Would You Still Play UO if it were All Fel Rules?

[EnigmaMaitreya]

The Harder you have to work for something the sweeter it is when acheived.... Competition is what makes the game fun. If you simply clicked a button and received whatever you want in game I doubt any of us would be playing anymore. A thinking player as an opponent can NEVER be equaled by a machine...

This is generally why there will never be a compromise between the camps that would enable one world.

It states things as universal truths, things that are true for every person. Then makes it clear there is another group .... that is beneath recognition/consideration.

While the poll results as of this post 50/50 is interesting. It really does hide the most important aspect.

100% of the No's are solid and unambiguous.

Take the other 50% and it will break down to yes and NO'S depending on WHAT PvP RULES/CLIENT is the bases for the shard.

While I vote NO in this Poll, I would vote YES to a Classic Shard ... BUT ... that is 100% dependent on what Client Publish is the basis for the shard.

 

[Beastmaster]

Fel rule set ..."hard mode" while the Trammel rule set is "easy mode".

QFT...la

When you QFT (quote for truth) which by definition attributes it to the person you are quoting it is not an accurate quote if you remove the context. I attributed those remarks to someone else. I do not agree with them...al

 

[Uriah Heep]

On the upside it'd be nice to clean out the 23/7-AFK-Banksitters lol!!!

Umm, unless my memory is really really bad, all fel ruleset wont solve the banksitters...you still cant attack em in GZ,
Altho ya could rob em blind

 

[ColterDC]

I voted yes, but if the question was "Would you still play UO if it were an all Fel Ruleset, with all the damn cheating that is currently allowed"

Then my answer would be No.

 

[Jove]

Obviously I am wrong but I'll say it anyway, I'm here to play a video game. I thought playing a video game and interacting with other people would be cool, of course that was 9 years ago. Now I see that the only interaction most people want is what can I get and how can I get it from you. I was seriously thinking this morning that I should just quit playing this game. I was thinking of SA and how EA is making it a dual thing for both PvP and PvM. I don't look at PvP as a challenge, I look at it as something I have to put up with. I'm tired of putting up with it. All I wanted to do is play a video, go kill the monsters that are there and the challenge there of, its turned into a major PvP thang. You can have it. Probably a good thing for the online world but its not for me...


Greed makes people crazy and no good has ever come of it. Let man destroy the world, EA can do what they will with the Virtual one....

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Obviously I am wrong but I'll say it anyway, I'm here to play a video game. I thought playing a video game and interacting with other people would be cool, of course that was 9 years ago. Now I see that the only interaction most people want is what can I get and how can I get it from you. I was seriously thinking this morning that I should just quit playing this game. I was thinking of SA and how EA is making it a dual thing for both PvP and PvM. I don't look at PvP as a challenge, I look at it as something I have to put up with. I'm tired of putting up with it. All I wanted to do is play a video, go kill the monsters that are there and the challenge there of, its turned into a major PvP thang. You can have it. Probably a good thing for the online world but its not for me...


Greed makes people crazy and no good has ever come of it. Let man destroy the world, EA can do what they will with the Virtual one....

So just because a part of the new expansion (let's ignore the last like 5 expansions that have been pretty much PvM only) is PvP, you are going to quit?

Really?

 

[Harlequin]

I was seriously thinking this morning that I should just quit playing this game...I'm tired of putting up with it...You can have it...Greed makes people crazy...

*Waits for the "Can I have your stuff?* people to come in

Let man destroy the world, EA can do what they will with the Virtual one....

That's utterly wasteful! Why destroy it when you can conquer it and have the world obeying your every wish and whim?

Have governments trembling at your feet, monarchies declaring you their sovereign, overwhelming military might crushing all who oppose you!! I want world domination!!! *mouth dribbles and foams*

*turns around and notices other people staring with their mouths open in disbelieve*

Oh! When did you get there? Erm...Did I say domination? I mean world peace...Yeah, that's it, world peace. *smiles innocently*

 

[Harlequin]

Hmm....ok, my last post wasn't very helpful heh

PvP features? I think SA will be great for PvM'rs like me! New lands, new dungeon, new race, new skills, the ability to imbue stuff, new client features to incorporate what was liked in KR, throwing weapons!

I'd always loved throwing weapons that return to you, like the magic axe in Ultima 4 onwards (and D&D), and boomerangs in Ultima 6.

Using arrows is so...wasteful...

 

[Kaleb]

Quit sayin Siege people I was one of the first at launch around 99-2000 and it was kickarse up until AOS As a Avid pvper Siege does not offer the fun and magic it once did hence the drastic population decline there. the AOS system and siege does not work what it does is divides the haves between the havenots thats why alot of new players dont stick around and siege continues to decline in #'s.

 

[Lord Drakelord]

My wife and I would close all our accounts and leave UO.

We just getting to old to play with the young pups that are out there, and we enjoy being able to play a game together online as a couple in a environment that is far away from any PvP.

How many here remember when they had 'When you died in a Felucca Dungeon you were kick from there to the nearest city and did not lose a single item'? Man the PvP thief with nuts as there was nothing to loot from the dead, and you could not get back in the dungeon for several minutes, [I believe there was a 15 minute cool down timer]. Now that I like, I would recall to a Felucca dungeon and run inside, the only way the the PvPers could get me outside was if they laid an ambush with field spells. 99% of the time I made it inside and did not care if I died, that 1% I did not make it I just pack up and go home to resupply myself.

As for mining and lumberjacking, I gave up on that when they with random, used to have quite a few Fel runes to some good locations that my crafter would recall to. Being I normally mined or LJ in the morning I was rarely PKed during this period. If I was all I lost was an ax or a shovel.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Quit sayin Siege people

no...la

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

When you QFT (quote for truth) which by definition attributes it to the person you are quoting it is not an accurate quote if you remove the context. I attributed those remarks to someone else. I do not agree with them...al

Too bad...it's true...la

 

[Der Rock]

Recently a debate has been going about a Classic Shard. Let's leave that out of the equation for the moment though. I am just curious to see how many players that post on Stratics would leave UO if there was suddenly no non-PvP areas, besides towns...the way UO started.


I am asking because I am curious how the introduction of Trammel affected the evolution of UO.

Keep in mind, this is not a request for there to be no Trammel, not a request for anything really. I am just curious as to how many, and possibly who, will vote which way.


Thanks.

no,i would not, same like 100 of thousends other player in the whole online game world, that dont play uo because of his stupid stupid so called "PVP"
UO has NO real PVP,the pvp in uo is and was TRASH
as we can see for fact, how many player an mmo these day´s could have(MILLIONS)
should tell the dev´s, that they do something absolutly wrong, till today

 

[Der Rock]

no...la

i bet, the majority of your playtime you log in on trammel shards,because to stare hidden to the wbb wall, day in and day out, on the dead siege-shard ,is sure also to boring for you :

those polls are alway´s funny, most shards are dead(fellside more then trammel)
siege shard absolutly dead at all, and then those polls.

poll is already matched years ago from the majority of players,the majority of all players in uo dont like the so called "UO-PVP"

everyone can see it,but not the "classics" (and the devs, i think)

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

i bet, the majority of your playtime you log in on trammel shards,because to stare hidden to the wbb wall, day in and day out, on the dead siege-shard ,is sure also to boring for you

Then you would be completely wrong...nice try...la

 

[Der Rock]

Then you would be completely wrong...nice try...la

oh,sry,yes i was wrong,you answers are soooooo fast everytime here on stratics
ok,i change my bet:

I bet,that 40% of your playtime,you log in on trammel-shards and 50% of your time you stare on stratics to catch every post you can get, to post something(even if it is SOMETHING):


why cant you simply post: hi folks, i am so bored on siege,what do i wrong?
i would say:" come to trammel-shards,last place to have some fun in uo"


you see, we trammies can also do some promotion here

 

[Petra Fyde]

Either this thread gets back on subject or I lock it. Your choice.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

I bet,that 40% of your playtime,you log in on trammel-shards and 50% of your time you stare on stratics to catch every post you can get, to post something(even if it is SOMETHING)

100 Million gold says you are wrong...big talker...la

 

[Pindershot]

This thread has generated some interesting ideas.

Black Rain, although somewhat brutish in his initial posts, has raised a very good question. Namely, “what is competition?” I think he’s right in when he says that we all “compete” in UO in a certain sense, even if that competition is only for recognition of accomplishment.

Ask yourself this: would you play UO if it were single player? Probably not, part of the satisfaction of the game is the interaction with other people. That interaction is inherently competitive. The competition may be to see who has the best house, the most rares, is the best role-player, is the most helpful to other players and so on.

The assumption that some PVPers in this thread have made is that the only valid form of competition is PVP. Thus we get comments that Tram is “easy” and Fel is “hard.”

The best response to this was offered in siyeng0’s post script:

(P.S. - Do you not roleplay because you're afraid that you'll fail at it and look stupid? No. You don't roleplay because it bores you. Do I not PvP because I'm afraid that I'll die and lose my gold? No. I don't PvP because it bores me.)

As a thought experiment for each side, please consider:

PVPers: would you continue to play UO if you had to compete in one of the areas other than PVP? For example, would you play if you had to assist in corpse recovery for everyone who asked for it? This would cause you to leave your preferred play-style frequently.

Non-PVPers: would you continue to play UO if it were all Fel rules AND YOU ALWAYS WON AT LEAST 90% OF YOUR PVP ENCOUNTERS? Let’s remove the whole “I’m not good enough at PVP” part of the equation. If you were able to almost always win, would you have the same issue with PVP?

 

[Tina Small]

Black Rain, although somewhat brutish in his initial posts, has raised a very good question. Namely, “what is competition?” I think he’s right in when he says that we all “compete” in UO in a certain sense, even if that competition is only for recognition of accomplishment.

Ask yourself this: would you play UO if it were single player? Probably not, part of the satisfaction of the game is the interaction with other people. That interaction is inherently competitive. The competition may be to see who has the best house, the most rares, is the best role-player, is the most helpful to other players and so on.

I tend to disagree with you here, Pindershot. I don't think everyone who plays UO is doing it primarily to be in competition with everyone else, regardless of what the form of competition might be. For many, I believe, UO is simply an interesting escape where competition, if it exists, is primarily in the form of seeing if you can bash some computer-generated monster or feel like you came out ahead of the stupid RNG in terms of gaining skills or gathering resources on a particular day. For example, if I go out to mine or lumberjack or gather leather, I have no intention of selling what I gathered. It's for my crafters to use to gain skills. I don't care one way or the other whether I've gathered more than someone else. What I care about is whether I've gathered enough to be able to spend a reasonable amount of time working on crafting the next time I want to raise skills or fill BODs. In other words, I am mostly competing with myself to accomplish my own goals. Yes, other people that play are important to my enjoyment of the game, but not because I'm competing with them. Cooperating with them and coexisting with them, yes; competing, not really.

Non-PVPers: would you continue to play UO if it were all Fel rules AND YOU ALWAYS WON AT LEAST 90% OF YOUR PVP ENCOUNTERS? Let’s remove the whole “I’m not good enough at PVP” part of the equation. If you were able to almost always win, would you have the same issue with PVP?

As I posted earlier in this thread, in situations where I'm interacting with other players, I generally prefer win-win types of situations. Most of the time, I just don't feel the need to have to blatantly prove to myself or someone else that my character's skills and/or gear are superior to theirs. Doing that just doesn't interest me because I don't see the point of it. As far as I'm concerned, everyone is unique and everyone has something that they excel at. So what if I excel at one thing and you excel at something else? Wonderful for you and wonderful for me! Vive la difference!

 

[Pindershot]

You are right, my choice of the word "competition" was a poor one.

I'm thinking primarily of Nietzsche's Will to Powerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche#The_Will_to_Power

A gross simplification of this theory is that everything humans do is an attempt to gain power. Power doesn't mean domination, it can be applied to giving charity, which is an expression of power in that it shows the giver has the power to give. Even art is viewed as an expression of power because it demonstrates the power one has to accomplish it.

In UO terms, the concept of will to power can be applied to trying to make the gameworld a better place.

I think you are right when you say you aren't competing with others. My word choice was bad. Maybe "struggle" would be better. The idea being we all struggle in UO for some purpose, including self-satisfaction.

I am trying to acknowledge that there is something to Black Rain's argument that we all have goals in the game that we try to accomplish. His happens to be PVP. For you (and me) the goals are different.

I am also trying to point out that victory in PVP doesn't equate to being the "winner" in UO. There are other pursuits that have just as much validity as victory conditions.

In writing this, I'm realizing that I am attempting to arrange a win-win for PVPers and NonPVPers. So we have that in common, too

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

You are right, my choice of the word "competition" was a poor one.

I'm thinking primarily of Nietzsche's Will to Powerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche#The_Will_to_Power

A gross simplification of this theory is that everything humans do is an attempt to gain power. Power doesn't mean domination, it can be applied to giving charity, which is an expression of power in that it shows the giver has the power to give. Even art is viewed as an expression of power because it demonstrates the power one has to accomplish it.

In UO terms, the concept of will to power can be applied to trying to make the gameworld a better place.

I think you are right when you say you aren't competing with others. My word choice was bad. Maybe "struggle" would be better. The idea being we all struggle in UO for some purpose, including self-satisfaction.

I am trying to acknowledge that there is something to Black Rain's argument that we all have goals in the game that we try to accomplish. His happens to be PVP. For you (and me) the goals are different.

I am also trying to point out that victory in PVP doesn't equate to being the "winner" in UO. There are other pursuits that have just as much validity as victory conditions.

In writing this, I'm realizing that I am attempting to arrange a win-win for PVPers and NonPVPers. So we have that in common, too

Yours is a very valid point.

And everyone is in competition in UO whether they even realize it or not. UO is made up of scarce resources, and we all compete for those resources. Otherwise, things in the game would not have a price...everything would be free. Certainly, there are some that more competitive than others, but unless you only have the things your character started with, you are competing on some level. When you are in Doom, you are hoping to get the drops. When you are at Champ Spawns, you are hoping to get the SoT. Even if you don't keep it. Look at your fame title. Is it blank? What makes you want to keep that Lady/Lord status? Do you have a monster title? How about a Vesper Museum title? In some way, even if indirect, all of those things are the result of some level of competition. There is nothing wrong with that. It is basic human nature to seek affirmation from those around us.

I think that was the point that Black Rain was trying to make...and I think some of us, myself included, took it the wrong way.

There are players like Tina, that don't like competition. There are players like Black Rain that thrive on it. But I think that most (certainly not all) UO players fall somewhere in the middle.

 

[D'Amavir]

Look at your fame title. Is it blank? What makes you want to keep that Lady/Lord status?

Most people don't need to spend millions of gold in order to get good enough gear and then spend a bunch of time calculating that gear in order to get Lord status. Some do, I am sure. But I can go out and get Lord with regular non runic GM armor.

Do you have a monster title?

Again, you are competing there against things that you know aren't speedhacking or scripting to gain an advantage over you. In PVP, you have to deal with that aspect a lot more. And, unless they changed how monster titles work, no one can stop you from getting your title. With the exception of through pvp'ing you out of the area of course.

How about a Vesper Museum title?

And again, you can get every library/zoo/museum title in the game without having to spend hours calculating what piece of armor to wear. That's just not fun for a lot of people. Some people love it. Cool.

In some way, even if indirect, all of those things are the result of some level of competition. There is nothing wrong with that. It is basic human nature to seek affirmation from those around us.

Personally, I am a big supporter of PVP in general. In practice, in UO at least, its a definitely failure to me.

I think that was the point that Black Rain was trying to make...and I think some of us, myself included, took it the wrong way.

No matter what point you are trying to make, if you wrap it around the typical 'you are a coward and want it easy' OR 'you are a 13 year old punk that cheats' comments, the people you are trying to make the point to aren't going to pay attention.

There are players like Tina, that don't like competition. There are players like Black Rain that thrive on it. But I think that most (certainly not all) UO players fall somewhere in the middle.

If the competition is fun, then I am all for it. For me, and quite a lot more people than just those posting here, the current state of UO PVP is just not fun. At all. But, as always, people will pop up and claim that that's because I lose or because I don't want competition or because I have to be the best or I don't want to take part. Which isn't the case at all.

 

[red sky]

Never had an npc **** on my corpse, **** my corpse or call me a *censored*. Maybe you play with different npc's than me. Where are those types so I can check them out?




You fail to pay attention to the many people that complain not about the dying part, but about the disrespect part, the cheating part and the gear advantage part.



Let me guess, you are a faction pvp'er than runs around with store bought armor and weapons and non magical jewelry. Right? Obviously you are because otherwise that would mean you just couldn't stand playing this video game at a more challenging level.



Again, what gear do you pvp in? Stuff you looted off regular orcs or bought off of npc town vendors or higher end gear? Be honest now. You want a challenge so I assume, once again, that you use the former option and don't play on 'easy level' by gearing up to pvp. Right? Come on, right? Really, right?

Yes, I would definitely state that the fel rule set is not for the the weak of mind. I see some of my best guild mates get into a fuss and log off after being PK'd. I suppose I have PVP'd for so long now that I am just immune to anything. For some however, who may have large egos or hotheadedness, you may want to avoid PVPing those who you know will bring you troubles. Also, I find the posts about in-game verbal abuse quite funny. I mean if you think about what fell is all about then the verbal abuse just adds more flavor to it. Those who complain about it just have a softer side than some. You would also be surprised what can get a player banned and what is legal in verbal abuse.

 

[FrejaSP]

Ask yourself this: would you play UO if it were single player? Probably not, part of the satisfaction of the game is the interaction with other people. That interaction is inherently competitive. The competition may be to see who has the best house, the most rares, is the best role-player, is the most helpful to other players and so on.

The assumption that some PVPers in this thread have made is that the only valid form of competition is PVP. Thus we get comments that Tram is “easy” and Fel is “hard.”

It's not like PvP'ers only want to PvP. Many of us do enjoy building and deco houses, showing our rares, have joy from roleplaying and enjoy helping others.
There is many ways to interact in UO, PvP is just one of them.

Many enjoy killing monsters, I have to say, monsters are boring, to me, they are just a piece of code that always act the way it's programmed to act.

Maybe you can compare PvP vs PvM to dealing with a npc vendor vs dealing with a player making a order for you. You never know how the player will act, maybe he will make you a good deal or maybe he will try to scam.

With PvP, you are interacting with an other real person, you can't know how he will act, he is real, not a piece of code.

Years ago, on Siege, I was on my crafter at my shop. My crafter do not fight but do sometimes take some risk.

A red show up, he wanted me to make him some PvP items. I made them but he could not carry them all and he did not have the money with him, think it was before we got checks.

He asked me to help carry and follow him in a gate to his house, I would then get the money for the wares.

I could had told him no and told him to get the money and pick up the items but I choose to follow him, even when I knew it could had costed me the wares and everything else on me.

We got to his home and I dropped the wares on floor. He gave me 2x the money he did own me and told me it was for good service.

This story show a little of, what I love with the fel ruleset. I love the risk, I love I never know what will happen. Also sometimes you have to trust someone.

PVPers: would you continue to play UO if you had to compete in one of the areas other than PVP? For example, would you play if you had to assist in corpse recovery for everyone who asked for it? This would cause you to leave your preferred play-style frequently.

PvP'ers do that offen for guildmembers, maybe they die to other PvP'ers or maybe they die to the spawn.
PvP'ers do every thing non PvP'ers do, they do just PvP too. some may PvP 80% of the time, others only 20% of the time.

 

[D'Amavir]

Also, I find the posts about in-game verbal abuse quite funny. I mean if you think about what fell is all about then the verbal abuse just adds more flavor to it. Those who complain about it just have a softer side than some. You would also be surprised what can get a player banned and what is legal in verbal abuse.

If you think that seeing someone emote raping your corpse and then toss out a string of moronic leet speak nonsense is 'added flavor' you need to get your taste buds checked.

And if you can't see the difference between rp'ing an evil person living in the badlands of Fel and using that rp to interact with their victims or some punk running around after killing you just saying the most gawd awful crap, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Aboo]

. . .Non-PVPers: would you continue to play UO if it were all Fel rules AND YOU ALWAYS WON AT LEAST 90% OF YOUR PVP ENCOUNTERS? Let’s remove the whole “I’m not good enough at PVP” part of the equation. If you were able to almost always win, would you have the same issue with PVP?

Yes. It's not about the winning for me, it's about the fun. I don't consider it fun to fight against another person. Against the PC is fine, but not another person.

I had a guildmaster who tried his hardest to teach me to PvP. He said I had the knowledge and the skill but I didn't have the heart for it. I just can't bring myself to deliberately fight against another person knowing they are a person. I've killed other players in game, I admit that they more than deserved what they got. But it made me sad and it didn't make me feel good.

So for some of us it isn't whether we win or lose, it's just not something we enjoy either way.

 

[ColterDC]

Until the rampant use of 3rd party programs, cheats and Hacks are addressed... I do NOT wish to have to deal with them....

The reason I don't spend more time in Fel is because I REFUSE to use all the cheats and hacks just to "compete"....

Also would be the reason you don't see me in any of the factions either. Trust me I do like to PvP..... Infact I very much enjoy it..... what I don't enjoy is dealing with cheaters.

Ever wonder how many people have left UO because of all the cheating that EA does nothing to stop?

I can count 6 people in my immediate family who are gone thanks to the cheating. That was 8 accounts X $13 a month = $1,248 a year in just sub fees, not counting anything else we bought such as expansions, tokens, etc.

Not that EA cares.

 

[pacific lily]

Until there is such a thing as character perma-death, nothing about this game could be considered "challenging."

However, things are infinitely less ANNOYING for me when I am playing UO and there is no pvp involved. Perhaps its because I am a mother and I get more than my share of annoyances in a day in the form of stupid cartoons, dirty diapers, and having to be a short order cook in my own kitchen 24 hours a day. Or maybe it's because I am a geezer and pretty much any man under the age of 30 just inherently annoys me. Hard to say.

Lily

 

[Der Rock]

so, the analyze of the poll so far is:

~50% voted NO

what does this mean?
this means that the 50% of classic Yes voters should be very happy that what they vote for will hopefully never happen. Why?
because if it would happen, another 50% customer loss would be definitely the death of the whole game.

the main problem UO has,is the linking of PVP and skill essential Scrolls/resources
the never ending experimental attempt by force player wich dont like certain playstyles
to please a minority.

i bet, if the responsible persons(Dev´s) would design a pvp ambiance, fighting for glory and fame,defending towns,dungeons or flags,save the king or conquer the hill and so on..
many many NO voters would change their mind(me include)
party,guild and faction wars in a united landscape(no fell no tram) would result in a far more active(pvp) player interaction

dev´s should have the bravery(after so many failurs) and try this !

 

[Draxous]

the main problem UO has,is the linking of PVP and skill essential Scrolls/resources the never ending experimental attempt by force player wich dont like certain playstyles to please a minority.

No.

You are the minority and this sounds like you pancakes about a personal problem.

So to really analyze the poll. UO's population, after 9+ years of trammel has a 50/50 split between those who enjoy a PvP atmosphere and those who do not.

 

[Barry Gibb]

so, the analyze of the poll so far is:
~50% voted NO
what does this mean?!

So to really analyze the poll. UO's population, after 9+ years of trammel has a 50/50 split between those who enjoy a PvP atmosphere and those who do not.

What this poll shows is that of the people who read Stratics AND decided to vote, roughly half of them would not play UO if it was an Only Felucca Rule set. This poll does not indicate who enjoys PvP and who does not (many of the No votes (mine included) stated that they PvP, but like to choose when and where they want to PvP. Not everyone that plays UO reads Stratics. Not everyone that plays UO knows about Stratics. Not everyone that reads Stratics has an account. Not everyone that has an account participates in polls (there is mention by a couple posters in theis thread that they did not vote, but posted their thoughts. Not everyone that participates on Stratics plays UO (there are some that still post and have not played for years). This poll is not and will never be representative of the population of UO subscribers.

A good deal of the Yes votes had explainations and qualifications, or else they would have voted No. There was no option for any type of "conditional yes", that would have fit their descriptions, so they felt the need to describe their vote.

the main problem UO has,is the linking of PVP and skill essential Scrolls/resources the never ending experimental attempt by force player wich dont like certain playstyles to please a minority.!

I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Are you upset that you have to PvP to powerscrolls? I have all the powerscrolls I want and never had to PvP for any of them. What resources force you to PvP for?

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Draxous]

so, the analyze of the poll so far is:
~50% voted NO
what does this mean?!

So to really analyze the poll. UO's population, after 9+ years of trammel has a 50/50 split between those who enjoy a PvP atmosphere and those who do not.

What this poll shows is that of the people who read Stratics AND decided to vote, roughly half of them would not play UO if it was an Only Felucca Rule set. This poll does not indicate who enjoys PvP and who does not (many of the No votes (mine included) stated that they PvP, but like to choose when and where they want to PvP. Not everyone that plays UO reads Stratics. Not everyone that plays UO knows about Stratics. Not everyone that reads Stratics has an account. Not everyone that has an account participates in polls (there is mention by a couple posters in theis thread that they did not vote, but posted their thoughts. Not everyone that participates on Stratics plays UO (there are some that still post and have not played for years). This poll is not and will never be representative of the population of UO subscribers.

Correct.

You are right that there is no concrete knowledge of how the playerbases are split... and for that reason, logic (and this poll) can only tell you that the answer is 50/50 until proven otherwise.

But also, reread what I wrote... carefully. I did say something about a PvP environment...

Also, I will contend forever that the game is split roughly down the middle between those who want PvP a part of their game-play and those who don't. Even though, there are oodles of trammies who insist that they are the majority playerbase... it's not true.

But it is, 50/50... because there is no evidence to suggest its not and even if it's not, it should be considered as such no matter what.

 

[Connor_Graham]

logic (and this poll) can only tell you that the answer is 50/50 until proven otherwise.

This is an assumption. Logic is based on solid, proven, facts. This poll is in no way indicative of the playerbase, as not only is Stratics not a good spread of the various playstyle types, it's also very easy to create new accounts and vote again and again for your chosen pick in order to skew the poll.

QED

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

...it's also very easy to create new accounts and vote again and again for your chosen pick in order to skew the poll.

Yeah, because people would make an alt account just to vote in this poll. What were you saying about assumptions?...la

 

[Connor_Graham]

Yeah, because people would make an alt account just to vote in this poll. What were you saying about assumptions?...la

I didn't say people were doing it, just that it could be done, and thus the poll couldn't be guaranteed to be accurate.

 

[phantus]

No.

You are the minority and this sounds like you pancakes about a personal problem.

So to really analyze the poll. UO's population, after 9+ years of trammel has a 50/50 split between those who enjoy a PvP atmosphere and those who do not.

Lol. Stratics population does not equal UO population. If it was truly 50/50 there would be more fel only content. Stratics population is skewed and is in no way an indication of the true population of UO.


That being said I did play uo with all fel rules and it wasn't too bad. Problem was it began to get bad. More and more people began playing for pvp and those people drove away the roleplayers and the people playing for ultima. It would depend on the experience. Which changed drastically all the time. No vote for the pole but I give it a maybe.

 

[Pindershot]

What this poll shows is that of the people who read Stratics AND decided to vote, roughly half of them would not play UO if it was an Only

Actually, all what this poll shows is that of the people who read Stratics AND decided to vote, roughly half of them voted for option one and roughly half voted for option two.

Whether those people would quit or continue playing would only be in evidence after the change is made.

 

[FrejaSP]

The 50/50 split in the poll may just show, that maybe 33% of the posters here is Siege players and love All Fel Rules.

I base this on the activitet of Siege forum vs UHall

UHall
Threads 10,506
Posts 206,393

UO Siege Perilous
Threads 11,243
Posts 122,896

 

[Barry Gibb]

Correct.
You are right that there is no concrete knowledge of how the playerbases are split... and for that reason, logic (and this poll) can only tell you that the answer is 50/50 until proven otherwise.:

You agree that this poll does not represent the playbase (meaning that it will never give you the answer you seek) , but then claim that it gives the "answer" of an even split. That is a contradictory statement. The reasoning you stated (including "logic" and this poll) can only tell you that you don't knw the true answer to the question. You do not know (and will not know, based on this poll) the true split of the yes/no. You do know that it cannot be 100/0 or 0/100, but you cannot determine anything in between. Stating that 50/50 is the answer is your assumption, based on the poll results that you agreed are non-representative. My assumption of 25/75 (yes/no) is more valid, because there 4 land masses that support housing and only one is Felucca rules (so 25% should be yes). Don't bother pointing out the flaws in this assumption, because with all assumptions things had to be assumed (so don't waste your time, I am not claiming that this is an infallible split). I am simply offering it as an alternative value with some rationale behind it.

But also, reread what I wrote... carefully. I did say something about a PvP environment...

Just stating that this poll does not show who enjoys PvP or not. The fact that someone plays in a PvP environment does not mean they like PvP. The fact that someone chooses to play in a non-PvP environment, does not mean they hate PvP. When I play on Siege, PvP is a part of it regardless of where you go. I choose not to PvP others on SP, but I know that they can choose otherwise. If I hated PvP, I would not play on Siege.

Also, I will contend forever that the game is split roughly down the middle between those who want PvP a part of their game-play and those who don't. Even though, there are oodles of trammies who insist that they are the majority playerbase... it's not true.

But it is, 50/50... because there is no evidence to suggest its not and even if it's not, it should be considered as such no matter what.

I am glad you feel so passionate about your assumption. I am not part of the "oodle" that goes around proclaiming I am a majority of the playerbase. The lack of supporting evidence for a 50/50 split, or for any alternative split, does not make the assumption "true".

If you want a "true", unquestionable, infallible split between who would play a Felucca Only ruleset, go play Siege Perilous. It is, undenyably, a 100/0 (yes/no) split. It is a great place to play, with good people, and an all Felucca ruleset.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Barry Gibb]

Actually, all what this poll shows is that of the people who read Stratics AND decided to vote, roughly half of them voted for option one and roughly half voted for option two.

Just the point I was trying to make, but alot simpler.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Sweeney]

The 126 Yes's should come to Siege.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

And...something else not being said here...


The poll does not ask if you prefer a PvP environment. It asks would you tolerate one. Meaning, if they made it all Fel rules, would you stay in the game. Some of the Yes votes are saying "I would not quit, but I would not prefer this".

Personally, I think that UO has gotten to be too item based to go back to a Fel only ruleset. As others have stated, if UO were to go back to being more skill based and a lot less items based, with no insurance, I might feel otherwise. Having to PvP and wanting to PvP are two totally different things. And right now, no one is forced to PvP. You can get powerscrolls for gold all over the place, so it is not like you have PvP to get them.

Also, no, this is not a poll of all UO players, but it is the only sample we have. To assume one thing or another about a playerbase that is not voting in the poll is inaccurate at best. You can only go by the poll numbers if you really want to debate the point of what percentage of the population would stay in an all Fel ruleset.

And yes, people can sign up more than once and vote more than once. Not sure why anyone would bother, but they could. I really think if you are (a) going out of you way to drive up numbers in a Stratics poll in this manner, or you (b) sit around worrying that someone might drive up numbers in Stratics poll in this manner, then you really should log off and seek help

 

[Barry Gibb]

I've been waiting for this post:

The 126 Yes's should come to Siege.

No's are welcome too.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Zuckuss]

Hehe, I have read most of this and perhaps most of your misunderstood the question of the poll (Or maybe I did).

I heard the question as "Would I STILL play UO if it had an all Felucca ruleset."

I think some of the people in this thread didn't answer the poll question. When they read the poll, the question they saw was "which one do you like better?"

I would still play this game is it was made all fel rules, and I would even still play it (although to a more likley lesser extent) if it were all TRAM rules.

I play this game for far more reasons than just PvP or PvM. It's the people! It's nice to see how many of you would "say" you would quit do to a ruleset change. I have played this game for years and I have sat and watched some of the stupidest decisions in online gaming history, but I have also seen some of the best, and UO is pretty much teh firrst of its kind, so that will always hold in teh back of my head when they fail. It's why I give them a bit of leanency.

So all you people who say you will "quit" will have no other reason to play this game if players could kill you again? There is no other reason to stay>? Not your friends? Not anything?

I sat here and watched them make a mirror image of our lands and called it trammel. I thought it was so LAME to make a mirror image of a land. I couldnt believe that they were so cheap that they ghad to use a copy of the same freakin map. If I had it my way, there would be no mirror image land, there would be felucca (the old lands) and malas, ish, and tokuno (keep all those with trammel rulest). The mirror land costed UO integrity. It was sort of the feeling you got when you are watching a primetime television show and finding an obvious, blatent easily preventable error in the story.

Malas should have been the tram, or they should have made an original map for it, not a replica map.

I have read many of your posts and I agree with elements from all of them. But UO is more than just pvp and pvm. Even when I don't play as much I still keep an account or 2 open just for the ability to chat with my friends..... that the real bonus of this game, the people you meet within it.

So yes, I would still play, I wouldnt tuck my tail and run, I would be killed over and over, and I would find new adventured with those that decided to stay with me. We would have a new agenda, we would have to learn to work together and travel and hunt in parties, wed have to learn to cross heal and remove curse each other, and call targets so we may have a chance. Nah I wouldn;t quit, and I don;t think most of you would either.

But I DO think most of you answered the question as if the result would have an impact on UO which it won't. Most of you PREFER a game with a trammel ruleset but I dont think all of you who voted, would actually quit! I mean c'mon people! making alt account just to vote on this!!!!!!! SILLY!!!!!!!

And to conclude I will give you my opinion on my ideal UO shard.

You take every update since mid 1999 and you wipe the slate clean all the way back. You have no arties, no runics, no bods, no insurance, no trammel. You had a fisherman which couldfish up vanqs, you had a t-hunter that could dig up vanqs, you had warriors that could loot them off of liche lords. Hehe I will bet most of you have no idea what a "vanq" is. There will be a use and a place for every type of player. Did you just hear me say, fishing and t-maps?????? Don't forget all that GM armor you will be selling. You could sell dexxie suit all day. You will be able to steal again and get stolen from. The risk= reward will be better than ever. This is my personalized UO shard for ME!

We could NEVER go to an all fel ruleset with the way things are now. It would be so unabalance with arties and high end gear like people have stated before in this thread. We would have to balance the game and the economy to do this.

One thing that this thread DID do for me, is that it shows that there is probably room for at least ONE shard with a pre trammel rulest. Even if you were to take the vote, and put it 75% favor of No, I dont want fel, and 25% yes I do, that still leaves enough demand to make one shard to try this.

How would making one shard for this affect everyone else? And I am not talking Siege, there are noticlble differences. Like I said Wipe the arties, insurance etc. Only way it would be possible.

 

[Draxous]

Please note that I am skipping the thought experiment that I had instigated to address this. Skimming the posts... BG may have been the only person who kind of picked up on what I was saying.

Anyways,

Personally, I think that UO has gotten to be too item based to go back to a Fel only ruleset. As others have stated, if UO were to go back to being more skill based and a lot less items based, with no insurance, I might feel otherwise. Having to PvP and wanting to PvP are two totally different things. And right now, no one is forced to PvP. You can get powerscrolls for gold all over the place, so it is not like you have PvP to get them.

Hogwash.

Pure, utter, hogwash. The fact that UO has gone in a more item oriented direction does nothing to stop UO from going back to a more traditionally Feluccan style of play.

Trammel is what makes it impossible to embrace the Feluccan ideology.

Case in point... Item insurance. The game has been tweaked and tailored to it. You have to grind grind grind grind grind to get the suit you want.

this is why so many people have complained about how crappy 99.9% of the loot drops on Tram shards are.

It takes killing a high number of lady mel's in order to get ONE crimson cincture. It is set up to make you succumb to a ridiculous investment of time and energy in order to get a piece of the suit jigsaw puzzle players are trying to piece together.

It is a treadmill and it is one you ride for a LOOOONG time. Collecting sets, suits, rares, whatever... you grind grind grind... because if you do not set it up this way, the Trammel player gets BORED and quits. There has to be a seemingly endless chasing of the carrot to keep them engaged.

Felucca (Siege) is the example I will use to illustrate Feluccan ideology. Siege has the same crappy loot drop rates as the rest of the shards in Ultima Online.

For there to be no item insurance, there would need to be a drastic change in the way items (loot) drop from NPCs. If Treasures of Tokuno were turned on permanently. If killing a doom boss guaranteed you a [cursed] artifact as well as a chance at the real thing. If lvl 6 maps had [cursed] artifacts on them. If ancient wyrms and high level monsters dropped (regularly) items with 5 properties at high intensities. If Peerless and ML named creatures dropped ML arties every time you killed one... as well as 10+ of each ingredient (instead of just 1-3 of a few.)

Not just loot from monsters, but crafting would need attention to. For example: runic kits would need 10x's the charges on them.

You would see Felucca born again.

Players who enjoy PvM, would be out hunting (in a variety of places and not just the hot-spot of the month) and then turning around and SELLING those items to others.

Players who enjoy crafting would be out crafting constantly to supply those who die and lose their items.

Players who enjoy PKing would be out hunting the hunters.

Players who enjoy PvP would be out PvPing.

Players in factions would be factioning (more often.)

Obtaining a suit to PvP or PvM with would be inexpensive. There would be an abundant supply that allowed for players to just suit up and play.

You see... the whole point of Felucca is interacting with eachother. Whether it's role-playing, PvPing, so on and so forth.

Items flow fluidly through the playerbase. Items are lost and replaced endlessly... the whole point of it all. The ULTIMATE gold sink.

Right now on Siege we have too much of trammel bleeding into Felucca... because Siege has the prodo-shard loot drop rates and crafting that is almost identical... players are limited. There is no one hunting in doom because it is not worth the time. There is no one hunting in tokuno or wearing regular runebeetle carapaces because it isn't turned on. There is no one hunting the various peerless (only lady mel) because it is not worth the time/effort to do it.

You see. Felucca and Trammel simply cannot coexist, properly. One is a sandbox and the other is a themepark.

If Siege was given the proper attention it deserved... it would function properly along side the rest of the production shards instead of being in competition with them.

And those talking about item PvP... wake-up. You are more than 6 years living in the past... UO has evolved into the PvP we have and you need to get over it. There are player-run servers if you want to experience 'classic-so-easy-a-caveman-can-figure-it-out' Ultima Online.

Have a nice day.

 

[Aurelius]

Recently a debate has been going about a Classic Shard. Let's leave that out of the equation for the moment though. I am just curious to see how many players that post on Stratics would leave UO if there was suddenly no non-PvP areas, besides towns...the way UO started.

As I never liked PvP, and so went to Trammel from the day it arrived and have never left, my answer to that question is a straight 'no' - but it did make me wonder though, if there had never been a Trammel option, would I have stayed with UO? And in all honesty, I don't know. I suspect not, or at least not for as long as I have done.

PvP combat and theft was partly avoidable, if you were careful - although it did mean there were big parts of the world where as a mainly solo player with lousy reactions and no interest in PvP, I'd never have travelled to.

Now that we have Trammel, I'd not carry on playing if it disappeared. It suits me, and my playstyle, pretty well, whereas Fel does not. Losing the choice between them would be unlikely to serve any purpose beyond annoying a chunk of the playerbase, whichever ruleset 'won'. Had the choice never been available though........

 

[Draxous]

Right now on Siege we have too much of trammel bleeding into Felucca...

Examples that would be nice if they were addressed:

- loot drops (we don't have insurance so why should we have the same loot drops?)
- instanced corpses
- instanced dungeons
- private housing that no one can enter
- ben acts (we don't have recall.)
- looting rights (why I can't loot someone elses corpse and go grey... in FEL!)
- virtue sacrifice (I get the self res thing... but do I need to keep all my loot?)
- mount stamina (mounts should get tired...)
- Treasure of Tokuno (should be on permanently... we lose our items and can't replace them... other shards just never lose them. We should still be allowed to enjoy them. Thanks.)

These are off the top of my head.

There are more... trust me.

 

[Der Rock]

Trammel is what makes it impossible to embrace the Feluccan ideology. ....
Felucca (Siege) is the example I will use to illustrate Feluccan ideology. Siege has the same crappy loot drop rates as the rest of the shards in Ultima Online. ....
You would see Felucca born again.........
You see... the whole point of Felucca is interacting with eachother. Whether it's role-playing, PvPing, so on and so forth.....
You see. Felucca and Trammel simply cannot coexist, properly. One is a sandbox and the other is a themepark. ......
Have a nice day.

what you cal the feluccan ideology is a FAILED ideology
in wich way is siege an example????? siege is the BEST example for the failed ideology
how many times the dev´s HAVE attempt to revitalize the pvp part of uo???
for me personal, TO often. they failed everytime
(till TODAY you see here and there BEGGING posts from feluccians like how much higher this or that droprate in fel is and people should come and TRY)
the only point you are right is that fel and trammel can´t coexist.
that´s why in the long term, if uo WILL survive the dev´s have NO other choice as
to remove felucca and implement a party/guild/faction pvp system only !
you can say what you want, in my personal opinion, most(sure not all)fel(pvp)only player are beggars
beggars for easy kills.
fact is,that the majority of mmporg gamers dont like the so called pvp in UO

 

[Draxous]

what you cal the feluccan ideology is a FAILED ideology
in wich way is siege an example????? siege is the BEST example for the failed ideology
how many times the dev´s HAVE attempt to revitalize the pvp part of uo???
for me personal, TO often. they failed everytime
(till TODAY you see here and there BEGGING posts from feluccians like how much higher this or that droprate in fel is and people should come and TRY)
the only point you are right is that fel and trammel can´t coexist.
that´s why in the long term, if uo WILL survive the dev´s have NO other choice as
to remove felucca and implement a party/guild/faction pvp system only !
you can say what you want, in my personal opinion, most(sure not all)fel(pvp)only player are beggars
beggars for easy kills.
fact is,that the majority of mmporg gamers dont like the so called pvp in UO

No.