Jeremy, could we have an official statement?

[Dame Judi]

How dare you speak to the playing customer base in this manner? Sweetie, at 44, I can tell you one thing - the player base your addressing will or will not pay YOUR salary - I for one, do not contribute to it,

Excuse me? You don't pay for any accounts with EA and yet you continue to post here on the boards?

What am I missing?

 

[Connor_Graham]

(3) I find no qualms with standing behind the basis of what this country was formed on.

-Ashyn

The only problem with this one is that we're talking about corporate America, and not the criminal justice system. With EA's ToS, they're covered legally for anything they do with the game.

Sorry to finally find out you left UO. I was wondering what happened to you.

 

[Ashyn]

Ah, you make a couple great points, if you no longer play UO, why the F*$% are you hear yapping on the boards for? And you reference "this country", unfortunantly we are talking about UO, a privatly owned game. Mythic can do as they like and technically, we all have to live with it, no say, no liking it.

Actually, I popped on to see what Conner was up to...he hasn't stalked me in a while and I was missing him

As for my reference to "this country," it had nothing to do with a privately held entity, it was applied to the situation and the mentality and rationale behind some of the players "mindset."

Geeze, is this that high above so many of your heads, or is it just easier to respond without thought to the discussion as it stands?


-Ashyn

 

[Ashyn]

The only problem with this one is that we're talking about corporate America, and not the criminal justice system. With EA's ToS, they're covered legally for anything they do with the game.

Sorry to finally find out you left UO. I was wondering what happened to you.

And there he is.

Now Conner, you of all people should understand I was talking about "why people would stand in defense of innocence" and that it is based on the mindset of this country and it's (brainwashing of innocent until proven guilty - ha ha ha). Now, behave and get back to stalking me...I don't want to discuss corporate America....

 

[Crysta]

You know, if you try looking down, you might realize that "high above our heads" for you is actually somewhere deep, deep underground for us.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Now, behave and get back to stalking me...I don't want to discuss corporate America....

How can I stalk ya now if you aren't playing?

And more importantly, who's gonna decorate my new house for me now?

 

[Ashyn]

smip
All your redorick here does NOT justify all the poor gameing. Just because one PAYS to play does NOT mean one can do with what they want to in the game. I aplaud Jeremy for keeping us informed.

I, for one as a vet, am pleased any time they can get rid of the CRAP that destroys our game play with their vile cheats and hacks.

How dare you if you truly are a vet for not appreceitating that hard work they do to keep our game clean.

This is NOT a democracy. This is a privately owned Domain. What THEY say goes. Or havn't you heard that yet? If one can not follow the rules here or in game.. then don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
__________________

(1) I never said, nor did I infer, that payment on a game entitles anyone to do what they want.

(2) I don't believe you're a vet - most "vets" roll their eyes as soon as someone starts babbling what a "wonderful job 'they' are doing with the game." They surely aren't the ones given it Kudos - not if they lived through Pub 7.

(3) The door did slap me in the arse but the $275 I got for my account was well worth the short-term pain, but thank you for your concern.

-Ashyn

 

[Ashyn]

You know, if you try looking down, you might realize that "high above our heads" for you is actually somewhere deep, deep underground for us.

Umm, wouldn't you mean, I should try looking up? I mean, after all, if high above your heads to me, is below you, then I would need to look up to see beneath you.

-Ashyn

 

[AEowynSP]

Yes. I do.

Are you sure?
The U'wah camp on Siege is gone and the holder of that house was hit by the ban stick.
I am now VERY concerned that one of the things I found at an IDOC , picked up off the ground or was given may be grounds for terminating my account. What can I say I am a packrat and I love grabbing things that may or may not be rare; or just because they are pretty.
I can name several dozen people I know on Siege even fellow guildmates at one time or another and people I consider friends where I would not be to suprised if this had happened to them BUT this guy NO way.

 

[Ashyn]

How can I stalk ya now if you aren't playing?

And more importantly, who's gonna decorate my new house for me now?

Please tell me you finally got your Luna house!!!!!! That would make my day! And I never said I still couldn't deco for you. My youngest still has his account. Just yell any time - you know I'm your deco beconning call girl!!!! I'd do anything for you, my personal little stalker

-Ashyn

 

[Connor_Graham]

Please tell me you finally got your Luna house!!!!!! That would make my day! And I never said I still couldn't deco for you. My youngest still has his account. Just yell any time - you know I'm your deco beconning call girl!!!! I'd do anything for you, my personal little stalker

-Ashyn

No, no Luna house yet, and am actually starting to rethink that. I was thinking more about just getting an 18x18 and continuing to run my vendors from the new location. There's one about to fall very soon, and if I get the spot, that's where I'm moving to. I have managed to get almost 2/3 of the way as far as the gold I needed for a Luna house, I just don't think I want to run my vendors in what has become a bad neighborhood.

Glad to hear there's still an account going though. You'll be hearing from me soon one way or another, whether I lean back towards a Luna house or stick with a new 18x18.

 

[Crysta]

Umm, wouldn't you mean, I should try looking up? I mean, after all, if high above your heads to me, is below you, then I would need to look up to see beneath you.

-Ashyn

More like we'd have to look down to see what you alone think is up.

 

[Ashyn]

Why is it that when you express your opinion of how an incident is handled by a rep. (the wording itself, not the topic at hand) so many instantly read between some magical line that doesn't exist and think you are defending some lude act. I'll clarify my stand one more time (although it really isn't important in the grand scheme of things).

(1) Degredation in any form toward a paying customer is a no-no in my world (but then I'm from a time when they use to check under your hood, put air in your tires and wash your windows - while some of you are from the Drive up, pump your own gas and consider driving away era). Therefore, I will stand for myself and myself alone, when I say it was wrong for Jeremy to be "appalled" at anyone's comments, especially those in defense of the players professing their innocence (good customer support would simply no express his.her opinion of player reactions). I did not say they SHOULD provide evidence to the guilty. On the contrary, I flat out stated they could not provide information on guilt and with that, it makes it understandable that some would believe the innocense of the players who state they are innocent (as there is no evidence to support otherwise - and there isn't going to be any). Too hard to follow? Just get your gas and be on your way then.

(2) I couldn't care less who was banned and who wasn't. HOWEVER, I known darn well that everyone here giving the Atta-boys has cheated in some way, shape, or form in this game. You say you haven't? Oh, please! Spare me. I have played off and on for more than 10 years and still cannot name one player who didn't exploit the system in some way. I could list a whole slew of exploits or cheats and not one person on this forum could say they didn't do at least one. Unfortunately, many of you overlook them because they don't effect the game on a grand scale..... BS! There is no gray line between right and wrong - they are what they are.

(3) As for the banning itself, while I could care less who gets banned and who doesn't...the actions taken are BS. All it did was anger players who saw buyers get the shaft and the sellers walk away scott free. You expect players not to be outraged over that? Of course you don't because a bunch of little fan bois are going to be shouting "yo go dude you rulez my world."


*rolls eyes and walks away*

-Ashyn

 

[Ashyn]

Excuse me? You don't pay for any accounts with EA and yet you continue to post here on the boards?

What am I missing?

You're missing the part where this is a STRATICS forum, not an EA forum, which means, I'm PROBABLY here reading not only UO posts, but several other forums as well - and while I may not be PAYING for an EA game right now, perhaps I was CONSIDERING re-activating one. Go figure!!!!!

Forums are the dressing room to the game....What you see here is what you'll pretty-much be wearingw hen you get there. I love to shop!

Edit: Should have added: The Mythic crew are now "stewards" of UO (as well as DAoC, and WAR). I currently have multiple copies of the CE for WAR on pre-order (we are a gaming family). You can bet your sweet butt that I'll be watching what is going on in each of these games with the player base throughout this month (and not just through this forum/site). I know Mythic employees are rough on cheaters and I respect that. What I do not respect is a rep stating a certain thing players said "appalled" them. These are things I will be "evaluating" before I dish out several hundred on Collector's editions and the subscriptions they entail. Jeremy has every right to freedom of speech, however, as a rep of the company, that was a bad move on her part. She's gotten a bit too "emotionally" involved in this topic. I, for one, will not play a game if I'm going to have to deal with someone having an emotional hissy over an issue, retorting to verbal attack. It's not appropriate.

-Ashyn

 

[Ashyn]

More like we'd have to look down to see what you alone think is up.

I think you're confused. Maybe you should just keep looking to your left and right and make sure you're keeping up with the Jones' and pay less attention to little 'ol me.

-Ashyn

 

[Ashyn]

No, no Luna house yet, and am actually starting to rethink that. I was thinking more about just getting an 18x18 and continuing to run my vendors from the new location. There's one about to fall very soon, and if I get the spot, that's where I'm moving to. I have managed to get almost 2/3 of the way as far as the gold I needed for a Luna house, I just don't think I want to run my vendors in what has become a bad neighborhood.

Glad to hear there's still an account going though. You'll be hearing from me soon one way or another, whether I lean back towards a Luna house or stick with a new 18x18.

I'll cross my fingers on the new location (18x18). You know how much I despised Luna (and its reputation). That trailer park on the south wall was the only thing worth going to Luna to see. That was hysterical - wish she would have kept that up.

Good vendors are worth going to, no matter where they are. Location won't hurt you any.

I'm out of here for the day...sun is finally starting to go down so I'm going to hit the pool. I'd be delighted to help you deco your new location...have no idea how long the youngest will keep his account going (he's considering bailing his too, he never plays), but if it's still up, I'll gladly help you any time you want. I check in Stratics once a week roughly (following War - waiting with anticipation that EA reps don't screw the game all up with their lack of good customer support - oh gee was that my point all along???). Just send me a PM. and BE GOOD!!!!

-Ashyn

 

[Cadderly]

In that vein - if you report a dupe, help us reproduce it, and then we find out you have hundreds of duped items on your account that you failed to mention... we'll thank you kindly and then ban you so hard you bounce.

Haven't bothered to read half the posts on this thread, but.... This is the type of statement that I want to hear!!! "Ban you so hard you bounce" this is the management of this game we need right now.

Some innocent accounts might get banned... What is a good ratio? Ten, Twenty, Thirty, maybe a hundred guilty to one innocent account out of 60-100 thousand? EA is fighting a uphill war against cheating. There are always going to be casaulties.

I'll toss my 8 year old accounts on the grenade if it means I can restart and play this game without cheating.

 

[chad]

The willingness of people to take secondhand protestations of innocence at face value appalls me.

saf

 

[Harb]

Good lord folks, let's all get real for just one second please. The only important thing to EA is generated revenue, from UO and every single product they offer. And Mythic, OSI, or whatever label may currently be in use, will dance to EA's tune, there isn't any other choice. Dev guys, and the "primary staff" (for lack of a better term, folks like Jeremy) love the game, as do most players. But EA is not wrong to demand results and revenue from them, and they are not wrong to comply. We need them to or no more UO, and we're all losers.

This only matters because no matter whom we choose to believe or our sensibilties regarding justice or uninformed qualitative assessment of OSI's systemic prowess, account banning leads to short term loss of revenue for EA, and no matter where we stand - we should all be able to agree that this is a big deal for anyone under EA's umbrella. We should also remenber there is a process for appeal, and from Jeremy's comments she has seen at least some detailed information regarding at least some of the bannings (BTW Jeremy you might want to calm down a little, this one has seemingly gotten under your skin).

An aside, but a true story to highlight how important accounts are to EA. A few years back, there was was an unadvertised break in bug on a certain house type. The Mrs. and I got hit, and through the marvel of hidden characters knew they were coming back for more. Timing was good as at that time, I knew and ICQed the game's senior producer, who showed up hidden with his red robed "character" to observe the cheaters. And yep, caught 'em red handed. After a stern talking to in jail, they were shaken but then on their merry exploiting/ cheating ways (and a couple of them are still around). You see, even the lead guy for the game did not have the authority to ban, despite a desire to do so. There were surprisingly different organizational paths, support, dev, marketing, etc all with differing "chains of command" if you will. And active accounts, in a day when there were far more than now, were a sacred cow.

Bottom line, I'm certain this was not taken lighty, and handled as seriously as capabilities/ limitations/ talents allowed. If you were "wronged," try Jeremy and the appeals process, all want your account active if there is a reasonable doubt.

 

[Yalp]

Haven't bothered to read half the posts on this thread, but.... This is the type of statement that I want to hear!!! "Ban you so hard you bounce" this is the management of this game we need right now.

Some innocent accounts might get banned... What is a good ratio? Ten, Twenty, Thirty, maybe a hundred guilty to one innocent account out of 60-100 thousand? EA is fighting a uphill war against cheating. There are always going to be casaulties.

I'll toss my 8 year old accounts on the grenade if it means I can restart and play this game without cheating.

I'll be happy to meet you to take your stuff off your hands before they ban your account as the 1 innocent amongst the whatever number of guilty ones.

Yalpers!

 

[Gwendar-SP]

If they're legit, you're safe. If you earned them yourself - whatever "they" are - you're fine.

Thats good to know.

I can think of several problems with last weekend. Folks don't know what is safe to buy and what isn't. You can say one can look at the inventory but that is no protection. Items could be bought and resold. Items could come from an IDOC. Things like checks get passed around - ie, someone dupes some checks, sells them or buys items so someone else gets some of the checks, they buy stuff with them so someone else has the checks, and on and on. That is what happens in an economy.

In the case of items, EA has made it EXTREEMLY dangerous to buy anything.

EA seem to be very good at making mistakes. If they weren't than the problem of item duping wouldn't exist.

Am not sure but it seems like the "OSI owned houses" that you folks were in the process of cleaning up were the results of accounts being in dispute for some reason. If this is so, then in the past a person had some way of getting the account cleared? This time the houses and contents were destroyed so that if an error is found in the judgement there is no recovery.

 

[A Slime]

I'm just throwing this one out there.

Fixing the dupes in a timely fashion might be a good idea. The most recent dupe from what I've heard, went on for..... about 2 months, easily, probably longer. From what I understand it isn't even fixed yet, sure you hit a few accounts that were associated, but you don't even know how the dupe works..... That's pretty bad.

Think about this: why don't you try running a script on the transfer program.... when more two or more of the same item ID are about to be transfered it flags those items? You know that is how duped items are made into different item ids right? Otherwise, anyone moving across a "server boundary" will have their dupes deleted. (this is what happens when you cross server lines with two of the same item id; if they can't recall, gate, or cross any server boundary with items, then they can't sell these, if they can't change the item ids at all the items are stuck in one spot, and then you just run a lil script searching for multiples of the same item id) All it takes is a little bit of enginuity from the team to prevent dupes. Of course, you stated yourself that you guys can't even determine which houses are owned by OSI..... Yet at the same time players can set up websites that catalogue every item for sale on every vendor inside and outside of luna, and ANYWHERE else in Sosaria if you register your shop ..... The..... Easy Uoers...... are better than you..... Maybe you should team up with Cheffe.... He's a smart guy.

Seriously, it shouldn't be hard to implement anti dupe measures into the game. You could do it in less than a week if you took the initiative.

Banning people for buying runics (which are highly desirable) isn't the route you need to be taking on this one Jeremy. The damage is done, there are multitudes of armor/weapons that have been created through duped runics, you can't delete now, the player base will go nuts. Distinguishing between legit barbed armor, or duped barbed armor is impossible anyways. The innocent guy with 160 duped items on his account? Yea, that's a relatively SMALL number in terms of dupes, sadly.

Secondly, you need to make an official statement either through UO.com or through an in game pop up that displays when you log in, not through stratics, a set of boards that aren't even related to uo, nor should they ever have been the source for all our UO news. Most other games have their own forums, supported by their own staff, on their own websites.....(we had to start paying 12.99 for subscription and the supposed reason was "EMs", now that EMs are gone..... maybe we should get some uo forums on uo.com. Not that you SPECIFICALLY have any say as to what EA spends their/our money on)

Thirdly, you should get GMs that aren't complete tools.... Most of these guys don't understand the game whatsoever. I recently had an aquintance of mine pulled to jail for standing on a ledge in Luna. The GM claimed he got there by.... "An Anomaly" (what is this quantum physics? No, it's a 2d game LOL with an x,y,and z axis)..... You know.... it wasn't that he teleported twice.... CLEARLY he was cheating. Your response to this: Email GM review..... Yea I know, that doesn't and never has done anything, because there are a steady supply of tools for hire out there.

 

[Ken of Napa]

Information does not warrant degredation.

You really should have read my post to see that I was (1) not debating whether or not players should or should not have been banned. (2) known that I no longer play UO so I have no need to "leave." (3) I find no qualms with standing behind the basis of what this country was formed on.

-Ashyn

Sounds like someone posting on a game they don't even play? Why is that? Really looking like you're only here to stir up some trouble. I wonder why?

 

[RaDian FlGith]

If you have information you think we need, by all means pass it along!

Actually, at THIS point, I think YOU have information for us, because the way it's sounding, if we do happen to purchase duped items, and we don't know they're duped, we can -- and very welll may -- be banned.

I do have serious issue with that if that is the case.

So please clarify: Are the banned people folks who actually participated IN the duping, or did they simply BUY duped items?

The answer to this question is going to be of severe importance to my (and I suspect many others) future with EA Mythic and Ultima Online.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

You're wrong, Theo. Banning the traders - and getting the items out of circulation - is at least as important as banning the accounts that did the duping.

No, Jeremy, you're wrong, unless you can provide proof that the traders were actually aware that they were involved in the process.

If you can tell us you are CERTAIN they knew what they were purchasing/trading, then fine... but I happen to have friends (none of which who were banned that I'm aware of) who spend time going to vendors, finding cheap items, and then selling them at what market value is. Now, to my knowledge, none of them are buying anything in bulk, it's typically one-offs at a vendor off the beaten track who probably didn't know what the item was really worth, but it still raises a valid question that you at EA have FAILED HORRIBLY at answering:

How in the hell are WE supposed to know if an item is duped? It's NOT like you put [Duped] in the item description.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

That is a scenario. Consider an alternate scenario:

Player A dupes 50 barbed kits.

Player A splits them into stacks of ten and distributes them to trusted accounts (different billing and IPs) B,C,D,E,F.

Those accounts now put the kits up for sale and collect the profits, routing them to account G.

This is a terribly common setup. How do we, as a company, distinguish between your scenario and mine? Between the unwitting patsies and the knowing collaborators, or the shell accounts with spoofed IPs?

Okay, you need to clarify this then:

Did you track these items through their progression?

IE: Player A created and gave to Player B, C, D, E, F?
Or Player A SOLD to Player B, C, D, E, F?

And Players B, C, D, E, F were each actively SELLING these items?
Or Players B, C, D, E, F were in POSSESSION of these items?

And then Player B, C, D, E, F transfered funds to Player G?
Or you're presuming that's what happened?

Because right now, it seems like you guys have put a lot of guesswork into this, and not a lot of actual solid anything.

Short answer is, we cannot determine intent. We have to go on data and numbers. It's not perfect - it'll never be perfect - but it's what we have.

Then what you have is a system that can ban innocent players based solely on number items alone, without showing any history of what actually happened to those items. If you're truly tracking them, you should have a trail for each item. I somehow doubt you are though.

(And come on, folks - the vendor with 30 val hammers? Or the one with a single one, for cheap, that never seems to run out of stock? DON'T BUY THOSE.)

I'm sorry, but you're asking us players to make determinations as to what is and is not duped, and that's absolutely ridiculous. If you're going to continue to make player vendors available, and you're going to continue to allow players to make purchases, then you cannot hold players responsible for WHAT they purchase simply because you think we should all know whether or not they're duped.

If I purchased a valorite hammer from a vendor once a week for five weeks, it sounds like it'd be enough to ban me. You're presuming that I know what market average is, that I would know whether or not it's possible to get more than one valorite hammer in a week through BOD playing (especially considering the current methods for getting BODs in play), and that I'd have stopped back multiple times in a week, noticed how quickly they were being replenished, et cetera. Or that I happen to read every thread on a message board.

I'm unlikely to be affected by this simply by virtue of what I happen to do in game, and the fact that I rarely spend money on stuff -- except that since I have a museum that has community rares in it (thank god most of them have been given to me or I have actually earned them myself), and should I happen to buy one too many that was somehow duped, and I didn't think to myself, "Wow, that's got to be duped," that I might someday find myself on the end of a ban stick really makes me want to beat you to the punch.

You've essentially begun the Salem witch hunt in UO, and you're using carrot noses tied around the faces of some folks as an excuse to burn them. Meanwhile, some duper standing around is shouting, "Well, I did the nose, but she's still a witch!"

​

 

[RaDian FlGith]

I cannot. It's a violation of our privacy policy.

Then get a new privacy policy, because it's ridiculous that you have to keep "private" information about "anonymous users" that none of the rest of us know.

 

[THP]

Owning a ''Glacial Spell Books'' will get ya banned iam sure!!!

I used to see a couple of players on Europa parading there glacial spell book at the wbb/ and luna bank.....

Well !!!! im pretty sure this is an OBVOIUS duped item so i stayed well clear of em ...even though there was one for sale in Luna for ages at about 25m!!

KInda anyone with one of these iam pretty sure will have been banned!! and lets be frank dont moan about it if u did...it was a plain simple duped item that u aquired by duping or buying knowing full well it was a duped item u were buying!! [end of story]

 

[RaDian FlGith]

EA should trace trades.
Even in WoW they can trace trade into the smallest detail.

Apparently that would take programming. Something that EA doesn't seem to have a lot of staff devoted to doing. Even though we don't have a unique name system, we all carry a unique ID on each of our characters, so it makes me wonder why there isn't some greater tracking system available in the 10 years that UO has existed.

Then again, I'm also curious why we don't have a lot of things...

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Take a walk around Luna and do a little comparison shopping just like anyone that was about to spend multi millions on a runic would do.

I dunno man, I'm not sure that's enough, because I bought a 110 med scroll the other day to slap on my character... bought it for 35k. Seemed low to me, but then, the other stuff the guy had on his vendor was similarly priced. I ran down the street to the next vendor that had power scrolls, saw that it was running a 110 med at about 125k, and I thought, "I'll go buy the cheap one." So I did. I went back, bought it, and used it.

Never once did it enter my mind that the guy had duped the scroll. I figured that he was probably someone who did champ spawns frequently, and probably had a bunch of 110 meds sitting around.

If I'm going to have to over-analyze every purchase I make, then I'm probably not going to purchase. I don't spend money that often that I'm going to go running all over god's green earth looking to see what the average price of something is.

And yeah, that means I've bought something, because I felt it was a good deal, and then walked to the other side of Luna and found I could have bought the same thing for half the price.

*shrug*

I'm still not comfortable with EA's beating of the carpet with cats.

 

[RoycroftLS]

No, Jeremy, you're wrong, unless you can provide proof that the traders were actually aware that they were involved in the process.

The devs could make every duped item in the game come with the tag "If you buy this duped item off this vendor, you will be banned", and people would still complain after being banned because the game let them purchase it off a vendor.

At some point the responsibility rests on the player to be aware of the consequences of his or her actions. Players shouldn't have to be explicitly told to not possess more high-level items than could ever be acquired through fair gameplay.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Either way, it should be blatantly obvious if a valorite runic is priced at 15 mil, it's duped.

You say that as though most of us would know that to be true. Honestly, were it not for this thread here, I wouldn't have the first clue that 15 mil is a bargain.

Then again, I also wouldn't have more than 15 mil to buy one, because while I do plan to start selling some stuff, I haven't been a big seller, and aside from once having 18 mil from selling an 18x18 in Malas back in the day (and then blowing 15 of that 18 on a property in Trammel that was only 15x14, but right where I wanted it to be), I think the max gold I've had on my account has been maybe 4 mil tops.

 

[Black Betty]

In that vein - if you report a dupe, help us reproduce it, and then we find out you have hundreds of duped items on your account that you failed to mention... we'll thank you kindly and then ban you so hard you bounce.

So, basically this makes me think that folks were "reporting" the dupes/exploits while believing that they were safe from being investigated since they were the ones reporting them.

Knowing that there were two people that had their ban reversed for honestly being innocent, then there is the possibility that IF you are innocent you will find your account open again.

While I have my own negative opinion about EA at times, they seem to have been fair and admitted when they were wrong and removed a ban for folks that were HONESTLY innocent. If I remember correctly, it was made public that two people were innocent and they reversed the ban.

I am just not sure how saying the same thing over and over again will bring that justice to fruition.

 

[Ashyn]

Sounds like someone posting on a game they don't even play? Why is that? Really looking like you're only here to stir up some trouble. I wonder why?

EA stirs up enough trouble on their own. I couldn't put a dent in the trouble they make on their own accord, so I wouldn't bother.

As for the game, yeah ...don't really no too much about UO...it's that game with the chickens right?

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Every unique item has it's own code...and every duped item has a code aswell that makes it clear that it's a dupe.

Sort of similar to..files on your computer.

mother item : example1 (this item is the first kind of this item)
unique item : example1A
duped item : example1A001 , example1A002

(sort of the same thing your computer does when it makes an EXACT copy of a file...it gives it nearly the same name but add extra characters cause the names cannot be intirely the same)

Just imagen more numbers...but this is just a very easy example that doesn't raise too much confusion.

Of course i understand that the item data base of Uo is massive.
And that it's nearly an impossible job to check all of them.

Unfortunately, the only reason your computer does that is that it's been programmed to do so. The natural instinct of a computer is NOT to create duplicate items -- it either overwrites a file or tells you it can't. Windows simply overrides that instinct and names it something unique for you (and ONLY if you're doing the whole copy/paste thing).

A database typically is assigned a unique value based on the next available number in the database -- which means a duped item would have a new item number.

If I were to be building this system, I'd have an item include its parent item in a separate table, a table that is only written to at creation, and which is written to by the item that creates the sub item. So if it's turning in a BOD (ID 90210 - TYPE 901), the BOD (90210:901), as it's being removed creates item Valorite Hammer (ID 123456 - TYPE 211), and enters (ID 123456 - TYPE 211, PARENT 90210 - TYPE 901) in another table. Then you could see what items basically appeared out of nowhere, because at very least, the process would either indicate what created the item (which, if it turned out to be a bank box, or just a null, would send a flag of mismatch creation type), or at very least, not be listed in that second table.

Unfortunately, I don't think they took much time in designing the system in the first place, and no one's take the time to correct it, because if you were receiving items through a dupe that at very least checked to see if the item in question was being created by the process or item type in question, the system could be programmed to stop itself from duping, and it could be programmed to clean itself up during maintainance, it could track who bought what and when, and could even reverse transactions back to the beginning of the dupe, all automatically.

But then, I don't work for EA. I just understand certain aspects of logic.

 

[Lucy of Kenton]

jeremy why? you know vanguard had a great idea when you create a char its solely yours no one else can hold the name or duplicate it. why have you done this to so many people that have done nothing wrong. Most of us run vendors houses we buy and we resell. How are we to know it duped? your own rules state about the suspension in 12 24 and i think 72 hour banns. Yet you have terminated account that were innocent people. You say you investigate things. if so how come so many people that done nothing but by a product off a vendor were nail. I myself was nailed in this my account never duped never used a illegal program in 4 years yer im terminated for what buying bod kit hammers. Most that run vendor houses keep massive back stock on hand.Yet you look at it as were duping. when were not. why are innocent people paying the price for the people that do run them. This is not good public relations for this game its negative. Word travels fast in the game world to you really think after this i will suggest to anyone to play this game after whats been done to my account? What was running thru your head? why cant you keep the dupers out of this game. I myself left a year ago to play vanguard Why because of these reasons 1 your name yours no one else can have it 2 caught duping perma bann 3 and the gm do there job they come to you it not automated like uo is Seems to me what your trying to do is shut your own game down. You need to address this instead of hiding behind your monitor. you have innocent people with house terminated for no reason as you can see many are upset with your actions you took .Assumption has and always will play uo as a fool for you cant stop them and until you can theres always going to be the bad one making us innocent people pay the price . on this one ill give you a thumbs down because uo did not do the homework in the proper fashion it should have be done in .YOU NEED TO COME OT OF HIDING AND ADDESS US MR JEREMY

No your not innocent. If your buying even just one Val hammer at the prices there being dumped at you cant stand there and let every one think you didnt know it was duped.

Ofcorse there duped You knew that we all know that heck anybody who took the time to earn one the honest way sure to heck isnt going to try and sell it for what there going for atm.

The person who duped the hammer is as quilty as the person who bught it. just like in real life you can go to jail for buying stolen goods. Its about time UO starts baning the buyers as well maybe now people will stop buying the stuff and leave no more reason for the dupers to dupe anymore!!

ok then raj, my acct had no runics on it whatsoever so please tell me why i got the ban asyou seem to know
as a practicing lawyer (solicitor) and erstwhile police officer the law usually needs evidence and then the defence put forward a case for innocence or extenuating circumstances and the prosecution have to actually prove things. this is not what ea have done. many of us now have said put it in the public domain the evidence you have but they wont. does this not suggest to you that this evidence may not be very strong and thats is why they wont?

 

[RaDian FlGith]

At some point the responsibility rests on the player to be aware of the consequences of his or her actions. Players shouldn't have to be explicitly told to not possess more high-level items than could ever be acquired through fair gameplay.

Okay, but what exactly defines fair gameplay? Me, I don't see how anyone manages to acquire enough points to buy anything from the collections, and yet, they do. Because some people have a lot more time on their hands than I do.

I'm just saying that since they're not going to publish details because it might help the dupers -- which, of course, means that they're probably aware of additional potential dupes -- then we're left to make a whole bunch of judgement calls on our own, which basically lead to "if it's a high end item, don't buy it, because it could be duped."

And how aware of the state of the game are we supposed to be. There are a lot of things that go on in game that I'm not privy to, because I don't play nearly as much as I used to. But it still leaves me wondering "How'm I supposed to know?" Because while I like to sit and spout on message boards while I'm at work or at school taking a break, when I am at home, I prefer to play, not just sit around figuring out HOW I should play.

That said, I'm unlikely to ever be banned for possessing duped items. It doesn't mean I shouldn't be concerned about what seems to be a broadstroke policy for banning, not to mention one that is inconsistent.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

And, Jeremy, I would still LOVE to know why people with banned accounts are still able to play -- if you feel that strongly about this whole ban policy, aren't ALL accounts associated with a player supposed to be banned?

Or are these people professing that they still can play all lying about that too?

 

[Theo_GL]

So... when we apply the reasonable person test to this situation, it should be abundantly clear when an item such as a valorite hammer is being sold for well below market value. A reasonable person should be expected to know exactly what he is doing. Of course, we've seen lots of people that got caught holding the bag and claiming that they were wrongly punished only to find that they knew exactly what they were doing and didn't expect to get nailed.

I say make an example out of these clowns. Teach people that they have to play by the rules if they want to play.

No no and no.

What if a dupe is sold at FAIR MARKET PRICE?

The statement that any item 'sold at below market price is probably a dupe' is about the stupidest statement of the week. There are always legit items sold below market prices. Every single thing I sell on my vendors is this way. Why? Because I dupe? No, because I don't want to pay vendor fees. If it normally goes for 3 mil - I sell for 2.5. It doesn't last a day. Fine. I pay no vendor fees.

That is a stupid assinine statement.

If you think for a minute what EA is doing to combat this problem is appropriate than you are drunk.

Not once did Jeremy mention anything about nailing/busting the dupers. Its all been about 'removing the items' which most of us know are long gone from the dupers accts as soon as they dupe them.

Once again, they are getting the wrong people. Thats the issue.

To say that 'oh you should have known that the vendor bargain means it was duped' is stupid.

When dupers drop the prices of something - honest sellers do to to compete. The entire market shifts lower because of the artificial expansion of hte supply with the same demand curve. Its basic economics. You cannot then determine if what you are buying is duped or not. Some are legit and some are not and your UO client shows them the same.

And if this 'multitude of illegal items' is really runics then I have to simply laugh at EA. From my understanding the bug involved duping bods that then are turned in for legit runics. If they are banning on runics then then are banning on a 'multitude of legal items' that they don't believe you got legally. Thats just going 3 steps too far.

Jeremy and the rest of the dev team - i'd sharpen up my resume and submit it to Best Buy. Maybe you can get a job selling TV's. Your going to need it when UO closes shop.

 

[Theo_GL]

Unfortunately, the only reason your computer does that is that it's been programmed to do so. The natural instinct of a computer is NOT to create duplicate items -- it either overwrites a file or tells you it can't. Windows simply overrides that instinct and names it something unique for you (and ONLY if you're doing the whole copy/paste thing).

A database typically is assigned a unique value based on the next available number in the database -- which means a duped item would have a new item number.

If I were to be building this system, I'd have an item include its parent item in a separate table, a table that is only written to at creation, and which is written to by the item that creates the sub item. So if it's turning in a BOD (ID 90210 - TYPE 901), the BOD (90210:901), as it's being removed creates item Valorite Hammer (ID 123456 - TYPE 211), and enters (ID 123456 - TYPE 211, PARENT 90210 - TYPE 901) in another table. Then you could see what items basically appeared out of nowhere, because at very least, the process would either indicate what created the item (which, if it turned out to be a bank box, or just a null, would send a flag of mismatch creation type), or at very least, not be listed in that second table.

Unfortunately, I don't think they took much time in designing the system in the first place, and no one's take the time to correct it, because if you were receiving items through a dupe that at very least checked to see if the item in question was being created by the process or item type in question, the system could be programmed to stop itself from duping, and it could be programmed to clean itself up during maintainance, it could track who bought what and when, and could even reverse transactions back to the beginning of the dupe, all automatically.

But then, I don't work for EA. I just understand certain aspects of logic.

Yeah, but then you are assuming EA is at an even basic level of modern computing. Given various statements in the past - I have serious doubts their items are even stored in a database.

They did implement the Unique Item ID a few years back but they have no parent/child ability with bods.

I mean - if they had a REAL database with a REAL relational data model would portable forges, no draw tiles and other crap that is supposed to be illegal ever exist?

Delete from player_items where item_type = 'Forge'
Commit;

The fact that they cannot even police rares that are illegal tells you that its either not in a database or in a very very poorly constructed one where they cannot tell legit items from illegal versions.

 

[gjohnson5]

It seems that mayhem has resulted from some of the recent actions that EA/Mythic has taken in regards to illegal actions in the game by players. One would also gather that EA/Mythic have lost a portion of control of their game.

Being a veteran player who left, and then returned it is in my personal interest to know if the game that I am interested in supporting is stable and at least policed to prevent gross abuses such as "duping" and "hacking".

With my accounts coming up for renewal soon, I would request a statement from EA/Mythic on the nature of the recent bannings and the actions the company is taking to insure the game is secure. I wouldn't think it prudent to support a game that is "out of control" in these areas.

We Banned you cheaters
Tough tittie...

Have a Nice Day,
Jeremy


LOLOLOLOL

 

[Experimental]

Check the Herald. And yes. possession of dupes can get you banned. We don't ban for one or two - although, as with the Vine Cords, we'll make no guarantees that we won't cause them to disappear - but possessing them in quantity is a good way to get banned.[/QUOTE

One or two of the same items or one or two different duped items??
And how are we to know when we buy an item from a vendor or pick up something at an IDOC whether or not that throws us into the "multitude" category?
I haven't been banned, I don't dupe, I don't do BODs, the only runics I have are copper and bronze from IDOCs and some agapites from the blackrock turn-in and one bkit I was given by a well known and very reputable dealer as a kind of "compensation" that he couldn't get my item to me the same day I bought it.
The only arties I have are a few from IDOCs, Anti Virtue dungeons, Vesper museum and Doom and this mass banning, with it's lack of explanation and clarification and guarantees I won't be buying a damn thing from vendors, friends, brokers, dealers, the EA store or anyone else again and I won't be doing IDOCs either....in fact, I may not play at all.

 

[Amber Moon]

The base issue is deeper then this. It is a matter of whether an individual player trusts that EA/Mythic did or will do things correctly.

Its kind of like a political confidence rating. And I think that the EA/Mythic rating was not so high to begin with for many and this has done nothing to improve it. Which would have been the point of taking the action in the first place because player confidence about cheaters was what they were trying to address.

Those that trust them or did so to begin with seem to continue to. Those with whom the trust was not so good to begin with seem to be less so now.

One has to say: net failure.

 

[Haddy G]

I completely support UO on this. The traders are just as guilty and deserved to be banned. I don't care if you thought it was fair market price to buy a massive amount of high end items. Everyone knows there is duping going on.

Hell if I got banned I would just move on, of course I don't cheat or exploit the game/UO market.

And if you really are innocent and got banned, well I recommend Eve Online, fun game

 

[THP]

WELL i think Idocs are gonna be a grey area for sure...

THE ONLY WAY AROUND THIS IS TO STOP HOUSE DECAYING AS WE KNOW IT AND JUST DELETE THEM AND EVERYTHING INSIDE AS THEY FALL...

Then its no longer grey area because u will no longer pick a dropped chest up with 100 doom artis inside or 50 barbed kits inside etc etc.

[the end]

 

[Yalp]

I completely support UO on this. The traders are just as guilty and deserved to be banned. I don't care if you thought it was fair market price to buy a massive amount of high end items. Everyone knows there is duping going on.

Hell if I got banned I would just move on, of course I don't cheat or exploit the game/UO market.

And if you really are innocent and got banned, well I recommend Eve Online, fun game

Can I have your stuff before you get innocently swept up and out? Again.. huge ass-hat assumptions being made about who knew about the duping and which items were duped.

Yalpers!

 

[Lucy of Kenton]

taken away as forgot to quote jeremy

 

[Lucy of Kenton]

The willingness of people to take secondhand protestations of innocence at face value appalls me.

jeez u are morally bankrupt! you have no irrefutable evidence on most of us. carry on and ruin uo or is that your purpose? to close uo down? if so you will get promotion the great way you are doing it. if you have evidence then post it here. tell me and the rest of uo what illegal stuff i had in abundance?
pity some of these secondhand protesters that 'appall' you know more of us than you do!
oh hang on i may jeopardise my chance of being reinstated!
maybe go away and try playing uo and then you may indeed see who are the real cheaters as most of us could tell you.
as for the bannings? we are all guilty?
a mind is of no use whatsoever unless its open. and the only way im going to be reinstated is if you admit a mistake and frankly what chance is there of that?

 

[Black Betty]

and the only way im going to be reinstated is if you admit a mistake and frankly what chance is there of that?

Again, two people had bans reversed when they were found to be innocent and just caught in the 'net' that was thrown out there.

While I am aware that this is incredibly frusterating, even for those of us that haven't had a ban and are now paranoid), there must be a better way to handle this. Obviously, poor-mouthing EA/Jeremy isn't changing anything. Persistence seems to be the key from earlier reverses of an innocent banning. They were persistent and patient knowing they would be vindicated.

While I really do not know you very well, Lucy, I would wager that if you are innocent, it will be brought to light.

 

[Haddy G]

Can I have your stuff before you get innocently swept up and out? Again.. huge ass-hat assumptions being made about who knew about the duping and which items were duped.

Yalpers!

If you have the gold to buy the duped items, then you know items are being duped. Doesn't matter what items.

It's a old game, those who got banned will get over it and if they don't then such is life.

Yes, you can have all my crap if I get innocently banned, I won't be here belly aching about it. I have many other hobbies to take up my time