retain value in the market, because they'll actually be comparable to all but the best and rarest vanquishing or invulnerability items. That market would also likely be perpetual. Granted, if there's a glut of crafters, then prices will be lower overall. Quite honestly though, in a classic shard environment with "open" PvP, I would think (certainly in the first year or so) that the majority of players would build combat based templates. That makes a crafter the minority and gives them a good market, with a better economy. That makes the crafter a valued member of the community.

Bless deeds, I would be dead against for using with any weapons or armour. Clothing bless deeds might be ok, if there's perhaps rare forms of clothing to be found. So long as clothing items don't count towards any combat attributes, then there's no "insurance" style imbalances caused.

As has also been discussed, only the truly skilled and confident PvP'ers would chance wearing their "best" magic items. The fear of their loss was quite important. Bring in item modifications that can potentially surpass them, you initiate once more, the pathway of AoS.

Just my opinions, that's all

I understand where you're coming from with all the details you've suggested though. They are but parts of a bigger picture and there's nothing there that would inherently stop me playing a "classic" shard with those things implemented.

Given those of us in favour of "classic" options, pretty much agree on the core of what "classic" means and what we would most like to see from the start, we're just discussing minor details in essence now.

Those who are so feverishly against the "classic" option, seem to fail to grasp that we all mostly agree on the major things. When they see us discuss the "little things", they think we're completely fractured in our opinions.

With a game of such broad scope and possibilities, it's only fair to assume, even with a "classic" option, that people will discuss the little things too. In fact, it's no different to the myriad threads in U-Hall discussing minor game details, suggestions and ideas, for the production shards. Their blinkered views don't permit them to see that our "little" discussions, simply mirror their discussions regarding "current" UO...

...bless 'em!

 

[Evlar]

I'll just add, that I would hope there are at least three shards, all the same, but catering to different regions.

· North America
· Europe
· Asia

Subject to demand of course, but consider one reason why Siege misses out on a lot of potential players. Granted, there's players from Europe (for example) who play Siege, but those who perhaps want to PvP more, claim an instant disadvantage due to poor latency to Siege. I would in fact have played a Siege ruleset shard, were there a European server option available.

Some people might laugh, but I've been able to compete sufficiently well enough on some servers, with latency up to 400ms. I played Great Lakes for many years. Whenever I've tried Siege though, I'm always above 400ms, often by a wide margin, even double that or more. Tell me that a reasonable connection speed to the server doesn't matter in PvP... and I'll shout OooOOoOOooo at you, whilst you watch a character that to you, looks like the Six Million Dollar Man, in one of the slow-motion scenes... nnnnn-na-na-na-na-na

Although on Siege or "classic" shards, I can do many other things aside from PvP (which isn't actually main focus of my game play), it's a start if I can defend myself, or participate in PvP reasonably well, without latency preventing me from doing so.

 

[Kaleb]

Although I don't mind walking around the lands and "adventuring" myself, I think a lot of players would soon get tired of losing spell books and rune books.

Spell books not perhaps the end of the world, because if you lose your reagents, you can't cast anyway. Likely vendors would stock "replacement" spell books. It could be very inconvenient if you've got a mage, die, lose your spell book, don't have "spares" and can't find a vendor to buy a replacement. You've then spend some considerable time hunting for another full set of spells. Thinking about that for a moment, potentially, losing your spell book on a mage if it drops on a corpse and is looted, could be harsher than the penalties a PK takes, in some respects. A mage without a spell book and potentially a considerable amount of time to get a replacement, is a pretty useless character, right?

Rune books, pretty similar scenario in some respects. Lose your runebook(s), you're in for a very long walk, could be on an island and forced to use "help/stuck". Again, the loss of a rune book might not be so easily replaced, be extremely time consuming, or might not be what the player had available on vendors.

I thought about that after I posted it, Maybe it may be too harsh and pointless. but I'm also torn on the idea that Being a PK the penalities need to be harsh but keep the character and playstyle viable that is why I have not edited it out.

Runics, I wouldn't like to see. This heads us down the slippery item-centric slope of AoS. Yes, they're player crafted items and I do understand the benefits for crafters, but personally, I much preferred the simplicity of pre-runic crafted weapons and armour.

If coloured ingots, leather, etc, are to provide any differences (other than the colour itself), then it should be based on strengths and weakness', inherent in the ingot type.

Perhaps no runics, but bods were still fun and great to fill while training a character maybe a new set of bods that coincide with the Classic feel, Pheonix/ranger pieces, clothing bless deeds, Anvils, prospector tools?

Bless deeds, I would be dead against for using with any weapons or armour. Clothing bless deeds might be ok, if there's perhaps rare forms of clothing to be found. So long as clothing items don't count towards any combat attributes, then there's no "insurance" style imbalances caused.

Hell no to Item bless deeds, yes to clothing bless deeds

As has also been discussed, only the truly skilled and confident PvP'ers would chance wearing their "best" magic items. The fear of their loss was quite important. Bring in item modifications that can potentially surpass them, you initiate once more, the pathway of AoS.

This shard would never have anything like what we have with AoS and never could go that direction unless its just visual and has no effect on combat, skills, gameplay. Alot of what I posted I gathered from the 2 classic shard threads, the PK idea is me just expressing my idea of having good penalties for PK but not making the playstyle obsolete and pretty much unplayable, a couple suggested a character get locked up for the time till' they are blue again? Like saying that you can choose to be a murder but you will never play your character again unless you only get up to 5 counts at a time. I dont want to play a shard that allows the choice to PK but not allow someone to ever play their character again.

 

[Vyal]

Classic doesn't mean make a new version of UO with all new things.

You make it the exact same thing as it was back in the day to the T.

 

[Kaleb]

Classic doesn't mean make a new version of UO with all new things.

You make it the exact same thing as it was back in the day to the T.

See this is where some of you are messed up, like my uncle who still dresses like his teens from the late 70's early 80's and thinks he is cool. You can never get or go back to a point in time. You have to keep the core concept and spirit, we dont want a shard only a couple hundred would play on we are trying to come up with a shard that thousands would like while keeping within the the original spirit of Ultima Online. As long as its got the original ruleset, no trammel, no aos changes all the rest are fine details. Most of us are using our brains and and Asking ourselves, What was good? What was bad? what can we do to improve this or that? What can we do to fix this or that? there is a Happy medium there somewhere, its just reaching it. The main goal is to bring world back to Ultima Online vs the game it is today.

What I Based my post of "my ideal shard" from was based on posts from Classic 1, classic 2 and my own 12 1/2 years experience on EA and years searchin in other dimensions that cannot be named for the best shard and posted the best of everything that I have seen that worked, that does not work.

This may be a non con pvp enabled shard, but it does not mean its about just PvP, PK, Blue, Red, Bla, Bla, Bla its ablut trying to recreate the world ultima online was and at some point could have been.

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

Classic doesn't mean make a new version of UO with all new things.

You make it the exact same thing as it was back in the day to the T.

You make it the same and history will repeat itself...besides there are too many good systems that have been introduced that make sense and are good things. Runebooks for one, Factions (more consensual PvP outlets are good) gardening, beggable semi-rares, housing security and secure housing transfers.

 

[northwoodschopper]

Although I don't mind walking around the lands and "adventuring" myself, I think a lot of players would soon get tired of losing spell books and rune books.

Spell books not perhaps the end of the world, because if you lose your reagents, you can't cast anyway. Likely vendors would stock "replacement" spell books. It could be very inconvenient if you've got a mage, die, lose your spell book, don't have "spares" and can't find a vendor to buy a replacement. You've then spend some considerable time hunting for another full set of spells. Thinking about that for a moment, potentially, losing your spell book on a mage if it drops on a corpse and is looted, could be harsher than the penalties a PK takes, in some respects. A mage without a spell book and potentially a considerable amount of time to get a replacement, is a pretty useless character, right?

Rune books, pretty similar scenario in some respects. Lose your runebook(s), you're in for a very long walk, could be on an island and forced to use "help/stuck". Again, the loss of a rune book might not be so easily replaced, be extremely time consuming, or might not be what the player had available on vendors.

I think as a whole, most players might prefer blessed rune books and spell books. Otherwise, what might outwardly seem like a simple and inconsequential loss, may get old really quickly for a lot of players and potentially detract greatly from their game play.

spellbooks wouldn't be a big deal to replace, since scribes generally were selling full spellbooks for 5k. prices would probably even go down as spellbooks become a sort of ransom. runebooks may be a bigger deal, but even this could be offset by marking a couple runes per run. runebooks also become a another ransom, though with less re-sell since runebooks are generally personal.

how about the ability to equip runebooks again? and we're getting rid of auto-equipping from a corpse right?

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

You make it the same and history will repeat itself...besides there are too many good systems that have been introduced that make sense and are good things. Runebooks for one, Factions (more consensual PvP outlets are good) gardening, beggable semi-rares, housing security and secure housing transfers.

I'm with you except for factions, as I've stated earlier I feel like the two factions we had already were amazing times, yes I'm biased because I spent two years doing Order/Chaos and they were the best pvp times I've ever had.

You won some, you lost some, but the combat was just so much fun, the factions they added into the game later were a mess and still are a mess to this day, I say no to factions other than Order/Chaos it was simple and it worked.

On runics, I'd much rather not see runics implemented as I feel like the magic weapons and player crafted weapons that were around pre-runic were in pretty good harmony due to no item insurance existing at the time.

Now on bods I have mixed feelings but my opinion on the matter is, it depends on what player to player trade looks like on the classic shard, if players rely on other players like they used to for weapons and armor, I don't really see the need for bods.

To me bods were a bone the devs threw to crafters when they realized that short of selling stuff on vendors they had nothing to do. It's like sorry you don't have actual interaction with your customers anymore here have a bag of shiny rewards while filling orders for npcs.

I don't really agree with the spirit of Vyals post, as I do think there were good things implemented post ren, but at the same time I think when it comes to a classic shard, simplicity will trump everything else.

As I have said all along there are to many minuscule details for us to every agree on, and at some point we need to just trust the developers and let them make it.

At this point all of our concerns have pretty much been noted, I imagine that even though Cal hasn't been replying that he is likely keeping up to date on the discussion.

At this point I agree with petra the discussion has just become pointless, and even if we are getting this shard, it's probably so far down on the list that we will be talking about it five years from now while trolls like HD throw around silly words like astroturfing.

I've just reached a point where if they announce it I will come back, if they don't I'm all but done with the idea of talking about it, I'm not going to keep wasting hours of my time discussing an idea that may never see the light of day, it's just pointless I mean think any of us could still be talking about this well into our golden years.

 

[northwoodschopper]

I'm with you except for factions, as I've stated earlier I feel like the two factions we had already were amazing times, yes I'm biased because I spent two years doing Order/Chaos and they were the best pvp times I've ever had.

You won some, you lost some, but the combat was just so much fun, the factions they added into the game later were a mess and still are a mess to this day, I say no to factions other than Order/Chaos it was simple and it worked.

i agree about order/chaos, it was fun and wasn't bogged down by all of the overhead that factions added (though i'll admit that factions had some good times too, but nothing on the old order/chaos). though i was miffed that the parry changes ruined the high end shields that were a privilege for order/chaos members. i did like the concept behind the lord status required for order/chaos, i sort of remember why they removed it since changing from notoriety to karma/fame, but it was an interesting requirement as you had to at least have some requirement to fight politically, or get kicked out. with fame nowadays, that really only affords you 2-3 deaths though, which would be a bit annoying.

 

[Evlar]

See this is where some of you are messed up, like my uncle who still dresses like his teens from the late 70's early 80's and thinks he is cool.

His name's not Larry Laffer is it?

 

[JC the Builder]

I can't believe it has been 5 years since I held that Pre-UOR Shard rally.

 

[Mervyn]

I hope they do a classic shard, main reason: i'd like everyone who keeps going on about how good uo used to be pre aos to realize how much nonsense they were talking, the game was awful back then, truly awful.

Ok there was one thing that i liked, that dexxers sucked.

 

[Llewen]

I can't believe it has been 5 years since I held that Pre-UOR Shard rally.

That's actually pretty hilarious.

 

[popeto]

for the millionth time: there will be no classic shard, ea does not care about the playerbase, only money, since there is no money to be made in this venture, there will be no shard.
sorry but its the truth

 

[Longest Journey]

Maybe they fear it would be a hit and focus gos back to the classic era system While the AOS system gets treated like siege?

My idea of a server everyone can enjoy.

I read over your idea for a server everyone can enjoy.... and I can guarantee you, its slated for the same dismal fate the AOS servers have suffered.

-Original ruleset no trammel, givin time after then a trammel server should be made by then all bugs worked out of the first.

Why would they make a trammel server? They already have 26 of them up and running. They are called the post AOS servers. People want candy coated trammel UO, they are more than free to go play those servers.

No trammel servers.

-pub 15 UO:Ren skills, combat

You mean special moves that threw combat completely out of whack? No thanks.

No to this definitely.

-No insurance. No item bless deeds, Clothing OK

Why clothing bless deeds? I mean....its just clothing. Not like its hard to replace. No bless deeds period...for anything.

- No shard X-fer

Well, this one is a given. Players wouldnt be able to transfer their AOS characters over anyway. The characters function on completely different server settings. The AOS character would pretty much lose EVERYTHING on them when they were transfered to make them compatable with the Classic Servers.

-context menus

Dont care either way.

-skill stat locks

This is actually needed. Griefers would run around placing campfires near banks and other heavily populated areas causing people's camping skill to go up and steal skill from other higher skills, usually those that were 100.0.

-crafting gumps

better crafting menus are ok.

-neon colors maybe just to the set of hairdyes of old, although a few do not like them including my self, as I have seen in other dimensions, colors you wouldnt think to see there, Neon color is a hit to the majority of players shard wide EA/ and others.

No neon colors. Those things are more eyesores than custom houses.

-Bonding if allowed only what we have now, No bonding if no control slots.

No bonding for pets and no control slots. Pet bonding ELIMINATES risk vs reward for tamers. If thats the case, then there should be bless deeds for warriors who dont want to risk their vanq weapons. Why should tamers get free passes with their dragons, while a warrior/archer has to risk their most powerful weapons?

So, again, no bonding or control slots.

-Custom housing But with a 14 day to refresh before IDOC timer old school texas law where non friend is grey and attackable.

No custom housing. Those things are blasted eyesores. Not to mention that given the misshapen size of most of the plots, land will be eaten up twice as fast.

-skills capped at 100

No problems here.

-no Stat altering items rings, bracelets, clothing, armor, stats stay capped at 225 and cannot go above 100 in any stat, Bless and any other buff spell cannot bring you past 100 in any givin stat.

So, you want to gimp spells like bless, strength, etc etc? That doesnt sound very "classic" to me. Even if the spells could buff your stats over 100, it didnt last very long and wore off after a while.

Also, this hurts crafters. Example situation: A miner is overloaded with ore and they didnt bring a pack animal. They dont want to drop their ore on the ground because others nearby will take it. Being able to drink a strength potion boosts their strength high enough to allow them to walk over to the forge and smelt down their ore.

So, no, its a bad idea.

-Resisting spells changed back to before aos(should be shard wide regardless of server code).

Well, of course. Back in T2A, you know, when the game worked, resist spells actually let players resist magic that was being cast at them. It was one of the key components to making a tank character.

Also, magic reflect should actually reflect incoming hostile spells like it used to.

-Britannia and lost lands to start, possible other lands minus malas, for housing/hunting space as population permits.

As long as the classic ruleset applies to all of those other facets, then fine.

-Chaos and order

Definitely.

-Factions

No. You have chaos and order, that is good enough. The Factions were pointless and a waste of time. Barely anyone took part in them.

-Penalties for Murder:
A. Statloss and skill loss by 20% for 20 minutes, and is stackable up to 60% and one hour each death time expires while alive,

Its good to a point. Stat and skill loss should be brought back. It should work more like this:

Stats and skills decreased by 30% upon death. Red counts work as such: First kill, go grey for 2 days. Second kill while grey, go red for 1 week. All additional murders after that tack on an additional 2 days to the murder count.

Also to harry them further, a no ressurection penalty should be imposed. They will be unable to ressurect for 4 hours after each kill. this will not stack.

B.No entry into GZ, no use of public moongates, no use of NpC's outside bucs(bucs will have every npc town function needed).

So, you just want the old rules back then? Because, thats what this is, except for the part about bucs den having NPCS for the reds to use. This part should be dropped. Reds SHOULD NOT have NPCs in bucs den for them to access their banks etc etc. When you turned red, losing access to such services was part of the price you paid, and should be a price still paid on the Classic Servers.

C. Noobie and blessed items fall on corpse including rune books and spell books they drop everything.

Youre assuming runebooks will be in at all. As for noobie items, those were usually just clothes and practice weapons, which did little to no damage at all. As for dropping spell books, thats not a bad idea. Actually, spell books should drop for everyone, not just reds. It would make completed spell books vaulable commodities.

D.attackable anywhere, previous non hostile tames attack reds.

This right here is what the original rules were, aside from the previous tames attacking red. That part is actually pointless, unless those tames are dragons. Otherwise, I dont see a rabbit or a cow posing much threat to a red.... or even a sheep for that matter. And by sheep, I mean the small wooly animals in game.

E.can only rez by player or chaos shrine.

Again, another original rule.

F.Counts cannot be burned as a ghost.

This is good.

- Runics For this reason only: A lesson from UO:R, although at a faster pace with the induction of trammel. Magic weapons and armor became common wear no need was an exceptional katana, or long spear, crafters soon found themselves selling their wares at a loss of investment and time, Bod's and runics gave the crafter a position in the market place again, not only could he now have a slim chance at making the best items in game he could compete with the magic gear in game, now the concept was awesome what they failed to realize was the imbalance Item bless deeds caused with some of these weapons, you could fight nakid, a blessed weap, noob scissors and a deathrobe were all that was needed to return to the fight insurance for the dexer.(though we all had noobie or blessed cloths, Our look.) With out Item bless deeds I feel Runics would have had a better rep then what they have today, they were a godsend to the crafter, Bod trading communities were and on some shard still large. no xfers Val runics will be rare like they were pre Xfer.

Woah, heres were things really hit the wall.

No runics, plain and simple. They threw the game economy out of whack and made regular GM weapons and armor useless. The crafting economy became monopolized by those who had the runic weapons and those who didnt were shizno out of luck. Runics are a horrible step in the direction of itemization and it has no place on a classic server.

-Some of the new weapons and armors graphics just under the pre aos code craftable or lootable.

No. People want a classic server, not a mutant version with ninjas and samurai running around in a game clearly based off of medieval europe.

-No instanced corpses

Ok.

-Stackables

Dont see a problem with this.

-working virtue system

The Virtues were a RPing element to the game. When EA made them into a "system", it cheapened them. Not to mention that for players to stay on par with one another, EVERYONE would have to master EVERY virtue, or risk falling behind or being left at a disadvantage.

So for the sake of immersion and game balance, no to this.

This is the main thing I would like to see as a start.

While some of your ideas are okay, the overall theme of custom houses, runic tools, neon colors and "new" weapons and armor are too much in the foot steps of the path to AOS.

the best list of guidelines for a classic server are those listed in the sticky thread.

Your hearts in the right place, but the idea is ultimately marred by too many flaws.

 

[Babble]

I can't believe it has been 5 years since I held that Pre-UOR Shard rally.

Did the developers threaten to ban you for that?

 

[Kaleb]

I read over your idea for a server everyone can enjoy.... and I can guarantee you, its slated for the same dismal fate the AOS servers have suffered.

No becuase I have seen most of this in action and it does work, Plus it has zero AOS combat/item/weap/armor properties.

Why would they make a trammel server? They already have 26 of them up and running. They are called the post AOS servers. People want candy coated trammel UO, they are more than free to go play those servers.

No trammel servers.

Though you may be a little closed minded, There are people out there that like the trammel ruleset, there are people out there that like the pre aos ruleset and deserve one just like the people who love the feluccian ruleset it just needs to come after the fel based server.

You mean special moves that threw combat completely out of whack? No thanks.

No to this definitely.

Pub 15 PvP, I and many others agree was its most balanced ever at this point.

Why clothing bless deeds? I mean....its just clothing. Not like its hard to replace. No bless deeds period...for anything.

Yes but people like their look, they dont care if their armor gets looted its getting the cloths and colors right again that become a pain.



Well, this one is a given. Players wouldnt be able to transfer their AOS characters over anyway. The characters function on completely different server settings. The AOS character would pretty much lose EVERYTHING on them when they were transfered to make them compatable with the Classic Servers.

No neon colors. Those things are more eyesores than custom houses.

Please see reason stated, My thought is about everyone not just a select few.

No bonding for pets and no control slots. Pet bonding ELIMINATES risk vs reward for tamers. If thats the case, then there should be bless deeds for warriors who dont want to risk their vanq weapons. Why should tamers get free passes with their dragons, while a warrior/archer has to risk their most powerful weapons?


So, again, no bonding or control slots.

Again see reasons above, There needs to be control slots I remember the problems and griefing that lamers with 4-5 drags would cause.

No custom housing. Those things are blasted eyesores. Not to mention that given the misshapen size of most of the plots, land will be eaten up twice as fast.

To some degree I agree, but you can take any poll and most everyone states that Custom Housing is one of the best features of UO

So, you want to gimp spells like bless, strength, etc etc? That doesnt sound very "classic" to me. Even if the spells could buff your stats over 100, it didnt last very long and wore off after a while.

Also, this hurts crafters. Example situation: A miner is overloaded with ore and they didnt bring a pack animal. They dont want to drop their ore on the ground because others nearby will take it. Being able to drink a strength potion boosts their strength high enough to allow them to walk over to the forge and smelt down their ore.

So, no, its a bad idea.

For balance issues It is needed, It keeps everything within the same scope, You mention headed down the aos direction? Stat altering Items and the ability to bring stat over cap is more on its was towards AOS than anything.

Well, of course. Back in T2A, you know, when the game worked, resist spells actually let players resist magic that was being cast at them. It was one of the key components to making a tank character.

Also, magic reflect should actually reflect incoming hostile spells like it used to.

Isnt that what a revert to is? And really during t2a there were only 2 tanks, the Halley mage, and the H xbow archer mage. UO:Ren(you know the 3rd expansion) gave us the true tanks.

No. You have chaos and order, that is good enough. The Factions were pointless and a waste of time. Barely anyone took part in them.

I dont know what shards you played, But pre aos On the shards I played, Pacific, Siege, Atlantic we lost a lot of huge faction guilds and 100's players due to aos and how it botched Factions

So, you just want the old rules back then? Because, thats what this is, except for the part about bucs den having NPCS for the reds to use. This part should be dropped. Reds SHOULD NOT have NPCs in bucs den for them to access their banks etc etc. When you turned red, losing access to such services was part of the price you paid, and should be a price still paid on the Classic Servers.

? No what I am saying playing a murderer is a viable playstyle and penalties should be harsh but not to harsh to make the playstyle pretty much unplayable.

Youre assuming runebooks will be in at all. As for noobie items, those were usually just clothes and practice weapons, which did little to no damage at all. As for dropping spell books, thats not a bad idea. Actually, spell books should drop for everyone, not just reds. It would make completed spell books vaulable commodities.

Yes, No as mentioned before the loss of regs makes the mage unplayable until a restock, the loss of a spell book can take a character out of the game for a long time, If spell books dropped then most to all vendors would sell out fast causing a waste of a lot of the players time to get one.

This right here is what the original rules were, aside from the previous tames attacking red. That part is actually pointless, unless those tames are dragons. Otherwise, I dont see a rabbit or a cow posing much threat to a red.... or even a sheep for that matter. And by sheep, I mean the small wooly animals in game.

Its just a fun annoying thing, I rememer reds trying to fight me on Ice ile and all the polar bears following this guy, not to mention it caused the mages to be disrupted sometimes.

No runics, plain and simple. They threw the game economy out of whack and made regular GM weapons and armor useless. The crafting economy became monopolized by those who had the runic weapons and those who didnt were shizno out of luck. Runics are a horrible step in the direction of itemization and it has no place on a classic server.

They are GM weapons that can be more powerful than magic weaps, in a Fel onlyruleset, no bless deeds, no insurance, no x-fer its a system that works pretty well.

No. People want a classic server, not a mutant version with ninjas and samurai running around in a game clearly based off of medieval europe.

I recommended you play Ultima 1-9.

The Virtues were a RPing element to the game. When EA made them into a "system", it cheapened them. Not to mention that for players to stay on par with one another, EVERYONE would have to master EVERY virtue, or risk falling behind or being left at a disadvantage.

So for the sake of immersion and game balance, no to this.

Balance? its a system that helps put PK's in check? it helps make sure people follow the path of virtue.

While some of your ideas are okay, the overall theme of custom houses, runic tools, neon colors and "new" weapons and armor are too much in the foot steps of the path to AOS.

the best list of guidelines for a classic server are those listed in the sticky thread.

Your hearts in the right place, but the idea is ultimately marred by too many flaws.

What I posted is based off a popular classic era shard with a couple Ideas I thought that would even make that shard better. based off what I have seen on the outside of EA, is that Second age and prior, AOS and after are the most dead shards out there. Also like stated its going to be Ultima Online and although Non con pvp is enabled it wont be just a PvP shard. it will be the virtual world Ultima online once was.

 

[Lanth]

INC wall of text sorry.

Seriously what is everyone’s problem with an old shard? Are you afraid the 200 people on your current server will leave to go back to something different? How would an old shard take away from current content? Do you really think developers are going to stop working on content for the recent updated servers? Can anyone post the player base before AOS came out and the player base after it came out?

Comon people, it took me months to find this forums because UO does not have its own forum can’t you see a problem there? The game is going downhill due to new games coming out with exciting graphics and game styles. I heard mainly rumors that a majority of UO’s player base is overseas! And if that is true they need to do something to start making more money. All its about is money, and that’s all it’s ever going to be about.

There are probably a few thousand people that would come back to UO with a release of a pub 16 or older version of UO. What is the worst that could happen if they made it, they reroll back a servers publishes and see how many people join it. Who knows it could bring a larger customer base than anyone knows. I know right now that there are a few free shards out there that host quite a bit of people and if given the chance they would come.

I played UO from 1996 till the launch of AOS then 6 friends and I called it quits. The game was going places we did not care for, the pvp was going downhill there was no more pking, no more stealing, nothing it just wasn’t fun anymore. UO had so much to offer but it ended up catering to the people who didntlike losing items ex:house key, silver vanq bow, etc. The game was about excitement, I know this might sound bad but I remember when I killed someone for the first time my hands shook and the feeling was just great being able to take everything that person had! Granted I also got my fair share of being pked. That’s why my miner had enough magery to recall and gm fencing and tactics with healing so I would not be an easy target.

These are just my opinions, I would prefer to not be trolled over my post comments are welcome and I hope this does happen, I’d love to cancel my 2 wow accounts and reactivate my 1996 account .
ALso no i am not trying to relive the glory days i just want to play something i enjoyed spending hours on.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Even a few thousand new players would not give enough money to pay for an entirely rebuilt classic server.

So whats the point?

 

[Smoot]

Tanivar, I understand you don't like to be PK'd. No one does. How about instead of just saying that the classic server needs Trammel (which is what I get from your posts)

Actually what I've been saying in these Classic Shard threads most of the time is that it needs sufficent restraints on PKing so that those who don't enjoy being routinely PKed, are not routinely PKed. That they can be something else besides targets for PKers. A Classic Tram Shard, unfortunately, likely may be the only way to have such a land to play.

why don't you suggest some ideas to limit and or punish PK's who prey on those who do not wish to or can not PvP to protect themselves from PK's?

I have suggested PK penalties. The PKers went nuts. <g>

Do a search of my posts in the first Classic Shard thread.

For a while I argued for the possible need of Tram in a classic shard to mollify players who wish no non-con PvP but in the end it will kill a classic shard.

A Classic Shard that won't draw more than PvPers & PKers wouldn't survive anyway.

Create a Classic Shard like it's described as being back pre-Ren, and it will wind up just primarily PvPers. The PvMers won't stay for long, and when they leave, so will the PKers because they have few sheep to kill & because the PvPers will whomp thier rumps.

First off, i would love a classic shard, no matter what form it may take, or if it cost money to be able to log onto it.

And, i have a possible solution to the fel / tram policy. When you go into Trammel, your stats would automatically be lowered. I think 10 - 15 of each stat would be fair. Skills would get too complicated. So, this would allow people to play in tram, while also giving a slight incentive to pvm in fel.

 

[eekamouse]

Even a few thousand new players would not give enough money to pay for an entirely rebuilt classic server.

So whats the point?

5,000 new subscriptions would be just under a million a year.
25,000 new subscriptions would be roughly 4.5 million a year.
50,000 new subscriptions would be roughly 9 million a year.

/shrug

I'd say a classic shard would be bring 5,000... at least. 50,000 seems like a lot, but if it works and they do it right and release it at the right time, without any hiccups.... you never know.

Or, they can continue to bleed subscriptions... -_-

 

[Lord Chaos]

Even if it was 5000 players, which would average at around 500-750.000 dollars a year, would simply not be enough to pay for development cost + server/line cost + maintainance support (GMs, etc) + advertisement cost, etc. etc. would just far exceed that limit amount of earnings.

Its a pipedream...especially since very few would likely stick around for the long haul.

 

[eekamouse]

I can't really base this opinion on anything, but I'm guessing they can keep a stable number of 10,000 accounts for 12 months of players who play primarily on a Classic Shard.

 

[Evlar]

Even if it was 5000 players, which would average at around 500-750.000 dollars a year, would simply not be enough to pay for development cost + server/line cost + maintainance support (GMs, etc) + advertisement cost, etc. etc. would just far exceed that limit amount of earnings.

Everyone is plucking figures out of fresh air at the moment. Nothing can be quantified and boxed off in any exact way.

Suffice it to say though, the number of former players, far exceeds the number of current players. Likewise, perhaps because of custom housing and the many more character/skill template options, I would suggest there's a higher proportion of multiple account holders, versus single account holders. That's likely one reason why servers seem empty, but there's still quite a lot of housing.

There's a lot of interest in the "classic" concept, just look around the web. To my mind, although it's clear it's required business plan submissions for initial funding, which Cal and the team appear to have made more than once, it doesn't need to be expensive to run, or actually need huge quantities of players to make it profitable.

Most supporters of the "classic" option, don't mind the idea that development time isn't spent in great quantities on such an option. Indeed, they prefer that if it's right to begin with, leave it be! The developers would be more than welcome to keep tinkering with the production shards to theirs and the production players content. We simply want a platform, a world we can call our own, where we pretty much call the shots. We'll effectively develop that world ourselves with our immersion in the quality of gameplay we prefer.

As for GM's, really... would actually think EA would hire additional GM's just for classic shards? I don't think so, so no extra costs there. Another aspect to think about, is that in a truly "open", single-facet, pre-AoS shard, I wouldn't expect to see anywhere near as much griefing, spawn hogging and general selfishness that goes on in production shards. For the most part, players would have the opportunity to fully police their own shard. Player justice.

You see a griefer... wallop... "OooOOOooOO".
You see a scripter... wallop... "ooOOoOOooO".
You see someone giving another player verbal abuse... wallop... "oOOooOOO".

What would you prefer? A world in which the players have more control over what goes on in that world, or one in which they're spoon fed content. Personally, I prefer a world where the players are the bosses and they're really what makes that world tick.

If they've presented business plans, then that suggests the developers feel it's potentially profitable enough to pursue, though they're keeping their cards close to their chest on any progress.

It's a niche, that's clear. Some people get excited when they hear the discussion and quote ludicrous figure, or that thousands upon thousands will return to UO. Unlikely that the servers would seize with the burden of the traffic, but they should be busy enough.

Its a pipedream...especially since very few would likely stick around for the long haul.

Oh but what a great piped-ream to have. One that clearly the developers seen to have under consideration, if not more than that. It could all be a big dangling carrot to retain players who might otherwise have left, or leave... I guess we'll know one way or the other before too long.

Suggesting that players wouldn't stick around for long... pure conjecture. Yes, the free shards are "free", but there's a few of those that have outlived many "official" MMO's, both subscription based and FTP. Some of those running those FTP servers, have even suggested that they would shut down in a heartbeat if official "classic" servers go live. Some of those players would drift off elsewhere for their "free" gaming, but we have to wonder how many would be happy enough to pay the relatively small sum required to play the game they've "missed" for so long, or never quite found a replacement for.

 

[ElRay]

I read over your idea for a server everyone can enjoy.... and I can guarantee you, its slated for the same dismal fate the AOS servers have suffered.



Why would they make a trammel server? They already have 26 of them up and running. They are called the post AOS servers. People want candy coated trammel UO, they are more than free to go play those servers.

No trammel servers.



You mean special moves that threw combat completely out of whack? No thanks.

No to this definitely.



Why clothing bless deeds? I mean....its just clothing. Not like its hard to replace. No bless deeds period...for anything.



Well, this one is a given. Players wouldnt be able to transfer their AOS characters over anyway. The characters function on completely different server settings. The AOS character would pretty much lose EVERYTHING on them when they were transfered to make them compatable with the Classic Servers.



Dont care either way.



This is actually needed. Griefers would run around placing campfires near banks and other heavily populated areas causing people's camping skill to go up and steal skill from other higher skills, usually those that were 100.0.



better crafting menus are ok.



No neon colors. Those things are more eyesores than custom houses.



No bonding for pets and no control slots. Pet bonding ELIMINATES risk vs reward for tamers. If thats the case, then there should be bless deeds for warriors who dont want to risk their vanq weapons. Why should tamers get free passes with their dragons, while a warrior/archer has to risk their most powerful weapons?

So, again, no bonding or control slots.



No custom housing. Those things are blasted eyesores. Not to mention that given the misshapen size of most of the plots, land will be eaten up twice as fast.



No problems here.



So, you want to gimp spells like bless, strength, etc etc? That doesnt sound very "classic" to me. Even if the spells could buff your stats over 100, it didnt last very long and wore off after a while.

Also, this hurts crafters. Example situation: A miner is overloaded with ore and they didnt bring a pack animal. They dont want to drop their ore on the ground because others nearby will take it. Being able to drink a strength potion boosts their strength high enough to allow them to walk over to the forge and smelt down their ore.

So, no, its a bad idea.



Well, of course. Back in T2A, you know, when the game worked, resist spells actually let players resist magic that was being cast at them. It was one of the key components to making a tank character.

Also, magic reflect should actually reflect incoming hostile spells like it used to.



As long as the classic ruleset applies to all of those other facets, then fine.



Definitely.



No. You have chaos and order, that is good enough. The Factions were pointless and a waste of time. Barely anyone took part in them.



Its good to a point. Stat and skill loss should be brought back. It should work more like this:

Stats and skills decreased by 30% upon death. Red counts work as such: First kill, go grey for 2 days. Second kill while grey, go red for 1 week. All additional murders after that tack on an additional 2 days to the murder count.

Also to harry them further, a no ressurection penalty should be imposed. They will be unable to ressurect for 4 hours after each kill. this will not stack.



So, you just want the old rules back then? Because, thats what this is, except for the part about bucs den having NPCS for the reds to use. This part should be dropped. Reds SHOULD NOT have NPCs in bucs den for them to access their banks etc etc. When you turned red, losing access to such services was part of the price you paid, and should be a price still paid on the Classic Servers.



Youre assuming runebooks will be in at all. As for noobie items, those were usually just clothes and practice weapons, which did little to no damage at all. As for dropping spell books, thats not a bad idea. Actually, spell books should drop for everyone, not just reds. It would make completed spell books vaulable commodities.



This right here is what the original rules were, aside from the previous tames attacking red. That part is actually pointless, unless those tames are dragons. Otherwise, I dont see a rabbit or a cow posing much threat to a red.... or even a sheep for that matter. And by sheep, I mean the small wooly animals in game.



Again, another original rule.



This is good.



Woah, heres were things really hit the wall.

No runics, plain and simple. They threw the game economy out of whack and made regular GM weapons and armor useless. The crafting economy became monopolized by those who had the runic weapons and those who didnt were shizno out of luck. Runics are a horrible step in the direction of itemization and it has no place on a classic server.



No. People want a classic server, not a mutant version with ninjas and samurai running around in a game clearly based off of medieval europe.



Ok.



Dont see a problem with this.



The Virtues were a RPing element to the game. When EA made them into a "system", it cheapened them. Not to mention that for players to stay on par with one another, EVERYONE would have to master EVERY virtue, or risk falling behind or being left at a disadvantage.

So for the sake of immersion and game balance, no to this.



While some of your ideas are okay, the overall theme of custom houses, runic tools, neon colors and "new" weapons and armor are too much in the foot steps of the path to AOS.

the best list of guidelines for a classic server are those listed in the sticky thread.

Your hearts in the right place, but the idea is ultimately marred by too many flaws.

I'm with this guy

 

[Longest Journey]

No becuase I have seen most of this in action and it does work, Plus it has zero AOS combat/item/weap/armor properties.


Though you may be a little closed minded, There are people out there that like the trammel ruleset, there are people out there that like the pre aos ruleset and deserve one just like the people who love the feluccian ruleset it just needs to come after the fel based server.

First off, trammel is not Classic UO. Second, if people want Trammel content, they can just go play the production servers.

Pub 15 PvP, I and many others agree was its most balanced ever at this point.

And who are these "many others"? Because, as it stands now, you appear to be the only person who believes that special moves added balance, when anyone who actually PvP'd back then and didnt hide in trammel all day long will tell you special moves threw everything out of balance.

Yes but people like their look, they dont care if their armor gets looted its getting the cloths and colors right again that become a pain.

Actually, people will care more if they lose their armor. As for getting the colors just right, its called save dont change the color of the dye tub you used to dye the clothes. Problem solved.

No bless deeds period.

Please see reason stated, My thought is about everyone not just a select few.

It seems to be about a select few. Neon colors cheapened the game and made people look absolutely ridiculous.

Again see reasons above, There needs to be control slots I remember the problems and griefing that lamers with 4-5 drags would cause.

And how about the way control slots gimped mages? Forget about that? Being able to summon multiple blade spirits was originally one of the mages main lines of defense. But when control slots came in, summoning became pointless.

Second, rarely did a tamer run around with 4-5 dragons due to the fact that those dragons usually ended up getting killed and that tamer would lose them and have to go tame more. And taming a dragon was no simple task. On the occasions when tamers bring out multiple dragons, it was usually 2-3 and when people got word there was some creep sicing them on people, it was a mad dash to go and kill them.

If multiple dragons were the key to invincibility in the game, then almost every PvPer would have been a tamer. But it wasnt and they werent because while a tamer with multiple dragons COULD be a pain, it happened only once in a while.

To some degree I agree, but you can take any poll and most everyone states that Custom Housing is one of the best features of UO

Custom housing is AOS content. It has no place on a classic server. Custom houses eat up MORE space than the classic ones. At least with classic housing presets only, everyone is going to be on level terms when it comes to houses.

For balance issues It is needed, It keeps everything within the same scope, You mention headed down the aos direction? Stat altering Items and the ability to bring stat over cap is more on its was towards AOS than anything.

Now, its statements like this that reinforce my belief that you NEVER played classic UO, only a free server emulation which lacked accuracy.

Stat altering items have been around since day 1. Items of Strength, Bless, Cunning, Protection etc etc, have existed in UO since launch. The only restriction was these items had charges on them. After the charges ran out, the item was useless and the player had to replace them.

A true veteran would remember this.

Isnt that what a revert to is? And really during t2a there were only 2 tanks, the Halley mage, and the H xbow archer mage. UO:Ren(you know the 3rd expansion) gave us the true tanks.

No, all renaissance gave us was trammel. And, second, Reniassance was the second expansion of UO, not the third. Third Dawn was third expansion and all that gave us was a horrible 3d view that people only used to get into Ilshenar, but abandoned it after 2d clients could go there.

I dont know what shards you played, But pre aos On the shards I played, Pacific, Siege, Atlantic we lost a lot of huge faction guilds and 100's players due to aos and how it botched Factions

No, those players left because AOS botched the entire game. Before that, only a handful of people took part in the factions. Chaos and Order had more activity.

No what I am saying playing a murderer is a viable playstyle and penalties should be harsh but not to harsh to make the playstyle pretty much unplayable.

Sorry, thats how it was in the classic days. Reds couldnt access their bank boxes nor did they have access to any other form of NPC services. That was part of the penalty for being red. It was still a viable playstyle, but only to those reds who had partners or their own house to store things in.

Yes, No as mentioned before the loss of regs makes the mage unplayable until a restock, the loss of a spell book can take a character out of the game for a long time, If spell books dropped then most to all vendors would sell out fast causing a waste of a lot of the players time to get one.

Actually, it would help the ingame economy by making Inscribers more valuable as those who can craft all Circles of magic would be able to sell completed spell books.

And it adds another layer to risk vs reward for so called "naked mages".

They are GM weapons that can be more powerful than magic weaps, in a Fel onlyruleset, no bless deeds, no insurance, no x-fer its a system that works pretty well.

Not to mention put fishermen and treasure hunters out of business and make regular crafted GM armor and weapons worthless. You just dont get what balanced out the economy back then, do you? Everyone was on the same level. It helped keep vendor shop prices in check.

No, it doesnt work. It causes monopolies and makes it so only those who have the runic crafting tools will be in demand, putting those who do not have them out of business. Runics were one of the nails in the coffin of the crafter.

I recommended you play Ultima 1-9.

I did, and in none of them was there ever a ninja or samurai option. I suggest YOU play the old ultima games, because you clearly have no clue as to how they were.

Balance? its a system that helps put PK's in check? it helps make sure people follow the path of virtue.

And all of those players who max out their virtues will have access to abilities and stats that others do not. This is called imbalance. When one side has serious advantages over another. And that is what a virtue system will bring. If players want to follow the virtues, then they should do so because they believe in them, not because having valor or honor maxed out gives a boost to STR or DEX or increases swing speed or some other artifical imbalancing reward.

What I posted is based off a popular classic era shard with a couple Ideas I thought that would even make that shard better. based off what I have seen on the outside of EA, is that Second age and prior, AOS and after are the most dead shards out there. Also like stated its going to be Ultima Online and although Non con pvp is enabled it wont be just a PvP shard. it will be the virtual world Ultima online once was.

People want T2A to be the main era for the classic server, with appropriate fixes and patches to correct some of the old problems the game had, nothing more. They dont want a boondogle hodgepodge frankenstein patched together with stuff from all over the place.

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

All I have to say about the potential subscriber base of a classic shard UO is to look at the FFA PVP mmo's that are out currently. I'll use Darkfall and Mortal Online as my examples. Both have an estimated 10k subscribers currently. Looking at their boards and talking to people in game you hear a lot of "It's fun, but it's not UO"

So I'll say there is a bleedover of subscriptions between DF and MO and say that there is at least 15k subscribers there that would jump to a classic shard UO in a heartbeat. Not to mention the subscribers on f2p shards.