Tamers got Greater Dragons and the Dread Mares.....

[Wenchkin]

Why is everyone who plays UO such a bunch of whiners?

Please lock this thread -oh great moderators!

LOL

tell me about it...

I was amazed when I went to catch up on the stratics boards and saw this thread was still rolling along with the same uninformed crybaby nonsense.

You're not the only one lol. Ach well, let's hope that all the tamer haters get enough venting done on this thread and stay out of the others here... Yeah, right

Wenchy

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Those of us who PvP find the amount of damage a GD can do in one hit to be a bit much. The 80+ damage they do in one hit is reality based, the reality of all of a sudden being redlined, and in most cases blead as well.

In PvP no other tempalte can do that much damge in one hit, so how can you say our complaints aren't even remotely realistic?

As for Tram or PvM, I don't think they should change taming or the GD's at all.

Because your stateing a thing that has no basis in my observations?

I am not demeaning you or anything. I made it perfectly clear above that there were two templates that out hit by Greater Dragons efforts (thing 1 minute of GD fighting) in one Spell or a hand full of arrows, at the Mellisa event/spawn.

So when you say there is NO template that can exceed the single hit damage of my Greater Dragon then there is a missing here. If you care to account for the One Spell droping a Paragon Balron from just under half health to laying face down on the floor. OR A half dead Paragon Balron laying Face down on the floor after a about 12 seconds of Arrows (and I belive there must have been a Melee at one time doing almost if not more damage).

It was exceedingly clear the Greater Dragon was at MOST 3rd Rank in that group damage wise. And we are not talking very close 3rd Rank either, much more a distant 3rd Rank to the 2nd Rank.

And what your seemingly wanting is for a Greater Dragon to be a ... well good fight but an inevitable fight that YOU win and take the Tamer down. Even if your a newbie Melee.

Why should a Legendary Melee type have zero fears or concerns when facing a Legendary Mage? Zero concerns when facing a Greater Dragon? Why must it always be a forgone conclusion that the Melee type will ... after a "good" battle be victorious?

Why NOT THIS, A legendary Warrior SHOULD fear a Legendary Mage until that Legendary Mage is Out of Mana then that Legendary Mage had better FEAR that legendary Warrior!

And as I said, I Tame WILD Greater Dragons with a paltry 45 Phys Resistance. They are a LOT tougher, meaner and hades bent on killing me than ANY tamed GD you meet. I don't die to them all that much any more once I UNDERSTOOD how to deal with them.

In short if I a soft bodied Tamer can NOT be killed (except by my own stupid mistakes (well and the occasional teleport on me and hit me and fire me all at the same time)) by a LOT tougher, meaner and focused Greater Dragon, then why am I going to accept the .... assertions that PvP players are dieing in mass to Greater Dragons?

Let me assure you of one thing, in your PvP encounter, that Greater Dragon is NOT RUNNING AT FULL SPEED following you around to kill you as some Wild Greater Dragons do and I, a soft bodied tammer dont die to them at any were near the rate that is being asserted in this thread.

 

[o2bavr6]

Because your stateing a thing that has no basis in my observations?

I am not demeaning you or anything. I made it perfectly clear above that there were two templates that out hit by Greater Dragons efforts (thing 1 minute of GD fighting) in one Spell or a hand full of arrows, at the Mellisa event/spawn.

So when you say there is NO template that can exceed the single hit damage of my Greater Dragon then there is a missing here. If you care to account for the One Spell droping a Paragon Balron from just under half health to laying face down on the floor. OR A half dead Paragon Balron laying Face down on the floor after a about 12 seconds of Arrows (and I belive there must have been a Melee at one time doing almost if not more damage).

It was exceedingly clear the Greater Dragon was at MOST 3rd Rank in that group damage wise. And we are not talking very close 3rd Rank either, much more a distant 3rd Rank to the 2nd Rank.

I'm sorry, but you may be correct in PvM, but you are way wrong in PvP.

There is no template short of an archer who can do 80+ damage in one hit in PvP. Archers at most do 50 to 55 in one hit.

I don't doubt that in PvM and in Tram dexers do more damage, but this just is not the case in PvP.

GD's do the most damage IN ONE HIT than any other tempalte in the game that participates in PvP.

 

[BardMal]

While your point is an extreme exaggeration, I guess you miss the point that the Bard with the 2 dragons is controlling 2 dragons at once, with no danger to him(or her)self. That same Bard in Doom can take down a DF a hell of a lot faster than that same Archer could.

Bro, I like you and always have. Think you could share some of that glue you're sniffing to believe that statement you made there? My tailor has a better chance of getting an artie drop in Doom than my Legendary bard, and come with me to Dessy and pull a stop watch on the difference between my Legendary bard and two dragons and my GM archer and 4 dragons. I have done the timer with both chars - my bard rarely plays anymore. I switched to my tamer cause I don't really like playing my archer.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I'm sorry, but you may be correct in PvM, but you are way wrong in PvP.

There is no template short of an archer who can do 80+ damage in one hit in PvP. Archers at most do 50 to 55 in one hit.

I don't doubt that in PvM and in Tram dexers do more damage, but this just is not the case in PvP.

GD's do the most damage IN ONE HIT than any other tempalte in the game that participates in PvP.

Let us assume that assertion is correct.

It is very clear that an Archer does not move as slowly as a GD. (Think TOTAL damage not one hit) I am fairly confident that the Archer is auto fireing. I am fairly confident the Archer is quite capable of Killing the Greater Dragon with little to no risk. I see them do it all the time when I am tamming.

Let me bring an anecdote from EQ PvP to this.

There is a Class called the Enchanter. Their entire strength is in being able to Charm their opponents. Get past that and they are an Egg waiting to be broken. As such they tend to be unwanted in most groups. (There is another side called crowd control but it has its issues as well).

Now think that class in PvP. Remember its ONLY Offense is Charming its opponents. Guess what the Melee demanded. You got it, that an Enchanter can NOT charm a PC.

Or in short, it is always the cry, PvP must be centered around the Warrior Model and that should always be a "Good" fight but the Warrior must always be victorious.

It would seem that UO and the other MMORPG's would be wise to create an environment for the Warrior Minded PvP people to go play by themselves as they clearly think balance is 50.1 for warriors and 49.9 to everyone else.

It should occur to you and everyone else. Dump the Dragon (and dumping the Dragon is as easy as it gets) and the Tamer is a cake walk. What one/two Bolts? Spells?

But just for fun

IF I were a PvP tamer, I would be FAR more likely to bring a 5 pack of Frenzied Ostards or a Pair of Bake Kitsunes to come harass you than a single Greater Dragon. Or perhaps a Pair of Bakes and a Nightmare for Backup. That might be a good demonstration of what REAL Dps is and the belief of "There is safety in numbers". But of course it would all be dumb as you would simply find a way to take them on one at a time sending them back to me for resurrection and eventually you get to the point of getting to me without them and I will be toast of course. Especially if your an Archer, Circling me and Auto Firing on ME, out running my pets by an easy factor.

 

[o2bavr6]

Let us assume that assertion is correct.

It is very clear that an Archer does not move as slowly as a GD. (Think TOTAL damage not one hit)

This is where your analogy falls apart. You see in PvP its all about the most damage in the shortest period of time, not the most overall damage on does in say one minute.

Most PvP fights dont last but a few seconds to 30 seconds at the most, and that is with like templates.

When you introduce a GD into PvP you have a weapon that can do 80+ damage in one hit, which means that after second number 1 you are 80 hit points down on your character. You also have to consider that more than likely the GD also hit the person with a bleed as well, let alone the poison and explode and flamestrike that follow all within the next 2 or 3 seconds.

So again in PvM or Tram all is good and I don't think a change is needed, but GD's damage does need to be addressed in PvP.

I suggest you go to Fel and watch the tamers with GD's and see how things work. Inevitably not only does the GD do all that damage, but then you also get 6 blues jump you at the same time, so now you are dismounted, blead, down 80+ HP on your guys and being chased by 6 blue stealth archers

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

This is where your analogy falls apart. You see in PvP its all about the most damage in the shortest period of time, not the most overall damage on does in say one minute.

Most PvP fights dont last but a few seconds to 30 seconds at the most, and that is with like templates.

When you introduce a GD into PvP you have a weapon that can do 80+ damage in one hit, which means that after second number 1 you are 80 hit points down on your character. You also have to consider that more than likely the GD also hit the person with a bleed as well, let alone the poison and explode and flamestrike that follow all within the next 2 or 3 seconds.

So again in PvM or Tram all is good and I don't think a change is needed, but GD's damage does need to be addressed in PvP.

I suggest you go to Fel and watch the tamers with GD's and see how things work. Inevitably not only does the GD do all that damage, but then you also get 6 blues jump you at the same time, so now you are dismounted, blead, down 80+ HP on your guys and being chased by 6 blue stealth archers

You believe my analogy falls down. I clearly do not and your saying things that have zero basis in my observations. It takes way longer than 30 seconds to Tame a WILD Greater Dragon. Even if I can Peace it (a 1 in 10 chance) The first "You seem to anger ..." gets his digestive juices flowing and he thinks I am dinner. I last a LOT LONGER than 30 seconds and I have 45 phys resistance.

How is it I can last 5 , 10, 15 minutes vs that Greater Dragon and NOT DIE and you with a UBER set of resitance and all kinds of UBER mods can NOT last 30 seconds? I get hit. I get Fire Breath'd. I get para'd. I get poisoned. I get teleported on to. I get "Greater Dragon is in FULL RUN MODE"'d. I get all the things you see, and some YOU DON'T see, from a WEAKER Greater Dragon and I do not die. WHY IS THAT?

But I can give you a Secret. No matter how many times you ignore things you dont find convenient to your argument, the Developers are NOT going to be persuaded by repeating the same White Noise over and over. You want to be convincing? Simple you had better start address the TOTAL DAMAGE of the Templates vs fixating on a ... well .. questionable assertion of being always one hit killed by a Greater Dragon. Regardless of you having actualy said the One hit or not, that is the theme your projecting as many have made it very clear that a GD is Childs play to avoid and you continue to ignore that fact.

So one could assume that the goal of keeping this thread going is that if the cry is made often enough that the Developers will indeed GUT a Template to satisfy another Template.

And as for your stories on how things are going.

Xavorie and I had a discussion on CrossRoads of Brittania a long time ago.

We agreed that ...

A Skill level 50 player playing like a Skill level 100 player will beat a Skill level 100 player playing like a Skill level 50 player every single time.

In short your stories tell me totally incompetent (their incompetence is in context of dealing with a GD and Tamer) PvPrs are engaging a GD and are absolutely clueless how to deal with a GD and apparently a Soft Bodied, Easy to Kill Tamer.

 

[o2bavr6]

You believe my analogy falls down. I clearly do not and your saying things that have zero basis in my observations. It takes way longer than 30 seconds to Tame a WILD Greater Dragon. Even if I can Peace it (a 1 in 10 chance) The first "You seem to anger ..." gets his digestive juices flowing and he thinks I am dinner. I last a LOT LONGER than 30 seconds and I have 45 phys resistance.

How is it I can last 5 , 10, 15 minutes vs that Greater Dragon and NOT DIE and you with a UBER set of resitance and all kinds of UBER mods can NOT last 30 seconds? I get hit. I get Fire Breath'd. I get para'd. I get poisoned. I get teleported on to. I get "Greater Dragon is in FULL RUN MODE"'d. I get all the things you see, and some YOU DON'T see, from a WEAKER Greater Dragon and I do not die. WHY IS THAT?

But I can give you a Secret. No matter how many times you ignore things you dont find convenient to your argument, the Developers are NOT going to be persuaded by repeating the same White Noise over and over. You want to be convincing? Simple you had better start address the TOTAL DAMAGE of the Templates vs fixating on a ... well .. questionable assertion of being always one hit killed by a Greater Dragon. Regardless of you having actualy said the One hit or not, that is the theme your projecting as many have made it very clear that a GD is Childs play to avoid and you continue to ignore that fact.

So one could assume that the goal of keeping this thread going is that if the cry is made often enough that the Developers will indeed GUT a Template to satisfy another Template.

And as for your stories on how things are going.

Xavorie and I had a discussion on CrossRoads of Brittania a long time ago.

We agreed that ...

A Skill level 50 player playing like a Skill level 100 player will beat a Skill level 100 player playing like a Skill level 50 player every single time.

In short your stories tell me totally incompetent (their incompetence is in context of dealing with a GD and Tamer) PvPrs are engaging a GD and are absolutely clueless how to deal with a GD and apparently a Soft Bodied, Easy to Kill Tamer.

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

You see I do know how to PvP and have been doing it for 10 years, and yes I know how to get around a GD most of the time, but not all the time (not that I should get away all the time).

But to put into context what I am saying, lets look at it like this.
If you take a tamer and his well worked up GD and place him on Wrong roof with any other type of template either dexer or mage or whatever, other than another tamer and the tamer will probably win most of the fights.

The only reason people can sometimes live around them is because of cross healing or that they barely got away. If the opponent to the tamer has no where to run, the tamer usualy wins due to the huge amounts of damage the GD can do to a player in one hit.

I am talking pure PvP here, 1v1 like in a duel, and in a duel no one does more damage in such a short period of time with one hit other than a GD.

Also I am not trying to flame you here, but honestly the way you are talking it seems that you don't PvP almost exclusivly like most people in Fel.. Do you?

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

You see I do know how to PvP and have been doing it for 10 years, and yes I know how to get around a GD most of the time, but not all the time (not that I should get away all the time).

But to put into context what I am saying, lets look at it like this.
If you take a tamer and his well worked up GD and place him on Wrong roof with any other type of template either dexer or mage or whatever, other than another tamer and the tamer will probably win most of the fights.

The only reason people can sometimes live around them is because of cross healing or that they barely got away. If the opponent to the tamer has no where to run, the tamer usualy wins due to the huge amounts of damage the GD can do to a player in one hit.

I am talking pure PvP here, 1v1 like in a duel, and in a duel no one does more damage in such a short period of time with one hit other than a GD.

We can agree to disagree but I certainly do not agree that you expect any template to be able to go toe to toe vs a GD pure one on one. To believe that, want that, is akin to the removal of the Enchanter class from PvP in EQ.

Short Recap.

EQ Enchanter Only Real offense is being able to charm (think timed tame) the opponent. Only Real defense is being able to Mesmerize (think paralyze) the opponent(s) (Think Area Peace vs Targeted Peace).

Now, the Warrior type cried enough and the Enchanter could NOT charm a PC and could NOT mesmerize a PC. In short the Enchanter COULD DO NOTHING in PvP except be an annoyance.

You created a tiny little square to justify your, everyone will die to the GD scenario, I dont know I live in such scenarios when taming. I have a hot key to invis self and yes the GD will reveal me but I have a full detection cycle to rehide/invis and then the GD is totally clueless to me being there. While I do not have a controller of the Wild GD redirecting it, I also do not use Pot's. Again, in my opinion, anyone having invis (or Invis+stealth) should easily win that encounter given the Tamer is in the square as well and can not be rez'd.

But then again, I have enough experience with GD's to know IF I am going to defeat one, it must be a battle with as many factors of my choosing as possible and I am NOT going to easily agree to get in a ring with a Tamer and his GD, that is 18x18 or smaller. I would if required but I would want to ... equip myself differently than I do when I go check Destard out or Tame GD's and it would need to be given the Tamer when killed (and he will be the first to go) can not be rez'd.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

def

 

[ColterDC]

anyone having invis (or Invis+stealth) should easily win that encounter

So your idea of winning a fight is to invis and hide?

Wow you are a brave one.

 

[ColterDC]

Also I am not trying to flame you here, but honestly the way you are talking it seems that you don't PvP almost exclusivly like most people in Fel.. Do you?

I'll answer that question for you.

No it's very obvious from his posts that he doesn't pvp. Which of course means he should stop talking like he knows something and go back to farming stupid AI in lala land.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

So your idea of winning a fight is to invis and hide?

Wow you are a brave one.

And you state very clearly why you can't defeat a Tamer+Pet.

You appear to be totally clueless why I say that is a winning strategy vs GD's.

To conserve post counts.

This is a Pricelss American Express Moment

Ok, you all come here and whine about how YOU can not beat a GD.

Any number of people tell you how easy it is to defeat a GD.

Your best come back is they dont PvP like you do (remember YOU say you can NOT defeat a GD) so they KNOW NOTHING and should simply stfu and leave.

Priceless

A scene from Aliens 2 Comes to mind. It is when they all get back into the building after having their butts kicked and the one guy is whining they are all gonna die.

Ripley tells the guy that Newt has lived with the Aliens for 2 months and NOT DIED.

Do you get a clue yet?

 

[Llewen]

What's not to get?

I was being Rhetorical

My question was a rhetorical question in response to your rhetorical question...

 

[o2bavr6]

But then again, I have enough experience with GD's to know IF I am going to defeat one, it must be a battle with as many factors of my choosing as possible and I am NOT going to easily agree

Let me ask you this: How did you feel about Word of Death before it was nerfed?

How are greater Dragons any different than the WoD spell, they both did same type of damage?

WoD can be disrupted, GD's cant, it takes over 3 seconds to cast WoD and GD's cast the first firebreath immediatly, yet WoD was considered over powered.

This was in part to the fact that with other players helping the WoD'er you can kill people very very fast.

So how is this different than a Greater Dragon? With the 80+ damage it does on the first hit and then others doing the kill shot immediatly after?

 

[ColterDC]

You continue to babble on about other games and movies.

You don't pvp.....so you don't realize all their advice on how to kill a GD is pure BS, the same type of BS you keep spouting to defend your overpowered garbage pets.

 

[o2bavr6]

Ripley tells the guy that Newt has lived with the Aliens for 2 months and NOT DIED.

It is obvious then that your concept of PvP has hiding involved in it. Being able to run away and hide from an opponent is not PvP.

And again you are showing your lack of knowledge of PvP.

Our tamers have magery as well so when a person tries to invis the tamer/mage just revelas them. Also the tamer mage is casting on the target the whole time, disrupting the cures and heals their opponent is trying to get off, all while the GD is chomping on them.

Now this doesn't mean that you might not be able to run away and get an invis off, but then you have to start all over against a fuill health GD and a full health Tamer/Mage.

Even if the opponent tries to keep the GD paralyzed the whole time, it is still very hard. The moment the GD becomes free from the para it firebreaths you so you have to run away fast to heal if you can.

Mage opponents still have to cast big spells to kil the tamer/mage, these big spells take time to cast as well as get disrupted. If you have protection on you wont get disrupted but your casting times drop to 0/6 instead of 2/6, something that is also very difficult to deal with.

All while the tamer mage can just focus on casting the fast small spells to keep you disrupted while the GD focuses on the big damage

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

GD's cast the first firebreath immediatly

This is simply not true in the full context of events. The fire breath is proximity based, meaning you need to be close.

Yes the GD has a full arsenal of Magic at its disposal.

I am a Tamer, I see them all and I live to Tame that thing or ignore it as trivial.

What that statement means is I get hit with all this crap and I live. On the Tamer character I simply do not have enough offensive capability to kill the GD but IF I had the time to create an Archer (and I do have one started) encountering a GD in either PvM or PvP would be trivial. You stated the steal archer earlier, that s one template that simply should treat the Tamer+GD with scorn as trivial opponents.

Again everyone of you fixate on a single hit as though that some how says that TOTAL DAMAGE does not count. Again, I tame GD's, I live through their attacks (yes plural). You are saying YOU can not live through a single attack. I KNOW the GD I face is a LOT tougher than the GD you face, even when it is well trained. The HPs, the Strength are all doubled. The Skills are at 90% of the Wild version.

The unrelenting fact, I LIVE vs that Wild Dragon, YOU DIE vs the weaker version. The ONLY difference is the Tamer himself.

Do you get the message? It is the Tamer that is beating you NOT the GD. If the Tamer is Dead any decent Offensive Template can Kill the GD. Well that may not be literally true as I can imagine some pure Melee with NO healing or aggro breaking capabilities.

And to conserve Post Counts and WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU INVIS? How long does it take the tamer to react? How long does it take the GD to act?

Are you simply admitting the tamers twitch factor is faster than yours? That the Tamers Macro's are better than yours? That the Tamers Scripts are better than yours? That the Tamer can Multitask better than you (as in controlling the Dragon, acting offensively and defensively)?

Even if the opponent tries to keep the GD paralyzed the whole time, it is still very hard. The moment the GD becomes free from the para it firebreaths you so you have to run away fast to heal if you can.

You cant seriously mean what I am taking your saying there, that you would waste your time Paralyzing the GD and then MELEE IT? If so you deserve to die.

 

[ColterDC]

I'm so glad this no skill tramy is educating us on how much more skilled he is than us pvpers.

Go ahead and continue to tell us how you must be better at pvp because you can kill some stupid AI.

Please continue to compare a ******** no brain piece of EA programming to a living thinking tamer and his pet.

 

[o2bavr6]

You cant seriously mean what I am taking your saying there, that you would waste your time Paralyzing the GD and then MELEE IT? If so you deserve to die.

I was actually talking about a mage but it doesnt matter because talking to you is like talking to a wall.

How can you presume to know what PvP is like unless you do it, and do it almost exclusively.

Your entire argument has to do with how you can live when there are lots of GD's around in a place like Destard.

Well let me tell you any group of reds is 10,000 times more dangerous than a group of GD's and being able to live amongst reds is way more difficult than around GD's.

But again, since you don't PvP how could you relate? You can't. So i will continue to lobby against them and you will continue to lobby for them.

Good luck to you

 

[o2bavr6]

What I don't get is, if he doesn't PvP why would he care if they nerfed GD's in PvP only?

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I was actually talking about a mage but it doesnt matter because talking to you is like talking to a wall.

How can you presume to know what PvP is like unless you do it, and do it almost exclusively.

Your entire argument has to do with how you can live when there are lots of GD's around in a place like Destard.

Well let me tell you any group of reds is 10,000 times more dangerous than a group of GD's and being able to live amongst reds is way more difficult than around GD's.

But again, since you don't PvP how could you relate? You can't. So i will continue to lobby against them and you will continue to lobby for them.

Good luck to you

Fine it is a big cop out but that is your choice to make.

PvP use to mean PLAYER vs PLAYER.

What you all do (no not literally all of you) is Hack vs Hack, Cheat vs Cheat, macro vs macro, Script vs Script. No, I really have no interest in engaging in the current (well and old(by a LOT fewer people, that managed to become the majority now)) way of PvP.

The distinctions between our play styles.

I determine the opponents weakness's and my strengths and make sure I do not make any mistakes. If I do, then I expect to die. If I don't, the opponent made a big mistake and I will capitalize on it.

Your play style Zerg it OR One on One Brute Force. If you cant win, then go whine about how over powering your opponent is and try to get it nerf'd.

 

[o2bavr6]

This is simply not true in the full context of events. The fire breath is proximity based, meaning you need to be close.

Isn't the tamer usualy close to his pet at the beginning of a fight?

also you dint answer this, so I will post it again:
How did you feel about Word of Death before it was nerfed?

How are greater Dragons any different than the WoD spell, they both did same type of damage?

WoD can be disrupted, GD's cant, it takes over 3 seconds to cast WoD and GD's cast the first firebreath immediatly, yet WoD was considered over powered.

This was in part to the fact that with other players helping the WoD'er you can kill people very very fast.

So how is this different than a Greater Dragon? With the 80+ damage it does on the first hit and then others doing the kill shot immediatly after?

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

What I don't get is, if he doesn't PvP why would he care if they nerfed GD's in PvP only?

See the EQ Enchanter debaco.

All your saying is Oh Oh Oh that GD is to tough for me and I WONT TRY TO learn how to defeat it. I WONT try to get my Template better. I WONT ..... etc.

You simply want to GUT a Template. You make NO bones about that. YOU make no suggestions on how to improve YOUR template. It is clear you are 100% about Destroying Tamers in PvP.

See the EQ Enchanter Debaco.

 

[o2bavr6]

PvP use to mean PLAYER vs PLAYER.

Well in this case it is PvP but it just happens that on of the PvPers weapons is his pet.

What you all do (no not literally all of you) is Hack vs Hack, Cheat vs Cheat, macro vs macro, Script vs Script. No, I really have no interest in engaging in the current (well and old(by a LOT fewer people, that managed to become the majority now)) way of PvP.

So now all of a sudden im a hacker, scripter, macroer because I PvP... Interesting.. believe it or not some of us don't cheat.

So I ask you again, why do you care if they nerf GD's in PvP? You don't PvP so it wont affect you one bit.

 

[o2bavr6]

See the EQ Enchanter debaco.

All your saying is Oh Oh Oh that GD is to tough for me and I WONT TRY TO learn how to defeat it. I WONT try to get my Template better. I WONT ..... etc.

You simply want to GUT a Template. You make NO bones about that. YOU make no suggestions on how to improve YOUR template. It is clear you are 100% about Destroying Tamers in PvP.

See the EQ Enchanter Debaco.

also you dint answer this, so I will post it again:
How did you feel about Word of Death before it was nerfed?

How are greater Dragons any different than the WoD spell, they both did same type of damage?

WoD can be disrupted, GD's cant, it takes over 3 seconds to cast WoD and GD's cast the first firebreath immediatly, yet WoD was considered over powered.

This was in part to the fact that with other players helping the WoD'er you can kill people very very fast.

So how is this different than a Greater Dragon? With the 80+ damage it does on the first hit and then others doing the kill shot immediatly after?

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Isn't the tamer usualy close to his pet at the beginning of a fight?

also you dint answer this, so I will post it again:

Oh hades no,

When I do the paragon Balrons (as only one example), I am off and the GD is getting Aggro, I do in fact sneak (is not stealth, it is taking a few steps at a time ever constantly watching if you have gained aggro and being a hyper twitcher) into vetting range though. It is knowing the limits of your Opponent.

When I do any MoB with an Area Effect damage then HADES NO I am not near my GD.

What possible good can I do that GD if I am dead?

Hades, even a stupid old Shadow Ore Elemental that hits like a baby can kick my GD's butt if I dont get rez'd fast enough.

 

[o2bavr6]

All your saying is Oh Oh Oh that GD is to tough for me and I WONT TRY TO learn how to defeat it. I WONT try to get my Template better. I WONT ..... etc.

Well you are showing that you don't know about PvP again, because I have one of the best suits of armor in the game and when it comes to armor for survival and damage output, none compare to PvP suits.

My suit alone cost me at least 500 Mill in gold to make or get.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

....
So now all of a sudden im a hacker, scripter, macroer because I PvP... Interesting.. believe it or not some of us don't cheat.

If the shoe fits then wear it. IF IT DOES NOT then it wasn't about you. I would have NO way of knowing if you hack, script, macro, cheat in PvP only you do. I do know that is the majority of PvP now. It was that way when UO went live but it was a statistically insignificant number of people doing it then.

 

[ColterDC]

Might as well ignore everything this clown is saying

I challenged him on test just to prove how overpowered GD's are in PvP.

He declined, as I expected.

All talk with not enough brains or balls to back his words up.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Well you are showing that you don't know about PvP again, because I have one of the best suits of armor in the game and when it comes to armor for survival and damage output, none compare to PvP suits.

My suit alone cost me at least 500 Mill in gold to make or get.

You dont get this part. I do not know anything about you.

We are having a point / counter point in a thread. NONE OF THIS IS PERSONAL. It is NOT ABOUT YOU.

I will assure you of this. All the self proclamations, claims of grandeur all of it, does nothing to me, does nothing for me. It will impress me ... well it wont impress me period.

Threads should NOT be about people and what they do or do not have. IF they (Threads in general) are to be the vehicle for change, then they (Threads in general) should be about the OBJECT TO BE CHANGED (The subject of the Thread). Period.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Might as well ignore everything this clown is saying

I challenged him on test just to prove how overpowered GD's are in PvP.

He declined, as I expected.

All talk with not enough brains or balls to back his words up.

Actualy that is a Lie. I said you clearly were not worth the effort.

I also said, that Go do your Day Care Psycho Babble Bully wanna be with others and annoy them. That if you wanted to talk to me, then talk like a person and not some .... well what ever is in your head that thinks you have the power to mainpulate others to do your bidding.

Muwhahahahahahaha, I gave you a REALLY BIG CLUE, when I said I would take on an opponent WITH AS MANY FACTORS OF MY CHOOSING AS POSSIBLE. But it is clear you do not understand Finesse.

 

[o2bavr6]

Oh hades no,

When I do the paragon Balrons (as only one example), I am off and the GD is getting Aggro, I do in fact sneak (is not stealth, it is taking a few steps at a time ever constantly watching if you have gained aggro and being a hyper twitcher) into vetting range though. It is knowing the limits of your Opponent.

When I do any MoB with an Area Effect damage then HADES NO I am not near my GD.

What possible good can I do that GD if I am dead?

Hades, even a stupid old Shadow Ore Elemental that hits like a baby can kick my GD's butt if I dont get rez'd fast enough.

Well in Fell the tamer is usually next to his pet in a defensive mode until he sicks it on someone, or until someone attack him or the GD. There is no sneaking up in PvP unless you have stealthing and hiding. And I use the term PvP very casualy with stealthing and hiding in the same sentance.

A red has the mindset of trying to kill you, plain and simple. So he heads towards you, at which point you can either run or fight (again lets say there is no guard zone, for arguments sake). If you decide to fight, you sick the GD on him which means that he is within range of the FireBreath because again, he is trying to kill you not the GD. At least not until after you are dead.

All this time, if you are a good PvP tamer/mage, you will be dumping small spells on the Red, spells like weaken and magic arrow and harm to keep hims spells disrupted.

The spell disruption stops the red from healing and curing all while the GD is chomping on him.

 

[o2bavr6]

Actualy that is a Lie. I said you clearly were not worth the effort.

I also said, that Go do your Day Care Psycho Babble Bully wanna be with others and annoy them. That if you wanted to talk to me, then talk like a person and not some .... well what ever is in your head that thinks you have the power to mainpulate others to do your bidding.

Muwhahahahahahaha, I gave you a REALLY BIG CLUE, when I said I would take on an opponent WITH AS MANY FACTORS OF MY CHOOSING AS POSSIBLE. But it is clear you do not understand Finesse.

Why do you keep ignoring my post #326 regarding Word of Death? I would really like to hear your opinion on it.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

So what skill,armor piece,or weapon did the other templates get to compensate for this?

None.

 

[ColterDC]

Same reason he never answered your question about his pvp experience.

He's just some little kid who has found a chatroom where he can talk like a big boy.

He pussed out on my offer to fight on test because he knows all his BS won't save him in a PvP fight.

You and I can clearly see he doesn't have a clue about this game and is making garage up to defend his pathetic pets.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Well in Fell the tamer is usually next to his pet in a defensive mode until he sicks it on someone, or until someone attack him or the GD. There is no sneaking up in PvP unless you have stealthing and hiding. And I use the term PvP very casualy with stealthing and hiding in the same sentance.

A red has the mindset of trying to kill you, plain and simple. So he heads towards you, at which point you can either run or fight (again lets say there is no guard zone, for arguments sake). If you decide to fight, you sick the GD on him which means that he is within range of the FireBreath because again, he is trying to kill you not the GD. At least not until after you are dead.

All this time, if you are a good PvP tamer/mage, you will be dumping small spells on the Red, spells like weaken and magic arrow and harm to keep hims spells disrupted.

The spell disruption stops the red from healing and curing all while the GD is chomping on him.

All of this is in total disregard for Archers.

You seemingly want to use two scenarios and exchange them when one has become inconvenient.

The Stealth Archer has zero problem in your above scenario. In that context then the Really over powered template is the Stealthy Archer. Why dont we all gang up on them and nerf them into being only PvM?

NO! Yes PvP is more exciting and adrenaline pumping than PvP. THE REASON (well at least for me) is that I need to match wits vs a REAL LIVE PERSON (hence why i have no interest in scripted, macro'd, hacked, cheaters) That means I NEED TO THINK how to break down their Strengths. I need to make darn sure I make zero mistakes. I need to make darn sure I capitalize on every single mistake they make.

In a MMORPG my tactic will always be to try to improve my template. I WILL NEVER EVER advocate or side with the NERFING of another template. Now if the Powers that BE POWERS decide to nerf something they will and they sure as heck wont seek my approval or disapproval. My statement is I WONT ASK THEM TO. I will NOT SIDE WITH ANYONE ASKING THEM TO.

You should know, from a previous post in this thread when it was young, I do NOT care what they do in Fel as LONG AS IT MAKES FELL BETTER. Improves Fel. Nerfing Tamers out of PvP is NOT making Fel better.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

So what skill,armor piece,or weapon did the other templates get to compensate for this?

None.

So what should they get?

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Why do you keep ignoring my post #326 regarding Word of Death? I would really like to hear your opinion on it.

How many things in this Thread did you ignore?

You can try (as DC is desperately trying) to control the flow of things. Behind the words there are real people. They do NOT behave as one expects them to behave.

You clearly ignore the fact that the Stealthy Archer can in fact treat the Tamer+GD as beneath him.

How many things in this Thread have you ignored?

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

So what should they get?

Anything useful.

I'm not a dev, I don't play this game to pick the bones of the job their doing. My perspective is that as their the ones who used to talk of getting things balanced it should be them ensuring it happens. Currently it doesn't.

 

[o2bavr6]

How many things in this Thread did you ignore?

You can try (as DC is desperately trying) to control the flow of things. Behind the words there are real people. They do NOT behave as one expects them to behave.

You clearly ignore the fact that the Stealthy Archer can in fact treat the Tamer+GD as beneath him.

How many things in this Thread have you ignored?

You seem to think that a stealth archer can do 80+hp in one hit. They cant plain and simple.

Aslo stealth archers are all about res killing or getting the kill shot in when someone else has done all the damage and then running away for their lives.

A stealth archer rarely can beat another PvP template 1v1 when both characters start out with full health.

This is why I am ignoring your comments on it. But my comparison of WOrd of Death to GD's is valid, yet you wont address it to explain how I am wrong.

 

[o2bavr6]

You seem to think that a stealth archer can do 80+hp in one hit. They cant plain and simple.

Aslo stealth archers are all about res killing or getting the kill shot in when someone else has done all the damage and then running away for their lives.

A stealth archer rarely can beat another PvP template 1v1 when both characters start out with full health.

This is why I am ignoring your comments on it. But my comparison of WOrd of Death to GD's is valid, yet you wont address it to explain how I am wrong.

Oh!! Don't forget that high DCI negates stealth archers, but it doesnt negate a GD.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Anything useful.

I'm not a dev, I don't play this game to pick the bones of the job their doing. My perspective is that as their the ones who used to talk of getting things balanced it should be them ensuring it happens. Currently it doesn't.

ha ha ha

Good reply (The anything useful)

Well, if and when they do get "Anything Useful" I hope it make UO better

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

You seem to think that a stealth archer can do 80+hp in one hit. They cant plain and simple.

And this is you ignoring the TOTAL DAMAGE aspect of an encounter vs the One Hit.

I assure you I Dance with a much tougher and meaner GD than you do when in PvP. They are capable of one Hiting. But Not as frequently as is being implied here. OR said another way. I can go try to Peace a GD with a normal Instrument as a 120 Music/120 peace OR I can go try with an Exceptional Instrument OR I can go try with a Reptile/Dragon Slayer Instrument. *Hint* I am not going to go try to Peace any Greater Dragon with anything short of a Reptile/Dragon Slayer Instrument. That is a +15% success advantage, which is NOT telling the total story. It also intensifies the effect, well at least in terms of Peacing. My Disco guy isnt high enough yet for me to determine if the Proper Slayer weapon has the same enhancement.

They certainly can NOT one hit kill any one that is not near enough to them to be in melee range.

Hence, A Stealthy Archer is going to Kill that Tamer and then Kill that GD. A smart Stealthy Archer is also going to have the right equipment equipped and that GD is going to go down fast enough.

I watch them does this all the time and actually help/encourage them as it turns over the GD's and I want that, so I can find that perfect (the next one will always be better) GD. IF I find one, I ask them to beat it down to being Red Lined as this greatly reduces the damage the GD can do and it greatly reduces the speed of the GD. Heck, even half dead that GD is a LOT closer to a normal dragon as long as you stay out of its reach (Melee attack) The Fire Breath Attack is GREATLY reduced.

 

[Joyous2K]

Those of us who PvP find the amount of damage a GD can do in one hit to be a bit much. The 80+ damage they do in one hit is reality based, the reality of all of a sudden being redlined, and in most cases blead as well.

In PvP no other tempalte can do that much damge in one hit, so how can you say our complaints aren't even remotely realistic?

As for Tram or PvM, I don't think they should change taming or the GD's at all.

YOu need to start a Nerf Dragons in PvP thread. This all started with some dude wanting more items that aren't pets. Unfortunately for him, there is no item that tamers can not use, but there are items (pets) that non-tamers can not use.

What he really wants is a bonded hired man for based on chivalry or more pets that can be tamed by tamers and transferred to the masses.

 

[Llewen]

Same reason he never answered your question about his pvp experience.

He's just some little kid who has found a chatroom where he can talk like a big boy.

He pussed out on my offer to fight on test because he knows all his BS won't save him in a PvP fight.

You and I can clearly see he doesn't have a clue about this game and is making garage up to defend his pathetic pets.

I pvp just about every day, for more than a few minutes at a time. I can assure you that he knows what he is talking about, and for the most part the few of you who are arguing with him don't. He has basically destroyed every argument you and your fellow tamer haters have made against him, so you've resorted to the the typical troll tactic of childish insults. You don't appear to have much to say, so perhaps you should just not say it, or by all means go all out and get yourself banned. That would be a worthwhile experience for all involved...

The basic issue here is there are some that just don't like tamers and their pets. No amount of logic or valid argument and discussion is going to change that. If you want to fight a skilled tamer with a dragon, or any of the hard hitting pets, because trust me, other pet combinations hit harder, and kill faster than a greater dragon, you had better change your tactics. If you aren't willing to do that, then you will justly deserve the dirtnap you will likely take.

But of course, anyone that can beat you in a fair one on one fight (pets included), must need to be nerfed, because you all are clearly the most intelligent and skilled pvp'rs in the game. In fact I've heard a few of your tamer hating brethren complain that they can't beat a tamer with a dragon when they are outnumbered, so they clearly need to be nerfed.

I can assure you, it is more than possible to beat a tamer with a dragon in pvp, and to be honest most tamers I see with dragons in pvp don't do very well, in part because they think that they have a dragon so they can check their brain and skills in the bank box. I know, from experience, that tamers are a very difficult, challenging template to play well in pvp. It is certainly easy to play a tamer badly, but you won't last long if there is anyone with a clue opposed to you.

Yes this thread needs to be locked. The tamer haters don't like the truth, or intelligent arguments, so things are getting a bit dicey...

 

[Hunters Moon]

YOu need to start a Nerf Dragons in PvP thread. This all started with some dude wanting more items that aren't pets. Unfortunately for him, there is no item that tamers can not use, but there are items (pets) that non-tamers can not use.

What he really wants is a bonded hired man for based on chivalry or more pets that can be tamed by tamers and transferred to the masses.

No,actually what I want is for either the devs to bring the GD more into line with the basic premise of the game or make it possible for my necro/mage to have 1000+ hp's and the ability to triple-cast spells.
I do not have a pally so having a henchman hired based on Chivalry introduced into the game wouldn't affect me,and I would not make a pally even if they did.

 

[ColterDC]

The tamer haters don't like the truth, or intelligent arguments, so things are getting a bit dicey...

Think you got it backwards there champ.

It's the tamer lovers who make up the lies and deny the facts.

Tamers are a very difficult, challenging template to play well in pvp.

See, you just can't stop lying.

 

[Hunters Moon]

Yes this thread needs to be locked. The tamer haters don't like the truth, or intelligent arguments, so things are getting a bit dicey...

Why does this thread need to be locked? Because you said so? There have been no RoC problems that I have read. Stop trying to be a Mod.

 

[Joyous2K]

No,actually what I want is for either the devs to bring the GD more into line with the basic premise of the game or make it possible for my necro/mage to have 1000+ hp's and the ability to triple-cast spells.
I do not have a pally so having a henchman hired based on Chivalry introduced into the game wouldn't affect me,and I would not make a pally even if they did.

I meant to say AND necro gets bonded undead based on skill. There, win for everyone.