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Beastial suits and pvp breakdown.

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CovenantX

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
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UNLEASHED
Stone form/protection is truly abused and overpowered. Add in cleansing winds to the mix and it becomes utterly ridiculous. Some of the worst pvpers I've ever seen simply use those 3 spells in unison to be a major factor at big choke point fights. Even some of the "self-proclaimed greatest pvpers ever" (dreadmare/bake/mage tamer on Atlantic comes to mind) sit in stone form/protection and "all kill" while just cleansing themselves. It's really overpowered, and besides having to cycle through ward removal talismans (which are pretty bad in a long choke fight obviously), your only other option to remove stone form is to put on 120 mystic/120 focus, and hope your purge magic doesn't get resisted. I've chained purge sometimes up to 7 times in a row before removing form. It's beyond silly. Not to mention that while you're attempting trying to deal with this, you're eating rising colossus 24/7, which never have a problem removing most of your buffs as you're trying to mass dispel them.

Mysticism is a huge choke point advantage. Why do you think every large guild on Atlantic, GL, and LS simply choke it up with 8-10 mystics minimum for any large choke point fight?

I fear mysticism will never again be looked at as a problem skill though.
I could not agree more. I was expecting stoneform + prot & poisoning to be higher priority on the "nerf list" before the bestial suit, but instead poisoning is still being buffed up (not including pot changes, which shouldn't even happen imo anyway) after all, the only reason poisoning was buffed in the first place, is because of CURE POTS auto-cure without the chance of interruption is stupid as F@$!. the bestial suit just isn't worth using if they stick with the new "updates" to it.
 

spoonyd

Seasoned Veteran
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Stratics Legend
I could not agree more. I was expecting stoneform + prot & poisoning to be higher priority on the "nerf list" before the bestial suit, but instead poisoning is still being buffed up (not including pot changes, which shouldn't even happen imo anyway) after all, the only reason poisoning was buffed in the first place, is because of CURE POTS auto-cure without the chance of interruption is stupid as F@$!. the bestial suit just isn't worth using if they stick with the new "updates" to it.
Couldn't agree more with your comment on bestial suits....THANK GOD the uber n00b open field pvp is done. I think poisoning will still be fine but more balanced so your chances of going thru 15 cures is really small.
 

Speaking the Truth

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Since it's being brought up I agree with the last few posts. Bestial suits just needed a timer on them, I think the healing change after they come out of rage is a bit extreme.

Next though the stone form+ prot+ cleansing winds needs to be looked at. The only people that would disagree would be the same type of people that claimed bestial suits didn't need to be changed one bit. It's funny the only people who claim things like that are the ones that want to abuse things like that, rather than have things balanced.
 

spoonyd

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I've been complaining about prot/cleansing for months but I gave up. My opinion is you shouldn't be able to cast cleanse (on yourself) while ur in rock form.
 

Speaking the Truth

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
It's not the prot + cleansing winds, it's adding stone form the three together are like the bestial suits, it's way to powerful. A sub par player can live vs many players just sitting in that form and casting cleansing winds over and over.

This should probably be in another thread but just so we're staying on the subject of mysticism that needs to be reworked some, hailstorm should be split damage like every other targetable AoE.
 

darkvulf

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
just for example on atlantic , they should make it if you are in a zerg guild such as win the bestial suit takes this new change, but if you aren't in a zerg like win it stays as is
 

G.v.P

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
It's not the prot + cleansing winds, it's adding stone form the three together are like the bestial suits, it's way to powerful. A sub par player can live vs many players just sitting in that form and casting cleansing winds over and over.

This should probably be in another thread but just so we're staying on the subject of mysticism that needs to be reworked some, hailstorm should be split damage like every other targetable AoE.
they made poison the main counter to a mystic, and they continue to try and up poison...a group sticking DP should be able to take down a mystic np. don't know why they made it so mystics can run in stone form though, which was a needless change (old change, now). not sure why they did that. hailstorm is a nice choke point counter, but I agree it's odd they didn't split damage when they implemented the spell. like you said, every other spell is split.
 

frostbolt

Seasoned Veteran
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Stratics Legend
It's not the prot + cleansing winds, it's adding stone form the three together are like the bestial suits, it's way to powerful. A sub par player can live vs many players just sitting in that form and casting cleansing winds over and over.

This should probably be in another thread but just so we're staying on the subject of mysticism that needs to be reworked some, hailstorm should be split damage like every other targetable AoE.
stop trying to nerf pvm because of your pvp issues. The game doesn't revolve around pvp, and if a mystic is in stone form then just find a different target, its not going to chase you down because you are mounted and he is not.

Seriously everything good in the game disappears because of pvp crying. You pvpers are never gona be happy until theres nothing left except auto attack, standardizing weapon stats to be the same across all weapon types, and doing the exact same amount of damage each time you hit every hit.

and hailstorm not doing split damage? weren't people complaining about mages sucking and that stuff like chain lightning should be buffed to not split damage like hailstorm in some other topic here recently? Mages already suck in this game thats why everyone plays a dexxer. If anything casters need to be buffed. hailstorm is fine.
 

Storm

UO Forum Moderator
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stop trying to nerf pvm because of your pvp issues. The game doesn't revolve around pvp, and if a mystic is in stone form then just find a different target, its not going to chase you down because you are mounted and he is not.

Seriously everything good in the game disappears because of pvp crying. You pvpers are never gona be happy until theres nothing left except auto attack, standardizing weapon stats to be the same across all weapon types, and doing the exact same amount of damage each time you hit every hit.

and hailstorm not doing split damage? weren't people complaining about mages sucking and that stuff like chain lightning should be buffed to not split damage like hailstorm in some other topic here recently? Mages already suck in this game thats why everyone plays a dexxer. If anything casters need to be buffed. hailstorm is fine.
I agree this is getting crazy ..... and yes if anything casters need buffed especially mystics they have a handful of spells and They are over powered ? next will be pooison then they will want archers and then tamers and better nerph bards because they rule!
 

frostbolt

Seasoned Veteran
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Stratics Legend
also what is "sub-par" players anyway. If you "pros" get butt hurt over not being able to kill someone you think is not as good as you in less than 7 seconds then you can always go play in arenas and never see these "sub-par eyesores" ever again. That is what arenas are there for.

Go organize a 4v4 or something in arena where everyone is wearing the exact same gear with the exact same perceived skill level so that you can finally decide who is the best.

But oh wait, arenas are too small and you can't off screen anyone? But wait isn't off screening considered running and therefore a mark of a sub-par player? Or, oh wait if I am in an organized arena then they are prepared and I can't dominate them thus showing that i am the superior player by ganking them! But wait if you are so pro, then whats the problem with fighting someone in an organized duel, unless you are afraid to lose and have no excuses to explain your loss. Excuses such as things like THERE WERE TOTALLY 5 OF YOU AND 4 OF US! or LOL UR TEMPLATE IS OP SO THAT DIDN'T COUNT!

In other words pvpers cannot decide what they want and pvpers should not be considered in matters of game balance, because anything is unacceptable and must be nerfed unless it is to their advantage.

And by they, when i say that everything must be nerfed until everything is to their advantage, i mean a properly pvp specced and geared dexxer that..
1) does not use a bokuto because lol nerve strike op
2) does not run stealth or hiding because lol stealth is coward!
3) does not use bola dismount, bushido tamed hiryu because omg 2v1! bushido taming op!
4) does not death strike because omg standing still for a few seconds is so hard
5) is not a thrower because gasp archers were there first and archery sucks in comparison
6) does not run splintering weapon because slowing prevents off screen! but only noobs run? so why does that matter? If you were pro you'd sit there and take it even if its 10v1.
7) wears no bestial suit because OMG scrub nub still alive after 5 seconds unacceptable!

did i miss anything?
 

EDA_GL

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
You both are silly.
Stoneform/protection should not be THE go-to when your in a pinch. Thats the entire idea behind our complaints. There should/has to be more thought into some type of evasion strategy than just casting two spells, then chaining one (cleansing winds).
If anything, my idea of the form/protection pool wouldnt hurt pvm at all (when do you actually take damage from a monster while pvming on a caster).
Mystic AOE spells need to have damage divided among the targets OR have mage AOE spells not split damage like they do.

stop trying to nerf pvm because of your pvp issues. The game doesn't revolve around pvp, and if a mystic is in stone form then just find a different target, its not going to chase you down because you are mounted and he is not.

Seriously everything good in the game disappears because of pvp crying. You pvpers are never gona be happy until theres nothing left except auto attack, standardizing weapon stats to be the same across all weapon types, and doing the exact same amount of damage each time you hit every hit.

and hailstorm not doing split damage? weren't people complaining about mages sucking and that stuff like chain lightning should be buffed to not split damage like hailstorm in some other topic here recently? Mages already suck in this game thats why everyone plays a dexxer. If anything casters need to be buffed. hailstorm is fine.
You pvpers are never gona be happy until theres nothing left except auto attack, standardizing weapon stats to be the same across all weapon types, and doing the exact same amount of damage each time you hit every hit.
Screw auto attack for PvP, you have to actually time bashing/casting on a target. I'm certian 90% of the PvM population already runs an auto-attack thingy.
Ummm, have you already forgotten about imbooing? "Wow! look at their suits/weapons/jewlery!? They are exactaly the same......wonder how that happened?"
 

frostbolt

Seasoned Veteran
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You both are silly.
Stoneform/protection should not be THE go-to when your in a pinch. Thats the entire idea behind our complaints. There should/has to be more thought into some type of evasion strategy than just casting two spells, then chaining one (cleansing winds).
If anything, my idea of the form/protection pool wouldnt hurt pvm at all (when do you actually take damage from a monster while pvming on a caster).
Mystic AOE spells need to have damage divided among the targets OR have mage AOE spells not split damage like they do.



You pvpers are never gona be happy until theres nothing left except auto attack, standardizing weapon stats to be the same across all weapon types, and doing the exact same amount of damage each time you hit every hit.
Screw auto attack for PvP, you have to actually time bashing/casting on a target. I'm certian 90% of the PvM population already runs an auto-attack thingy.
Ummm, have you already forgotten about imbooing? "Wow! look at their suits/weapons/jewlery!? They are exactaly the same......wonder how that happened?"
Lol we already know that "evasion in a pinch" strategies in pvp terms means running off screen while chugging potions, or smoke bomb. Lots of thought there cough. You are just angry that mystics can kind of tank your damage by protecting/stone form healing long enough for his friends to get him out of trouble instead of having to resort to either of the above. Same reason you hate bestial suits, because they can kind of tank your damage until their friends arrive to save them instead of having to run away and chug pots while hoping to live through precast flame strikes etc. Actually i take that back you hate people who smoke bomb as well. so the only acceptable thing to do is running, but thats only because you get to call them a noob in general chat because they are coward or something for trying to escape

Solution, bring your own mystic and have him cast purge magic. instantly removes both protection and stone form at the same time. there's no chance of resist either even if you have 120 resisting spells.

When i said pvpers will never be happy until every item is the same i meant having every weapon sword, axe, bow, etc all do for example a flat 10 points of damage instead of having their own variations so that there is no RNG, because apparently RNG is another excuse pvpers use when they die.

for example
-omg i wuda totally got away long enough to heal back to full if i had rng blocked your arrow, or it did 1 less point of damage or something! your win doesnt count!

As far as casters go none of you pvp dexxers will be happy until protection and poisoning is deleted, and every single spell is just a differently colored magic arrow that does a flat 5 points of damage.
 

Goldberg-Chessy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
What I don't understand is why an item like this ever made it into the game in the first place... whatever nerf they make should make it 100% useless in PVP. Its entirely possible the game won't recover from the damage this suit has done to pvp.
Coming as it is from a hypocritical Mystic/Tamer this quote is #1 on my top ten list of most dramatic & self-serving bs.

The game "won't recover from the damage" the bestial suit has done to pvp? Wow...
When you get old enough to vote you may make a good politician kid.

*shakes head*
 

Swordsman

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I also feel tired of those so-called PvPers crying for nerfing the items. People spent lots of time to turn in items to get the bestial suit, now, it was nerfed. The benefit of PvMers are not protected, why PvMers were sacrificed. It's silly.
 

G.v.P

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I agree this is getting crazy ..... and yes if anything casters need buffed especially mystics they have a handful of spells and They are over powered ? next will be pooison then they will want archers and then tamers and better nerph bards because they rule!
you're kidding, right? you can solo the gauntlet with rising colossus, lol. armor ignore on a summon...lol. mysticism is pretty OP, for PvP or PvM. maybe a RC should have a bleed attack, too? give them splintering, lol.
 

frostbolt

Seasoned Veteran
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Stratics Legend
you're kidding, right? you can solo the gauntlet with rising colossus, lol. armor ignore on a summon...lol. mysticism is pretty OP, for PvP or PvM. maybe a RC should have a bleed attack, too? give them splintering, lol.
rofl, id like to see you solo any of the monsters in doom gauntlet that can dispel in less than 2-4 hours with nothing but rising colosus if at all due to monster hp regen. Quit exaggerating pvper.

I'll solo the entirety of doom gauntlet on my dexxer in mebe an hour or less because you know dexxers are just so much better than mages in every way imaginable. and i am not being sarcastic either.

like omg colossus so op, it does over 100 damage mebe like 4 times if it stays up for its entire summon duration but has to be recast every 3-4 seconds because it gets instant dispelled from anything that matters, but my dexer does nearly 200 damage per hit every 1.4 seconds! and all i have to press is armor ignore over and over again which takes lots and lots of SKILL might i add! I don't even have to run or kite or anything! because if i get hit any damage i take gets instant healed anyway on my next attack or from a bandage.

But wait!, a caster summon that actually doesn't suck as much as magery summons can randomly armor ignore sometimes!? unacceptable! slap in the face to dexxers everywhere who can chain AI almost non stop.

Yea casters are so OP in pvm and pvp, not.

wheres my caster version of armor ignore eh?
 

Gorbs

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I'm just curious how the defenders of the bestial suit were utilizing this in pvm. Could you perhaps enlighten some of us heathens with a description of your experiences with it?

The problem with introducing an item (or set) like this into the game is that a new mechanic will not be understood by all (including developers) immediately. Sometimes it takes time to see how something is used and tweaks, or nerfs, must be made to bring the usage of the item in line with the initial expectations. I don't know that we have enough players to get a true test of the mechanics and properly balance said items.
 

frostbolt

Seasoned Veteran
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I'm just curious how the defenders of the bestial suit were utilizing this in pvm. Could you perhaps enlighten some of us heathens with a description of your experiences with it?

The problem with introducing an item (or set) like this into the game is that a new mechanic will not be understood by all (including developers) immediately. Sometimes it takes time to see how something is used and tweaks, or nerfs, must be made to bring the usage of the item in line with the initial expectations. I don't know that we have enough players to get a true test of the mechanics and properly balance said items.
You are trying to deflect the topic to something else. The entire point is that nerfs are bad, making things useless is bad. Especially when the nerfs are being done because apparently some pvper's feelings got hurt when their "sub-par" target didn't instantly drop dead when they looked at them. Same reason why the pvpers complain about stone form and protection, because they can't stroke their e-peens when they arn't PWNZOR-ING or w/e it is that pvpers do.

The bestial suit isn't even that great, 450 imbue weight and the slots it takes up forces you to sacrifice stats elsewhere. Most notably DCI, HCI, or DI. Changing it to have a 5 sec duration and unstealthable was already bad but with the 60 sec cooldown between berserk effects it is now completely useless.
 

ShadowTrauma

Seasoned Veteran
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I'm just curious how the defenders of the bestial suit were utilizing this in pvm. Could you perhaps enlighten some of us heathens with a description of your experiences with it?

The problem with introducing an item (or set) like this into the game is that a new mechanic will not be understood by all (including developers) immediately. Sometimes it takes time to see how something is used and tweaks, or nerfs, must be made to bring the usage of the item in line with the initial expectations. I don't know that we have enough players to get a true test of the mechanics and properly balance said items.
Thank you. If you go back a read any of my posts this is the exact thing I have been begging for. It is damn near impossible to test and balance an item when you have no clue what the developers intentions were. If a developer is going to put out a new mechanic like this and want it to be viable for both aspects of the game we need the formula the item operates on and to know what the item is intended for.

Honestly where most of the problems arise from seems to be a lack of good developer/tester feedback. When this patch became public we got 1 response the first day and then nothing. When Messana visited a few shards I was happy and excited that we might get some more dialogue, but since then it has been quiet again (Still thank you Messana it was appreciated).

The generalizing statements people make againt one side or the other do nothing but hurt the community at large and derail discussions. I understand people get frustrated when things they enjoy change, just be aware that not everyone is out there to get something changed to their advantage. I enjoy PvP and PvM, a game that favors one over the other tends to bore me. I posted in favor of balancing the beastial suit because it was going to make the PvP metagame more stale and repeatitive than it already is.

Am I 100% happy with how its ended up currently? No, I am not. I think they have gone a little too heavy handed at the moment, but this all loops back to what I have said about developer/tester interaction. Just be aware when you post a general statement that you are assuming you know a person's motivations. Unless the human race has become psychic all of a sudden... /jealous
 

Storm

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"/tester feedback" this is the key
I try to get people to come to test shard and Tc forum to get peoples input about these things , some people say "its not my job to test" well it is OUR game having publishes come out with 50 changes and a hand full of people testing is very hard for us to get accurate and good feed back!
If we get one or 2 people that find a problem we need many people testing that supposed problem and then get constructive feed back to fix it IF it needs it and we could avoid many of these threads and problems (not all but many)
 

ShadowTrauma

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I partly agree Storm, but it's a 2 way street. Not only are we (the testers) missing the proper information to accurately test, but we are also missing significant developer feedback.

Examples:
1) Formula the Beastial suit works on.
2) Intended use of Beastial suit.
3)Direction developers wanted the changes to go in.
etc..

Without knowing the other sides intentions, testers can only give their versions of proposed fixes. We are incapable of working hand in hand like we should be.
 

Storm

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2 and 3 I can see in most cases (always exceptions) one thing I have noticed over my many years is that the uo players have a uncanny ability to exploit or find faults in anything and take full advantage of it their is really no way a dev team can do this especially with limited staff and resources!

as to 1 I am not sure we need to get bogged down in more formulas ...as long as they work as intended (see 2)
 

ShadowTrauma

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I understand your opinion. Here is what I as a tester mean when I say I require some formulas.

***Purely hypothetical***
Beserk stage 5 - 80% chance to shrug off any attack, heals reduced by 80%.
***Purely hypothetical***

Now as a tester I can give suggestions based off that, it also lets us infer the developers intentions.
 
V

Vyal

Guest
I'm just curious how the defenders of the bestial suit were utilizing this in pvm. Could you perhaps enlighten some of us heathens with a description of your experiences with it?

The problem with introducing an item (or set) like this into the game is that a new mechanic will not be understood by all (including developers) immediately. Sometimes it takes time to see how something is used and tweaks, or nerfs, must be made to bring the usage of the item in line with the initial expectations. I don't know that we have enough players to get a true test of the mechanics and properly balance said items.
People used this suit in PVM and not just to annoy PVPers? Really?
 

G.v.P

Stratics Legend
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rofl, id like to see you solo any of the monsters in doom gauntlet that can dispel in less than 2-4 hours with nothing but rising colosus if at all due to monster hp regen. Quit exaggerating pvper.
I'm not exaggerating. I solo the gauntlet on my mystic regularly. The hardest thing is probably the Flesh Renderers because they seem to dispel the most often and have great movement speed, but between mass sleep and RCs it's pretty easy. Plus I have protection/stone form to fall back on and 75 in all resists. Also, none of the gauntlet monsters--especially the DFs--regen at high rates. If you're going to try and represent PvMers you ought to at least know what you're talking about first!
 

Phangs_of_Phage

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Frostbolt you guys are so far off with your stuff its insane. Storm as a mod I would think you had some basic understanding of good balance on the game but you seem to be completely blind to it. Everyone should have known bestial suits would get balanced out, the only suprise is that it took so long. I have solo'd the gauntlet easily on a disco bard... Its a straight joke. Mass sleep disco and rising makes quick work of anything there. I agree that hailstorm needs to be split OR mage spells need to be not split.

PS: Frostbolt please review your facts before you talk. In pvp purge magic has a change to remove 1 buff from a player. Even with a char in protection and there resist spells lowered to 85 or w/e its lowered to at 120 focus and mystic you only have about a 50% chance to take off a single buff. Making stoneform walk speed only and spliting the heal/curse removal power of cleansing better would do alot to balance mystic out. But there needs to be a cooldown timer put on mortal, deathstrike, infectious strike, and disarm.
 

Lynk

Grand Poobah
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Don't nerf mystic, bump magery to be equivalent to it.

Take of the 8 second heal blocking after berz wears off. The bers duration cap and timer in between is enough of a nerf to allow short term defensive bonus at the cost of some imbuing intensity. The heal blocking afterward makes it entirely useless.
 

spoonyd

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"/tester feedback" this is the key
I try to get people to come to test shard and Tc forum to get peoples input about these things , some people say "its not my job to test" well it is OUR game having publishes come out with 50 changes and a hand full of people testing is very hard for us to get accurate and good feed back!
If we get one or 2 people that find a problem we need many people testing that supposed problem and then get constructive feed back to fix it IF it needs it and we could avoid many of these threads and problems (not all but many)
You are so right. It IS YOUR JOB to test. Just like it is your job to vote. Don't pancake about who's running your state or country if you don't vote. The more people with pvp knowledge that test the better the patch is gonna be. Up until recently most of the core pvpers didn't care enough but things like bestial suits were just too awful to ignore.
 

PlayerSkillFTW

Babbling Loonie
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UNLEASHED
Stone form/protection is truly abused and overpowered. Add in cleansing winds to the mix and it becomes utterly ridiculous. Some of the worst pvpers I've ever seen simply use those 3 spells in unison to be a major factor at big choke point fights. Even some of the "self-proclaimed greatest pvpers ever" (dreadmare/bake/mage tamer on Atlantic comes to mind) sit in stone form/protection and "all kill" while just cleansing themselves. It's really overpowered, and besides having to cycle through ward removal talismans (which are pretty bad in a long choke fight obviously), your only other option to remove stone form is to put on 120 mystic/120 focus, and hope your purge magic doesn't get resisted. I've chained purge sometimes up to 7 times in a row before removing form. It's beyond silly. Not to mention that while you're attempting trying to deal with this, you're eating rising colossus 24/7, which never have a problem removing most of your buffs as you're trying to mass dispel them.

Mysticism is a huge choke point advantage. Why do you think every large guild on Atlantic, GL, and LS simply choke it up with 8-10 mystics minimum for any large choke point fight?

I fear mysticism will never again be looked at as a problem skill though.
What they need to do, is make it to where if you specifically target a non summon with the 6th level "Dispel" spell, it attempts to dispel their buffs. Make it's success chance based on Eval vs Resist. For Warriors, make the "Hit Dispel" property on weapons do the same thing, but make the success chance based on Focus vs Resist.
 

frostbolt

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I'm not exaggerating. I solo the gauntlet on my mystic regularly. The hardest thing is probably the Flesh Renderers because they seem to dispel the most often and have great movement speed, but between mass sleep and RCs it's pretty easy. Plus I have protection/stone form to fall back on and 75 in all resists. Also, none of the gauntlet monsters--especially the DFs--regen at high rates. If you're going to try and represent PvMers you ought to at least know what you're talking about first!
Frostbolt you guys are so far off with your stuff its insane. Storm as a mod I would think you had some basic understanding of good balance on the game but you seem to be completely blind to it. Everyone should have known bestial suits would get balanced out, the only suprise is that it took so long. I have solo'd the gauntlet easily on a disco bard... Its a straight joke. Mass sleep disco and rising makes quick work of anything there. I agree that hailstorm needs to be split OR mage spells need to be not split.

PS: Frostbolt please review your facts before you talk. In pvp purge magic has a change to remove 1 buff from a player. Even with a char in protection and there resist spells lowered to 85 or w/e its lowered to at 120 focus and mystic you only have about a 50% chance to take off a single buff. Making stoneform walk speed only and spliting the heal/curse removal power of cleansing better would do alot to balance mystic out. But there needs to be a cooldown timer put on mortal, deathstrike, infectious strike, and disarm.
Congratulations you can solo gauntlet on your mystic which i never said you couldn't do, i said that it would take you forever, so you are still exaggerating if you claim to do it "regularly". And no regularly does not mean once a month or once a week, its more like 3-4 times a week and about 5-8 complete clears at a time solo. And even if you say yes you do all that, I bet my dexxer can run doom much faster than you and all i have to do is armor ignore spam, and switch to radiant scimitar whirlwind spam on the dark father. Furthermore I took my 120/120 mystic down to doom before and it takes so long to clear a room with nothing but colossus i almost fell asleep from boredom. Therefore you havn't refuted my position, dexxers are more powerful than mages, and mages are underpowered in comparison to dexxers. There is nothing a mage has that can compare with an armor ignore spamming sampire.

Disco bards. Adding disco to any template will make almost anything in pvm becomes significantly easier. Disco bards with taming have been soloing doom long before mystics were even in the game. I suppose you should be calling for greater dragon nerfs as well? oh wait pvpers have been complaining about tamers since the beginning of forever

And finally me reviewing my facts about stuff like dispel chances and number colossus casts it takes to kill a dark father? i don't need to. If you pvpers are allowed to make up numbers in which x number of people beating on some unmounted guy in a bestial suit for x number of minutes and y number of damage and he still escaped or never died then i can use numbers i got from my tiny sample size of about 10 casts of purge magic on a guy with 120 resisting spells while he has protection and other self buffs on. But that doesn't matter anyway because if a pvper can't be bothered to bring a mystic with them to pvp to spam purge magic on a mystic who is doing nothing but standing around in stone form cleansing winds himself (hardly a threat to anyone lol), then they should wear a talisman of ward removal. Or better yet, run around them and fight someone else, because you know an unmounted person is such a great threat due to their oh so fast movement speed and their ability to catch up to someone riding a mount.

If anything you need to review your facts, because cleansing wind already has a good chunk of its healing reduced when it removes other debuffs like curses and poisons and it doesn't heal at all when removing mortal strike. Not only that but walking in stone form only? Is it not enough for you that you can run in circles around an unmounted person, but you still feel that they shouldn't be allowed to move faster than a mongbat now? Or is it the chance that they just might off screen you due to a moments distraction from their allies so horrific that you want to destroy stoneforms functions in pvm as well.
 

Obsidian

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I run a stone form mystic dexxer who runs in protection to fight PvM bosses like Slasher. Please don't remove the ability to cast cleansing winds in prot stoneform. It has uses other than PvP.
 

Speaking the Truth

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"If anything you need to review your facts, because cleansing wind already has a good chunk of its healing reduced when it removes other debuffs like curses and poisons and it doesn't heal at all when removing mortal strike"

Yea that would be fine and dandy if you could curse someone in this form to reduce the heal, or poison them ect. Instead they are immune to everything AND have increased resit caps. Also you only mortal once and as soon as they remove it with Cleansing winds or apples then you can't remortal again for at least 5 seconds.

So yes it does need to be reworked.
 

TBH

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The big difference is it seems that PvM crowd adapts to problems while the Pvp drama queens come here and cry nerf. Too bad the pvm crowd doesn't come here to speak up and counter all the nerf talk.

The beastial suit did not need a nerf, the so called good pvpers needed to adapt or swallow their pride. If anything the suit provided a good balance, it allowed new players to enjoy pvp and it added a new degree of difficulty to pvp for the veterans. It seems the vets are the same old cry babies that made pvp stagnant in the first place. You complain that there is no pvp on your shard and when you get an influx of players brave enough to take you on, you want their suit nerfed so you can run them over. You can't have it both ways.
 

Speaking the Truth

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No it was the same bad players just able to take an absurd amount of damage and then smoke bomb. They realized they did something stupid and fixed it. Good job devs!;)

You sound like you're one of those players that enjoyed actually being able to stick your neck out. Everyone will miss you, sucks you'll have to go back to your house all the time and never flag first. Hopefully it was fun for you while it lasted :heart:

If they got rid of the 8 second reduced healing after the change the suit would still be useful. If you disagree then you probably thought Word of death and Uncapped AI's were fair.
 

ShadowTrauma

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The generalizing statements people make againt one side or the other do nothing but hurt the community at large and derail discussions. I understand people get frustrated when things they enjoy change, just be aware that not everyone is out there to get something changed to their advantage. I enjoy PvP and PvM, a game that favors one over the other tends to bore me. I posted in favor of balancing the beastial suit because it was going to make the PvP metagame more stale and repeatitive than it already is.

Am I 100% happy with how its ended up currently? No, I am not. I think they have gone a little too heavy handed at the moment, but this all loops back to what I have said about developer/tester interaction. Just be aware when you post a general statement that you are assuming you know a person's motivations. Unless the human race has become psychic all of a sudden... /jealous
Yeah quoted my own post and bolded the most important parts, because the majority of the last several posts have all been PvP vs PvM and its getting a little rediculous.
 

kelmo

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In my opinion, if the changes made it to Origin Shard then it is what it is.
 

ShadowTrauma

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As disheartening as it is to hear that I also believe you are correct. It is just beyond disappointing to constantly read people attack one side or the other with baseless judgement.
 

TBH

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You sound like you're one of those players that enjoyed actually being able to stick your neck out. Everyone will miss you, sucks you'll have to go back to your house all the time and never flag first. Hopefully it was fun for you while it lasted :heart:
My eight accounts aren't going anywhere, especially over a suit that only 1 of my characters wear. And no, I don't worry about flagging, red is my hue of choice.
 

G.v.P

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Congratulations you can solo gauntlet on your mystic which i never said you couldn't do, i said that it would take you forever, so you are still exaggerating if you claim to do it "regularly".
I can clear the Gauntlet w/ my mystic mage in 30 mins-1 hour. I find it easier than using a sampire, actually. I have a chiv mage tamer, a mystic mage, and a sampire, and I use my mystic mage for most of the more difficult fights because the RNG chance at AI on the spammable RC is the best way to go 99% of the time on new content. Other times I'd rather use an energy field and direct spells.
 
H

Heartseeker

Guest
I don't see why every skill and items get nerfed in this game. And most nerfs are for Pvp which represents a very low number of the players that actually play.

I am in Fel all the time and it is empty. You can solo most spawns. Why oh why do we listen to a handful of whiny little sh!ts.

And gvp I call bs on 30 minute gauntlet run on your Mystic....
 
V

Vyal

Guest
most players actually pvp, thats what UO is. To bad it's totally unbalanced.
 

Swordsman

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Generalizations are pointless. I say most people don't PvP, take that...
I agree, the low population in the felucca side clearly showed PvP players are not a majority. The original bestial armor is trying to encourage more people going to there, now, it is screwed up by the 60s timer.
 

TBH

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most players actually pvp, thats what UO is. To bad it's totally unbalanced.
I guess it will be balanced when you can win 1v20 instead of 1v10, amiright? That is your original gripe about the suit, you lost a fight vs 10 other players because they were wearing the suit.
 

TBH

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5 of these people are using beastial suits. 2 of them are death striker smoke bombers. Two more stealthers in the suit that you can't see and a 4/6 chiv dexxer someplace with the suit. 2 of them are using speeder.
For those who missed the first page, the OP is upset because he could no longer single-handedly kill this screen full of players. Therefore the beastial suit must become deco or he will take his marbles and go home.
 
S

SugarSmacks

Guest
The bestial suit destroyed what was left of pvp on UO, at no time has 1 suit been required to ALL classes, warriors, archers, mages of all kinds. This may seem "balanced" to some younger players but older players realize it is not balanced to basically take
every other suit out of the game and have to throw it away. Defenders of the suit feel like they cant play without it, i guess im not sure why, how easy do you need UO to be? Does the fact you never ever die really appeal to you? How can you really call
a game with 0 challenges fun? I dont.

Lets go over some nerf history Poisoning was beefed and this will be its first nerf.
Bestial suits since being built, this will be its 1ST nerf.
People i see whining about mysticism should realize it has gotten 5 nerfs, yes 5.
Throwing which came out with mysticism has received 0 nerfs ever yes 0.

Lets take a look at throwing shall we? The correct way to judge if a template is truly overpowered is when the community goes to it like lemmings off a cliff (remind you of bestial suits?). I would bet currently that if you looked at the average players
account right now you would find AT LEAST 1 thrower on average per account, and on some more than one. Now stop and ask yourself how many other templates in the game are getting created like this? The answer if your not trying to cry foul on
the next persons template is probably.....none. The thrower/bestial suit combo is so common in Ultima now, its half joked by the online community as being throwing UO. While these problems normally by a competent base of MMO players would be
complained upon and nerfed to reason, instead what has happened on Ultima is a large, very large, switch to all these overpowered templates/items.

Now this is where you will begin to see the real lies being told on here. People actually think their class should utterly destroy every other class in the game. Example mysticism, no competent player really cares about a mystic, a competent player destroys them. While you may have a problem with understanding this let me explain. Ultima has always been set as a game of counters mysticism is completly countered by necro, a good necro should never die to a mystic. I have also seen a few dexxers that have owned mystics flat out, stone form pro or not, plus they could do it repeatedly which really knocked home they wernt going to die. The problem here is poisoners think poisoning isnt overpowered and should own mystics too. You also have a giant and I mean giant community who think throwing should just utterly devastate everyone and the fact a rock form pro lets them live just pisses them off. Honestly what does rock form protection serve? It serves the player not being able to run, but look around, all the complainers of it have unbelievable in game speed. I think people need to understand who is doing the complaining before listening to the complaints.

Now let me give you a wake up call. Your template no matter what it is should never own every other template. It is intended to be countered. Maybe if you get off the thrower or the bestial suit you can begin to look for the counter instead of complaining
that there was someone you couldnt kill while using the latest overpowered template.
 

Raptor85

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i like how the conversation went from

"The beastial suit is fine! it's not overpowered and should be left as is since anyone can use it!"
to the same people saying
"WTF..nerfing the beastial suit excludes people from pvp"
i mean....it can't be both, saying those is mutually exclusive, if it's not overpowered it should be quite easy to just use other armor that works just as well.

perhaps people should just "adapt" to this change instead of complaining :)

(subnote: mystic is indeed still broken, I can't speak from perspective of other shards but RC + monster ignore on siege you can easily solo anything in the game 100% safe with nothing but myst/focus, as nothing attacks you at all and the RC at 120 myst resists dispel at a insane level, which is also buffed by most use it alongside music/disco, our guild is guilty of abusing this as well, it can easily take down any of the peerless quickly, aside from mr. nomnomfatso of course, pvp-wise it still has a few cheap moves but it's broken in two ways, much like magery some spells were nerfed to the point of uselessness while some are still a bit too powerful, actually all casting schools are pretty much broken at the moment.)
 
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