Define "Classic Shard"

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

"Don't look back. You can never look back." ...

"Those
who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana

 

[Vyal]

Who cares just play UO till it is dead and buried.

OR

I suggest you go buy a 360 and start playing live. Your Avatar is depressing btw.

Honestly threads like this are what ruin the game for other people it starts good like ya classic shard. Then you get some idiot who comes posting about UO is dead. Wow....

 

[AesSedai]

"Those
who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana

- So along those lines it seems like you would agree that they should not bugger with a classic shard either, since Richard Garriott and many of our past Developers have agreed that it was a failed social experiment due to many factors that were unaccounted for? For afterall, history has taught us that classic failed for a reason and that is why our past developers had to change it.

I know, I know, you already stated you do not think a classic shard would work in the present time, and I agree.

But I disagree that UO died once Trammel was created... because we are both still here playing it. Sure, in hindsight they could've accomodated for the errors that forced the change in a much better manner; but that's not how it happened, so now would be a good time to try to focus on how to improve what currently is rather than further lament for what is gone...

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

- So along those lines it seems like you would agree that they should not bugger with a classic shard either, since Richard Garriott and many of our past Developers have agreed that it was a failed social experiment due to many factors that were unaccounted for?

The Experiment did not fail, just the rats.

For afterall, history has taught us that classic failed for a reason and that is why our past developers had to change it.

Exactly. It has taught us alll that gamers want a "cheat mode" a "god code" they wish to earn nothing...they wish to see the "end game" with no risk. Such is society today.

But I disagree that UO died once Trammel was created... because we are both still here playing it. Sure, in hindsight they could've accomodated for the errors that forced the change in a much better manner; but that's not how it happened, so now would be a good time to try to focus on how to improve what currently is rather than further lament for what is gone...

You mistake my statement as a lament. What is gone is gone. R.I.P. Ultima Online...what happens to the license now that Mystic/EA owns it...that is another matter altogether.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Your Avatar is depressing btw.

Good. Very good.

 

[kalzaketh]

If, you got the pre shard, and few, decided to showup, how would you try to fill it?as I see more than afew posts trying to draw players to siege, I think the rose tinted glasses, should be discarded,it seems preren is avocal minority at best.

 

[AesSedai]

- So along those lines it seems like you would agree that they should not bugger with a classic shard either, since Richard Garriott and many of our past Developers have agreed that it was a failed social experiment due to many factors that were unaccounted for?

The Experiment did not fail, just the rats.

- You can say it didn't all you want, but history and the developers (the creators of said experiment) have declared that it did indeed fail; to be a creator and admit to failure speaks volumes, regardless of whether others accept the hard truth.

For afterall, history has taught us that classic failed for a reason and that is why our past developers had to change it.

Exactly. It has taught us alll that gamers want a "cheat mode" a "god code" they wish to earn nothing...they wish to see the "end game" with no risk. Such is society today.

- Actually it seems to have taught the original developers, as well as myself, that some people will take every advantage possible to feel superior in a semi-anonymous environment, one such as online gaming provides, even if that is the equivalent of self destruction of said environment.... It seems that chivalry often fails when one's ego can occasionally prevail; and I agree with R Garriott that that is a sad realization.

...What is gone is gone. R.I.P. Ultima Online...what happens to the license now that Mystic/EA owns it...that is another matter altogether.

- Marc Jacobs does not run Mythic anymore, so Mythic must be different than it has historically been, without him at the helm any longer; and EA always owned Origin from the time that UO began being funded and developed (although I will always agree that Origin was a great company & remained a uniquely creative entity even after EA acquired them)...
For good or for bad, it is undeniable that: things evolve...
~Experience may change during online play

 

[BlackMagus]

Why does everyone claim this, while it's blatantly untrue...?

Well, maybe because we have the orginal designers thoughts on the subject available for every one to go read. If everyone spent a little time over at Raph's blog reserching his various UO comments, perhaps we could elevate the discussion to what people want in the shard instead of 'what was'.

http://www.raphkoster.com/

Well, maybe you read your own links before posting...

Postman77: What is the breaking point for a online game community, could a totally PvPfree environment or a totally rules-free environment ever function properly enough to makesuch a game or system viable? Or would a totally PK free environment be successful on thewhole?

DesignerD: I don't actually think a completely PK-free environment can develop very far.
...

http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/crpgtavern.shtml

 

[Kiminality]

Postman77: What is the breaking point for a online game community, could a totally PvPfree environment or a totally rules-free environment ever function properly enough to makesuch a game or system viable? Or would a totally PK free environment be successful on thewhole?

DesignerD: I don't actually think a completely PK-free environment can develop very far.
...

http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/crpgtavern.shtml

And he then goes on to say that a completely rules-free environment doesn't work any better:

A rules-free environment has the opposite problem, of course. It attracts a bunch ofpeople who spend all their time doing nothing but killing each other.
You'd hope that in such an environment players would band together, formgovernments, police the world, etc.
Sadly, they don't.

 

[Drakhan]

If I was asked I would say P15 just without Trammel. That was the last time I had real fun.

 

[Amber Moon]

Keep reading. There is a much later article in there somewhere about lots of UO issues. Including why they decided to add Trammel and a discussing stat loss etc.

But regardless, these are only the original developers thoughts. The question that I think folks have to look at it who your going to attract back to the game with such a shard and bring account fees with them to pay for the development and operation. Yes, shard switchers and the potential for extended subscriptions count for some, but the red meat has to be returning players.

That is why I lean towards a pre-ren shard, even though I would never play one myself.

Edited to add:

I will go one step further and suggest a couple of Pre-Ren shards that have a F2p/RMT payment model. Subscription bonus allows transfer of a character or two off to other shards. That might bring a little media buzz and life to the old war horse of a game.

 

[Multani]

Edited to add:

I will go one step further and suggest a couple of Pre-Ren shards that have a F2p/RMT payment model. Subscription bonus allows transfer of a character or two off to other shards. That might bring a little media buzz and life to the old war horse of a game.

Are you suggesting players should be allowed to transfer a character to a classic server? There should be absolutely no transferring of characters to or from this shard, ever.

 

[Amber Moon]

Are you suggesting players should be allowed to transfer a character to a classic server? There should be absolutely no transferring of characters to or from this shard, ever.

No, transfer off it to a current shard if it is F2P/RMT and they buy a sub.

 

[Sunchicken]

The only way i would go back to a classic server is if there was non con PVP and stealing.
Im not a griefer, but it would get boring fast if there wasnt the threat of loosing your gold / magic weps.


Order/Chaos and or factions are a must...

 

[Sargon]

No, transfer off it to a current shard if it is F2P/RMT and they buy a sub.

I doubt that a classic shard could be free to play. What would EA's incentive be for creating a free server? The only way UO could ever become free (of a monthly subscription) would be if they pushed micro-transactions beyond the current scope and started selling items/gold that people actually need. That type of micro-transactions on a classic shard would defeat the purpose.

 

[Punkte]

So could we have this up and running by say...tomorrow? Thanks!

 

[Nexus]

Pre-AOS, definitely. AOS was when they changed all the weapons and armor, put in power scrolls, changed the way all the skills worked so that magic resist didn't resist all magic, meditation didn't always work at GM, you needed 120 magery to not fizzle instead of GM, the odds of making an exceptional plate chest at GM decreased from 50% to 5%, PvP was unbalanced, crafting was ruined, the weapons and armor became a mismatched, overcomplicated mess, gave the NPC vendors a lobotomy so we couldn't lure them out of town and kill them and stopped them from having items in their backpacks that could be stolen, changed all of the monster loot tables so that they were all in the RNG system instead of each monster having a separate loot table, installed the massively overcomplicated BOD system, made every monster corpse spawn random junk, instead of most of them just having gold, changed the loot system for treasure chests so that even the level 6 chests mostly just produce junk items that would spawn on a skeleton, stopped mages from needing regs, made lockpickers fail most of the time at GM skill level, made all the crafting tools wear out after a number of uses, while introducing PoF so that the weapons and armor we made never wear out, introduced overpowered artifacts that only a few tamers could get for the whole first year, etc., etc., etc.; basically, if anything worked well, they "fixed" it till it didn't.

I liked the UO:R additions of chivalry and necro, but they did unbalance PvP somewhat. I also liked the concept of insurance, but NOT the way it was implemented. I would have much preferred an extremely expensive, hard-to-get item bless deed like the spring cleaning '99 ones.

WTF?
Power Scrolls came in during LBR along with the rest of Pub 16.

The BOD System started with Blacksmith BODs during the Third Dawn Time frame, Tailoring BOD were added with Publish 16 during LBR.
RNG systems started getting dropped with Third Dawn and UO:LBR as new creatures started dropping special materials, namely Controllers, and Juka, but the Orc Invasions that introduced the Savages, also introduced Slayers in the form of Orcish Bows.
Should I continue with your Pre-AOS Misconceptions?

Necromancy and Chivalry didn't come until the AoS expansion not UO:R by your definition those wouldn't be in a "Classic Server" Though you said they were the best additions to UO:R.

Sweet Zombie Jesus, don't bother discussing time line based events if you don't understand or know the time line....please...

Now for my opinion...

UO:R Best Expansion UO ever had, player population started a noticeable upswing during this time, that only ended right before AoS. This was the start of the real "Golden Age" of UO, not T2A as it's population boosts defined what all other post UO/EQ MMO's were to use as part of their research data on why separation of PvP and PvE are important.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Fact is:

1. Non-consensual PvP has been a mandatory part of the game for the first 3 years
2. A major amount of development work has been invested in improving PvP in the first years
3. A major percentage of the players competed regularly in PvP

You seem to think that Origin has not been aware of the fact that not all players are willing to participate in non-consensual PvP. This is incorrect - UO derives from MUD based games which have a long history of both variants of gameplay.

All you and the others supporting this moot argument are throwing into the discussion, is the speculation that "they did not really think about PvP and the problems that would arise when they originally designed the game".

P.S.: the referenced "player justice" has only existed under a non-consensual PvP ruleset. There is no player justice in Trammel today, because it is the game mechanics that enforce justice. Think about that, and then tell me again PvP was not part of the original concept...

Please go read this as it is from Raph Koster, AKA Designer Dragon, one of the original Ultima Online developers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Ultima_Online

 

[Lug]

precast - instant hit


Find the patch that removed it then go back a patch or two, and leave it the blank alone.

 

[georgemarvin2001]

I've been thinking about the good things since AOS:
1. House customization. I enjoy being able to make my own little corner of the world whatever I want.
2. The ML dungeons are pretty cool.
3. The SA dungeon.
4. Imbuing has made crafting fun again.
5. Other playable races. Having elves and gargoyles is good. I would like to see players as orcs, drakes, wolves, ogres, trolls, dwarves, oni, lots of other choices for our characters.
6. All the new eye candy, stuff like statues, carpet, craftable house deco, etc.
7. Plants. Great idea.
8. The current crafting menus are better than the old ones were.
9. I like the new weapon and armor types. Samurai armor, lots of new weapons, etc.
10. Repair deeds. People stealing items when they were supposed to be repairing them was a big problem in the old days. I remember that somebody went to considerable trouble to make a character and give him my smith's name, dress him like my smith, then go to the Brit forge and steal somebody's stuff. I was going from the bank to the smith when I saw him running toward the bank and somebody chasing him. It was really funny watching another "me" running away, and the surprised reaction of the guy he had stolen from when he saw the two of us, but it also showed a real problem with the repair system.
11. People literally couldn't wear their best items into battle, unless they had an item bless deed. If they wore a suit of invulnerability items, they would be ganked the second they left town. The good part of that was that, while you might wear some great armor to show off at Brit bank, you would put it up and wear your regular armor to actually PvP or go dungeon crawling. Great items didn't unbalance PvP; an item bless deed was ridiculously expensive. And the item you blessed with it would wear out in a couple of months if you used it much. That meant that everybody had pretty much the same quality of armor and weapons, and all skills were limited to 100, which was much easier to get to, so your proficiency in PvP was based on your own skill, reflexes and abilities. The pre-AOS damage system was pretty good; if I remember correctly, base damage was 21, and GM tactics and anatomy added 165% to base damage, for a total of 55 base damage; a regular GM made weapon added 6 points to that, and a vanq added 9, so that meant that a pure warrior with a GM weapon did about 95% of the damage that he would do with a vanq. It gave the person with the vanq an advantage, but not an overwhelming one.
12. New skills like ninjitsu, bushido, mysticism, imbuing, etc. have been a lot of fun.

If I started over on a pre-AOS shard, I would miss the ability to make my own custom house the most. Then there's ninjitsu. I've become addicted to the Primeval Lich spawn; my main character is a stealther. Even with item insurance, there's loot galore there. A certain massive PvP guild on Atlantic has a tendency to arrive just in time to run off all the blues who worked the spawn, and I have a lot of fun tormenting them and watching them throw dozens of conflag potions to try to kill me, while I've stealthed half a screen away. Wolf form is great for fast getaways. Ninja is a great complimentary skill for all sorts of rogues.

The changes to armor, weapons and the addition of power scrolls were the main problems with AOS. The pre-AOS ruleset allowed us to play a mage with regular clothes, a warrior in shining Valorite armor, a ranger in studded armor, etc.; magic resist did exactly that: resisted magic spells, so that our armor only had to resist physical damage; we didn't need a calculator and a degree in mathematics to figure out whether to loot a piece of armor. Combat was skill-based, not item-based.

The problem with making Trammel was that all of the law-abiding people left Felucca to the thieves, murderers and hardcore PvPers who thought that killing anybody who ventured to Fel to look around or go dungeon crawling was fair game. Pre-Trammel, the thieves had to be careful, posses actually hunted the murderers for the bounties or revenge, and hardcore PvPers could just join either the order or chaos factions and start killing everything in sight, while the people who didn't want to PvP for a while could just quit the order/chaos factions and go hunting in a dungeon 10 minutes later. PK'ing wasn't the norm; there were a few dread lords with hundreds of murder counts who would run through a dungeon killing everybody in sight, but they had to be careful or they would die, and they would have permanent stat loss. The modern iteration of factions was mangled to the point that it pretty much made PvP mandatory and finished off Felucca as a viable place for most players to live and play.

Felucca has went from being a new frontier with a myriad group of hardy explorers and settlers, both good and evil, and many somewhere in between, to a post-apocalyptic wasteland where only the richest, best-equipped and most ruthless hardcore power gamers can survive.

A pre-AOS ruleset with a modern world, complete with house customization, the new dungeons, etc. would be the best of both worlds.

If we do get a pre-AOS shard, I wouldn't want for it to allow transfers; everybody would have to start new characters. We can have a house on the new shard while keeping our current house on our current production shard. I would want to actually play on the new shard, and I wouldn't want to have to choose between losing my house on Atlantic or having to play from the bank in the new shard. Pre-AOS, we were allowed one house per shard anyway, remember?

 

[Javin]

Define "classic shard"

Easy

The day ALL my items changed into diablo 2 clones (item properties) was the day the game changed forever.

Take that day, subtract one, and done.

Now with that said, do all that, then add cool stuff like Peerless, and the SA content, and you have a winner...

~J

 

[Unsatisfied]

I apologize if i touch on something thats already been said I only read to about 130 posts... I also apologize for being so late i had problems registering here.
NOW to the points

1) there is nothing "classic about tramell" Im sorry

2) If anyone important who is thinking about actually making this classic shard is reading all of these posts please remember the following before saying "oh look lots of people want tram, probably more than the people who dont want it"
a. 90% or more of the people posting on this forum, in this thread etc are people who still play UO with the addition of tram... They like tram... the extremely large majority who quit because of tram arnt posting in this thread because they dont know it exists, this would include me if i didnt have family who still play EA UO. So your hearing a very bias argument here in this forum.
b.I'm sure one of the points to this "classic" shard would be to bring back a lot of the players who quit because they dont like the current state of uo. IF you create it with tramell you may bring back a few and some current players on other shards may switch to it. But if it is a fel only shard and word gets out to old players... and im sure it will after some encouragement... You will see see people coming back to UO.


Anyone who thinks there is no place for non-con pvp... fel only servers need to take a look at player run shards like UO Gamers Hybrid... It has been running for about 6 years now and it still has an average of around 800-1000 people... How many shards on EA can currently boast that as their average? (I Really have no idea but I doubt its that) And its a player run shard where lots of people dont like admins cos they think they are corrupt... dont like the fact that you can donate and become rich, dont like so many things about it because its player run but they still play it because they love the rules. So just imagine it back on a professionally run EA shard.


Sorry if i dribbled on a bit... But im only just touching on arguments i have to make sure this shard, if actually considered is a fel only CLASSIC shard.

 

[Evlar]

So... to get an overall feel for how the thread is going.

- PvP is again the main dividing of opinions, be it con or non-con.

- Consensus is maintained at "classic" generally referring to pre-UO:R era.

- People do like the lands, creatures and items (in an artwork sense*) that have followed.

- A completely new start, with no character transfers, seems to be the favoured choice for such a new shard.

- GM crafted and trully "rare" special item drops are preferred, with little overwhelming difference in actual advantage between the best "found" items and the best "crafted" items.**


*In effect, the "look" rather than stat based desire, such as SE/ML/SA artwork, without the "uber" mods or mod-ability.

** I believe this would actually be good for this shard's economy, as it too would be starting from scratch. Clearly those who build crafters first would be in the best position to earn biggest from the offset, though this would soon balance out with more players.


For my own part, plus with all that's been learned (hopefully ) over the years, if creating a "classic" shard, then it should be easier to solve some of the grief/exploit/cheat problems, by implementing a few of the systems in place from the modern game.

I spotted someone mention the repair system, how rogue crafters could easily steal items entrusted to them for repair. Repair deeds was a good solution to this problem. Although it's a shame you don't see player crafters like smiths at Brit Forge these days, the old system was widely open to abuse. Still, if there's no "uber" items, there's no great desire to steal (without using a bona-fide thief-skilled character, which is fair game in my book) from players in such a manner.

Trade and transfer windows between players are much better. It's much less likely, if at all, to "dupe" players into swapping a house deed in return for "nothing", like a blank scroll.

Pet/creature control slots are a good thing for balance. One bane of anyone without a tamer (though I've always had a tamer) was the farming hotspots camped continually with tamers and pets.

Menu/gump/menu/UI improvements, all good. Dare I say (obvious bugs aside...) that the enhanced client could and should be used. Some might say this works against the "classic" feel, but personally I feel the better user-interface is a good thing. The clients though, are perhaps secondary to this discussion. It's more about the gameplay.

There's other more modern systems that have been genuine improvements, which I can't remember off the top of my head. The point of a discussion is though, to explore what's good in the general consensus, so that they could be included into a "classic" shard, without detracting from the "classic" gameplay.

Cal... if you're reading through this thread and this *is* something you're seriously working on/considering (after the "lunch" you mentioned), then perhaps it's wise and time, to start gathering together the thoughts of players who would be interested in helping make it what it has the potential to be.

 

[Tanivar]

Re: Define "Classic Shard" A serious question.

All of you who want a classic shard with no Trammel safe play area.

Why are you not playing on SP?

The only answer I can think of is the lack of easy targets.

Any other answers come to mind?

 

[Sargon]

Re: Define "Classic Shard" A serious question.

All of you who want a classic shard with no Trammel safe play area.

Why are you not playing on SP?

The only answer I can think of is the lack of easy targets.

Any other answers come to mind?

Why is it that you assume the only reason someone would want a classic shard would be for "easy targets"? I have never played a PK character, yet I am still thrilled with the idea of a classic shard without Trammel, for reasons that I have previously stated.

If you read through the posts in this thread, the most common theme has been for the removal of item properties and the return of value to GM-crafted weapons and armor. Siege Perilous does not offer that.

With that said, I don't know if there is room for both Siege Perilous and a new classic shard, as I think it would decimate what remains of the Siege population. Rather than a completely new classic shard, why couldn't it be a revamp of the Siege ruleset?

 

[Evlar]

All of you who want a classic shard with no Trammel safe play area.

Why are you not playing on SP?

The only answer I can think of is the lack of easy targets.

Any other answers come to mind?

Well, for me it's more about the item-based gameplay we have now, versus the skill based gameplay of before. I prefer the latter.

PvP for me, be it non-con or con, was just part of the game. If anything at all, it added spice. You always knew where most NPC's and monsters were, or would be, but not where other players might appear. Although some may see many negatives in non-con PvP, at least many areas of the gaming world were popular and populated, not just a few areas in huge land masses we see now.

Item based gameplay has created it's own problem for me within UO. It has funnelled peoples attention to a small number of "must have" items, meaning that there's a vast quantity of other items, still there, still available, but nobody wants. They're actually little more than an "ingredient" for something else.

Crafting of many items, is now not a skill to be proud of in an individual skill, it's now a means to an end, to make something, to make something else, to use with another skill, to make an uber-item... pah!

Imbuing for me has been the final nail in the coffin. A skill where you have to use an inordinate amount of items, with other items (using the now "secondary" smith, tailor, carpenter), to make... wait for it... another item!

Give me the simplicity of the original trades and crafter, give me the simplicity of crafted armour and weapons. Make a simple suit and a weapon for your fighter, then they're off out on level terms with virtually any PvP'er or monster.... that's what I miss and refer to with a "classic" shard.

 

[Tanivar]

I have been following the thread and also prefer an item-free classic shard.

The two main preferences seem to be:

1) Get rid of the item-based play. Seems just about everyone, PvM or PvP agrees on this.

2) Get rid of Trammel and anything that prevents non-consent PvP.

Number one then is just an AoS-free shard. Skill-based play, not Item-based play. Seems like this could be done and result in a lot less hassle for players and the EA Devs. All the resists & item bonus's must complicate things.

This leaves number two. Both PvPers & PvMers want a skill-based, not item-based game shard. There being no Trammel with it's ruleset apparently thrills the PvP group, but would have little interest for the PvM group.

This could call for two classic shards. One for those who enjoy non-consentual PvP, skill-based play, and one for those who enjoy consent-only PvP skill-based play, and play primarily PvM.

My preference would be the classic shard with consent-only PvP, skill-based play, playing just the PvM as a rule. I have no interest in paying a monthly fee to be fun for others instead of having fun myself.

 

[Unsatisfied]

I have been following the thread and also prefer an item-free classic shard.

The two main preferences seem to be:

1) Get rid of the item-based play. Seems just about everyone, PvM or PvP agrees on this.

2) Get rid of Trammel and anything that prevents non-consent PvP.

Number one then is just an AoS-free shard. Skill-based play, not Item-based play. Seems like this could be done and result in a lot less hassle for players and the EA Devs. All the resists & item bonus's must complicate things.

This leaves number two. Both PvPers & PvMers want a skill-based, not item-based game shard. There being no Trammel with it's ruleset apparently thrills the PvP group, but would have little interest for the PvM group.

This could call for two classic shards. One for those who enjoy non-consentual PvP, skill-based play, and one for those who enjoy consent-only PvP skill-based play, and play primarily PvM.

My preference would be the classic shard with consent-only PvP, skill-based play, playing just the PvM as a rule. I have no interest in paying a monthly fee to be fun for others instead of having fun myself.

I've got a 57 year old dad who has played for around 9 or 10 years, now all he does, and has ever done is pvm, he has never consensually pvped in his life. But he misses and wants a fel only shard because he said it was more realistic. He misses the fact that it was dangerous going out to hunt and he could get attacked and killed if he wasnt careful. He says sure sometimes it frustrated him but the game has now lost that sense of adventure and its just one repedative pvm experience after another... He just stays for the social aspect.

Another thing and i think someone touched on it is that pvm without risk of being pked doesnt help the econemy... It makes it too easy for people who like sitting in a dungeon all day to make mills. Pking is a money sink and helps stabilize he econemy. Someone dies hunting, loses stuff, has to buy more items off players/vendors. Money sink and money making for others.

If your worried about pkers being so rampart bring back the stat loss system for 5 or more short term murders. With a bounty system attatched. You will still have a lot of pkers but a community spirit of people hunting them for their heads and ultimately cash. Then if they have griefed 100 newbs. they have a long stat loss ahead. And the victor has the spoils.

 

[Minky]

Simple solution:
Make 2 classic shards.
Name one Felucca, the other Trammel. See which has more, consistent activity.

They both can have the pretty land of the Trammel trees, and the lack of the alternative play-style they dislike. (guild wars, Order/Chaos or factions would still apply though on the Trammel shard)

Wouldn't be hard to maintain both, as they'd both have the same code. The only difference would be PvP=1 on Felucca, and PvP!=1 on Trammel.

 

[Unsatisfied]

Simple solution:
Make 2 classic shards.
Name one Felucca, the other Trammel. See which has more, consistent activity.

They both can have the pretty land of the Trammel trees, and the lack of the alternative play-style they dislike. (guild wars, Order/Chaos or factions would still apply though on the Trammel shard)

Wouldn't be hard to maintain both, as they'd both have the same code. The only difference would be PvP=1 on Felucca, and PvP!=1 on Trammel.

I dont hate the idea all together but I can see that turning it into two smallish shards slightly under populated then causing people to quit cos its small rather than one big growing community.

 

[Minky]

I only said that because those who are pro-non-consensual PvP don't seem to realize that you can still have your PvP fix via Guild Wars and Factions or Order/Chaos. I enjoy PvP. I adore PvP. I truly find PvP with others who enjoy it more thrilling than killing those who are not looking to PvP.

I don't understand the big thrill of non-con PvP, it's utterly baffling. I want a challenge in mine, not a steam-roll.

**Not only that, but Thieves who enjoy being a Thief and not a crate can participate too! Simply War it up and go to town thieving from your rival guild or faction.

 

[Lady_Mina]

at this point i simply don't care if it's pre-trammel or pre-aos...all i know is that i just want it, and i want it fast.

Our only option is normal server or siege...
but siege is also item based...so siege is not close enough to what people really want.

I truly hate how i have to spend a lot of mills on gear and 120 scrolls to be something decent in this game.
How i have to jam several skill in one template.

It used to be easy 7xGM skills and that's it.
People didn't have to be like 'ok so i drop magery to 80 , so i can have this skill to 120'.

I can bare with special colored clothing and the new plants...the deco stuff and character stuff thats ment for the 'look' only.
i'm ok with champs , just let them drop deco/apperance enhancement stuff no scrolls.

I'm starting to feel like Morgana LeFay...i'm preparing and waiting for EA to pull the plug on UO.
UO seems pretty dead now.
The amount of people you see online is a lot less then back pre-aos.

EA really needs to step up and do something...cause i don't see UO surviving the next 5 years.

 

[Cardell]

So does a "classic" shard also mean that all the "classic" bugs and exploits that were around at the same time also exist? In addition the horrible uselessness of archery in PvP?

Its funny you say that. Just goes to show you weren't around in the beginning. When the 100% str bonus gave archery the dmg bonus and they were tough as **** in pvp. Or when Archery Mages were the hot template.

With that being said!! Classic shard to me means a lot of ****. LOLZ it reminds me of way way back in the day when I would have my tamer bitty give my thief a dragon and I would invis the dragon 2 screens to the east of Ocollo bank. When someone would walk to the east side of the bank I would steal from them and then run to my dragon. Since I was a mage I would just spam small spells and heals to make it look like I was weak. Then I would para them and sick the dragon on them.. LOL! Thief was seriously the most profitable skill back in those days. and dragons and deamons (summoned) were crazy overpowered.

ANYWHO! Classic shard to me means the good **** of all the eras combined:

-No Tram

-Old Armor and Weapon (including magic) system WITH runics but with less charges and modifactions to the way you get the runics.

-Factions... Oh yes,, MUCH factions!

-Chaos/Order system

-Murder system back.. Perma-red and Statloss (specifics would need to be modified)

-Para hit for spears/short spears

-Crushing blow for war hammers (dmg capped of course, lets not go back into the 90 - 100 dmg hits with that ****.)

-Conc Blows with all axes but instead of taking the bottom half of the man they should take the top half. Basically how it used to work is if you casted 40 mana worth of spells, you would have 60/100 mana. If you got Conced at that point you would have 10/50 Mana. It should take the top half which would mean you lost 10/50. So you would be left with 50/50 mana. Lowering the cap and anything over 50 would be good enough.

-No guild alliances, alliances ruin this game. If you want to be associated with a guild, join them.

-Poison and Para fields hit EVERYONE including yourself and your guildies.

-EQ and Meteorswarm/Lightning Strike also hit everyone including your guildies.

-Mages could cast with Chaos or Order shields (good ol chaos days)

-Shield blocking scaled depending on type of shield. Bucklers parry a lot but only parry a portion of the blow. Chaos/Order shields parried less but parried the full blow.

-Scribe gave bonus magic

-Poisoning gave casting poison bonus

-Colored Ingots (valorite, verite, ag, shadow, etc) made armor that was more durable as it scales up BUT the armor should weigh more,,also see below.

-Any special ore above bronze should be very hard to get. Meaning all mining veins would be random.

-Faction Crafters would not be able to make any agy, verite or valorite weapons as Faction weapons. Those weapons being blessed was cheap. If people want to use them, thats all gravy but they shouldn't be blessed.

-There were times I enjoyed when their were no field, summons or dmg spells allowed to be casted in towns but I think it would be cool if there were only 2 or 3 towns like that. Having some towns that didn't allow casting dmg spells and fields allowed their to be more dexer vs dexer fights. Some of the best fights I had back in the day were big dexer fights, it was just a nice change up from sync dumps n stuff.

-The only alternate land mass other than Britannia is t2a, which needs to be totally revamped and so does all low end mobs.

-No soulstones

-100 Skill cap

-Custom houses

-No bright colors!!!!!

-Tamable mobs would need to be looked at

-I myself liked when their was only 1 character per account in factions. It made you fall into a role and relly on other people (a guild) support you in one way or another. Thats just me tho.. I don't particularly like or dislike being able to have all your characters in factions but I think it would be better for the factions if people could only have 1 or 2 characters per account in factions.

-Maces did more dmg to armor and stamina than fencing and sword weaps but were slower and obviously miss out on the ability to DP people with their weapons.

-Health forumla (50+(STR/2)) It was not always so.. but it seems to be the best for old school UO.

-Mindblast does dmg based of the difference of the targets DEX and INT

-Explosion pots have a timer between uses and pot detonation timer varies. Pot chuckers are stupid. imho

-Tailoring armor back in the day was not repairable, it should be.

-All armor above studded would need dex penalties that scale up to plate like they used to.

-All spells dmg was based against the targets Magic Resistance

-Axes got a small dmg bonus from lumberjacking

-Precasting spells allow you to equip and unequip weapons/shields/armor while holding the spell up but if the item was on when the spell was first casted or actually casted onto the target the item would be dropped out of your hands.

-Faction items and the amount of faction items that could be worn would be based off your rank and how many towns you own.

-Transfering points from one character to another is only available 1 timer per day.

-Faction population cap put back in

-Characters that are not logged in are removed from factions after so many times (makes sure faction population numbers are not skewed by inactive players.

-Tamed pets will have skill windows, like currently so you can see their skill and train them (you couldnt always do that)

-arms lore would improve your crafted items

-enhancing is cool, I would say they should find a way to enhance things. Maybe, You should be able to enhance an item up 1 level in 1 of the magic categories(Durability/ACcuracy/Damage) with some 'rare' mats. Stuff like that.

-Slayers In but only lootable obviously

-Champ Spawns? what good would they be? Scrolls of transendance maybe? But not up to 1.0 of skill. Only like .1 or .2 skill scrolls.

-NO INSURANCE

-template titles IN! Fencing+Fishing used to give you the title Grandmaster Pirate.

-Guardzones obviously in everywhere accept bucs den and no guardzones at the moongates.

-stun punch and disarm in (you're welcome thieves)

-100 hiding and 100 stealth could not be revealed by a mage with 100 magery and 100 detect hidden (They can only be detected by detect hidden)

-pets are bondable (was not always so)

-No Access to houses bull ****.. You can go in any house unless its locked or you are banned.

-pouches break para In Jux Ftw!

-Vendor system used currently should be in, modified

-All armor/weapons break eventually, it can never be fully repaired

-bolas can be crafted but only can be used by people with 100 tactics

-No gargoyles.. Elfs would be ok I guess, but there wouldnt be any racial bonuses or differences and no gay elf armor.

-(200 Eval+Anat = 100 Evade)

-I guess some of the newer weapon models could be implemented with scaling dmgs and speeds as long as they aren't more powerful than anything else or faster than anything..

awww I could go on and on... The only thing I king of hate to part with is necro and ss vs chiv. I would have loved to seen them implemented some how.. but thats just me.

 

[Unsatisfied]

I only said that because those who are pro-non-consensual PvP don't seem to realize that you can still have your PvP fix via Guild Wars and Factions or Order/Chaos. I enjoy PvP. I adore PvP. I truly find PvP with others who enjoy it more thrilling than killing those who are not looking to PvP.

I don't understand the big thrill of non-con PvP, it's utterly baffling. I want a challenge in mine, not a steam-roll.

**Not only that, but Thieves who enjoy being a Thief and not a crate can participate too! Simply War it up and go to town thieving from your rival guild or faction.

Guild wars are all well and good, but it doesnt compare to being able to attack anyone outside of guards... Pking isnt my fav part dont get me wrong im a factioner or order/chaos player all the way... BUT getting rid of fel ruleset like I said again lets people freely farm away on pvm eventually screwing up the econemy. Pks make for a better community becuase with pk guilds you get npk guilds... With a bounty system you get more reason to go out and fight these reds and protect other people...

pks = money sink = helping to stabilize econemy
npks = general community being brought together and protect each other especially newbs
wars/order/chaos/factions = best organised pvp but on a completely different scheme and for different reasons or goals to pking/npking.

and lastly about theives joining guilds and stealing off enemy guilds... That is about as interesting as playing a game of football by yourself. Theives mainly make money by stealing valuable items that people are carelessly carrying, and makes it so that people have to be smart and carefully with expensive belongings. What truely valuable stealable items are people in the middle of wars going to carry? and on that note what good is a theif whose best asset is being anonymous trying to sneak up and steal when they are flagged orange?

 

[Viper09]

Its funny you say that. Just goes to show you weren't around in the beginning. When the 100% str bonus gave archery the dmg bonus and they were tough as **** in pvp. Or when Archery Mages were the hot template.

Haha, no. I wasn't around at the beginning. But I heard a lot about how crazy archery was at the start. I started around T2A. I started as an archer and kept that character since. And no, I'm not even remotely good with him in PvP, lol.

I was around when archery mages were popular though. But even then it wasn't that good unless you combined it with magery.

 

[Minky]

and lastly about theives joining guilds and stealing off enemy guilds... That is about as interesting as playing a game of football by yourself. Theives mainly make money by stealing valuable items that people are carelessly carrying, and makes it so that people have to be smart and carefully with expensive belongings. What truely valuable stealable items are people in the middle of wars going to carry? and on that note what good is a theif whose best asset is being anonymous trying to sneak up and steal when they are flagged orange?

The same thing they did back during the early days. Steal Warrior's bandages to stop them, or some Mage reagents to help the fight. That's during a PvP face-off. If you join up to PvP, chances are you'd stay flagged hoping to find some World PvP at any time. There's a good chance that Thieves would have targets because PvP is such a huge draw in every game.

So, to answer your question after giving that short idea, perhaps that shiny, new, unidentified Sliver Katana of Vanquishing that you just looted from the Lich Lord, before you even had a chance to ID it. Or maybe you just finished a fight against a couple of daemons and are low on health, then your bandages or garlic/mandrake root goes away, and the Thief's stealth assassins are coming to finish the kill?

 

[Cardell]

Haha, no. I wasn't around at the beginning. But I heard a lot about how crazy archery was at the start. I started around T2A. I started as an archer and kept that character since. And no, I'm not even remotely good with him in PvP, lol.

I was around when archery mages were popular though. But even then it wasn't that good unless you combined it with magery.

Tbh, I think that Archery was fine back in the day. I feel it served its purpose. Moderate to good dmg at a slow rate from a distance. I don't think there was ever a time that archery was way way underpowered. Thats just me tho.

A lot of people feel in order for a skill to be useful it must swing faster AND do the most damage like they do currently. I personally think thats stupid..

Lolz.. the good ol days.

 

[Viper09]

Tbh, I think that Archery was fine back in the day. I feel it served its purpose. Moderate to good dmg at a slow rate from a distance. I don't think there was ever a time that archery was way way underpowered. Thats just me tho.

A lot of people feel in order for a skill to be useful it must swing faster AND do the most damage like they do currently. I personally think thats stupid..

Lolz.. the good ol days.

Archery was decent back then. The problem with it, however, was the little tidbit that made it so you had to stay completely still after firing the arrow/bolt until it reached the target and either hit or miss. If you moved before reaching the target it would always miss. So you had to stay still and wait for it to either hit or miss properly.

 

[Unsatisfied]

The same thing they did back during the early days. Steal Warrior's bandages to stop them, or some Mage reagents to help the fight. That's during a PvP face-off. If you join up to PvP, chances are you'd stay flagged hoping to find some World PvP at any time. There's a good chance that Thieves would have targets because PvP is such a huge draw in every game.

So, to answer your question after giving that short idea, perhaps that shiny, new, unidentified Sliver Katana of Vanquishing that you just looted from the Lich Lord, before you even had a chance to ID it. Or maybe you just finished a fight against a couple of daemons and are low on health, then your bandages or garlic/mandrake root goes away, and the Thief's stealth assassins are coming to finish the kill?

But most the time people won't farm on their warring characters they will jump on blues so no. Theif won't be able to steal the shiny silver vanq in your world. There is a very limited ammount of things you can do with a their in a tram ruleset and again it's removing the fear or losing something expensive that made the game notoriously exciting. No need to be careful in town. Just go afk all day and be safe as well.

 

[Minky]

Forget about Disarm-Stealing?

 

[Unsatisfied]

Archery was decent back then. The problem with it, however, was the little tidbit that made it so you had to stay completely still after firing the arrow/bolt until it reached the target and either hit or miss. If you moved before reaching the target it would always miss. So you had to stay still and wait for it to either hit or miss properly.

^this

 

[Cardell]

11. People literally couldn't wear their best items into battle, unless they had an item bless deed. If they wore a suit of invulnerability items, they would be ganked the second they left town.

I disagree with a lot of your post. A lot of it is opinion and thats all good, I just want to put out, that thinking like the above statement is what made the great pvpers stand out over the guppies. The good pvpers wore their best every time out. It didn't always seem like it helped back in the day but that little edge they got ontop of them already being good pvpers, allowed them drop so many people.

 

[Cardell]

Archery was decent back then. The problem with it, however, was the little tidbit that made it so you had to stay completely still after firing the arrow/bolt until it reached the target and either hit or miss. If you moved before reaching the target it would always miss. So you had to stay still and wait for it to either hit or miss properly.

Ahh, I do remember that now... It did still have its uses but Yes, that did make it way hard to be solely an archer..

 

[Unsatisfied]

Forget about Disarm-Stealing?

Your just narrowing down thrives uses so much restricting them to pvp. And disarm stealing isn't that classic anyway I would take it or leave it in a classic shard. But plain out stealing anywhere IS classic

 

[Kaleb]

Pub 15 or prior, no tram, thats it

 

[Evlar]

I think the thing with combat skills back then, was they were all good in their own respect. I don't seem to remember one being overly more powerful than another, it was more down to someone's individual preference and play-style. Good thinking, strategy, tactics and skill were what made the best PvP or PvM characters.

With that in mind, you tended to get a good spread of characters, using different weapons and armour. As an idea of the difference to now, how many macers do you see these days? I had separate warrior characters back then. Archer, fencer, axer, macer, swordsman... all were fun to play and offered a different form of combat.

Thief skill... well, that's another one that's gone to the dogs. A thief was fun to play back then... and fun to avoid or chase down.

When I used to play a thief, I was happy to get any item off a player. It didn't matter what it was. Sometimes it was something good, another time it was something small but useful, sometimes I got caught and walloped... it was all part of the challenge.

Chasing down a thief was also good fun. A mage thief (incognito) or one in disguise was always an effort to hunt. I remember playing against thieves who encouraged people to hunt them down, for the challenge of evasion.

As for archery, it seems that people are either for or against moving shots. For me, moving archery shots should be specific to the type of bow or crossbow used. Think about realistic archery dynamics for a moment. Yes, I know, it's a fantasy game, but part of what makes fantasy work is elements of realism and believeability. Many agree so far with "weight" and "durability" of armour and shields, so why not apply the same logic with weapons.

A bigger weapon would be heavier, thus harder and slower to swing, though it might cause more damage when it hits. A lighter weapon, is obviously faster to use, but causes lesser impact damage.

Archery therefore, should have strengths and weakness depending on the type of bow. Heavier bows/xbows for maximum damage that take time to reload and only in a standing position, light bows/xbows which allow more movement and faster reload times. Finally, something that's geared specifically to mounted use. Usage of any such bow should be only possible at certain skill levels. Likewise, any enhancement to damage modifiers should tie with other skills, such as bowcraft, just as lumberjack with axers.

 

[Minky]

I don't seem to remember one being overly more powerful than another, it was more down to someone's individual preference and play-style. Good thinking, strategy, tactics and skill were what made the best PvP or PvM characters.

Remember the days of the Tribal Spears? 25% proc rate on Paralyze was extremely OP, and every melee was a fencer.

 

[Viper09]

Oohhh...
Forgot about the "classic" version of macing. Not sure if it was mentioned already or not.

But the classic version of macing was complete destruction of armor/cloths. A mace would literally burn away the durability really fast on your opponents armor/cloths.

That was one of the reasons I created a macer pre-aos, hehe.

 

[Nexus]

Oohhh...
Forgot about the "classic" version of macing. Not sure if it was mentioned already or not.

But the classic version of macing was complete destruction of armor/cloths. A mace would literally burn away the durability really fast on your opponents armor/cloths.

That was one of the reasons I created a macer pre-aos, hehe.

I had a Macer/Fencer...ran without parry since I used a Q-staff and a Long Spear. When they put in special blows (which were random at the time for those that don't remember) I'd switch between weapons...Para Blow then start busting armor, get a concussion blow and switch back to the spear...even if I died, the other person lost usually their shield, and chest piece..but that really P.O'ed the guy running around with a full set of Val Plate...

 

[Cardell]

I had a Macer/Fencer...ran without parry since I used a Q-staff and a Long Spear. When they put in special blows (which were random at the time for those that don't remember) I'd switch between weapons...Para Blow then start busting armor, get a concussion blow and switch back to the spear...even if I died, the other person lost usually their shield, and chest piece..but that really P.O'ed the guy running around with a full set of Val Plate...

Ya, I loved maces back in the day. Q staffs were the ****. and if you lost you still broke some of their armor. I remember watching my buddy fight this macer for almost a half hour. MY buddy was Fencing/Parry and the guy was Maces/Parry. My friend had to keep running to the bank for more armor/shields. It was actually quite entertaining seeing him die with his 3rd set of armor being all jacked up..