Stratics: The "unvarnished" events of the past few days

[Eärendil]

An e-hero actually. He saw an injustice happening and told people about it.

That is MOST ridiculous. As it is MOST rididulous to run around and telling people you would bring a shotgun to the anniversary party. Disgusting! Absolutely disgusting. And your hero is disgusting, too. Treachery is disgusting. He should have discussed the issue with those people BEFORE - and not stabbing the dagger in their backs. That is nothing a real man with a backbone ever does.

 

[OREOGL]

That is MOST ridiculous. As it is MOST rididulous to run around and telling people you would bring a shotgun to the anniversary party. Disgusting! Absolutely disgusting. And your hero is disgusting, too. Treachery is disgusting. He should have discussed the issue with those people BEFORE - and not stabbing the bagger in their backs. That is nothing a real man with a backbone ever does.

There is no reason to debate why he did it, or what you think about it.

This only adds fuel to the fire.

In the end there were probably better ways to address this, but he chose to make the decision he did.

Now we can either move on or bring the entire community down.

 

[Longtooths]

The fact that you still defend the creation of this list of, "primary undesirables" put together to, "..vote on concerning immediate banning" shows that the board and staff is still unfit to lead. You also have not addressed the willful changing of the ROC on April 4th to make it easier to facilitate these bans.

The ability to think and act using knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense, and insight is called wisdom and is acquired through age and experience. What we have here is the pride and prejudice of staff members and the extremes they have gone to to seek revenge.

You state that the list of people was, "a small subset of community members consistently account for the majority of RoC violations and reports on the site." Question, if that was the case why was everyone asked to produce a list? If the list was put together based on ROC violations and reports, surely that is data driven and can be backed up....So, again why where people asked to provide their personal lists? It doesn't flesh out, this was a witch hunt predicated on prejudice and hurt pride, nothing more nothing less. When you try to make it sound legitimate you are calling the community stupid and further exacerbate the lack of trust with us.

Furthermore when you make it sound like a process was in place to discuss, vote on and that this was all hypothetical, we see right through this as well. I know of at least one staff member that never even saw the post before this all blew up. "a discussion thread was started in the Sr. Staff Forum so that the entire Board could read and participate without all having to be online at once." Please explain the lack of other postings from staff members from the initial post on Tuesday @ 2:20pm cst until Friday @ 12:18pm the same week? (69 hours and 58minutes)

One last thing, I don't hate Stratics. I dislike the tyranny and clear favoritism that is prevalent on the site. I routinely stand up to what I see as blatant abuse of power by the moderators and their more frequent use of ESP to lock threads. Recently I brought up the changing of the ROC to be so subjective that the staff could do anything they wish. Turns out I was correct.

The ROC needs to be clear and precise. I understand that there has to be some subjectivity because you cannot possibly list every offence. However this should be the minority not the majority of decisions made. It needs to be clear so that the staff and community are on equal footing and clearly know the rules.

Other than changing the ROC, I feel that the staff members involved in the forum posts should step down as they have proven that they cannot abide by a ROC and have the power to abjectly change them to enforce their arbitrary whims.

.

 

[Eärendil]

@Eaerendil stop derailing this thread. You had a valid opinion but now you're just being a salty human trashcan.

Someone disagreed with your opinion. Boo hoo, get over it.

You had about 10 times more posts on this topic than I had. There is almost no voice defending some good people. So, forgive me that I stand up for a moment and post 5 comments (more or less). That is still not enough for all the hatred that has filled this board. But I have made my point clear and let the haters continue. Seemingly, it is their battle. Not mine.

 

[OREOGL]

You are right. We both don't agree much. But I was quiet during the whole battle and now I hope you will understand that I wanted to make my own statements. I will not fuel the debate itself anymore. But I will react to Nazi-Language and verbal violence whenever and wherever I can. I hope you understand, because I respect you.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

I believe it is important for everyone to convey their feelings about this as it will be the only way to bring us back as a community.

 

[OREOGL]

I don't know if you're trying to be ironic or not, but keep doing it mate, I like it.

Would I be allowed here if mein hair wast blonde, mein fuhrer?

Is this really what you'd like to discuss here?

 

[grimiz]

I think one thing is VERY clear based on all of these events and comments.

The majority of you have never owned and/or had to protect any sort of intellectual property in the form of a website/brand. I see nothing wrong with a poo-poo list of people who are a detriment to the site. NOTHING WRONG AT ALL. It wasn't a blanket list that categorized a specific group, guild, or type of player - it appeared to be a list of people whom (stratics staff felt) were more harmful to the site than anything.

Until a person has owned a site with as many members/traffic as this you'll never understand the complexities that are involved with keeping a community together. And when you get a whole "board" of people together to do it hoping they will all have the same mindset, ideals, and ethics - it becomes nearly impossible.

 

[Peekay]

As far as people being astonished that the existence of this "hitlist" is something I find amusing however... The moderators were simply discussing users who were known trouble makers in some way or another and given a banning policy they had apparently enacted, they were simply following it via a group discussion with one another. That is their right to do so, however what happened after evidence of the discussion was leaked is the real problem. After we learned of it's existence, we as users there gained just as much right to openly discuss it amongst ourselves with our peers within the confines of OUR COMMUNITY. However staff/admins/moderators felt that this was not the case and the route that they took is the same that they always take, delete threads, issue warnings and threaten to suspend and ban simply because we chose to discuss it.

Hell, I was on that list and I have no problem with that fact whatsoever. I have on multiple occasions worked around the confines of this dumpy RoC and found ways to express my opinion and get points across, just as Zuckuss did. I have in the past gotten approval from Moderators/staff/admins that a post I wrote up would be acceptable, but on the whim of another random moderator/admin was punished regardless of the go ahead I had recieved. Other times I've simply taken to private messages and have been suspended over happenings within the confines of that PM alone.

The moderators, staff, administration need to follow completely unbiased guidelines to the moderation of any community. The fact is that the bulk of our moderators, staff and admins have violated that ideal and have dished out moderation simply on the principle of personal ideologies, and it's because of that fact that the community has risen up to demand change.

Edit: You all convinced us that our community would be back in the hands of the community. It's time to honor that statement and potentially clean house, starting with Nexus and Larisa. Anything less is a show of blatant disrespect towards us, the users and the community you claim to support. Stratics isn't here because of it's volunteer staff as you say... Just like UO doesn't exist because of stratics, it exists because of the players. Stratics exists because of the users within the community who CHOOSE to participate in it. And that's a fact.

 

[Aran]

That is MOST ridiculous. As it is MOST rididulous to run around and telling people you would bring a shotgun to the anniversary party. Disgusting!

You know who else twisted facts and exaggerated claims against the people who they felt were the untermensch in society who needed to be removed...?


Edit: To clarify for those who missed it - I asked if their offices, where I presumed the gathering would be, had a no firearms policy, as I, and several others here, am licensed to carry legally in Virginia, and carry 24/7 with very few exceptions. Since I'd be coming to the event on my motorcycle, I wanted to know in advance whether I would be able to continue carrying at the event or if I should leave it at home so as to not risk it being stolen from the luggage on my motorcycle while parked outside.

At no point did I make any threats, suggest any violence, or imply any animosity. I was not the only person who wanted to know, I was simply the one who asked publicly instead of assume a place I'd never been to before would be off-limits for a normal, legal activity.

 

[Archnight]

People seem to forget these bans were partly justified... either for breaking RoC, being abusive or constant trolling. Now I don't agree with how it went down and it wasn't in the best interest of the community, but what's been done is done. Let's move on from this and hope next time there's more transparency

 

[OREOGL]

As far as people being astonished that the existence of this "hitlist" is something I find amusing however... The moderators were simply discussing users who were known trouble makers in some way or another and given a banning policy they had apparently enacted, they were simply following it via a group discussion with one another. That is their right to do so, however what happened after evidence of the discussion was leaked is the real problem. After we learned of it's existence, we as users there gained just as much right to openly discuss it amongst ourselves with our peers within the confines of OUR COMMUNITY. However staff/admins/moderators felt that this was not the case and the route that they took is the same that they always take, delete threads, issue warnings and threaten to suspend and ban simply because we chose to discuss it.

Hell, I was on that list and I have no problem with that fact whatsoever. I have on multiple occasions worked around the confines of this dumpy RoC and found ways to express my opinion and get points across, just as Zuckuss did. I have in the past gotten approval from Moderators/staff/admins that a post I wrote up would be acceptable, but on the whim of another random moderator/admin was punished regardless of the go ahead I had recieved. Other times I've simply taken to private messages and have been suspended over happenings within the confines of that PM alone.

The moderators, staff, administration need to follow completely unbiased guidelines to the moderation of any community. The fact is that the bulk of our moderators, staff and admins have violated that ideal and have dished out moderation simply on the principle of personal ideologies, and it's because of that fact that the community has risen up to demand change.

Thank you for keeping this civil.

 

[Merlin]

Let's please stay on topic and not have the discussion turn into personal sniping.

Additionally, please refrain from throwing around the 'Nazi' term. As someone who grew up in New York and New Jersey (and is an accountant), I had many Jewish friends growing up and work with many Jewish people. These are people who's Grandparents were branded like cattle with their call number at places like Auschwitz, Treblinka and Sobibor. Surely I shouldn't need to go further into detail beyond that. However, consider this a public warning to tread lightly on describing any of the recent activities as forms of 'Nazism'.

 

[Zappy]

Let's please stay on topic and not have the discussion turn into personal sniping.

Additionally, please refrain from throwing around the 'Nazi' term. As someone who grew up in New York and New Jersey (and is an accountant), I had many Jewish friends growing up and work with many Jewish people. These are people who's Grandparents were branded like cattle with their call number at places like Auschwitz, Treblinka and Sobibor. Surely I shouldn't need to go further into detail beyond that. However, consider this a public warning to tread lightly on describing any of the recent activities as forms of 'Nazism'.

Irony.

 

[whiterabbit]

*THO HANDS INA DA AIR* MEEES GIBES UP

 

[Archnight]

Irony.

 

[Lord Arm]

I have no idea what is going on, how bad it was ect..... i post here hoping the devs read which may help improve/fix the game and to inform players with info i think they may need to know. and mostly to stop cheating if i do a post or respond to one, i don't argue with a continious post after post. some people may like to argue.
would someone tell me exactly what happened with out the use of names please. i cant tell how serious this is/was or if it is overblown. thanks lol

 

[Giggles]

Ok everyone,

The sole purpose of this thread is for open discussion behind the recent events. Do not assume for a moment that this topic is free of the rules. We invite everyone to discuss this as adults.
To those of you whom are upset and want answers, if you are really looking for conversation and resolutions, I don't think you will be getting that by making a circus of this thread.

Please do not force me to lock this.

Thank you.

 

[Mervyn]

I demand to know why I didn't make the list. I have been persistently trolling for years.

 

[OREOGL]

I have no idea what is going on, how bad it was ect..... i post here hoping the devs read which may help improve/fix the game and to inform players with info i think they may need to know. and mostly to stop cheating if i do a post or respond to one, i don't argue with a continious post after post. some people may like to argue.
would someone tell me exactly what happened with out the use of names please. i cant tell how serious this is/was or if it is overblown. thanks lol

Ultimately just about everyone who posts here does so for the betterment of UO.

This being said i don't see it being conducive to continually rehash this.

This isn't intended to be dismissive of the situation or your post but the sooner we can move on from this the better off we will all be.

There are no doubts things will be continued to be sorted out here but as far as us, we've made it about as far as we can go with it.

I still have high hopes for UO and its community.

 

[Peekay]

Do not assume for a moment that this topic is free if the ROC rules.

of*
-rules

 

[Ox AO]

The list creator is in clear violation of civil law which was specifically directed at me.

Please remove this person.

Thank you

 

[Archnight]

@Giggles please clean up this thread instead of locking it, better to have everyone post here instead of opening other threads on this subject. Locking it will only cause more chaos...

Thank you

 

[Aran]

@Giggles please clean up this thread instead of locking it, better to have everyone post here instead of opening other threads on this subject. Locking it will only cause more chaos...

Thank you

Actually, it's better to just leave it as is. There's no need for the Secret Police to come scrub away the verboten opinions as if nobody voiced them. There's no sense having a discussion if you're just going to remove the other side's replies because you don't like them.

 

[Merlin]

Actually, it's better to just leave it as is. There's no need for the Secret Police to come scrub away the verboten opinions as if nobody voiced them. There's no sense having a discussion if you're just going to remove the other side's replies because you don't like them.

Replies that are not on topic, especially one that has caused as much outrage and drama as this one, or are outside the confines of the RoC, will be removed accordingly.

Again - please stick to the topic. We aren't going to get bogged down in debating semantics.

 

[JC the Builder]

Please do not force me to lock this.

Here it is once again, the threat of locking an important dicussion.

Instead of locking and deleting and editing and all this other nonsense; you start suspending/banning people who break the rules. That is how you moderate a forum. Not convene a dicussion to discuss who deserves a ban because they might do something in the future.

On our forum general moderators had 2 abilities: move a post if it was really bad or suspend a user. If someone got suspended everyone knew about and what for.

 

[Flutter]

I am friends with Clops. He can confirm that he was never given an NDA. The way I understand it, he funded a large portion of the "save Stratics" campaign instead of purchasing outright. He did this for the "good of community" and expressed to me several times how he hoped Stratics could be restored in both image and content to the once great site it was.

Because he was not seeking "fame" (for lack of a better word) he was taken on as a sort of pseudo-staff member. While he had access to the inner workings he never once participated in an NDA. So this is at least ONE confirmed example of misinformation in the original post.

I worked for multiple years on uoforums.com, the now defunct thelostlands.com, and here on stratics in positions all the way up to Administrator in all 3. NEVER have I EVER seen an "azhat" list. Never is that EVER an appropriate thing to have regardless of if bans need to be done by vote.

I can't speak for what Norrington did I was not there. BUT I did work with him and unless something changed he NEVER would act alone or without confirming what he was doing with SOMEONE.

There is no need for a private staff forum anymore. The people here that post and are part of a COMMUNITY paid for this site. Everything within it should be done with transparency. Make the staff forums read-only without special permissions. I guarantee you if someone is about to be banned because of XYZ they wont mind at all seeing what is being said about it by the staff.

FULL TRANSPARENCY is the way to go here. Anything else is just reinforcing the corruption idea that is rampant and destructive.
Save the forums. Have the people who called people childish names (even in what they thought was private it was wrong) step down. Replace them with community members (even better community members that still play UO) and let's try to save this site before Mesanna pulls even the EMs off of it. (which imo she should at this point unless something drastic is done to prove worthy)

 

[I Actually PVP]

That is MOST ridiculous. As it is MOST rididulous to run around and telling people you would bring a shotgun to the anniversary party. Disgusting! Absolutely disgusting. And your hero is disgusting, too. Treachery is disgusting. He should have discussed the issue with those people BEFORE - and not stabbing the dagger in their backs. That is nothing a real man with a backbone ever does.

So how do you view whistleblowers, as cowards??? I think history would largely disagree with you on that but that's besides the point.

Further, the fact that you and others are harping on peoples' bad language and treating that as a valid excuse to instantly ban people is absolutely ridiculous. It's equivalent to the folks saying that gen chat smack talk is a reason why people aren't playing UO, it just shows how out of touch you are with competitive gaming and the Internet in general.

If you don't like it, fine, don't participate, block users, put on a filter to ignore stuff but the idea that @Nexus , @Riyana and Norrington can act as judge, jury, and executioner against folks simply because you don't like what they say is BS. Take a look at the screenshots, look at their justification for banning JC/Link and it's the exact same mentality that you saw in Nazi-era Germany and in Turkey today: "I don't like what they're saying and, regardless if it's against the written rule/law, I'm going to suppress them and take away their right to say it."

Those mods were on a power-trip, they got caught being on a power trip, and they should not continue to wield that authority. They don't deserve it and can't be trusted with it.

 

[Mervyn]

I have to say, the censorship issues on Stratics in my experience has improved in recent years. A few years ago, I used to get banned simply for disagreeing with or correcting a moderator. I had it pointed out to me that:
"been reported and have had action taken against you on no less than 6 times"
I had to point out these were all spurious complaints and 6 times i've appealed my ban and 6 times had it overturned.

 

[Merlin]

So how do you view whistleblowers, as cowards??? I think history would largely disagree with you on that but that's besides the point.

I work with Bernie Madoff victims. The people who outed him were whistle blowers. The people who reported Enron were whistle blowers. The people who broke the NDA to share this information about discussing people that were believed to be disrupting some video game forums were not whistle blowers.

Further, the fact that you and others are harping on peoples' bad language and treating that as a valid excuse to instantly ban people is absolutely ridiculous. It's equivalent to the folks saying that gen chat smack talk is a reason why people aren't playing UO, it just shows how out of touch you are with competitive gaming and the Internet in general.

No one is instantly banning people for bad language. Simply not true.

If you don't like it, fine, don't participate, block users, put on a filter to ignore stuff but the idea that @Nexus , @Riyana and Norrington can act as judge, jury, and executioner against folks simply because you don't like what they say is BS. Take a look at the screenshots, look at their justification for banning JC/Link and it's the exact same mentality that you saw in Nazi-era Germany and in Turkey today: "I don't like what they're saying and, regardless if it's against the written rule/law, I'm going to suppress them and take away their right to say it."

They're the site owners. This website isn't a representative democracy where every decision gets voted on and debated within the confines of the general public. This is not Washington DC - this is a private entreprise. Please educate yourself on the difference.

And I already gave one warning about comparisons to Nazi Germany. Merely discussing the possibility of banning people from an internet website that discusses video games is no where near the context of what happened in Nazi Germany between 1933 and 1945. I won't repeat myself a third time about refraining from making this comparison.

 

[Ox AO]

This website isn't a representative democracy

As such they're required to follow civil law. It's my duty to help bring about justice.

 

[Shamus Turlough]

 

[BrianFreud]

The fact that you still defend the creation of this list of, "primary undesirables" put together to, "..vote on concerning immediate banning" shows that the board and staff is still unfit to lead. You also have not addressed the willful changing of the ROC on April 4th to make it easier to facilitate these bans.

I think you're conflating things here. The ROC rewrite has been going on for months. I hadn't seen the latest version before it was posted, but there's been a desire to simplify all the rules since at least the beginning of the year, if not longer. "[T]he willful changing of the ROC on April 4th to make it easier to facilitate these bans" is simply your spin on a topic unrelated to this thread.

In light of rules changes, though, I do recall a rewrite of all the trade rules a while back, when you yourself were a mod of the rares forum, where more than a few people wanted to discuss and question things that had been changed, and you personally locked and closed those threads. Seems rather odd to now find you questioning someone else when they too rewrite any policies.

 

[Flutter]

...

They're the site owners. This website isn't a representative democracy where every decision gets voted on and debated within the confines of the general public. This is not Washington DC - this is a private entreprise. Please educate yourself on the difference.
...

So are you saying that all the people who donated here were simply buying the forum for Nexus and company?

 

[Peekay]

So are you saying that all the people who donated here were simply buying the forum for Nexus and company?

Which would mean that their campaign to "Put stratics back into the hands of the community" was just a lie. Nothing more than false advertisement. I wonder how much money these days it takes before it's classified as a federal offense, because it's starting to sound like Nexus and company simply scammed Clops and the community out of a whole lot of money to attain stratics under false pretense.

 

[Longtooths]

I think you're conflating things here. The ROC rewrite has been going on for months. I hadn't seen the latest version before it was posted, but there's been a desire to simplify all the rules since at least the beginning of the year, if not longer. "[T]he willful changing of the ROC on April 4th to make it easier to facilitate these bans" is simply your spin on a topic unrelated to this thread.

In light of rules changes, though, I do recall a rewrite of all the trade rules a while back, when you yourself were a mod of the rares forum, where more than a few people wanted to discuss and question things that had been changed, and you personally locked and closed those threads. Seems rather odd to now find you questioning someone else when they too rewrite any policies.

Sure it is my spin. None the less the new rules might as well not even exist they are so subjective.

Yes I locked and closed threads, because they were in violation of the ROC at the time. I fail to see the correlation.

 

[BrianFreud]

As such they're required to follow civil law. It's my duty to help bring about justice.

This is the second time you've spouted this nonsense in this thread. There is no "civil law" involved here, nor is the presence of your name on a list a violation. Please leave the Freeman on the Land gibberish for other places and other discussions.

 

[I Actually PVP]

They're the site owners. This website isn't a representative democracy where every decision gets voted on and debated within the confines of the general public. This is not Washington DC - this is a private entreprise. Please educate yourself on the difference.

And I already gave one warning about comparisons to Nazi Germany. Merely discussing the possibility of banning people from an internet website that discusses video games is no where near the context of what happened in Nazi Germany between 1933 and 1945. I won't repeat myself a third time about refraining from making this comparison.

Stop being so literal and overly sensitive, we all obviously know that this isn't equivalent to the Holocaust and stop trying to cite your RL world credentials as if they add anything to this conversation. My grandad survived Auschwitz, now what?

As to your point about them being the site owners, I guess that's true, but that doesn't change the fact they've been exposed as horrible hypocrites and if they had any sense of shame they'd step down. As Flutter pointed out, who paid for this site? Who started the "save stratics" campaign with a holier than thou, we're doing this for the good of the community narrative? Who actually forked over large sums of money for to save this site?

Sure, you can make the case that @Nexus @Riyana and Norington had the legal right to go on power-trips, but that doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean we should just sit here and be grateful that we can post on the boards that other people bought for them.

 

[Flutter]

Which would mean that their campaign to "Put stratics back into the hands of the community" was just a lie. Nothing more than false advertisement. I wonder how much money these days it takes before it's classified as a federal offense, because it's starting to sound like Nexus and company simply scammed Clops and the community out of a whole lot of money to attain stratics under false pretense.

Its not much. There was a case recently of a lady collecting for her kid who had cancer. Turned out she didn't have any children. You cannot lie to collect money. I think I will tell Clops to ask his lawyer how much constitutes fraud.

 

[The Craftsman]

Evening folks. Im back from the banderness. Yes i was on the list (must add that to a forum sig) and unsurprised by it.

@Lord Nabin ... yes im back old fella. Put down that celebratory glass of old moonglow red. Actually dont ... ill pull up a chair and pour me a glass. Im in celabratory mood myself. And reflective.

I'll put this as carefully as I can and try to keep it within the bounds of the RoC, although I hope for this thread only that the mods are willing to accept that the rules may need to be allowed to be stretched for the good of us all.

Ok so I got banned. Was I surprised by this? No. Ive had a few bans over the years, some of them fully justified, some not so. Since the old mods got canned and a new group came in I'd say most of my warnings were justified (hell I like to tell it how it is sometimes and take a warning or ban as an occupational hazzard) and every time they emailed and I was left in no doubt why, and occasionally had a good discussion with the mod in question. No problem with that. Over the last month though I got a 1 day ban (no reason given) for virtually nothing. Next came a 3 day ban (no reason given again) for an innocuous post. Then came a perma pan for again something probably not worthy of a warning even. I had suspected (and openly stated) that there was some hidden agenda and that has proved true.

Ive reflected over the past couple of days as to weather I deserved a ban or if I was victimised. Im sure there will be a host baying that I deserved it. Maybe, maybe not. Is my stratics persona my RL persona? Mostly no. Im a fairly calm quiet guy. I have a beautiful wife. And amazing son, both of whom I love dearly. I have a good job, lots of friends, a good social live outside of gaming, a great family. UO has been a passion since 2nd Jan 2000 when I loaded up that T2A CD. Over the years I have loved it and hated it. Dropped it and picked it up again. Detested what it has become but at the same time loved what it still was. Ive played numerous other games and enjoyed many of them immensely but never recaptured UO, nor can I seem to get away from it, mostly through this community where even if Im not playing I want to be involved, hear about it, talk about it, debate it. That deep involvement often results in me taking a no prisoner stance on topics I feel strongly about. Makes me intolerant where I perceive idiocy. Makes me angry where I see injustice or hippocracy. Apologies if this comes across badly or as trolling. Its not intended that way (ok ... occasionally as I like a good debate) and I do have a high likes to posts ratio so its not all "asshattery" as I think I was accused of in the 'list' debacle.

Anyhoo ... Im as disappointed as anyone as the way this has all gone. I'll go on record as saying that I was surprised at myself in how bothered I was by my ban. I missed this place. Yes I think some of you are asses (you know who you are) and Im sure you feel the same but as they say ... you can choose your friends but you cant choose your (stratics) family. Its the community as a whole that makes it a community ... you cant just cherry pick who you want to be part of it. Its all of us.

I hope that from this a lesson can be learned but some changes are probably needed to go forward, both in policy and personnel.

@Nexus ...I could write a novel but others have already said it and you know youve let yourself and the community down badly. Im sure youve learned something from it but your position seems untenable. Im sorry it turned out that way. We all make mistakes.

@Captn Norrington ...So disappointed in you. Didnt I say in a PM that you were probably the best mod on here? Im disappointed at your actions and even more disappointed you left. Youre a good guy.

@Zuckuss ...Had my run ins with you during your mod days but I was wrong. You have my respect in the way youve handled yourself and the way youve put across your opinions in this matter.

As for the guy who spilled the beans? Of course he had to get a hefty ban, it was inevitable but thanks for doing the community a service by doing what you did.

Yours
David (The Craftsman ... coming to an EC/F2P thread near you!)

 

[Flutter]

This is the second time you've spouted this nonsense in this thread. There is no "civil law" involved here, nor is the presence of your name on a list a violation. Please leave the Freeman on the Land gibberish for other places and other discussions.

Actually falsely accusing someone of racism is very much illegal. (even over the internet)

 

[Merlin]

Which would mean that their campaign to "Put stratics back into the hands of the community" was just a lie. Nothing more than false advertisement. I wonder how much money these days it takes before it's classified as a federal offense, because it's starting to sound like Nexus and company simply scammed Clops and the community out of a whole lot of money to attain stratics under false pretense.

Before you make any more unfounded accusations and the campaign to purchase Stratics, maybe you should go back and read about what contributing to the IndieGoGo campaign was about.

Simply discussing banning some people from an internet forum that was recently bought via a 'Go-Fund-Me' campaign doesn't constitute some type of Federal offense. Quit the non-sense, Peekay.

Its not much. There was a case recently of a lady collecting for her kid who had cancer. Turned out she didn't have any children. You cannot lie to collect money. I think I will tell Clops to ask his lawyer how much constitutes fraud.

I'm a CPA and CFE. There is no dollar threshold needed to investigate fraud. There was also no fraud here. Quit the non-sense, Flutter.

 

[Merlin]

Actually falsely accusing someone of racism is very much illegal. (even over the internet)

I'm a conservative Republican. You know how often I get accused of racism living in ultra-liberal Manhattan? Daily.

Knock it off with the accusations that laws have been broken. They haven't.

 

[Flutter]

*nonsense
Also, you may not see it, but a lot of people do. Sure was a whole lot of money changing hands.

 

[Scribbles]

After reading ridiculous post after ridiculous post... This is my summary.

You're so vein, you probably think this forum is about you.

 

[BrianFreud]

I'm a CPA and CFE. There is no dollar threshold needed to investigate fraud. There was also no fraud here. Quit the non-sense, Flutter.

This,

Actually falsely accusing someone of racism is very much illegal. (even over the internet)

First, no it's not. Second, I didn't; that kind of accusation of violated "civil laws" at the whim of the accuser is directly out of the sovereign citizen movement, which is its own kind of crazy.

 

[Longtooths]

Merlin,

I'm curious, are you telling them as a mod to stop posting or like just a person saying stop the silliness?

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

...and the person that betrayed his/her fellow staff members and published the internal communication is a treacherous creature and a shame for this community!

Reckon this let's us know you came down on the NSA's side when Snowden let us all know how severely they were abusing their power.. smh

Just my .02...


Anyone who let's their personal opinion of person A's actions in game or on another board lead them to wanting to take action on that person here at Stratics should immediately be removed from ANY position of power. Additionally anyone who whines that "so-and-so is making me have to remove too many posts and it is taking away from my game time" or anything along those lines should be relieved of that position as well. They are usually only in the position for the "status" or "prestige" in the first place. Ya want "status" or "prestige" go be a magician.. not a Mod... That holds true from top to bottom imho. But hey, I am just a poster *shrugs*... Stratics should only take action for what is done ON Stratics.

Now, I ain't got a dog in this fight.. that I know of I have only had very limited interactions with JC, and most of those were when HOT was raiding a spawn we were working.. but to discuss perma banning someone because they said X or Y on another forum is beyond stupid imho. Most especially when that someone is someone who seems to eat, sleep and breathe Ultima Online. Hell, in my opinion Stratics should be looking to make him an ally and align BOTH Stratics and UOGuide in some manner not talking about perma banning the dude... and that is even without taking his rather substantial donation into account..

One last thing.... Having been on staff at one point I do know how Staff does at times have to discuss situations in depth when it comes to posters but I tend to agree with Flutter in there needing to be FULL transparency by making staff forums read only. Most especially if y'all are hitting us up for cash here and there.

 

[Peekay]

Before you make any more unfounded accusations and the campaign to purchase Stratics, maybe you should go back and read about what contributing to the IndieGoGo campaign was about.

Simply discussing banning some people from an internet forum that was recently bought via a 'Go-Fund-Me' campaign doesn't constitute some type of Federal offense. Quit the non-sense, Peekay.



I'm a CPA and CFE. There is no dollar threshold needed to investigate fraud. There was also no fraud here. Quit the non-sense, Flutter.

I'm talking about the gross misrepresentation that has clearly come about since the purchase of the site. I could easily go to some "fund me because I'm a poor pleb who wants something but cant afford it so give me money" website, make up some bs about how all the money I receive will go to charity as a means of getting people to donate to me. But then if I keep that money or use it for anything other than what I claimed it would be used for when I asked for it, that's called fraud.

What am I basing all this off of? The actions and words of the current owners in direct response to the community, not just to clops or norrington but to all of us in our struggle the maintain our community. Which directly contradicts their campaign for donations to procure stratics.

 

[cobb]

 

[Flutter]

This,


First, no it's not. Second, I didn't; that kind of accusation of violated "civil laws" at the whim of the accuser is directly out of the sovereign citizen movement, which is its own kind of crazy.

I know a little bit more about the subject than the average poster. Look up internet defamation law.