NEWS [UO.Com] Updated Publish 81 on TC1

[Love them Redheads]

I'm not even going to bother reading this because it will all just change next week.

That and it's probably even more complicated, vague crap piled on an already complicated system.

 

[Revan123]

I'm not even going to bother reading this because it will all just change next week.

That and it's probably even more complicated, vague crap piled on an already complicated system.

A couple of my posts are new ideas. You should read them.

 

[Love them Redheads]

I sure hope people are paying close attention to what I'm saying and actually giving it some consideration. There is so much faulty logic going around. No offense, but many of these people just don't understand Ultima Online pvp.

This made me laugh

Oh enlighten us god of UO PvP........... tell us more about how your mage with just enough ninja to run away is going to get totally shafted. Sorry, but some people just can't accept that if you're fighting 6 people, even 6 average people, you should die. Turning into a llama and speedhacking away might not work no more.... so sad.

 

[Revan123]

This made me laugh

Oh enlighten us god of UO PvP........... tell us more about how your mage with just enough ninja to run away is going to get totally shafted. Sorry, but some people just can't accept that if you're fighting 6 people, even 6 average people, you should die. Turning into a llama and speedhacking away might not work no more.... so sad.

I edited that comment off, on the terms that it is a judgment call and not a logical argument. But to argue your point, if you are getting ganked by 6 people, even WITH animal form, you are most likely going to die. 10 Seconds is plenty of time for 6 people to kill one before he can animal form, and even then, he still has certain disadvantages.
-So Sayeth the Almighty Revan, God of UO PvP.

 

[Lythos-]

Oh, so you're the S.O.B. trying to push all of this nonsense? lol. I wish I had read your original posts... you can send me a shortcut if you'd like... " I did suggest to slightly increase the casting speed but that didn't make it and it's no big deal." "No Big Deal?" lol. You've already convinced the devs to make it interruptable and not affected by FC, of course increasing the cast speed is "not a big deal." It's ALL READY GETTING NERFED TO SH*T!

And Yes... my ninja's all have ninjitsu...

If a mage invested in Chivalry points, would it they be considered a Chivalry mage? Or would you accuse them of ABUSING Chivalry for just a few spells? Only someone with some angry underlying agenda would hide behind an excuse like that.

I didn't push for a form nerf but since it was put on the table I stated my case on what would be fair to all, which is a hardcap on casting speed. You can agree or disagree, it's your prerogative.

You can hunt for my previous posts if you like. I'm not digging through these multiple threads.

It is no big deal. I've had more templates nerfed and killed off than most of you guys have ever even played. I'll adapt and keep on keeping on.
I certainly hope your ninjas have ninjitsu! If not then it's not really a ninja eh?

You didn't pick a very good example. Mages were abusing Chiv (remove curse, sacred journey)which is why they nerfed the FC if magery was above 70 i think. I had nothing to do with that btw.

I'm neither angry nor do i have an agenda. I want what's fair for all.

 

[CovenantX]

I edited that comment off, on the terms that it is a judgment call and not a logical argument. But to argue your point, if you are getting ganked by 6 people, even WITH animal form, you are most likely going to die. 10 Seconds is plenty of time for 6 people to kill one before he can animal form, and even then, he still has certain disadvantages.
-So Sayeth the Almighty Revan, God of UO PvP.

If you're getting ganked by 6 people, you should have more people with you, OR... don't get dismounted in the first place. UOA-dismount/remount easy, awareness is the rest.
If you ride an ethy you'll just have to teleport a few times (as a mage) before you would easily get an animal form off in a gank.

I'm so glad it's going to be interrupt-able and not become a fast casting spell with FC/FCR. otherwise mages would have been the only ones able to use it easily... sadly enough mages use it just as much as dexers do now a days. Besides...It will still be useful, just not a 100% chance to survive if people know what their doing.

Refinements are the only thing that could cause more imbalances in this publish. one Could be very hard to hit, BUT become weaker vs mages, due to resistances being lowered...
assuming after curse, a player with say 69% cap in any elemental resist, would be taken down to 59% resistance in anything that's not capped at 70. or above.

I do like the idea of refinements, it gives you the ability to make your character better vs weapon-heavy damage, and weaker vs casters. or vice-versa.
It would be handy to know the Lowest you could take your DCI cap, for upping resistances though, we seem to have the highest cap dci cap at 95%.

I'm also glad HLD is not made completely ineffective because it's ridiculously easy to get 70% dci on a suit (currently), especially if you use a shield. (I do), but most people who use shields likely have parry so that's an even greater defensive bonus.

Side note : Although I wasn't able to test refinements on TC yet... Is there a command, that "gives" us refinements in our bank-box?
Farming for stuff on TC just to test isn't my cup of tea...

 

[Lythos-]

I see what you mean now by reducing casting speed. By the way you worded it in your last post, it seemed like you meant to increase it, Yes I agree with that. it would make it easier for ANYONE using the ninja template to animal form, while still keeping it disruptable. Still a ridiculous nerf in my opinion, but at least a balanced approach to keep most people happy.

No, because as I said, the pet ball would still be interruptable. You can also increase the cast time per pet that you already have summoned, to avoid having pets all over felluca. In other words, make the first pet half a second, and the second pet a second long. That would be like interrupting a greater heal; not hard. Third pet a second and a half and so on. Then people would stick to their first pet unless it's already dead.

See, i like to be fair for all. Hardcap with quicker casting time is the only way imo.

Your petball idea is ok but needs major tweaking. .5sec for each slot is too quick. Someone could initially petball a horse for .5sec which is the exact time it takes to cast clumsy/weaken/feeble. That means someone would have to time it exactly to interupt. Even a poison is 1sec which i feel is still a little to fast. Somewhere between 1.25 to 2sec would be plenty.

First things first though..we need to get through this armor nightmare and get it where it's at least playable.

 

[Revan123]

See, i like to be fair for all. Hardcap with quicker casting time is the only way imo.

Your petball idea is ok but needs major tweaking. .5sec for each slot is too quick. Someone could initially petball a horse for .5sec which is the exact time it takes to cast clumsy/weaken/feeble. That means someone would have to time it exactly to interupt. Even a poison is 1sec which i feel is still a little to fast. Somewhere between 1.25 to 2sec would be plenty.

First things first though..we need to get through this armor nightmare and get it where it's at least playable.

.5 seconds is not too fast. if you make it much higher, it is going to be just as slow as petballs are now, and who uses them now? no one. .5 seconds is the speed of a circle two spell, no? and poison is a circle three, being at .75sec. If I'm wrong, can someone show me a chart? Besides, if you combine the fact that it will be disruptable, with (what you seem to have ignored) the fact that pets are poisonable, stunnable, mortal woundable, and killable, it will be a fair alternative to ninjitsu. It would not be ridiculously easy to remount, but people would essentially have a chance. It would be similar to the new changes to animal form, disruptable but with a slightly faster cast, but with the negative that keeping your pets un-poisoned, un-stunned, and alive is a priority in itself.

 

[Revan123]

I didn't push for a form nerf but since it was put on the table I stated my case on what would be fair to all, which is a hardcap on casting speed. You can agree or disagree, it's your prerogative.

You can hunt for my previous posts if you like. I'm not digging through these multiple threads.

It is no big deal. I've had more templates nerfed and killed off than most of you guys have ever even played. I'll adapt and keep on keeping on.
I certainly hope your ninjas have ninjitsu! If not then it's not really a ninja eh?

You didn't pick a very good example. Mages were abusing Chiv (remove curse, sacred journey)which is why they nerfed the FC if magery was above 70 i think. I had nothing to do with that btw.

I'm neither angry nor do i have an agenda. I want what's fair for all.

Ok but my example was not given to make the argument that a mage using chivalry would or would not be overpowered, it was made to argue the point that the notion that a skill could be "Abused" simply because another class is using it is completely ridiculous. Mages did use chivalry during age of shadows, and it got nerfed rightly so. But my example was not over a mage picking up chivalry during age of shadows, my example was of a mage picking up chivalry right now. If a mage were to pick up chivalry today, would you say that they are "Abusing" chivalry? And as far as the over-powered argument goes, I already argued why a mage picking up 80 ninjitsu JUST to animal form is *NOT* overpowered. It's a *REACTIONARY RESPONSE* and therefore cannot possibly be more powerful than the dismount itself. But that's a point that you don't seem to care much about.

 

[Revan123]

If you're getting ganked by 6 people, you should have more people with you, OR... don't get dismounted in the first place. UOA-dismount/remount easy, awareness is the rest.
If you ride an ethy you'll just have to teleport a few times (as a mage) before you would easily get an animal form off in a gank.

I'm so glad it's going to be interrupt-able and not become a fast casting spell with FC/FCR. otherwise mages would have been the only ones able to use it easily... sadly enough mages use it just as much as dexers do now a days. Besides...It will still be useful, just not a 100% chance to survive if people know what their doing.

Refinements are the only thing that could cause more imbalances in this publish. one Could be very hard to hit, BUT become weaker vs mages, due to resistances being lowered...
assuming after curse, a player with say 69% cap in any elemental resist, would be taken down to 59% resistance in anything that's not capped at 70. or above.

I do like the idea of refinements, it gives you the ability to make your character better vs weapon-heavy damage, and weaker vs casters. or vice-versa.
It would be handy to know the Lowest you could take your DCI cap, for upping resistances though, we seem to have the highest cap dci cap at 95%.

I'm also glad HLD is not made completely ineffective because it's ridiculously easy to get 70% dci on a suit (currently), especially if you use a shield. (I do), but most people who use shields likely have parry so that's an even greater defensive bonus.

Side note : Although I wasn't able to test refinements on TC yet... Is there a command, that "gives" us refinements in our bank-box?
Farming for stuff on TC just to test isn't my cup of tea...

One thing people need to understand, YES it is pretty easy to get 70 dci. Of course you have to sacrifice other stuff on your suit to get it, so in a sense it's a fair trade, but YES it is pretty easy to get. But that doesn't mean it's *OVERPOWERED.* Even with 70 DCI Dexxers/Throwers STILL hit mages enough to have a higher damage output than them. I mean are you playing the SAME Ultima Online that I am? Have You EVER tried fighting a dexxer/thrower with only 45 dci without wrestle/parry? When these mods were created during age of shadows, they were never made to be capped, or reach the point that they're at now. The point is, sure maybe 70 dci isn't too hard to get. But neither is all of the other stuff that dexxers stack. 45 HCI is not difficult to get, and neither is 30 SSI, with 100 DI, with 50 Hit Fireball, with 50 HLD, and even 30-50 Hit Velocity on some weapons. If DCI is going to be nerfed on the grounds that it's too easy to get, I demand that HCI also be nerfed because it's TOO EASY TO GET. After all, you don't see mages using Hit Lower Attack. Have you ever considered that HLD is a hell of a lot easier to get than HLA? You don't see many mages running around with HLA... Maybe HLD is too easy to get. Without HLD anyone a dexxer/thrower fights will have 45 DCI, where as every dexxer/thrower will have 45 HCI. Is that not even? Who's to say that DCI is too easy to get, when HLD is so much easier to get than HLA? Why does DCI have to be nerfed? Saying that it is too easy to get is not a valid point. It does not prove that throwers/dexxers are at a disadvantage.

 

[spoonyd]

After fighting a zillion blues at Yew with my red and 4 or so CREW guys I've decided that UO is going to suck from now on anytime you fight blues or a bigger group. Even WITH ninja as it stands I still die when I'm constantly dismounted and a million blues are on me. At least with form I have a chance to live. Now I might as well just go get a drink when I get dismounted on a red or faction character. Even with a million blues they still hug guardzone till a dismount goes off. I can only imagine what Yew is gonna look like....A sea of blues holding hands because no one wants to fight against that **** anymore outnumbered.

Officially decided that my accounts are going inactive (and more ppl with me) if this goes through as is. There's no point to playing a mage solo or small group anymore no matter what color your character is. Between the lack of a REAL disarm change and ninja nerf it's pointless to play unless you can zerg and no worry about dismount gank.

Fantastic job to all who wish to ruin pvp. Maybe they'll realize their mistake when the game becomes very inactive and they change it back. Till then....League of Legends!

 

[Lythos-]

.5 seconds is not too fast. if you make it much higher, it is going to be just as slow as petballs are now, and who uses them now? no one. .5 seconds is the speed of a circle two spell, no? and poison is a circle three, being at .75sec. If I'm wrong, can someone show me a chart? Besides, if you combine the fact that it will be disruptable, with (what you seem to have ignored) the fact that pets are poisonable, stunnable, mortal woundable, and killable, it will be a fair alternative to ninjitsu. It would not be ridiculously easy to remount, but people would essentially have a chance. It would be similar to the new changes to animal form, disruptable but with a slightly faster cast, but with the negative that keeping your pets un-poisoned, un-stunned, and alive is a priority in itself.

.5 sec is the exact casting time as a weaken/clumsy/feeble http://uo2.stratics.com/magery/spells

I didn't ignore the fact they can be poisoned. By the time one can grab the pet bar using the target system and put a poison up or attempt to attack the pet, the remount macro is finished and once again we're off to the races.

Ok but my example was not given to make the argument that a mage using chivalry would or would not be overpowered, it was made to argue the point that the notion that a skill could be "Abused" simply because another class is using it is completely ridiculous. Mages did use chivalry during age of shadows, and it got nerfed rightly so. But my example was not over a mage picking up chivalry during age of shadows, my example was of a mage picking up chivalry right now. If a mage were to pick up chivalry today, would you say that they are "Abusing" chivalry? And as far as the over-powered argument goes, I already argued why a mage picking up 80 ninjitsu JUST to animal form is *NOT* overpowered. It's a *REACTIONARY RESPONSE* and therefore cannot possibly be more powerful than the dismount itself. But that's a point that you don't seem to care much about.

A current chiv mage is not abusing the system because it's already been addressed and balanced properly..just like animal form will be.

I never said it was overpowered. I simply wanted a fair balance to everyone using it. Giving a mage an automatic boost to this nerf just by using already standard faster casting jewels isn't giving a fair balance to everyone using it.

I feel like im repeating myself on this and frankly i'm bored with the topic. I've stated my case. Like it or lump it, it's not up to me to determine what happens. Make a case and provide feedback for yourself.

One thing people need to understand, YES it is pretty easy to get 70 dci. Of course you have to sacrifice other stuff on your suit to get it, so in a sense it's a fair trade, but YES it is pretty easy to get. But that doesn't mean it's *OVERPOWERED.* Even with 70 DCI Dexxers/Throwers STILL hit mages enough to have a higher damage output than them. I mean are you playing the SAME Ultima Online that I am? Have You EVER tried fighting a dexxer/thrower with only 45 dci without wrestle/parry? When these mods were created during age of shadows, they were never made to be capped, or reach the point that they're at now. The point is, sure maybe 70 dci isn't too hard to get. But neither is all of the other stuff that dexxers stack. 45 HCI is not difficult to get, and neither is 30 SSI, with 100 DI, with 50 Hit Fireball, with 50 HLD, and even 30-50 Hit Velocity on some weapons. If DCI is going to be nerfed on the grounds that it's too easy to get, I demand that HCI also be nerfed because it's TOO EASY TO GET. After all, you don't see mages using Hit Lower Attack. Have you ever considered that HLD is a hell of a lot easier to get than HLA? You don't see many mages running around with HLA... Maybe HLD is too easy to get. Without HLD anyone a dexxer/thrower fights will have 45 DCI, where as every dexxer/thrower will have 45 HCI. Is that not even? Who's to say that DCI is too easy to get, when HLD is so much easier to get than HLA? Why does DCI have to be nerfed? Saying that it is too easy to get is not a valid point. It does not prove that throwers/dexxers are at a disadvantage.

I haven't sacrificed anything on my suit to get 70dci but the full 18hpr. I'd rather have the dci over a few points regin.

Throwers are a whole other animal and shouldn't be used as any example.

As far as HLD goes, i think 55% is too much. That being said, i think HLD should have SOME effect. Maybe leave it at 55% but cut the duration way down. I'm not sure but once again i'll adapt and try to keep having fun.

This whole publish isn't about what's overpowered, with the exception of my arch enemy, the thrower *cough, like Cetric*. It's about creating an even balance that we can all live with without creating another monster headache. The Devs are expecting testing and solid fact filled feedback.

 

[Revan123]

.5 sec is the exact casting time as a weaken/clumsy/feeble http://uo2.stratics.com/magery/spells

I didn't ignore the fact they can be poisoned. By the time one can grab the pet bar using the target system and put a poison up or attempt to attack the pet, the remount macro is finished and once again we're off to the races.

Not true. It takes about ten seconds before someone can remount, MORE than enough time to get a bar... If you have a hard time getting the pets bar, you need to work on your skills. I never have a problem with it.

A current chiv mage is not abusing the system because it's already been addressed and balanced properly..just like animal form will be.

I never said it was overpowered. I simply wanted a fair balance to everyone using it. Giving a mage an automatic boost to this nerf just by using already standard faster casting jewels isn't giving a fair balance to everyone using it.

To say that something is being "Abused" you are either inferring that it should not be used by another class simply because it's not SUPPOSED to be that way, or because it's overpowered for another class to use it. I argued the point that the notion that a skill should not be used by another class just because it's SUPPOSED to be a part of another class is ridiculous; and you just argued the point that it's not overpowered. In which case, how can you consider it to be "Abused"?

Throwers are a whole other animal and shouldn't be used as any example.

As far as HLD goes, i think 55% is too much. That being said, i think HLD should have SOME effect. Maybe leave it at 55% but cut the duration way down. I'm not sure but once again i'll adapt and try to keep having fun.

I wasn't only using throwers as an example though. But they're not just buffing HLD. They're also making it where any and all DCI above 45 is no longer considered in the calculation. so that means that if you hit someone even with 70 dci, their dci will be dropped to 22.5. 45% of 45 is 22.5. I don't think HLD should absolutely have SOME effect, because as I said, dexxers/throwers STILL have a higher damage output than a mage with 70 DCI, and like I said most mages don't have HLA. Why should HLD absolutely HAVE some effect, when most mages can't even fit HLA on their weapons, and even if they could, it would rarely go off with such a low hci? Nerfing mages so that every time they get hit by HLD, their dci drops to 22.5% DCI is NOT balancing. It's outrageous.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

After fighting a zillion blues at Yew with my red and 4 or so CREW guys I've decided that UO is going to suck from now on anytime you fight blues or a bigger group. Even WITH ninja as it stands I still die when I'm constantly dismounted and a million blues are on me. At least with form I have a chance to live. Now I might as well just go get a drink when I get dismounted on a red or faction character. Even with a million blues they still hug guardzone till a dismount goes off. I can only imagine what Yew is gonna look like....A sea of blues holding hands because no one wants to fight against that **** anymore outnumbered.

Officially decided that my accounts are going inactive (and more ppl with me) if this goes through as is. There's no point to playing a mage solo or small group anymore no matter what color your character is. Between the lack of a REAL disarm change and ninja nerf it's pointless to play unless you can zerg and no worry about dismount gank.

Fantastic job to all who wish to ruin pvp. Maybe they'll realize their mistake when the game becomes very inactive and they change it back. Till then....League of Legends!

I think if you are looking to find where imbalances are located in a game, you can rely on a certain sub-group within the population to discover them and use those imbalances to their advantage. To confirm that such imbalances exist, look at the mechanics and determine whether the ability is comparable to other powers in game. If not adjust them so they are equal in power. You will know you succeeded when the sub-group can not take any more advantage of this mechanic then any other in game....

Though it may seem like I am slamming the anti disrupt ninja folk, they have a valid point in that dismount is a really powerful tool in the game and there are few mechanics built into the game that help you survive as well as animal form. Making it disruptable makes it comparable to other forms of escape but its still one of the best options outside of stealth, hide ninja using smoke bombs.

Moving this back to the current publish... rather then spending time complaining about a change that is in line with the games mechanics, start thinking about the core issue.... Dismount and the mechanics in game that can be used to survive when on foot being ganked.

Revan had a good idea on changing pet balls to be similiar to animal form. I'd apply his logic to both animal and pet balls... Large pets and larger forms should be slower to summon and transform into.... Apply other game mechanics like the caster specialization, a ninja with less then 30 of any other casting form can apply fc up to 2, to reduce time. Apply the same logic to pet balls, a tamer with no casting over 30 can apply fc2 to summoning a pet..... Make animal form the faster of the two because even if you are not a specialized caster (ninja) you have invested skill points so someone with a pet ball should be easier to disrupt. I went on test and the current speed seems just about right so I'd make a pet ball two ticks slower for a horse type mount... I'll also say that removing animal form (returning to your natural state should not be interuptable, as is common with removing effects haven't tested if it is or not).

Also people complain that while in animal form you can't do anything.... Maybe that SHOULD change.... Start talking about how animal form should be more useful.... give each form specials based on tactics and ninjitsu act as the weapon skill. So wolf form for example might get claws (bleed) and Bite (Pierce) as form specials. Even silly forms no one uses like Squirll could get defensive skills like Feint and Evade (like the bushido spell but uses ninjitsu, parry, and tactics for the chance in squirill form) Forms with auto specials like snake and toad would get a percentage (20%) to inflict those on a hit plus two special moves, etc. Toad would be defensive so maybe disarm and feint and snake offensive so infectious strike and mortal.

You could also tie dismount into stamina changes, allow the timer to be broken like push through... re-mounting is possible at full stamina but reduces stamina to 0.... then people can re-mount but prob have to chug prior and after... this keeps dismount powerful but gives players multiple options to work with and around it depending on template and build. If that is to easy to abuse then make re-mounting disruptable as well at a fast spell or swing speed 1.25 (you retain stamina if disrupted).

I am not writing this to say this is how it should be but as an example on how you can shift your thinking forward to innovate rather then be stuck and stagnate.

I know this is in some ways a fringe topic for the publish and even through I disagree that the change to animal form is that drastic I hope people that do feel that way at least feel I listened to the arguements even if in the end I didn't agree.

-Lore's Player

 

[KLOMP]

Is there anyone willing to say with a straight face that letting players hit 95 DCI, and supercharging HLD so that a PVP guy with 95 DCI will even feel it, are actually good ideas? I mean if a random player had rolled up and made an "I have an idea!" thread like this, it would have been laughed off the board as being hysterically imbalanced.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

I wasn't only using throwers as an example though. But they're not just buffing HLD. They're also making it where any and all DCI above 45 is no longer considered in the calculation....Nerfing mages so that every time they get hit by HLD, their dci drops to 22.5% DCI is NOT balancing. It's outrageous.

To clarify if the system goes through as is, mages can wear non-med armor and refine to take advantage of DCI over 45.

The community seems to be pretty united that this needs to be changed and hopefully it will before it hits an actual shard (If you have been following the thread, I've been posting about the balance issues it creates since it came out).

...but worse case scenerio if it does go through, there is your option, even if very limiting.

-Lore's Player

 

[Revan123]

To clarify if the system goes through as is, mages can wear non-med armor and refine to take advantage of DCI over 45.

The community seems to be pretty united that this needs to be changed and hopefully it will before it hits an actual shard (If you have been following the thread, I've been posting about the balance issues it creates since it came out).

...but worse case scenerio if it does go through, there is your option, even if very limiting.

-Lore's Player

If that's the case, I'll probably just mage duel until I get bored of it and quit. I'm not going to bother field fighting on any toon (mage or non-mage) if it's a dexxer/thrower fest. That's not a threat, just a realistic conclusion.

 

[LordDrago]

It's all about the base.

Don't drop the base!!!

 

[spoonyd]

If that's the case, I'll probably just mage duel until I get bored of it and quit. I'm not going to bother field fighting on any toon (mage or non-mage) if it's a dexxer/thrower fest. That's not a threat, just a realistic conclusion.

Conclusion well founded and correct. Obviously I haven't fought with or against you much at all but at least you know what you're talking about when it comes to the current and upcoming state of PvP.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Did you see my post regarding Dragon Armor base resists?
http://stratics.com/community/threads/uo-com-updated-publish-81-on-tc1.295967/page-2#post-2248403

I did... but what I think you may have missed is that regardless of all of that, the Refinement for Dragon Armor is only useful for red or plain dragonscale. All of the rest of them are essentially less desireable because of the specific order the Refinement is attached in.

Re-forging is very simple. Before re-forging, we would roll a material bonus until we got the desired resists, like say a Barbed Leather tunic with 16 energy resist, which is kind of rare. Then we would add powder of fort to put the tunic to 255 dur. After that, we would imbue properties. Re-forging adds two steps. First, you create a base, without the material bonus. You craft, say, a Leather tunic, then you re-forge a mod class, say Mystic/of Sorcery, and hope for Mana Regen 3. Once you get MR 3, you then attempt to enhance the tunic with a material, such as Barbed. Then you powder and imbue.

Okay... I mean, I suppose we can look at it as "simple" in that it's very easy to hope and pray for something. But... on the other hand, let's look at it from a more... realistic viewpoint:

(1) Craft an item without material bonus -- which is a strange way to start a crafting process, but I digress for the sake of reforging.
(2) Reforge and hope and pray for the mod we're looking for -- similar to hope and pray for 16 energy resist, but this time it costs more than leather (at very least, lots of BOD stuff... yeah, yeah, I know, you can bribe, do unlimited numbers, et cetera).
(3) Enhance -- ie: Destroy Immediatly. Yes, I know that with luck you get an item that actually enhances without destroying it... but say you've got that nice MR3 you're talking about... great, but it's also very likely to go poof under enhancing, UNLESS: You spend $10.00 with EA to get a 100% enhancing tool. Which then takes the random out of random, but costs real money for an item that once you hit step 5 has a very finite life.
(4) PoF.
(5) Imbue. Oh, and depending on the mod/s you got, imbuing is a bit more challenging. Additionally, depending on the percentages of everything, you might not even be able to do a full imbue because there's still a rounding error in determining how many points can be imbued.

I mean, okay... I guess the process is clearer to me now, but I stand by my initial question: How many crafting adjustment systems does one game need? The individual systems aren't even equivalent to each other. Metal has 8 potential enhancements, leather has 3, and wood has, what, 6? Dragonscale is 6, I think... though I guess one color must be "base dragonscale?"

I don't know... I really sort of see this as more I before E except after C and the B is sometimes silent if preceded by an M and Y is never a consonant except when it is, and when it is, it sounds like and I except when it sounds like an E, et cetera ad nauseum. And yet, for some reason, we still can't alter the APPEARANCE of certain items that would fit the same slot. I'd be much more appreciative of a crafting system that let me take a robe and turn it into a tunic, or an apron and turn it into a kilt, and so on and so forth. I guess I digress here, but this whole reforging thing does seem reliant on a things which other systems already relied on as well: Luck or Money.

 

[Lythos-]

Also people complain that while in animal form you can't do anything.... Maybe that SHOULD change.... Start talking about how animal form should be more useful.... give each form specials based on tactics and ninjitsu act as the weapon skill. So wolf form for example might get claws (bleed) and Bite (Pierce) as form specials. Even silly forms no one uses like Squirll could get defensive skills like Feint and Evade (like the bushido spell but uses ninjitsu, parry, and tactics for the chance in squirill form) Forms with auto specials like snake and toad would get a percentage (20%) to inflict those on a hit plus two special moves, etc. Toad would be defensive so maybe disarm and feint and snake offensive so infectious strike and mortal.

You could also tie dismount into stamina changes, allow the timer to be broken like push through... re-mounting is possible at full stamina but reduces stamina to 0.... then people can re-mount but prob have to chug prior and after... this keeps dismount powerful but gives players multiple options to work with and around it depending on template and build. If that is to easy to abuse then make re-mounting disruptable as well at a fast spell or swing speed 1.25 (you retain stamina if disrupted).

-Lore's Player

Animal form already has some neat specials. Rat form adds 10 stealth, frog form poisons everytime someone hits you, snake form poisons everytime you hit someone, wolf form adds hc and hpr, unicorn form gives you total immunity to poison and i forget what the others do.

On top of the ability to disrupt animal form, casting time should be reduced equal to FC1.

I propose a dismount change: This for a wep only. Toggling the dismount special on ranged weapons would lower hit chance to 25. This would only apply to ranged weps. This penalty wouldn't apply to non ranged weapons. If you play silly and stand there while someone swings a bola then that should be your problem. Like this? Send in feedback.

 

[Lythos-]

Not true. It takes about ten seconds before someone can remount, MORE than enough time to get a bar... If you have a hard time getting the pets bar, you need to work on your skills. I never have a problem with it.


I wasn't only using throwers as an example though. But they're not just buffing HLD. They're also making it where any and all DCI above 45 is no longer considered in the calculation. so that means that if you hit someone even with 70 dci, their dci will be dropped to 22.5. 45% of 45 is 22.5. I don't think HLD should absolutely have SOME effect, because as I said, dexxers/throwers STILL have a higher damage output than a mage with 70 DCI, and like I said most mages don't have HLA. Why should HLD absolutely HAVE some effect, when most mages can't even fit HLA on their weapons, and even if they could, it would rarely go off with such a low hci? Nerfing mages so that every time they get hit by HLD, their dci drops to 22.5% DCI is NOT balancing. It's outrageous.

I don't think even a new pvper in their right mind would summon a pet BEFORE the remount timer is up and have it walk behind them. In 10 seconds i can have every bar on screen. It would be physically impossible to grab a pets bar in .5 a sec summon time with an instant remount following according to the change you want. You and Spoony are kinda cute in the way you're trying to hang on to those quick getaways. Lol.

I agree the 55% hld is insane with 45dci cap. It wouldn't be if they allowed refinements to med armor which may be an upcoming change. This is exactly why it's a bad idea to work on so many game changing things at once.

My mystic has no med so i can use non med armor, refinements and take full advantage of the dci buff. I didn't want to do it this way but it's just one way to work around things.

 

[Cetric]

I just think they should add the FC back to animal form. If someone has FC, they should be able to use it. I'm completely fine with disrupts.

Hell, a ninja dexer can just smokebomb then animal form to get his cast, a mage won't have that option unless they get a few teleports off or an invis or something.

 

[Cetric]

After fighting a zillion blues at Yew with my red and 4 or so CREW guys I've decided that UO is going to suck from now on anytime you fight blues or a bigger group.

That was fun as hell last night by the way, that was one hell of a blue brigade. One of the more fun nights of pvp i've been on for in a while, between despise terra/star and the gate surprisingly lol.

 

[CovenantX]

I mean are you playing the SAME Ultima Online that I am? Have You EVER tried fighting a dexxer/thrower with only 45 dci without wrestle/parry? When these mods were created during age of shadows, they were never made to be capped, or reach the point that they're at now. The point is, sure maybe 70 dci isn't too hard to get. But neither is all of the other stuff that dexxers stack. 45 HCI is not difficult to get, and neither is 30 SSI, with 100 DI, with 50 Hit Fireball, with 50 HLD, and even 30-50 Hit Velocity on some weapons. If DCI is going to be nerfed on the grounds that it's too easy to get, I demand that HCI also be nerfed because it's TOO EASY TO GET.

My Main suit only has 40% DCI, and I do not have a single character with the Parry skill. (I use a shield, because I rarely use pots... on a mage =D)... and obviously the DCI.




Other stats include - 18% damage eater, 18 hpr, 18 mr, 3 sr, 30 hpi, & 4 mana inc. (83 fire & 85 poison resists) 0% casting focus

[Edit:Wow... I just realized I never used a +5 valiant scroll of commendation... *fixed* +5 more str ftw.
cause well... Dex is useless on a mage without parry. /end Edit]

After all, you don't see mages using Hit Lower Attack. Have you ever considered that HLD is a hell of a lot easier to get than HLA?

HLD vs HLA, easier because it's on more than just weapons? No, but I know HLA takes less imbuing weight than HLD does... Besides, most mages use +15% Dci mage-weapons Or still use a planesword... (+15 Dci +50% fireball/Lightening...) instead of HLA, It doesn't matter anyway really.

HLD, is available on 2 items at max in one suit at a time... as opposed to HLA, only possible on a weapon?... it matters not. but since you mention it...
How about trying to over-cap HCI to become HLA-proof? your other properties would suffer much, much more than over-capping DCI (on all templates), but like I said, that doesn't matter anyway.

It does not prove that throwers/dexxers are at a disadvantage.

Am I the only person that thinks all dexers except Throwers are underpowered?
Seems to me, you guys are just worried about HLD because of being outnumbered. fighting outnumbered isn't something balances should be based upon.

I could see maybe getting rid of one of the two.
1. No over-capping DCI,
or
2. make HLD reduce DCI by 55% and continue to allow over-capping.

but the current DCI/HLD changes are ok IMO... just not so sure about refinements, as far as increasing resistances... DCI cap not so much.

Throwers are getting nerfed Balanced in both cap HCI & damage/speed mind you. they were OP anyway...

 

[CovenantX]

I just think they should add the FC back to animal form. If someone has FC, they should be able to use it. I'm completely fine with disrupts.

Hell, a ninja dexer can just smokebomb then animal form to get his cast, a mage won't have that option unless they get a few teleports off or an invis or something.

what about those ninja dexers, without hiding/stealth? smoke bombs don't work.
you'd be better off with hiding on a mage instead of ninjitsu... sorry to say, but how hard is it to teleport/hide?

A dexer wouldn't get away with that either btw, unless they were a dexer w/fc/fcr for teleports after a dismount...

 

[Lythos-]

Am I the only person that thinks all dexers except Throwers are underpowered?

fighting outnumbered isn't something balances should be based upon.

I could see maybe getting rid of one of the two.
1. No over-capping DCI,
or
2. make HLD reduce DCI by 55% and continue to allow over-capping.


Throwers are getting nerfed Balanced in both cap HCI & damage/speed mind you. they were OP anyway...

I love this.

It's not that dexxers are underpowered, it's that nobody wants to put effort into learning to set one up and play them correctly. The tools are there. Anymore, it's just monkey see monkey do on template builds.

Some people act like dying to a gank is the end of the world. It's going to happen. If you create a template that can survive a mass gank, then you're creating something that was never intended to happen to begin with.

I like you're #2. Ok that didn't sound right at all but you know what i mean.

 

[G.v.P]

I did... but what I think you may have missed is that regardless of all of that, the Refinement for Dragon Armor is only useful for red or plain dragonscale. All of the rest of them are essentially less desireable because of the specific order the Refinement is attached in.

I agree, the refinement system--and the changes to DCI--will make everything a bit wonky. But for the most part, we won't have to change our existing PvM armor too much after this publish, only our PvP armor. PvM armor should retain its resists, DCI (not too many HLD situations in PvM), and stam changes should make it so leather armor is as good as current in Pub 80. So we should pretty much be able to ignore Publish 81 from a PvM standpoint unless we want an even more uber suit. And if we do, the changes to metal and leather enhancement will give us a ton of options as far as getting the right resists (those 7s in metal enhance).

I don't know... I really sort of see this as more I before E except after C and the B is sometimes silent if preceded by an M and Y is never a consonant except when it is, and when it is, it sounds like and I except when it sounds like an E, et cetera ad nauseum. And yet, for some reason, we still can't alter the APPEARANCE of certain items that would fit the same slot. I'd be much more appreciative of a crafting system that let me take a robe and turn it into a tunic, or an apron and turn it into a kilt, and so on and so forth. I guess I digress here, but this whole reforging thing does seem reliant on a things which other systems already relied on as well: Luck or Money.

There are definitely a lot of different ways and steps in order to get what we want or need in a suit right now, and re-forging does rely on RNG. The good thing about re-forging, though, is you can get everything you'd want done with a dull copper runic or a spined sewing kit, or the like, the basic runics. Not needing top end runics makes re-forging quite accessible.

I feel like the DCI changes are a bit extreme, and the refinement system should be put on hold because we will be dealing with so many changes as it is. I would make it so DCI has a -10% rather than a -55% and start from there.

 

[Cetric]

what about those ninja dexers, without hiding/stealth? smoke bombs don't work.
you'd be better off with hiding on a mage instead of ninjitsu... sorry to say, but how hard is it to teleport/hide?

A dexer wouldn't get away with that either btw, unless they were a dexer w/fc/fcr for teleports after a dismount...

I completely agree with you, the only area where it still becomes an issue, i suppose for anyone that uses ninja, is where you are getting ganked by more than you can handle and can't form. But i also see that well, if you are getting Ganked by more than you can handle, then you should probably die.. lol.

Honestly, besides stealther dexers, animal form was barely used except by factioners to avoid stat loss better since more faction guilds role in groups. Factions created a bad mentality. I try an advocate for people to abandon factions but i'm always the ***** for suggesting it, even though they are only in them to get artifacts and grief stat. Non-faction pvp just seems better to me, but thats another discussion all together. I could care elss if i died in a gank when on a non-factioner, just res and re-pot. Most people didn't abandon their faction arty mentality, even though they are non-faction.

 

[KLOMP]

It wouldn't be if they allowed refinements to med armor which may be an upcoming change. This is exactly why it's a bad idea to work on so many game changing things at once.

I don't think it was really their intention to make refining up to 80 - 90 DCI totally mandatory in PVP for absolutely everyone, as would be the case here. Certainly the first few posted builds of these systems didn't require it. I mean don't get me wrong, letting everyone refine is better than only letting some refine and having the rest just go die, but they really need to just get rid of Refinement.

I can't even find anyone to take the "Tell me with a straight face that this is a good idea!" challenge.

 

[Revan123]

Conclusion well founded and correct. Obviously I haven't fought with or against you much at all but at least you know what you're talking about when it comes to the current and upcoming state of PvP.

ermmmm... thanks. I just wish more people who understood the intricacies of UO pvp would actually speak up. There seems to be very few people actually arguing logical points with much substance (Not that there isn't any), but there's a lot more B.S. going around than reason. Of course people are going to accuse me of a being a "Better Than Thou Mage," and not to sound condescending, but I probably am a whole lot better than at least 95% of the people speaking on this board. Of course, anyone can make that claim, but people can always duel me and find out. if you listen to my arguments, I actually have a large number of really good points that people seem to be ignoring, and responding with points like, "Well Wolf/llama/ostard form is not the only form anyone uses." Which has nothing to do with the argument of it's usefulness in PvP. People make a ton of points that don't hold up at all against skeptical reason and "Big-Picture thinking." And of course, quantity isn't everything, but if people were to actually compare my points to others, I seem to have a lot more substance... But of course, I imagine the developers will listen to the few "Zerg-minded" bluebies who don't know much about pvp, and just like to post. Sorry for the judgment guys, but I call it like it is.

 

[Revan123]

I propose a dismount change: This for a wep only. Toggling the dismount special on ranged weapons would lower hit chance to 25. This would only apply to ranged weps. This penalty wouldn't apply to non ranged weapons. If you play silly and stand there while someone swings a bola then that should be your problem. Like this? Send in feedback.

I don't think even a new pvper in their right mind would summon a pet BEFORE the remount timer is up and have it walk behind them. In 10 seconds i can have every bar on screen. It would be physically impossible to grab a pets bar in .5 a sec summon time with an instant remount following according to the change you want. You and Spoony are kinda cute in the way you're trying to hang on to those quick getaways. Lol.

I agree the 55% hld is insane with 45dci cap. It wouldn't be if they allowed refinements to med armor which may be an upcoming change. This is exactly why it's a bad idea to work on so many game changing things at once.

My mystic has no med so i can use non med armor, refinements and take full advantage of the dci buff. I didn't want to do it this way but it's just one way to work around things.

1) Noble attempt, but the 25 hci debuff sounds lame tbh.
2) Summon a pet before the remount timer? When did I ever say someone would do that? all I said was they can't remount for ten seconds which gives someone plenty of time to kill/poison/para their pet. And Yes, we are trying to hang on to quick getaways, because that's what makes UO such an amazing game, with enough skill you can accomplish ANYTHING. Not like WoW or other games where to be outnumbered guarantees death. And Yes... There is skill involved, even with animal form.
3) no one would use refinements for leather armor anyway. It's a crap system. a gain for a loss. at least with woodland gear, it's a 5HCI/10DI/2HPR gain for... NOTHING! But yeah, you're right.
4) even Focus regenerates slower when you don't have medable armor. Test it

 

[RaDian FlGith]

There are definitely a lot of different ways and steps in order to get what we want or need in a suit right now, and re-forging does rely on RNG. The good thing about re-forging, though, is you can get everything you'd want done with a dull copper runic or a spined sewing kit, or the like, the basic runics. Not needing top end runics makes re-forging quite accessible.

I definitely have to agree with you there. Making the system accessible without requiring a valorite or verite hammer (or the like) is definitely a bonus!

 

[Revan123]

what about those ninja dexers, without hiding/stealth? smoke bombs don't work.

Dude.. are you serious? lol

 

[Revan123]

HLD vs HLA, easier because it's on more than just weapons? No, but I know HLA takes less imbuing weight than HLD does... Besides, most mages use +15% Dci mage-weapons Or still use a planesword... (+15 Dci +50% fireball/Lightening...) instead of HLA, It doesn't matter anyway really.

HLD, is available on 2 items at max in one suit at a time... as opposed to HLA, only possible on a weapon?... it matters not. but since you mention it...
How about trying to over-cap HCI to become HLA-proof? your other properties would suffer much, much more than over-capping DCI (on all templates), but like I said, that doesn't matter anyway.

None of this really disproves my thesis that HLA is a lot harder for a mage to pick up than HLD, let alone use. Nor do your other arguments really.

 

[Lythos-]

1) Noble attempt, but the 25 hci debuff sounds lame tbh.
2) Summon a pet before the remount timer? When did I ever say someone would do that? all I said was they can't remount for ten seconds which gives someone plenty of time to kill/poison/para their pet. And Yes, we are trying to hang on to quick getaways, because that's what makes UO such an amazing game, with enough skill you can accomplish ANYTHING. Not like WoW or other games where to be outnumbered guarantees death. And Yes... There is skill involved, even with animal form.
3) no one would use refinements for leather armor anyway. It's a crap system. a gain for a loss. at least with woodland gear, it's a 5HCI/10DI/2HPR gain for... NOTHING! But yeah, you're right.
4) even Focus regenerates slower when you don't have medable armor. Test it

1: im not worried with, i just threw it out there. It would be nice to have dismounters miss 60% of the time though.
2: There's already a remount timer after dismount and someone would be completely stupid to summon a pet before the very instant they could mount it. Unless you're talking about creating another system seperate from mounting an ethy.
3: i would use it if it came down to playing between with 20dci after hld or losing some resists.
4: i don't have to test it. I'm fully aware of what 98% of everything pvp related does in this game.

I'm sorry but i find nothing awesome or even the slightest bit honorable in a fool proof method to run away using little to no skill whatsoever. Especially in a situation that should have been fatal.

If you have a real case, submit it via feedback. I think we've both made our cases to each other. Good day sir.

 

[CovenantX]

None of this really disproves my thesis that HLA is a lot harder for a mage to pick up than HLD, let alone use. Nor do your other arguments really.

Hrmm, HLA/HLD... a mage wouldn't use neither... so.. what are you saying?

It's about DCI being reduced on Mages vs dexers. Dexers NEED to beable to hit everything. HLA/HLD on a mage has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Dexers probably don't over-cap DCI anywhere near as much as a mage does, because they don't get interrupted like mages do.

They already have a 50% chance to hit when the target is the same weapon skill level & DCI vs HCI.
how is this DCI/HLD change overpowered ?

 

[Bleak]

Hrmm, HLA/HLD... a mage wouldn't use neither... so.. what are you saying?

It's about DCI being reduced on Mages vs dexers. Dexers NEED to beable to hit everything. HLA/HLD on a mage has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Dexers probably don't over-cap DCI anywhere near as much as a mage does, because they don't get interrupted like mages do.

They already have a 50% chance to hit when the target is the same weapon skill level & DCI vs HCI.
how is this DCI/HLD change overpowered ?

The 55% DCI penalty from HLD can provide a 10% hit chance increase to the attacker at 45 HCI vs 45 DCI. Since this can no longer be negated in Pub 81 we will be making more adjustments.

 

[Lythos-]

The 55% DCI penalty from HLD can provide a 10% hit chance increase to the attacker at 45 HCI vs 45 DCI. Since this can no longer be negated in Pub 81 we will be making more adjustments.

50% DCI penalty is plenty if you allow a 70 overcap. That leaves 35dci which should, in theory, be good enough to live with.

 

[Kage]

The 55% DCI penalty from HLD can provide a 10% hit chance increase to the attacker at 45 HCI vs 45 DCI. Since this can no longer be negated in Pub 81 we will be making more adjustments.

I just don't understand the need for a change. Most mages that I know of only run 45 DCI as it is in pvp and when HLD goes off we get hit all the time....

No good mage runs 70 DCI this day in time... Would you like to know why? Because if you look into it most pvp mages actually pvp with Mage weapons and they get disarmed pretty much non stop so there is no reason to wast mods on going over 45% DCI Just saying.

 

[Cetric]

The 55% DCI penalty from HLD can provide a 10% hit chance increase to the attacker at 45 HCI vs 45 DCI. Since this can no longer be negated in Pub 81 we will be making more adjustments.

please dont make any more weird adjustments, id rather you scrap the system than make weird adjustments that we have to sit here and debate endlessly.

 

[CovenantX]

The 55% DCI penalty from HLD can provide a 10% hit chance increase to the attacker at 45 HCI vs 45 DCI. Since this can no longer be negated in Pub 81 we will be making more adjustments.

Could you look into sneaking in the removal of Poison immunity granted via poisoning skill perhaps? that would be amazing.

 

[Revan123]

I wonder if this many people were also arguing FOR the faction changes... I bet those threads were FULL of posts from BRILLIANT pvpers with a keen understanding of the quantified intricacies of UO PvP; of how awesome it would be if faction items decayed; if rank was much harder to achieve, and impossible to maintain by the people who can only log on once or twice a week; with four posts supporting it for every post against it! What a great change that turned out to be. As a matter of fact... I wonder if the same people who support these changes also supported those... I sure hope so, their say obviously has a lot of weight...

 

[CovenantX]

I just don't understand the need for a change. Most mages that I know of only run 45 DCI as it is in pvp and when HLD goes off we get hit all the time....

No good mage runs 70 DCI this day in time... Would you like to know why? Because if you look into it most pvp mages actually pvp with Mage weapons and they get disarmed pretty much non stop so there is no reason to wast mods on going over 45% DCI Just saying.

you know, if this is the case, the HLD changes wouldn't do anything different than what they do currently... it would only effect people who over-cap dci differently, and more in favor of the dexer with HLD.

45% dci + HLD -25 (currently) = 20 while under the effects of hld.
45% DCI + HLD -55% (pub 81) = 20 while under the effects of hld.


I'm more concerned about refinements (Resist bonuses) tbh, but according to Bleak, they're planning to make some more "adjustments" to HLD/DCI.
guess that means there's not much of a point in testing it right now eh?

 

[Revan123]

Didn't realize there was an update, so I'll just retype my post in the old thread:
Can we get rid of the resistance of poison ticks for people who don't have poisoning? (human or non-human). I'm talking about when someone is already poisoned and they resist the tick when it comes, causing them to be cured. I don't mean for people with poisoning, I approve of people with the poisoning skill having a natural resistance to poison; but there's no reason someone without poisoning should be able to resist the ticks. This is something that normally wouldn't be a big deal, but just happens to be due to the complexity of mage dueling. Making poison ticks "un-resistable" to players who don't have poison is a change that I doubt will upset anyone, but will definitely make the community of mage duelers a lot happier. After all, it is only really relevant to the mage dueling community; and duelers prefer less to be left to chance. Thank You.
-P.S. Like this status if you'd like this change to be made.

I know people support this. Can they speak up now please?

 

[WootSauce]

please dont make any more weird adjustments, id rather you scrap the system than make weird adjustments that we have to sit here and debate endlessly.

I agree with this post. I agree with this post even if it was posted on day 1 of ALL of the proposed changes when the mention of Pub 81 was made. I disagree with Cetric greenlighting much of what was in this last edit to the publish, but I agree with his statement now, because it was my stance at day 1 of this nonsense...

"please dont make any more weird adjustments, id rather you scrap the system than make weird adjustments that we have to sit here and debate endlessly"

 

[CovenantX]

I wonder if the same people who support these changes also supported those... I sure hope so, their say obviously has a lot of weight...

I'd support it if the immunity was removed completely .
few people I know who quit due to those changes... (a couple were in my guild ) in combination with the faction changes you mentioned above.

the first things they ask, "Is poisoning & throwing still OP?" and "Does anyone still mage-duel?"

Take a look Pvp needs attention, aside from the more recent changes. pretty much everything that's imbalanced in pvp has been talked about throughout the thread....lots to read.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

The 55% DCI penalty from HLD can provide a 10% hit chance increase to the attacker at 45 HCI vs 45 DCI. Since this can no longer be negated in Pub 81 we will be making more adjustments.

I really hope the Dev team takes a seriously looks at the adjustments the players have suggested. Outside of a few posts (which were not bad but focused more on indivdual play styles then overall game balance) the feedback has been insightful and constructive to the DCI, refinement, mage armor issues.

I know everyone wants to have the most unique, clever idea but sometimes the best idea is a shared thought of unknow origins. A great Dev isn't always the one with the best idea, but someone who can recognize the value of ideas outside their realm of thinking and adapt that into their original mold to create a fair and balanced system for the community.

-Lore's Player

 

[KLOMP]

I just don't understand the need for a change.

It all becomes clear once you realize that the Refinement system is some developer's baby, and that they will absolutely uproot the game's balance in order to support and justify it. They desperately want dexers with potentially as much as 95 actual uncapped DCI to be a real thing, and all of this DCI/HLD agony is just their attempt to balance that. Except they've been "tweaking" for a month and balance is still a complete disaster.

I'd bet money PVP mages weren't even nerfed on purpose here. The developers just realized that tying HLD to your DCI cap meant that no one would want to raise their DCI cap, so they tied it to plain old DCI instead. Whoops.

 

[KLOMP]

The 55% DCI penalty from HLD can provide a 10% hit chance increase to the attacker at 45 HCI vs 45 DCI. Since this can no longer be negated in Pub 81 we will be making more adjustments.

You've been making adjustments for a solid month now and you still can't find anyone with anything good to say about the system. Even the most moderate voices here seem to believe it should be left out of Publish 81 and reconsidered at a later time. Exactly what would it take for you to abandon the idea? You can't possibly continue to push it while pretending to take feedback seriously.

I'll say it again and defy anyone to disagree: If some newbie rolled onto this forum and made a suggestion thread about letting people raise their DCI cap to damn near 100 and messing with HLD to compensate, they would be shouted down almost instantly. It's a completely preposterous idea.