Would You Still Play UO if it were All Fel Rules?

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Recently a debate has been going about a Classic Shard. Let's leave that out of the equation for the moment though. I am just curious to see how many players that post on Stratics would leave UO if there was suddenly no non-PvP areas, besides towns...the way UO started.


I am asking because I am curious how the introduction of Trammel affected the evolution of UO.

Keep in mind, this is not a request for there to be no Trammel, not a request for anything really. I am just curious as to how many, and possibly who, will vote which way.


Thanks.

 

[Alezi]

What EA did wrong when introducing Trammel was that they put it on already existing servers. What they should've done instead was to open new servers with Trammel in them and then giving free character transfers from the old servers to the new servers.

 

[Beastmaster]

The rampant cheating involved now would make an original rule set shard even worse to play on now than it was in the beginning. The Devs know this and are wise enough not to even consider implementing such bs. Trammel was born by necessity. Without it the subscriptions would have dwindled to the point of closure long ago. Trammel set the precedent for all the quick fixes we see each and every publish. Real issues that go to the heart of things are never addressed as resources are always too low. Hence we got a mirror when we were clearly told we would not get a mirror.

Before you label me anti-PvP, let me say the original rule set just prior to Trammel's creation was fun to play. However, the cheating is so widespread and overwhelming for an individual player it would not be so now. Throw it back to the old rules now and every "blue" player not only would be risking their life every time they left a guard zone, but rather they would be committing suicide within moments. There would be death squads everywhere. The joy of doing the things they love would be replaced with having to PvP for everything.

 

[Tina Small]

Recently a debate has been going about a Classic Shard. Let's leave that out of the equation for the moment though. I am just curious to see how many players that post on Stratics would leave UO if there was suddenly no non-PvP areas, besides towns...the way UO started.


I am asking because I am curious how the introduction of Trammel affected the evolution of UO.

Keep in mind, this is not a request for there to be no Trammel, not a request for anything really. I am just curious as to how many, and possibly who, will vote which way.


Thanks.

Probably not. I have characters that I play in Fel today in factions (thieves, tamers, archers) and I don't mind if they die because at most they lose some silver and bandages and the insurance costs are minimal. I also have many houses that are in Fel and on those shards all my characters, including the crafters, use the house.

However, I do not mine or lumberjack in Fel and I don't PvM in Fel because I'll be damned if I am going to hand over the resources or gold I put my time into gathering to someone else because he or she decides to take it or wants to be a jerk. That's all it comes down to for me, Morgana. I am not "afraid" of anyone. I just like knowing that whatever venture I decide to put my time into on a particular day won't end up being a waste of time and won't end up enriching someone who wants to act like a jerk.

I know that a possible solution would be to join a guild and have them hang out with me for protection while I mine, or LJ, or go kill monsters for gold. Unfortunately, I like my independence and being able to do stuff when it's convenient for me and I also hate the thought of having to impose on someone else to "stand guard" while I'm doing something so menial as chopping trees.

Maybe that's just a result of 50 years of "real life" living and being female. I don't need or want my husband to have to shepherd me through every activity of my life just to make sure I stay safe. So I do the things I'm capable of doing and use my head and do them where I'm reasonably safe. For example, in real life if I wanted to buy a particular item at a bargain, I probably would tend to buy it at less of a bargain in a safe area rather than go alone to an unsafe area to buy it at a better price. Depending on what it was, of course, I just might drag my husband along to the unsafe area to get it, but knowing me and the way I value my independence, that would be fairly unlikely.

Guilds can be a wonderful thing and I enjoy belonging to them when it feels like everyone in the guild is perceived as being on more or less equal terms. However, at this point in my life, I just don't think I'd be interested in being forced to join one mostly for protection purposes. Just ain't my style.

 

[Vexxed]

There would be death squads everywhere. The joy of doing the things they love would be replaced with having to PvP for everything.

The Harder you have to work for something the sweeter it is when acheived.... Competition is what makes the game fun. If you simply clicked a button and received whatever you want in game I doubt any of us would be playing anymore. A thinking player as an opponent can NEVER be equaled by a machine... I doubt simply going out to tame Cusidhe's till you get a good one gets your heart racing like seeing a red charging your group of spawners on the island in Despise.....

 

[D'Amavir]

The Harder you have to work for something the sweeter it is when acheived.... Competition is what makes the game fun. If you simply clicked a button and received whatever you want in game I doubt any of us would be playing anymore. A thinking player as an opponent can NEVER be equaled by a machine... I doubt simply going out to tame Cusidhe's till you get a good one gets your heart racing like seeing a red charging your group of spawners on the island in Despise.....

The difference is that you can be fairly sure that that Cu isn't using speed hack or an illegal script when you go up against it. And you also know that the Cu didn't spend billions of gold on a bunch of items that makes facing it in your normal gear pretty much senseless.

The short answer is, no. I wouldn't. But, the long answer is still no. But with reasons. Old UO, when I started playing in 98, wasn't perfect by any means. But it wasn't the vastly item based game that it is now. You can't go back to a Fel only ruleset while UO is still so item based and expect the average player to enjoy it. That mentality is like trying to take humanity back to the stone age with no electricity or computers but still have everything in the world electronics based and unusable in the new world. You can't go back and still keep things the same. You either have to go forward or you have to change everything in order to make going back even possible.

 

[Lady Aalia]

It would be a no for me...

While i do not mind Felucca at all and love to listen to the old stories of how things where then, i do not think i would enjoy playing.

PvP is just too stressfull for me, too fast paced... i admire the hardcore players and like to watch but its just not my playstyle

 

[Maplestone]

I am asking because I am curious how the introduction of Trammel affected the evolution of UO.

The real question is whether or not you're actually open to listening to the will of your fellow players or whether this is a heads-I-win-tails-you-lose poll where you will just claim the result supports your cause no matter what it is.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Nope. Fel rules everywhere would see me shutting down my account and finding another game. There's a very good reason why Tram had to be introduced in the first place.

 

[Haddy G]

And the Cu probably wont call me a noob, loser, go back to tram p***. Not that I care, I been called worse in other games. But some folks would take it personally and quit.

The only way I would pvp in this game is one kill the 2d client and two get rid of insurance.

 

[MuffinBear]

PvP is so pathetic right now I do not think it would be fun to play.

If it was pre AOS I think I would but not the way PvP is now.

 

[D'Amavir]

And the Cu probably wont call me a noob, loser, go back to tram p***. Not that I care, I been called worse in other games. But some folks would take it personally and quit.

The only way I would pvp in this game is one kill the 2d client and two get rid of insurance.

What does 2d client have to do with it? And getting rid of insurance wouldn't really help when it comes to getting rid of the item based issue with today's UO. A guy willing to carry all his high ends even without insurance vs a guy wearing base gear still ends up with the guy with the high ends winning. So the insurance really didn't have an effect on him. The people that would be hurt by no insurance would be those people that have a one or two decent items but keep losing them after being looted by the person wearing five or six of them.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

The real question is whether or not you're actually open to listening to the will of your fellow players or whether this is a heads-I-win-tails-you-lose poll where you will just claim the result supports your cause no matter what it is.

Honestly, there is no win or lose. The decision was made by the devs almost 10 years ago. I am just simply curious. For my part, I voted yes...but even in the first 5-6 posts I have seen some compelling reasons to vote no. Cheating being the #1 thing. Speedhacks, stumphacks, scripts, etc. are something you didn't see much of, if any, back in the old days. But that is not to say they would not have come along had UO followed a different path. I think the hacks are the result of time rather than the result of the direction UO took, so I might be right there with the No voters if for no other reason than the cheating.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

I only play Siege...so yes, I would continue to play...la

 

[UOKaiser]

Look at the number of players in siege compared to production. Look at the number of players hanging in trammel compare to the dead zones of felluccia. I believe that will answer youre question on how many people will be left in UO without trammel.
Trammel was placed for a very good reason. Uo would of being dead long ago if it wasnt for it.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Without the Trammel ruleset, UO would probably not exist, so my answer is "no".

The Fantasy-based MMOG market has dictated that people want a choice in regards to if they are involved in PvP or not. It's no surprise that the attempts at a "pure PvP" game has ended up in total failure (including the latest offering).

That's not to say that PvP is not an important part of an MMOG because it is. PvP is just as important and valid as any other facet of game play be it craftin, PvE, PvM, trading, whatever. But it is NOT more important such that it should be forced onto people who do not wish to play it.

As for Trammel itself, that is not a perfect answer either. I have always held the opinion that Trammel was implemented BACKWARDS. They should have made the new facet Fel, not the old one. Having done it the way it was done caused MANY player run establishments from taverns to towns to be abandoned either by their owners, their participants, or both and the land rush that was Trammel did not lend well to the recreation of these towns, so the implementation with NO concession to player run establishments caused a LOT of communities to be lost.

SHards based on ruleset would have been acceptible as well, but we have what we have now and it's about 10 years too late to do anything about it, so that's basically "water under the bridge" so to speak, however, without Trammel, it is doubtful that UO would have survived.

For myself, as much as I enjoy the Ultima setting, I wouldn't have enjoyed it for much longer under the old rulesets. Trammel was a GOOD thing. Not that I have anything specific against PvP, I just want to retain the REAL choice on my involvement in it (and no "stay in town" was NEVER a REAL choice).

 

[Chiera]

no, I don't think I would still play if it were only Fel ruleset. As much as I like Fel, I lived there for a very long time and still have a house there which I would never trade, I also enjoy the rather relaxed life in Tram. So I have chars on both facets and very much like the option to choose.

 

[Surgeries]

Definitely Not.

My wife and I were ready to quit completely at the end of 1999. Then came Trammel, which although extremely poorly done, a lie, and really just a knee-jerk reaction to EQ subscription hemorrhaging, really did keep us as customers.

PvP is very exciting and fun, as a part of UO. I have never been drawn solely to PvP, and will admit openly that non-consensual PvP (blah blah Red Moongate IS your Consent blah blah what-the-heck-ever Blah Blah) is definitely not something I enjoy, at all.

If that was all that was left, we would most assuredly just find something else to do.

 

[Barry Gibb]

I probably would not play an all PvP ruleset. I like having the choice to be involved in it or not. I like not having to look over my shoulder all the time when I want to do something in the game, be it mining, hunting, wandering around, or whatever else. I play in Felucca and on Siege when I want and I know what I am opening myself up to when i do. I don't mind getting killed by other players, but frankly I don't like dealing with the jerks that tarnish the Felucca PvP image. My guild moved to Trammel when it opened because we wanted that choice (and because we could upgrade to a tower for our house).

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[archite666]

I play siege, which IS ALL FEL, so yeah I would.

 

[Draxous]

There would be death squads everywhere. The joy of doing the things they love would be replaced with having to PvP for everything.

The Harder you have to work for something the sweeter it is when acheived.... Competition is what makes the game fun. If you simply clicked a button and received whatever you want in game I doubt any of us would be playing anymore. A thinking player as an opponent can NEVER be equaled by a machine... I doubt simply going out to tame Cusidhe's till you get a good one gets your heart racing like seeing a red charging your group of spawners on the island in Despise.....

An NPC can attack you, kill you, loot your corpse and even trash talk you (lady mel trash talks!)

The thing that after 11+ years of UO that I cannot wrap my mind around is that there is a group of players in UO who only have a problem with this scenario if it's another player doing it to them and not a mindless NPC.

Of course, the mindless NPCs are no where near the challenge level of another human and the only thing I can come up with (the only difference) is that the trammies really can't stand playing videogames at a more challenging level.

I'd wager these are the same people who purchase a console game in the store and play it on "Easy" even if they can handle medium. I suppose they know full-well they can't do it on hard so why not cry about it.

Anything else is just bull****.

 

[Kaleb]

What EA did wrong when introducing Trammel was that they put it on already existing servers. What they should've done instead was to open new servers with Trammel in them and then giving free character transfers from the old servers to the new servers.

Yes

I never thought tram was a bad thing just how the put it into the game.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

to make it work realistically it would be fel ruleset everywhere,
minus towns, 20% of the dungeons, 80% of all roads. But I would be down either way.

 

[Draxous]

It would be a no for me...

While i do not mind Feucca at all and love to listen to the old stories of how things where then i do not think i would enjoy playing.

PvP is just to stressfull for me, too fast paced... i admire the hardcore players and like to watch but its just not my playstyle

ZOMG!!

You made my day. First time in forever that I've read an honest answer.

I dub thee the queen of trammel!

 

[Storm]

Hmm I think a better question would be Would you play if it was all trammel ruleset! and did away with pvp

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

ZOMG!!

You made my day. First time in forever that I've read an honest answer.

I dub thee the queen of trammel!

Avenhar is nothing if not honest, and she is one of the finest UO personalities I have ever encountered. There is absolutely nothing wrong with people that prefer Trammel. The point of this thread was not to call anyone out, or to belittle anyone.

Her answer was honest and to the point. Why more people can't be as honest, I have no idea.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Hmm I think a better question would be Would you play if it was all trammel ruleset! and did away with pvp

I think that there are some of us, like myself, that would play it regardless of which ruleset there was...because we are addicts.

 

[Connor_Graham]

An NPC can attack you, kill you, loot your corpse and even trash talk you (lady mel trash talks!)

Lady Mel doesn't bring your mother or sister into the trash talking, nor uses racial slurs, nor swears like a drunken sailor, yet you're going to use her as an example?

Nice try, but no cigar for you.

Of course, the mindless NPCs are no where near the challenge level of another human and the only thing I can come up with (the only difference) is that the trammies really can't stand playing videogames at a more challenging level.

Or they just prefer to play the game to relax instead of the so called "rush" of participating in PvP. Different strokes for different folks pretty much sums it up, without having to resort to thinly veiled insults to do it. You might try that some time. It works great.

Anything else is just bull****.

Just like your incorrect assumptions.......

 

[Lady Aalia]

ZOMG!!

You made my day. First time in forever that I've read an honest answer.

I dub thee the queen of trammel!

*wears her crown proudly*

I thank thee, hehe

 

[Tina Small]

An NPC can attack you, kill you, loot your corpse and even trash talk you (lady mel trash talks!)

The thing that after 11+ years of UO that I cannot wrap my mind around is that there is a group of players in UO who only have a problem with this scenario if it's another player doing it to them and not a mindless NPC.

Of course, the mindless NPCs are no where near the challenge level of another human and the only thing I can come up with (the only difference) is that the trammies really can't stand playing videogames at a more challenging level.

I'd wager these are the same people who purchase a console game in the story and play it on "Easy."

Anything else is just bull****.

It may just come down to some people being more interested in head-to-head competition than others are. I've done a little bit of PvP and yes, it's a bit of a rush to clobber someone else's character. But getting that rush just isn't so compelling to me that I want to spend the majority of my time playing that way.

Another reason I don't really enjoy PvP is that I just don't savor the thought that if I win a competition, the potential exists that my victory caused some type of distress for someone else. I definitely lean more towards enjoying activities that are what you might call a "win-win" for everyone. I'm usually just not into situations where there has to be a distinct real-person winner and a distinct real-person loser, even if somehow I can arrange things so I'm the winner most of the time. Heck if I know why my brain/heart work that way, but they do. (It may be why I can't get into watching high physical contact sports like football and hockey.) And I'm also not saying that there don't exist some people that I would love to, just once, bash into oblivion in UO. I'm not a complete pacifist! I'm also not trying to denigrate people that love head-to-head competition. I think life (and things like UO) would be pretty dull if we all thought and felt the same way about things.

Perhaps you should just accept the fact that some people don't relish head to head competition for reasons other than that they might lose the competition some of the time.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I think a better question would be Would you play if it was all trammel ruleset! and did away with pvp

I wouldn't want this either. PvP as I said has a legitimate function in the game and adds a factor of depth to the game. However, it should always be the player's choice on if.when they wish to be involved and that choice should NEVER drastically limit the content of the game they can access based on that choice.

In clarification of the above, I do not think not allowing Red characters out of Fel is the same type of limitation because an account can have up to 6 more characters on the same shard that do not have to be red and thus subject to that rule, plus to fall under that rule requires a specific behaviour pattern to be followed.

Secondly, where I say people shouldn't be limited based on their choice is that people shouldn't be limited to a small portion of the game (towns) just to not be involved in PvP (which in itself has been untrue due to suicide bank thieves back pre-Trammel). A player should have the ability to run a dungeon for the purposes of running that dungeon for the dungeon's sake, not "run the dungeon + get ganked at a moments notice in the process".

Thirdly, the portion in 'Secondly...' does not apply to Fel dungeons that have had Champ Spawns added for the purpose of creating a PvP-based challenge. Trammel rulesets have their own champ spawns with rewards, Fel rulesets have theirs.

I hope that all made sense because the idea can get a little complicated given the basics of the original statement and how it is affected by the various systems that have been put into place since.

Keep PvP, but keep it as a player's choice. That's the only system that really works.

 

[D'Amavir]

An NPC can attack you, kill you, loot your corpse and even trash talk you (lady mel trash talks!)

Never had an npc **** on my corpse, **** my corpse or call me a *censored*. Maybe you play with different npc's than me. Where are those types so I can check them out?

The thing that after 11+ years of UO that I cannot wrap my mind around is that there is a group of players in UO who only have a problem with this scenario if it's another player doing it to them and not a mindless NPC.

You fail to pay attention to the many people that complain not about the dying part, but about the disrespect part, the cheating part and the gear advantage part.

Of course, the mindless NPCs are no where near the challenge level of another human and the only thing I can come up with (the only difference) is that the trammies really can't stand playing videogames at a more challenging level.

Let me guess, you are a faction pvp'er than runs around with store bought armor and weapons and non magical jewelry. Right? Obviously you are because otherwise that would mean you just couldn't stand playing this video game at a more challenging level.

I'd wager these are the same people who purchase a console game in the store and play it on "Easy" even if they can handle medium. I suppose they know full-well they can't do it on hard so why not cry about it.

Anything else is just bull****.

Again, what gear do you pvp in? Stuff you looted off regular orcs or bought off of npc town vendors or higher end gear? Be honest now. You want a challenge so I assume, once again, that you use the former option and don't play on 'easy level' by gearing up to pvp. Right? Come on, right? Really, right?

 

[Tjalle]

<------ *points at location*

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Perhaps you should just accept the fact that some people don't relish head to head competition for reasons other than that they might lose the competition some of the time.

Oh, I accept that fact, never said I didn't. Part of the reason I made this poll was because I have a true desire to understand why some people dislike PvP so much.

I appreciate your, and everyone else's, answers so far. Good stuff! Let's just try to keep it from becoming insulting (too late for some here already I know).

 

[Thrakkar]

The short answer: No, i wouldn't.

The long answer: Yes, i would, if they get rid of insurance, artifacts, item properties, powder of fortification, etc...

 

[Draxous]

An NPC can attack you, kill you, loot your corpse and even trash talk you (lady mel trash talks!)

The thing that after 11+ years of UO that I cannot wrap my mind around is that there is a group of players in UO who only have a problem with this scenario if it's another player doing it to them and not a mindless NPC.

Of course, the mindless NPCs are no where near the challenge level of another human and the only thing I can come up with (the only difference) is that the trammies really can't stand playing videogames at a more challenging level.

I'd wager these are the same people who purchase a console game in the story and play it on "Easy."

Anything else is just bull****.

It may just come down to some people being more interested in head-to-head competition than others are. I've done a little bit of PvP and yes, it's a bit of a rush to clobber someone else's character. But getting that rush just isn't so compelling to me that I want to spend the majority of my time playing that way.

Another reason I don't really enjoy PvP is that I just don't savor the thought that if I win a competition, the potential exists that my victory caused some type of distress for someone else. I definitely lean more towards enjoying activities that are what you might call a "win-win" for everyone. I'm usually just not into situations where there has to be a distinct real-person winner and a distinct real-person loser, even if somehow I can arrange things so I'm the winner most of the time. Heck if I know why my brain/heart work that way, but they do. (It may be why I can't get into watching high physical contact sports like football and hockey.) And I'm also not saying that there don't exist some people that I would love to, just once, bash into oblivion in UO. I'm not a complete pacifist! I'm also not trying to denigrate people that love head-to-head competition. I think life (and things like UO) would be pretty dull if we all thought and felt the same way about things.

Perhaps you should just accept the fact that some people don't relish head to head competition for reasons other than that they might lose the competition some of the time.

But this is yet another excuse!

Even outside of PvP... you play in an MMO where you are in competition with and against everyone you share this game with.

Do you have every house plot in Luna? Do you have every rare/collectable in this game? Do you have the fanciest outfits? Do you have a billion gold coins? Do you have the biggest and most successful guild?

You see... you already subject yourself to scenarios where there is a distinct real person - winner and loser.

Everything you describe about PvP is just smoke and mirrors to mask the real problem.

Try taking this poster for example (Avenhar) who is completely honest about the situation the reason why she plays trammel.

It would be a no for me...

While i do not mind Feucca at all and love to listen to the old stories of how things where then i do not think i would enjoy playing.

PvP is just to stressfull for me, too fast paced... i admire the hardcore players and like to watch but its just not my playstyle

ZOMG!!

You made my day. First time in forever that I've read an honest answer.

I dub thee the queen of trammel!

Avenhar is nothing if not honest, and she is one of the finest UO personalities I have ever encountered. There is absolutely nothing wrong with people that prefer Trammel. The point of this thread was not to call anyone out, or to belittle anyone.

Her answer was honest and to the point. Why more people can't be as honest, I have no idea.

We all want to feel like winners in a videogame we pay for...

There are those of us who can accept the fact that we can't always be winners and there are those of us who refuse to accept that fact and would rather take the ball so nobody can play the game.

Trammel players are there because they enjoy playing UO at a lower difficulty level or they can't stand that they are not the best (poor sports.)

Whichever it is... it is either one or the other.

Judging from the responses I've gotten already... you can easily see who is who: isn't that right D'Amavir?

 

[D'Amavir]

Judging from the responses I've gotten already... you can easily see who is who: isn't that right D'Amavir?

Nope. You never told me what gear you use. Do you use high end gear because to be the best and can't stand it when you aren't (poor sport)? I applaud the fact that you use store bought gear and don't resort to overpowering high end gear so that you can play the game at a more difficult level. If that is true, and we all know its not, then you are one of very very few.

Are there people that play in Trammel because they want easier play? Sure. Are there pvp'ers that spend tons of gold/money on high end gear because they want easier play? Sure. Does either of those mean that ALL Trammel plays are that way or that ALL Fel players are that way? Nope. Generalizations are a flawed way to define things in cases like this. Rise about that mentality if you can and see that some people (myself included along with many others) choose to avoid pvp because they aren't happy at all with the way EA has made pvp function in today's UO.

The main downfall in this game, and all mmorpg's has always been the 'us vs them' mentality that you, along with others on both sides, always show when topics like this come up. Do better and try to see other people's opinions as more than just 'whining' or fear or cowardice.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Trammel players are there because they enjoy playing UO at a lower difficulty level or they can't stand that they are not the best (poor sports.)

Whichever it is... it is either one or the other.

I completely disagree with you here. UO was NEVER set up to be a PvP only game. Otherwise, it would an FPS.

UO has many aspects to it besides PvP...

Crafting for example. The crafting system built into UO is awesome! (or at least it was) Are you saying that the player that 120's blacksmithing is not a "winner"? Take a look at that 'l337' PvP suit you have...did you find that on the ground? Did your character start the game with it? Odds are really high you bought it from vendors. Guess where your gold went...

Who won in that scenario?

Avenhar, for example, runs a successful rune library. She has a very impressive collection of rare items in the game.

It's not, and has never been, only about who can kill who. UO is a world, we all play a part in it.

And just because somebody values things differently in the game than you do, does not make them a loser and you a winner...even if you are able to kill that person.

Is that all you measure success by in real life? Who can kill the most people?

Probably not.

 

[D'Amavir]

Is that all you measure success by in real life? Who can kill the most people?

Probably not.

I don't know about in UO, but that's definitely how I judge success in real life.

 

[Tina Small]

But this is yet another excuse!

Even outside of PvP... you play in an MMO where you are in competition with and against everyone you share this game with.

Do you have every house plot in Luna? Do you have every rare/collectable in this game? Do you have the fanciest outfits? Do you have a billion gold coins? Do you have the biggest and most successful guild?

You see... you already subject yourself to scenarios where there is a distinct real person - winner and loser.

Everything you describe about PvP is just smoke and mirrors to mask the real problem.

Try taking this poster for example (Avenhar) who is completely honest about the situation the reason why she plays trammel.



We all want to feel like winners in a videogame we pay for...

There are those of us who can accept the fact that we can't always be winners and there are those of us who refuse to accept that fact and would rather take the ball so nobody can play the game.

Trammel players are there because they enjoy playing UO at a lower difficulty level or they can't stand that they are not the best (poor sports.)

Whichever it is... it is either one or the other.

Judging from the responses I've gotten already... you can easily see who is who: isn't that right D'Amavir?

Whoa!!!!!!! Wait just a minute!!! I couldn't give a damn about owning a house in Luna or owning rares and other collectibles! Fancy outfits.....hahahahaha. Owning a billion gold. I'm dying laughing here at the thought that will ever happen to me. You have grossly misjudged me, sir.

 

[Draxous]

Trammel players are there because they enjoy playing UO at a lower difficulty level or they can't stand that they are not the best (poor sports.)

Whichever it is... it is either one or the other.

I completely disagree with you here. UO was NEVER set up to be a PvP only game. Otherwise, it would an FPS.

UO has many aspects to it besides PvP...

Crafting for example. The crafting system built into UO is awesome! (or at least it was) Are saying that the player that 120's blacksmithing is not a "winner"? Take a look at that 'l337' PvP suit you have...did you find that on the ground? Did your character start the game with it? Odds are really high you bought it from vendors. Guess where your gold went...

Who won in that scenario?

Avenhar, for example, runs a successful rune library. She has a very impressive collection of rare items in the game.

It's not, and has never been, only about who can kill who. UO is a world, we all play a part in it.

And just because somebody values things differently in the game than you do, does not make them a loser and you a winner...even if you are able to kill that person.

Is that all you measure success by in real life? Who can kill the most people?

Probably not.

You are seeming more and more to be the type of poster who just likes to argue for the sake of argument.

I'm not making the case that this is a pvp only game. What I was describing was that you (as a player) are in competition with those who also play this game with you... in many different ways (aspects.) But the aspect which we are talking about in this thread is Trammel and Felucca.

The only difference between Trammel and Felucca is PvP. If someone prefers to play Trammel rather than Felucca it is because of only 2 reasons (one, the other or both.)

1. You enjoy playing Ultima Online at a lower level of difficulty.

2. You cannot accept or come to terms with where you rank amongst the other players on your shard in PvP.

Players like Avenhar, clearly accept that they do not rank high enough on the spectrum to enjoy the activity so they prefer to abstain from it. Players like D'Amavir cannot accept that they do not rank high enough on the spectrum so they make excuses or try to form ad hominem arguments to justify their poor sportsmanship.

That is it.

The vast majority of us have come to terms with the fact that we will never own a house right outside of the gate in East Luna. We have come to terms with the fact that we will never earn a billion gold coins. We have come to terms with the fact that there will be people who have and can do things that we simply cannot...

But PvP? Which is just another aspect of the same game... is some how different?

No no no... it is the same. The only difference is the way an individual chooses to view it.

Which is exactly... what I'm saying.

 

[Draxous]

Whoa!!!!!!! Wait just a minute!!! I couldn't give a damn about owning a house in Luna or owning rares and other collectibles! Fancy outfits.....hahahahaha. Owning a billion gold. I'm dying laughing here at the thought that will ever happen to me.

Exactly!!!

You have grossly misjudged me, sir.

Actually, quite the opposite! I've hit the nail on the head.

You are in a head to head competition with other players regarding ALL of those things that you "could care less about" (laughing at the notion that those things would ever happen to you.)

The difference is-is that in PvP... you do care (or should I say... seem to, judging by your post.)

Now the only question left is... have you come to terms with "your place" in PvP as you have with everything else I described?

You're A-O-K with not being the richest, the best dressed, or the one with the best house... but are you A-O-K with not being the best PvPer or *gasp* being a punching bag to the vast majority of PvPers?

Avenhar has... have you?

 

[Ailish]

I answered yes because, simply put, I already do. There are a small handful of things I do outside of Fel, and those are only because I don't have the option to do them IN Fel, usually. I tame Cu's, go to Doom, go to Bedlam, Travesty and Dreadhorn in Tram because I have no choice. I vend in Luna because on such a small shard (Napa) I would not sell stuff any other way.

The only thing I choose to do in Tram that I also have the option to do in Fel is Mel's with less than 4 people, because I hate wading through twice the crap. That is more a commentary on the crappy loot coming off of Mel than anything else. I still do Paroxy in Fel. I would do the rest, including taming Cu's and Doom, in Fel if I could. In fact, I think its BS that certain tamables only spawn in Tram ruleset. If your tamer happens to be red, you have to have someone else tame you pets.

I have LJ on my swords PvPer ... when she goes red, I go chop wood. I have yet to loose any of my goods. I have a friend who has mining on his (red) macer ... he has yet to loose any of his good, either.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

You are seeming more and more to be the type of poster who just likes to argue for the sake of argument.

No, not really, but I have a mind, and opinions of my own, and I certainly don't expressing them...that's what we come here for, right?

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

The only difference between Trammel and Felucca is PvP. If someone prefers to play Trammel rather than Felucca it is because of only 2 reasons (one, the other or both.)

1. You enjoy playing Ultima Online at a lower level of difficulty.

Funny, the one character I constantly play in Fel with is my miner... why? Because double resources by definition is a "lower level of difficulty" and he doesn;t even worry about PvP due to his choice in where he mines and use of mining tools to process better veins in complete safety. Thus the argument of Fel = "hard mode" = false.


2. You cannot accept or come to terms with where you rank amongst the other players on your shard in PvP.

How about this one... I DON'T CARE what my "rank" in PvP is. If I did, I would be PvPing (probably in Factions).

 

[Petra Fyde]

UO is many things, to many people. Some of the posters here have a distinct lack of understanding of some of the others.

Part of this I think, is a gender thing. BlackRain, you are wrong in assuming everyone wants to win. For example: I have a shop on Siege, do I have it to make lots of gold? No, I could make more gold if I trained a pvm character. I have the shop because I like to make things, and because I like to help people. I provide the necessities of UO life, not the luxuries.
I don't like to pvp, one I don't have the aggressive instinct or reaction speed, and two I can't bring myself to deliberately cause another player distress. I'm a helper, a nurturer, not a fighter. Allow for different personalities in your analysis. EA does.

I play Siege, I sometimes die. Do I fight when I'm attacked? No I either run away or just stand and wait for the inevitable.

 

[Lady Aalia]

heh... heated discussion

I would like to add a few things though.

Pvp hasnever been for me allways because of the same reason mentioned above.
Without sounding like a total fool i am just not "relaxed" enough about pvp to be able to handle all the comands and buttons needed to be able to compeed.

I did try to participate in the Faction Event last week ...as bystander, i knew i was going to be toast, but i was prepeared with cheap gear and not having to worry about losing anything. I also didnt expect any rewards out of it and thus was not dissapointed like others where in the end.

UO for me is about the comunity, my friends...

I do not think i need to be ashamed for not beeing any good at pvp *points at her new crown*.

What it boils down to for all sides is tolerance.
Tolerate others playstyles and likes and dislikes and knowing its ok not to win UO

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

UO is many things, to many people. Some of the posters here have a distinct lack of understanding of some of the others.

That's one of the main reasons I started this thread.


I wouldn't say it's a gender thing though. I PvP sometimes, used to PvP a lot, and I have a couple of friends that are also female that I know in real life that play UO, and they PvP too.

One of the greatest pleasures I get from UO is helping my guild. In many PvM battles, I just stand at the back and heal and cure instead of attacking. My guildies, some of them anyway, need the combat skill gains, whereas I don't. I rarely ever loot anything that I keep anymore...including arties. I have pretty much all I need in UO, and it makes me happy to help out those that are close to me.

I don't consider that competitive. There certainly is no "best" title to see who can give all their stuff away the fastest

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Yes, but can you "come to terms" with "your place" in PvM?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

...

Yes, but can you "come to terms" with "your place" in PvM?

My "place" is wherever I am needed most.

I really don't care for that term much though...it makes me think of sexist pigs that say my "place" is in the kitchen