NEWS [UO.Com] Vendor Search Issues

[MissEcho]

No idea how you people are actually getting a search result in 20 minutes. Even tho that is useless try waiting 2 or more hours. Maybe it is because I am in Australia, I think a dev needs to log into our shard and actually 'see' how bad it is, assuming they want to wait a couple of hours for the result to show. Right now the ONLY option on our shard is to use those 'other' sites which is a shame. I was hoping not to have to resort to that.

 

[cazador]

I haven't noticed a difference..I'm still hanging with plague! You get an E for effort tho guys.


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[Picus at the office]

While my thought's are far from valid anymore as a payer but not a player I still fail to see the advantage for the game to place these resources on this search when the site did the same for, effectively, free. Sad how the team reads these sites and uses them for direction as to the next project while ignoring things that might actually bring players back.

 

[Riyana]

While my thought's are far from valid anymore as a payer but not a player I still fail to see the advantage for the game to place these resources on this search when the site did the same for, effectively, free. Sad how the team reads these sites and uses them for direction as to the next project while ignoring things that might actually bring players back.

Firstly, the search sites only collect data from Luna and known high traffic vendors. Not all vendors are included. The new search function will include them all, giving buyers more options and information and giving sellers more viable options for vendoring outside of Luna.

Secondly, the search sites compile their information through illegal scripting.

Thirdly, the search sites are operated by and exist primarily for the purpose of supporting third party gold sellers. Selling gold is also illegal (though Mythic seemed to have completely turned a blind eye to it).

All that said, if this new search option doesn't do everything the third party sites do, it's going to be just another tool for the sellers to collect data. They'll figure a way to script it and incorporate it into their sites and everyone will keep using them because they do more than the ingame option. The thing I'm thinking about the most is easy price checking on shards other than your own--let's face it, many players trade across shards these days and even those who don't will comparison shop to see what's out there or check a price on an item not available on their own shard.

 

[kRUXCg7]

(...)

I agree with you on most topics. I am still not sure implanting a greyish box (free of any lore) into medieval-themed UO is a good thing.

 

[The Zog historian]

Firstly, the search sites only collect data from Luna and known high traffic vendors. Not all vendors are included. The new search function will include them all, giving buyers more options and information and giving sellers more viable options for vendoring outside of Luna.

Secondly, the search sites compile their information through illegal scripting.

Thirdly, the search sites are operated by and exist primarily for the purpose of supporting third party gold sellers. Selling gold is also illegal (though Mythic seemed to have completely turned a blind eye to it).

All that said, if this new search option doesn't do everything the third party sites do, it's going to be just another tool for the sellers to collect data. They'll figure a way to script it and incorporate it into their sites and everyone will keep using them because they do more than the ingame option. The thing I'm thinking about the most is easy price checking on shards other than your own--let's face it, many players trade across shards these days and even those who don't will comparison shop to see what's out there or check a price on an item not available on their own shard.

All very good points. And as some suspect, those sites deliberately don't show lower-priced search results so they can buy the items themselves.

 

[Riyana]

I agree with you on most topics. I am still not sure implanting a greyish box (free of any lore) into medieval-themed UO is a good thing.

It could be prettier/more aesthetically matched to the game for sure! I'm happy with function over aesthetics in this case though, personally. We've needed something like this a long time.

As for lore, I'm sure they could come up with some little story to explain its existence. Or @Mesanna could hold a story contest...!

 

[Picus at the office]

Firstly, the search sites only collect data from Luna and known high traffic vendors. Not all vendors are included. The new search function will include them all, giving buyers more options and information and giving sellers more viable options for vendoring outside of Luna.

Secondly, the search sites compile their information through illegal scripting.

Thirdly, the search sites are operated by and exist primarily for the purpose of supporting third party gold sellers. Selling gold is also illegal (though Mythic seemed to have completely turned a blind eye to it).

All that said, if this new search option doesn't do everything the third party sites do, it's going to be just another tool for the sellers to collect data. They'll figure a way to script it and incorporate it into their sites and everyone will keep using them because they do more than the ingame option. The thing I'm thinking about the most is easy price checking on shards other than your own--let's face it, many players trade across shards these days and even those who don't will comparison shop to see what's out there or check a price on an item not available on their own shard.

So really the resources should have been better spent unless it's a far better system which it currently does not seem to be. This project was just another jumped on bandwagon to cast dislike upon the "gold sellers". Everytime where some player manages to create a better mouse trap those who can't compete jump here to attempt at ruining that process. I'm not saying that gold sellers are not evil but again they did provide some level of service which EA/Myth/Broadsword does/did not in that it provided both an entry into the highly inflated market that is UO and an exit for those whom wished to "cash out" of the game.

 

[Voodoo Bad Mojo]

As much as I like the vendor search function I still find it easier to browse using a certain website. Wonder if they have any plans to bring out a website search facility.

in this day and age of shard shields there is something to be said for being able to look instantly on multiple shards for the same item without having to log into each shard.

 

[Winter]

So really the resources should have been better spent unless it's a far better system which it currently does not seem to be. This project was just another jumped on bandwagon to cast dislike upon the "gold sellers". ...

I see the Vendor Search as being far, far more than a replacement for the gold-sellers search sites. The web based sites included ONLY Luna and Zento. This left out 99% of player houses. Luna killed off many player towns, because no one visited them any more. It wasn't worth the time and cost to continue running these establishments. I am hoping that the vendor search will bring some of these player run towns back.

 

[PJay]

The vendor search is a terrible idea and i should think will take quite a bit of maintenance.

I would have much rather seen uo.com pulling the information from their database to their website like the current sites work. Instead the extra load created on servers / clients far out weigh's this features benefits.

In its current form is clunky, slow, not multi sharded and cannot be used anywhere at anytime.

I fail to see what goals this project has achieved because the search sites are currently firmly in buisness.

 

[kRUXCg7]

In its current form is clunky, slow, not multi sharded and cannot be used anywhere at anytime.

I am confident it will work as intended very soon.

 

[Aran]

I am confident it will work as intended very soon.

I bet they'll be adding necromancy any day now too.

 

[petemage]

Many promising words were spoken about Broadsword, yet I fail to see any different actions than before. Rushed publishes on fridays. broken for the whole weekend, vanishing communications, and so on.

I dont even need to talk about the search at all. Be it the UI, the feel while using it, the given results, not being able to use it while standing in Luna, and so on.

Just a waste of time to give feedback at all, as long as its no game breaking bug, which they have to fix.

Did they ever fix refinements (as virtually the whole playerbase wishes them stackable)?
Did they ever fix dupe detection?

I dont believe it will change, it's still the same people running this, call it Mythic, Broadsword, EA or whatever.

Looking forward to upcoming Virtue/Vice debacle

 

[Theron]

From time to time I get a window popping up with a search I didn't make showing me some items....is this happening to anyone else?

 

[petemage]

The web based sites included ONLY Luna and Zento. This left out 99% of player houses.

Thats not true. You can easiely submit a rune to even very remote locations. I used to run a vendor half way between Brit and Trinsic. All stuff was gladly listed on search. Only problem was: nobody seemed to have time to travel that far off the grid, when he could buy stuff two screens off Luna gate.

I really hope they integrate the so called "vendor search" into their systems

 

[cazador]

I'm still confused why they used the gumpart they did..it looks like an 8 year old made it..no offense to the guys who put hours and hours into it..but come on!


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[Picus at the office]

I'm very hopefull that this search will work and work well.

I'm still confused why they used the gumpart they did..it looks like an 8 year old made it..no offense to the guys who put hours and hours into it..but come on!

It reminds me of the short time I played Vanguard from Sony, I wonder if the idea of the gump came from another game one of the devs played. Why it isn't linked to a real site like UO.com(which doen't do anything anyways) and have a direct sales window is beyond me. All this effort and ZERO increase in actual game revenue is sad.

 

[Winter]

On the EC side, I am hoping that the gump can be reconfigured using LUA, like most of the other gumps.

 

[Tazar]

Many promising words were spoken about Broadsword, yet I fail to see any different actions than before. Rushed publishes on fridays. broken for the whole weekend, vanishing communications, and so on.

I dont even need to talk about the search at all. Be it the UI, the feel while using it, the given results, not being able to use it while standing in Luna, and so on.

Just a waste of time to give feedback at all, as long as its no game breaking bug, which they have to fix.

Did they ever fix refinements (as virtually the whole playerbase wishes them stackable)?
Did they ever fix dupe detection?

I dont believe it will change, it's still the same people running this, call it Mythic, Broadsword, EA or whatever.

Looking forward to upcoming Virtue/Vice debacle

Ummm... the publish was on Thursday, not Friday.

As for Broadsword, it takes a little time to transition, ramp up operations, hire staff, train staff, etc. You can't expect to see immediate changes. As for Vendor Search - it's been in the works for quite a while and while it hit shortly after Broadsword took over, it was still virtually all done under EA. I for one am willing to give Broadsword time to turn things around. It's not going to happen as fast as you seem to think it will.

 

[Winter]

Ummm... the publish was on Thursday, not Friday.

As for Broadsword, it takes a little time to transition, ramp up operations, hire staff, train staff, etc. You can't expect to see immediate changes. As for Vendor Search - it's been in the works for quite a while and while it hit shortly after Broadsword took over, it was still virtually all done under EA. I for one am willing to give Broadsword time to turn things around. It's not going to happen as fast as you seem to think it will.

I mostly agree with this, and am willing to give them the benefit of doubt. I do think Broadsword will get the vendor search fixed, and it appears to be taking to some - I say get it right.

BUT - it doesn't look good for a new company to promise a fix by 10:00 AM Saturday morning, and then hear nothing further from them some 3 or 4 days later when it still doesn't work. We've been praising Broadsword for the open communication, but now it's awfully quiet!

 

[Bobar]

Actually if you happen to be a player who does not use the Forums you would be totally in the dark. The Official 'Herald' still only contains the original post from last Friday. Some new players must be wondering what has happened. Esp if they have been trying to use their new 'Vendor Search'.

 

[onion456]

regarding how vendor search is implemented, when i first heard of it, i had this idea in my head that you would have to actually go visit a vendor, any vendor, to use the search (menu obtained by single clicking the vendor). sorta like 'hmm i dont have the item youre looking for, but one of my vendor friends does!' and he hands you a map. seems like it would have matched roleplay a little better than a menu that comes from clicking on yourself, which doesnt make any sense at all. =) just thought i'd throw that out there.

btw im really looking forward to it working =)

 

[kRUXCg7]

Would love to combine it with that throw-away-area in Stygian Abyss dungeon. You know... the area where the rats live and thrown-away items appear. Buying things a little dirty from a rat vendor - but cheaper - would be ok for me.

 

[kRUXCg7]

Mh if you expand the whole thing... let it search for monsters, too. Example:

• Bad karma
• > 900 gold coins
• 15-40 fire resistance
• Not immune to pet damage
• Gooseberry odor
  
• 70-95 primary weapon skill (or wrestling)
• Felucca: allowed
• Tamable: yes

 

[Tazar]

I mostly agree with this, and am willing to give them the benefit of doubt. I do think Broadsword will get the vendor search fixed, and it appears to be taking to some - I say get it right.

BUT - it doesn't look good for a new company to promise a fix by 10:00 AM Saturday morning, and then hear nothing further from them some 3 or 4 days later when it still doesn't work. We've been praising Broadsword for the open communication, but now it's awfully quiet!

I understand, but I don't see that as a "Promise" as you do. The post said "Should be". That's not "will be" or another definitive promise in my book.

 

[Winter]

I understand, but I don't see that as a "Promise" as you do. The post said "Should be". That's not "will be" or another definitive promise in my book.

As I said to the bank, "my mortgage payment should be deposited on Monday."

It doesn't really help to parse the language. I wasn't complaining so much about not having it fixed last Saturday as much as no word from the developers about what the status is. Still, as someone else pointed out, it doesn't break the game.

 

[Picus at the office]

I understand, but I don't see that as a "Promise" as you do. The post said "Should be". That's not "will be" or another definitive promise in my book.

Did Orwell coin doublethink for 1984 or UO?

According to the novel, doublethink is:
“ To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget, whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself – that was the ultimate subtlety; consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word 'doublethink' involved the use of doublethink

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Dear UO Team:

I encourage you to continue communicating with us, to continue actively to work on the vendor search issue (it is an important addition to the game), and to see the more-negative comments in this thread as representing frayed nerves and concern for the game.

-Galen's player

 

[bigspivey]

Why are so many freaking out? They released vendor search, had a problem, identified the problem, and are working to solve the problem. Reply from Saturday --- http://stratics.com/community/threads/uo-com-vendor-search-issues.313538/ Do you really want them to get on and say,"We still have identified the problem and are still working to fix the problem."

 

[Winter]

... blah blah blah... Do you really want them to get on and say,"We still have identified the problem and are still working to fix the problem."

Yes - that's exactly what we are asking for. How hard can that be?

 

[Kojak]

This hard - hehe

 

[cazador]

This thread has had me chuckling quite a bit..let's keep it going before the "Amodta HugNKiss" posters start flocking with that whole glass half full crap!

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[4gregu]

The glass isn't half full OR half empty... the glass is too big.

 

[Apetul]

Just saying, I'm a software developer irl and if I promise a feature to a client on a thursday/friday and it doesnt work, then I work on the weekend (because if it doesnt work, obviously its MY fault) and then i'll release a fix on monday morning. Not tuesday, not wednesday. Its very simple, if i cant deliver on time i'll lose my job, i'll lose my credibility and i'll be very ashamed.

I know, i know, UO is just a game but being a software developer and working for a company that has tons of customers isnt a game.. that being said, im really surprised on the amount of bugs that are introduced on each publish and the extensive time it takes to release a new publish or a bug fix.

Dont take me wrong, I'm not upset because vendor search isnt working. Even if it works, ill keep using the "external" vendor search just because I can search on more than *one* shard. As a seller, I need to quickly check how much each item does worth right now and thats only possible using the external vendor search, unless I want to waste 30 mins of my life doing a logon on each shard and looking for the same item name. No, of course I dont want to do that.
Again, im not upset.. im really surprised how mythic/broadsword devs work/deliver.

 

[Hinotori]

 

[kongomongo]

Just saying, I'm a software developer irl and if I promise a feature to a client on a thursday/friday and it doesnt work, then I work on the weekend (because if it doesnt work, obviously its MY fault) and then i'll release a fix on monday morning. Not tuesday, not wednesday. Its very simple, if i cant deliver on time i'll lose my job, i'll lose my credibility and i'll be very ashamed.

I know, i know, UO is just a game but being a software developer and working for a company that has tons of customers isnt a game.. that being said, im really surprised on the amount of bugs that are introduced on each publish and the extensive time it takes to release a new publish or a bug fix.

Dont take me wrong, I'm not upset because vendor search isnt working. Even if it works, ill keep using the "external" vendor search just because I can search on more than *one* shard. As a seller, I need to quickly check how much each item does worth right now and thats only possible using the external vendor search, unless I want to waste 30 mins of my life doing a logon on each shard and looking for the same item name. No, of course I dont want to do that.
Again, im not upset.. im really surprised how mythic/broadsword devs work/deliver.

I am kind of surprised that you as a developer make this faulty comparison. I think it's quite clear this is not a small project but rather a multimillion line of code thing with a legacy of 15 years behind it with massive dependencies within the code which makes preventing regressions a tough job to tackle. Also fixing a bug for one client at one site is a little easier than fixing a codebase for all continents of the earth and pretty much all languages.

I am not trying to say that they did a fantastic job with the vendor search. But it was published to TEST, to two prodo shards and when it went live they most probably experienced a stress-test issue (race condition, overload, etc.) that they are now trying to solve. I'm failing to see the epic fail with the guys.

 

[Winter]

I am not trying to say that they did a fantastic job with the vendor search. But it was published to TEST, to two prodo shards and when it went live they most probably experienced a stress-test issue (race condition, overload, etc.) that they are now trying to solve. I'm failing to see the epic fail with the guys.

The epic fail is communication to the customer - that's part of customer service. You've never had a job as a contractor or sales, else you would know that.

 

[Apetul]

I am kind of surprised that you as a developer make this faulty comparison. I think it's quite clear this is not a small project but rather a multimillion line of code thing with a legacy of 15 years behind it with massive dependencies within the code which makes preventing regressions a tough job to tackle. Also fixing a bug for one client at one site is a little easier than fixing a codebase for all continents of the earth and pretty much all languages.

I am not trying to say that they did a fantastic job with the vendor search. But it was published to TEST, to two prodo shards and when it went live they most probably experienced a stress-test issue (race condition, overload, etc.) that they are now trying to solve. I'm failing to see the epic fail with the guys.

A bug for one client? not sure what are you talking about, I'm doing a comparizon because I work on software that run on a web server farm and everything I code it impacts on every client of the app. But hey, we arent talking about me so lets look on what the UO devs do or can do.

About the stress test "issue".. well, seems that you have knowledge on software development so you should understand that if you are developing a software that interface or is dependent to multiple components/software then you *need* to do Integration Testing. If the software you are working on has 10k customers then its not serious to test the feature on a shard that has 1% of your customers but instead, you need to do Stress Testing.
Its crazy that some people believes that devs do more tests because they now publish to two shards instead of one. Or three shard, if you seriously think TC1 does count as a shard. Thats not considered testing or QA (quality assurance). Publishing new features on these shards should be only used to get feedback from customers or maybe to get measures about usability but never for "customer testing" because you cant expect customers to do any kind of realiable stress, integration, security, etc etc testing.
I dont think mythic (now broadsword, same devs just a different company name) has any QA employee at all, so the responsability for testing each publish goes to the developers and the project manager (or producer, in this company).

Anyway, before a mod decides to lock this thread because people is discussing about something that isnt "on topic" then i willl add that... I'm too waiting on the Vendor search thingy and I'm too expecting some kind of communication from the dev team

 

[BrianFreud]

Well, I'm starting to be disappointed. I was quite hopeful, given the amount of communication from the team on Friday and Saturday. But here we are on Wednesday, and there's been essentially nothing since Sat 10 am was given.

I fully agree with what Winter says above. But it's more than that. Devs, you have to realize that this is the customer experience:

1) I know its coming, but don't know a release date. But I'm excited for it to arrive.
2) You announce a release date for beta testing.
3) You release it to Origin and Izumo. It works quite well. I am now enthusiastic, and shift gold around the shards to prepare for this exciting new search.
3) You announce a release date for all shards; I'm happy and can't wait to get home from work to play with it.
4) The shards come back up 4:14 pm; nothing works. That's ok, I assume it'll be 3 hours, like on Origin and Izumo, before it works.
5) You confirm that assumption in a post.
6) 7:15 arrives, still nothing works.
7) I keep checking every 15 minutes until after midnight, and still nothing. But you guys start responding to posts, so I know you're working on it.
8) Still not working the next day, but you say it'll be up by 10 am on Saturday. I'm not sure I buy it, but I'm hopeful, and you've given me some idea of how long I'll still be waiting for it to work, so I'm patient.
9) Sat 10 am; still nothing.
10) Sat 11 am; still nothing. Start checking the forums again, but no word from the devs.
11) Sat noon, still nothing works. Still checking the forums.
12) Sat 1 pm; still nothing. Still checking the forums.
13) Sat 1:39 pm, message from Bleak at least confirms that you guys are still there at the office working on getting it working.
14) [daily since then] I check when I first log in in the morning and after work; nothing works. I check the forums, but no word from the devs ever since Bleak's post.

Notice where the customer communication broke down? I was fine waiting all the way til Sat 10 am. Why? Because you were keeping us in the loop. Then it still wasn't deliverable, but you guys let nearly 4 hours pass before stating you even knew it was still broken. And since then? nothing.

When you don't help us to manage our expectations, be it for how little or big a change will be, or for how little or much time until something comes, we're left in a black box. We can't see you guys working hard; for all we know everyone went to Hawaii for a quick vacation. So please, just keep us updated, even if it is, as @bigspivey put it, "We still have identified the problem and are still working to fix the problem.". That's just customer relations 101...

 

[Theron]

I guess they are still working on it, must be harder than they initially thought.

But a simple line to keep everyone in the loop couldn't hurt I guess. I keep checking as well...

 

[Tjalle]

I don´t see what the big deal is. When it´s fixed, it´s fixed. Stuff happens.
Just play the game like you normally do until it is.

Sure, a line or two now and then to keep us updated on the progress would be nice but that really doesn´t make the fix go any faster.

 

[Theron]

I don´t see what the big deal is. When it´s fixed, it´s fixed. Stuff happens.
Just play the game like you normally do until it is.

Sure, a line or two now and then to keep us updated on the progress would be nice but that really doesn´t make the fix go any faster.

True

 

[cazador]

Why does everyone even care? It'll come when it comes..the external one is twice as fast..and it's not like u have to worry about missing all these far out vendors like I keep hearing..there are pretty much none, every vendor in game for the most part is in luna,or on a rune at the bank..


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[Theron]

Why does everyone even care? It'll come when it comes..the external one is twice as fast..and it's not like u have to worry about missing all these far out vendors like I keep hearing..there are pretty much none, every vendor in game for the most part is in luna,or on a rune at the bank..


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I've been away for about 10 years and have no idea what is this external you mentioned. Is it a website? Could you tell me which one? PM if you need to

 

[DJAd]

I've been away for about 10 years and have no idea what is this external you mentioned. Is it a website? Could you tell me which one? PM if you need to

Sent.

 

[Winter]

Why does everyone even care? It'll come when it comes..the external one is twice as fast..and it's not like u have to worry about missing all these far out vendors like I keep hearing..there are pretty much none, every vendor in game for the most part is in luna,or on a rune at the bank...

The reason there are no "far out vendors" is because Luna killed them off. I hope the new vendor search will bring them back.

 

[cazador]

The reason there are no "far out vendors" is because Luna killed them off. I hope the new vendor search will bring them back.

Me too..because luna sucks so bad! But this could come out in a day or 3 weeks and it changes literally nothing game play wise..most people will still use the external to gather multi shard prices..it just seems underworked, not as efficient...idk


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[Picus at the office]

Me too..because luna sucks so bad! But this could come out in a day or 3 weeks and it changes literally nothing game play wise..most people will still use the external to gather multi shard prices..it just seems underworked, not as efficient...idk

Yup, if it isn't at least as fast and effective as the current option who would bother to use it. Considering that you can run the search in a seperate window while filling a vendor makes it all the more ideal for a player and forget the idea that 90% of current users have it bookmarked thus making it the default already. A year ago I asked why this was being done for all those reasons and more yet nothing has seemed to answer this. Added value, it has none

 

[Lady CaT]

Yup, if it isn't at least as fast and effective as the current option who would bother to use it. Considering that you can run the search in a seperate window while filling a vendor makes it all the more ideal for a player and forget the idea that 90% of current users have it bookmarked thus making it the default already. A year ago I asked why this was being done for all those reasons and more yet nothing has seemed to answer this. Added value, it has none

I'm glad we are finally getting a in game search. Why you ask? Third party search engine have always had the ability to control what is and isn't seen in a search. Why is this important? Because it puts the people who operate them in a unique position of power to control the economy. How you ask? Here are a few examples..

Example 1) Well suppose a hot new item comes out in game and everyone is searching for it? As a third party search engine operator one can simply collect the data where they are and not let it be shown on the site for a while and then collect them for themselves to resell for $$$ or on their in game vendors to make gold to resell.

Example 2) They can see what searches are most popular as a third party website operator and then go out and buy out vendors they have data on before anyone else and set up their shopping malls with the most in demand items, thus having an advantage over their competitors in game. After all, if a character can be programmed to recall around to your shop to do inventory for its search database , couldn't the character be programmed to buy the hot items.

Example 3) The search database program knows where all the miss priced and cheap resources are before anyone else does thus again giving the third party website operator a unique advantage to buy and collect.

Example 4) The search engine can track sales of items by seeing what items are missing from previous data collection and thus get a better idea what items sell in economy .

I could go on and on with more examples of how the data they collect can be used for an unfair advantage. Frankly I'm surprised something wasn't done about these third party website searches long ago and I for one am glad that it will now be handled in game. Maybe now everyone will be put on a more level playing field.