Champion Spawns Additions

[BoneDaddy]

you would still need 70 of them to go from 50 to 120. Even if you farmed the living daylight out of Tram spawns, considering the best you can get is 0.5, we would still be looking at 140 SoT taming scrolls. So I'm not overly concerned there..

Yep. Yer right...

Nobody has ever duped anything in UO!!
I :bowdown: to the ...


Seriously... This is exactly what is wrong with our world today.

All wrapped up into one little publish from UO.

Nono hurrying up the advancement of the skill (alacrity) wasn't good enough, now we must GIVE the skills away!!


Needless to say I believe the scrolls are a ridiculously stupid idea.

Now, before you go and bash me about how hard taming is and blahblahblah... My first GM skill was cooking. It took me forever (and several mice) to GM this skill. The skill is/was practically useless when I did it. I have hundreds of thousands of cooked fish as a result of me pulling them apart one by one and clicking like crazy. I GMd for the sake of GMing because I had never seen anyone on Napa with a Chef title. I cooked on boats, in dungeons, in towns, at my house, everywhere I could for that title. I display my fish and bread, to this day, as a reminder of the time it took me to GM cooking.

So... three months from now I willl be able to go on a shopping spree in Luna and find someone with plenty of scrolls (how did that happen? strange huh? all .7s of one skill and .9s of another...6s of a different..) and will now be able to buy my skills up to whatever I want.



What happened to a sense of accomplishment?

Dedication?


I would rather you guys look at the structure in place and determine what is fair and unfair regarding the amount of time it takes to GM (and higher) skills instead of allowing an ADHD shortcut to bypass the very game that we are paying to play.

We are paying to play the game, let us play it!

By having us bypass the very game that we pay to play you are shortening the UO lifespan of your customers. From a business standpoint, this is just simply stupid.



I agree with a previous poster.

With the handing out of artis, imbuing, fake skill adding scrolls...

It seems to be a matter of time before I have my character transferred to the Test Center shard...

 

[Minerva Foxglove]

*to those complaining to devs about lag, they are devs, not network admins*

I like these additions. I don't see them as being overpowered because of farmers because there are many skills in this game. The chances of getting 10 taming scrolls each being 1.0 is very unlikely. You would have to be uncannily lucky to get that in one day. Fel is .5-1.0 alogn with chances 1 out of a number of skills. So no, no one might be that lucky. Will probably end up with many camping scrolls, lmao.

As for the replicas of old rares...please. The big reason people are unhappy is the rare value. They want to be the only ones with these items. The fact that the real ones wont have replica on them should be enough. And rare hunters will look for the ones without replica stamped on them. With the game being this old, people need to move beyond vanity for pixels in this game. Plus, it's not like they are destroying the messed up economy in this game anyways. We need to remember the goal is to attract more players to this game.

Well said! To keep nice old items out of reach for most people is just dicouraging and doesnt make people hang in and play as this will do. Old veterans should be happy if the game attracts people and not ends. What will their rares be worth if it does?

 

[Lord Vader]

...

Would you want to goto college and work for something like lets say your masters for a year or two, get done, and see it being handed out to new people who haven't spent the time, worked as hard, done as good etc. I'm sure you would love it. But hey, it's alright because that's what kind of world we're in right?!

I suppose you know that "game experience may change during online play"?
Whys everyone so concerned about the value of "their" items?
Its pixels, nothing belongs to anyone except to EA, yea you invested time to get your stuff. Now there are possibilities announced to get that stuff faster, and people already start crying "unfair, new players get it faster than i did". Its a game, the fun should be getting the stuff you need and use it, who cares how others get that same stuff? (except for duping)

*shakeshead*

 

[Bigmikeuk]

Oh FFS! Don't spawn these items in Tramel! I suck at PVP and need some easy kills!

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Traveller]

The fact that this stuff is in trammel too, means it will be farmed like crazy and its value will drop to that of GM armor in a matter of days (weeks at most).

*shrugs*

Well, that means I won't have to waste time farming it, I will just have to buy it at discount prices.

 

[Silly Seadog]

To bad the rewards aren't fel only.

I'm not hating here, just pointing out that three months from now after the rush is over, expect posts about spawn bots farming 24/7 in tram rule sets. I also expect spawn bot AI to make an exponential leap in sophistication a month after this publish goes live.

Arrrrrr, the beauty o' that would be that anyone and ev'ryone could a-jump in ta get a shot at the new drops. And then ye could wave it in front o' the bots' faces and say 'Thank ye kindly'!

 

[Sir_Bolo]

You however must be on the subserver or you are removed from the list. If you are dead, the item could drop on your corpse (not on your ghost).

What happens if you are dead and you stay on the subserver as a ghost but your corpse has decayed? Are you removed from the list?

 

[Traveller]

What happens if you are dead and you stay on the subserver as a ghost but your corpse has decayed? Are you removed from the list?

Currently silver (and i think powerscrolls too) drop on ghosts...

 

[Gandie]

This is great changes! It will even out the playingfield even more (pvp wise) and give new players a better chance to get skills faster!

 

[Anakena]

Currently silver (and i think powerscrolls too) drop on ghosts...

And it is actually abused by some tamers farming silver.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

The fact that this stuff is in trammel too, means it will be farmed like crazy and its value will drop to that of GM armor in a matter of days (weeks at most).

Some of the items will be spawn specific. For instance, Orc Chief Helm has a 10% chance of dropping from an oak spawn going by the example posted => on average 1 Orc Chief Helm off 10 oaks. 10 oaks takes a bit of time to do. Plus the fact that most of the items will go poof every two to four months based on the usage. So, I would say that your prediction is quite off.

However, I suspect that the drop rate could be lowered a bit to ensure that it has a longer lifetime.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

You know what is always good is just when UO gets a little tedious we get something new and exciting to talk about! I think one thing we can all agree on is that UO players LOVE new items. We all flock out in hordes to get as many shiny new playthings as we can possibly cram into our overpacked houses and banks (this last event is proof of that) so now we have even more nice things to look forward to. We can all sit here and complain about it but when it gets right down to it the people who are being negative are going to be out there doing fel and tram spawns to get as much as they can for personal use or resale. Rares collectors, you can wear your special items to the spawns to make sure everyone knows how much better your items are. People will still be impressed with "Original rare items" no fear chickies!
There are actually alot of good possitve things coming out of this:

#1. It's going to give alot of players an experience they probably never thought they would get, an opportunity to successfully run and finish a spawn and get rewards for it! Wooot! Go Trammies!

#2. The pvper's will potentionally get to loot something besides a tired old powerscroll (snore) off of a fresh kill who didnt have time to insure their shiny new toy! Wooot! Go pvper's!

#3 The sorely neglected Tram and Tokuno spawns will get visitors again! Ilsh will once again be a fun place to go.

#4. The people who aren't on the faction bandwagon have something to look forward to that they don't have to join a group or be a certain level or even have enough silver to participate in.

One last thing to remember. If all we ever do is complain and gripe and stomp our feet and throw tantrums cause we don't get our way or we just like the way our keyboards sound as we are pounding away in self righteous anger is that we CAN quit if we don't like it. Plus, noone said EA had to do new things to make this game entertaining. I think its awesome that a game that has been around as long as UO is still trying to please their players, new and old.

 

[Traveller]

So, I would say that your prediction is quite off.

*shrugs* matter of opinion. Hold dear that belief, if you wish.

Still we can learn much from past history. Everything farmable in trammel is now almost worthless, with the exception of something with the drop rate of a crimson cincture. But the statement of Regine seem to indicate that it won't be the case.

Good for me, though, I won't be wasting much gold on that stuff.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

Mmm Doom Artifacts? keke.

Everything farmable in UO, whether in fel or trammel, will eventually become worthless if it not consumed. It is the speed which is different. Fact that these items cannot be repaired ad infinitum make them a bit of a special case. Yes, things don't break that fast but this can always change with future publishes.

Oh and I am willing to put a wager on my opinion

 

[drawn]

...

Would you want to goto college and work for something like lets say your masters for a year or two, get done, and see it being handed out to new people who haven't spent the time, worked as hard, done as good etc. I'm sure you would love it. But hey, it's alright because that's what kind of world we're in right?!

LOL! get out of the house more. UO < IRL

 

[Traveller]

Mmm Doom Artifacts? keke.

Are you serious? With very few exceptions (those whose demand is higher), they are worth almost nothing since they changed the drop rate. The prices dropped dramatically. I have been astonished to find doom arties on vendors for as low as 400K. A staff of the magi sold for 1M. And those prices are for stuff whose drop rate is supposed to be about 1/100... Draw your own conclusion, I don't mind.

Everything farmable in UO, whether in fel or trammel, will eventually become worthless if it not consumed. It is the speed which is different.

Obviously. What I am contesting is your opinion that a 1/10 chance for non-stop farming would be low enough for the items to retain its price. There are so many guilds specialized in farming champs... I have seen the trend in other games, no reason why UO should be different in that respect.

*shrugs* Not my problem, really. I will continue to play until the game is fun for me, I will stop paying, as I already did, as soon as I am bored with it.

 

[drawn]

No one's unique item is being crapped on. The new items are tagged "replica" and thus the older ones are still distinctly different.

Think about it this way.

If you're a legitimate rares collector, why do you want a rare item? Just to have it. To collect, because that's what you do.

I will take a wild guess that there are exactly zero dupers who were duping, or buying duped items, to collect them. No, I'd guess most of those were getting this stuff to use them.

So if you're a legitimate rares collector, duping itself has hurt you far more than this will.

This maintains the value of your item, because it's the original and is visibly so. Collectors will still sell to collectors, for collection purposes, at outrageous amounts unaffordable by players such as myself.

And those of us who want good items to use, rather than only to collect, will be able to obtain them without either supporting duping or paying unaffordable amounts.

-Galen's player

great post! why waste good items in a museum? let us use them!!!

 

[Sarphus]

No it leads to the tamer always getting the item... but i think it is.. only for raided situations, if you raid someone that they have worked all that time for the item, and you jsut walk in and take it.. then noting, but then if you work all the way you have a chance to pick it up... or something like that hehe

Your analysis is based on a flawed perception that tamers do more damage than everyone else. I have a high end tamer with extremely good pets, a dexer with mediocre gear, high-end caster with 5 of the super slayer spellbooks, bards and so on.

My dexer can easily out-damage my tamer unless I run a pack on my tamer (and take a lot more risk than my tamer has to). If I run a crimson dragon, which a lot of people would at a spawn, I don't do as much dmg on my tamer as I do on my mage or my dexer.

Tamers don't do more damage than well built dexers or casters. In fact, they don't even come close.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

Draw your own conclusion, I don't mind.

Doom artifacts have been also around for how many years? I am drawing my own conclusion and that conclusion has always been that your analysis that all of the items will be worth the same as GM armor in few weeks is a gross exaggeration.

However, the current proposed drop rate seems to be bit high for sustaining the system in terms of years.

 

[Sarphus]

Um, risk vs reward? And I'm sure 99% of the people who do this in fel will gladly give you all their 105 scrolls. Or head there yourself, theres moongates all over to take you there.

It would make sense for the fel spawns to just not drop 105's anymore.

That being said, on the risk v reward front we have to take into account that the trammelites will be dealing with paragons while the felucians will not. Ever try a cold blood spawn in ilsh? It's deadly!

I think these changes will bring about changes as to what is considered a spawning char. You'll have chars that are designed for spawning in ilsh and chars that are designed for spawning in fel.

I'm still wading through this thread, but so far no one has been talking about how some drops may only drop on the ilsh spawns in bedlam and twisted weild. Both spawns have altars.... both are much harder than any champ spawn in fel. Both have unique champs that are not found in fel.

I bet both spawns will also have artifacts that can't be found in fel.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

Also want to place a bet with me in how long it'll take me to gain enough of these new scrolls to finish a complete character from 50/50? I just deleted two characters a week or so ago out of boredom. :X.

longer than it would take to script.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

100M 40-12 instantly in skill XYZ woohoo!!

would be a lot cheaper to just buy an account.

i think this is a decent idea. it will reward honest players for their time.

 

[Sakkarah_]

I'm still wading through this thread, but so far no one has been talking about how some drops may only drop on the ilsh spawns in bedlam and twisted weild. Both spawns have altars.... both are much harder than any champ spawn in fel. Both have unique champs that are not found in fel.

I bet both spawns will also have artifacts that can't be found in fel.

That is correct. Twaulo (Twisted Wealds), Serado (Tokuno), Ilhenir (Bedlam) and Meraktus (Labyrinth) each have a unique artifact and themed deco items. So for those, Feluccans will have to go to these specific champ spawns to get the rewards.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

You can thank whoever came up with the evil-in-a-can spawn back in 2001 for Ilshenar so that the Mythic developers could copy it.

Evocare

 

[phantus]

I'm still wading through this thread, but so far no one has been talking about how some drops may only drop on the ilsh spawns in bedlam and twisted weild. Both spawns have altars.... both are much harder than any champ spawn in fel. Both have unique champs that are not found in fel.

I bet both spawns will also have artifacts that can't be found in fel.

That is correct. Twaulo (Twisted Wealds), Serado (Tokuno), Ilhenir (Bedlam) and Meraktus (Labyrinth) each have a unique artifact and themed deco items. So for those, Feluccans will have to go to these specific champ spawns to get the rewards.

I was hoping that was gonna be the case. Reason to do those spawns for sure. Soooooo.......any time frame on this publish?

 

[Sarphus]

Name it.
There's simply not enough incentive for people who normally do not go to Fel to enter Fel now to get the same items they can get in Ilshenar and Tokono spawns.

Twice the points and double scrolls with protection, the powerscrolls, the skulls and the special reward for doing the same thing but with a bit more risk. I don't know but it is actually appealing to me. Then again, I mostly play Fel and I enjoy PvP so I guess I'm even more biased!

I'm completely against the line of thought that you're going on here.

We don't need more incentive for people to do spawns in fel. A lot of people (myself included) will do spawns in fel just to avoid paragons. Paragons at champ spawns are a bigger risk than getting raided (on a non-cam shard), because you will deal with the paragons every time, and paragons for some spawns are a more deadly than raiders. It's very dangerous to have 2 paragon dragons on you, for example.

Well... I'm opposed to that aspect of where you're going with this statement. I don't think we need more incentive to spawn in fel.

I'm not against not being able to use justice in trammel ruleset. The whole point of justice is to protect against raiders (which we have lost sight off in modern UO).

 

[Traveller]

Doom artifacts have been also around for how many years?

Conveniently forgetting the above-mentioned change in drop rate of about one year ago?

I am drawing my own conclusion and that conclusion has always been that your analysis that all of the items will be worth the same as GM armor in few weeks is a gross exaggeration.

No doubt, that is called a hyperbole. If you are interested in a quantitative estimate I think that more realistic numbers are probably in range of 100K-1M. Not sure about the exact timeframe, depends on too many things, first of all the exact drop rate. But unless it is changed drastically, not "a bit", I am pretty sure that's the average price this kind might hope to achieve, may it be after 1 month or 6 months.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

You however must be on the subserver or you are removed from the list. If you are dead, the item could drop on your corpse (not on your ghost).

ok, what if you leave the subserver and come back?

what if your body decays but you are still standing there dead?

If none of the people on the list are present when the champ dies, then a random player among those who helped killed the champ will receive the reward.

how would it be possible that none of the people on the list are present? don't you get put on the list if you attack the champ? what about barracoon who poops out spawn? does that count as spawn or what? could you maybe show us the list (on Test Center only) after the spawn?

The SoTs are totally independent of the boss. Whenever you work the spawn you get a chance at receiving a 105 or a SoT scroll. In Trammel, you will only get the SoT, in Felucca you will get one or the other.

so this means there's a check for the item and in trammel u get a SoT and in Fel you get a 50/50 chance of SoT or 105... or is it 2 different checks for SoT and 105 in Fel.

 

[Turdnugget]

Anyone know where to find stats/mods on each of these new proposed items?

 

[JC the Builder]

I doubt this is going to be a very popular opinion, but the drop rates of these rewards is way too high. If this is going to last a long time then the rewards drops are going to have to be cut drastically.

Lets take the Lord Oaks example. Lets say it is done 20 times per day (keep in mind there is an Oaks spawn in Ilshenar). That means

2 spawn no reward (10%)
2 spawn a Orc Chieftain Helm (10%)
9 spawn the wind spirit or one of the 4 animated water tiles (45%)
7 spawn one of the 6 Replicas (Survival Knife, Djinny Ring, Lt. Sash, Samaritan Robe, Detective Boots or Knowledge Robe) (35%)

That is one shard per day. That is only one spawn out of over 20. There are 26(?) shards. Then multiple that by 365. Within one year the market will be absolutely flooded with these items. Even though you can not use Powder of Fortification on them, they will last a very long time if you take care of them well. I have never had to powder any of my items beyond the initial boosting up to 255.

Doom had what, a 2% drop rate on artifacts? +20 Power Scrolls used to have 10% but I think it is up to 20% now. Look how long these systems have lasted. These numbers have to be reduced a lot or else everyone will have what they want very quickly. I think we could probably outfit the entire HOT guild (nearly 100 active members) within 2-3 weeks. Certainly before the end of the year at these rates.

 

[Viquire]

Regine and Leurocian, does the fact that you're introducing the new Scrolls of Transcendence mean that you've given up on figuring out how to give us a decent skill gain rate for skills that cap out at 100? And that you've given up on trying to come up with additional content to let people gain up to 120 in certain skills (e.g., spellweaving and taming) naturally, without the use of the scrolls?

Are the skill gain algorithms so complicated that you guys are just throwing your hands in the air and giving up on the idea of "fixing" them so they work correctly with all skills, whether they only go to 100 or they go to 120? Are you basically trying to tell us, but not in so many words, that if we choose to try to raise a skill like lockpicking to 100 just by picking locks and by not using one of these scrolls, things will never get better? If we don't want to spend months doing it (or years, in the case of trying to get to 120 taming), we MUST buy or go hunt at the champ spawns in order to get the scrolls?

If the answer is that you've given up on the idea of trying to tweak the skill gain algorithms so they work consistently for all skills and instead you're throwing some other object whose receipt is also governed by the damn RNG at the problem, then I'm truly out of here.

I would much rather see you fix the problems in the game so EVERYONE who plays, not just those who delight in hunting and especially those who love to PvP, get some benefits from your work. It's wonderful that you're doing something to make champ spawns, especially the ones outside of Fel, more attractive. But if part of the reason you're doing it is because you think you've come up with an "easy" solution to an issue that's flustered people for years, I'm sorry....I just can't swallow it. Fix the problems, please. Quit throwing more pixel crack at us.

THIS on the other hand is a very viable concern and I would like to hear more about the systems in question aaaand, I would also like to know if we are planning on immediately introducing new skill bump scrolls for the new skills released in SA as soon as it goes live.

Hmmmmmm?

 

[Bombastic Fail]

I am sure I will get flamed by the anti-fell people when I say this but..


What about Harrowers? Anything new added to them? After all they ARE THE CHAMPION OF CHAMPIONS right? Hence; Harrowers are only spawned in fell; so that will rain on the non-pvp consensus, but still..

Lets give the ol Harry some lovins!!

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

If your understanding of the drop rate is correct?

Then yes, you're absolutely right that this is far too high.

If the intent is to make these items non-rare, that's a very different thing than making them common.

Only a 10% chance of no drop whatsoever means a 90% chance of a drop. Yes, that's way too high.

What I'm hoping was that they meant that first there's a check to see if anything drops. Then a separate check to see what drops, and as part of that check there's a 10% chance that nothing will drop.

I think you're probably right though, and if you are then I'd agree a 90% chance of something dropping is far too high.

-Galen's player

I doubt this is going to be a very popular opinion, but the drop rates of these rewards is way too high. If this is going to last a long time then the rewards drops are going to have to be cut drastically.

Lets take the Lord Oaks example. Lets say it is done 20 times per day (keep in mind there is an Oaks spawn in Ilshenar). That means

2 spawn no reward (10%)
2 spawn a Orc Chieftain Helm (10%)
9 spawn the wind spirit or one of the 4 animated water tiles (45%)
7 spawn one of the 6 Replicas (Survival Knife, Djinny Ring, Lt. Sash, Samaritan Robe, Detective Boots or Knowledge Robe) (35%)

That is one shard per day. That is only one spawn out of over 20. There are 26(?) shards. Then multiple that by 365. Within one year the market will be absolutely flooded with these items. Even though you can not use Powder of Fortification on them, they will last a very long time if you take care of them well. I have never had to powder any of my items beyond the initial boosting up to 255.

Doom had what, a 2% drop rate on artifacts? +20 Power Scrolls used to have 10% but I think it is up to 20% now. Look how long these systems have lasted. These numbers have to be reduced a lot or else everyone will have what they want very quickly. I think we could probably outfit the entire HOT guild (nearly 100 active members) within 2-3 weeks. Certainly before the end of the year at these rates.

 

[JC the Builder]

Lets give the ol Harry some lovins!!

Absolutely, the Harrower should not be left out. I think the best item (which is probably the guard sash, that thing is going to be worn by every PVPer) should be given out by Harrowers only.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I am sure I will get flamed by the anti-fell people when I say this but..


What about Harrowers? Anything new added to them? After all they ARE THE CHAMPION OF CHAMPIONS right? Hence; Harrowers are only spawned in fell; so that will rain on the non-pvp consensus, but still..

Lets give the ol Harry some lovins!!

Hmm. It's an interesting thought.

Not arguing against you per se, yet....But let me ask you something. As long as there are new characters, there will be a need for stat scrolls. And even vets seem to always be making new characters, and I don't have the impression most people use an old character and re-train it. They might but it's not my impression.

So...Basically, if I'm right wouldn't that mean there'd always be a need to spawn the Harrower, even without an additional reward?

-Galen's player

 

[Bombastic Fail]

Absolutely, the Harrower should not be left out. I think the best item (which is probably the guard sash, that thing is going to be worn by every PVPer) should be given out by Harrowers only.

Maybe the highest items should be on the harrower. Like the sash; the ari shroud, and whatever else? Because I know ANY SINGLE CHAR in the game can benefit from those 2 items. Any other items like that?


LETS GIVE THE HARRY SOME LOVINS!!

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

I tend to agree with JC too about the drop rate being high. However, it might be more interesting to lower the durability of these items (maybe 125?) in combination with a modest decrease in drop rate (25% chance of not getting an item, for instance). That way it will not be as frustrating as good old doom - raise the demand instead of just going postal on the supply.

 

[Viquire]

I doubt this is going to be a very popular opinion, but the drop rates of these rewards is way too high. If this is going to last a long time then the rewards drops are going to have to be cut drastically.

Lets take the Lord Oaks example. Lets say it is done 20 times per day (keep in mind there is an Oaks spawn in Ilshenar). That means

2 spawn no reward (10%)
2 spawn a Orc Chieftain Helm (10%)
9 spawn the wind spirit or one of the 4 animated water tiles (45%)
7 spawn one of the 6 Replicas (Survival Knife, Djinny Ring, Lt. Sash, Samaritan Robe, Detective Boots or Knowledge Robe) (35%)

That is one shard per day. That is only one spawn out of over 20. There are 26(?) shards. Then multiple that by 365. Within one year the market will be absolutely flooded with these items. Even though you can not use Powder of Fortification on them, they will last a very long time if you take care of them well. I have never had to powder any of my items beyond the initial boosting up to 255.

Doom had what, a 2% drop rate on artifacts? +20 Power Scrolls used to have 10% but I think it is up to 20% now. These numbers have to be reduced a lot or else everyone will have what they want very quickly. I think we could probably outfit the entire HOT guild (nearly 100 active members) within 2-3 weeks. Certainly before the end of the year at these rates.

Right JC, but remember as opposed to say all the different items a group might have recieved for doing Mel at ML release, each boss kill looks to give only one item. Assuming the average number of people working a spawn will be five and with an uncertain number of additions for drops we really aren't able to make any predictions on how long it will take for people to accumulate multiples beyond their personal usage for sale.

Personally I'm not all that familiar with the length of the possible EM items, but betwixt them and the deco items Id say we are nearly doubling the available pool of drops, if you dont include Tokuno as it is not an "always on" system.

Will these items stay at the top of the heap for forever? All indicators point towards a large shift in item accumulation and use once SA is released and we are having opportunities to max out our gear beforehand this time around as opposed to the release of AoS which nerfed everybodies gear all to hell for six months.

I think I like this leveling system better.

 

[Sarphus]

Absolutely, the Harrower should not be left out. I think the best item (which is probably the guard sash, that thing is going to be worn by every PVPer) should be given out by Harrowers only.

well guard sash is listed as one of the items that drops on all of them. Maybe harrowers drop something even better

 

[Bombastic Fail]

Hmm. It's an interesting thought.

Not arguing against you per se, yet....But let me ask you something. As long as there are new characters, there will be a need for stat scrolls. And even vets seem to always be making new characters, and I don't have the impression most people use an old character and re-train it. They might but it's not my impression.

So...Basically, if I'm right wouldn't that mean there'd always be a need to spawn the Harrower, even without an additional reward?

-Galen's player

I guess; but it would be in no way more than any scroll right? Since theres how many skills that can use a 120? IDK about you, but being in a spawning guild; i usually try to get at least a 115 of EVERY scroll on all my chars; some 120s, just because you never know when you need to put the skill on; temps get nerfed; need a char to hold skill from a soulstone, etc... you know??

But in addition; why would you make every "champion" have rewards, and not the "CHAMPION OF CHAMPIONS" not have one? I mean in reality, thats why you are SUPPOSE to do the spawns (in fell at least) for the skulls. All the other stuff is extra.

But seriously, if anyone wants to flame answer this. You dont think the main boss should get rewards? Give valid reasons if you think not. Not just "I cant do it since I like to PVM in tram" you know? Really valid reason.

Thats like buffing up all champs and making them harder (like they did) and then keeping the harry soloable by 1 guy since "He didnt have rewards." No fighting or flames here; I just think...


We should give the Harrower some lovins!!

 

[drinkbeerallday]

Within one year the market will be absolutely flooded with these items.

Doom had what, a 2% drop rate on artifacts? +20 Power Scrolls used to have 10% but I think it is up to 20% now. Look how long these systems have lasted.

why do you want to go back to the days of AoS where a select few had uber items and were able to dominate PvP for a whole summer. that was a disaster.

These numbers have to be reduced a lot or else everyone will have what they want very quickly.

who cares? that is a good thing.

 

[Bombastic Fail]

I tend to agree with JC too about the drop rate being high. However, it might be more interesting to lower the durability of these items (maybe 125?) in combination with a modest decrease in drop rate (25% chance of not getting an item, for instance). That way it will not be as frustrating as good old doom - raise the demand instead of just going postal on the supply.

Oh and for the record; I think the drops should be extremely low.
1-5% chance in tram; 5-10% in fell.
Maybe raise/lower it dependant on the spawn (Coon, Lowest. Oaks, Highest)

 

[drinkbeerallday]

If the answer is that you've given up on the idea of trying to tweak the skill gain algorithms so they work consistently for all skills and instead you're throwing some other object whose receipt is also governed by the damn RNG at the problem, then I'm truly out of here.

if this is going to turn into a huge whine-fest I'd rather the SoT's are not offered in Felucca. let the Trammelites fight over it. keep Fel out of it.

 

[drinkbeerallday]

Absolutely, the Harrower should not be left out. I think the best item (which is probably the guard sash, that thing is going to be worn by every PVPer) should be given out by Harrowers only.

in that case harrowers should be made harder to spawn. a new challenging spawn (harder than oaks) should be added to Felucca.

also the choke point PvP that favors large guilds should be addressed.

 

[Flora Green]

I think this sounds fun and finally something to do in Ilsh besides paragons.

 

[Bombastic Fail]

in that case harrowers should be made harder to spawn. a new challenging spawn (harder than oaks) should be added to Felucca.

also the choke point PvP that favors large guilds should be addressed.

IDK bout a new spawn.. You do know it requires you to do each of the 6 spawns, and get the skull for each, all in fell (while usually fighting other guilds) right? Thats already a lot harder than 1 spawn IMHO.

Not to mention; doing all that work; then gettin raided at it; and you lose all that work. So you can just see its already rough.

 

[phantus]

I doubt this is going to be a very popular opinion, but the drop rates of these rewards is way too high. If this is going to last a long time then the rewards drops are going to have to be cut drastically.

Lets take the Lord Oaks example. Lets say it is done 20 times per day (keep in mind there is an Oaks spawn in Ilshenar). That means

2 spawn no reward (10%)
2 spawn a Orc Chieftain Helm (10%)
9 spawn the wind spirit or one of the 4 animated water tiles (45%)
7 spawn one of the 6 Replicas (Survival Knife, Djinny Ring, Lt. Sash, Samaritan Robe, Detective Boots or Knowledge Robe) (35%)

That is one shard per day. That is only one spawn out of over 20. There are 26(?) shards. Then multiple that by 365. Within one year the market will be absolutely flooded with these items. Even though you can not use Powder of Fortification on them, they will last a very long time if you take care of them well. I have never had to powder any of my items beyond the initial boosting up to 255.

Doom had what, a 2% drop rate on artifacts? +20 Power Scrolls used to have 10% but I think it is up to 20% now. Look how long these systems have lasted. These numbers have to be reduced a lot or else everyone will have what they want very quickly. I think we could probably outfit the entire HOT guild (nearly 100 active members) within 2-3 weeks. Certainly before the end of the year at these rates.

It amuses me to no end that people are looking at the UO RNG numbers projected and are actually assuming it's going to work in reality as it does on paper. How many people believe the drops are going to follow the percentage listed? If you believe that 1 out of every 10 champs will drop one of the top tier items then I have some ocean front property in CO I'd like to sell ya.

As for HOT being decked out in 2-3 weeks.....what couldn't 100 active members do in 2-3 weeks? Seriously, what is the problem? You worried about new pixel crack being available? Is this going to hurt your pvp game?

The game can't always be tailored to power gamers. There are plenty of people that play this game that aren't going to be decked out in 2-3 weeks because they don't play 5 hours a day. Pretty sure those people are the majority and power gamers are not.

 

[Hoffs]

Maybe raise/lower it dependant on the spawn (Coon, Lowest. Oaks, Highest)

This is an excellent idea. It will mean people are not out farming only rats all day long.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I guess; but it would be in no way more than any scroll right? Since theres how many skills that can use a 120? IDK about you, but being in a spawning guild; i usually try to get at least a 115 of EVERY scroll on all my chars; some 120s, just because you never know when you need to put the skill on; temps get nerfed; need a char to hold skill from a soulstone, etc... you know??

But in addition; why would you make every "champion" have rewards, and not the "CHAMPION OF CHAMPIONS" not have one? I mean in reality, thats why you are SUPPOSE to do the spawns (in fell at least) for the skulls. All the other stuff is extra.

But seriously, if anyone wants to flame answer this. You dont think the main boss should get rewards? Give valid reasons if you think not. Not just "I cant do it since I like to PVM in tram" you know? Really valid reason.

Thats like buffing up all champs and making them harder (like they did) and then keeping the harry soloable by 1 guy since "He didnt have rewards." No fighting or flames here; I just think...


We should give the Harrower some lovins!!

Oh, having an item out of the reach of the vast, vast majority of players (who never set foot in Felucca and never join spawn guilds? I'd definitely argue that is one of the most valid reasons there is.

However, is it enough for me to actually disagree with you?

I don't know yet....I'd need to think some more.

The Harrower and I have a long history and a complex relationship.

You see, I literally stumbled by accident into the very first Harrower spawn on the LS shard, and I'm pretty sure I was the first person to actually do damage to it (very hard to tell when something has that many hit points). It was quite thrilling.

In fact I've hung a fair amount of RP fiction around the Harrower, and it seems like since that day, all boss monsters have targeted me first. This is, of course, just perception and coincidence. But that I, one of those highly annoying rationalist types, could so much as have this bizarre perception shows how much of an impact being at the first-ever Harrower spawn on my shard (and the second ever in the game) had on me.

So the idea of assigning a special reward to the Harrower has an inherent appeal to me.

However, though I am frequently found in Felucca (despite my well-known distaste for it), I am very unlikely to ever be in a spawn guild again. And let's face it, with rare exceptions the days in which a Harrower spawn was a public event are long, and sadly, gone.

Basically, this means that I need to face the fact that I will never again have the chance to fight my favorite monster in the game. And thus I'll never have a realistic chance at getting whatever special item they assign to the Harrower, should they choose to do this.

So I can see both sides of this, in a very personal way.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Oh crap, I didn't factor in that these items are going to be non-PoF-able.

Do you still think the drop rates are too high, in that light?

-Galen's player

I doubt this is going to be a very popular opinion, but the drop rates of these rewards is way too high. If this is going to last a long time then the rewards drops are going to have to be cut drastically.

Lets take the Lord Oaks example. Lets say it is done 20 times per day (keep in mind there is an Oaks spawn in Ilshenar). That means

2 spawn no reward (10%)
2 spawn a Orc Chieftain Helm (10%)
9 spawn the wind spirit or one of the 4 animated water tiles (45%)
7 spawn one of the 6 Replicas (Survival Knife, Djinny Ring, Lt. Sash, Samaritan Robe, Detective Boots or Knowledge Robe) (35%)

That is one shard per day. That is only one spawn out of over 20. There are 26(?) shards. Then multiple that by 365. Within one year the market will be absolutely flooded with these items. Even though you can not use Powder of Fortification on them, they will last a very long time if you take care of them well. I have never had to powder any of my items beyond the initial boosting up to 255.

Doom had what, a 2% drop rate on artifacts? +20 Power Scrolls used to have 10% but I think it is up to 20% now. Look how long these systems have lasted. These numbers have to be reduced a lot or else everyone will have what they want very quickly. I think we could probably outfit the entire HOT guild (nearly 100 active members) within 2-3 weeks. Certainly before the end of the year at these rates.