O
Old Man of UO
Guest
Heh... I was with you until you got to this part. Siege is the "hard core" rule set, but you want it easier. Heh
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Would You Still Play UO if it were All Fel Rules?
- Thread starter Morgana LeFay (PoV)
- Start date
- Watchers 7
That's actually pretty common around here. We get a lot of posts, in the general interest forum U-Hall, of people asking for things to be easier on a particular shard (Siege).
-Galen's player
Black Rain,
I agree with your Feluccan Ideology post for the most part concerning Siege, but I'm not sure if increasing the quality loot drops and turning on all the artifacts is going to help Crafters any.
Wouldn't that just be another "kick in the shorts" to crafters like the Faction Arties were by leaving even less items for the Crafter to Craft and actually be needed for something more then burning Runics, enhancing loot, and making Potions?
I do think it would help Siege out to do the things you listed, I just don't understand how it would help the Crafter.
My personal belief is that when AoS came, The Crafter should have been empowered to Craft Items with artifact type properties that they chose to add to each armor piece and weapon via ingredients,resources and spells. That would have ensured Crafting was the strong Foundation to build the Game around and not dice roll hammers and lucky or not so lucky loot drops.
Instead of farming for loot drops and BoDs to get a hammer that has to get a lucky dice roll to maybe craft something use able, we would have people farming for ingredients, resources, spells to sell and use to make items everyone would buy.
Without insurance like Siege there would always be a need for the items that were crafted and the farmers to provide the stuff to make everything with.
Like I said above, I think what you said about loot drops and turning on artifacts would help Siege and our style play, I just don't understand how it would help our crafters prosper. I don't think our Siege Crafters would be hurt much more then they already are, and It would definitely help to get people out Farming and less worried about what they might lose.
The Devs came to a Big "Y" in the road at AoS, one lead to Crafters and the other looked similar to other Games. The Crafter road would have been a foundation to build on, this road is a leaning Tower always piling more and more on top all the time kicking the hell out of the Guy on the Bottom.
I agree with your Feluccan Ideology post for the most part concerning Siege, but I'm not sure if increasing the quality loot drops and turning on all the artifacts is going to help Crafters any.
Wouldn't that just be another "kick in the shorts" to crafters like the Faction Arties were by leaving even less items for the Crafter to Craft and actually be needed for something more then burning Runics, enhancing loot, and making Potions?
I do think it would help Siege out to do the things you listed, I just don't understand how it would help the Crafter.
My personal belief is that when AoS came, The Crafter should have been empowered to Craft Items with artifact type properties that they chose to add to each armor piece and weapon via ingredients,resources and spells. That would have ensured Crafting was the strong Foundation to build the Game around and not dice roll hammers and lucky or not so lucky loot drops.
Instead of farming for loot drops and BoDs to get a hammer that has to get a lucky dice roll to maybe craft something use able, we would have people farming for ingredients, resources, spells to sell and use to make items everyone would buy.
Without insurance like Siege there would always be a need for the items that were crafted and the farmers to provide the stuff to make everything with.
Like I said above, I think what you said about loot drops and turning on artifacts would help Siege and our style play, I just don't understand how it would help our crafters prosper. I don't think our Siege Crafters would be hurt much more then they already are, and It would definitely help to get people out Farming and less worried about what they might lose.
The Devs came to a Big "Y" in the road at AoS, one lead to Crafters and the other looked similar to other Games. The Crafter road would have been a foundation to build on, this road is a leaning Tower always piling more and more on top all the time kicking the hell out of the Guy on the Bottom.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
I didn't quote all of what you posted, but I understand what you are saying.
The problem is, the drop rates are what they are. The "grind" aspect of UO is firmly in place.
Allow me to restate my sentence that you called "hogwash" (what is this 1908?)
UO, in its current state, is too item based for it to revert back to an all Fel ruleset.
With item insurance, its not like you get anything for PvPing besides the experience of it. And with item insurances bugs, you run the risk of losing things. Things that took you a looooooooong time to get, or cost you a small fortune to buy. And for what? The off chance that someone's item insurance may fail? Not worth it.
If you got rid of item insurance, no one would wear their best gear anymore.
Not that I am totally against that, but the fact remains, w/o item insurance, most people wouldn't use their top end stuff in PvP.
When AoS came out, it tied UO to a model that requires additional items to be introduced regularly, and each round of new items must be better than the ones before them. Otherwise, like you said, the so-called "trammies" will get bored.
If you think they will get bored not getting newer fancier items, imagine how bored they would be if every time they got a new item, some PK took it away from them. People that do not wish to PvP would simply not see grinding for the item as worth the risk.
As long as UO remains tied to this model, I don't think is even realistic to consider an all Fel ruleset on the prodo shards. If the devs did make it all Fel, I would stay...because I love UO...but I just don't see that ever happening.
I want it easier? Why do you have this gross misconception?
How would that equate to being easier?
You think I find difficulty in running good gear? I already run production shard level gear. I am one of the select few on Siege who have a non-cursed orny. My whole guild runs awesome gear on Siege. My guild has the best PvPers and is the wealthiest on Siege. There is a huge divide between us (the haves) and the rest of the shard (the have-nots.)
I currently fight people in crappy no-property GM armor all the time. Do you really think Siege will be easier if my opponents have better gear!?!?!?!
No, no, no, no.... no.
Infact, this will make the shard even harder because the people I fight will be equipped better. They will pose a bigger threat and be more effective. They will find that the people they fight are equipped better and the bar will be raised for everyone. Casual gamers will be more apt to go out and play rather than grind grind grind when they are on... it's Win-Win.
It'll definately... NOT be easier.
D
D'Amavir
Guest
You are right. The fact that the devs realize that a Fel only style of play would cost them way too many subscribers is what stops it from happening. The item oriented aspect is just the reason why people like me, and many others, don't enjoy UO pvp anymore. Couldn't agree with you more there.
Wrong. See below.
Right. The game needed item insurance BECAUSE of the fact that the devs made it so item based. Which, in turn, made anti item based players take part less and less in pvp.
I never had to kill Mel even once in 98 to get a crimson cincture. Not once. Hmmm.
For you maybe. To me, the grind aspect of the game sucks. It sucked in SB. It sucked in WoW and it sucked in SWG. Its just not fun to me. If it is for you, more power to you.
Making it easier to get items in an item based game, for people that don't enjoy item based games, doesn't really help. Less item based pvp, that would help. You seem to miss that part over and over.
Give me 10000000000 val runic hammers and guess what? I will still not enjoy having to piece together 'the perfect suit' and spend even two minutes calculating each and ever stat that can possibly exist in order to compete with all the people that DO enjoy doing so. Its not fun. I don't like it. Its not fun. I don't do it. Not sure why you can't grasp that.
Sure. Some people would. Definitely. Many more would be the same as they are now though. Bored by the math and moving on to a game with less grinding.
They added a bunch of nasty items to factions. Isn't it fixed now? Doesn't faction gameplay pretty much dominate the activity on every shard now?
You know what allowed people to be able to just suit up and play? AR as opposed to several resists. Vanq instead of +abc, -pdg and +rem that you have now. Math is fun for you. Not me. Especially not in a game.
I do all of that in Trammel. With much less griefing. Much much less. Why do I need Fel for what I already do in Trammel?
You are right. But, that doesn't mean that item acquisition is fun. Its not.
You mean one is a sandbox and one is a mostly empty ghetto? Gotcha.
This coming from the person trying to go back to Pre Trammel days? Very nice. And yes, I did get over it. I did so by not taking part in PVP. Worked for me.
D
D'Amavir
Guest
And there you have it. The reason why you enjoy the current pvp system and your 'enemies' do not. Of course if you have the best gear and the guild you are in has the best gear and most of the people you fight don't, you won't complain. Its all about winning with you. Glad you finally admitted that at least.
Siege will always be the "Hard Shard" because we can and often do lose everything on Death, and you can die everywhere including the Bank.
How can anything ever get easier then having everything insured? We have never asked for Insurance, most of us left with that as a big reason.
D
D'Amavir
Guest
Insurance is just a side effect of the real disease. Item based pvp is the real disease. Without that, insurance would have never even been an issue.
Id agree with that, I think the only Item based PvP should have been Crafted Item based, then it wouldnt need to have been insured, only re-made.
Really, there is no way to satisfy every play group completely with this. PvM has been neglected the longest and it's obvious from the disparity faction items has caused that it needs an immediate look.
I do want to say that I considered crafters in my suggestion, as much as I could.
Realize that one benefit of this will be the large influx of items now needing to be "enhanced."
Setting up guilds that share the spoils of hunting and enhancing may become a new thing... but aside from that:
I also believe to really fix Sieges item market....
Runics should be a lot easier to obtain AND I believe they should come with 10 times the current charges. So a barbed kit would have 150 charges on it... rather than the crappy 15.
I also suggested that peerless bosses drop 10+ of EACH ingredient. As well, all of the named peerless creatures should drop 1 or 2 of an ingredient so as to not make fighting the bosses required.
I also believe that the resources from both lumberjacking and mining should come a lot more frequently (I'm talking the gems like Ecru's, Blue Diamonds and so on.) I also think 1-3 white pearls should be guaranteed in a SOS chest.
I think crafters should be supplying good, usable, desired gear to the shard and I believe the monster hunters should also be doing it... too, not just crafters. Merchants come in all kinds of flavors.
I also believe Treasure Hunters need a better reason to Treasure Hunt. I believe if you put a [cursed] artifact in each of the lvl 6 chests as well as a minor artifact... there would be better reason to T-Hunt. I also think they should reduce the number of items that spawn in a T-Chest and make it a few that spawn with 4 item properties (high intensities) rather than the 50 with 49 that are crappy and maybe 1 that is mediocre.
There is a lot to consider in getting Felucca (Siege) polished. I know for a fact that once it is... The devs can focus on adding new content without having to worry about fixing the shard anymore. Our PvP will be on par with the rest of UO so they won't have to fear balancing it across the board.
Really... it would take 2 weeks of 1 dedicated Dev to implement my suggestions and it would make a HUGE difference to the shard.
One of my 'enemies' is posting in this thread and agreeing with everything that I'm saying. (Shout out to SavageSP!)
And to top that off... why do you twist what I said so that it's ass-backwards? What do you mean I won't complain cause I enjoy running superior gear over those in GM armor? I'm freaking complaining about just that!!!! I'm lobbying to have my enemies equipped in gear on par with what I currently equip. How is that all about winning with me?
...
Yeah, but I think Imbuing will really help crafers out.
The biggest change that will help crafters is making Runics more frequent and with more charges. They will be able to output gear that we all want to use - frequently... not the mountains of garbage we donate to NEW as it is.
That's pretty much my thoughts on crafting as well. That the crafter got the short end of the stick. I think the current developers realize that and want to change crafting to be as prosporous as it once was. They have made some good changes so far to bring runic tools up to par and the redo of Arms Lore was also a step in the right direction (I'd love to have the Siege Bonus on LS, +1 every 12.5 skill instead of every 20.0 skill for those that did not know). I am optimistic about the changes that will come with Imbuing. I can customize my crafted items making them more desireable and functional. Items will also be finite, opening the door for the need for replacement.
Stayin Alive,
BG
D
D'Amavir
Guest
You run around with the best gear. Most of the people you fight run around in much lesser gear. Your words. IF it was all about fun and a challenge, for you, you would run around in lesser gear like your enemies apparently do. But you don't. Sure, you say you want them to have better gear. But you ignore those of us that say that the game being so item based is what makes us not like today's pvp. And you toss out the standard pvp'er comments like 'you don't want a challenge' and 'you can't handle not being the best' anytime one of us says that we just don't have fun in today's pvp because of all the importance of the items and less focus on the fun. To us.One of my 'enemies' is posting in this thread and agreeing with everything that I'm saying. (Shout out to SavageSP!)
And to top that off... why do you twist what I said so that it's ass-backwards? What do you mean I won't complain cause I enjoy running superior gear over those in GM armor? I'm freaking complaining about just that!!!! I'm lobbying to have my enemies equipped in gear on par with what I currently equip. How is that all about winning with me?
...
As for your enemy, I won't even attempt to put words in their mouth, but they did say something like 'I just wish it had gone a different route at AoS and this wouldnt be an issue now, the Crafter has been put in the role of the Repairman, not the Creator.'. Something I agree with. These days, after the advent of the runics, the major boost in item properties and the changes to resists, most crafters (not all, but most) have either left the game or left crafting because they can't compete with those people that grind all day for items and/or runics. The best craftsmen ever in UO were those that went around in 97-99 selling their GM quality items to people and doing repairs at the NPC towns. Those days are gone. Long gone. Why? Because most of them don't have fun anymore. Is it because they lost at pvp? Of course not. Its because they just don't want to have to deal with the grinding for runics and the math nonsense needed to put together a suit other people will actually want to buy.
You must have never fought me.
I run worse than crappy no-property GM (pre-Arms Lore change) spined armor. No one ever takes it if I die, so I always get it back. No I will not tell you who I am on Siege.
Stayin Alive,
BG
I don't think they need to change the frequency of Barbed Runics (there are 18 larges that give them). They do need to tweak blacksmithing BODs a bit, but nothing drastic (just dropping out the colored helmet or shield deeds (that have no larges) would increase the freuency of the higher end runics. They also need to make metal armor more appealing to use over leather. As for increasing the number of charges, though that would be nice, I would not want that at all. I am proud of every runic kit I earn. They have a limited number of uses, so I have to use it wisely. They should not be burned through to mass produce items.
Stayin Alive,
BG
Dude, stop being so freaking butt-sore over the whole item properties thing. AoS was what? More than SIX freaking YEARS ago?You run around with the best gear. Most of the people you fight run around in much lesser gear. Your words. IF it was all about fun and a challenge, for you, you would run around in lesser gear like your enemies apparently do. But you don't. Sure, you say you want them to have better gear. But you ignore those of us that say that the game being so item based is what makes us not like today's pvp. And you toss out the standard pvp'er comments like 'you don't want a challenge' and 'you can't handle not being the best' anytime one of us says that we just don't have fun in today's pvp because of all the importance of the items and less focus on the fun. To us.One of my 'enemies' is posting in this thread and agreeing with everything that I'm saying. (Shout out to SavageSP!)
And to top that off... why do you twist what I said so that it's ass-backwards? What do you mean I won't complain cause I enjoy running superior gear over those in GM armor? I'm freaking complaining about just that!!!! I'm lobbying to have my enemies equipped in gear on par with what I currently equip. How is that all about winning with me?
...
As for your enemy, I won't even attempt to put words in their mouth, but they did say something like 'I just wish it had gone a different route at AoS and this wouldnt be an issue now, the Crafter has been put in the role of the Repairman, not the Creator.'. Something I agree with. These days, after the advent of the runics, the major boost in item properties and the changes to resists, most crafters (not all, but most) have either left the game or left crafting because they can't compete with those people that grind all day for items and/or runics. The best craftsmen ever in UO were those that went around in 97-99 selling their GM quality items to people and doing repairs at the NPC towns. Those days are gone. Long gone. Why? Because most of them don't have fun anymore. Is it because they lost at pvp? Of course not. Its because they just don't want to have to deal with the grinding for runics and the math nonsense needed to put together a suit other people will actually want to buy.
G-E-T-O-V-E-R-I-T-!-!-!
Ornaments of the Magician are here to stay. Runebeetle Carapaces are here to stay. All you do is pancake and moan about a 6 YEAR OLD problem without coming up with a single-freaking-solution to the damn problem at hand.
You are just upset over the way this game has evolved... we all get it. Item properties have ALWAYS been a part of UO (Indestructable of Invuln? Supremely Accurate Vanquishing? Helllooooooo) It's just that they have become much more in number and much more complex. You couldn't keep up... great, no-one but you cares about how you can't keep up.
Go troll the "Do you want a classic shard thread" because I'm sick of you trying to sabbotage a great discussion about helping better PRESENT DAY Ultima Online.
Like I said at the begining of this thread. It is obvious you are a poor sport and just want to take the ball and go home so no one can play because you don't get your way.
Well Grow up.
I think what Black Rain is saying(he will correct me if im wrong) is that with the current set of rules and items we have to work with on a Fel Ruleset Shard like Siege.
The easiest way to fix things would be to increase in every way, the way we come about High Quality Items to be used in PvP and PvM, so that everyone could wear at least decent Gear and not be so worried about losing what little they had, some of which no longer spawns.
That would bring out the Farmer and PvPer alike, and with added Runics and Enhancable Loot, it would help beef up the Crafter that has been kicked so many times.
Like I said before, I wish it had gone another way at AoS, but It didnt, and with the current system of artifacts the way it is, maybe this would be better then nothing. I just hope they focus on Crafters in the future with any new changes and expansions.
The easiest way to fix things would be to increase in every way, the way we come about High Quality Items to be used in PvP and PvM, so that everyone could wear at least decent Gear and not be so worried about losing what little they had, some of which no longer spawns.
That would bring out the Farmer and PvPer alike, and with added Runics and Enhancable Loot, it would help beef up the Crafter that has been kicked so many times.
Like I said before, I wish it had gone another way at AoS, but It didnt, and with the current system of artifacts the way it is, maybe this would be better then nothing. I just hope they focus on Crafters in the future with any new changes and expansions.
If a crafter could customize what they made with each charge (down to what property and what intensitity went where... which would be freaking awesome) then I would say leave them be.
With the RNG tho?!?!? I strongly believe it needs to be more frequent (ever try getting a heartwood fletching kit or saw?) and with 10x's more charges (considering how much random crap we already get with the few charges we have.)
D
D'Amavir
Guest
Fixed it for ya.
Exactly. I can't keep up with the other pvp'ers so I make sure I run in a guild that has all the best items and I fight people that have mostly lesser items. You got me. Sorry for that.
Getting rid of Trammel for an all Fel ruleset is a great discussion but going back to an age of skill based combat instead of item based combat is not? Sorry, hate to break it to ya, but a lot of people said they would leave if Trammel went away BECAUSE they don't like item based pvp as much as you do.
What ball did I take? The original poster asked who would leave and who would stay if UO went to an all Fel ruleset and wanted a discussion about why. And brainiacs like you popped up as always anytime someone said they don't have fun in today's item based pvp world of UO with the standard Fel pvp'er nonsense that drives as many people away from Fel as anything else. People like you are why people like me don't enjoy Fel. People like you with your constant, and constantly infantile, insults to anyone that disagrees with you.
Keep it up though. People like you do more to ensure that Trammel will always exist than just about anything else in the game does. And I, for one, thank you for that.
"Easier" as in "easier than it is currently."
Where on earth did that reference to insurance come from? lol
No one ever said Siege had asked for insurance. Just that you were asking, pretty often actually, for it to be easier on Siege than it was currently. And that makes me chuckle.
-Galen's player
D
D'Amavir
Guest
Saying that there should be more high end items is a valid opinion and one that I support your right to have. I just disagree. As I have said before, you can give me millions of Val Runic Hammers and I still wouldn't have fun grinding away making armor until I get just the right number combination to make it comparable to what those power grinders have. Its just not fun. I would have to spend hours gathering high end leather (dull), hours crafting the same item over and over (dull) and hours sitting with a calculator (not really but you get the point) trying to figure out what piece combination works out best for whatever template I am running (dull).
But, like I said, that's just my opinion. People find fun in different ways. I respect that you think that more items will help. At least you are saying more than your compatriot is in regards to this discussion.
Keep in mind, that he and I have run side by side on these boards a few times when a thread popped up touting the 'all pvp'ers are punks' mindset. He, like me, seemed to understand that just because SOME of them are, that not all of them are. But now, when the discussion is about people that don't enjoy pvp for different reasons, he falls into their same mindset and tosses out insults and claims that just because someone doesn't enjoy what pvp has become its because they are poor sports or can't keep up. Fun is fun. And fun is different for different people.
I tryed a player run shard with the old props and rules, I like the new props and caps, I also like most of the new Skills, I wouldnt give any of that up, I would just like to craft more of it, and have less drop.
Can you imagine Siege with Orc's, Savage's, and Humans all decked out in crafted gear. Bone Legs with DCI like Fey Legs, a Ring Chest for the Orc's that had RBC type MR and LMC or HoL DCI.
The Crafter's, and Vendors would be hoppin, if you didnt make the stuff you could farm the stuff to make it off monsters and resource farming along with gold.
I know it's not a Realistic Vision, but thats where I come from when I post about Crafters and Artifacts. I just try and work with what we have to work with now and try to influence future changes.
Can you imagine Siege with Orc's, Savage's, and Humans all decked out in crafted gear. Bone Legs with DCI like Fey Legs, a Ring Chest for the Orc's that had RBC type MR and LMC or HoL DCI.
The Crafter's, and Vendors would be hoppin, if you didnt make the stuff you could farm the stuff to make it off monsters and resource farming along with gold.
I know it's not a Realistic Vision, but thats where I come from when I post about Crafters and Artifacts. I just try and work with what we have to work with now and try to influence future changes.
I think that is where Imbuing is going to take us. I always hoped they would allow the use of the minging gems, amber, and pearls to customize the item in a limited fashion (like add mage armor at the expense of one propety from the runic). I would like to see some of the minor craftable items (like the twinkling scimitar and silver-etched mace) to have been the pre-Mondain Legacy weapons (kryss, mace, katana, SE ones (that I can't spell)) as well as the new elven ones.
Yes, but with no success (2 ash and some oaks), but I left with GM Fletching and Arms Lore. The system for getting the fletching kits and saws needs to be addressed, not the number of charges per tool. Remember, the runic fletching kits and saws have the older system of intensities, like the hammers and sewing kits had. The non-heartwood runics have less than 100% max intensity, where as all sewing kits and hammers have 100% max intensity. One thing I have alwyas wondered is why there isn't a bloodwood runic fletching kit or saw.
Stayin Alive,
BG
J
Jhym
Guest
I always love the arguments about how it will somehow be so much more fullfilling to have to fight for everything you do all the time, in a game .
Meanwhile, they have Seige to put their money where their mouth is -- and how crowded is Seige? Hmmmmmmm
I wouldn't play the original ruleset for certain; Felucca is there if I feel like fighting or running from dweebs that think being evil is attacking everything that moves (though the past 3 years it's been so quiet most nights that I barely see even one person.)
However, forcing me to run and fight constantly when I am playing this game to relax and beat up some monsters for a few thousand gold means I would shut my 11+ year account down. Been there, done that, hated it, don't want it again, end of story.
Meanwhile, they have Seige to put their money where their mouth is -- and how crowded is Seige? Hmmmmmmm
I wouldn't play the original ruleset for certain; Felucca is there if I feel like fighting or running from dweebs that think being evil is attacking everything that moves (though the past 3 years it's been so quiet most nights that I barely see even one person.)
However, forcing me to run and fight constantly when I am playing this game to relax and beat up some monsters for a few thousand gold means I would shut my 11+ year account down. Been there, done that, hated it, don't want it again, end of story.
Not true. I have posted side by side with you and noticed a difference in your mindset from then and now (in this thread.) It is the main reason why I haven't responded directly to you or engaged you in dialog about this until (now... page 3?!?) I do not want to debate with you over "what could have been..." I want to discuss how we can make here and now... better.
I understand your frustrations, but you play on Production shards where you have to accept the fact that Trammel is there and is there to stay. Felucca and what you fell in love with no longer exists there.
If you played Siege you would be able to relate to the discussion BG, Savage and I are having... but you don't and you can't. The old-world Feluccan concepts you carry are out-dated. You are not alone... there are those on Siege even who wish that everyone would be wearing JUST GM gear and that item properties would vanish... well that's just not going to happen.
As savage said, we like experiencing expansions and new content and this discussion is about bringing Siege in-line with present-day Ultima Online so that the game as a whole can move forward.
Do you understand?
...?
Siege was very crowded until the previous Devs ruined the shard.Meanwhile, they have Seige to put their money where their mouth is -- and how crowded is Seige? Hmmmmmmm
2 years to fix the Personal Bless Deed fiasco.
2 years to fix the armor and unbless the sammy helms/ember legs
It's now been 2 years since that last fix... should be about time to get another one... eh?
We've been working non-stop on recovering from the massive amount of damage that-that developer neglect slammed our shard with. We believe the Developers are going to continue to work with us and we with them to bring this shard back to prosperity... as there are a lot of players who would love to play a shard like Siege if it wasn't broken.
I'm with you 100% on that, you want to be able to actually Craft an Item with the Props you choose. Correct? The problem is unless EA completely re-codes everything, thats never going to happen. The day I hear them announce that they are completely re-vamping the way things are made is the day I throw a Party!
Until then I jump on every craft/Item/Artifact post I see or feel like responding to. But that is the future, trying to get things back to what I feel they should have been.
Unfortunately this is what it is, I like UO, I dont want to leave, and as it is on Siege Perilous, the all Fel Ruleset Shard this Thread most resembles needs some lovin, and the most realistic thing that might actually happen is to beef up what we have, even if it's something I personally didnt like to begin with.
D
D'Amavir
Guest
Me too. You just think that your way of making the here and now better is the only way. I don't. Going to an all Fel ruleset with even more high end items is A way. Its not THE way. As for my mindset, it hasn't changed at all. I still support Fel type PVP. I would still jump up anytime someone tried to get rid of it and I would still jump up anytime someone starts claiming that all pvp'ers are punks. I also jump up anytime someone makes false claims about me like you have. Its not about poor sportsmanship as you claim, for me at least. Its about fun. I support YOUR fun but you don't want to even consider supporting mine.
And Trammel isn't going to vanish either. This discussion was about what ifs. What if it was all Fel rules. Why do you feel that way? Those were the questions this thread asked and I answered. Are item focuses gameplay going to go away? Doubtful. Would pvp get me back if it did? Absolutely.
Apparently I don't. Maybe I misread the title of the Thread and the question asked in it. I thought this was about UO, not just Siege. I know that a few Siege players take any chance they can to turn every thread on this board into a 'Play Siege' thread. Heck, I get it. If my shard only had 5 players I would do the same thing.
I, by reading this thread, was asked some simple questions.
1. Would you still play UO if it were all Fel rules?
2. Why or why not?
I answered those and engaged in a discussion about those questions and my answers to them. As have many others.
Do you honestly believe that the devs are going to make val runics start having 150 charges on them instead of 15? I don't believe that for a second. Is it still an idea that you think would 'help' the game? Sure. Do I think that the devs are going to go back to coding the game to be skill based and not item based? Nope. Is it still an idea that I think would 'help' the game? You betcha.
Now, do you understand?
D
D'Amavir
Guest
No. I want 'properties' to be less of a factor in gameplay and skill to be more of a factor.
I agree, its never going to happen. Neither is it going to happen when I say I wish properties would go away and go back to being what it was in the beginning. I know that. I understand that. But I still think, for me personally, that pvp would be much more fun if it did.
I don't want to leave either. I had to change my style of play because of all the changes they made. I used to be all about rpvp. I would fight every day against other people. I would win, I would lose. But, above all, I would have fun. As soon as AoS hit, that fun started to drain away. No, I haven't pvp'd in gawd knows how long. And, despite what some might say, that isn't because I can't win or because I am a poor sport. Its because its just not as fun. I don't want to spend one second in game trying to grind out the best armor piece and then trying to fit that piece into the rest of a suit makeup. Not one second.
Sure, in the beginning UO had vanqs, invul, supremely accurate and such. But, those items weren't anywhere near as game impacting as items are today. And you didn't need to spend hours trying to figure out what piece worked best with what other pieces. It was 'grab me a vanq and go out fighting. If I don't have one, the maybe I can use this power blade instead.' Fun.
Now its 'this template needs +this and low -that and if this piece has -so and so while this piece has +whozit then those two would fit with my +thingie, -datder, +whatever suit. But if this piece has +thingie then I can trade out this -whodat piece and then run out and try to grind out a +wowza with low -wheredat to add to that suit. Wait, I don't have time to play anymore. I guess I will finish my suit stat building tomorrow and hopefully get into some pvp come christmas'.
That bored me just typing it, and I am sure that it bored anyone that had to read it. I can't even imagine having to do it in game.
If we on Siege collectively wanted them to make 150 charges per barbed/val runic... then, yes... they probably would do it.
The problem isn't them doing it, it's getting the support needed for them to do it. Which is what these discussions are all about.
This thread may have been a trip down fantasy lane of "what if's" for you, but for me... this is my everyday UO life. I play Siege where there is no Trammel. For me, there are no what ifs about it.
Being that-that is the case, I'm only going to discuss things in the realms of truth of the problem (the begining of the thread) and practicality of fixing it (what our discussion has evolved into.)
So this will be my last post to you for now... as I'm betting:
You still don't get it... do you?
D
D'Amavir
Guest
Then maybe you guys should start a really big thread about that. I wouldn't complain.
I definitely misunderstood this thread then. I didn't know it was about making Siege an All Fel ruleset. I thought it already was. But, considering how all you are talking about is Siege, then I must have been wrong. Sorry.
The beginning of the thread where it was asked who would quit if UO (notice I said UO, not Siege) became Fel only rules? Sure, I am all for that discussion. Let me know when you want to start it.
Apparently not. Since I still think that this thread was about changing non Siege shards into Fel only rules. I guess I was tricked by the title and the questions in the first post. But, since you are leaving this 'How to fix Siege' thread and making a new 'How to fix Siege by increasing high end items' thread, I guess it doesn't matter.
D
D'Amavir
Guest
Just because I was clearly confused, I went back to the first post to see where I got off track.
And, just to give my opinion, I would be 100% ok if they removed Trammel from Siege and made all of Siege a Fel only ruleset shard. You have my support.
Well, clearly I was mistaken. This thread was all about Siege after all. My mistake. Carry on.
And, just to give my opinion, I would be 100% ok if they removed Trammel from Siege and made all of Siege a Fel only ruleset shard. You have my support.
Back on Topic:
The all Fel Rules shards we do have need some attention though, they have been decimated by changes that were designed for Trammel, with little thought as how it might affect shards with no insurance.
I am also unhappy with the Evolution of UO with regards to Crafting. The introduction of Trammel didnt have anything to do with it though, we should have been able to craft Spears of Vanquishing back then as we should be able to craft Legs with 20DCI now.
Yes, I would play an all Fel Rules UO... This is what I play on now, Siege Perilous.
I think there are those that would love playing the all Fel Classic UO, I prefer the added content we have now, but all Fel Rules. If you like Trammel and its Ruleset theres nothing wrong with it, to each his own.
The all Fel Rules shards we do have need some attention though, they have been decimated by changes that were designed for Trammel, with little thought as how it might affect shards with no insurance.
I am also unhappy with the Evolution of UO with regards to Crafting. The introduction of Trammel didnt have anything to do with it though, we should have been able to craft Spears of Vanquishing back then as we should be able to craft Legs with 20DCI now.
J
Jhym
Guest
Ah, but those problems didn't STOP you from playing that ruleset, just made it annoying.
It's totally different if folks wish to play the ruleset and then have issues that make it not fun -- but isn't that what trying to make trammel folks play felucca is?? However, the question then becomes: if those issues were so game-stopping that they made it not fun for Seigians (Seigites? Seigisms? Seigates?) wouldnt' they have naturally banded together to beat the crap out of those that were abusing the system, regardless of what the Devs did? Where's that self-policing thing I hear about.
Hmm.
Btw, don't look at my responses as completely against Felucca/Seige; it has its uses and times of play for me (always fun to stealth around and look for interesting trinkets). However, making it the be-all-end-all ruleset is unacceptable, which is why we have Trammel in the first place.
It's totally different if folks wish to play the ruleset and then have issues that make it not fun -- but isn't that what trying to make trammel folks play felucca is?? However, the question then becomes: if those issues were so game-stopping that they made it not fun for Seigians (Seigites? Seigisms? Seigates?) wouldnt' they have naturally banded together to beat the crap out of those that were abusing the system, regardless of what the Devs did? Where's that self-policing thing I hear about.
Hmm.
Btw, don't look at my responses as completely against Felucca/Seige; it has its uses and times of play for me (always fun to stealth around and look for interesting trinkets). However, making it the be-all-end-all ruleset is unacceptable, which is why we have Trammel in the first place.
The original post just asked if there was an All Fel Rules Shard, would you play it, and specifically said that this was in no way a request to remove Trammel.
If the post asked if I would play an all trammel shard i would have said no.
and I would have added there are things about Fel I dont like and would like changed just like I'M sure you have things about Trammel you dont like and would like changed even though you choose to play there.
J
Jhym
Guest
Nope, she asked "Would you still play UO if it was all open PvP??"
Nothing about all Felluca shards.
Nothing about all Felluca shards.
You don't need to spend hours putting together a suit to go PvP. If you want to try to maximize every stat, skill, resist, HCI, DCI, etc... go right ahead and make the "perfect" suit That will take you a long time. It is ok to have some limitations and not be perfect, the trick is to not let your opponent find out what those are.
UO started with very few magic properties (essentially: what is now HCI, DI, Durability, and an AR bonus (Armor Rating, which I don't know what that turned into)). The introduction of the additional properties allows for variation and customization of your character. There are properties that allow you to counteract your opponenets set up (like DCI and HCI). The additional properties added to the experience of UO. As SavageSP pointed out though, crafted items got kicked to the curb, because the crafter could not make items of comparable quality. If I remember correctly, GM armor and weapons were equivalent, if not slightly better than the third tier (out of five) magic item of the same type (I know there is a list of what they were called somewhere).
But as I stated earlier, I voted no. If the Trammel ruleset was not introduced (when it was) myself and my friends would have left for sure. We were glad to have the choice wether to PvP or not. We had no shortage of equipment (infact our former guildmaster was one of the more sought out members of the UBB, his reputation was impecable and we were proud to wear his armor).
Stayin Alive,
BG
M
Moonstar
Guest
no for me
when i started playing trammel already existed and had for atleast a year .
I don't think i would have played very long if there hadn't been trammel .
I'm not totally against pvp ... like in EQII it was very fun for me , in UO it just isn't.
when i started playing trammel already existed and had for atleast a year .
I don't think i would have played very long if there hadn't been trammel .
I'm not totally against pvp ... like in EQII it was very fun for me , in UO it just isn't.
A
Arcamedies
Guest
Pub 16 Made UO go straight down the tubes. Everyone got soft in their game play, because your miner didnt need swords or resist to defend himself while out in the world, and doing a spawn was much more dangerous when you had a chance of being surrounded by monsters, and is in my opinion the reason why PvP hasnt been the same. Trammel, or "Candy Land" as it is known, was the begining of the economic down turn in this game. The market was flooded with rares and stealables that otherwise went unseen except to the L33T players. The housing market was also affected very badly by the land rush.
And even though it was a taboo thing to buy gold in UO, at one time the price of gold was 25$ per Million, compared to todays .99 cents a Mil. I know its hard to believe, but UO gold had a higher exchange rate on the American dollar than 20% of most country's in the world.
And for those of you who say "I would have quit UO a long time ago if Tram wasnt introduced", if it was that frustrating and hard for you, then why did you buy the game in the first place? It told you right on the box that it was a free for all land of PvP and PvE. Even though UO was the very first MMORPG, even after the other games followed it, UO still had the most L33T players on any MMO especially as far as PvP goes.
And even though it was a taboo thing to buy gold in UO, at one time the price of gold was 25$ per Million, compared to todays .99 cents a Mil. I know its hard to believe, but UO gold had a higher exchange rate on the American dollar than 20% of most country's in the world.
And for those of you who say "I would have quit UO a long time ago if Tram wasnt introduced", if it was that frustrating and hard for you, then why did you buy the game in the first place? It told you right on the box that it was a free for all land of PvP and PvE. Even though UO was the very first MMORPG, even after the other games followed it, UO still had the most L33T players on any MMO especially as far as PvP goes.
B
Bara
Guest
Hmm, I had to vote no. I wish there were more options in the poll. Essentially, if the game, as it is today, was suddenly switched over to all feluca rules, I wouldn't be very interested to play it. If it was in the ruleset of the old game, without superdragons and arties and such; sure, I'll keep playing. I feel it was all more conducive to full on pvp back in the day.
At the same time, I'm not one pining for a "classic shard", in fact, I want the game to have an honest sequal. I'm tired of
. I simply want the game to move on, and I feel it needs a sequal to properly do this.
Regardless, I was just trying to answer the question of this post as best I could.
At the same time, I'm not one pining for a "classic shard", in fact, I want the game to have an honest sequal. I'm tired of
. I simply want the game to move on, and I feel it needs a sequal to properly do this.Regardless, I was just trying to answer the question of this post as best I could.
Reading all these posts about the item based haves and have-nots, I believe OSI's idea to fix that is in fact the new "imbuing" skill that is coming out. I mean everyone can get that leet item they've always wanted at a cost, if I read it correctly.
G
Grumm
Guest
I voted no. I remember what started happening to Sosaria before Fel/ Tram came to be. Judging by how many other people were ready to drop this game like a bad habit, I was certainly not alone. Here is an excerpt from an interview of Star Long back on August 19, 1997.
"For online games to be successful, they need to maintain order in a player community comprised of experienced players, rogue players, newbies, and longtime fanatics. Upset the balance, and a company could lose business; for example, if rogue players kill all the newbies, renewed subscriptions plummet."
Now while this was good in theory, in practice, it failed terribly. Players ended up mining in guard zones so they wouldn't get ganked by groups of 3-4 PKs, for no other reason that chest thumping. Anyone remember boat mining?
Of course this wasn't the playstyle of everyone that activly engaged in PvP, but it only takes a few handfulls of "L33T" players to make people not want to play anymore. Regardless of what anyone says, it's all about the subscriptions and the subscription numbers were dropping as a result of uncontrolled PvP.
As for why did people buy the game if it was so fustrating and hard. It wasn't a matter of being frustraded or the game being too difficult. It had to do with some players killing you over and over and over for no other reason than to keep you from doing anything. That is what started turning people off from the game. Besides, people were new to this PvP and PvM thing. No one knew what to expect, not even Origin. Also, how can someone even know if they will get frustraed or find a game too hard if they don't buy it and try it?
The Tram/ Fel split happened for a few reasons. People were fed up with the childish ganking. They had to increase the landmass to accomodate housing for more players and with more players, they needed more areas to hunt.
One thing was for certain though. Subscriptions were dropping. A big reason was the failed attempt at "free for all" PvP. Giving people the option to PvP when they wanted to and not when they didn't, kept this game from becoming a footnote in the gaming industry.
Amost all games after UO offered the option to PvP or not.
"For online games to be successful, they need to maintain order in a player community comprised of experienced players, rogue players, newbies, and longtime fanatics. Upset the balance, and a company could lose business; for example, if rogue players kill all the newbies, renewed subscriptions plummet."
Now while this was good in theory, in practice, it failed terribly. Players ended up mining in guard zones so they wouldn't get ganked by groups of 3-4 PKs, for no other reason that chest thumping. Anyone remember boat mining?
Of course this wasn't the playstyle of everyone that activly engaged in PvP, but it only takes a few handfulls of "L33T" players to make people not want to play anymore. Regardless of what anyone says, it's all about the subscriptions and the subscription numbers were dropping as a result of uncontrolled PvP.
As for why did people buy the game if it was so fustrating and hard. It wasn't a matter of being frustraded or the game being too difficult. It had to do with some players killing you over and over and over for no other reason than to keep you from doing anything. That is what started turning people off from the game. Besides, people were new to this PvP and PvM thing. No one knew what to expect, not even Origin. Also, how can someone even know if they will get frustraed or find a game too hard if they don't buy it and try it?
The Tram/ Fel split happened for a few reasons. People were fed up with the childish ganking. They had to increase the landmass to accomodate housing for more players and with more players, they needed more areas to hunt.
One thing was for certain though. Subscriptions were dropping. A big reason was the failed attempt at "free for all" PvP. Giving people the option to PvP when they wanted to and not when they didn't, kept this game from becoming a footnote in the gaming industry.
Amost all games after UO offered the option to PvP or not.