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Consensus amongst our alliance (which is huge), is these changes are fair, and will hardly change anything for us. We would often do them with spawns anyway.
Our scouts knew you did this, and watched you today.Well, I don't want to upset anyone further, but it seems they've now halved the drops/loot on the roof:
You used to be able to get 2 bosses and drops and loot obs (143) . However now you can only get one.
I'm glad that one is fixed also.
Congrats, now only the people who play many accounts will benefit from shadowgaurd, thus making the game worse for every casual player. Your such a whiny child when you don't get your way buddy. Keep throwing those temper tantrums and making UO terrible.Well, I don't want to upset anyone further, but it seems they've now halved the drops/loot on the roof:
You used to be able to get 2 sets of bosses and drops and loot (but only have to kill 6 bosses) obs (143) . However now you can only get one.
Please explain to me how fewer people using the content helps the game. Our guild always does shadowguard in groups. Now they will do it alone so they won' have to worry about others moving the spawn all over the place.
And a solo Sampire can still do it in 1/4 the time a group of tamers can do it now.
If reducing places the casual gamer can play, helps the community, maybe we should close all encounters and watch the subscription rate rise.
This is a bad argument, and you know it. Despite what you and the rest of LS might think, I am, in fact, a casual player. And there is NOTHING in the game I am incapable of doing.
Have you even tested the new Shadowguard changes? Oh wait, no you haven't. It's not even bad. I took THREE FREAKING ACCOUNTS to the Roof and only one of the 3 bosses I fought gave me any problems...which is the same exact boss I have issues with now when I use my "solo" setup.
I've been playing console/handheld games for nearly 30 years. Do you know how many times I've said "man, this is hard" or "man, this isn't fun" (when not talking about grinding for rare item drops) over the years? To be honest, I've lost count. Do you know what I did each time? Sucked it up, tried new things until they worked, and finally beat w/e it was that was giving me trouble. I didn't keep throwing **** at the wall in the hopes that it would stick.
Why do you complain about something you haven't even done yet? My chars on TC still have all of the rooms done. Copy a character over, and if you don't have them done on LS right now, yell for Kyronix and he'll set you to have them completed. I will show you exactly how much has changed with the Roof.
You don't have to bring specific templates for anything though? Except Slasher and Stygian Dragon, because they're designed to obliterate pets. You can do everything else on tamers. You can do everything else on mages. You can do everything else on dexers. You can even do pvm content on pvp chars. It's a question of how practical and efficient it is:
Doom - rooms very doable on tamers. Dark Father is not, unless there's only one. Can some things with the DF be changed? Of course.
Shadowguard: Very doable on tamers even with Fiendish Calling. Dexers can do it too...and if you think it can be done in a fraction of the time with a solo sampire, you're very mistaken.
You complain about the grind...for what reason? Every game ever has grinding. Pretty much every RPG has level grinding, rare drop grinding, some have ability grinding, etc. I get that you don't necessarily have the time to commit to it, but nobody's saying (in the case of instanced content like Shadowguard) that you can't do a little at a time.
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Well, before, people who played anything other than a tamer would not be welcome in the roof. Now it doesn't matter, it's a nice even playing field. As for only poeple who have multiple accounts getting drops, i'm pretty sure even EJ accounts receive a drop.
I think you'll find i didn't "whine" about anything, i simply filled out a form that stated a fact.
And we both know why this was the case. Pawain just doesn't want the pvm in this game to be anything other than Tamers Online.
First of all, the timing of this AI Fiendish call change really blows! For almost three years it has been like this, and all this time we keep reading the Roof is where you need to be for the top loot, and it is one place where tamers get to shine. Now we finally get round to ready some pets for it, and BOOOM. This change shows it's ugly mug at the doorstep. We even gave some pets chiv since "the roof are single boss battles anyway" when done the right way. Now that suddenly is a liability?! Really stinks!
We certainly can agree that making the encounter more challenging is a good thing. (And that the unlucky timing is wholly our own fault. Being late to the party also happened in Doom so that is a nasty deja vu.) But there is a world in between more challenging with SOME spawn, and the messy crazyness as shown in the pictures similar to Doom. Yes it can be seen as unfair that "Tamers get the best loot" (although by no means this was undoable for Sampires as shown in multiple videos on youtube for example), but then why not up the loot in Doom? Do they really have to snatch it away from casual tamers? As has been said several times, this really starts to look like Sampires Online. For those that feel the test runs were a success, to us collecting death robes is not something we consider fun. The way Juonar is now, that seems certified deathrobe collecting from what we read. We guess we should test to see for ourselves, but well, time is of course very limited to hopefully get to do a run on our own shard like it has been for the past years... So we prefer to focus building towards that. Although again the doubting nature strikes on what to do with our pets now.
And DrCossack, we must say we cannot understand how one can multiclient in that mess at all? And still call yourself a casual player, the scientific military like strategy IS what makes the elite players?! In our opinion at least. You have our utmost respect!
We certainly can agree that making the encounter more challenging is a good thing. (And that the unlucky timing is wholly our own fault. Being late to the party also happened in Doom so that is a nasty deja vu.) But there is a world in between more challenging with SOME spawn, and the messy crazyness as shown in the pictures similar to Doom. Yes it can be seen as unfair that "Tamers get the best loot" (although by no means this was undoable for Sampires as shown in multiple videos on youtube for example), but then why not up the loot in Doom? Do they really have to snatch it away from casual tamers? As has been said several times, this really starts to look like Sampires Online. For those that feel the test runs were a success, to us collecting death robes is not something we consider fun. The way Juonar is now, that seems certified deathrobe collecting from what we read. We guess we should test to see for ourselves, but well, time is of course very limited to hopefully get to do a run on our own shard like it has been for the past years... So we prefer to focus building towards that. Although again the doubting nature strikes on what to do with our pets now.
And DrCossack, we must say we cannot understand how one can multiclient in that mess at all? And still call yourself a casual player, the scientific military like strategy IS what makes the elite players?! In our opinion at least. You have our utmost respect!
Hey I didn't give a rats rear end either way, I was just commenting that if this was indeed a BUG, it's a crying shame that the devs had to have it shown to them. I didnt care for the roof before lol, because it was tamer oriented and I dont have a tamer. My archer got eaten up, and I have no intention of doing all the rooms again for a slight chance at something usesful.
If Pawain wants to copy over to test center, we can make a party of it. I'd be willing to go with you guys~
I really do think a couple other people who are posting here that are freaking out, need to copy over and do it with people who have done it. You don't have to be an elite player to do it. It doesn't take that much longer than usual and it's not that much different.
It wasn't that hard - Anon wasn't even that much of a mess for me, although it did spawn mobs fairly often. It's why I had the White Wyrm tamer on standby until stuff popped up - they don't take very long to kill, and Anon doesn't retarget to my tamers very often.
I'll get you a video of Anon/Ozy when I go back to Test Center.
We did videos of alot of our runs, did not get anon though, we spent a lot of time actually testing out something we noticed with anons healing so we kept him up a long time.
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Larisa
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Yeah I was surprised when Kyronix said it only took us 25 minutes total to do all 4 bosses on our first run...it felt like a LOT longer because of the spawn lol but he was watching us the whole time.
I am by a far cry from an elite player...basic mage/tamer template with low mana and not a great suit and it was NOT that hard....people need to relax
I am by a far cry from an elite player...basic mage/tamer template with low mana and not a great suit and it was NOT that hard....people need to relax
No. You are the one who tells everyone to use a certain template. I am for all templates to be used in all parts of the game. Your own words:
The roof is now like DF. (if it is like one DF that would be fine. But, those pics from above show a lot more spawn than 1 DF makes.) They cant find the Boss body.
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The run where we couldn't find the boss was our second run without Kyronix being there to tweak the spawn down.
Currently the spawn is a bit much but still doable, during our first run we had no issues finding the corpse of the final boss.
It is NOT like DF at all....it's very managable...if Kyronix gets on TC later and helps you should come join us..it's really HONESTLY not bad at all.
Uhh, no I don't? I find it ridiculous that people choose "Fun" (which, as it turns out, is anything BUT fun) over efficiency. Do you really think I wouldn't be able to make a Tamer work for ALL Of Doom? Because I can. Very easily. But I recognize that it's MUCH harder to do so, to the point that it's not really worth the headache involved.
except it isn't anything like the DF, which you'd know if you actually tested it. First off, Consume Damage works for Anon and Ozymandias. Second, the things the bosses (other than Juo'nar) actually spawn aren't that much of a threat: Anon spawns some of the Shame Evil Mages, Elder Gazers, and Wisps. Do you know how long it took my White Wyrm to kill the Wisps and Gazers? A couple seconds. The Fire Beetle I was using also had Frenzied Whirlwind. Third, the Roof bosses don't have a leash like the Dark Father. Lastly, everything spawned on the Roof is automatically flagged to your pets (or players, should they trigger Fiendish Calling.) In Doom, the Blood Elementals and Ancient Liches don't have the proximity of the traditional Undead spawn, so they can aggro on characters who aren't actively attacking the DF.
You do realize Larisa was with a group of 5 tamers, do you not? I was using 1 tamer, occasionally 2, for Anon. The spawn was VERY manageable. For Ozymandias, I had all 3 of my pets on it, so the spawn was nuts in the short time I was there. But the things he summons (Tokuno overland spawn - Tsuki Wolf, Elite Ninja, Lesser Hiryu) all do physical damage, so you can just leave Consume on. I can't offer my opinion on Virtuebane just yet, as I haven't seen him on TC (re-entering the Roof to get different bosses wasn't cooperating.) Even so, I don't think I'll have too much trouble with it.
If the spawn is reasonable and manageable, I am all for it.
But I will probably start doing it with Sampire/Peace bard combo in this case. It will be easier.
I will just miss being able to relax and drink while doing it when the bosses weren't Jun'oar.
But I will probably start doing it with Sampire/Peace bard combo in this case. It will be easier.
I will just miss being able to relax and drink while doing it when the bosses weren't Jun'oar.
We have groups on Siege doing the Roof all the time with spawn triggering chars. Sure, we die now and then but it has never been even remotely close to undoable as far as I know.
So not sure what the testing on TC is about. Just activate the same level of spawn for pets as it has been for dexers/mages all along.
So not sure what the testing on TC is about. Just activate the same level of spawn for pets as it has been for dexers/mages all along.
It really isn't that big a deal, as you've said - I've been going with spawn-triggering chars for a while as well. Hell, even the tamers in our group have caused spawn on occasion, due to Word of Death. It's not that big a deal.
Some people are *****ing just to *****, because they can no longer abuse a bugged mechanic. Does it need some adjusting for a larger group of tamers? Maybe, maybe not. For my 3 characters, it was manageable. But I deliberately tried to avoid making it messy at the start, not knowing whether the spawn would attack my actual characters. Anon's also easier to deal with when you don't have to switch between 3 clients every time he transforms.
I will say all of my responses have been of sheer annoyance more than anything. If this had not been working as intended, or at least that important for it working the way it has been, it just struck me as odd that they waited 10 publishes before they addressed it.
The other thing I had argued for was just that it’s hard enough sometimes to find people to do encounters with because they are so grindy and not every person has the time to do the prep work (Shadowguard rooms, Zippy prequest, Golden Skull), and especially if the end result is just more hectic.
That being said, from what I’ve tested, it’s not the end of the world. It wouldn’t be as hectic if they scaled the spawn a bit, but really the main concern Juonars Skelley Dragons.
Now, I know that certain templates faired better, as my archery tamer was able to focus on cutting down spawn while pets chewed out the bosses.
All in all, my opinion is this:
If it had been something gamebreaking, they could have fixed it in publish 91. After letting it be this long, I’m not surprised people are up in arms. For me, what the change does can be dealt with. My issue is that after all this time, it’s even being changed.
Just my thoughts on this. And I personally don’t get how talking crap about one another is going to fix anything.
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The other thing I had argued for was just that it’s hard enough sometimes to find people to do encounters with because they are so grindy and not every person has the time to do the prep work (Shadowguard rooms, Zippy prequest, Golden Skull), and especially if the end result is just more hectic.
That being said, from what I’ve tested, it’s not the end of the world. It wouldn’t be as hectic if they scaled the spawn a bit, but really the main concern Juonars Skelley Dragons.
Now, I know that certain templates faired better, as my archery tamer was able to focus on cutting down spawn while pets chewed out the bosses.
All in all, my opinion is this:
If it had been something gamebreaking, they could have fixed it in publish 91. After letting it be this long, I’m not surprised people are up in arms. For me, what the change does can be dealt with. My issue is that after all this time, it’s even being changed.
Just my thoughts on this. And I personally don’t get how talking crap about one another is going to fix anything.
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What is this bug “able to get 2 set of bosses drop and loot but only have to kill 6 boss” ?Well, I don't want to upset anyone further, but it seems they've now halved the drops/loot on the roof:
You used to be able to get 2 sets of bosses and drops and loot (but only have to kill 6 bosses) obs (143) . However now you can only get one.
On average, need to repeatly kill 8 bosses to get 1 drop which is actually useless most of the time.
As a causal player, I absolutely have no ideas how to do that.
Did Shadowguard on TC yesterday with @Khaelor and @Caitlyn Snow . Specs were Spellweaving Tamer (with no focus), Necromage Tamer, and Archer tamer. We assigned roles before starting, but we were not in voice chat or any kind of constant communication (other than in-game chat). @Caitlyn Snow primarily killed the adds, with myself as backup. @Khaelor and myself kept party and pets alive.
Juo'nar was a bit of a rough start, but all went fine once we got it under control. Anon recording didn't come out right, but the others are below.
Juo'nar:
Ozymandias:
Virtuebane:
Juo'nar was a bit of a rough start, but all went fine once we got it under control. Anon recording didn't come out right, but the others are below.
Juo'nar:
Ozymandias:
Virtuebane:
Glad I could help. MrJ (or as I call him the Lich in need of an attitude adjustment) would have gone down faster but I forgot to bring an undead slayer. Thinking about trying this with a Rune corruption pet as well. Gotta Test further and see.
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I'm happy that Kyronix is actively engaged in making the encounter manageable for groups and classes of various sizes - while maybe not as ideal for some as the adds not procing at all, it sounds like it'll at least be workable.
Regarding the idea that people should abandon tamers and just take sampires because they're more efficient, that's a non starter to me. I recently made a sampire and am actually really enjoying it - but i also realize that not everybody wants to go that route, and endgame content should really be doable across all of the viable pvm builds, even if some are more or less efficient than others. A lot of people really enjoy playing tamers, put a lot of time and effort into building their pets and customizing them for different content, and using them in it - i dont think its right to ask them to throw all that aside and play a template they dont enjoy in whats supposed to be the most lucrative and fun encounters for long-time players. Properly balanced, it should be challenging but fun for whatever pvm-optimized template you want to bring. I have no issue at all with making the encounter require some forethought in terms of gear, pet/weapon selection, and tactics - i'd only have an issue if it became like doom where it was pointless for anyone but a sampire to even bother with the DF.
My biggest disappointment over the entire thing is that it makes Mervyn happy. That dude just loves to stomp on everyone elses enjoyment. I can adapt to whatever gameplay changes go in, but that part really grinds my gears.
Regarding the idea that people should abandon tamers and just take sampires because they're more efficient, that's a non starter to me. I recently made a sampire and am actually really enjoying it - but i also realize that not everybody wants to go that route, and endgame content should really be doable across all of the viable pvm builds, even if some are more or less efficient than others. A lot of people really enjoy playing tamers, put a lot of time and effort into building their pets and customizing them for different content, and using them in it - i dont think its right to ask them to throw all that aside and play a template they dont enjoy in whats supposed to be the most lucrative and fun encounters for long-time players. Properly balanced, it should be challenging but fun for whatever pvm-optimized template you want to bring. I have no issue at all with making the encounter require some forethought in terms of gear, pet/weapon selection, and tactics - i'd only have an issue if it became like doom where it was pointless for anyone but a sampire to even bother with the DF.
My biggest disappointment over the entire thing is that it makes Mervyn happy. That dude just loves to stomp on everyone elses enjoyment. I can adapt to whatever gameplay changes go in, but that part really grinds my gears.
This. That is all.That's just it. I can make a Tamer work on the Dark Father (in a group setting), as I've said - I've used one and gotten looting rights. But I had issues with my giant beetle constantly going after the DF when its leash kicked in (we had more than one DF when we were down there), which is why I ended up using my sampire. For a large group of tamers (or even one), that means more DF, more spawn, and more chaos because pets follow whatever DF they're attacking. If only one has been aggro'd, there's a good chance that the others will flag on the pet after the leash, causing all hell to break loose. THAT is why you do not use tamers on the Dark Father. Sampires can control how many DF's they fight at once (and prevent spawn from getting out of hand by killing it quickly), instead of causing massive chaos, large amounts of spawn, and repeated player/pet deaths.
It's the same in Shadowguard. I didn't know how much spawn I would generate, but I knew in advance not to let it get out of hand, and adjusted my tactics accordingly. I just saw Virtuebane, and it was rough - it's not something you'd be able to do if multi-clienting by yourself.
Unlike the rest of you, I get to kill him 10 times a night, that keeps me in a good place.
Darn near enough motivation to get me to learn to pvpUnlike the rest of you, I get to kill him 10 times a night, that keeps me in a good place.
Kill him once or twice more for me would you?Unlike the rest of you, I get to kill him 10 times a night, that keeps me in a good place.
...wow I never thought of that. I think I have enough UO wealth to pay for a hit or two myself......
I'll sort something, watch this space....wow I never thought of that. I think I have enough UO wealth to pay for a hit or two myself......