Agreed. Captain stepped up and bowed out....why haven't the other two?
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Stratics: The "unvarnished" events of the past few days
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Agreed. Captain stepped up and bowed out....why haven't the other two?
BrianFreud
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Captain 'bowed out' because he unilaterally banned people. Noone else did.
I personally like Norrington. However, only he banned anyone, and he did so in a manner against the stated ban policy of the site - ie, without consultation or agreement by other senior staff. Nexus and Riyana were discussing things in a thread which, as already mentioned, was only partially screenshotted, such that context was lost. Given that neither of them banned anyone, there's no reason for them to step down.
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One major difference..
Having been a reporter for quite a while when Flutter was a Mod and a fly on the wall for a LOTTTT of discussions between the Mods at the time (both on staff forums and on Skype) I can not remember Flutter ever bringing her personal aversion to a person into the conversation on what action should be taken against someone. If you read the screen caps, the same can not be said about at least one on staff now.
I also like the Capt and I'm sorry it went down like it did. I'm sorry to see him go but I respect him even more for him manning up and stepping aside.
At the very least so should Nexus. I don't care that he didn't ban anyone. Starting all of this with the crap he said? You're okay with an empty apology?
Not me.
Hello all,
I'm sorry to interrupt the discussion but I have a question. I have taken a small break from UO to play another single player game (I don't know if I'm allowed to say the name of that game so I won't) and only just now found out about the recent goings on. I am a rare poster but frequent reader (daily, up until a few days ago) of this site primarily because of the game discussion and the fact that the developers post information here. Judging from the posts that Kyronix made today I would like to know if the Broadsword staff are no longer going to be posting here.
I'm sorry to interrupt the discussion but I have a question. I have taken a small break from UO to play another single player game (I don't know if I'm allowed to say the name of that game so I won't) and only just now found out about the recent goings on. I am a rare poster but frequent reader (daily, up until a few days ago) of this site primarily because of the game discussion and the fact that the developers post information here. Judging from the posts that Kyronix made today I would like to know if the Broadsword staff are no longer going to be posting here.
I have to admit, adressing this situation, about a forum for an all but obsolete game, as it were some serious scandal strikes me as a bit comical. IMO a lot of those posters should have been banned, and who cares. It's just a stupid forum.
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Question for you... Nexus is the guy who's handling all the hardware and running the software that IS Stratics. So let's follow your argument a moment. Let's say Nexus quits. So... who runs the hardware and software now?
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To paraphrase what has been heard on these boards FAR too many times since I have been around.. 'Someone will step up, someone always steps up'
This would be clearly speculation and is not relevant to the thread.
I'd suspect he replied in the manner he did due to being badgered in multiple threads.
Aside from this, there's not much more to discuss.
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Please remind me of who I wanted to ban? That's really funny because I never called for anyone to be banned. You're barking the wrong tree with that one my friend. And for asking me what my point is I think it's pretty clear from the quotes you selected. I have no ax to grind why would I have an axe to grind? That doesn't even make sense.
And I know because he TOLD me. I have already stated that previously. Why do you seem to be so blindly trying to support what happened here?
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Ahhhh! So you think he should quit for... [insert reason here], given that he didn't do what Norrington did. And it's ok, Stratics doesn't actually need anyone to manage and maintain the hardware or software, because [insert reason here]. And besides, it's not like UO and Stratics both have declining user bases, and it's good to know that there's so many people using Stratics who happen to live within driving distance of the server, who also happen to have the knowledge to run the server, who have the free time to dedicate to handling the DDOSes and other attacks that continually hit Stratics, and who also have a thick enough skin to deal with the continual verbal attacks some people will threw at him. Oh, and don't forget, whoever this magic person is, we need to remember to tell him that he's also not allowed to make any list of people who might be causing ongoing problems or anything; we'd hate to actually let him, you know, manage the site or anything.
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Email Mesanna, ask her what her thoughts are on the matter. Then tell me you disagree.
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Wow.
Thank you for your opinion but if the matter of the Developers not posting on these boards anymore is directly related to the happenings of the past few days then this is the exact thread this should be posted in as the moderators have clearly said that they will not tolerate any additional posts on the subject be made outside of this thread. And since the developers participating in the discussions play a large part in the reason I still frequent this site (and I would guess it's not only me) then it would be very germane to the discussion since the drama which is being discussed would be affecting one of the primary reasons I even come here.
So I again thank you for your opinion. The question still stands.
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I'm sorry I don't understand what you are talking about.
I certainly encourage Mesanna to share this information if she feels it is appropriate.Email Mesanna, ask her what her thoughts are on the matter. Then tell me you disagree.
Well man, I encourage you to ask the devs this as only they can answer.
You probably won't get far in this thread, but I've been wrong before.
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This.
I know that guy!Ahhhh! So you think he should quit for... [insert reason here], given that he didn't do what Norrington did. And it's ok, Stratics doesn't actually need anyone to manage and maintain the hardware or software, because [insert reason here]. And besides, it's not like UO and Stratics both have declining user bases, and it's good to know that there's so many people using Stratics who happen to live within driving distance of the server, who also happen to have the knowledge to run the server, who have the free time to dedicate to handling the DDOSes and other attacks that continually hit Stratics, and who also have a thick enough skin to deal with the continual verbal attacks some people will threw at him. Oh, and don't forget, whoever this magic person is, we need to remember to tell him that he's also not allowed to make any list of people who might be causing ongoing problems or anything; we'd hate to actually let him, you know, manage the site or anything.
There is a 90% chance it is possibly from the result of me drinking.
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In a post on UO.com today she clearly stated:
So email her and encourage her all you want. It would be interesting I'm sure.Mesanna said:
Well that is interesting, but I have to ask what this has to do with the thread?
BrianFreud
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I'm sure Mesanna is perfectly capable of posting on her own behalf if she so wishes Flutter.
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I doubt they'll even continue to read here.
Oh I get that. Just that the person made the statement of ". A list to discuss using permabans (Despite no ROC violations causing it) on "Problem" posters is BAD" with the "Despite no ROC violations causing it" in parenthesis, which in my mind says can be excluded and was just included to clarify that the people discussed weren't in violations of the permaban.
I agree, discussing permabans for non ROC reasons is not kosher, but I wanted to make clear that lists to discuss permabans for problem posters does happen for those that violate ROCs. And it's a common occurrence.
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Unfortunately that is out of context as she was referring to the Spring Time Contest and nothing else.
The FULL text:
Spring Time Contest
Posted on April 21, 2016 by Mesanna
Hello everyone,
I wanted to clear something up, if you wish to submit your screenshots to enter the contest please upload them here. Due to difficulties in the beginning we are extending the contest till May 5. Don’t miss out on your chance to win one of 2 teeshirts, a 15th year Lithograph or a plot from specific shards from Ter Mur (Human or Gargoyle).
If anyone needs to contact us directly you can email either [email protected] or [email protected].
Thank you and Good luck!
UO Team
So no...nothing to do with this thread at all....but thanks for playing!
Yes, I read this too.Unfortunately that is out of context as she was referring to the Spring Time Contest and nothing else.
The FULL text:
Spring Time Contest
Posted on April 21, 2016 by Mesanna
Hello everyone,
I wanted to clear something up, if you wish to submit your screenshots to enter the contest please upload them here. Due to difficulties in the beginning we are extending the contest till May 5. Don’t miss out on your chance to win one of 2 teeshirts, a 15th year Lithograph or a plot from specific shards from Ter Mur (Human or Gargoyle).
If anyone needs to contact us directly you can email either [email protected] or [email protected].
Thank you and Good luck!
UO Team
So no...nothing to do with this thread at all....but thanks for playing!
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WHAT are you talking about? I shared something from uo.com. Is that against the rules too now??
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Didn't claim it had anything to do with the thread. Wow dude.Unfortunately that is out of context as she was referring to the Spring Time Contest and nothing else.
The FULL text:
Spring Time Contest
Posted on April 21, 2016 by Mesanna
Hello everyone,
I wanted to clear something up, if you wish to submit your screenshots to enter the contest please upload them here. Due to difficulties in the beginning we are extending the contest till May 5. Don’t miss out on your chance to win one of 2 teeshirts, a 15th year Lithograph or a plot from specific shards from Ter Mur (Human or Gargoyle).
If anyone needs to contact us directly you can email either [email protected] or [email protected].
Thank you and Good luck!
UO Team
So no...nothing to do with this thread at all....but thanks for playing!
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I'll ask Clops about it. He told me his lawyer was the one to draw everything up but that he had not signed any sort of NDA.This one is just for @Flutter
Since you are SO sure that Clops was not under any NDA....I just wanted to throw this out there:
ALL Stratics Staff is required to sign one, so yes...he WAS under NDA....just wanted to clear this up
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Well...you can obviously see right there that he did, in fact, sign it....we had to block out the majority of his real name for privacy purposes of course.
Reading the clause, I'd say I'd never sign any agreement that doesn't have a time limit. Longest time limit on any NDA I've signed is 7 years and I got that nullified. The longest prior to that was 5 years and the company terminated itself and the NDA became obsolete.
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Oscar the Grouch
The fact that the staff is sitting around cooking up purge lists on a forum as slow, quiet, and dopey as this one is a complete joke in itself. Like seriously, how neutered and rétarded do you need this place to be before you're happy? Are you just going to keep conspiring and banning until there's like three people left posting nothing but "DURRH I LIKE KITTENS" and you congratulate yourselves on finally creating your perfect community as you unplug the site for the last time?
EDIT: The filter blocks the word rétarded? WTF is wrong with you people? Are you literally all 80 year old ladies?
EDIT: The filter blocks the word rétarded? WTF is wrong with you people? Are you literally all 80 year old ladies?
In many countries NDA have to be renewed annually at your yearly appraisal......but we are getting off topic....I hope that isnt the intent of any one!
This!!!! You are looking for very specific type of people to post here, and it's a pretty bizarre and narrow "safe space" that you are trying to create. Christ, working in a big corporate office with a strict HR department, we can get away with more than we can here. It's amazing the petty things people are being considered to be banned for. Not to mention how ridiculous it is considering the diminishing state of UO.
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Yeah but.. I don't think I'm going to stay. I know I have friends here, but it just doesn't feel good anymore. Doesn't make me smile like it used to. Thanks for always being respectful. Kelmo's comment made the decision a lot
easier though. I was still hanging onto the fence until then.
Enjoy your site and whatever kind of community you all have left. Love to everyone. No hard feelings.
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Maybe because people who have a child with special needs don't appreciate the word.
Additionally, it breaks the RoC to find ways to go around the filters. Be forewarned not to use the word any further.
Best of luck in wherever your journey takes you. The door is always open.
Actually it's that easy. Reddit can be used by the dev team very easily. You can have open Q&A more easily than on a forum. Plenty of the big MMOs devs use it.
The dev team did mention a UO Wiki. If players need info they can find it on a wiki.
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haha. they love this **** right here. he was just praying for another reason to flex his ban muscles.
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I didn't make the rules, I just enforce them.
For all the people crying that the rules should be enforced evenly and fairly, they shouldn't cry when its applied against them when it happens then.
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So with regards to this whole scandal, I feel it is time to finally say a few words.
First any of you wishing for an apology or resignation, prepare to be disappointed. The role myself and others sit in is not one where we can only look at and discuss the easy scenarios, and ignore to conceptualize the more distasteful ones. Rather it is imperative that we look at all scenario’s which may increase balance in the community and establish a means to help it progress and grow. Sometimes in this process to encourage growth you have to evaluate if something needs torn down to make room for that growth to happen. For considering these more distasteful and difficult questions there won’t be an apology from me.
Our criteria for those to evaluate consisted of individuals who had a long history of warnings, harassing staff, harassing other members, have conducted egregious acts with light repercussions, or acted as enablers for any of these, chosen independently by each of us, based on recent events and memorable history. The idea started with questioning from other staff, community members (including some of the ones rioting now), and various VIPs as to how certain members of the community regardless of how often they instigate arguments, throw insults, and act distastefully are still around while other community members preform many less violations and receive bans. When you hear the same thing from multiple areas, there is a problem and it deserves to be looked at.
So our plan, was to each create a list of people, compare them, simplify the list and see if a case concerning an immediate ban would be justified. None of us would actually be in a position to execute the ban, not by our own rules. What we would achieve if we find enough in a user’s actions and history that we felt it would justify an immediate ban, instead would create a documented example of how our current moderation system doesn’t always work as it should, and at the same time something that can be laid out as the beginning of a discussion on how to improve it and remove its shortcomings.
These discussions largely took place off the forums, the thread which was leaked was in essence a notebook created to hold information from discussion session to discussion session, as we went through the automatic logs of every warning and action that had been taken against these users. While the wording of much of it isn’t exactly professional, this was a forum that was not and should not have been exposed to public review and criticism, and was used as not only a place for us to keep notes but also vent frustration over the task at hand. Frustration was present, it is commented on as well, because we knew there would be a certain amount of push back from the community if any action, regardless of what it was, was decided to be taken on some of those individuals. But not doing this would be failing an obligation.
My perspective is that my obligation is to the Stratics Community, not to Ultima Online, or the UO Community no matter how much these may overlap. We’re not beholden to Broadsword, we have no agreement with them, they are free to use our forums just as each of you are free to decide to use them or not.
When a decision comes that is a choice between what is best for the UO or Stratics community, I’ll happily take the Stratics community 100% of the time. If end result of losing 20% of our community was the cost of allowing the other 80% to flourish and establishing a foundation on which we can actually grow while removing the fear of being harassed, I’d do it. If it meant creating a place where people feel they can express their opinions and have a civil debate without someone coming in and starting aggressive arguments over a simple difference of opinion, I’d do it. If it meant the staff wouldn’t receive nasty-grams 75% of the time when they action someone, I’d do it. And if it meant not letting someone encourage others to stir up crap so they can enjoy watching our staff members lick the spoon, I’d do it.
Continuing to allow constant disruption undermines every other endeavor we want and have a desire to undertake. If we can’t make this a place a majority want to use, rather than a place people will avoid due to being harassed by an aggressive minority then there is little point in trying to improve the site, and I personally won’t apologize for being concerned with these matters.
Now if anyone thinks harsh names, threats etc. is going to scare me off from doing what I feel is my obligation to Stratics, I’d love to inform you that you’re sadly mistaken. I can promise you I’ve taken heat from the absolute best, you don’t survive Parris Island with a thin skin. If you want the truth, you guys are giving me a warm and fuzzy feeling. I don’t particularly care if I’m liked or disliked, I’m not here for a popularity contest, I’m here to think about and explore the hard choices and the easy and do what I signed up to do, and that’s help protect the members of this community that operate within the rules as they are written down, discourage and evaluate for discipline those who don’t, and look for ways to make Stratics better, even if a very vocal minority find those actions contrary to their desires and wishes if it has the potential to benefit a much quieter majority.
First any of you wishing for an apology or resignation, prepare to be disappointed. The role myself and others sit in is not one where we can only look at and discuss the easy scenarios, and ignore to conceptualize the more distasteful ones. Rather it is imperative that we look at all scenario’s which may increase balance in the community and establish a means to help it progress and grow. Sometimes in this process to encourage growth you have to evaluate if something needs torn down to make room for that growth to happen. For considering these more distasteful and difficult questions there won’t be an apology from me.
Our criteria for those to evaluate consisted of individuals who had a long history of warnings, harassing staff, harassing other members, have conducted egregious acts with light repercussions, or acted as enablers for any of these, chosen independently by each of us, based on recent events and memorable history. The idea started with questioning from other staff, community members (including some of the ones rioting now), and various VIPs as to how certain members of the community regardless of how often they instigate arguments, throw insults, and act distastefully are still around while other community members preform many less violations and receive bans. When you hear the same thing from multiple areas, there is a problem and it deserves to be looked at.
So our plan, was to each create a list of people, compare them, simplify the list and see if a case concerning an immediate ban would be justified. None of us would actually be in a position to execute the ban, not by our own rules. What we would achieve if we find enough in a user’s actions and history that we felt it would justify an immediate ban, instead would create a documented example of how our current moderation system doesn’t always work as it should, and at the same time something that can be laid out as the beginning of a discussion on how to improve it and remove its shortcomings.
These discussions largely took place off the forums, the thread which was leaked was in essence a notebook created to hold information from discussion session to discussion session, as we went through the automatic logs of every warning and action that had been taken against these users. While the wording of much of it isn’t exactly professional, this was a forum that was not and should not have been exposed to public review and criticism, and was used as not only a place for us to keep notes but also vent frustration over the task at hand. Frustration was present, it is commented on as well, because we knew there would be a certain amount of push back from the community if any action, regardless of what it was, was decided to be taken on some of those individuals. But not doing this would be failing an obligation.
My perspective is that my obligation is to the Stratics Community, not to Ultima Online, or the UO Community no matter how much these may overlap. We’re not beholden to Broadsword, we have no agreement with them, they are free to use our forums just as each of you are free to decide to use them or not.
When a decision comes that is a choice between what is best for the UO or Stratics community, I’ll happily take the Stratics community 100% of the time. If end result of losing 20% of our community was the cost of allowing the other 80% to flourish and establishing a foundation on which we can actually grow while removing the fear of being harassed, I’d do it. If it meant creating a place where people feel they can express their opinions and have a civil debate without someone coming in and starting aggressive arguments over a simple difference of opinion, I’d do it. If it meant the staff wouldn’t receive nasty-grams 75% of the time when they action someone, I’d do it. And if it meant not letting someone encourage others to stir up crap so they can enjoy watching our staff members lick the spoon, I’d do it.
Continuing to allow constant disruption undermines every other endeavor we want and have a desire to undertake. If we can’t make this a place a majority want to use, rather than a place people will avoid due to being harassed by an aggressive minority then there is little point in trying to improve the site, and I personally won’t apologize for being concerned with these matters.
Now if anyone thinks harsh names, threats etc. is going to scare me off from doing what I feel is my obligation to Stratics, I’d love to inform you that you’re sadly mistaken. I can promise you I’ve taken heat from the absolute best, you don’t survive Parris Island with a thin skin. If you want the truth, you guys are giving me a warm and fuzzy feeling. I don’t particularly care if I’m liked or disliked, I’m not here for a popularity contest, I’m here to think about and explore the hard choices and the easy and do what I signed up to do, and that’s help protect the members of this community that operate within the rules as they are written down, discourage and evaluate for discipline those who don’t, and look for ways to make Stratics better, even if a very vocal minority find those actions contrary to their desires and wishes if it has the potential to benefit a much quieter majority.
as a reminder
as well as 
and do some 
as well.
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Well.. errr... I mean we can chain ya up in da basement if'n dat makes ya feel better... Just sayin'
Serious question here...
If we are not allowed to discuss moderator actions etc.. and are not allowed to reveal what they say to us in pm's when they admonish someone then.. how is it that they can admonish someone publicly in such a manner?
What a farce. Instead of apologizing and owning up to the issue, they just keep spinning and spinning.
Banning JC was for the community? Howd your screenshots work out for you Nexus?
Howd that work out for you?
You cant go on a damn rant about "I have to make tough choices for the Stratics community" when people on that list were clearly for either political or biased reasons. Banning JC was a clear political move and thats it.
Banning JC was for the community? Howd your screenshots work out for you Nexus?
Howd that work out for you?
You cant go on a damn rant about "I have to make tough choices for the Stratics community" when people on that list were clearly for either political or biased reasons. Banning JC was a clear political move and thats it.
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This is a case where we allow a public warning like this to be issued instead of a hard warning. Think of it as a police officer giving you a pass instead of a ticket.
There is no more "we"
Is it alright for the police to form a list of common criminals to round up and shoot? I mean, they HAVE been proven to break the law in the past. Might as well get them before they can break the law again right?
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