Tamers got Greater Dragons and the Dread Mares.....

[galefan2004]

That will never happen you know. Being a tamer is all about getting improvements and buffs. When was the last time the tamer template was balanced or debuffed?....anyone?

P16? AoS? ML? Rune Beetle Nerf?

You honestly think tamers have never been balanced?

I would love to have greater dragons in a pre-p16 enviroment. I will gladly go without pet bonding to have 2000 greater dragons following me around.

 

[o2bavr6]

And how would that code look?

Not sure but at least not being able to heal them in PvP. And yes, the chances are that there would be a bug with it considering EA's track record.

When it comes to Fel/PvP I am open to any rule set that works BUT I would insist that it NOT impact the PvM group.

Agreed 100%

 

[o2bavr6]

Its actually funnier to stand there as a ghost and watch as the pet drops everyone trying to drop it anyways. Normally, I log out. When I don't log out they never get my pets past red line before it manages to kill all of them, and thats normally with 3-4 people fighting it.

Ya your right, they arent over powered.

Either way, you should not be able to log out to save the dragons life if it is the aggressor.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Rune Beetle Nerf?

You call that a nerf? They were dropping resists to 0 and they changed it to just half, thats not a nerf. Ninjitsu is an example of nerfed. What happened to rune beetles was no nerf it was more like a fix.

 

[ColterDC]

Its actually funnier to stand there as a ghost and watch as the pet drops everyone trying to drop it anyways. Normally, I log out. When I don't log out they never get my pets past red line before it manages to kill all of them, and thats normally with 3-4 people fighting it.

And yet you and the rest of these tools continue to defend your stance that pets are not overpowered.

Do you see the irony in this?

 

[o2bavr6]

Rune Beetle Nerf?

With that logic I can say I was upset at the Word of Death nerf!

 

[o2bavr6]

And yet you and the rest of these tools continue to defend your stance that pets are not overpowered.

Do you see the irony in this?

It's like talking to a wall... Or maybe these tamers only speak Dragon and that is why they don't seem to understand us.

 

[galefan2004]

WTF? Slayer weapons came as part of AoS. Prior to that, the only "slayer" weapon was silver which was effective against undead.

Sorry, but you are incorrect. Slayer weapons existed long before AoS. They dropped from the oposing group and had various VDPs which greatly determined their actual value. Also, slayer bows came from Juka Lords and had to be enhanced by a GM bower before AoS.

There were no "slayer" spell books before the ramp up to AoS.

That is true.

 

[altarego]

What about giving tamers a command delay? Just like how heavier weapons have increased swing speeds and mages have greater casting delays for higher spells...why not have commands for more powerful creatures have an increase in delay to response?

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

....

This thread is on the topic of 'tamers got Greater Dragons and Dread Mares what did everyone else get' and I think it is worth pointing out that it is understating it on an epic scale. It has at every expansion been the case that their unique content has been in the lead compared to what was added for everyone else.

I would counter with every one else got 10000 items to 1 tamable pet items.

That was the (not well developed) point I was making.

I have decided to make an Archer and I am being simply overwhelmed with the variety of Archery Weapons and Quivers. I created a Chest, secured it and have started to stash the various types of bows and simply look at the amazing stats on them.

I have seen the melee style weapons as well and they are no less absolutely amazing vs how the Weapons were when I left UO.

I really do believe it is extremly easy to focus on one or two tamable mobs that get put into the game and be totally oblivious to the thousands of permutations of items for the non tamers. I do not blame the non tamers for this. It is easy to find the Greater Dragons and Dread's. They are in an extremely finite space. They don't have great variety.

Weapons and Jewels on the other hand are spread out all over UO and have an almost infinite variation capability. Which of course means mere mortals will not be able to quantify them, not nearly as easily as they can quantify Greater Dragons and Dread War Horses.

BUT as an observation ...

I started UO when it went live. I played until about 8 months after Trammel went live. I came back 4 months ago nearly 5 now.

BY FAR the number of items and their wondrous effects / abilities FAR out number the tamable mobs.

As a side Note Nightmares were not original UO issue and is probably the best, most well though out tamable mob ever introduced to UO. It has easily withstood the test of time and even now, today, is easily the best 2 control slot ridable pet in the game and may (bake kitsune is a good contender) be the best 2 slot pet period in the game.

And if I remember right every one that was not a Tamer said the Nightmare Tamer PKr was so totally over powering and Nightmares must go. With hind sight, I would hope most people today would see that kind of knee jerk reaction was just that and over reaction to something new that they had not quite figured out how to deal with.

Regardless it wasn't nerfing the Nightmare that fixed things, it was templates being changed that fixed things.

 

[galefan2004]

You also had vanquishing weapons. Those were like rare back in the days.
I had a couple of them I got from Tmaps and the were converted to junk when things got changed around.

Vanquishing weapons were far from rare, and a good vanquishing weapon normally could be bought for 200k or less (you could farm just as much gold then if not more than you can now). Also, vanquishing weapons became pointless when they first introduced runics and a crafted verite or valorite weapon was better than vanquishing weapons.

Then there were the macers that could completly destroy your armor before they had armor repair. That was almost better than some of the arties we have today. To fight someone to see his armor just disappear off of his body was and awesome sight lol

That I would agree with. However, that armor didn't make nearly as much difference as it does today. Most mages pvped either naked or with a death robe on.

 

[galefan2004]

Also, the owners of the pets I killed didn't have vet, so they lost .5 unless they soulstoned vet over in which case they had a similar inconvenience.

I assume you mean they lost .5 when someone had to res their pet? To my knowledge this is simply not how it works. I've ressed my own pets, and my friends have ressed my pets and they always lose the same. However, perhaps that is because I still have the vet to res on the tamer the pet belongs to?

 

[galefan2004]

Yet tamers aren't too over powered huh?

No...tamers that think they have skills are not overpowerd. Tamers that actually have skills are about equall to every other template.

 

[galefan2004]

That's some nice fire resist. Greater dragons hit for physical dmg btw.

There fire breath is still fire damage. They do physical with wrestling. Any spells they cast (including fire breath) are based on the resist that would normally be associated with the spell.

 

[Wenchkin]

Except that in PvP no one playing a tamer has Vet, and why should they, if they die they just log out and their pet is auto stabled.

220 points to have the most powerful pets in the game is not enough of an investment IMO.

Oddly enough...I actually agree with you. I think that veterinary should factor into control and should factor in at such a degree that you have to have 100+ vet to actually control the higher end pets (cus, greaters, dreads, rune beetles).

Yep, I agree too. At the minimum vet skill should be used to determine whether a creature should be bonding - if the player can't hold up the resurrection end of the deal, why should the pet bond to them?

Oh and real skill is the only skill that should determine pet control, period. I wish taming had been like spellweaving and unable to be boosted with items.

Wenchy

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Yep, I agree too. At the minimum vet skill should be used to determine whether a creature should be bonding - if the player can't hold up the resurrection end of the deal, why should the pet bond to them?

Oh and real skill is the only skill that should determine pet control, period. I wish taming had been like spellweaving and unable to be boosted with items.

Wenchy

I like the reasoning on the Bonding and have no issues with that PvM or PvP. I would extend this to also include the rapidity of decay in the pets loyalty. I would also add that Veting a Pet raises the loyalty and perhpas reduce the chance of raising loyalty by simply uttering empty words / commands. I wouldn't be opposed to this, If a pet were commanded to Kill another player and the Fame of the target is greater than the Fame of the issuer of the command, then the pet has a higher chance of rebelling / not performing the action. This gets mitigated of course with the Veterinary Skill.

As to the Real Skill issue .... well as long as the only freaking way you can raise taming is through the .... well ... GGS then no this is a hindrance to the PvM group and would be crushing. Now if they fixed it so one could ACTUALLY get skill ups at the higher level, then yeah I could sign on. BUT when I go to Destard and dodge Wyverns and Greater Dragons and tame 2 dozen Drakes and 2 Dozen Dragons and 2 to 3 Greater Dragons and get squat, zero, nada skill ups? No ... No thank you, you dont get me signing up for that.

 

[galefan2004]

Please enlighten me and wright down the differences between a PvM suit of armour and a PvP suit as well as template.

The average top PvM template is normally...

Weapon Skill (Melee/Archery)
Tactics 100-120
Anatomy 100-120
Healing 100-120
Parrying 100-120 (normally optional)
Bushido 100
Chivalry 80
Meditation 40

They bypass things like resisting spells and most archers bypass parrying as well.

They stack the hell out of DI (there is no cap with DI in PvM so most PvM suits have at leat 100% DI). They also stack HCI. Depending on what they are doing they normally drop DCI and resists to stack mods that increase damage. They also stack the hell out of strength and dex. They also use leech weapons (which aren't that useful in PvP). I'm sure I'm missing many of the differences between PvM and PvP suits/templates but that is a start.

Maybe on your shard they are controlled by Zerg guilds, but on my shard we destroy the Zerg guild every time. In fact they are finally breakng up as a
guild.

Good for you...on my shard they are controlled by the mindless zerg.

You seem to be missing the point that most of my guild has played since before Tram and we know the ins and outs of the game better than most people. We have more gold and items than we know what to do with.

I've played since 2000 and its the same. However, when your focus is PvP you tend to know much more about PvP. My focus is PvM, so it goes to figure I would know more about it.

 

[o2bavr6]

Tamers that actually have skills are about equall to every other template.

So which one of your two posts shuld we beilive?

Its actually funnier to stand there as a ghost and watch as the pet drops everyone trying to drop it anyways. Normally, I log out. When I don't log out they never get my pets past red line before it manages to kill all of them, and thats normally with 3-4 people fighting it.

Is it your experience that 1 warrior can beat 3 or 4 other warriors 1 v 4 in a duel? If we say that the 5 templates are exactly the same.

Is it your experience that 1 mage can beat 3 or 4 other mages 1 v 4 in a duel? If we say that the 5 templates are exactly the same.

Is it your experience that 1 (insert template) can beat 3 or 4 other (insert template) 1 v 4 in a duel? If we say that the 5 templates are exactly the same.

 

[galefan2004]

I think that having Vet should be the only way to heal pets. You should not be able to heal them with bandaids or mage spells, unless you have the Vet skill.

Not even guildmates unless they have Vet!

I argue with this because there are times that you can not heal your pet via vet. If they were to make this change then they should remove mobs that require you to heal your pets with magery. I would gladly vet my pet during any peerless because vet heals 2-3x the damage that greater heal does. If they were to do such a system then having vet should mean your ranged healing (magery) should heal the same ammount that band-aids do, and with 80 magery and 80 vet you should be able to res your pet with magery.

 

[packrat]

Vanquishing weapons were far from rare, and a good vanquishing weapon normally could be bought for 200k or less (you could farm just as much gold then if not more than you can now). Also, vanquishing weapons became pointless when they first introduced runics and a crafted verite or valorite weapon was better than vanquishing weapons.

200k was a rare occurance in 1999. It took me a year to get 100k. A million back then was going for almost $50 on ebay.

I started with nothing when I first came. Houses were almost out of reach for the beginner. I had to sleep in the inns until I got enough gold to buy a house lol.

 

[galefan2004]

And yet you and the rest of these tools continue to defend your stance that pets are not overpowered.

Do you see the irony in this?

Its not ironic at all...

I've said it 1000x times and probably 100x in this post...

DON'T KILL THE PET KILL THE TAMER!!!

It takes 3-4 people to kill my greater dragon and he normally kills at least one of them. It takes 1 person 3-4 hits to kill me and then all the greater dragon does is stand there looking stupid. Where is the issue again?

 

[o2bavr6]

The average top PvM template is normally...

Weapon Skill (Melee/Archery)
Tactics 100-120
Anatomy 100-120
Healing 100-120
Parrying 100-120 (normally optional)
Bushido 100
Chivalry 80
Meditation 40

They bypass things like resisting spells and most archers bypass parrying as well.

They stack the hell out of DI (there is no cap with DI in PvM so most PvM suits have at leat 100% DI). They also stack HCI. Depending on what they are doing they normally drop DCI and resists to stack mods that increase damage. They also stack the hell out of strength and dex. They also use leech weapons (which aren't that useful in PvP).

These are pretty much the same skills for PvP

Yes the weapon would be different, more along the lines of 40+ Hit Lower D, 40+ Hit Spell, 30+ SSI, 10+HCI and 35+DI.

The Dexxer PvPers in my guild are stacked with Str and Dex and Int and DI and SSI and HCI and DCI and MR and LMC and all 70's

The mage PvPers in my guild are stacked with Str and Int and Dex and MR and LMC and LRC and SDI and DCI and all 70's and 2/6 if not 3/6 casting.

I guess maybe I just take for granted the items my guild and I have because about the only thing any of my PvP suits is missing is luck, which has no value in PvP.

I've played since 2000 and its the same. However, when your focus is PvP you tend to know much more about PvP. My focus is PvM, so it goes to figure I would know more about it.

I can agree with that

 

[ColterDC]

I think they should simply start by requiring Vet in order to control the stronger tamables.

Removing 100 skill points from some gimp's template would really help the rest of the non tamers in dealing with these people.


Other than that I'm bored with this topic as it's pointless to argue with people who are to dense to see past their own characters.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I would counter with every one else got 10000 items to 1 tamable pet items.

I think I already addressed that but it may have been in an edit after you read it.

From earlier:

"The difference between pets and if you say listed all the weapons that have been added to the game is that a weapon still does exactly the same thing as every other weapon. Comparing the difference in swing speeds and damage to the difference in all those pets strengths/weaknesses and unique abilities like armor corruption it doesn't take long to see which has most options. "

Weapons choice comes down to speed vs damage, mods are for want of a better word extra fluff. Much like multiple coloured Cu's are extra fluff.

Pet choice has always had more options imo and the more pets they add the bigger the gap keeps getting. With weapon choice you may know what weapon is best for the job but you can't always just equip it, you may not have one. With pets you pretty much can as there is a pet or pet combination for everything in the game (with the exception of 2-3 things that are immune or heal from pets) and stables (despite how much people say they need more) are more than adequate to hold all necessary.

The closest anything comes to unique class content is if you count say chivalry/bushido/ninjitsu as dexxer content, I personally don't as they are (& have pretty much always been) classes in their own right.

 

[galefan2004]

Yep, I agree too. At the minimum vet skill should be used to determine whether a creature should be bonding - if the player can't hold up the resurrection end of the deal, why should the pet bond to them?

Oh and real skill is the only skill that should determine pet control, period. I wish taming had been like spellweaving and unable to be boosted with items.

Wenchy

Players (myself included) started refusing to put the investment into time to make yet another tamer, but they wanted to make yet another tamer. I am working on getting real skill (97 or so now), but I'm still playing with over 110 skill via items. If they stripped skill items I'd leave the game before I powerleveled my tamer to make them worthwhile.

 

[o2bavr6]

Players (myself included) started refusing to put the investment into time to make yet another tamer, but they wanted to make yet another tamer. I am working on getting real skill (97 or so now), but I'm still playing with over 110 skill via items. If they stripped skill items I'd leave the game before I powerleveled my tamer to make them worthwhile.

I personaly think that all skill increases should rise at the same speed. It is dumb that you can GM parry in 4 hours or less, yet it takes a year to GM Taming. (Don't take "year" literaly, it may take longer it may take shorter but you cant do it in 4 hours)

 

[galefan2004]

200k was a rare occurance in 1999. It took me a year to get 100k. A million back then was going for almost $50 on ebay.

I started in December of 2000. I had my first mil farmed in 3-4 months. When I got my tamer bard made I farmed over 4 mil in one day on a weekend. Gold was not hard to get in 2000 if you hunted for it.

I started with nothing when I first came. Houses were almost out of reach for the beginner. I had to sleep in the inns until I got enough gold to buy a house lol.

I had my first house (fel small tower for around 2 mil) within about 3-4 months of playing. I had my first tram house (small workshop for $80) a few months later. Then I bought a small tower with money that my guild loaned me (4 mil) which I paid them back in a day. Then I got a sandstone (10 mil) because of my guild and I paid them back in about 3 days. Every house past that point I placed myself (max storage houses). My point would be that in 2000 you could farm over 100k an hour just like you can now you just had to know what to farm.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

They stack the hell out of DI (there is no cap with DI in PvM so most PvM suits have at leat 100% DI).

There is a cap for DI in PvM, it is 300%. Of that only 100% can be on items. The rest is achieved with slayers/enemy of one/perfection.

There is no cap for SDI in PvM, though there is a maximum achievable with the highest items. Which can be made 100 lrc 2/6 but has diabolical resists. Usually an SDI necro/mage (sometimes with spellweaving) will sacrifice certain SDI slots for a suit that works resists wise. (by works I mean from a pvpers perspective of nothing less than all 60's)

 

[galefan2004]

These are pretty much the same skills for PvP

They are VERY subtle differences between PvM and PvP templated toon. It also has to do with player skill to an extent. The same way that not everyone good in PvM can be good in PvP, not everyone that is good in PvP can be good in high end PvM.

Also, don't underestimate the changes in weapons (they are huge). Also, bushido which does very little in PvP makes meleers/archers GOD in PvM. Its not uncommon for my archer friend to honor the mob and be hitting it for 150--200 damage lightning strikes within the next 6 strikes without ever missing.

 

[galefan2004]

Other than that I'm bored with this topic as it's pointless to argue with people who are to dense to see past their own characters.

Thank you for your opinion...

I personally think that greaters/tamers can be countered because I've seen it done so many times and have done it myself. I am all for balancing this game even at the extent of balancing my own toon, but I don't think nerfing the pets is the way to do it. Nerfing the pets affects PvM much more than it affects PvP. If you want to find a way to nerf tamers in PvP without affecting tamers in PvM than I will gladly listen.

 

[galefan2004]

I personaly think that all skill increases should rise at the same speed. It is dumb that you can GM parry in 4 hours or less, yet it takes a year to GM Taming. (Don't take "year" literaly, it may take longer it may take shorter but you cant do it in 4 hours)

I would LOVE to have real taming, and that is my goal, but I simply don't have the desire to do nothing in a given month but tame while only getting gains once about every 2 hours.

 

[galefan2004]

There is a cap for DI in PvM, it is 300%. Of that only 100% can be on items. The rest is achieved with slayers/enemy of one/perfection.

Alright, I'll give you that, I should have looked. However, you can stack DI much higher in PvM than in PvP.

There is no cap for SDI in PvM, though there is a maximum achievable with the highest items. Which can be made 100 lrc 2/6 but has diabolical resists.

My tamer/sw has as much SDI on him as I could possibly stack on him, and yeah his resists SUCK. I have like 66 fire resist and the rest of them suck. I'm using scrappers, spellwoven, wizard's glasses, pendant, and a 9 sdi ring (with taming on it).

Usually an SDI necro/mage (sometimes with spellweaving) will sacrifice certain SDI slots for a suit that works resists wise. (by works I mean from a pvpers perspective of nothing less than all 60's)

True.

 

[Connor_Graham]

I personally think that greaters/tamers can be countered because I've seen it done so many times and have done it myself.

It doesn't matter if they can be countered or not. There is a cap on PvP damage that one player can do to another for a reason. The GD's go way beyond this cap, and that needs to be adjusted.

Yes folks, this is one to mark on the calendar. DC and I agree.

Funny though....the few times we agree it's always against the same person....

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

It doesn't matter if they can be countered or not. There is a cap on PvP damage that one player can do to another for a reason. The GD's go way beyond this cap, and that needs to be adjusted.

QFT.

 

[Sarphus]

I'm sorry where did I post that I got one hit killed? or that they can 1 hit kill? I said 2 hit kill!

My mistake.

 

[Wenchkin]

I like the reasoning on the Bonding and have no issues with that PvM or PvP. I would extend this to also include the rapidity of decay in the pets loyalty. I would also add that Veting a Pet raises the loyalty and perhpas reduce the chance of raising loyalty by simply uttering empty words / commands. I wouldn't be opposed to this, If a pet were commanded to Kill another player and the Fame of the target is greater than the Fame of the issuer of the command, then the pet has a higher chance of rebelling / not performing the action. This gets mitigated of course with the Veterinary Skill.

I like your logic too there, as it makes sense that healing a pet would increase loyalty

As to the Real Skill issue .... well as long as the only freaking way you can raise taming is through the .... well ... GGS then no this is a hindrance to the PvM group and would be crushing. Now if they fixed it so one could ACTUALLY get skill ups at the higher level, then yeah I could sign on. BUT when I go to Destard and dodge Wyverns and Greater Dragons and tame 2 dozen Drakes and 2 Dozen Dragons and 2 to 3 Greater Dragons and get squat, zero, nada skill ups? No ... No thank you, you dont get me signing up for that.

I've always said that there should be some change to the skill gain system for slow skills like taming, so that the incentive (ie control/tame of high end pets) is balanced with a pleasurable system of training. Not making it an overnight skill, but something that was fun. For example, tie it in to the zoo collection system. But rather than handing in the pet of your choice, you'd get a random order for x number of pets. The reward being the zoo points plus some taming skill. It's way past time I was sleeping, so I hope that makes sense

Players (myself included) started refusing to put the investment into time to make yet another tamer, but they wanted to make yet another tamer. I am working on getting real skill (97 or so now), but I'm still playing with over 110 skill via items. If they stripped skill items I'd leave the game before I powerleveled my tamer to make them worthwhile.

See the above...

Also worth pointing out that you don't need more than 85 skill to have a good usable tamer. Two words for you - bake kitsune. A lot of power, plenty of fun and extremely versatile. I really wish that I'd had access to kits when I trained my first 2 tamers up. Tamers 3 to 6 use kits 99% of the time.

Thing is though, I remember training without those skill + items. Yeah it took a while (I RPd my power hours usually lol) But it was the only way to tame certain critters ourselves. You knew it was a slog, but you knew the rewards. Nowadays it's like players know the rewards, kinda don't mind a bit of work, but would rather it was made easier for them. Maybe the best rewards should only come if you make that effort. While you might quit because it became too hard, folks like myself would leave if it became one of those "4 hour" skills. One of the few "brat deterrents" with taming is the time it takes lol. If the taming profession became a 4-hour'er, I'd quit before they started flooding in

Wenchy

 

[Sarphus]

I personally think that greaters/tamers can be countered because I've seen it done so many times and have done it myself.QUOTE]

It doesn't matter if they can be countered or not. There is a cap on PvP damage that one player can do to another for a reason. The GD's go way beyond this cap, and that needs to be adjusted.

Yes folks, this is one to mark on the calendar. DC and I agree.

Funny though....the few times we agree it's always against the same person....

I'm ok with them capping pet damage if they remove the pet run speed cap. Otherwise, tamers will be completely irrelevant in pvp, because they will do a trivial amount of damage AND run slow enough to make them too easy to deal with.

 

[Llewen]

Except that in PvP no one playing a tamer has Vet, and why should they, if they die they just log out and their pet is auto stabled.

220 points to have the most powerful pets in the game is not enough of an investment IMO.

Again, someone posts something as a fact that they in no way could know. I've been pvp'ing as a tamer for over two years now. I have 120 taming, 110 animal lore, and 100 vet. And actually for most of that time, I had 110 vet. Although I'll grant you that I am the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Sarphus]

I don't think the difficulty or time investment in training a skill should be used as justification to make the skill more powerful than other skills. I also don't think taming is overpowered.

I agree with wenchy that taming should gain faster and I truly think that if it did, you'd see a LOT less complaints about tamers. The reason I think we'd see this happen is that all the people who are complaining, but too impatient to go through the LONG process of maing a tamer would then be able to grind out a tamer.

I think the easiest way the devs could make taming gain at an appropriate rate would be to have a taming skill gain check every time the skill spams a message while taming an animal. Animal lore does its gain checks like this and it gains at a reasonable rate.

 

[Hunters Moon]

That was a smart move on her part. The Devs could learn alot from that lesson.

Maybe the other kids could just be happy for the kid who is having a birthday? Thats not a necessary move. Believe it or not LIFE IS NOT FAIR. You don't always get ahead when someone else does. Most of the time you don't actually. Learn to deal with it, and be happy for the person getting ahead.

You are calling UO "life"? This is a game. Games are supposed to be balanced. Lately it seems the only ones having "birthdays" are tamers.

 

[Joyous2K]

Well then I guess I need to head to Doom with my tamer. I have never gotten a doom arti, tamer or otherwise. Thanks for the advice.

Try a good greater dragon and spellweaving. You will get some arties but not like these guys are saying. You gotta put in the time. You also serve a vital role for everyone else because you keep DF occupied. You can also help heal (what I do) the poor hit and run guys.

I never think I am top damage dealer, but I always get looting rights on at least one of the spawned bosses (sometimes only 300 gold, so I feel that means I am definitely not at the top)

ARchers that are apparently invincible just hurl arrows take two steps, hurl arrows, take two steps. There life never goes down and they do damage. Those guys are king. Bards are great allies for tamers without barding.

Spellweave has the WOD and that gives a nice boost but is slow to cast so you need to time it right.

SO basically, don't be an a shat when your down there and do 5-10 runs and you will get an arty and it will probably be the "Skirt of Sissies" or one of the useless arties but you can say at least "I got one!"

EDIT: you keep DF occupied and your drag dies if no one can help chopping spawn or killing spawn or healing your drag. But before it dies, it serves a vital role in that DF is occupied.

 

[Joyous2K]

I think the issue is two fold:
1) how much damage they do in 1 hit
2) how fast they deal out damage, multiple hits.

There are times I get two hit killed by GD's and it has nothing to do with my ability to PvP or kill the Dragon, or nothing to do with my armour since I have 89 fire resist.

It comes down to the 80+ HP damage in one hit and then the barage of other spells almost instantly after. as I said before I have been killed by a GD in Despise with 2 hits, a fire breath and a fire ball, both hit me in less than 1.5 seconds. Kind of hard to defend against this type of damage.

In fact byt he time my health bar went from full health to almost redlined the fireball was already on its way.

What am I missing, I thought mac resist for PC was 70? 75 for santa helper energy.

Has max resist changed? Seen it twice in this thread now with resists greater than 70

 

[o2bavr6]

What am I missing, I thought mac resist for PC was 70? 75 for santa helper energy.

Has max resist changed? Seen it twice in this thread now with resists greater than 70

Max realized resist is 70, when you get corpse skinned your fire resist drops by 25 to 45 Fire. If you have more than 70 fire resist, lets say it adds up to 95 Fire, when you get corpse skinned you'll still be at 70 Fire resist.

So when I say I have 89 Fire resist, if I get corspe skinned my fire resist ends up being 64.

 

[Eslake]

What did others get? Let's look back shall we?

Since T2A how many new pets are there?
Ostards, which are just different looking horses (frenzy is a bear)
Giant beetles, both of which are more useful to Other templates than tamers.
squirrels .. okay they're cute but anyone can tame them with no skill.
.. etc

The only things new for tamers that actually increased power was Bonding (LBR?), Cu, Hiryu, greater dragons, rune beetles, and reptalons. (the dread horse I guess, but it is just a dragon that looks like a horse and has no fire breath)

so .. 6 maybe?
Lets look at Ninjitsu.. Bushido.. Chivalry.. Propertied Mage Books.. Golems(for a brief time at least).. Weapon and armor props..

So in relative gains...
Tamers went from White Wyrms to Greater Dragons. About a double in power.

Melee gained chiv, bushido, ninjitsu, HCI DCI Hit Lightning, SSI, etc.. More than quadroupling their damage output and trebling their survivability.

Mages gained the ability to avoid hits with the same effectiveness as a warrior while wearing armor equivalent to theirs and have essentially endless mana and no need for reagents.

Yep, I'd say tamers still have some pets due them.

 

[Krystal]

more stat points!

dragons shouldn't be tamable they suppose be most powerful beast in the world! they should be paid a mill a wk to even think of serving a petty human/elf...

 

[Hunters Moon]

What did others get? Let's look back shall we?

Since T2A how many new pets are there?
Ostards, which are just different looking horses (frenzy is a bear)
Giant beetles, both of which are more useful to Other templates than tamers.
squirrels .. okay they're cute but anyone can tame them with no skill.
.. etc

Show me a melee weapon or mage spell that can corrupt armor. Show me a suit or armor that gives me 1000+hps. Show me some jewlery that would allow me to cast 3 spells in about a second.Tamers have this ability with the command of a rune beetle/mare combo and the Greater Dragon.

Mages gained the ability to avoid hits with the same effectiveness as a warrior while wearing armor equivalent to theirs and have essentially endless mana and no need for reagents.
Yep, I'd say tamers still have some pets due them.

Mages are required to have at least 80 dex to have full use of parry. Tamers have no such restrictions to their template.No mana cost to give an "all kill" command.No Int requirement to tame the Greater Dragon(which I think is crazy...arnt the Greater Dragons supposed to be super smart,but they are easily tricked by an elf/human that doesn't even have half the int). Dex is not factored in when healing a pet with Vet.

 

[Charbear]

"Tamers got Greater Dragons and the Dread Mares"

They also got:

Bake kitsunes
Hiryu
Lesser Hiryu
Rune Beetle
Cu Sidhe

Roughly 2-4 per expansion since I started, some in the list like fire beetles aren't for tamers as such but a tamer is required to tame one so it's something they profit from. The rare coloured valentines bunnies were sold for ridiculous amounts of money. As are the rarest Cu's.

The main difference with the Greater Dragons and Dread Mares to the rest of the list is that they weren't added to promote anything.

All have been unique or useful in their own right and time in UO's history and only made obsolete by more powerful pets coming out, in a similar way to how for a long time they were nerfing arties with more arties.

The difference between pets and if you say listed all the weapons that have been added to the game is that a weapon still does exactly the same thing as every other weapon. Comparing the difference in swing speeds and damage to the difference in all those pets strengths/weaknesses and unique abilities like armor corruption it doesn't take long to see which has most options.

*yawns* This thread is getting old.

"The rare coloured valentines bunnies were sold for ridiculous amounts of money." I tamed these with my main melee charater. I popped a skill into a soulstone, went into town, purchased taming and guess what? I actually tamed a purple bunny! It's a miracle!! Any person could've done that... so let's just get that one off the list for good now.

Ferret and Squirrel: well, as we all know, you don't even just get them from taming. You also don't have to be a "tamer" to have one. So that point is moot.

Giant Beetle: Required Taming: 29.1. Hmmm... why comment on the obvious?

Fire Beetle: Yes, you have to be a tamer; however, there is absolutely no purpose for a tamer. Why hand over a portable forge to all those macro mules? I see the point here but since it wasn't "for a tamer", it serves no purpose being mentioned here.

Swamp Dragons: "Swamp Dragons die very fast at the hands of a warrior, but are extremely tough when being attacked by other monsters. They do very little damage in melee." Hmmm... let's see... you have to be a tamer for these but... wow-oh-wow... can a tamer use these as a weapon... uhh no. This did provide certain types of characters with a bonus but it wasn't created "for" tamers. This really shouldn't be mentioned here either. I never saw one of these sell for the complained about "mils" so there shouldn't be a prob.

Awww... so tamers received some really cute mounts:
Unicorn
Ki Rin
Ridgeback
Fire Steed
Don't forget how high the taming skill has to be for some of these to bond... and let's not forget you have to be able to control them too! In reality, these are all just pretty mounts. "Boys, mount up! Let's send our ridgebacks out to slay PKs!! Woot!!" Let's see... but everyone has access to ethereal mounts, chargers of the fallen. Oh poo... only faction members can have faction horses!!! That needs a fix right away! That isn't fair!! I mean... they look different and I want one but I don't want to join a faction.... boo hoo!"

Reptalon: I am not even going to comment on this one.

Oh my!!! So we have...
Bake kitsunes
Hiryu
Lesser Hiryu
Rune Beetle
Cu Sidhe

On top of the drags, wyrms and mares. OK... so tamers had the possibility of 8 "weapons" at one given time. They can use more than 1 at a time but remember, Children, there is a control slot limit. Tamers finally received 2 more weapons... so 10 decent - very good weapons that move extremely slow. Hmmm... that's not so bad over the multitude of items.... let's say... a fencer can have... the speed with which to attack... plus, all the bonuses the fencer can have on top of that... for chivalry or many other skill sets.

Let's weigh this... 10 "weapons"... (Now, remember, Kids, all this complaining is over the "tamer's new weapons"... not the other skills a tamer could have)... to the many, many existing melee weapons and new melee weapons introduced all the time. Hmmm.... that hardly sounds right. I demand they change every other template in the game so you can't do/have more than 3 weapons/attacks/bonuses at the same time! Yes, that would make it fair, right?? I mean... if a melee character has parry and a weapon skill... wouldn't that count as two things being used as once? That would mean a character could not cast enemy of one and heal at the same time. For a tamer, that could be a rune beetle, mare and vet. 3 things used at the same time. Hmmm...

Let's see... a sword and a shield... offensive and defensive. Hmmm... a pet to a tamer is also offensive and defensive. Good Gawd! I never realized!!

Hmmm... chivalry... Oh Lord.. and the different things you could do wiith Chivalry... should I be adding more to my count here?? Wow! If you look at it that way, it appears that every other template in the game has it far better off than a tamer. Wow... melee chars have special attacks too?? Holy smokes! They should nerf that right away! Let's see... taming, animal lore and vet... that takes at least 300 skill points if you want to be a "true" tamer. Many tamers are concerned keeping their pets alive more than much other stuff...
Am I making a point yet or rambling on @ 2 am on a work day?

Point being... a tamer is no worse than any other template out there. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but slashing an entire "breed" of player is wrong. What a sad state it must be if all one can do is "be the l33t UO PK" and fear a "pet".

You know... in real life... not every person can train a dog or a horse. Some people just don't have that "skill set".

I guess what I am saying is you either evolve and are a good player or just think you are. This IS a game so regardless if one calls his/her main character Genghis Khan or God of War, it doesn't make him/her anything more than someone sitting in front of a keyboard and a computer screen.

 

[Faith]

Why are you guys complaining? My bushido dexxer can solo things a greater dragon cannot.

 

[Finch]

To bad that "advice" is from someone that obviously never played a tamer and knows very little about how much damage they actually do. I hope you are being sarcastic because most tamers should know by now that they are far from tops in dps when going up against melee and archer templates.

Yes, dripping with it

 

[Sneaky]

what new turn in stuff is good for anything ???? I've not turned in a single item yet , and with the current list I wont ..........

First off, I didnt argue they were 'good for anything,' I argued that we got them... but lets have a look;

We have the ring/brac set, which makes it possible to get +200 more luck than previously available with a 200 luck ring/brac combo... but thats probably best on a tamer anyway!

The nightsight earrings are VERY useful for any human char who doesn't have night sight in his suit or is not a mage (like any decent warrior, because human > elf). Usefulness wise these are #1 IMO.

The new suit sets are crap IMO, and there is no way I would use any of them because even my mules have better suits than them already, but they will no doubt be useful to someone.

All the deco, not 'useful' but we all like to deco our houses up a bit, even us 'Fellies' every once in awhile

Uhhh, the blessed clothing is kinda alright if you have points spare to waste on it, its a bit meh, but eh, its new content hey!


My point was not if the items are good or not, its just that we got content other than the G dragons/dreads. IMO? Dread warhorse should of ONLY been ridable by a > 110/110 tamer IN A FACTION (they should be the same as normal warhorses, except tamers only so that faction tamers could of had something special).