Trammies won? :(

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

There are no "Trammies" where I play. What are you?

[/ QUOTE ] Siege is full of trammies...


(DEV TEAM)EA adding super dragons just goes to show how much disrespect they have for <font color="blue"> open</font> <font color="green">balanced</font> <font color="red">pvp</font> in <font color="yellow">UO... </font>

 

[Sneaky Que]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

When UO was the number 1 MMO in the world (1997-2000), ya know the title held by World of Warcraft ATM? Guess [censored] what.... NO TRAMMEL.

[/ QUOTE ]

And MOST importantly:

NO COMPETITION

Oh...until Everquest came along in 2000 or so...WHICH HAD NO NON-CON PvP...NONE...ZERO...AND SURPASSED UO's "#1" Subscription totals WITHIN SIX MONTHS.

Sheesh.


[/ QUOTE ]

No competition doesn't change the fact that no Trammel worked and people were playing it, liked it, were addicted to it, and continue to like it to this very day (in huge numbers), in places that cannot be discussed here.

As to EQ? I have not played EQ, so I cannot really comment on it, may be a good may may not who knows, but I would highly doubt that EQ surpassed UO's subscriptions based purely on the game having no non-conc PvP, its umm probably todo with umm... it BEING A 3D GAME, 2nd GEN MMO. UO is a/thee 1st Gen MMO. As described here.


<blockquote><hr>


Talk about way flawed logic on your part, along with a HEFTY set o' Blinders, there Sneaky.


[/ QUOTE ]

Flawed logic? Sorry I was there, I know that no Trammel worked. In 1998 when I started playing UO Britannia worked, and a lot better than Tram/Fel.

<blockquote><hr>


Not a cogent way to argue your point, I must say.


[/ QUOTE ]

SOMETIMES A LITTLE BIT OF BOLD IS THE ONY WAY YOU GET PEOPLE TO GET THE POINT!!11!!1111 OMG!

<blockquote><hr>


Oh...and in closing:

There IS no "Non-Consensual" PvP in WoW...the #1 MMO EVAH!!


[/ QUOTE ]

Number 1 by only subscriptions, as far as a game goes, WoW FTL

need more examples? Britanny Spears, MySpace, Youtube, etc... just because something is 'the most popular' doesn't make it the best. *not saying they arnt good, just not 'the best' the 'best' is subjective, so arguing about it is pointless, see "Thankyou For Smoking"*

Wow, tangent sry

<blockquote><hr>


You MUST be one side, or the other, and can ONLY kill "Your Side" in a Duel...so even there...not correct about the Non-Con.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm really not sure what your on about here.

 

[imported_ParadoxUO]

<blockquote><hr>

You do realize you have a better chance of talking logic to a wall, right?

Non-consensual PvP was what made this game so great. Player justice. The simple combat system. We went from a system that had hundreds of thousands of players (in an age when computers weren't a dime a dozen) to one that I would wildly guess is less than half that.

Among those half are all the cheaters, scripters, and "businesses" that leech off the requirement that every play have top notch items that were (up until recently) available only to those who could spend countless hours in doom etc...

The item based game (IE Age of Shadows) decimated any hope that UO had. The tide is already beginning to turn. I suspect after they flood the market with all these high end items, they'll be craftable with UO:SA.

Then we're virtually right back where we started.

Hopefully minus lots of bugs.

Maybe they learned their lesson...

[/ QUOTE ]


My feelings exactly ... but from what I read it took years to get here.

Artefacts= common
Runics= common
High end items = common

most of the "black market" economy under siege... and folk trying to make a sale fast before leaving ship...

These are good days for UO.

 

[Surgeries]

<blockquote><hr>

Surgies, you really shouldn't be so upset that you were wrong

Nobody likes a sore loser!


[/ QUOTE ]

Not upset...not the one using unprovoked ALL CAPS BOLD TEXT in my posts, to explain a well known point.

Pssst...declaring yourself a winner, with no facts means nothing...on to the meat...

<blockquote><hr>

You still have done nothing to show how focusing on Non-Con PvP has been successful for Ultima Online.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes...I have. That is precisely what I have shown...and also, along with that, shown that no OTHER company, with notably very, very few exceptions, when compared to the majority, DO focus on Non-Con PvP. And as I told you earlier...there is a very good logical reason, that you simply pick up blinders, put them on, and say "Nuh-Uh!!"


So be it.

I am the one playing a game with a choice. MILLIONS of people play a game with absolute choice.

You, and a few others, are the ones living in the past, and trying to regain days gone by, that shall likely never be again.

I have said my piece.

I don't need to decide winner or loser. The Dev Teams of comapnies like Sony and Blizzard have done that, by THEIR choices, of the types of games THEY produce, based on what THEY used as their market determinations.

So...live in the past...wish upon those "Glory Days". Do that in one hand...

Spit in the other.

See which one fills up the fastest.

<blockquote><hr>

So much anger, so much hate... damn that rap musik!

[/ QUOTE ]

I know it bothers a lot of the posters here that your posts dispay that which you describe...many have already told you so. I know it bothers me...so just reach over, and push that button marked "Off" on your Boom Box...do it now.

It's OK...I won't think any less of your posts if you eliminated those charateristics from them.

In fact. I couldn't think less of your posts, anyway.

 

[Surgeries]

<blockquote><hr>

No competition doesn't change the fact that no Trammel worked and people were playing it, liked it, were addicted to it, and continue to like it to this very day (in huge numbers), in places that cannot be discussed here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes...it does. As SOON as competition came...the competition offering exactly what Sosaria didn't, surpassed a two year old game's numbers in 6 months. Six Months...by a WIDE margin. Yep. It did matter. It worked "The Best" when there was no one to compare it to. Then, it fell into the dust of way more successful games, and has been in decline ever since, with games offering ONLY consensual or nO PvP surpassing it handily.

It did, and does, matter, Sneaky.

<blockquote><hr>

Flawed logic? Sorry I was there, I know that no Trammel worked. In 1998 when I started playing UO Britannia worked, and a lot better than Tram/Fel.



[/ QUOTE ]

I played Beta...so did my wife. We, and our friends that played, were as close to quitting, just prior to Trammel, than we could have come. Many had already left for EQ.

You are still wearing those blinders?

Tsk Tsk...good thing EA/Origin wasn't. Too bad they did Trammel so poorly, but it was absolutely needed...or at least the people with actual access to actual subscriber numbers and interviews thought so.

Unlike you and your friends...that had their "Fun" curtailed because of decisions made by people who knew better.

<blockquote><hr>

Number 1 by only subscriptions, as far as a game goes, WoW FTL

[/ QUOTE ]

As UO was...before many others passed it by. But YOU hold up those subscriptions, prior to UO getting WTFPWNED by EQ and the rest as "Proof Conclusive", that UO with Non-Con WAS "Da Bomb". Hardly convincing.

<blockquote><hr>

need more examples? Britanny Spears, MySpace, Youtube, etc...

[/ QUOTE ]

Those aren't valid comparisons...I am comparing MMOs to MMOs...you are...comparing...Internet Sites and Teen Phenoms...to MMOs?

Hmmm...as I said...not a cogent way to prove your point...

<blockquote><hr>

just because something is 'the most popular' doesn't make it the best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Precisely...nail hit head on. Like how UO was very popular, until games with choices came along...then UO...not so much. Because it didn't offer a choice to escape the rampant griefing...until poorly done Trammel. As poorly done as it was...you wouldn't likely even be playing that UO today...at all.

<blockquote><hr>

I'm really not sure what your on about here.

[/ QUOTE ]

That much was obvious form the very beginning of your post.

I was describing the difference in WoW PvP rules, and UO's.

Go back and re-read it...you will hopefully see it, then.

 

[Guest]

If you notice the pink, that is ultima, and if you look at mid '02- mid '03
you notice it starts to fall off, this is after 5 years, people didnt just get tired, something changed....... what happened? i dont think this was tram or fel, allthough i do have feelings about that one, i think that this was sometime around Pub 16

comments anyone?

 

[Sneaky Que]

<blockquote><hr>



Yes...it does. As SOON as competition came...the competition offering exactly what Sosaria didn't, surpassed a two year old game's numbers in 6 months. Six Months...by a WIDE margin. Yep. It did matter. It worked "The Best" when there was no one to compare it to. Then, it fell into the dust of way more successful games, and has been in decline ever since, with games offering ONLY consensual or nO PvP surpassing it handily.

It did, and does, matter, Sneaky.


[/ QUOTE ]

So one would think that offering conc PvP (aka Trammel) would of fixed this no? Your not fooling anybody with this rubbish, Trammel was not necessary, not now, not then, not ever. By your logic every time some competition happens between businesses (UO vs EQ) the party that has the least amount of sales should instantly copy the other?

Answer this, do you think that EQ was a more 'successful' game than UO just because of anything PvP related?

<blockquote><hr>


I played Beta...so did my wife. We, and our friends that played, were as close to quitting, just prior to Trammel, than we could have come. Many had already left for EQ.


[/ QUOTE ]

You should have quit, and not ruined this game. If you love EQ so much (as you seem to) then why don't you go play that instead of ruining the game that others enjoy playing?

<blockquote><hr>


You are still wearing those blinders?


[/ QUOTE ]

...got 20/20 vision mate, thanks anyway.

<blockquote><hr>


Tsk Tsk...good thing EA/Origin wasn't. Too bad they did Trammel so poorly, but it was absolutely needed...or at least the people with actual access to actual subscriber numbers and interviews thought so.

Unlike you and your friends...that had their "Fun" curtailed because of decisions made by people who knew better.


[/ QUOTE ]

I thought computer games were meant to be fun?

<blockquote><hr>


As UO was...before many others passed it by. But YOU hold up those subscriptions, prior to UO getting WTFPWNED by EQ and the rest as "Proof Conclusive", that UO with Non-Con WAS "Da Bomb". Hardly convincing.


[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I make referance to UO's subscriptions pre-Trammel is because THEY PROVE that Trammel was not needed. UO was extremely healthy before and after EQ showed up. In fact UO's subscriptions did not decline untill 2001.
I trust you can read charts, yes?

<blockquote><hr>


Those aren't valid comparisons...I am comparing MMOs to MMOs...you are...comparing...Internet Sites and Teen Phenoms...to MMOs?

Hmmm...as I said...not a cogent way to prove your point...



[/ QUOTE ]

I was using them as examples of things that are popular but cruddy (like WoW), seems you missed the point.

<blockquote><hr>


Precisely...nail hit head on. Like how UO was very popular, until games with choices came along...then UO...not so much. Because it didn't offer a choice to escape the rampant griefing...until poorly done Trammel. As poorly done as it was...you wouldn't likely even be playing that UO today...at all.


[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, 'games with choices' like WoW you mean? haha what a joke! even the way templates are setup in that game lacks choice! BTW PvP doesn't = greifing just because you can't compete.

Mate, open your eyes, the proof that Pre-Ren UO works exists right now. Why would people setup their own freeshards that have more players than Atlantic on them if it didnt? Oops...

<blockquote><hr>


I was describing the difference in WoW PvP rules, and UO's.

Go back and re-read it...you will hopefully see it, then.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I got your pont clearly, its something along the lines of 'I &lt;3 Trammel' with a lot of made up BS included for good measure.

 

[imported_ParadoxUO]

I have been talking with alot of folk about it and this is what i gathered...

Some believe the game became elitist and only a few could have a chance at the top tier items... those few used all means possible to get an unfair advantage and for many years they hacked, scripted and cheated till they got most artefacts, powerscrolls, castles and keeps, quest runics and even sanctuary quest items... unless you cheated you could not beat a script idocer, without scripting you could not compete with the bots... so folk left.

Some believe that the game should not be item based... and some changes and insurance ruined a part of it... and they left.

Others believe there should be only one facet... some defend a Trammel Facet and a pvp switch, others a Fell facet and non-consentual pvp... so some left.

While others got hacked and lost all their rares and collectors items and there was nothing done for them... so they departed.

Some want fast gains... uo isnt like that... so they come and go.

Some arent ready for the complexity of uo... so they come and go.

Some know alot about economics... they take a look at uo and see folk selling stuff for real $... knowing $ equals corruption... they wisely depart.


Some see uo for what it is... they fall in love with it... and they stay.
(Mules till the end, UNITE!... no derrogatory meaning)


I forgot! Some got tired of all the speedhacking and cheating that most of the huge fell wolfish guilds that prowl the champ areas and summon the harrowers and run ghost cams... thus controlling the ps/stats scrolls market and selling them for real$ making it a monthly income... so many departed.

 

[Silly Seadog]

Arrrr, ye can ne'er make everyone happy, but EA seems to have a talent fer makin' no one happy!

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

<blockquote><hr>


what happened? i dont think this was tram or fel, allthough i do have feelings about that one, i think that this was sometime around Pub 16 comments anyone?


[/ QUOTE ]

I know! I know!

The game became heavily item based and complicated. It has nothing to do with Trammel.

In short, the Age of Shadows ruined the game that so many loved. They're all on Free Shards now.

Classic shard would bring 'em back...

My cookie, please?

 

[Guest]

alot of people seem to think it is just a few people griping about something they dont like when they bring up the topic of publish 16, and how it brought down the game, i am not going to say that, but the chart up top is a non-biased "&lt;--- probably not spelled correctly..." outside source, which shows what the population did after it, how can you possibly dispute those facts? will you hold to your pride and not admit it, or will you give in, just this once, and say there may be some validity to that claim?

oh yea, then there are those that say that it happened, get over it, and i hate to say it, but look at the ramp downward, if i fall back on irl

world history, alot of bad things happened, but if we accepted things like WWII and just let it happen, where would we be today? If we dont do something, that ramp is going to keep going down till those who love the changes, and those who dont lose 10 years of their life with UO going out the window.....

that entire statement is not a hopefull remark, it is based on the facts that are provided to us.... yes, change is good, but please dont just say all change, leave it to some change, not all.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Surgies, you really shouldn't be so upset that you were wrong

Nobody likes a sore loser!


[/ QUOTE ]

Not upset...not the one using unprovoked ALL CAPS BOLD TEXT in my posts, to explain a well known point.

Pssst...declaring yourself a winner, with no facts means nothing...on to the meat...

[/ QUOTE ]

Pssst... I never declared myself a winner but, simply you, a loser. Nice try tho!


but go right ahead and post another book about something that has absolutely nothing to do with the argument...


The sheer volume of the non-topic/discussion related crap you're posting is just one fact of many in my arsenal of surgeries just got wtfuxpwnedintehbuttox power cannon I've obliterated you with.

But by all means keep dancing puppet!! keep dancing!

We enjoy the comical entertainment you're providing!

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

No competition doesn't change the fact that no Trammel worked and people were playing it, liked it, were addicted to it, and continue to like it to this very day (in huge numbers), in places that cannot be discussed here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes...it does. As SOON as competition came...the competition offering exactly what Sosaria didn't, surpassed a two year old game's numbers in 6 months. Six Months...by a WIDE margin. Yep. It did matter. It worked "The Best" when there was no one to compare it to. Then, it fell into the dust of way more successful games, and has been in decline ever since, with games offering ONLY consensual or nO PvP surpassing it handily.

It did, and does, matter, Sneaky.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, a lot of Asians bought a game Sony developed...?

Again, you offer up a buttload of non-correlated things trying to make a correlation... good job on that FAIL too sir!


How do you explain the steady growth of UO while it was a Non-Con oriented game? Oh... wait... you can't!

How do you explain in your *theory* that there are PLENTY of other Consensual PvP games that floundered...? Oh... wait... you can't!

You're so full of bull-[censored] it's nothing but funny, buddy!

Because EQ did good and because it was a Non-Consensual PvP Game... that means that UO had to be a Non-Consensual PvP game to do good?

None of the evidence supports this claim and quite frankly, you look like a nin-com-poop for thinking you're getting anywhere with any of us who can read past your 3rd grade english attempts at masking the issue at hand.

Again, tell me why UO hasn't had uber success in subscription numbers even though it's been focused on non-Consensual PvP!?!?!?!?!?

Why Surgeries...??

Why?!?!?


*awaits your reply citing how good WoW and EQ does as an answer*


nice try, but no soup 4 you!

 

[imported_ParadoxUO]

Create a GATE... down in Hythloth, Felluca (or any other spot where a passerby wont randomly find it)... allow folk to do naked dungeon runs and jump into the gate. Link it to a brave new world...

- no insurance
- no blessed items

Call it "DeadLands"...

Let the games begin!



OH!!! WEIRD THOUGHT!

Make the Stygean Abyss like that!!!

 

[Cybrdragon]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>


what happened? i dont think this was tram or fel, allthough i do have feelings about that one, i think that this was sometime around Pub 16 comments anyone?


[/ QUOTE ]

I know! I know!

The game became heavily item based and complicated. It has nothing to do with Trammel.

In short, the Age of Shadows ruined the game that so many loved. They're all on Free Shards now.

Classic shard would bring 'em back...

My cookie, please?

[/ QUOTE ]



Also....


"alot of people seem to think it is just a few people griping about something they dont like when they bring up the topic of publish 16, and how it brought down the game, i am not going to say that, but the chart up top is a non-biased "&lt;--- probably not spelled correctly..." outside source, which shows what the population did after it, how can you possibly dispute those facts? will you hold to your pride and not admit it, or will you give in, just this once, and say there may be some validity to that claim?

oh yea, then there are those that say that it happened, get over it, and i hate to say it, but look at the ramp downward, if i fall back on irl world history, alot of bad things happened, but if we accepted things like WWII and just let it happen, where would we be today? If we dont do something, that ramp is going to keep going down till those who love the changes, and those who dont lose 10 years of their life with UO going out the window.....

that entire statement is not a hopefull remark, it is based on the facts that are provided to us.... yes, change is good, but please dont just say all change, leave it to some change, not all."



I believe that these two posts basically some up what happened to the game. I know from personal experience, I lost the most friends and fellow players after the very drastic changes of pub 16 and AOS changed the very nature of the game beyond repair. UO has never been the same game since these changes. And I don't think there's a way to change it back. There may be a way to adjust it, but I don't think the devs have the manpower, budget, or vision to ever fix it now. That's why so many people have left. They just lost faith and gave up.

In reading these posts and thinking about pre-pub 16... I get a feeling of longing and loss in my gut for those days. They really were my happiest days in UO. I just don't get the same thrill anymore playing the game. And I really miss all my UO friends from those days. *sigh* So much has been lost. I don't think I have the motivation to keep trying to find something again that will never be.

 

[imported_ParadoxUO]

<blockquote><hr>

They just lost faith and gave up.

[/ QUOTE ]

You didnt... maybe you have the solution to it and you didnt know!

 

[BajaElladan]

Many, including myself, have been told repeatedly that the "only real excitement" is with player versus player combat. Felucca has that. If that is the sole source of excitement, AND you already have that in Felucca, what MORE do you need???

If you choose Felucca but choose NOT to be everREDy, you have all the content of every other facet. It is only if you choose to spend all or most of your life marked "red" as a murderer or malefactor that YOU place limits and restrictions upon yourself.

Even then, you have Mugen or Siege Perilous. So many choices, so little time.

Yet with all those choices, you choose instead to be unfulfilled, unhappy, and always asking for more.

I pity you and your view of our virtual world.

Elladan of Baja

p.s. I thank goodness, God, and the Dev Team we "Trammies" WON

 

[Cybrdragon]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

They just lost faith and gave up.

[/ QUOTE ]

You didnt... maybe you have the solution to it and you didnt know!

[/ QUOTE ]


Well, you're right, I didn't at that time. I guess I was still too immersed in the game, with leading guilds and such, and I did have some friends that stayed. The game continued to be somewhat fun for me for a couple of years after AOS I think. But eventually, in an item-based system with few additions over time, people will get bored with all the shiny new stuff. The item chase for me has gotten really stale now. It's just a game of chasing your tail and never really getting anywhere. But really, most MMORPG's have this problem eventually. I would love to see a group of devs build a game that could last indefinitely with some sort of really novel structure to it that keeps it from getting old. I think UO could have been like this, but it's too late.

At this point, I haven't really played the game for any amount of time for over two years now. Every time I log in, I consider quitting. I guess now I'm in that category of people that are not really having fun with the game, but keep waiting to see if it gets any better. I think eventually, all of the people in this category will quit.

So I guess I had a solution for a while, but now I'm really at a loss. And I do really miss those days when the game was so exciting to me. *frowns* Maybe it's just a case of everything gets old with time. I don't know.

 

[imported_ParadoxUO]

Join me on Catskills for a night of fun and adventures.

Then you will see UO... my way... fresh!

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

<blockquote><hr>


At this point, I haven't really played the game for any amount of time for over two years now. Every time I log in, I consider quitting. I guess now I'm in that category of people that are not really having fun with the game, but keep waiting to see if it gets any better. I think eventually, all of the people in this category will quit.


[/ QUOTE ]

I fall in that category as well despite my recent activity, and I know many others who do. When they all quit, the game is dead.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Many, including myself, have been told repeatedly that the "only real excitement" is with player versus player combat. Felucca has that. If that is the sole source of excitement, AND you already have that in Felucca, what MORE do you need???

If you choose Felucca but choose NOT to be everREDy, you have all the content of every other facet. It is only if you choose to spend all or most of your life marked "red" as a murderer or malefactor that YOU place limits and restrictions upon yourself.

Even then, you have Mugen or Siege Perilous. So many choices, so little time.

Yet with all those choices, you choose instead to be unfulfilled, unhappy, and always asking for more.

I pity you and your view of our virtual world.

Elladan of Baja

p.s. I thank goodness, God, and the Dev Team we "Trammies" WON

[/ QUOTE ]

I may be mistaken, but

Reged: 06/02/03
Plus Member since
Dec 12, 2003
Posts: 1272
Loc: Trinsic, Baja, Sosaria

not to hit on your personal game time, or anything else, but i would love to see a world where everyone has their things, i am just pointing out the fact that those that dont pvp, or venture into fel griped about losing things when they went there, even after there was trammel, there was no point in insurance in tram, and most people in fel dont want it. and the reason i pointed out your registration date and stuff was to ask, were you even there before Publish 16?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

There are no "Trammies" where I play. What are you?

[/ QUOTE ]
Sometimes I sneak into your place just so that I could say there was a Trammy there.

 

[Stigmatas]

pffft. his reg date is only a bit after mine, and mine is not even near back as far as UO goes....and I've played since 1997.......your point?

I remember when ALL monsters spawned in the world at the same time. And GM's coming across with system messages saying "you need to find somewhere safe...fast!"

I remember rampant pk'ing.

I remember tents.

I remember the idea that monsters would spawn on a dynamic system. Kill all the goats or deer in an area, and a dragon would attack a town. Or something to that effect. That never happened, because players slaughtered everything in sight and the system was never viable.

I remember being on stratics before the official forums were closed down. Then the mass exodus of people to these boards.

I remember being quiet as a mouse for the first several years on ANY forum because I had better things to do. Like figure out UO!

I remember house keys, and house thieving. Lame.

I remember Buc's Den naked hally pvp'ers. (I did my best impression of one

)

I also remember most of my old guild leaving UO because everywhere they went (just about) they could not enjoy their game time hunting anything because of rampant pk'ing. While some of it was fun....enough is enough. Consentual pvp is where it's at. Choices. Choices are good. And choices are what a player has now.

You retro folks need to go look around trammel and figure out that a lot of people simply don't like pvp. End of list. End of discussion. Just as many people quit ( and IMO, more so) because of griefing...and yes I believe non-con pvp opens up the can of worms called griefing, as there were people who quit because they could not kill everyone anymore. I say good riddance.

 

[Stigmatas]

Oh and as a side note, look at that graph that everyone likes to post every now and again as the holy grail. Even if we can believe that thing, ( I dunno...maybe we can) then LOOK at peak subscription #'s. That would be after Trammel...

mmmmkkkkk



So, yea, trammies won. Rightfully so.

 

[imported_mr.blackmage]

Don't you think that the increase of computer and internet usage would have a little bit to do with the rise in subscriptions too, for all games? Forget about the graph and trying to relate it to one single instance in this games life. There are a LOT of variables out there, and my guess as to why EQ did so well right away is that there were a heckuva lot more people that had computers capable of playing the game.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Don't you think that the increase of computer and internet usage would have a little bit to do with the rise in subscriptions too, for all games? Forget about the graph and trying to relate it to one single instance in this games life. There are a LOT of variables out there, and my guess as to why EQ did so well right away is that there were a heckuva lot more people that had computers capable of playing the game.

[/ QUOTE ]
It did well because it had more to offer the new internet audience. UO was popular because it was the only choice for a while. Tram or no Tram the result would have been the same or predictably worse. The better graphics and LOADS of content was a big selling point for EQ. THey added content monthly. For free. Then they had yearly additions to the game that not only had substance but a whole story to go with them that pertained the world of EQ.

We all have to face it. Ultima is an old franchise and trammel was an attempt to keep the ones who wanted safety in their world from leaving to go to one that did. The further decline of UO has little to do with the decision to create trammel. It has everything to do with new games with better graphics and better content and customer support coming into the picture.

If UO wants to bring back subscribers it needs to put more effort back into the game. A couple classic server would be an interesting investment. No promises would need to be made and if it didn't go well no biggy. They also need to break this 2 year with no major addition cycle, as it's killing the game slowly and has nothing to do with consensual or nonconsensual pvp.

 

[imported_Skrag]

RTLFC

Attention PVPtards. Keep crying about how some UO gankz0r crap from 8 years ago was the SUPER BEST PVP EVER. Nobody cares. Nobody is going back to Felucca. Nobody is making games like that. It's all PVE and light WoW-style sport PVP from now on.

 

[Guest]

no worries skraq, i believe that too, which is why towards the end of that chart, uo is going down hill, you see, people like you that say accept the game as it is, are the same ones crying for change when it came out, or the ones that just started playing after the changes..... make sense of that....

 

[Sneaky Que]

<blockquote><hr>

RTLFC

Attention PVPtards. Keep crying about how some UO gankz0r crap from 8 years ago was the SUPER BEST PVP EVER. Nobody cares. Nobody is going back to Felucca. Nobody is making games like that. It's all PVE and light WoW-style sport PVP from now on.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeh... like the new MMO Fury, it is 100% PvP, NO PvM. Want more? Check out the new game that our very own Devs (Mythic) are making! WAR, seems to be heavily PvP based to me (like it should be its Warhammer after all)!

PvM can never compete with PvP, well maybe once the world gets to a stage with AI similar to the "I Robot" movie/book. Then maybe but believe it or not humans are smarter than AI, although reading this forum sometimes makes me think otherwise.

 

[Sneaky Que]

<blockquote><hr>


p.s. I thank goodness, God, and the Dev Team we "Trammies" WON

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to clear something up, wile trammies may have gotten Trammel, and thus they think they 'won' let me tell you that NOBODY won from this, in fact UO the game lost big time. UO started out being a revolutionary game, then it started to copy others.

Here is some food for thought;

During the Second Age (UO's golden days), the subscriber numbers were about the same, if not higher than they are right now, except there was one huge difference, less shards. Imagine UO's current subscriber base, playing on less shards with only Britannia (as it was then) and t2a areas. Because that is how it was, a HEALTHY, WORKING and most importantly FUN game.


2000 was a bad year for UO. From Wikipedia:

<blockquote><hr>


January

Ultima Online expands into Australia with the Oceania server, UO's 21st shard.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, this is actually great! I play Oceania lol so I'm not complaining on this one

<blockquote><hr>


February

The invasion of Trinsic. A massive army of undead laid siege to the once peaceful city of Trinsic. Due to the overwhelming odds, the dark army managed to conquer the city under the leadership of Juo'nar and the Dark Mistress Minax. All hope seemed to be lost, but noble Britannians from all over rallied together and reclaimed the city from the clutches of evil!

Ultima Online achieves 150,000 subscribers.


[/ QUOTE ]

All good here so far, 150k subs goin strong, an who doesn't like a good ol' invasion? Sounds like UO is in a really strong, position yeh?

<blockquote><hr>


Lord British disappears. Rumors fly on the wind about the disappearance of the King. Some claim he was abducted by mongbats, while others insist that it was the work of more malevolent forces.


[/ QUOTE ]

....OH [censored]!! I WONDER WHY HE LEFT! *cough* Not lookin so good anymore folks, but wait its bout to get worse.

<blockquote><hr>


May

Renaissance. Ultima Online's second expansion marked the beginning of a new era in Britannia. With the splitting of the lands into the facets of Trammel and Felucca, players could choose their geography based on their play style.


[/ QUOTE ]

...and thus the community was destroyed. Put aside the play styles for 1 second, but as an 'expansion' this really sucked. What kind of half assed attempt of making an 'expansion' is making an (almost) exact copy of what you already have, then splitting it in two? Thats not a [censored] expansion, thats a clone! At the very least they could of at least put some god-damn effort into it, if they were going to do it at all they should of done it properly and made Fel and Tram completely different. No wonder Garriott left, I think I would have as well.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

<blockquote><hr>


yeh... like the new MMO Fury, it is 100% PvP, NO PvM. Want more? Check out the new game that our very own Devs (Mythic) are making! WAR, seems to be heavily PvP based to me (like it should be its Warhammer after all)!

[/ QUOTE ]

heheheh.. okay ... yeah ...got us all

FURY is gonna make someone a ton of money ...
hehehehehe

btw ...just how Mmo is it?(couldn't find any mention ... didn't look to hard)

hehehehehe
FURY
the WoW killer

hehehehehe

 

[Sneaky Que]

Your right, Fury is free (although you get more if you subscribe and pay $). Doesn't change the fact that PvP MMOs are out there, and people wants to play them.

How MMO is it? Well, considering that it fits the criteria (its an MMO, by definition of the term) I would say its errr very MMO? I would describe it as a 'short term' MMO, the kind that you can play 10mins a day (and archive something), it really doesn't have a great deal of depth to it, but this doesn't make it any less fun. Think of WoW like graphics (minus the cartoonish nature of WarCraft, it looks good), meets UO PvP (UO is known for its fast PvP), meets Counter Strike with magic bundled into an MMO and you have Fury. The item system also slightly resembles AoS, except decent items are quite easy to get in a relatively short amount of time.

I enjoy playing fury, its not a bad game, nothing spectacular either, it is however probably the best 'free' MMO out there at the moment (with the exception of some UO free shards). Still has nothing on UO though.

 

[Guest]

RTLPFC

Bringing other games to the table where there popularity doesn't hold a candle to the big names on the market isn't helping your argument.

As much as I hate to admit it, non-con pvp is just not as popular. People want to have fun when they play games and not be frustrated to the point of pounding their desks. It's why games such as EVE Online or Shadowbane, which offer non-con pvp and major consequences for dying, just don't have very high subscription numbers when compared to their consensual brethren.

People don't like losing things they took time out of their personal lives to get. Why do you think nearly every popular game on the market is consensually pvp driven?

While I agree that the implementation of Trammel could have been better, it was a necessary addition. It may have been more effective if done in the same fashion that other games do it via separate servers but that is not how it turned out. I wish I could find the interview that was held with Garriot but in it he stated how the player justice system wasn't working as intended.

Age of Shadows is a different argument altogether but I feel that is what destroyed the magic of Ultima Online, not Trammel.

/edit If you're looking for the culprit of UO's downfall, you need only look at AoS.

 

[imported_Skrag]

<blockquote><hr>

yeh... like the new MMO Fury, it is 100% PvP, NO PvM.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, check out this article. Fury "didn't reach their goals" and the developers were liquidated. LOL. Hey all you developers, go ahead and embrace full-on PVP! You too can produce a flop of a game like Fury and be fired! LOLOL!

<blockquote><hr>

Want more? Check out the new game that our very own Devs (Mythic) are making! WAR, seems to be heavily PvP based to me (like it should be its Warhammer after all)!

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a clone of DAoC PVP. (WoW PVP was mostly a clone of DAoC, at least to start.) It's faction-based and level-segregated. It has absolutely nothing in common with pre-Trammel UO PVP. The sort of PVP you pine for is dead and never coming back.

Try again, newb. The best thing you could probably use as an example is maybe EVE Online, but even that has a sizeable "Trammel" in the form of Empire space, where a majority of players spend their time. And while EVE is a reasonably successful game, it has nowhere near the success of the big fantasy-style lite-PVP games like WoW.

Basically, you fail.

LOL... I still can't believe you brought up Fury... just a few months after all the developers were fired in disgrace... ahahahaha...

 

[Sneaky Que]

How about using UO as an example?

Two Words: Free Shard

This is where the tens of thousands (very possibly hundreds of thousands) of disgruntled UO players have gone so find what they love, Pre-Ren UO.

Tell me, do you think that many of the EA UO shards have an average of 797 players online at any one time? 812, thats how many are playing &lt;insert shard name here&gt; right now (as i type this). Unlike EA they release their sub numbers. Oh and did i mention? No [censored] Trammel LOL These things are easy to find out for yourself, you don't even have to break EA's ToS (just looking at a free shards website is quite, quite legal i think you'll find).

This is the truth of the matter, the cold hard facts that 10 years after it's birth, UO, without Trammel WORKS. It may be an 'Inconvenient Truth' for all you supporters UO-R (if I can steal that phrase for a second

) but it is the truth none the less.

 

[Guest]

There have been over the past 10 yrs. of Ultima Online, too many things that perhaps in hindsight could have been done differently or better.

Something more or less had to be done somehow, when Trammel was created. But it tore apart player run towns, guilds, friendships in game and more separating community. I had wished they had come up with something different or better that could have kept *one community* upon one unique original lands and lost lands, without *mirroring* and cutting everyone into two like they had done. But no one could seem to find any other solution..thus Trammel was created.

Aos turned this game into something it never was nor meant to be.

But prior to that, our *kings* our leaders were removed, one left, one was storylined to *go insane* and end up gone and dead. Those fictional leaders were also our anchors, our rudders, their shields Order and Chaos were as were they part of the very fabric of our pixel world. Removed killed off exiting, we lost both of them, and we lost our very fabric of what this world was also about..our storyline died with the exit of Lord British and the death of Lord Blackthorn. *Any story lines since minus the fatherheads or figure heads of those two has been puny in comparison to *the giants* written into the tales of Sosaria Britannia.

So over the years, what we had was lost, redone, rehued, randomised and taken from the fabric that was Ultima Online............who won............ ? Declining player base over the years for whatever reasons and all reasons.........the customer base has dwindled and keeps dwindling. . those of us remaining be we in trammel felucca, regular shards or Siege, keep hangin on, cuz we love this world or what is left of it hoping for a cure, hoping someone in charge will see the gem it has been was and maybe still yet can become if it is given the truth, love and attention and fixes it genuinely deserves...it could truelly be a kingdom reborn, if someone would let them all really give it the time and fixes and solutions Ultima Online honestly deserves. Will it get what it needs ?

Guess we still wait and hope yet, one by one sticking around hoping UO gets what it needs and deserves to be on top again, don't we !! ?

No point in us all arguing over who's all to blame, think it over cuz, WE can not fix it it is not within our power to do that, &amp; arguing here bout it all, is pointless and...they EA, have to do achieve or come up with those solutions or cures for this world of Ultima Online game, and UO EA customer base, or not. Be careful what WE ask for..cuz...

Ya dont know what ya got...... till it's gone !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A0FxTDeklM

 

[Guest]

When UO started looking towards other games for inspiration it lost its uniqueness.

AOS was the beginning.

But yes, I feel it was a fair price to pay to help the game succeed and in this business, that's the bottom line as I'm sure you know. One community would have been impossible because there is no such thing. The majority spoke and the majority got it what wanted.

<blockquote><hr>

Aos turned this game into something it never was nor meant to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree wholeheartedly.

Ultima Online can have another golden age but that is not for us to decide. Let's just hope the powers that be know what they're doing. In the end, that's all we can do. A little patience can help. Eight years will teach you that.

 

[Sneaky Que]

<blockquote><hr>


Haha, check out this article. Fury "didn't reach their goals" and the developers were liquidated. LOL. Hey all you developers, go ahead and embrace full-on PVP! You too can produce a flop of a game like Fury and be fired! LOLOL!


[/ QUOTE ]

You would think that a UO player (if you are indeed one) would know by now that JUST because something bad happens to a games Dev team (see 10 year history of UO REev team) that doesn't necessarily mean the game is a 'flop.' Fury the game is quite healthy (since its mostly free).

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

When UO started looking towards other games for inspiration it lost its uniqueness.

AOS was the beginning.

[/ QUOTE ]

AoS was the beginning?

You do realized they scrambled and put together Trammel in the crappiest fashion because they panic'd a lil over EQ's performance?

Every expansion after t2a is pretty much trying to inject the flavor of another game into UO. It [censored] blows that we didn't have the creativity to expand on our game we have to assimilate others and call it "new"

It why Kingdom Reborns UI sucks so damn much.

 

[imported_Skrag]

<blockquote><hr>

How about using UO as an example?

Two Words: Free Shard

[/ QUOTE ]

Free shards are free. Most of them also have little or no enforcement against unattended macroers, which artificially inflates their apparent "online" population. Attention developers, you too can make an MMO with as many as several hundred players, as long as you never make them log out and never charge them any money! Man Sneaky, your pitch gets better all the time. LOL.

<blockquote><hr>

JUST because something bad happens to a games Dev team (see 10 year history of UO REev team) that doesn't necessarily mean the game is a 'flop.'

[/ QUOTE ]

The situations aren't even REMOTELY in the same league.

UO still has developers, they've just had to move offices and share resources with a couple games owned by the same company. Besides which, the game has been out for a little over ten years now. Really, UO could have shut down and died years ago and it still would have gone into the history books as a success.

Meanwhile, Fury came out in October and everyone was fired by December. That's an entire two months between release day and "EVERYONE WHO MADE THIS GAME, GET THE F**K OUT!" That isn't just failure, that's SPECTACULAR failure. LOL.

Fury... ahahah... give up, kid. The sort of "I killed him while he was farming orcs and took his armor!" PVP you crave is dead, dead, dead.

 

[imported_ElRay]

<blockquote><hr>

The sort of "I killed him while he was farming orcs and took his armor!" PVP you crave is dead, dead, dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh well, but if you come my way in fel, I still get to kill your trammy ass, then tell you trammel is that way------------&gt;

and if/when this game dies I always have hardcore pvp(which entails armor/weapons dropping) in Lineage II..hell a few million ppl play 1 and 2 gee golly! who wouldve thunk that all them thur people would play such a hardcore pvp game!! wow the worlds not filled with wussies after all!

skrag go hug your stuffy dwagon in tram sir

oh and cant wait for age of conan!!!!

 

[Sneaky Que]

<blockquote><hr>


Free shards are free. Most of them also have little or no enforcement against unattended macroers, which artificially inflates their apparent "online" population.


[/ QUOTE ]

Apart from being free, this is different to EA shards, how?

On a serious note though, your argument is BS, if you knew anything about free shards you would know that many of them have accelerated gaining systems, making it easy to have a complete char in about a day through normal game play. This removes the need to script skills.

Besides, scripters or not, they are still playing the game, WITH NO TRAMMEL.

<blockquote><hr>


Attention developers, you too can make an MMO with as many as several hundred players, as long as you never make them log out and never charge them any money! Man Sneaky, your pitch gets better all the time. LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol so funny how your skirting the issue of PEOPLE PLAYING WITH NO TRAMMEL.

And the numbers I listed were AVERAGES that means that 24/7 there is an AVERAGE of 800 or whatever it was players online at any one time.

That = a huge player base, incase you missed that point too (deliberately or otherwise).

<blockquote><hr>

JUST because something bad happens to a games Dev team (see 10 year history of UO REev team) that doesn't necessarily mean the game is a 'flop.'

[/ QUOTE ]

The situations aren't even REMOTELY in the same league.

UO still has developers, they've just had to move offices and share resources with a couple games owned by the same company. Besides which, the game has been out for a little over ten years now. Really, UO could have shut down and died years ago and it still would have gone into the history books as a success.


[/ QUOTE ]

Recently the Devs have moved offices, yes.

In the past, there have been some shakeups, and even the games creator walked out on EA.

<blockquote><hr>


Meanwhile, Fury came out in October and everyone was fired by December. That's an entire two months between release day and "EVERYONE WHO MADE THIS GAME, GET THE F**K OUT!" That isn't just failure, that's SPECTACULAR failure. LOL.


[/ QUOTE ]

Uhhhh, no, sorry I just logged into Fury and there is a LOT of people playing it. Far more in fact than are online on Oceania right now. If its such a huge failure then why are so many people playing it? Auran stuffed up no doubt about that one, they didnt market the game right, charged to much for it at the start and didn't sell enough copies as a result, since they have introduced the new pricing plans and the free plan the game has flourished.

<blockquote><hr>


Fury... ahahah... give up, kid. The sort of "I killed him while he was farming orcs and took his armor!" PVP you crave is dead, dead, dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can shut your eyes, and cover your ears and scream as loud as you want that Pre-Ren UO is dead, but it won't make the fact that it isn't dead go away.

The evidence is in the people, the ones who have responded to this thread, the ones who still play t2a on free shards. The ones who now play other MMO's that don't satisfy their needs and who long to return to Britannia. The ones who log on when the 'Return to Britannia' program is active, seeking just that, to return to Britannia. But most importantly of all, its the people who still play this wonderful game who still remember what it was like at its best.

I remember.

We understand that Trammel and Felucia will be likely here until UO's demise, we do not agree with what was done, but it is in the past and almost irreversible now. All we ask if for some decent, and fair attention to be given to our play style, for once.

....wait I can hear someone shouting power scrolls at me already...

PS alone don't make up for the endless other things that have been added to Trammel facets. You shout PS? I say WHERE THE [censored] IS THE DOOM IN FEL? eh?

 

[Sneaky Que]

Just remembered! If you need anymore more evidence of UO without Trammel existing today....

You might wanna check this out...

...

Next he will be telling us that SP does not exist either :O

 

[Cybrdragon]

<blockquote><hr>

When UO started looking towards other games for inspiration it lost its uniqueness.

AOS was the beginning.

But yes, I feel it was a fair price to pay to help the game succeed and in this business, that's the bottom line as I'm sure you know. One community would have been impossible because there is no such thing. The majority spoke and the majority got it what wanted.

<blockquote><hr>

Aos turned this game into something it never was nor meant to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree wholeheartedly.

Ultima Online can have another golden age but that is not for us to decide. Let's just hope the powers that be know what they're doing. In the end, that's all we can do. A little patience can help. Eight years will teach you that.

[/ QUOTE ]




I feel in hindsight that UO would have been better off DEAD than copying Diablo/Diablo 2 to such an extent like they did with AOS. I am still shocked when I go back and play Diablo and see THE EXACT SAME NAMES for some of the items/properties that were put into UO. It blows my mind how unoriginal and close to plagiarism those ideas were. *shakes head* I agree, UO completely lost its identity when it started trying to copy other games rather than stick with its own strengths and forge its own path. I really wish they had killed UO and made a UO2 that could compete, instead of making a Diablo clone with AOS. AOS definately changed the game more than anything else. Almost all my friends left after AOS.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

We understand that Trammel and Felucia will be likely here until UO's demise, we do not agree with what was done, but it is in the past and almost irreversible now. All we ask if for some decent, and fair attention to be given to our play style, for once.

[/ QUOTE ]

We want the trammy crap that's spilled over onto our facet removed. We do not want to deal with your no risk give me all the reward loving playstyle. We can't stand it as I'm sure no one dedicated to Trammel can stand ours

We want want your trammy crap where it belongs... satisfying those of you who enjoy it.

<blockquote><hr>

....wait I can hear someone shouting power scrolls at me already...

PS alone don't make up for the endless other things that have been added to Trammel facets. You shout PS? I say WHERE THE [censored] IS THE DOOM IN FEL? eh?

[/ QUOTE ]


On Siege!!!

 

[Guest]

So why is it that EA can never Pop their heads in on these discussions and explain to the overwhelming amount of people why they cant build the game in a way that would double their current population? i am sure they could tell that if they just modified the things in the Felucia facet then a ton of people would gladly pay that monthly fee, i know some that would pay double for the uo they bought in the first place...... or a up to date, non-slaughtered version.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

So why is it that EA can never Pop their heads in on these discussions and explain to the overwhelming amount of people why they cant build the game in a way that would double their current population? i am sure they could tell that if they just modified the things in the Felucia facet then a ton of people would gladly pay that monthly fee, i know some that would pay double for the uo they bought in the first place...... or a up to date, non-slaughtered version.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah dude...

Just to give those who played on Atlantic an idea of who plays freeshards. If you are in any way familiar with this history of the guilds who played that shard... you'd be pretty shocked to find out that a good majority of your friends still play UO... they just simply refuse to play the Trammelized no risk gimme all the reward UO.... we're all paying 10 bucks a month to play.

Let's walk down memory lane shall we?

The Mercks
The Pluggers
Army of Darkness
SSJ
Sooky Sooky
EA2
Farmers and Tailors
SOU
GmX
-X- (X-Roads)
The Trinsic Borrowers
Killer Bees
Evil Bastages
Berserk
Visolara
OoB
qop
6/9 ways to die
run
XL
Suf

You can find people from these guilds (Good chunks of people) Playing UO still to this day... and this is just a roster of those who hate what the Trammy mindset did to Atlantic. The general consensus was that they all left (the final straw that broke the camels back) around publish 16/AoS... when Trammy ideals spilled over into Felucca.

Anyone who actively played UO prior to AoS is probably looking at this post with their jaw stuck to the floor. Players from these these guilds still play UO!!!!


And this list is JUST from Atlantic... can you people imagine what the list looks like if you'd go through all of the shards? I didn't even bother to talk about post-AoS guilds on Atlantic because that's when I removed myself from PvP on that trammy shard and moved to Siege... this list would otherwise be twice as long.


Look at the chart in this thread.... UO has been bleeding dry from the inside out since Age of Shadows...

We UO vet's are sick and tired of waiting and waiting and waiting for someone to make good on promises we were made years and years ago... and for that, Ultima Online loses players every day... and not to WoW.


There is no reason in this world that all these people shouldn't be sharing Sosaria with each and every one of us... no matter what the trammy asshats in this thread say.


This is freaking sad.

 

[Surgeries]

<blockquote><hr>

So why is it that EA can never Pop their heads in on these discussions and explain to the overwhelming amount of people why they cant build the game in a way that would double their current population?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because they actually know how many people, money in hand, want to play that playstyle.

It really isn't that tough to figure out, if you use logic.

Otherwise, all of the Illogical Developers and Game Companies are just turning their back on the sheer volume of paying customers that would line up for Pre-Ren, or anything close to it.

As Sneaky says...shut your eyes, and cover your ears, and keep arguing the same, inane crap you folks have for almost 8 years now.

Maybe...if all of you fall on the ground, and hold your breath...EA/Mythic will start a Pre Ren server!

No...wait...CALL THEM NAMES!!!

LOL...good luck with all that, folks.

Good luck, indeed. You will certainly need it.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

<blockquote><hr>

Your right, Fury is free (although you get more if you subscribe and pay $). Doesn't change the fact that PvP MMOs are out there, and people wants to play them.

How MMO is it? Well, considering that it fits the criteria (its an MMO, by definition of the term) I would say its errr very MMO? I would describe it as a 'short term' MMO, the kind that you can play 10mins a day (and archive something), it really doesn't have a great deal of depth to it, but this doesn't make it any less fun. Think of WoW like graphics (minus the cartoonish nature of WarCraft, it looks good), meets UO PvP (UO is known for its fast PvP), meets Counter Strike with magic bundled into an MMO and you have Fury. The item system also slightly resembles AoS, except decent items are quite easy to get in a relatively short amount of time.

I enjoy playing fury, its not a bad game, nothing spectacular either, it is however probably the best 'free' MMO out there at the moment (with the exception of some UO free shards). Still has nothing on UO though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah! sorry ... though you missed it ... others answered my question ...
I had capitalized the first M of MMO ... to inquire about how Massively multiplayer online it is(was)
Numbers ... like players, servers, continents served ...
How Massively multiplayer online ...

The tons of money aspect ... yeah ... was a trap ...
A FAIR one ... trap wise ... a trap ... none the less.
FAIR in that: equal potential to snap ME ... as it was to snap shut on you.

Your "premise" That Purely PvP themed games can/would be ...THE most succesful
If only they would make one ...

STILL remains "untested"
Money wise ... to be the most succesful ... gonna need beat WoW ... yes?
Number's wise, WoW is still in there ...
Along with Runescape ... *snap!* (There are currently 212244 people playing!)

Caught cha! ...

IF your "proof" (fury) HAD either numbers or money ... erk! I would be wrong ...(slim chance ... I built the trap, but, nonetheless ...could have caught me &lt;&lt;ie. FAIR )

Well, at least you brought a "working example" to the discussion.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

So why is it that EA can never Pop their heads in on these discussions and explain to the overwhelming amount of people why they cant build the game in a way that would double their current population?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because they actually know how many people, money in hand, want to play that playstyle.

It really isn't that tough to figure out, if you use logic.

Otherwise, all of the Illogical Developers and Game Companies are just turning their back on the sheer volume of paying customers that would line up for Pre-Ren, or anything close to it.

As Sneaky says...shut your eyes, and cover your ears, and keep arguing the same, inane crap you folks have for almost 8 years now.

Maybe...if all of you fall on the ground, and hold your breath...EA/Mythic will start a Pre Ren server!

No...wait...CALL THEM NAMES!!!

LOL...good luck with all that, folks.

Good luck, indeed. You will certainly need it.

[/ QUOTE ]

lets take a moment to see who is closing their eyes and covering their ears, look and see who is falling on their faces, i would say atleast 50% of the accounts up in uo today are people just holding on to their posissions while uo wastes away, i know of atleast 15 people just of my friends who just let thier accounts stay up not wanting to waste all those years of sacrificed time..... go to any one of the shards, you say the population is the same as it was, no. the subscriptions are still somewhere semi-high compared to the low end games, but they are no where near what they use to be..... do me a favor, go to a "populated shard" and point out a group of more than 25 people that isnt a guild event..... at any one point in old uo, you could go to any one of several towns including moonglow, skara, delucia, and not to mention the 100 + people that were on both sides of brit. dont even try to say that the population of active players is any where near the same.

tell me again who is closing their eyes and covering their ears to see and hear what they want to.... look at any source you want to, or even if those sources such as that chart from mmog isnt correct, then why doesnt uo boast about their current subscribers the way they use to? is that a gimic to gain more players? or why are their no advertisements now? is that because the name sells its self now? why is it they have to sell things such as another player slot? is that because they are making so much money now?

now tell me again who is covering their ears and closing their eyes?.... thats what i thought...

and i have peeked my head in on these free shards, and yes, yuo do see a few players that are afk, but i would say 90-95% pf the people are active, the towns are occupied, with people running around like ants, and even the ones that have modified up to factions without new lands have full running factions.... that is just a few of them, there are hundreds of them, with the populations boasting what they do explain to me why uo cant gain that kind of following..... because the minority, which means you, are happy with what uo has become.......

oh yeah, and the reason it was changed in the first place, was because you who werent happy then, where the ones sitting at the gank in tram, and typing on these forums where they checked, you were the voices of uo sadly then, becuase the active players who had fun in the world of uo were spending their time in game, not on these boards.....