Yeh... the idea that tamers are somehow the best PvM chars is an utter joke, a good dexer is 100000000000000000x better (K, maybe not that much better, but a fair bit
) than any tamer/pet combo for most (note I said MOST, there are some instances where tamers are better) PvM applications.Let's go through this one bit at a time.
As much as it pains me to agree with you on anything, I do think an intelligence check for taming, and for control isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact, people have talked about adding vet as another requisite for pet control, I think I would prefer intelligence as the prerequisite over the vet skill.
I think he forgot to mention that he was fighting the 3 stooges and shem.
OMG how pathetic is that!!
Of course tamers hide behind their dragons!!
THEIR TAMERS!!
Thats like saying : " Oh Warriors hide behind there sword and sheild!!"
I know lets take away thier swords and tell them to go hunt!!!
Tamers have their pets to hunt with just like swordsmen have their swords! GEt over it and move on!!
Yes any person COULD turn themselfs in to a tamer to coin it in but doesn't that spell out the problem with whats being added that you would HAVE to?
Your talking about how their just for show in current UO when they came out like 7 years ago.
No? Then I'll do it for you, when it came out it could Nerve strike. Why was it changed? Because it was yet another pet added with little to no thought to how over powered it would be.
They don't excatly need to move fast when they have 100's of hp and self healing abilities. Chivalry isn't fencing and bonuses like what what? Hit spell, it's weak, specials aside from whirlwind and feint are mostly pointless in PvM.
Your comparing pets to warriors when most pets are mages and warriors and something else on top.
Not yet no.
Evolving as a player is nothing to do with it, devs decide what goes in not the players and what the devs have added most of is pets.
I still think you are missing the point.
Let's see... this comment is very sad. Buying a little taming turns you into a "tamer"?? What are soulstone fragments for if you don't use them? How else (other than taming) do you recommend getting an animal as a pet? Hmmmm? Regardless, you would need some sort of "skill" to do it. What exactly is the point you are trying to make here???? Just because you don't want to do something simple to avoid paying millions in gold for a desirable object... well, that is plain ridiculous. I must be missing some monumental observation on your part.
Umh... why? How does that even make sense? Is it your point to make everything easy and be handed items (any items: pets, etc) on a silver platter? Ideas like that will make a game that has been enjoyed for years... boring and absolutely lame. Glad there are people out there running the show that can think and not be blinded by greed and laziness (IN GAME).
7 years ago, eh? No... not right... but why argue? I am sure every tamer in UO ran out with their uni or kirin and attacked PKs. What a smart idea!
And you worked for Origin (or EA) and know for a fact that is the reasoning behind this? Please scan a copy of the document that clearly states this is the exact reason for that change and the only change made. This isn't the 1800s... we have t.v. and computers now. We need to see stuff to believe it!
OK... so tamers need pets that are weaker than their human counter parts because... why? A weapon makes a character stronger, no? I mean... you don't see melee characters going around pvp or pvm with their fists, right? When the animals are tamed, they lose stats, yes? That would make them weaker than the "wild ones" running around in the game, yes? Let's see... what is your point again? Frankly, I see you rambling on about the same stuff... *yawns* I mean... obviously, a character is supposed to run up and kill a dragon in 1 hit, yes? If you use a mage or healing ability, you heal yourself too, right? Well dang... if I was being hit, I would heal myself too! Poor animals are so abused! PETA would be outraged!
Jealousy rears it's ugly head! You don't hate tamers... you hate animals!
I think we all could say the same thing right about now.
So... it doesn't take a new strategy to beat a new monster or animal? Key word here... "new"... evolve... getting better... but it has nothing to do with that, right? I am surprised you can PK at all... if you don't change and grow and learn new ways of doing things... you must be fighting like we did out of the box...
Glad you agree. What your missing is that your the one arguing with my post.
Whats sad is that you would need to in order to get any value from whats added.
I do use them but again why should I have to turn my char in to a tamer in order to profit from content?
Your missing the point, we don't ALL wan't to be tamers but they are not adding content evenly.
Again, we don't all want to be tamers and we shouldn't need to have one just to get worthwhile content.
It's not desireable to me. Again your missing the point, not everyone wants a pet everytime they add something to the game.
Thats a bit of an understatement.
Uhm because your arguing that they shouldn't be on a list of things added for tamers because smiths use them.
Wtf are you even talking about? I'm not seriously suggesting it for an idea for the game, I'm making the point that IF as YOU say they don't belong on the 'things added for tamers list' then why do they have a taming requirement. Your the one arguing pointless details.
For a definition of greed see the above 10-20m for a pink bunny.
You're the only person arguing about anything, YOU were making the blind observation that unicorns and ki rins aren't used and some bs comment about chargers. Totally failing to understand that chargers didn't exist when unicorns and ki rins came out.
You don't have to be a weatherman to know when it's pissing down. Nerve strike had a dominant era in PvP in case you didn't notice and thats just on players, pets (which hit harder due to ignoring damage caps) would be over powered with nerve strike.
Uhm, I didn't say that so dunno wtf your talking about again. What I said (what you quoted in case you need it spelt out) was a reply to your dismissive bs about pet speed.
Not quite no, you see tamed ones can be trained up, or didn't you know? They also have a player healing them. I mean this has been the case for a long time, yet seems news to you?
My point was clear in my first post. You're arguing it turning it in to all these side tracked little comments you make that are nothing to do with it.
Again, this isn't something I've said neither is it anything to do with this thread.
Is there a point related to this thread or are you just doing a social commentary on the game?
I hate tamers because the majority of content added to this game is pets. I hate the pets because their unbalanced.
Ashamed of being honest and calling it as I see it? It says more about you than it does about me that you think thats a shameful thing.
Try reading the topic before you post.
Certainly not yours.
Could, though it wouldn't be on topic.
Has what to do with this thread? The topic (as you still don't seem to have figured it out) is the lack of other content for other classes because their always adding pets.
Heres some more key words: "Off topic" "Rambling"
Two obvious things wrong with that, firstly - again - nothing to do with the topic, I haven't talked about PvP in this thread. Secondly you can't PK a pet as the P stands for player.
Name calling because you don't understand whats said is both childish and ignorant. Though as you've yet to make any on topic point in this thread it's isn't unexpected.
If that was to me, it is necessary to quote so he can see which of his arguments I'm replying to.
That wasn't me saying that.
In PvM especially do not see this "Lofty skill and timing" ya'll keep talking about. I see the "steamroller" tactic instead. "All kill!" *loot* "All kill!" *loot* *rense and repeat*
I have never lost to a tamer and a GD. They usually hug the guard zone when I am there.Even if I did lose to one,I am not the type of person to come crying about it here.
That is done by ANY spell casting monster now, ever since KR was introduced. They can cast on you well over a full screen+ away, we can't (over 9 tiles if I remember correctly) but ANY monster can easily (and don't say it's lag, for lag has nothing to do with it, 5 spells isn't lag, 1 extra maybe, 4 to 5 no). It is ABOUT TIME IT GETS FIXED for all. This isn't JUST a Greater Drag problem it's all spell casting monsters & KR is to blame for it.
No, you were being a troll (& still are). You were 'being goofy' and calling names, sounds childish to me. You expect me to 'read between the lines' when you failed to understand any of my origional post.
Three things wrong with that, firstly devs created carebare land as you put it. Secondly I didn't say I don't PvP just that it has no relavence in this thread. Thirdly if you'll 'see me there' that would imply your there too. As you don't seem to get the third one it highlights your angry childish rambling.
Heh, so true...
The "Team" concept he is explaining has one major flaw. The GD can do almost double the damage a "player" can do. So two say if you regularly solo two players, you shold be able to solo a tamer and his pet is just not true.
Ah I see what you're talking about. On this I agree. It isn't a Taming problem its a spellcasting creatures - period - problem. I'd gladly lose that on my tamer's pets if it meant I didn't get hit by 3-4 spells in the space of 2 seconds when a Lich Lord spawns next to me.o2bavr6 said:
That isn't entirely accurate. More Int means bigger spells for a mage, Dex for faster shots/hits by archers and melee, etc... but on the flip side, a Tamer needs Some way to tame these things. The taming itself doesn't require int, but without arch cure, greater heal, and invis (or some serious armor, chiv and bandages) you don't have a pet Greater Dragon.
Funny thing that. The most powerful pets in PvP are weak ones - Frenzied Ostards. They have no Slowness factor after tamed, and with the pack bonus 5 of them can shred an all 70s warrior with 120bush and parry holding a 2h weapon in about 3 seconds.
But people aren't complaining about those.See #1. It's part of the same problem. The server was designed to take shortcuts, and one of those is spell quing for NPCs. They decide several spells in advance what to cast and it doesn't matter if you recall to another subserver - you're still going to get hit by them.
And you don't see a problem with a single player (PvP'r) being considered a team while every other non tamer template out there is just a single player (PvP'r) and NOT a team?
Ok, the topic of the thread is "Tamers got Greater Dragons and the Dread Mares..." and my point (on page 2 or 3 I think) was that just mentioning the last two additions seems to understate the point the OP was making, as throughout the history of UO there have always been more pets added than the unique content the other classes have had. As stated roughly 2-4 per expansion.
And what reasoning do you have why ANY single template should have a decidedly HUGE advantage over any other single template. It's still one player vs another player. PvP is supposed to be balanced, not have one template that can do as much damage as multiple players. If that was the case, then we'd still have WoD archers using Honor 1 shotting your tamers.
No, that is a point you are trying to make. What does purple bunnies and everything else you mentioned have to do with the current addition of GDs and Dread Mares? Nothing. You took this "off topic" as you would call it and it had no business here either. You may want to heed your own advice instead of passing it out, Mr. More Holy than Thou.
I hear your thoughts here.. but I don't agree. How can you say pvp is balanced when we have blatant cheating, gank squads, and attacking crafters outside of guard zones in fel? If pvp were designed to be one on one.. then wouldn't the ruleset for fel necessarily need to be changed?
thx.. great sense of humor!I am still wondering why my Herding, Begging, Camping, chiv tailor cant kill the Greater Dragon and his pet.
personally I'd love to see a new fey slayer added! woo hoo! the original point may be correct.. tamers got some love, sw got some hate, we all got pixel crack (love that term) with the turn in.. but in general.. feels like the game is pretty much ignored and taken for granted by the EA team?
I didn't say it was designed to be one on one. What I did say was that one player should equal one player, and not one player equals 2 players IF that one player happens to play a tamer template and uses a GD as the weapon of choice.
Agreed!Ah I see what you're talking about. On this I agree. It isn't a Taming problem its a spellcasting creatures - period - problem. I'd gladly lose that on my tamer's pets if it meant I didn't get hit by 3-4 spells in the space of 2 seconds when a Lich Lord spawns next to me.
Except that a tamer can use pots to cure, pots to heal, and invis pots. So you really dont need mana or dex or int do you
I don't think so! No pack of Frenzied Ostards can kill me unless I lose connection.Funny thing that. The most powerful pets in PvP are weak ones - Frenzied Ostards. They have no Slowness factor after tamed, and with the pack bonus 5 of them can shred an all 70s warrior with 120bush and parry holding a 2h weapon in about 3 seconds.
If our guild chose to play on our tamers no one would ever raid us. In fact the zerg guild on my shard started to raid us using the GD's so we brought in our tamers with their GD's. Needless to say the zerg guild wasnt happy and procceded to break up after beign together for more than 5 years.
A Necro will not kill me in 1.5 seconds ever. A necro can not do 80+HP damage in one hit, and then less than a second later cast the killing spell before you can even chug a pot or cast a greater heal.Tamers just get the bad rap because the pets make them stand out. When a red nec comes by and slaughters you in 1.5 seconds, you rez up business as usual. But when a big honking dragon named Fluffy chomps you to death, you remember.
Ya know if a player was dueling a GD on wrong roof, where the player had no where to run, it may almost be almost impossible to kill a GD before it kills you.
The point I made is directed soley at the topic. Your posts have been directed soley at arguing with my posts.
I have already explained what several times, if you do not understand it that is your problem.
As you haven't understood the numerous times I've explained how my post related to the topic I felt it was unlikely you would understand anything that wasn't on your level and wouldn't ya know it! Soon as I post some name calling you understood it! lol.
In PvP they pay nothing. In PvM they have vet or they have given up their ability to solo in almost all cases. The issue is that you shouldn't be able to just take vet off of or your template in PvP to pimp your template and end up having 220 points invested to control a powerful pet. I don't think the developers ever really considered people playing tamers without veterinary because it was very very uncommon before greater dragons came around (few tamers even pvped for the most part).
You seem more obsessed with it being life than I am. I mean, at the end of the day, I could care less if they buffed a certain class or not. I do care about nerfs because nerfs IMO are just the developers saying they messed something up way to badly in the first place.
P16. That same publish changed many many things including introducing powerscrolls.
Don't underestimate the fact that the dread warhorse is ridable. Also, it has pretty nice resists, and it actually does much more damage than a dragon even without fire breath.
Funny but the steps I remember were you running away most of the time because the tamer was smart enough to cast mass dispell. I didn't think you even still played the game, but when you did it was fun killing you more than you killed me (did I mention my PvP suit has the worst resists imaginable).
In my experience in UO, most of the players left in Felucca in this game are real yahoos.I think he forgot to mention that he was fighting the 3 stooges and shem.
A PERFECT greater dragon will not kill 3 or 4 good players without assistance from the dragon's owner.
He must be fighting some real yahoos
Sorry, but it is you that has no clue what you are talking about. Tamers have NEVER been the top. Before AoS, the top was bards. Bards raked in about 2x what a tamer raked in an hour. After AoS the chivalry/archers pretty much reigned supreme. After ML it became land of the bushido dexxer and later the sampire. Tamers were never as far up as people like to make them out to be. They are strong, but they are not on top.
So in short, your complaint has nothing to do with tamers and everything to do with the fact that EA hasn't recently added any overpowered pixelated crack equipment lately?
You tame back skills not stats. Tamed greaters do not have the same stats as wild greaters even if they are fully trained.
10 pets in 10 years. Yeah it seems like only pets get added. I mean, lets take away all the warrior skills (bushido, chivarly) because those aren't pets. Lets take away necromancy because it wasn't a pet. Lets take away all of the ML, Ilshenar, 10th Anniversary, and Doom artifacts because they were not pets. Lets take away the community rewards because they were not pets. Half the freaking templates and half the freaking gear out there is overpowered, and they have added 10 pets in 10 years while adding 100 items in a single publish at times. So, yeah I can see how the majority of content is pets.
Stop making stuff up. UO doesn't have classes, and they have added 1000s of new things since UO began and only 10 of them were pets.
I don't think the tamers template should be nerfed...it should be nuked. Tamers should be religated to "Horse breeders"...now thats balance.
Exactly. It will end up where my warrior with 130 hps will one-hit die to higher end mobs because they had to tune them up because of overpowered pets.