Classic Shard #2

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

@ Tanivar:

In one post, you claim to be for balanced PvP...but then in another, you advocate for Trammel.


I am sorry, but those two things are mutual exclusive.

A Classic Shard with Trammel is just a precursor to the failure that we see on the current shards now.

What is the purpose of going back to something that failed?

What I envision for a classic shard is taking a completely different path than what was taken before. But that path does not include Trammel, does not include a PvP switch, and most certainly does not include an 'easy mode'...which is exactly what Trammel was...and nothing more.

I asked you a serious question, because I am trying to understand this debate from a different perspective...and you told me to 'get more sleep' and that my post was "nonsense babble"?

I spent my early days in UO protecting people that didn't like to PvP, because I felt it was the right thing to do. I NEVER understood why these people were so spineless and afraid that they would not take up arms against those that were oppressing them, yet I dutifully protected them...and it cost me. It cost me friends, it cost me in game treasures, and it ultimately got me targeted for being hacked.

But the thanks I got was Trammel, and now I get told that my ideas are 'nonsense babble'.

I wasted my time back then. The people I was protecting didn't need to be protected against PKs...they needed to be protected from their own sense of entitlement.

 

[Alezi]

Simple Morgana. Monsters don't get thier childish jollies by ganking you. Pkers get their thrill by ruining the fun of others. They chase you down, kill your character, and take what you've worked for, and will do it over, & over, & over, to you and others for the thrill of griefing other players. <snip>

PvP/PKing is a game style just like PvM. PvP just revolves around fighting human opponents as opposed to computer AI in PvM. The risk of getting killed as well as getting higher rewards (loot) are significantly higher.

"Thus is the world in which you are born, live and die."

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

False, false, and more false.

PKers don't just enjoy ganking. They enjoy a good fight. They aren't there to just gank. They are there to compete and win.

You are confusing PK's with real PvPers. PvPers would stay and fight when me and 5 other anti's showed up. Pk's just recalled away. I hate to say it but I saw more Kal Ort Por's than I did fighting as an anti. That tells me most gankers DON'T enjoy a good fight. That tells me most gankers are there just to farm the sheep who are trying to gain a little skill in Orc Valley or other places.

I can feel where Tanivar is coming from, but I don't think it will be quite that bad this time around simply because we all understand what it was like then and know that by logging into the classic shard we are consenting to PvP. It will happen. Most of us now know how to deal with it. The only people I can see having a problem with it would be the vets who joined UO after UO:R, but as I've said before if the classic idea is viable why not open a Pub5 shard as well after the T2A shard is either peaked or dwindling. I know I'd end up playing a Tram shard simply because my wife has told me she will not play on a classic shard because of the non-con PvP.

That being said, everyone seems to write off the great exodus of people who left after AoS.....that mass of people played tram...there were probably more of them who left tram over AoS than had left after UO:R implemented Tram. So there are really two markets there waiting to be tapped by a brave executive at EA. Those of us who want a "classic" T2A experience, and those who want an AoS free experience and were sickened by what AoS, SE, ML, and I guess SA did to the game..

As for Ish being put into a classic T2A server, I don't really know how I feel about it. I thought the land was beautifully done, probably IMO the best expansion to UO sans the disjointed Third Dawn (3d) client, but it would spread the population out more. I wouldn't want to see Champ spawns with or without power scrolls though that's for sure.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Some posts have been removed.
Please keep it polite, argue your case without descending to insulting the person holding the view you disagree with.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Oh yes... I recalled, so many times...

I was so innefiscient in a way, clumsy, sometimes in the middle of a fight I would not have enough root.

But Brainbug lived and lived ! And it pissed me off as much as the antis I'm sure. I just couldn't take the risk of fighting two dexxers, or one dexxer and two mages ; it was not a realistic risk to my "hardspine" character. Well exept if they were some noobish guild that had no business in level 3 dungeons.

If I died, I died. Noone really stopped me, ever.

And you see, what did I get for being a target to players who had blissful moments when they redbar'd me (I was so close, so many times) and I was something really evil ; I didn't care for my bounty I checked it once or twice in the way up.

Maybe those other adolescents that went rampage did not know what a spine is in a virtual realm... we cannot expect people who have never taken perspective that it never ends to react well to this philosophy.

Of course abuse should be punished, but there is only one sane way to do it, and I've already said enough about that part. If you think about it, Morgana's exile idea is excellent as far as networking goes, and

Unreal "god driven" murder counts is not the way to go ; thats where I step in.

Richard, everyone who is reading this as you probably are by now.

Peace out guys, situation is under control.

But we ought to keep it under sane algorythms.

Exile is too religious ; you have to call it the "epic murderous rage" in which a player is lost in anger has no choice but to go "all in" and depending on his performance ; he should be rewarded with less something not god applied stat loss.

Of course the other part that makes it work and prevent people from UMing... I will deliver only in the proper hands.

Do everyone agree here ? You need to punish the personality, not the player. UO was never intended to be a game that you "enjoy" it was created to be home to ideas, oh of course people played in it, but they also cried and became. If there is no adversity in this realm, where else will it manifest in the human consciousness ; you guessed it again.

You're making progress Avatar.

 

[taglol]

PvM in UO? Right. Go play WoW/Lineage/LotRO/Vanguard/Everquest/Warhammer, ANYTHING but UO. The PvM is completly crap in this game, fact. UO is about player interaction, something that a classic shard gives. As I see it, UO has now become some ****ty farmfest with a chat. With a classic shard that player interaction I experienced 10 years ago or so would be needed again.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

We settled about 20 some pages ago that we didn't need to rationalise and tell people where they should play.

There is honestly no need to exponentialise your concern.

I'm not biting. You can only judge yourself.

 

[HD2300]

People have posted "your points can't be answered".

Sure they can.

You have Option A, Option B, Option C.
You also the option of 2 paper clips or 3 paper clips.

A dev has said Option C is not possible.

So there is either Option A + 2 paper clips, Option A + 3 paper clips, Option B + 2 paper clips or Option B + 3 paper clips.

or

Option A + $0.02, Option A + $0.03, Option B + $0.02 or Option B + $0.03.
If someone can provide some plausible numbers that show that EA is going to make tons of profit from a Classic shard, it is definitely going to be 100 times more convincing than, well Stratics sent out a massive bulk email to all its members and 6 people posted count me in.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Why would we want it to be convincing ? Why would we want players who need proof that it's "profitable" ?

Why have I the feeling that EA will decide what they want to do, as they always did ?

We don't need to be mathematicians to understand what UO is all about. This is a stand we make, to get a clear vision... if you have concerns you can adress to EA directly, I'm sure they will take pleasure in reading your letter.

We're not going to bite.

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[NorCal]

It won't be crowded, the PKer crowd will prevent that by once again driving the non-pvp players to Tram on another shard. People won't pay a monthly fee to be fun for others instead of having fun themselves.

Once the 'sheep', 'Trammies', or whatever we get refered to as, have gone elsewhere, to have fun for our monthly fee, the PKers will get bored and leave as they did 10 years ago. The Classic Shard will be a ghost town like fell on the regular shards.

Many of those who would return as mentioned in the other classic shard thread seem to think they will have many easy targets to kill endlessly. It wouldn't be that way for long, if at all.

But they can dream can't they.

I hope that the people that choose to play this type of shard will want to play all aspects of the game, but accept that it wouldn't be completely safe. One thing I know having played UO for 5 years and then playing wow for the last 5 is that players hate to die to another player. Even in wow where all pvp is consentual. You consent to pvp just at login if it's a pvp server or when you join a battleground or arena. People still hate to die, just look at their forums its full of nerf X class threads and they lose nothing when they die. It's also a item based game so gear plays a roll new characters get steamrolled by vets.

What I loved about classic UO was that there wasn't people outgearing you, that you could go to a vendor (another thing I loved about UO instead of a auction house) and buy a GM made set of gear and pvp without grinding some kind of points. That people that played 24/7 didn't have any advantage. Sure you could use that vanq weapon, but if you die I own it.

Not to mention that crafting was actually an important part of the game. Being a GM blacksmith was hard back in the day and everyone knew them. You would ask the GM at the smith to make you a weapon.

I don't know what other peoples experiences where, but I did more pvm then I did pvp and never had a real problem with pks. I learned to be quick on the recall, then learned how to fight and whenever people went to a town and said pk people were willing to go deal player justice. Later as a pk I feared seeing a gate open. Pvm was more exciting I thought knowing that a pk could come, that I could get surronded by mob and not get away because of pushback, which just made the game even less of a risk in tram. Later bags of sending made it even easier, when I found a vanq or power weapon I would recall straight to the bank and still worried about thieves not just mail it there. I hope people want a little challenge in their pvm too.

Hopefully anyone that want to play a classic shard would have a little thicker skin then the average MMO player. It would make a more mature player base and a better community without straight up "sheep". I don't think everone has to be either pvp or pvm exculsively you can have more then one character and dieing in a vidoe game isn't the end of the world even if you lose pixels.

 

[fantasy10k]

Really? Decos? Not like Vanqs and Gold?

...

Decos?

Yes decos, everyone loves decos. I hunted for years to get decos on a freeshard.

 

[Antonio Cataneo]

I'd really like some Mythic comment about this thing, at this point. The thread is getting assaulted by trolls and we are talking about hot air here. We need something to base our discussion on , not random numbers thrown around.

 

[Beer_Cayse]

... I still would love to see Ilshenar, in action, with a Fel ruleset. I just think fighting over the Ancient Wyrm spawn will get old. ...

Ummm, does not Siege/Mugen have Ilsh in a Fel-type ruleset?

To me the classic shard is one somewhere between T2A and UO:R. That means:
No runics
No varying wood types
No Malas, Ilsh, Tok, SA, Tram or weapons/armor from these areas
No beasts or foe from these lands
No Necro, Chiv, Bushido, Ninjitsu, Imbuing, Mysticism or other skills from these lands
No stonecraft - Garg City does not exist
No custom housing
No BOD system
No dyes other than those from NPCs
No Vet rewards (yes, no Ethys)
No Stat locks
No Skill locks
No selection of moongate destination - spyglass needed or take your chances
100 gp for starting cash
Resist works
Arms Lore and Item ID work
Overland spawn is 3 or 4 times what it is now
Liches can spawn in ALL cemetaries not just 1 or 2
No Greater Dragons for solo hunters to run into! This could be a "good thing" <shrug>
Guildstones are available
Gardening is not a hobby
All the "Evil" items and Heritage items do not exist.
No Soulstones or fragments

== edit #1 ==
Hard skill cap at 100
Hard stat cap 225 total with no one > 100
** you keep stats aligned to target by using the skills effectively

== edit #2 ==
Only 5 characters per account per shard.
** this I will concede could be ignored, but I thought I'd toss it in

== edit #3 ==
Armor was rated as AR. No list of resists to juggle and/or manage.
Plate > Chain > Ring/Studded > Leather
DEX penalties for various armor pieces. Only 1 or 2 helmets did not have a penalty


So to reiterate ... if it will be "classic", then make it 100% "classic" and not a hybrid beast of a thing. I once thought I would like a hybrid "classic" shard, but rethinking a lot of things made me actually want to go back pre-Tram. I did enjoy it much more then.

 

[northwoodschopper]

I personally would like to see a classic shard which was primarily pre-t2a. That was the time peroid that had to most impact on me. It was the only time where the game felt consistent and immersive. t2a wasn't a bad expansion, it was actually really good, but it just wasn't as good as legacy UO.

I don't think a classic shard would work just because it would be difficult to agree on rules and balance. And also, lets face it that UO did made some progress as well as set backs in interface and skills, and it'll be hard to cast away some of that progress merely for keeping 'classic'.

Things I'd like to see are probably things no one cares about, like removing how localization killed the immersion of NPCs and the interface. I'd also like to see order/chaos require the lord/lady status, as that kept the participants in-line as once you lost the notoriety, you were out.

 

[fantasy10k]

Think p15 was the perfect UO, though I will play t2a also.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

If someone can provide some plausible numbers that show that EA is going to make tons of profit from a Classic shard, it is definitely going to be 100 times more convincing than, well Stratics sent out a massive bulk email to all its members and 6 people posted count me in.

1 - Again, no one can prove one way or another how successful or unsuccessful a Classic Shard will be. No one. Not you, not me, not even Mark_Mythic...because no one can see the future. It's all guess work, even for the producers and devs. Granted, they have more information than we have...but for them, this project would be a bit of a gamble. It really comes down to do they believe it is worth it or not. And so far, we have no solid commitment from them one way or the other.

2 - Where are you getting the number 6 for people that joined up because of the email? I have personally seen at least 12-15 new posters that joined the last thread, and even more that popped in and said that they reactivated their Stratics accounts just to post there.

Is Stratics a good gauge of of the UO population? I'd say probably so...at least for the current UO population. But I wouldn't base any real business decisions based on user participation, or lack of it, here. Some people just don't do message forums, and others spend WAY too much time on them...

...speaking of which...back to work for me

 

[Coragin]

I had some numbers on the cost of what a server might cost that were pretty much dead nuts on. But somehow my entire post and the ones following got deleted by someone.

I can only assume Hitler or the Gustapo, since no one has take responsibility for the removal or given any kind of reason I can only assume who might remove a post that was informative and on subject too.

 

[fantasy10k]

Many people is just watching the forum. 10 that I know does it atleast, I wouldnt registered either but I already had an account which is fairly old. I can give you a link to a forum where I linked this though, many replies.

I want to show some only fel shards, if its now allowed then just delete the post or the links, here they are anwyays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaobihyQNiQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQctgcQ1sTI

Very old movies though and yes, only faction pvp in this movie. But you see how active it can be with only fel rules?

Im in both of the movies also , as a tamer.

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

Ummm, does not Siege/Mugen have Ilsh in a Fel-type ruleset?

To me the classic shard is one somewhere between T2A and UO:R. That means:
No runics
No varying wood types
No Malas, Ilsh, Tok, SA, Tram or weapons/armor from these areas
No beasts or foe from these lands
No Necro, Chiv, Bushido, Ninjitsu, Imbuing, Mysticism or other skills from these lands
No stonecraft - Garg City does not exist
No custom housing
No runics
No BOD system
No dyes other than those from NPCs
No Vet rewards (yes, no Ethys)
No Stat locks
No Skill locks
No selection of moongate destination - spyglass needed or take your chances
100 gp for starting cash
Resist works
Arms Lore and Item ID work
Overland spawn is 3 or 4 times what it is now
Liches can spawn in ALL cemetaries not just 1 or 2
No Greater Dragons for solo hunters to run into! This could be a "good thing" <shrug>
Guildstones are available
Gardening is not a hobby
All the "Evil" items and Heritage items do not exist.
No Soulstones or fragments

So to reiterate ... if it will be "classic", then make it 100% "classic" and not a hybrid beast of a thing. I once thought I would like a hybrid "classic" shard, but rethinking a lot of things made me actually want to go back pre-Tram. I did enjoy it much more then.

I agree with all of your items except the two I made bold. First let me say this. I absolutely detest, despise, hate, loath, abhor, spit upon and spurn everything about the Age of Shadows expansion but those two skills. I think they have a place on a classic UO server as both Paladins and Necromancers have their place in the Lore of Ultima. Paladins came about in Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar and Necromancers were actually in the very first Ultima (not aklabeth), but not until Pagan did they really flesh out their lore.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I agree with all of your items except the two I made bold. First let me say this. I absolutely detest, despise, hate, loath, abhor, spit upon and spurn everything about the Age of Shadows expansion but those two skills. I think they have a place on a classic UO server as both Paladins and Necromancers have their place in the Lore of Ultima. Paladins came about in Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar and Necromancers were actually in the very first Ultima (not aklabeth), but not until Pagan did they really flesh out their lore.

In Ultima lore...yes.

On a Classic Shard...no. At least not at launch.

Also, I think some serious changes would need to be made to both skills in order for them to function fully without AoS properties. Things like Mana Leech and Life Leech didn't (and shouldn't) exist in Classic UO, and Necro relies pretty heavily on those things.

Necromancy was on the agenda for UO for a long time before AoS. I remember seeing spells lists for it, and reagents for it actually made it into the game, but the skill itself never showed up live until AoS.

Does anyone recall what the original Necro spells were??

 

[eekamouse]

Yes decos, everyone loves decos. I hunted for years to get decos on a freeshard.

Good for you. I want be doing Champs if they just drop deco. Most people won't.

 

[Invalid]

No Stat locks
No Skill locks

Sorry but these are needed and were added to stop griefing. With nothing but a pile of kindling, you could completely jack someones template. Among others...

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Good for you. I want be doing Champs if they just drop deco. Most people won't.

Well, think about it like this...

...every item in the game, whether it is useful or not, has a value in gold. So if you went to a Champ Spawn, and got some uber-rare that was worth $100000000000 gold, you could just buy whatever you wanted with the gold when you sold it.

This is one of the reasons I am against Champ Spawns on a Classic Shard.

I think most of us can at least agree that we don't want a Classic Shard with an economy like the current shards.

 

[Beer_Cayse]

Before Champ spawns where scrolls dropped there were NO locks.

Skills could not go > 100. No one stat could either with total stat cap (hard) at 225. So what you needed to do is carefully juggle the usage of skills such that you remained at the STR/INT/DEX levels you wanted by knowing what skill could/would alter what stat.

 

[phantus]

Good for you. I want be doing Champs if they just drop deco. Most people won't.

Well, think about it like this...

...every item in the game, whether it is useful or not, has a value in gold. So if you went to a Champ Spawn, and got some uber-rare that was worth $100000000000 gold, you could just buy whatever you wanted with the gold when you sold it.

This is one of the reasons I am against Champ Spawns on a Classic Shard.

I think most of us can at least agree that we don't want a Classic Shard with an economy like the current shards.

No matter the era people will still want rare or status symbol item. T2A had plenty of things. Fruit baskets, candles, rock and blood tiles come to mind. All worthless in the game. No history just items. Black sandals anyone?

Champ spawns don't seem to fit in the classic shard though. Regardless of whether they have a reward or not. That's not to say they couldn't be made into something that could. Expand them to encompass chaos/order. Make a spawn for each and if the opposite team builds up and kill the champ of the other they get some type of apropriate reward. A title or their armor doesn't decay for a day or something. It could work but it seems a little bit funky in a classic frame.

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

I can't remember the original necromancer spells myself, but I know that the first go at Necromancy during the T2A timeframe created a fun storyline within my guild simply because while we were anti's we also did some light RP and ended up having a civil war within the guild over those who wanted to be necromancers and those who didn't. Of course since the system never came out we couldn't go any further with it.

 

[Beer_Cayse]

To an extent you make good argument for including them, however it seems a large part of the board population are opting for **anything** Pre-AOS. That excludes these skills. I for one have good fun with my Paladin and my budding Necro is interesting ... but I can do without the skills.

BTW, I added 2 more items to the list ... stat and skill caps!

 

[Tanivar]

...First let me say this. I absolutely detest, despise, hate, loath, abhor, spit upon and spurn everything about the Age of Shadows expansion...

Ditto.

The BOD system, runics, and the loot monsters dropped being better than Crafters could make back then killed Crafting.

The Item-based combat ruined the game for those who couldn't play a hundred hours a week to get the Uber Items or the millions in gold to buy the items off of vendors. Only those who chose to, and were able to, aquire the Uber Items were able to PvP with a chance of winning, and hunt the super monsters from ML & SA. The Uber Item/Super Monster arms race was on! The Slayer of Veils or whatever it's called, 300,000 HP!? <g> What's next to give the Uber-gear users a real challenge.

My main desire in UO is a non-AoS Shard to get rid of the Item-based combat and get back to UO Skill-based combat. If that requires no Trammel, fine, as long as we can play non-PvP most of the time if we want. That would require Pking to be limited. Leaving a Guard Zone should be a hazard for non-PvP Crafting Template players, not a suicidal act .

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Before Champ spawns where scrolls dropped there were NO locks.

Skills could not go > 100. No one stat could either with total stat cap (hard) at 225.

You understand that when people are referring to Skill and Stat locks they are talking about the little up, down, and lock icons you see next to your skills, right?...not higher skill caps and stat caps.

I don't feel like looking it up right now, but I am pretty sure stat/skill locks were in before Powerscrolls.

 

[eekamouse]

This thread should be locked.

Everyone is twisting everyone else's words. You are worse than politicians.

I wanted Champ Spawns with no rares, just extra gold and possibly vanqs and stuff.

I wanted BODs but without AoS. BODs were in way before AoS. BODS ... HELPED... crafters, not the reverse. Artifacts and the AoS changes to BODs hurt them.

Champ Spawns, BODS, even Ilshenar are not bad "all by themselves". Period.

You can't just be against "Champ Spawns". You CAN be against Champs Spawns that drop PS's or Artifacts. I get that.

This thread and others like it are dumb, and so are people like me who get sucked into it.

I hope they never make a classic shard ever. FEH!!

 

[Invalid]

You understand that when people are referring to Skill and Stat locks they are talking about the little up, down, and lock icons you see next to your skills, right?...not higher skill caps and stat caps.

I don't feel like looking it up right now, but I am pretty sure stat/skill locks were in before Powerscrolls.

He also voted for Pub 16 originally, which happens to include over half the stuff on his list that he doesn't want.

 

[Beer_Cayse]

... That would require Pking to be limited. Leaving a Guard Zone should be a hazard for non-PvP Crafting Template players, not a suicidal act .

And there you have exactly what it was for me when I first started. I farmed hides in Hind Valley/Moonglow and there was 1 or 2 blues that did me in. Oh well.

When I finally got up the skills to hit the cemetary, I was PKd by a red. Oh well. He had the decency to at least NOT dry-loot and when I came back after rez was able to get my.

Hard cap of 700 was difficult to juggle but it could be done with care. Oh! I just thought of another one - accounts were limited to 5 characters, not 6 or 7 per shard.

 

[fantasy10k]

This thread should be locked.

Everyone is twisting everyone else's words. You are worse than politicians.

I wanted Champ Spawns with no rares, just extra gold and possibly vanqs and stuff.

I wanted BODs but without AoS. BODs were in way before AoS. BODS ... HELPED... crafters, not the reverse. Artifacts and the AoS changes to BODs hurt them.

Champ Spawns, BODS, even Ilshenar are not bad "all by themselves". Period.

You can't just be against "Champ Spawns". You CAN be against Champs Spawns that drop PS's or Artifacts. I get that.

This thread and others like it are dumb, and so are people like me who get sucked into it.

I hope they never make a classic shard ever. FEH!!

Well, bods arrived with p16, not TOO far away from AoS .
Champs will bring actions to dungeons, true. But it will also ruin the economy very fast more or less.

 

[Beer_Cayse]

I agree with the definition of PvP vs PK, however it was my experience that the blues were the worst. Chat you up a bit then all of a sudden dirtnapping you. Just for jollies or because they hated your hat or something. But that's still in the game.

I like your comments on the AOS exodus versus Tram and agree 100% there. In actuality, I canceled my account after stripping it entirely - because of AOS. It was only a year later that I even considered coming back.

 

[Invalid]

Well, bods arrived with p16, not TOO far away from AoS .

That's not true. Pub 16 added more rewards to the already existing BoD system.

 

[Beer_Cayse]

yup - and as I noted have had a change of heart. Silly me! <shrug> I'm now firmly of the mind that T2A era would be more suited to me. Oh well.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

You can't just be against "Champ Spawns".

I can.

This thread and others like it are dumb, and so are people like me who get sucked into it.

I hope they never make a classic shard ever. FEH!!

That's not very nice.

Bad mouse! Bad!

 

[eekamouse]

Well, bods arrived with p16, not TOO far away from AoS .
Champs will bring actions to dungeons, true. But it will also ruin the economy very fast more or less.

Bods did NOT arrive with Pub 16!

You have proof that Champs will ruin the economy? How? What if they drop zero loot? What if they are just guaranteed 5 Vanq weapons and that's it? How do you know what they will drop?

Champs are hectic, fun, invite PvP (probably), etc.. etc... etc.... ETC...

Champs and BODS are ultimate win. All other arguments are invented. If you want to get into specifics fine. But people are just tossing random junk out, and inventing when stuff came out.

Who cares WHEN something came out. If it's a good idea, it's a good idea regardless of the publish date....

 

[Invalid]

Champ spawns originally came out with the Third Dawn expack, before powerscrolls.

Ethys were also pre-pub 16. Pub 16 added the casting delay to them.

 

[Tanivar]

This thread and others like it are dumb, and so are people like me who get sucked into it.

I hope they never make a classic shard ever. FEH!!

That's not very nice.

Bad mouse! Bad!

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Bods did NOT arrive with Pub 16!

You have proof that Champs will ruin the economy? How? What if they drop zero loot? What if they are just guaranteed 5 Vanq weapons and that's it? How do you know what they will drop?

Champs are hectic, fun, invite PvP (probably), etc.. etc... etc.... ETC...

Champs and BODS are ultimate win. All other arguments are invented. If you want to get into specifics fine. But people are just tossing random junk out, and inventing when stuff came out.

Who cares WHEN something came out. If it's a good idea, it's a good idea regardless of the publish date....

I agree with you eekamouse about that last statement. I think purists can't see the forest for the trees sometimes.

But I do understand the concern over champ spawns.

Champ spawns would probably be fine on a classic shard as long as the following conditions were met:

- No special drops of any kind that are unique to the spawns. No rares, no artifacts, etc.
- No guaranteed drops of anything specific. Make the drops like treasure chests used to be...random based on level.
- The creatures that spawned at them, besides the champion, should carry minimal loot...or none.

The objective is to not replicate things that have broken the current UO economy.

As for BODs...all I will say is no thanks. They did nothing besides encourage scripters and dupers. The only reason anyone even cared about BODs was the chance to get runics. If the runics are gone, and all of the skill enhancing items are gone, what exactly would you get as a BOD reward? Just gold? I can't see the point.

And tailoring reward cloth = NO WAY! NO NEON CRAP EVER!

 

[Tanivar]

Bods did NOT arrive with Pub 16!

http://www.uoguide.com/BOD

Blacksmith BODs were released November 30, 2001. Tailor BODs came with Pub 16.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

haha... BODS could be in for all I care, just not the higher end runics like vainq and power. Thing is crafters in the classic ERA didn't need help like this... most pvpers would go out with exeptional GM smith equipment. They made a nice living and I knew many...

Champ spawns... sure why not, but make them temporary and increase the level according to more interest from the players. Might help to provoke some guildwars and PVP...

If there is only one champ spawn on the shard, those that will complete it deserve a few higher end weapons for sure, assuming pks and other pvpers will come in to compete... maybe it needs to be adjusted for the classic rules. For example if it's challenged for too long, it would reset.

This is what this thread is for, so we can discuss the pros and cons of certain systems...

keep discussing ! noone needs people to start giving extremist opinions about anything...

We even have a sticky by Dakkon up there with stuff we supposedly agree with, but I don't agree with all thats in there... theres even stackable potions as a bug or glitch "fix" which makes no sense to me, because sometimes you wouldn't loot pots because it was long and not really worth it for example, and this made it so when the murdered came back to his spot he had a chance of at least recovering some things, or be able to pop a pot that would allow him to survive another attack.

I really ask myself why posts are removed without notice and why such a sticky made its way there without anyone else aprooval.

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

I agree with you eekamouse about that last statement. I think purists can't see the forest for the trees sometimes.

But I do understand the concern over champ spawns.

Champ spawns would probably be fine on a classic shard as long as the following conditions were met:

- No special drops of any kind that are unique to the spawns. No rares, no artifacts, etc.
- No guaranteed drops of anything specific. Make the drops like treasure chests used to be...random based on level.
- The creatures that spawned at them, besides the champion, should carry minimal loot...or none.

The objective is to not replicate things that have broken the current UO economy.

I could see a champ spawn done that way. As long as loot isn't way overboard like it is on current shards. I also wouldn't mind if a unique decoration for your house dropped off the champion at the end so that your guild could have something to show how they killed whatshisname king of whoshelflangle despite attempts by The Black Company, Shadowclan Orcs, 3-6 Mafia, UberLeet Script Kiddies, etc... to roll them while they fought the spawn down. Nothing that would give an in game advantage though.

As for BODs...all I will say is no thanks. They did nothing besides encourage scripters and dupers. The only reason anyone even cared about BODs was the chance to get runics. If the runics are gone, and all of the skill enhancing items are gone, what exactly would you get as a BOD reward? Just gold? I can't see the point.

And tailoring reward cloth = NO WAY! NO NEON CRAP EVER!

Agreed. SAY NO TO NEON CRAP! ohh and Runics too.

 

[Coragin]

*** DISCLAIMER ***
When I say "Hitler" I mean "someone" But I prefer to put a name to the unknown person. I am NOT attacking anyone personally or directly since I dont know who this person is.
*** END-DISCLAIMER ***

I had already made a couple posts explaining why the current player-base would not be able to adapt to the old style, but Hitler removed it for no reason. I will try again and hope Hitler does not remove it again.

The Reds and Blues of today's player-base are vastly different from the days of old. Most Blues will not be able to adapt to the environment. Blues of old, weather they could or did pvp or not, knew how to defend themselves and escape. Blues of today's game who do not pvp will not adapt to the play-style of old. This is due to the Reds and PvP'ers of today's player-base.

The current state of today's pvp is that most of Fell is dead save for a small group of people who are bored with the state of pvp as it is now. If this new server would come to be, Reds and Blues would go to check it out. However the current player-base of Reds would not change their play-style, instead they would continue their gank tactics, killing for no reason, smack talking, childish behavior and grief tactics. The Reds of old were not like this, most did not grief players and do gank squads, most. And considering how bored the player-base of Reds are now, they will be drooling to come to this server and "Kill the Trammies". And they will and they will grief, res kill, gank and be total children, they will not see this server as any different than what they are playing on except they have more easy kills. Most Reds of the days of old did not res kill you, did not grief and talk smack and basicly act like a total child. And I can almost totally without hesitation tell you the children will come out of the woodwork to ruin the experience of this server.

In the end, most Blues will go back to their normal servers out of frustration. Some will adapt, most will leave the server. And it is sad because the work and money to go into making this server would be in vein due to the children of today's pvp scene.

Second:

As I stated before Hitler deleted my other post, if this were to come to a reality, there are some rules that need to be in place for the new server.

These rules are as follows:
1. Double or Triple the cost of housing.
2. Limit the gold any monster drops, generally average 200gp ish. Dragons about 900-1000gp, max.
3. No Bags of Sending
4. No Checks
5. No Rares or Neon
6. No vet rewards of any kind.
7. No land past T2A
8. No newer monsters or gear.
9. Only Old Style Housing.
10. No Lockdowns
11. No Secures
12. House Keys only, just like back in the day.
13. No Champ Spawns or Power Scrolls
14. 700 point skill cap for everyone.
15. No new skills.
16. No BODS.
17. Original karma system, Reds could be red from just snooping. Aggressive monsters were red, neutral were gray, good were blue. Grey never attacked you.
18. Guild Deeds and House Deeds.
19. NO BLESSED ITEMS
20. ALL skills and spells put back to their original state.
21. No Focus or Meditation!! I cant stress this enough.
22. No artifacts or replicas of any kind ever.
23. No transfers to or from.
24. Bring back the bounty system
25. Murderers are not allowed in town and NO BANK in Bucs Den.

Now that is my list to revert, I am sure I will think of more but that is the most I can think of right now. I hope Hitler will not remove this post too, just in case, I saved this one and I will re-post it if Hitler removes it again without warning or explaination. Takes a while to write these Hitler, put that into consideration.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Tailors could have reward clothes with some quests without them being neon... some colors ARE nice, and some dye tub colors look neon.

Remember ImAnEwBiE ?

moderate your own posts people... keep it flexible or we'll run into a wall again.

The more I think about it... meditation is a bad idea for PVP, maybe it could be used in a PvM setting under strict regulation, like that it could render a character PVP useless because of the skill.

A message could come up : "You are currently in fear of being murdered and cannot concentrate"

 

[Coragin]

Oh yea and all char start with 100gp
And NO SPELL CHANNELING ITEMS!

 

[Coragin]

NO MEDITATION! That skill and Focus were NOT in classic UO! Mages wore plate a lot of the time! You want classic, then GO CLASSIC!

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

Coragin,

I don't think you understand the style of player that will come back to a classic shard. Sure, current subscribers will check it out. Some will like it and stay, others will go back to playing the item based game they have today. I don't think current subscribers will make up a majority of the player base on a classic shard.

I think the players who resubscribe to a classic shard will know FROM EXPERIENCE what they're walking into. They will know there are gank squads and trash talkers. Most will have probably been playing on free shards for the last several years and will know how to deal with these problems. The skill of the player base on a classic shard will probably be higher than the skill of the player base during the actual T2A time frame simply because back then UO was new to just about everyone. Now we've had 13 years of UO, and about 12 years of Free shards to practice on.

Communities will develop within this PvP environment, just like those that formed before. Anti-PK guilds will rise to fight the PK's and Gankers and PvP with the PvPers. Merchant Guilds will re-establish themselves and other guilds will help them out to secure discounts on wares, just like in the old days. In turn these guilds will teach players who have never been in a non-con pvp environment where skill and preparation mattered more than items how to live in said environment.

In the end, I'm sure, we'll all have our own personal reasons for staying on or leaving a classic shard, but I'm willing to bet more people will stay on it than will leave it.

 

[fantasy10k]

Bods did NOT arrive with Pub 16!

You have proof that Champs will ruin the economy? How? What if they drop zero loot? What if they are just guaranteed 5 Vanq weapons and that's it? How do you know what they will drop?

Champs are hectic, fun, invite PvP (probably), etc.. etc... etc.... ETC...

Champs and BODS are ultimate win. All other arguments are invented. If you want to get into specifics fine. But people are just tossing random junk out, and inventing when stuff came out.

Who cares WHEN something came out. If it's a good idea, it's a good idea regardless of the publish date....

People will only do champs because of the benefit, its not fun to do a champ... Like I said, they will only do it if they gain a lot from it. With the gold that droppde from champs when I played was way too much and lower then that nobody wont do it anyways.
Its not really a good idea to make champs.