What I don't understand is why an item like this ever made it into the game in the first place... whatever nerf they make should make it 100% useless in PVP. Its entirely possible the game won't recover from the damage this suit has done to pvp.
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Beastial suits and pvp breakdown.
- Thread starter Vyal
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*Update* - The devs know the suit is an issue and are currently exploring their options. Messana just visited my shard to ask people their opinions, which I thought was incredibly impressive personally. Messana was open to suggestions on changes to suit, removing it possibly, disabling its pvp impact, etc... (not saying any of those things are what will happen)
Keep the ideas and feedback comming, please be descriptive and give examples on your view (whichever way it may lean).
- Thank you Messana, you came off very knowledgeable and we share similar views on the game. -
Keep the ideas and feedback comming, please be descriptive and give examples on your view (whichever way it may lean).
- Thank you Messana, you came off very knowledgeable and we share similar views on the game. -
TBH... there is no way you pvp without this suit. It is ridiculous. I competent player in this suit WILL NEVER BE KILLED 1V1. A medicore player is VERY VERY hard to kill 1v1. If everyone uses THE SAME SUIT that means the SUIT IS GROSSLY OUT OF BALANCE. This suit should never have been added to the game.
I pvp'd before this suit was available, so yeah there is a way. I am not saying that everyone has to wear the suit, I am saying that everyone can wear it. If everyone wears it then yes you will have an equilibrium or balance when it comes to the basic suit.
On the contrary, many players will choose not to wear it because they will need more imbuing space.
On the contrary, many players will choose not to wear it because they will need more imbuing space.
This is a very bad idea to implement.
What...it's OP so ban it?
So then, poisoning is (or was) OP so it should be removed from pvp? GD's/Dreadmares, Throwing, Sampires, Mages, Dexxers. I have seen posts for years that at one time or other called each of these OP. You think they should all be banned from PvP?
How about a reasonable adjustment to make them useful but not OP?
So make it not overpowered. Then the issue is resolved and everones should be OK with it (well almost everyone - someone will always complain).
kelmo
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Do not give up yet, Storm, TBH and others. Stand up and continue to be heard. Change is not going to be easy, but if you want more involved in the PvP scene, change is gonna have to happen,
Honestly.. if you wanna quit because you can't have an overpowered suit on, don't let the door hit ya. It needs to be toned down, and it will always be powerful unless super toned down. But right now, the 5s timer makes it a GIANT issue unless a cooldown timer is implemented inbetween the rage effects.
too many people complain that their favorite template/style got nerfed. I loved playing a WOD archer, a mystic box dexer, a ninja mage, and a pot chucking archer. I don't cry that they aren't as viable.
These things happen in the name of balance. The bestial suit does not fit the mold. If you are going to have an effect that makes you relflect as much damage as it does, you should have to give up more than imbuing intensity and item slots, as those are easy to work around.
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yeh right ! you want to balanced the game! I have the suit ...I dont use the suit I find it a peace of junk and not worth the points i spent to get it! would like both my imbuing components back and my points!
It kills me that certain players want any suit/template/items removed or nerphed to worthless that gives their template any competition! If you asked every pvp player what the top 2 templates are you would get nearly the same response every time ....you want balance take these templates from the top !
you want to adjust the suit a little go for it! but people who are saying give it exceptional long timers or remove it completely are the type ruining the game
and if you dont like that ...dont let the door hit you!
Even if they made this bestial suit completely useless in pvp it wouldn't do anything except nerf yew gate pvp for the people who use this suit. there are other problems far worse than this suit Imo...
Poisoning = Way OP, and pots getting a +3-5% bump is hardly noticeable [good with alchemy though, Like it should be, [good job there].] basically it's becoming more and more difficult to pvp with a any mage without poisoning, mystic, or necro. without evil omen poison, its hard as $!@# to poison someone if they run resist + poisoning, and even if you do poison them you interrupt the first two cures and the poison gets nullified by that passive orange petal $@!#, just stupid Imo, limiting the amount of effective templates is NEVER the right decision, it happened when tactics was required for specs, and when spec toggling didn't work through casting/holding spells... tons of people quit because it ruined alot of characters, and made pvp even more dull.
Look at the templates the majority of people are pvping with today.... Mystic-DP-Mage, Necro-DP-Mage, DP-Scribe-Mage. Ninja-Bushido-DP-Dexer, few variants of Throwers/Archers & tamers. If your template isn't in this list, congratulations you're probably going to be F#%$ing Amazing when all this OPness gets balanced out right.
Bestial suits - should just start the berserk state at a lower percentage in HP. (30% down from 40%) would still be effective, but the window for smoke bombing would be smaller & obviously people wouldn't live as long During the berserk state.
Fix protection & stone form, These should not co-exist you should have to pick one or the other.
Fix Poisoning - Remove the passive Cure, ESPECIALLY if they get a bonus to resisting poisons, wtf are you thinking?
Cure pots are fine with the new patch, and very much noticeably better with alchemy = skill. ***5 second cooldown on cure pots [cooldown removed with Alchemy skill 100.0] make more like this please?
Poisoning = Way OP, and pots getting a +3-5% bump is hardly noticeable [good with alchemy though, Like it should be, [good job there].] basically it's becoming more and more difficult to pvp with a any mage without poisoning, mystic, or necro. without evil omen poison, its hard as $!@# to poison someone if they run resist + poisoning, and even if you do poison them you interrupt the first two cures and the poison gets nullified by that passive orange petal $@!#, just stupid Imo, limiting the amount of effective templates is NEVER the right decision, it happened when tactics was required for specs, and when spec toggling didn't work through casting/holding spells... tons of people quit because it ruined alot of characters, and made pvp even more dull.
Look at the templates the majority of people are pvping with today.... Mystic-DP-Mage, Necro-DP-Mage, DP-Scribe-Mage. Ninja-Bushido-DP-Dexer, few variants of Throwers/Archers & tamers. If your template isn't in this list, congratulations you're probably going to be F#%$ing Amazing when all this OPness gets balanced out right.
Bestial suits - should just start the berserk state at a lower percentage in HP. (30% down from 40%) would still be effective, but the window for smoke bombing would be smaller & obviously people wouldn't live as long During the berserk state.
Fix protection & stone form, These should not co-exist you should have to pick one or the other.
Fix Poisoning - Remove the passive Cure, ESPECIALLY if they get a bonus to resisting poisons, wtf are you thinking?
Cure pots are fine with the new patch, and very much noticeably better with alchemy = skill. ***5 second cooldown on cure pots [cooldown removed with Alchemy skill 100.0] make more like this please?
V
Vyal
Guest
Have you even tried the suit or seen what it does to raids and pvp in general? I think you should back up, see the problem it is & how it takes the skill based player versus player combat out.
All these changes are doing is adding a little more balance, however you will still have a chance to chug 20 pots before you get a cure on a DP & thats stupid.
I think people with the suits should be able to turn them in for 2x the points or something, just remove them entirely. Unless they are made totally unusable in pvp combat someone is going to find a way to abuse and exploit them I PROMISE.
You're right about people abusing how good this suit has become with the new lower zerk timer. You're going to see more mages & dexers (basically everything except stealthers) using it now.
the suit was actually fine before these changes [stealthers were sometimes hard to kill] but the zerk timer kept the suit used with specific templates due to low hp for a longer period of time. which is why you don't see many/any people using this suit without stealth Or taming.
Now that it's relatively easy to heal up in because of zerk timer only lasting for 5 seconds, tons more templates can get away with wearing this suit. thus more bestial pvp'ers to fight.
I might finally imbue my two bestial suits, I don't play my stealth char anyway.
V
Vyal
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I told Mesanna when she was over at the fel yew abbey, 4/6 chiv healers can basically heal in rage no problems, there is a issue with the blood drinker bleeds that I never said anything about here on Stratics because if the suits never got nerfed I was going to be the one abusing it till I quit. So hope that gets fixed to.
Hey I am saying this as a guy who has been a pvper since naked mages and poisoned war forks fighting 10v10 on roofs at brit gate with blade spirits. I would just remove the suits from pvp for good. I know 1% of you will have a problem with that and I feel for ya I had things taken away from me before. Some of my pets got removed at one point, my sig dye tub, some other items I have had locked down in my house. If things can be exploited in pvp they get removed some are even bannable.
I advise anyone thinking the suit isn't OP to hop on TC1 and actually try it out, a lot of healing methods effectively still work while in rage and it's being abused left and right. If you know what you're doing w/ the suit you can very easily survive to 2-3 people at once still, the damage reduction is INSANE w/ higher levels of hp and if you understand the concept of counting to 5 you can quick heal before the next rage activates. Anyone using the suit who's still dying...i'm sorry but that's like playing UT, being the only player given a SSR, and losing left and right to players with nothing but assault rifles...your skills need some serious work.
All I'm saying is now that the zerk timer only lasts 5 seconds (after you last take damage), the suit is actually going to be OP more so than before. I didn't think this suit was that bad but after the new zerk timer hits it's going to be F@!#ing stupid OP.
zerk timer needs to be Increased OR left as it was pre-pub 75 in duration, But start at lower percentage in HP to make this suit better balanced in pvp.
The stealth changes are fair imo, but the suit could use a slight adjustment as far as zerk status/duration.
zerk timer needs to be Increased OR left as it was pre-pub 75 in duration, But start at lower percentage in HP to make this suit better balanced in pvp.
The stealth changes are fair imo, but the suit could use a slight adjustment as far as zerk status/duration.
the suit required a far more specific build to be OP before (essentially ninja-dogform-deathstrike-stealther w/ parry+resist), now you'll just see it more as it's OP for more builds. One thing that would fix it is instead of being a percentage of hp make it a flat hp amount, and a fairly low one. A lot of the overpoweredness comes from the fact that if you have 150 hp the effect kicks in when you still have nearly 100hp left and by the time you're down to "only" 20-30 hp you're taking next to no damage, combine with parry, resist, and 4/6 chiv and you're a walking tank. I like the stealth change as the smokebombing was pretty lame but ugh...the timer going down to 5 seconds actually makes it worse.
It has been..and will always be..exactly what we said / pleaded / begged / threatened to the Devs when this suit hit test center... "Do NOT put this crap in the game".
But certain incompetent Devs had their own personal agendas to push on us and this is what we got...
Good job there bucko's...
It's simply a curse to always be right.
But certain incompetent Devs had their own personal agendas to push on us and this is what we got...
Good job there bucko's...
It's simply a curse to always be right.
Just because there are a few people taking up the other side of your argument and telling you to grow up and adapt instead of whine and cry doesn't mean we only represent 1%. The overwhelming majority of players do not post on Stratics or even know this argument is even taking place.
The fact that you aren't happy about the nerf your whining got you proves my point about adapting, you won't be happy unless they remove it now. Very typical which is why I am against nerfs in general, they dont make anyone happy and just make a mess of the situation. The funny thing is now the mess will have everyone wearing the suit and you will be even more miserable, LOL.
Another clarification, anyone wearing the suit is not abusing it or exploiting it. The suit is readily accessible and there is no exploit that is making it strong. The suit is working as intended, you are being lazy and not figuring out a counter to it. That counter may require you to make friends instead of fighting 10v1 where you are the one.
TBH I would lvoe to see you pvp. Do you run a OP thrower that does 32 dmg regular throws and think your a good pvper? I guess everyone should just make a thrower since when properly suited and built they are the strongest 1v1 char in the game. Thats balance right since everyone has one. You honestly have no concept of what is good for the game.
From Bleak_Mythic in TC forums.
"...Test Center will be published with the following changes this evening:
Bestial (Berserk) Suit *Update*
Players can no longer remain in stealth while in rage. Berserk timeout duration updated to 8 seconds and greatly reduces all healing effects while in all stages of rage. After exiting the berserk state all healing is still reduced for 8 additional seconds and a cool down of 60 seconds goes into effect which prevents players from entering rage."
I think its pretty good, however I believe 60 secs is a little long. With the added effect: All healing reduced in rage and after for 8 secs, an additional cooldown of anything over 30 seems more heavy-handed then warrented. As always off to do some testing. Keep up the civil dialogue folks.
"...Test Center will be published with the following changes this evening:
Bestial (Berserk) Suit *Update*
Players can no longer remain in stealth while in rage. Berserk timeout duration updated to 8 seconds and greatly reduces all healing effects while in all stages of rage. After exiting the berserk state all healing is still reduced for 8 additional seconds and a cool down of 60 seconds goes into effect which prevents players from entering rage."
I think its pretty good, however I believe 60 secs is a little long. With the added effect: All healing reduced in rage and after for 8 secs, an additional cooldown of anything over 30 seems more heavy-handed then warrented. As always off to do some testing. Keep up the civil dialogue folks.
V
Vyal
Guest
Problem solved. Pvp can return to normal, adapt and learn to play with skill & not just hide behind some lame suit.
kelmo
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What is your PvP template?
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Vyal
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take your pick, and when comes to Siege you already know who the boss is Kelmo. What was the point your trying to make. Some my players are tamers so I hide behind pets? I have 3 tamers out of 20 or so characters just so happens I made a tamer on Siege at least he isn't a stealthing ninja gargoyle tamer in a beastial suit.
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you first
kelmo
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Vyal
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Im on siege looking for you Kelmo, I was told your on ATL playing a stealth ninja rocking a beastial suit.
The beastial suit has officially become deco. Great job! This always happen when you cry nerf, they make it useless.
Never once claimed to be a good PvPer but I do PvP with and without the suit. I just dislike nerfs. Nerfs are the reason I no longer play WOW.
No it was a balance, not a nerf. The suit is still viable by a player who knows what they are doing. It will still be usefull int he right situations ( a weaver walking in a grinder to get essence of wind off)
Yeah lets make sure we get on there and do some testing. I played around with it a little and I do think the 60 secs is a bit much combined with everything else. Looking to make it more balanced not nerf it completely. I may not agree with TBH often, but I understand where he is comming from. I agree nerfs are not fun but sometimes they are needed and I think this was one of them. Alot of this type of thing can be avoided with proper testing and feedback, so In the future I strive to do my best there and hopefully prevent this from happeing again.
OMG I bought a human and garg bestial suit 2 weeks ago, and haven't even imbued them yet. I'm soooooo quitting the game because of my wasted 400k cleanup points!!!
Hehe, whatever. Silly people.
Seriously though, anyone want to buy a couple unimbued bestial suits?
Hehe, whatever. Silly people.
Seriously though, anyone want to buy a couple unimbued bestial suits?
S
SugarSmacks
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The fact is they had to be told bestial were a problem. Should they need to be told this suit was overpowered extremely? Should they need to be told poisoning is way overpowered?
Notice that because not enough people are not complaining about throwing they did nothing about it yet again?
Still believe any member of the Dev team is really playing UO?
How successful do you truly believe a game can stay when no member of the design team plays it?
Notice that because not enough people are not complaining about throwing they did nothing about it yet again?
Still believe any member of the Dev team is really playing UO?
How successful do you truly believe a game can stay when no member of the design team plays it?
V
Vyal
Guest
I think UO has proven itself to be successful, but.......
Do you wear faction armor?
I play a thrower as one of my 5 pvp temps and yes they are overpowered. There's no way those weaps should fire THAT fast with that kinda base damage. End of story.
No it's balanced it hasn't been removed, unless you're choosing not to use it anymore that's your prerogative. As far as I can see it still has its ability just in moderation.
Also you said you don't like nerfs, so hey blessing is disguise it's like how pvp was BEFORE these suits came around, you should be happy. Its a wash, like it never happened. I'm excited with/for you.
Imo the zerk suit wasn't Overpowered Enough to be nerfed this bad... (aside from the stealth changes to it, they were fair) the suit is pretty much useless now, It doesn't bother me any since I haven't even imbued my two sets yet. but after the "new updates" to the suit it has become more of a negative handicap for the person using the suit, in the sense it takes the head/neck slots. the benefit the suit provides isn't worth sacrificing a glad collar, & folded steel/mace & shield glasses for anymore.
The cooldown is a little long imo, but you can deal with that, it's the 8 seconds after you exit berserk state in which the healing reduction is still in effect for an additional 8 seconds [without the damage reduction] that makes this suit not 'worth' using anymore.
The cooldown is a little long imo, but you can deal with that, it's the 8 seconds after you exit berserk state in which the healing reduction is still in effect for an additional 8 seconds [without the damage reduction] that makes this suit not 'worth' using anymore.
Basically what I was thinking, if its an 8 second zerk "active" 36 second cooldown.
OR
Have some type of scaled cooldown, simply based on how long a character was in zerk mode...
Example:
You receive enough damage to toggle zerk on, you are still getting hit with enough damage to keep zerk going for (sake of my post) 1 minute.
1 minute X 4 = 4 minute cooldown till you can zerk again.
Zerk "on" for 20 seconds, 1:20 cooldown.
*Side note*
Since they are applying some type of code to have a cooldown on bezerk mode...why not take a gander at stone form and protection at the same time?
Have "pools" of damage absorption for each (varied based on mystic/focus : magery/resist), once the pool is depleted you cannot recast either spell till you die or the timer resets.
^^^^
Flame away, but it makes sense.
Stone form/protection is truly abused and overpowered. Add in cleansing winds to the mix and it becomes utterly ridiculous. Some of the worst pvpers I've ever seen simply use those 3 spells in unison to be a major factor at big choke point fights. Even some of the "self-proclaimed greatest pvpers ever" (dreadmare/bake/mage tamer on Atlantic comes to mind) sit in stone form/protection and "all kill" while just cleansing themselves. It's really overpowered, and besides having to cycle through ward removal talismans (which are pretty bad in a long choke fight obviously), your only other option to remove stone form is to put on 120 mystic/120 focus, and hope your purge magic doesn't get resisted. I've chained purge sometimes up to 7 times in a row before removing form. It's beyond silly. Not to mention that while you're attempting trying to deal with this, you're eating rising colossus 24/7, which never have a problem removing most of your buffs as you're trying to mass dispel them.
Mysticism is a huge choke point advantage. Why do you think every large guild on Atlantic, GL, and LS simply choke it up with 8-10 mystics minimum for any large choke point fight?
I fear mysticism will never again be looked at as a problem skill though.
Mysticism is a huge choke point advantage. Why do you think every large guild on Atlantic, GL, and LS simply choke it up with 8-10 mystics minimum for any large choke point fight?
I fear mysticism will never again be looked at as a problem skill though.
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