Classic Shard #2

[SoulStealer A.O]

I don't understand why folks who don't want to play on a classic ruleset are so agains the creation of a classic server. I mean, you have your game, why can't we get ONE server to let us play ours?

Seriously though, it shouldn't even be about the money for EA (even though I know it is) They should just put in a classic server for the people who want it. They have more money then the government for crying out loud ;p

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

I just hope it will be a true server birth, without cheaters or scripters.

I'd be a subscriber regardless of details.

Even better, why wouldn't they go a completely different route and make it like the asian games who have no subscription fee but people put money in as they appreciate and they get unique items that do not affect gameplay.

Calvin kind of aknowledged how the players like to collect stuff in UO in his interview, I am sure the potential this shard would be of immense proportions.

It makes you wonder tho, what took so long for it to arrive, are they content at seeing almost a hundred thousand players play on free shards ? It almost feels like it, serenity, peace of mind. A kind of holographic separation between money and power I would dare to think...

Thats what I feel is the origin of the hatred directed towards us, we represent a vision, an idea and in this world it always comes under constant attacks because it means something ; the beautiful thing however is that I am certain and would put my life on it, that those players that abandoned the fight to get our sandbox back will without a doubt, even if in a few years ; will check upon the community again and wonder where is the world at.

I have never seen so much love for a way of life, its inspiration transcends the scope of our emotional capacity. It is almost food to the soul as studying is food for the spirit.

I do not play a free shard, because I dislike the whole holographic separation ; without a community we are doomed to fail. And without true opposition which is *coughs* the guardian, we will not have enough dynamism to get any significant scope of intuition to save the universe.

Perhaps we shall call it... the community of the ring of olden players of molten passion of the wilt shire !

What ?...

WHAT ? rolleyes:

 

[Naisikras]

Can someone clarify some things for me?? I see all these different free shards here and there, boasting pre tram, second age, pub 16, pre aos, etc... Who is actually running these?

They can't be that big of a group... I mean if it's just some guy with an extra computer in his basement.... then what the hell? If he can do it? Why the hell can't EA????

Or am I completely wrong?

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Your speaking blunt truth, this is not wrong just a bit taken out of proportion.

Some of them are pretty big groups, the more people you got playing on there the more staff you need to service and loyalise your players.

Some of them got dedicated servers which are better than current UO's as well I would guess too.

They do can ; but I'd guess its been changing hands often and never seen the light of day because of pseudo-mystical influence from teh distant stars...

 

[WhityJinn]

A classic shard is like looking back at high school and wishing you could go back knowing what you know now.

The appeal is starting from scratch, the draw back is there is always someone better than you, faster than you and who has more.

Move on.

Down with classic shards!

Yeah, say this to the thousands of people who play on free shards.

...
I am always amused by basic stupidity.


___

Some people have made pre-tram servers in weeks, part time, in their bedroom.

So, you know, it`s not about time or money.It`s all about dedication and passion.Something those guys who killed Ultima Online don`t have.

If they were to start creating a Classic Shard, they probably wouldn`t know where to begin.

I heard Derrick wanted to work for them to create a Classic Shard, but they refused him.Now, this guy sure does know how to do it...and there are others, many others who know.Same dudes who made their pre-tram servers in a few weeks, part time, in their bedrooms.

 

[allerk]

Can someone clarify some things for me?? I see all these different free shards here and there, boasting pre tram, second age, pub 16, pre aos, etc... Who is actually running these?

They can't be that big of a group... I mean if it's just some guy with an extra computer in his basement.... then what the hell? If he can do it? Why the hell can't EA????

Or am I completely wrong?

A guy with just an extra computer can host a server that can hold up to around 50~70 players (if the setup is decent). Only the biggest ones are ran by dedicated hosting services and such.
It does require some money to run a shard that holds up to around 1000 players, but believe me its cents to EA.

There aren't "big groups" though. The biggest ones are still ran by one or two administrators and volunteer staff members. And the bills are paid by donations and advertising on the website.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

I'd guess most of the time the bills aren't paid up... those people like so much classic UO that they will shell out money so they get anything that feels close enough !

The guys who killed Ultima are far gone, you have to give the current team some credit, I've seen acceptable events and stuff going on, the new content is flowing for the first time in a seamless way.

It's like the maker of this game said hey this is a nice world but it has a fatal flaw, noone knows for sure if true mysticism made its way in the history of UO and if it had a terrible consequence on the "balance of power", and to what scale ?

I'm being a little too philosophical, it's like they tought well we'll bury it ! Lets make tons more gold, tons more stuff so what was hacked is now pointless, but what was hacked was also UO itself, its soul if you will. Both concepts are fused.

Food for tought...

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

It's so paradoxal that it feels unreal.

How can there be so much doubt in your minds that its indeed coming ?

Perhaps the community link was broken because we resent ... something about Gariott's departure.

That something must be something owned or directed by the guardian, but since it just represents the power of industry and not EA directly ; they should and will use that leverage to create the best story every to be played out dynamically by a dedicated player base eager to have a regular schedule of fun with the best team there is.

It is within reach, the fatal flaw, the problem in truth is resides with the constant politisation of strongly affected contributors on both sides of the symbolic "veil" between GM and player ; that is necessary in a way to create the intrigue which is the goal of keeping a game alive.

Very tough. Requires not only perfect intra-communication but choregraphy and a fluidity.

Thats why people feel bad towards us, because we kind of create a black hole about it ; even if black hole there is, we will still speak truth. They feel we darken the devs effort for new content, we always find a way to twist it negatively.

That has been at least acknowledged...

Following the death of Mondain, Mondain's remains - his heart, brain, and an arm - came into the possession of monks of the Brotherhood of the Rose. Each year since, the remains had been put on display in commemoration of the Stranger's victory, and 300 years after Mondain's defeat, the next place for display was Vesper. The fates of the shards of the shattered Gem, however, were unknown until that time. Some may wonder how there may be gems within the worlds if the worlds are in the gems, but rest assured many saw them with their own eyes. Scattered throughout the land were strange tombstones with odd riddles, and the solution to these riddles lead seekers to find those lost shards, but the shards themselves also offered riddles, and these led to a prophecy:


Upon a day when snow doth fall, A gathering will form of noblemen, Among them some who quarrel still, Between free will and the civil man. Whilst watched by mice and monsters both, A challenge shall be made, That breaketh lances and severs growth, And stains fair grass with hate. Perhaps one day shall reconcile, Two men whose hearts were once the same. Till then the world shall tremble dire, And none shall fix the blame.

Dream on Avatar, for your chance is night, train as if it was upon you.

The classic server is coming.

 

[Metalstorm]

I'm not getting into the debate as I will play UO regardless but...

I support and would consistently play on a classic shard.

I second that. I too will play regardless but I would love to play in a "skill based" world again.

I used to take pride in what "I" did. Now I can only take pride in my equipment.

I enjoy it and will continue to do so but a return to skill based play would be exceedingly exhilarating.

 

[Aragon100]

Benefits everyone?

The ones that lost their game february 2003 havent had a subscription UO game to play. Freeshards was their options.

AoS detroyed their UO. They wont come back to play on some new boats.

To get these old players back UO will have to make a time warp back to the game we played before AoS.

Boohoo. The game evolved, gained new content and so forth that benefited EVERYONE. Don't like it? Don't agree with it? Go play a freeshard.

The ones that enjoyed skillfull PvP and full loot, a risk vs reward and consequencial game were not benefited by AoS. They were punished. Punished bigtime.

Their beloved UO was taken from them and only option was to play on freeshards.

The oldest and most faithful subscribers was put out in the cold. Their game was lost. Developers didnt care for their gamestyle. They prioritated and benefited a totally different playstyle.

So if you talk about who was benefited with AoS you have to understand what UO was before AoS were implemented.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

That was made clear a while ago on the first thread, you should be quoting not making sure a guy that names himself Bill Gates understand ; this is petty bickering.

It would be funny however that the worlds most rich and known people are all hardcore UO addicts where they play out the classic double personality of being the good guy in a guild while being a lone murderer at night ; then pass on the ill gotten gains for the evil pleasure of seeing people use it unwittingly.

Oh yes evil there is, the guardian is peering over your lives like open books right now.

If those famous people have indeed an identity here, it would answer lots of questions I have been having about how it played out.

We all seem to agree that the game was never intended to evolve that way, it was supposed to remain skill based and there should have been expansions upon that instead of items. That is basic rationalisation.

We're being told by the devs, yes but. No. Finally a resounding no.

This isn't rational, well if there was more skills instead, there would be more options, more ingenuity from people. More headaches for the devs, more fun for the players in a sense.

That is also basic rationalisation.

We need to start by agreeing on something !

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Anybody else see the connection ?

Why would they not do a classic shard in... how many years now ?

Anyways, why.

No basic rationalisation can get a conclusion on that matter. Isn't that strange ?

It's extreemly strange and alarming. Not only EA has chinese servers, but they got other games that cost so much that UO and only few people play... Some game liscences cost more than UO ever cost.

I do not means to say that EA is evil or bad here, but somewhere, something has purposefully made it "not see" this part of UO playerbase.

We are a quite transparent people, in a way, but also a very confused people. We don't even agree about what is decency in communication !

But from any point of view the "old timer" clearly manifests out of even players young as 10-14 years old, they do play UO and want to get a skill and ingenuity based sandbox. They are not impressed by numbers go-go.

In dreams, they would automatically work together on whatever issue is presented to them...

I am convinced a UO "old timer", young or old, would recognize one another from a bunch in real life. rofl.

There was a time when you were in the zone for the right timing, you were so proud of having used that blue potion at that time in the fight which saved you from that mace hit that would have stunted you, even more fun was the tournaments which were as simple as intuitively knowing when to evade and when to attack agressively.

The simple + * system in action, fun forever, if the choice of skills is complexified in an hygienic manner only. The closest that came to that is Darkfall I think, but I have not even dared to go there yet for obvious reasons.

For now the most important riddle to clarify is why there was not even an attempt at a test classic shard made. Perhaps it was intentional, the delay. Perhaps they plan something big.

I will remain stern as a house fly and insistant like the spider but with the honesty of the mole and with the spacial sense of the axolotl and the patience of a benthocodon jellyfish oh yes.

Some strange thing that lives in the sea and can get very, very angry.

 

[copycon]

I think the real reason behind all of it is that EA was content with their active subscriber count.

Now, over so many years, some significant number of subscribers have moved on for many different reasons and UO has very little draw because of market saturation and lack of a defining element from other MMOs. So, typical reaction is to try and rekindle interest, hence the mention of "Classic Shard".

What still remains to be seen is if it was something sincere, or a game of smoke and mirrors...

I suppose we will know the answer by 12/31/2010.

 

[Trebr Drab]

I think they want to get the thoughts of the players in a specific sense, you know, what exactly it was about "classic" that players truly want. I think the decision is up in the air,

-should they make a classic shard and what would that do to the game as a whole,
-should they take specific things from the classic UO and add them into the existing game,
-should they just forget it entirely
-what to do with PvP

I've said my piece extensively over the years about this. I can count on one hand the number of players who've agreed with me (publicly). I want the middle road. Almost all the rest of you want an extreme one way or another on several issues. Extremes don't work for masses.

You all seem to have missed their tests. That event that went to Fel, and everyone was p.o.ed because they were getting PKed and the event was ruined for them...that was a test. To see how bad PKers would act. You dummy PKers continue to screw yourselves. The rest of us aren't much better, for the most part, as we failed to muster ourselves and defend our rights (except I think Catskills?). But defending without the teeth of a justice system that works isn't going to last, is doomed because we don't want to fight all the time. And PKers do. We lose that war of attrition right out of the gate.

 

[copycon]

I think they want to get the thoughts of the players in a specific sense, you know, what exactly it was about "classic" that players truly want. I think the decision is up in the air,

-should they make a classic shard and what would that do to the game as a whole,
-should they take specific things from the classic UO and add them into the existing game,
-should they just forget it entirely
-what to do with PvP

I've said my piece extensively over the years about this. I can count on one hand the number of players who've agreed with me (publicly). I want the middle road. Almost all the rest of you want an extreme one way or another on several issues. Extremes don't work for masses.

I agree with this. I think anyone who is a reasonable person that also wants "classic UO" would not expect EA to provide a "classic" shard meaning UO as it was near launch. The game at that time was literally full of bugs, exploits and imbalances and even had issues keeping a consistent uptime.

In many people's opinions (including my own), the introduction of Trammel and the splitting of facets was the beginning of the end of the game that we all knew and loved because it literally changed the rules of how the game was played. There was no longer a need to maintain a balance between good/evil, rich/poor, risk/safe and so on because there was no further need. So, any "classic" shard that provides a "close enough" experience without Trammel and many of the "features" that were introduced afterwards would be a fair compromise for me personally. I would adapt as long as there was some type of sustainable balance in place.

You all seem to have missed their tests. That event that went to Fel, and everyone was p.o.ed because they were getting PKed and the event was ruined for them...that was a test. To see how bad PKers would act. You dummy PKers continue to screw yourselves. The rest of us aren't much better, for the most part, as we failed to muster ourselves and defend our rights (except I think Catskills?). But defending without the teeth of a justice system that works isn't going to last, is doomed because we don't want to fight all the time. And PKers do. We lose that war of attrition right out of the gate.

I wasn't aware of any "tests" personally, but I can say that if EA was trying to test something related to PvP, they probably got exactly what they asked for. I would imagine that most people who played UO at that time that enjoy PvP were foaming at the mouth long before that test went live, so I'm not surprised at the outcome. That is an element of the game that a fair amount of people never experienced and have heard all about, or have not experienced for quite some time, so I'd bet that they were chomping at the bit to see what all of the uproar is all about.

 

[sendit]

I posted a question in the Ask the Devs forums, but it didn't show up.

I want to know if there will be a Classic shard. Over the years producers have teased us that there would be, but nothing ever came of it that I know of. Why not give us a yes or no?

I logged back in for the Re-enlisters promo or whatever it's called, and was as dissapointed as ever. I'm not interested in all the complicated gear and neon junk.

I just want a simple classic medeival Ultima themed game. Pre-renaissance was the best game I've ever played.

It was simple, exciting, and fun.

 

[Babble]

For now there will be no classic shard.
Check next year, maybe they decided then:

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Babble ?

 

[copycon]

tick.. tick.. tick.. tick.. tick.. tick..

Countdown to 12/31/2010

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

they actually said , before that date

 

[Argoas]

Hey, more old-school screenshots old days to fed-up this thread
Index of /uo
from siege and chessy

 

[Dorset]

@ Argoas, great pics!

Really does bring back the memories. Fingers crossed for a classic shard

 

[Evlar]

Maybe they could make it a "booster".

*chuckles*

Hell, I'm sure it would get more praise that what's just been released...

 

[copycon]

I love screenshots like that.

Here's one that I took earlier today...

I won't say where I took it because I realize that advertising player run shards is prohibited, but I can say that it was a blast.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

stop it ! making me nostalgic...

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

Hey, more old-school screenshots old days to fed-up this thread
Index of /uo
from siege and chessy

Nostalgia sets in. I wish I could have saved all my shots from Great Lakes back in the day.

 

[K_Sarai]

I first started playing in December of 2007 (a few months late). It was a very ROUGH start. Extremely, in fact! In lieu of all the PK'ing and the PvP buzzing around me there were plenty of good people online that would actually interact and talk to you, most of them total strangers. And yes, you had your players who hardly ever left town.

It only took a few short months until I began to excel. It wasn't THAT bad. You didn't have to have GM (or 120%++++) skills and full regalia to defend yourself or even win a fight. You could win a fight naked for heavens sake! With 70's in your skills I made a TON of online friends and we relied on each other to skill, hunt, roleplay, everything...

Are you going to get killed on a Classic Shard? Yes. Will you and your many guildies and friends get revenge for you? Absolutely! Does anyone even remember the phrase "don't take with you what you can't afford to lose" ?

If my tower was under attack by an army, all it took was an ICQ and 10 gates would open and here come the cavalry to help me fight back. The fighting was "fun" whether you won or lost. Same holds true for being held hostage stuck at guard borders. Or a dungeon. Or anywhere, really.

The reason the old system worked was because there was accountability and anything you lost was completely replaceable. And what the players who have gone miss is the rush of adrenaline and the suspense - it's gone now as there is no fear of loss, whether it's a 20m pair of leggings or a GM short spear.

Who is to say if the shard would work - I believe it could, but it's going to take perhaps some beta testing first, and participation from people who could dare to step outside of the box a little bit. I'm pretty sure if the naysayers were given the opportunity and stuck with it for just a week, they wouldn't look back at their expansion shards.

 

[lynxofeuropa08]

hurry up and make this work osi

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

I miss so much about those days. I remember how tight knit the community was. You knew who would be heading out to fight PK's if someone shouted "PK's at X-roads, or Cove or whatever" at WBB. I remember the suicidal charges into Gates and Dungeons not knowing if you were going to run straight into a paralyze field or boxes set right at the dungeon entrance.

I think my fondest memory of the pre-tram days (other than my guild )was fighting Rocky Raccoon at the Cove orc fort. There was about 15-20 of us and he just did everything right while we were all working against ourselves basically. It was beautiful. He'd isolate the weakest of us and take him down. It was a pretty honorable fight too. Obviously he couldn't stop to loot any of us other than to try to take some black pearls or mandrake root, and when we killed him we let him heal and re-equip before we were after him again.

I wish more people had tried PvP back then instead of whining. It was the most fun and memorable thing you could do back then.

And for the record, while a Pre-Tram (Pub 3 or 4 IMO) classic shard would be fine by me, I support ANY classic shard that doesn't have AoS. With or Without Tram.

 

[Rudyom]

I wholeheartedly agree that UO has lost the element of risk. I admit I preferred it when it was a gameworld where people had freedom. They could attack each other and it was possible to lose equipment.

This meant that people could experience a rush of adrenaline and the excitement of true adventure. To me that's somewhat rare for an online game. I cannot say I've felt that same feeling when playing other MMO's.

It's important to accomodate different playstyles and some people have absolutely no interest in PVP. I think something needed to be done to accomodate that playstyle. I know nobody wanted the dreaded 'PVP switch'. It was thought it was too 'artificial' and that it would break the realism of the world. Trammel I think was actually a swing too far, it segregated the population with the effect that it effectively removed all element of risk. Insurance simply added to that.

Risk was something that should have been retained. It should have been controlled rather than simply being removed from the game altogether.

The flip side of risk was that you could be impressed by the good nature of people. It never ceased to amaze me how complete strangers would come to the assistance of others (giving up their play time purely to help right a wrong).

I used to have a large forge south of Trinsic on Sonoma. I became great friends with both of my neighbours. If I remember correctly the relevant names were Aragorn, Sir Madman and Dakkon. The memory gets rustly, this is going back approximately 10-13 years. Aragorn and Sir Madman had another large forge to the east of mine. Dakkon had a large brick house to the west. All of us formed a bond and trusted each other.

One day I stupidly forgot to remove my house key and house rune from my backpack before heading to a dungeon (before friends lists, lockdowns and secures etc). My house was raided by a guild operating out of a house east of Yew. I lost everything. However, I followed them through the gate they had used and found their guild house. Dakkon mounted a counter strike (he was a well known one man killing machine on Sonoma).

At the end it was us who raided their guild house (I think we ended up better off?). It's one of the hallmark moments for me in playing online games. It made me feel like there were actually people behind the characters. Friends who cared about what happened. We turned a bad situation into the best. We had a memorable story to tell. We did it as players, left to our own devices without involvement from Developers, Seers or Event Moderators.

If I remember correctly one of the original concepts surrounding UO was to give players a world, give them the tools and let them create it. It reflects a somewhat hands off approach, let people organise themselves. It is the circumstances themselves which lead to the creation of communities. The presence of risk leads people to band together for protection or to achieve a goal. Why should the virtual world be any different to reality?

UO unfortunately followed the approach of World of Warcraft. If one steps into that world it becomes quickly apparent, at higher levels, that guilds are important. Guilds are reflective of a community. They reflect the coming together of players to share resources and do battle in the harder instances. The objective being to increase ones level or obtain more power items. In my view they are somewhat superficial communities compared to those once present in UO. They are somewhat hollow communities.

It was the presence of risk that led to the formation of communities in UO. The groups that would wait around social centres (banks) to hear reports of player killers so they could go hunt them. The groups that would form merchant communities to re-equip anyone who had fallen in the world. The sub-groups that would gather resources for the merchants. The sub-groups that would then band together to protect the resource gatherers in exchange for payment. The groups that would roleplay, who would develop their own militia to protect the community they sought to foster and develop (Oasis on Sonoma).

My point is that communities and guilds used to form for a variety of purposes in UO.

I think if one talks about the 'good old days' of UO what one is really talking about is the communities. People do not necessarily miss the PVP or the adrenaline rush of seeing 'Vas Flam'. They miss the sense of community that spawned from risk and the possibility of loss. They miss the realism (which is not necessarily about fancy graphics).

It is hard for any producer or developer to ignore the successful behemoth that is World of Warcraft. However, the goal should not be to compete with World of Warcraft. Other models are equally successful, even those focussed upon freedom and risk (Second Life? I've only had limited exposure to it so cannot really comment more).

The goal should be to go back to the concept, to create a world.

Afterall, who would really want to play in the safe 'sandbox'?

 

[K_Sarai]

The changes that took place, along with the people calling the shots behind them had absolutely no problem completely taking away an entire gaming population's playstyle with no other alternative, except for a cop-out shard such as the Perilous Seat (Siege Perilous). Does anyone really believe that's working? Has anyone even checked out how barren Siege is? It's ridiculous.

The people that want a classic shard aren't wanting it so that they can mass gank and repeatedly grief and PK players - they want their game back! The rush and risk factor, return of an online community, alongside player accountability. They also probably hold out the hope that if the classic ruleset shard does come to fruition, that many of their old online friends they once knew would return. This isn't the same thing as a high school reunion - they want back what they had before it was snatched out from under their very keyboards.

Then, everyone can play a game that suits their playstyle. I'm convinced that anyone who has never tried this ruleset would be hooked in a matter of hours or days, at the latest. And if it's way too much for them to handle, they can leave. If losing a few GM items and not wanting to turn to a guild, or RP or anything else the game has offered for over a decade makes them soak their keyboard and mouse with sweat, then maybe they do belong on the regular shards. I still to this day cannot fathom how one could be so faint of heart over an online game... heck, you never know - that person who never once ever ventured into Felucca could try the classic shard ruleset, fall in love with it and become one of the greatest PvP'ers in the history of UO, and they might not have ever even realized it because they never tried.

Now: Imagine if OSI/EA/Mythic/Whatever turned around and said "we are applying the Felucca ruleset to all facets across ALL shards, including Ilshenar." Think people would quit? Would people be in an uproar? Probably so... but then maybe they'd know how it felt for the rest of us when they did the exact opposite to us.

The very least they can do to make it up to us for ruining the game we knew is to give us the option to have it back, whether it be seperately or otherwise. I'd pay for it, in a heartbeat.

EA/Mythic has a whole DROVE of people BEGGING to give players a classic server in Dark Age of Camelot. Their Trials of Atlantis and New Frontiers spoonfed the candymouth masses with pixelcrack and ruined thousands of players online experience. It was never broken to begin with, so why fix it? I just don't get it.

So I truly believe that EA/Mythic is starting to listen to this, because people are begging, pleading and supplicating for the very same thing on an entirely different game - could we all be wrong? I highly doubt it.

The one thing that all of these new games lacks upon their release is the one thing that the traditional UO had and could have once more, and that is why the return of this would set a precedent, demonstrating that UO once again has historically done what no other genre has, without the need for mind bending graphics and pixel crack out the ying yang.

 

[bt002m]

"The Reds and Blues of today's player-base are vastly different from the days of old. Most Blues will not be able to adapt to the environment...the current player-base of Reds would not change their play-style, instead they would continue their gank tactics, killing for no reason, smack talking, childish behavior and grief tactics. The Reds of old were not like this, most did not grief players and do gank squads"

I am not sure what game you played back in the day. From day one there were reds who did nothing more than sit around and prey on new players coming out of Britain through the mountain pass or via the graveyard. There were many blues who never learned how to properly escape, and paid the price for it. That being said, the only way to LEARN how to escape is to be forced into a situation where escape is necessary. Everyone will die, but that is what made UO challenging and rewarding. The suggestions about reverting UO to its oldest and most classic form make no sense. What made UO great was that you could be unique (via neon hair or other clothing) without any of it impacting your ability to play the game. The same was true of vet rewards (unless you want to sit here and tell me that the +2ar on cloaks and robes made any difference, or that riding an ethereal made you inherently better at the game). The problems arose when players could bind items to increase their abilities. In the old UO world, you could carry a rare vanq spear, but if you were not skilled, it was not going to do you much good (you might get a kill or two before 1. a thief took if off you or 2. some players got wise to your act and killed you for it. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with having rare items, neon hair or vet rewards on a classic server, so long as the "blessed" items remain relatively innocuous, and there are no ways to insure items of power.

I am not even going to address your point about meditation, because in my opinion there is no logical reason to keep it out of a classic server.

Housing: I remember playing in 1997 and losing my house because someone stole my key. It sucked and I learned my lesson, but I am not sure that it improved my game experience or made my successful purchase of another house any more rewarding. The housing system back then was not nearly as enjoyable or as rewarding as the housing system circa 2002. What is the harm of having lock downs and true ownership of houses? If anything, it encourages a balanced red/blue environment because people have a home to feel relatively secure in. There is a big difference between creating a classic shard that rewards skill and ability (it is still not easy to get a castle) and a shard that discourages house ownership because of fear of losing one's key.

No bank in Buc's den? Wow, take on of the greatest cities in the game and render it completely useless. The whole POINT of buc's den was that it served as a haven for reds, and provided an incredibly fun area for adventurers, murderers and thieves alike.

The most IMPORTANT point when discussing a classic shard is to remember what is was that made UO great. OSI/EA created a game where you were forced to rely purely on your own skill and talent as a player, and the rewards of one's skill could be great. Do you remember the pride you felt when you had enough money to own a house, or to get neon hair or even to bless a pair of sandals. All of these things had NO impact on your ability in the game, but provided a thrill beyond anything I have experienced in any later "item-based" mmorpgs. There is no reason to wipe out half of what made UO great by reverting to a pre-t2a world. All EA has to do is create a shard that mimics most of what we had around 2001-2002 (publish 15 sounds pretty good to me), when the game was still based on a player's skill and NOT on insured items that player had on him. You should feel free to carry magical plate and vanq weapons into battle, but you better be able to use them and survive, because if you die, they are gone. THAT was the point of UO. It made you accountable for your actions, and provided a risk/reward experience that thrilled beyond any of the "end-game" content available in today's games.

As for the player base, a properly executed classic server will bring back many players who have not found a game that rival's the world of UO. The adventure was not in the end game content, it was in creating your character and fortune from nothing, and feeling pride in every gold, rare and home that you earned along the way.

 

[Rudyom]

'Pixel crack out the ying yang.' Hahahaha. Love it.

The only thing I am concerned about with this debate is the premise that former players would return in droves to UO. I am not convinced about that.

UO on release was at the forefront of internet gaming. It was in a league of it's own. That's not the case anymore with a number of other offerings available which, in your words, boast a lot more 'pixel crack'.

That said, doubtless a few would return. However, would it be enough to cover costs? Questionable.

What's needed more than a re-introduction of an old rule set is a solid design concept for UO. The initial developers, to my knowledge, had theories about online world design and communities. They wanted to create a world that would have an unprecedented level of depth and freedom. Raph Koster's virtual ecology is an aspect which comes to mind. The point is that there was a design concept for what was being created.

I would be interested to hear what the current developers perceive as being the design concept for UO. What are you striving to make?

 

[MrWilliams]

The "Ilshenar later" came in because people were throwing out things like "well, you will just have a shard that will remain static forever".

That's never been the intention of most of us here.

As Ray stated, in the beginning the landmass should be kept as small as possible. I have often argued for Britannia only at launch, and then add the Lost Lands like 6 months to a year later. Ilshenar was mentioned because of all the "new" lands, it would probably be closest to fitting in with a Classic Shard.

Don't take this the wrong way eekamouse, I am not saying this as an attack...but if you think that Classic UO would be boring, why not just stay on your current shard...or join Siege? Siege has open PvP and it includes all the new content.

It's the new content that most of us are trying to get away from.

But, as I said, I don't think too many people have ever stated that the shard should never get new content...just not the new content that the current shards got (Trammel, AoS, Tokuno, Malas, that ridiculous Elf tree thing (Scriptwood? No, Heartwood...sorry), and Stygian Abyss).

I just think that the less land there is in the beginning, the more community will gel.

Also, think about it, the main reason most people go to the new areas is to farm the uber items that drop there. If the items weren't there, most people would lose interest. The original landmass and T2A were plenty of land to keep people interested at one time...and that was when the shards had a much higher population.

Excellent points all of these. I remberer the pre-Trammel/Ilshenar days and there was always plenty to do. Furthermore, the intoduction of new lands fragmented the community and divided the player base. I remember during T2A being able to go to any town in Britannia and there being loads of people around. The world was bustling with activity and player interaction, trade and mutual dependence was at an all time high.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

community is key

 

[Keep Hope Alive]

Bring back the Classic Shard

 

[Carharrt]

Play Siege and enjoy aspects of the game that are already there instead of pining for something that will never be.

 

[Black Sun]

Please don't necro a thread a year later just to add