People don't want to see a new Classic Shard die the way the origonal did, and for the same reasons.
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Classic shard.
- Thread starter Unsatisfied
- Start date
- Watchers 17
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Well played ma'am. That could also be a vet reward I could get behind, every month you get a few extra counts added to that or something? That will keep it fun for the PKs, but not out of control.
T
tenduil
Guest
Agree. All this 'PKing is the end of the world' talk seems more like current EA players complaining. PKing was part of the game. Stat loss was perfectly fine... wheel doesn't need to be remade to come up with some uber-anti PK policy. Again ALL the polls show people want T2A which INCLUDES stat loss reds (after they rez). Players that want a classic shard understand what it all means and do not need some new rule sets that look like their from trammel players.
Point of Note: I was not a serious PK. Did I have a red? Yes but he was not my main by any means but I UNDERSTOOD that red's were a part of the game and were one of the many reasons that the game was appealing to me.
T
theoldclint
Guest
it's either a classic shard or it isn't. what the majority of folks are talking about here is a pre-UO:R shard with exceptions, not classic. making sanctions to appeal to new players/carebears is what ruined UO for oldschoolers in the first place.
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theoldclint
Guest
it sounds like we're from the same generation of UO players. T2A was about living in a dangerous world where anything could happen and the consequences were real; UO:R ruined that. bringing back a classic shard means the same rules in T2A or earlier, nothing more/less.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
There can be no such thing a "Classic" shard by this definition. As soon as one single bug that was found after whichever date you personally consider to be "classic" is fixed...then it is no longer "classic".
Get it through your head...things have changed since whichever date you want to pick, including yesterday. There is NO way to go back. It cannot happen.
Minor tweaks to improve a Classic Shard do not equate to "carebears" or "Trammel" or any other ridiculous exaggerations you wish to trott out.
If you wish to see a Classic Shard that will be around longer than a year, you have to accept the fact that there will have to be some changes to it...even if that means simple bug fixes.
Since you seem to be the UO loremaster, perhaps you would be so kind as to pick a SPECIFIC PUBLISH or even a specific date that you would consider anything beyond that to be "not-classic"?
(be careful, I already played this little game with someone else...and he admitted I was right)
T
theoldclint
Guest
rethinking the PK system is a minor tweak?
your cautionary statement has me pretty scared, gonna moonstone over to trammel now.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
Who is 're-thinking' the PK system?
Did you even bother to read the list that everyone asking for this shard agreed on?
All of what has been suggested, and agreed upon, was in the game.
Which part is 're-thinking' the PK system?
- Stat loss for murderers?
- Reds not being allowed in towns other than Bucs Den?
- NPCs not dealing with reds?
- Healers not ressurrecting reds, have to be rez'ed by players or Chaos shrine?
All of those things have been in the game at some point. Anything else that has been discussed here is purely hypothetical.
And you still have not answered the question:
Which publish do you consider to be "classic"...???
T
theoldclint
Guest
aren't you the person who wants statloss on death? that's not classic.
T
tenduil
Guest
Think alot of yourself huh?
Anything after May 3rd 2000 is not 'Classic' as it includes Trammel and the release of UO:R. Many debate that parts of the game prior to the release of Trammel are also 'not-classic' but this 'hard' date is without question.
Patch Wise:
The March 9th 2000 patch features some changes that would be considered 'not-classic' by many including bank checks and the change to skill gain (allowing serious skill gain only in the 1st hour)
http://wiki.uosecondage.com/?title=Ultima_Online:_The_Second_Age_Patch_Notes_for_03/09/2000
Feb. 23rd, 2000 patch features secure house trading which again many would argue is not 'classic' as there was a market for 'official' house brokers.
http://wiki.uosecondage.com/?title=Ultima_Online:_The_Second_Age_Patch_Notes_for_02/23/2000
This is not to say that either of these 2 patches would be horrible but should be taken into thought. Many of the patches before UO:R contained positive fixes or measures to prevent exploits which is fantastic. It's when you start to alter the game mechanics (legal ones) that things start to get muddy.
Jesus Christ people, if any of us here try to make even a BUG FIX people start chanting the mantra; "that's not classic that's not classic". So we are all wrong because there might be a few things that make it more fun?
I like to garden, via dirt and planting outside the old school way. Not with 100% water in my basement with heat lamps. But because I use chemicals to balance the PH of my garden, does that mean people should pancake at me cause it's not 100% exactly how native americans did it? No, you can in fact go back to being classic while also adapting to the times.
T
tenduil
Guest
As your well aware he is not referring to a bug fix but a serious change in the game mechanics desired by Morgana.
In theory yes, in practice not so much, there were programs around that allowed you to run two characters at the same time on different screens, failing that you just switch to your backup and macro the red counts off when you sleep/work/etc.
I'm with Morgana on this 100 percent, because I played during the original days and the era accurate shard, and it always ends exactly the same, the pks come in butcher everyone for a few months then once they have had their fill they run off to play another game or whatever else.
I'd rather see it not happen at all then see the shard die in a few months after launch because people failed to admit there were some problems with the old days.
Most all of us agree trammel was a bad decision, but anyone who is still trying to say the blues were crying wolf is being willfully naive. I can only speak for Atlantic and Chesapeake but those two shards I killed so many blues on that the amount of loot I could make in just a few hours was sick.
However contrary to what some would think, I don't hate pks, I think they are just as necessary as any other player type in the community, you need villains to have heroes.
But as I've said elsewhere if the risk and reward are disproportionate for one side then it will always crumble. Stat loss on death really makes you think it through before you just run off going red, because one death can set you back a week or more in terms of skills.
Item insurance is the antithesis of statloss when item insurance is introduced it gives pks far less reason to even bother attacking when they realize there is no reward other than killing some noob, so we all agree item insurance is just as bad as pks without real punishment.
I don't like the jail idea primarily because I think it just complicates things more then they need to be complicated, and I really do believe stat loss on death will work fine.
And in closing this whole huge discussion is one reason I think after a certain point it goes into the hands of the devs and they can loosely follow what we want based on feedback but also take into consideration some of the issues that plagued the game during this time period.
This I know, but the only arguement people EVER have is "this is not classic" it's like a 5th grader saying they won the fight by saying "I know you are but what am I?" the entire time.
If you want us to care at all, then you have to actually put thought into your post, we already stated a while ago we are not looking for an EXACT CLONE to the old UO. So pretty much anyone who says "that's not classic" is a few weeks if not months behind, that's wasting our time here.
so let me sort it out for all of you right here and now
we want THE ITEM BASED UO GONE, WE WANT BACK PLAYER SKILL. so just because we want to remove gold winning the fight instead of human skills, we can't ask for anything else that was a positive thing in the game?
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
It wasn't originally my suggestion...but I think the idea has merit if PKing is too big of a problem...
...it's certainly better than Trammel...no?
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
We agree here 100%.
The problem is, you are saying it is okay to 'pick and chose' things that are "not classic" but when someone else suggests the same, you are saying it is not okay.
For what it is worth, I have said MANY times that I am 100% okay with a pure day 1 launch shard, a T2A shard, and May 3rd, 2000 shard.
You might have me confused with someone that thinks Trammel was a good idea...but I can assure, that is not me.
T
tenduil
Guest
For me its not really picking and choosing things as looking at the publishes and patches before UO:R and saying: Ok there was a exploit and part of patch xx.x addressed it. Exploits are NOT how the game was intended to be played and only catered to people that broke the rules. On the other hand skill gains, PKing, etc were all PART of the rules and were truly part of the game. Exploits are exploits = finding problems with the code (or whatever) and abusing it. PKing is PKing = utilizing a dynamic of the community/game and using it to your advantage.
I don't think I explained that the best way but I think you'll get it.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
I agree with what you are saying, and I have never advocated for no PKing.
To me, I always considered dead reds UMing off counts to be an exploit. UMing was against the rules, so by taking an action that was against the rules to achieve an unintended outcome...to me, is an exploit.
To me, I always considered dead reds UMing off counts to be an exploit. UMing was against the rules, so by taking an action that was against the rules to achieve an unintended outcome...to me, is an exploit.
T
tenduil
Guest
And I guess that's where we differ. The problem there then is not the timing of stat loss but rather the issue of players macroing.
I wonder how different things would have turned out to be in UO had the went forth with punkbuster. Also I remember we use to go by PKs homes and spam earthquake by them, back then it could kill you and that forced them to macro somewhere else, every little bit helps
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
Again, I agree, but no one has ever been able to find a way to police UMing, not in 13 years. So my suggestion is just in lack of a better solution.
I'd much prefer that EA could launch the shard, exactly as it was in the past, and not have to worry that it would shut down, or be Trammelized...but I have seen enough posts, played on enough free shards, and was there when it happened the first time...so I know what will be the end result of a shard like that.
I wish more people (not aimed at you) would take a step back, and consider the long term consequences of what they want. It does none of us any good (besides opponents of a Classic Shard) to have a shard that is destined to fail right out of the gate.
S
SoulStealer A.O
Guest
well written
One other thing, a lot of people don't understand that a lot of the folks who use to PK would rather just PvP Order/Chaos or Guildwars now a days. I mean, especially since the majority of the people who have played freeshards with the T2A ruleset (and some T2A shards with no stat-loss) know exactly what and how and why servers are ruined by pks). In many discussion by old school folk who post on the topic they all agree something needs to be done with PKS.
You will see less PKS and more anti-pks this time around and those who are of true "pk" nature in every game they play, well- that's apart of it too. We know UO wasn't perfect, and there were problems and thats why the game is what it is today. A lot of us who miss the old UO will take it exactly as it was. If you don't want to, well- thats cool, if there is a classic server just don't play.
I personally won't be pking if there is, but I would leave the ruleset exactly how it WAS. If things need to be changed they can always be changed. I am cool with statloss on death or a higher % of statloss then the old ruleset if that is a change EA feels they need to make,
I think folks are getting too excited about the PK issue and I for one having played only T2A freeshards since 03 whenever I go back to UO from other MMO's, don't think it will be as huge as a problem as some of you think.
As far as macroing goes, people are going to do it, regardless. It happens in every MMO and it did back in the day on OSI. Have unattended macroing illegal and leave it at that. Make skill gains harder to gain in houses (I think they did that at one point)
W
woolygimp
Guest
I quit immediately after Trammel was introduced and I still support the stat-loss on death idea.
When a blue left town, whether he be a miner/adventurer/crafter, he usually had significantly more at risk than the naked red who ran around with 10 reagents in his pack who had absolutely nothing to lose.
If that red goes on a murder streak and kills several blues, there needs to be a risk for him as well - and that risk includes significant set backs if he is to be killed immediately afterwards. This change would make develop risk for rampant reds making the risk between the sides more on "par" with the very blues he's hunting who are often decked in gear.
I had a red character as well and I see nothing wrong with this change. Nobody here wants to see PKing "disappear" they just want a diverse server balanced between adventurers, crafters, harvesters, and criminals... and not just a server devoted to 100% PvP.
The game is more fun when it's in balance, for everyone involved.
Being red SHOULD be a challenge. And I think it was far too easy with the old ruleset once you owned a house.
Keep in mind, such a change would dissuade UMing because those reds would have more at risk if they were to be discovered at their house and killed.
If blue PKs become a problem, which they won't because they can only kill 1 person every 2 days, and stay blue... just extend the long term count slightly.
When a blue left town, whether he be a miner/adventurer/crafter, he usually had significantly more at risk than the naked red who ran around with 10 reagents in his pack who had absolutely nothing to lose.
If that red goes on a murder streak and kills several blues, there needs to be a risk for him as well - and that risk includes significant set backs if he is to be killed immediately afterwards. This change would make develop risk for rampant reds making the risk between the sides more on "par" with the very blues he's hunting who are often decked in gear.
I had a red character as well and I see nothing wrong with this change. Nobody here wants to see PKing "disappear" they just want a diverse server balanced between adventurers, crafters, harvesters, and criminals... and not just a server devoted to 100% PvP.
The game is more fun when it's in balance, for everyone involved.
Being red SHOULD be a challenge. And I think it was far too easy with the old ruleset once you owned a house.
Keep in mind, such a change would dissuade UMing because those reds would have more at risk if they were to be discovered at their house and killed.
If blue PKs become a problem, which they won't because they can only kill 1 person every 2 days, and stay blue... just extend the long term count slightly.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
Good post Woolygimp. I am glad to see that others understand what I was trying to say.
Anyway, I think I am going to call it quits here for a while. I still support the idea of a Classic Shard, but I think we are wearing out our welcome with the topic.
I sent some PMs out to some folks, but anyone that wants to get in touch can visit my guild's website. Not sure I can post the URL here or not, but it's pretty easy to figure out if want to.
Anyway, I think I am going to call it quits here for a while. I still support the idea of a Classic Shard, but I think we are wearing out our welcome with the topic.
I sent some PMs out to some folks, but anyone that wants to get in touch can visit my guild's website. Not sure I can post the URL here or not, but it's pretty easy to figure out if want to.
Hello All:
I have not played UO for a couple of years now. I merely came back to stratics just to peek on whats going on. Many of you dont know me some may remember me. My game name was DENNAR and I played LS. (the name I use here is a long story stemming from the stratics melt down years ago)
I was known as the biggest Trammy there was. I hated PK's and Griefers. I petitioned against cheaters. I left UO when cheaters were constantly being rewarded and PVP was becoming something that was rewarded or was forced on players. I am not here to debate that topic, just giving the basis for my comments.
A classic server does not need all the things that I see in this thread. None of this is what made UO so great back then. Here is a list from a player that hated PvP but appreaciated what it meant.
1. UO was new back then. The whole construct was what made UO great. Build skills to get better. Limited--I repeat--limited rewards. Most players used PLAYER made equipment.
2. There was no power hour. It took months to GM skills--imagine that GM was the highest skill level.
3. EBAY was huge for UO. Where else could you play a game then turn around and sell your efforts and make some real cash. Imagine gold selling for $300 a million? That happened back in 98.
4. People were kind of forced to work together. If you left town--to go to your house you may find PK's waiting for you. People understood that it could happen to everyone. So when someone came into town and asked for help because of PK's several people responded.
5. Housing was so limited you could make a living in real life placing houses in a game.
6. Imagine a server full message for your shard?
I wont go into other details but I was one of the ones yelling for new land masses so everyone could have houses. But UO went way to far offering it to several expansions.
Now this is important, it is coming from a Trammy, Trammel was a huge mistake for UO and eventually led to several bad moves to keep the game afloat.
I know UO was losing people due to PK's, but Trammel was a mistake. The old lands with the original rules should have been the expansion. But rules to control the PK'ing was what was needed, not the seperation of states.
No classic shard will bring UO back to its former glory. The game is too old, the internet has grown too much, other games have come out and gone further than UO.
I wish the old UO I knew were still around and held the same allure it had to me back then, but I am afraid that can never happen. Computers and programming have advanced too much for that to happen. Maybe if a 3d game came out where your actual movements were imitated on the screen (like a Wii type of effect) and several other enhansements were to come out you might get that NEW feel to a game. UO broke the mold and reset it, others have improved on it in some ways. UO has hurt itself in too many ways with some of the changes to ever attract the masses back again.
I was one of the people that may have actually hurt UO with my requests. I was not alone. Pk's griefers, cheaters, bots and others added to the demise of UO.
I know some of you are having a blast in UO still and still love the game. I am not trying to offend you. I am just stating what an explayer feels.
I truely hope UO lives forever.
DENNAR
I have not played UO for a couple of years now. I merely came back to stratics just to peek on whats going on. Many of you dont know me some may remember me. My game name was DENNAR and I played LS. (the name I use here is a long story stemming from the stratics melt down years ago)
I was known as the biggest Trammy there was. I hated PK's and Griefers. I petitioned against cheaters. I left UO when cheaters were constantly being rewarded and PVP was becoming something that was rewarded or was forced on players. I am not here to debate that topic, just giving the basis for my comments.
A classic server does not need all the things that I see in this thread. None of this is what made UO so great back then. Here is a list from a player that hated PvP but appreaciated what it meant.
1. UO was new back then. The whole construct was what made UO great. Build skills to get better. Limited--I repeat--limited rewards. Most players used PLAYER made equipment.
2. There was no power hour. It took months to GM skills--imagine that GM was the highest skill level.
3. EBAY was huge for UO. Where else could you play a game then turn around and sell your efforts and make some real cash. Imagine gold selling for $300 a million? That happened back in 98.
4. People were kind of forced to work together. If you left town--to go to your house you may find PK's waiting for you. People understood that it could happen to everyone. So when someone came into town and asked for help because of PK's several people responded.
5. Housing was so limited you could make a living in real life placing houses in a game.
6. Imagine a server full message for your shard?
I wont go into other details but I was one of the ones yelling for new land masses so everyone could have houses. But UO went way to far offering it to several expansions.
Now this is important, it is coming from a Trammy, Trammel was a huge mistake for UO and eventually led to several bad moves to keep the game afloat.
I know UO was losing people due to PK's, but Trammel was a mistake. The old lands with the original rules should have been the expansion. But rules to control the PK'ing was what was needed, not the seperation of states.
No classic shard will bring UO back to its former glory. The game is too old, the internet has grown too much, other games have come out and gone further than UO.
I wish the old UO I knew were still around and held the same allure it had to me back then, but I am afraid that can never happen. Computers and programming have advanced too much for that to happen. Maybe if a 3d game came out where your actual movements were imitated on the screen (like a Wii type of effect) and several other enhansements were to come out you might get that NEW feel to a game. UO broke the mold and reset it, others have improved on it in some ways. UO has hurt itself in too many ways with some of the changes to ever attract the masses back again.
I was one of the people that may have actually hurt UO with my requests. I was not alone. Pk's griefers, cheaters, bots and others added to the demise of UO.
I know some of you are having a blast in UO still and still love the game. I am not trying to offend you. I am just stating what an explayer feels.
I truely hope UO lives forever.
DENNAR
W
woolygimp
Guest
Dennar, go play a free shard and do some random PvE.
For a 13 year old game, it's odd to note that even the most basic UO PvE on the classic shards is more fun, fast-paced, difficult, and exciting than any PvE in other games.
In WoW, you can run through a camp of 12+ mobs and kill them all in three spells without ever dying, and even if you die you lose nothing.
In classic UO, 7x game characters can die even in places like the orc fort if they aren't careful - I know... I went back and did some PvE in the orc fort with a friend, and we both died several times. And dying means something when you can't always recover your corpse.
I'm sure all of you remember hunting lich lords, taking an unexpected amount of damage, and literally hoping that you wouldn't get flame striked before you could get your heal/bandage off - it was very exciting. And it's not all nostalgia, if you go back and play the free shards you will notice that it's all still there to experience.
Even PvE in classic UO was something special.
For a 13 year old game, it's odd to note that even the most basic UO PvE on the classic shards is more fun, fast-paced, difficult, and exciting than any PvE in other games.
In WoW, you can run through a camp of 12+ mobs and kill them all in three spells without ever dying, and even if you die you lose nothing.
In classic UO, 7x game characters can die even in places like the orc fort if they aren't careful - I know... I went back and did some PvE in the orc fort with a friend, and we both died several times. And dying means something when you can't always recover your corpse.
I'm sure all of you remember hunting lich lords, taking an unexpected amount of damage, and literally hoping that you wouldn't get flame striked before you could get your heal/bandage off - it was very exciting. And it's not all nostalgia, if you go back and play the free shards you will notice that it's all still there to experience.
Even PvE in classic UO was something special.
I edited the quote because it was so long.
I remember you well Dennar, and of course Castle Dennar I still remember and have a rune for on LS!
Even though you were a die hard trammy so to speak, you at least understood UO very well and that is to be respected.
I will have to agree with many points you made, even if I wished they were not true. I was one of those people who made a living off UO, maybe not as much as Mithryl Elves, but working the rares market, and real estate were HUGE back then, me and my fiance both quit our jobs because we made more per hour on UO then working. and I know the odds of that ever happening again are at flat 0%
However that's not what I'm after with a classic shard.
My hope is to bring back as much of the allure as humanly possible before UO goes off into the good night. I've yet to play any other mmo that even offered 10% of the feeling of community and bonding UO once had.
I do hope that in light of how you currently feel, that you still honor us with your ideas on a good balance for issues. That is exactly what's keeping the debate raging on here.
So we're just going to assume that everyone who plays old school UO on a FREEshard is going to PAY to play a classic shard and MAINTAIN their subscription?
A lot might come back, a lot might not. Really, you're only offering speculation. There are a lot of ifs. The point is, not everyone who played back then is going to flock back. Some might have moved on to an other MMO and enjoy it, some might have just stopped playing games, others might just not want to pay or enjoy the freeshard. Looking at the subscription numbers that left when a change happened doesn't mean, MANY years later if the change is reverse, they'll all come back.
You just have to be realistic. This is a great idea, but I don't expect it to dwarf prodo shards as much as you seem to think.
I wish they would give us a target number of accounts they would want to keep the shard up and running.
That would be kinda hard to track, unless they only do new subscriptions as current suscribers might make a char and never play it (to see what it's like) and others might only play it, but have other chars.
Too me, the problem isn't not really how many people are going to join.
The real killer of the Classic shard, imo, is the time it's going to take to make. If it takes too long, they'll scrap it. That's how EA generally works, sadly.
Hopefully it wont take too much time, that's all I ask for, not the flock of 200K subscribers everything seems to think is going to happen once they press the on button...
S
SoulStealer A.O
Guest
Yeah, 200k subs will never happen, no mater what they do. They will never know until it does happen though. Hopefully they just go ahead with it. If it doesn't work out, it doesnt work out. There is only really one way to find out.
L
Longest Journey
Guest
To a degree, it is classic. Statloss was around back then, this is more like an adjustment to an old idea. A classic fix if you would.
I've not gotten involved in this thread, mostly because I'm a trammie, I'd never have started playing the old you want, because fighting other people doesn't appeal to me. I haven't voted the poll, and I haven't joined the debate. But I will say that, in my (possibly irrelevant) opinion. This is the answer to this particular bone of contention. Macroing off counts is probably not what the developers intended people to do when they put statloss in the game. Therefore make it that the timer only runs when the character is alive?
just because you're a trammie doesn't mean you have to stay away from the thread, voting or giving us your opinion, you're a UO player and that's all that matters
Ditto. Join in.
just because you're a trammie doesn't mean you have to stay away from the thread, voting or giving us your opinion, you're a UO player and that's all that matters
Being a Trammie is why I'm here. I'm going to usually be one of those crafting template characters who attracts PKs. I want to see them restrained, if not chained to a post. <g>
The game I still stop into off and on to see whats changed now and then has criminals in stocks by the town square. A GM stops in off and on to ask questions of them to make sure the player is at the keyboard. No reply and the time goes up. No UMing allowed.
I agree... all UO visions can come as one.
I am the only one who is left with the UO "tone" ; obviously because you can all feel the emotion culminating, I won't be speaking in riddles.
Stat loss was never meant to be implemented... it is a very simpleton system that was put into place to offset the "seriousness" of UO and how it became political. I mean really... stat loss ; applied by whom ? God ? We have here an element of religion symbolised in a sandbox where all human minds are innocent until proven guilty ; it takes the power away from the individual. I saw it happen very clearly ; to make it OK to accept real money for UO is each time poisoning a bit the community, without judging here those that at least have the honesty to admit doing so. It's suppose to be a living world, not a game !
Let us speak then about death ; I'm sure everyone will understand this...
Even the best of trammies, they must be able to die or it means absolutely nothing to have accomplished structure, friendship and unconditional love ; and this ties in with the question that left everyone's blood silent and glacial since the day... oh but Avatar... you don't have to die either ! You can res. You did lose cool artifacts (yes server birth too) but... BUT you are still alive until you find the next lesson. But are you yourself ? Will you accept and play another role ? That might be because you consider that it was a fair death... where does your ego stop ?
What is roleplay ?
Being ?
Tell me aha Avatar, for without the medicine I wilth'n'die.
This whole thing is just a distraction... if any trammie is within a community of people that care, you'd be surprised HOW ORGANISED and GENUISFULLY EVIL would a murderer have to be to actually realise the feat of killing and looting them in todays pretty much lag free *AHEM* environement. Especially is the very logical idea of player towns and guards in there. When the deed it is done it will mean SOMETHING for HISTORY... and progeny, for what is a civilisation without remaining witness, common sense ? Who would even have a bit of creativity without caring about the darker side of human species ; why would people HATE so much those who had fun doing it. Those that didn't do it fairly are left with a sour taste in their mouths... so what. they might not do it this time because of the magnitudinal community, at least without playing a role that is and also DYING for GOOD. *key words are highlighted*
When my Brainbug died, he died for good, I killed over 3000 players who gave pvp a shot at me over a summer-fall, not miners, it was in dungeons. I repeat that I have not profited one dime off my bounty that I was at liberty of claiming grace to my friend Nick-of-Time who amongst a throng of at least 50 very angry players ; in a sea of pet caused lag *I know, it sounds crispy* managed... and I highly suspect him of having chugged red pots all the way in at JUST the right timing... EPIC ! To grab my head, yes, my decapitated head, which was worth a good stack of real hard cash. HE was so much of a friend that he handed it to me, this time in an abysmal sea of the most timewarping UO ever experienced, which even included forward in time jump backs. And well... I have never seen him since ; lots of people knew him.
I left UO without any remorse, as a companion, and I return as a companion. Now the situation is so enflamed, that we don't hear anymore about anything remotely close to what UO lore is supposed to be. I am immortal in that sense and also your best friend.
Please forgive my insistant tone but, WHEN DOES IT START ?
I have devised many fair ways of preventing and catalysing the need for macroing in UO without turning it into a game with evil in its center, evil is a parody to learn good ethics ; if you never live to the life of the avatar you'd mean nothing. You'd be empty. There'd be no music !
AND THIS IS WHERE I'M COMING IN HEAVIER !!! AAHRRRGGGHHHH CAPS LOCK !!!
SAMPLES OF MUSIC SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE UPDATED IN THE GAME AFTER COMMUNITY APROVAL IN POLLS SO PEOPLE CAN SOUND HOW THEY WANT FOR CHRISTS SAKES !
THAT IS CLASSIC !!!!! *refer to my post about bard music on the guitar* Do you realise this guy could have his own little guitar loop ?
Do you realise how heavy the conversation is so that noone even comes up with ideas like this ?
This is my last dream that I would like to see come true.
Thank you for the hope alone suffices me.
I feel alive.
I am the only one who is left with the UO "tone" ; obviously because you can all feel the emotion culminating, I won't be speaking in riddles.
Stat loss was never meant to be implemented... it is a very simpleton system that was put into place to offset the "seriousness" of UO and how it became political. I mean really... stat loss ; applied by whom ? God ? We have here an element of religion symbolised in a sandbox where all human minds are innocent until proven guilty ; it takes the power away from the individual. I saw it happen very clearly ; to make it OK to accept real money for UO is each time poisoning a bit the community, without judging here those that at least have the honesty to admit doing so. It's suppose to be a living world, not a game !
Let us speak then about death ; I'm sure everyone will understand this...
Even the best of trammies, they must be able to die or it means absolutely nothing to have accomplished structure, friendship and unconditional love ; and this ties in with the question that left everyone's blood silent and glacial since the day... oh but Avatar... you don't have to die either ! You can res. You did lose cool artifacts (yes server birth too) but... BUT you are still alive until you find the next lesson. But are you yourself ? Will you accept and play another role ? That might be because you consider that it was a fair death... where does your ego stop ?
What is roleplay ?
Being ?
Tell me aha Avatar, for without the medicine I wilth'n'die.
This whole thing is just a distraction... if any trammie is within a community of people that care, you'd be surprised HOW ORGANISED and GENUISFULLY EVIL would a murderer have to be to actually realise the feat of killing and looting them in todays pretty much lag free *AHEM* environement. Especially is the very logical idea of player towns and guards in there. When the deed it is done it will mean SOMETHING for HISTORY... and progeny, for what is a civilisation without remaining witness, common sense ? Who would even have a bit of creativity without caring about the darker side of human species ; why would people HATE so much those who had fun doing it. Those that didn't do it fairly are left with a sour taste in their mouths... so what. they might not do it this time because of the magnitudinal community, at least without playing a role that is and also DYING for GOOD. *key words are highlighted*
When my Brainbug died, he died for good, I killed over 3000 players who gave pvp a shot at me over a summer-fall, not miners, it was in dungeons. I repeat that I have not profited one dime off my bounty that I was at liberty of claiming grace to my friend Nick-of-Time who amongst a throng of at least 50 very angry players ; in a sea of pet caused lag *I know, it sounds crispy* managed... and I highly suspect him of having chugged red pots all the way in at JUST the right timing... EPIC ! To grab my head, yes, my decapitated head, which was worth a good stack of real hard cash. HE was so much of a friend that he handed it to me, this time in an abysmal sea of the most timewarping UO ever experienced, which even included forward in time jump backs. And well... I have never seen him since ; lots of people knew him.
I left UO without any remorse, as a companion, and I return as a companion. Now the situation is so enflamed, that we don't hear anymore about anything remotely close to what UO lore is supposed to be. I am immortal in that sense and also your best friend.
Please forgive my insistant tone but, WHEN DOES IT START ?
I have devised many fair ways of preventing and catalysing the need for macroing in UO without turning it into a game with evil in its center, evil is a parody to learn good ethics ; if you never live to the life of the avatar you'd mean nothing. You'd be empty. There'd be no music !
AND THIS IS WHERE I'M COMING IN HEAVIER !!! AAHRRRGGGHHHH CAPS LOCK !!!
SAMPLES OF MUSIC SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE UPDATED IN THE GAME AFTER COMMUNITY APROVAL IN POLLS SO PEOPLE CAN SOUND HOW THEY WANT FOR CHRISTS SAKES !
THAT IS CLASSIC !!!!! *refer to my post about bard music on the guitar* Do you realise this guy could have his own little guitar loop ?
Do you realise how heavy the conversation is so that noone even comes up with ideas like this ?
This is my last dream that I would like to see come true.
Thank you for the hope alone suffices me.
I feel alive.
No, my uo vision doesn't belong on here. If you really want to read it, it's here: http://petraoffduty.blogspot.com/
O
Ozzie
Guest
Someone just needs to take all the ideas and principles from old school UO and put it into an updated (visually) game. Creating a classic shard is not going to attract new members, it will just attract the old ones. UO had some seriously good principles and ideas that are not matched in any of the latest generation of mmorpgs. The graphic designers completely f'd up the "3d" UO and it would be really good to see someone do a proper job whilst keeping the old school gameplay and rules.
There are those in this thread that would disagree with you, to the point where *THEIR* opinion is the only one that matters, right down to what defines *CLASSIC*.just because you're a trammie doesn't mean you have to stay away from the thread, voting or giving us your opinion, you're a UO player and that's all that matters
My participation in this matter is done - after seeing what was posted in the sticky as the *DECIDED* version, even though there are points that are not only NOT decided, but with a majority of people disagreeing with certain points, it's obvious that certain voices are more important than others.
Again, let me state that I truly hope that a classic server comes to pass. But let me temper that with saying I hope it isn't the final nail in the UO coffin, too. I've got no dog in this race - it's something that I'd enjoy as a change of pace, but not necessarily as a way of life. There's just too many things about the current UO that I enjoy as is. Things that *STILL* make it unique from any other MMO.
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tenduil
Guest
The 'adjustment' you are talking about is to impose stat loss upon death which is a large mechanics change to how UO was. Additionally there are so many secondary issues with this starting with blue pk's. Why would a person not just PK >4 people then while alive macro off the time? Someone suggesting a running long term count but what then? When they turn red and then eventually die they still incur stat loss?
Why would a player make a PK character then when they know the time and effort put into it will be wasted the first time they die as a red?
This is EXACTLY the sort of thought process that led to Trammel.
I'm sorry but appreciate and understand the concern about PK's but I do not feel it should be addressed in this way. Furthermore I personally don't believe it is that large of a problem. Maybe some shards had a larger issue or perhaps some of you just went to the wrong places, or just straight out sucked when somebody decided to attack you. I don't know.
What I DO KNOW is that on Catskills we didn't really have a problem. PK's existed but it wasn't that you could not play the game by any means.
Having players that 'morally' did not follow the crowd was part of UO and was one of the reasons that the game was different and great. The game had a built in risk/reward system that benefited/hurt everyone. Red's COULD have stat loss if they resurrected while red or they could waste time getting the murder counts off. Conversely they COULD potentially gain lots of items/gold by successfully murdering players. Blue players could do what ever they wanted BUT needed to understand as soon as you left town you could lose everything on you. That was the game.
Excessively punishing one group of players over another is not the answer.
Again the overwhelming majority of votes and feedback from players is that they want a T2A shard. A T2A shard had red's, had stat loss UPON resurrection and was a kick butt game.
Being a trammie is irrelevant, The whole focus of this was to form a consensus for a classic shard that will allow all playstyles under one roof while at the same time remembering the mistakes OSI made, and improving on that 10 years later. Early in this thread there were a few of us throwing out ideas on how to make the shard playable for all playstyles while at the same time keeping within the dangerous spirit of t2a UO. Since then Im afraid that without the PvMer's/crafters input the Ideas have become just a copy of free for all PvP t2a, Fail IMHO.
Too many ideas in this thread are based around a PvPer's perspective, A classic shard can not be balanced without Ideas from a PvMers/crafters perspective being included. I play a Classic UO that is based on t2a ruleset with the best features from current UO that dont deviate from the Classic t2a feel, there are no repercussions for being a PK, Its also one of the most popular and populated PRS servers out there, Its geared towards PvP but at the end of the day the PvMers and Crafters are the backbone of that shard.
Again. My vision does not belong in this thread. I have no desire to play on a 'classic' shard. On the other hand, nor am I against it, for those who want it. I want to go forward, not backwards. I now retire to my normal 'observing only' role in this thread.
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Trebr Drab
Guest
Yeah, you need the wide variety of player styles to make it a great game. Your private shard sounds like it's got mostly mature gamers. Unfortunately UO was overrun with immature gamers. I think any full scale massive game would be, they always have been, if PKing was wide open.
Why would a player make a non-PK character then when they know the time and effort put into playing will be wasted nearly every time they die due to a red?
This is EXACTLY the sort of thought process that led to Trammel.
PKers preyed on non-PKers to the point the non-PKers were not able to have fun playing the game, so the non-PKers were closing their accounts. Why pay to play a game when you are not having fun? To stop paying customers from leaving, EA made Trammel.
The PKers pre-UO:Ren ruined the game by making Tram nessasary.
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tenduil
Guest
If they were dying that much perhaps the problem wasn't with the PK's?
Why was UO rated a top game in 1999 then? Right in the middle of T2A? Were players leaving enmass because of PK's? Have a reference to show that?
Ya know. This all doesn't matter anyway. Until a Dev gives us an answer, Yay or Nay, this is just all of us talking for no purpose.
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Trebr Drab
Guest
Yes. Raph Koster commented once that UO had lost in the 6 figures because of PKing. That's a lot of players to lose just to make a free for all for one subset of gamers.
Sanctioned PvP doesn't seem to be enough for PKers. Guild wars, factions, whatever, they'd rather gank anyone they can find. Driving others to quit the game. So if you still want open PvP, you need to make it much less wide open.
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Trebr Drab
Guest
Blame the victims? They were often skilled for trade skills, like minors. Or hurting from damage from monsters when attacked. Or outnumbered 3 to 1. Hell, I remember the time when you walked into a dungeon, you had to wait about 30 seconds to load the new server, and in the meantime someone had cast a firewall on you because they saw you right away, and you were dead. That was like a 0 on 1 attack, heh. That's why today you can't cast such spells inside dungeon entrances.
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tenduil
Guest
Thank you for the reference. That is alot of people. What you have though is a significant number of players (many of which do not currently pay EA and would) that want a T2A shard with this 'open' PvP that many of you are against.
So why not just do it?
Sort of. The victims knew the risks when they went out of town. Inputting new rules/restrictions and making the game different is not what most of the people want. Also PKing happens. That was part of life in UO. If I wanted to never worry about dying and go mine something I would play on a Trammel shard or go play WoW.
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Trebr Drab
Guest
The penalty was stat loss if you res'd while red. So if the timer only works while alive, they'd have to res and take the stat loss. This would work the same as with stat loss at death. So, either way, I guess.
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