Classic shard.

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Making the most amount of players happy is key yet I want to stay away from a slippery slope issue. Making players 'happy' resulted in UO's downfall.

That's the point of the debate...so that the devs can see what the majority of the people want in a Classic Shard.

For the record, I would play on a pure T2A shard. I would love every minute of it, until they shut it down a year later because there was no one playing on it due to rampant PKing.

Look at Fel on any shard. Look at Siege. And yes, I am aware that those shards all have AoS on them...but Siege and Fel were pretty empty before AoS too.

Some people believe that any Classic Shard has to be an exact copy of what already was. I admire their commitment to the past, I just think they are not being realistic about the survivability of a shard like that in this day and age where players can just log off, and log on to a Tram shard.

 

[Tanivar]

I would play a fel ruleset shard that has no AoS, and has real restraints on PKing.

If I can't enjoy playing on the Classic Shard due to excessive PKing, then I would leave the shard. I will pay a monthly fee to have fun. I will not pay a monthly fee to be fun for others to the point I'm not having fun myself.

 

[Longest Journey]

Yes to custom housing.

No to custom housing. Just because you found 3 houses doesnt mean the majority arent either empty plots or complete eyesores. For every 1 house that looks half way presentable, there are 10 that are complete wrecks.

Also, again, turret houses would be dominant on a classic server.

Thirdly, there isnt a ton of space available for all of those special sized custom plots. They eat up too much space. Things worked in the old days because the majority of players could only afford small single room huts. With the relatively cheap prices of the custom plots, the land would get eaten up twice as fast.

So, no custom houses. They dont fit in a classic server setting.

 

[Longest Journey]

That's the point of the debate...so that the devs can see what the majority of the people want in a Classic Shard.

For the record, I would play on a pure T2A shard. I would love every minute of it, until they shut it down a year later because there was no one playing on it due to rampant PKing.

Its comments like that which make me doubt you played classic UO. Seriously, I was only PK'd a grand total of 15 times across 15 characters on 3 different servers, not counting the times I died fighting in a war with an enemy guild, died due to moments of carelessness, or getting killed by a monster.

Second of all, the majority does want The Second Age. And if people are willing to go back to an era that was "Plagued with rampant PK uber dominance", then things musnt have been all that bad.

So, its pretty safe to say that, given the evidence, Second Age classic servers would last for much more than a year.

Look at Fel on any shard. Look at Siege. And yes, I am aware that those shards all have AoS on them...but Siege and Fel were pretty empty before AoS too.

Felucca became less populated because A.) people wanted to place a larger house, B.) Trammel was easy mode kiddie play with zero risk, and C.) a lot of people who were unhappy about trammel left the game.

Seige was always a ghost town. Not because of the open PvP, but because of the ridiculous rule sets. You couldnt even sell to NPC vendors in town to make money unless you were lord or lady.

Some people believe that any Classic Shard has to be an exact copy of what already was. I admire their commitment to the past, I just think they are not being realistic about the survivability of a shard like that in this day and age where players can just log off, and log on to a Tram shard.

You say this despite the fact that people have been saying they want a Second Age server since the launch of Trammel. I think youre not being realistic, or youre not paying attention.

Also, the people calling for classic second age servers have played trammel and it is trammel that makes them want for classic servers. So why would they go back to something they hate when what they have been wanting for is readily available to them?

If there are any servers that would be shut down a year after the launch of classic servers, its going to be the post AOS servers.

 

[Konge]

I'm actually liking what I'm seeing in this thread. I, originally, thought that the devs would be wasting their time on making this shard.

Not because I didn't want to be apart of it, but because of all the time and resources they'd have to do without a garante of a payout for it. I've wanted a classic shard for a while now. I started around SE, and I enjoyed the game, I still enjoy it, however, I've always been highly interested in a classic shard. I played some free shards using the rule set and loved it.

But now I'm starting to believe this is more viable. I can see both sides of the fence... I don't know, maybe instead of them releasing an expansion next year, or in the next few years, they take a lil' bit longer, split their resources to making a classic shard and the next expansion. I dunno.

Either way, I still want this to come to fruition.

 

[Konge]

If there are any servers that would be shut down a year after the launch of classic servers, its going to be the post AOS servers.

I will point out just one thing here. Just because there's a classic shard, or shards. Doesn't mean the people who prefer post AOS play are going to leave. There's no real evidence that says a classic shard will be more popular than prodo. Besides. I doubt EA will close down even one server.

 

[Hunters' Moon]

*Tags to last*


I have been daydreaming about playing on a classic fel-only server and I'll tell yah,I really hope this happens. I can see it now. I'll have a small workshop north of the Brit mountains where I do my mining and blacksmithing. While stealthed of course. I will not be an easy mark . Then I'll head over to the forge in Brit on the way to the graveyard to do repairs and making decent/good armor for others. Oh yeah,just like old times. It would be awsome.

 

[Kaleb]

No to custom housing. Just because you found 3 houses doesnt mean the majority arent either empty plots or complete eyesores. For every 1 house that looks half way presentable, there are 10 that are complete wrecks.

Also, again, turret houses would be dominant on a classic server.

Thirdly, there isnt a ton of space available for all of those special sized custom plots. They eat up too much space. Things worked in the old days because the majority of players could only afford small single room huts. With the relatively cheap prices of the custom plots, the land would get eaten up twice as fast.

So, no custom houses. They dont fit in a classic server setting.

LOL. ur so clueless its funny, I play a shard with a T2A ruleset that has custom housing, what you describe is the furthest from the truth. you have zero clue what would happen with custom housing under the t2A ruleset, Where I IDOC everyday, Faction, And kill the Order People on a daily basis, I play "classic" UO with Custom housing and it works. House PvP (if thats what you want to call it), hardly exists on the shard I play. Custom housing was the single best system added to the game since 2k. Besides turreting is illegal on EA shards, so if it for some reason when all the planets and stars align and some moron wants to try it simply page and he will have a break for 24hrs. come to think of it, it hardly happens on EA shards.

As long as there is no private housing, and all houses are grandfathered(need to be refreshed (x)days) space would not be that big of a deal.

 

[Kaleb]

I will point out just one thing here. Just because there's a classic shard, or shards. Doesn't mean the people who prefer post AOS play are going to leave. There's no real evidence that says a classic shard will be more popular than prodo. Besides. I doubt EA will close down even one server.

All you have to do is look at past numbers, UO sub numbers rose up until shortly after AOS and been falling since. Every sub spike UO has ever had has to do with expansions that offered new lands for houses, where existing players would open another account just to place in the new lands. Granted there are thousands that started UO after the AOS system was put in and they like it with nothing to compare it to, but there are alot more that played the systems Prior that are now on other MMO's, Freeshards, or on current shards that liked that system better.

 

[Lord Chaos]

One thing that hasn't been discussed...what about UOA and UOC/UOAM?

 

[Tanivar]

One thing that hasn't been discussed...what about UOA and UOC/UOAM?

I'd like to see UOA available because it's a real benefit for crafting. It also saves a ton of mousing and button pushing which irritates my hands.

 

[dum3886]

I believe Oceania is as close enough to proof that they won't shut down a server as long as UO is alive.

If there a way to gamble the odds. I would be happy to bet there is not even 1% of the current subscriber population plays Oceania. And by playing i mean more than once a month or for a trip for trading etc... actually 1% is a bit generous i think a reasonable bet would be about .25%.

1% my odds would be 1:1.00001 lol

 

[Tanivar]

We need to stop feeding the Trolls People. Let's get back to working on the Classic Shard idea. The faster we get the Classic Shard idea finished, the faster we can be rid of them.

Let's stay focused and not let the tail twisters distract us.

 

[Longest Journey]

LOL. ur so clueless its funny, I play a shard with a T2A ruleset that has custom housing, what you describe is the furthest from the truth. you have zero clue what would happen with custom housing under the t2A ruleset, Where I IDOC everyday, Faction, And kill the Order People on a daily basis, I play "classic" UO with Custom housing and it works. House PvP (if thats what you want to call it), hardly exists on the shard I play. Custom housing was the single best system added to the game since 2k. Besides turreting is illegal on EA shards, so if it for some reason when all the planets and stars align and some moron wants to try it simply page and he will have a break for 24hrs. come to think of it, it hardly happens on EA shards.

Okay, you clearly have no idea what I was referring to with house PKs or Turret houses. A turret house is a house thats first level has no walls but a means to block off front steps so no one can get in. The people inside are completely safe while the people outside cant shoot back because the roof of the house blockes them from engaging their attackers. Youre going to see tons of these houses cropping up.

Also, the reson it hardly happens on the EA servers, is because barely anyone plays the EA servers.

Third of all, you play on a free server. Free servers arent the same as a production server of EA/Mythic. Your server was put together by some guy and what HE thought a classic server should be like.

Even then, youve obviously never been around the Yew or Brit moongates on Felucca. House PKs constantly lure people back to their houses and have the people inside open fire on them as soon as they get in range.

As long as there is no private housing, and all houses are grandfathered(need to be refreshed (x)days) space would not be that big of a deal.

You clearly never played when the UO Housing guild was around, did you? People would have friends keep their houses refreshed for them. If you played on a T2A server, you'd know that.

Playing on some free sever that claims its like T2A is nothing compared to having played the actual Second Age, which you never did.

Custom houses eat up too much land and are exploits waiting to happen. Not to mention most of them end up being freaking eye sores with the word penis or ass spelled out in tiles on the roof because some immature little freak thinks its funny. True, there may be a SELECT FEW HOUSES that look good, but the rest will either be empty lots with some chests secured in the middle, or be frankenhouses.

 

[Longest Journey]

I will point out just one thing here. Just because there's a classic shard, or shards. Doesn't mean the people who prefer post AOS play are going to leave. There's no real evidence that says a classic shard will be more popular than prodo. Besides. I doubt EA will close down even one server.

Oh, they will. If classic servers get put in, the AOS ones are doomed.

See, given the evidence provided by the past several years, its easy to prove that the AOS content is very unpopular thanks to the plummeting sub numbers after AOS. Couple that with how many former UO players out there in MMO land have said they would gladly leave their current MMOs and come back to UO if classic server were made and youve got a recipie for success of the classic servers.

With the success of the classic servers, the developers are going to want to put more time, money, man power and resources into them. But where are they going to get all of this? Answer: By cutting off the dead weight that is the horribly under populated AOS servers. Why keep putting money into something barely anyone plays?

 

[Kaleb]

Okay, you clearly have no idea what I was referring to with house PKs or Turret houses. A turret house is a house thats first level has no walls but a means to block off front steps so no one can get in. The people inside are completely safe while the people outside cant shoot back because the roof of the house blockes them from engaging their attackers. Youre going to see tons of these houses cropping up.

Also, the reson it hardly happens on the EA servers, is because barely anyone plays the EA servers.

Third of all, you play on a free server. Free servers arent the same as a production server of EA/Mythic. Your server was put together by some guy and what HE thought a classic server should be like.

Even then, youve obviously never been around the Yew or Brit moongates on Felucca. House PKs constantly lure people back to their houses and have the people inside open fire on them as soon as they get in range.



You clearly never played when the UO Housing guild was around, did you? People would have friends keep their houses refreshed for them. If you played on a T2A server, you'd know that.

nope guess not, I have no clue about t2a,

 

[Lord Chaos]

One thing that hasn't been discussed...what about UOA and UOC/UOAM?

I'd like to see UOA available because it's a real benefit for crafting. It also saves a ton of mousing and button pushing which irritates my hands.

Yeah, but devs would need to make new classic shard versions of these programs though, so hope the creator of UOA/UOC is ok with it.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

I hope I made myself clear here... it needs to be a completely different software environement to allow non intrusive cracking control.

I say it needs. All information server side as well...



I have a way to do this... why can't I just... say it ?

Noone wants crackers on his server.

Not ONE.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Noone wants crackers on his server.

Not ONE.

Polly does.

 

[Unsatisfied]

I hope I made myself clear here... it needs to be a completely different software environement to allow non intrusive cracking control.

I say it needs. All information server side as well...



I have a way to do this... why can't I just... say it ?

Noone wants crackers on his server.

Not ONE.

Huh?

 

[tenduil]

Were nit-picking details when we still don't have anything truly from the dev team yet.

We don't have to have this thing 100% figured out for the dev team to give a:

YEA

or

NAY

So I want to bring up the previous discussion that until a dev can actually weigh in this entire discussion thread is moot.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

So I want to bring up the previous discussion that until a dev can actually weigh in this entire discussion thread is moot.

Nobody has a gun at your head

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

Its comments like that which make me doubt you played classic UO. Seriously, I was only PK'd a grand total of 15 times across 15 characters on 3 different servers, not counting the times I died fighting in a war with an enemy guild, died due to moments of carelessness, or getting killed by a monster.

Second of all, the majority does want The Second Age. And if people are willing to go back to an era that was "Plagued with rampant PK uber dominance", then things musnt have been all that bad.

So, its pretty safe to say that, given the evidence, Second Age classic servers would last for much more than a year.

If Morgana was actually in Protectors of Virtue she played classic UO end of debate. PK'ing was rampant, I know because I used to do it, a lot and I ran with a large group of friends who often joined me.

Now I was not even a big name on my shard, I mostly picked off easy targets for the loot like miners for example, or dungeon runners. Not that I couldn't hold my own against other skilled players, just they were easier targets of opportunity.

The people who have shown support for this idea, outside of our little group here in the thread have said they might give it a try if something was done to curtail the pk problem, go to any free shard based around T2A and you will almost always see the exact same thing, pks run wild and pwn everyones face off.

Why? because it's just to damn easy to be a pk, it always was easy, except during stat loss, but even that was a few days of ghost macroing for most people.

You say this despite the fact that people have been saying they want a Second Age server since the launch of Trammel. I think youre not being realistic, or youre not paying attention.

Also, the people calling for classic second age servers have played trammel and it is trammel that makes them want for classic servers. So why would they go back to something they hate when what they have been wanting for is readily available to them?

If there are any servers that would be shut down a year after the launch of classic servers, its going to be the post AOS servers.

Well the majority of people again, have been saying they want anything pre AOS, you are playing fast and loose with the facts and it's showing. The numbers show that subs spiked after the release of trammel, and even though I hate that it happened, you can't argue with it, it is reality.

It wasn't until AOS came along that sub numbers really started to tank, so lets at least all be clear about that. We have already agreed to do stat loss on death, and hopefully that will be enough, but if it isn't and we face a low server population over the same old same old, many of us have already discussed further measures that can be implemented.

To me it isn't about punishing pks, it's about making the fact that you are a murderer carry some real weight, in the same way that those "sheep" carry the weight of losing everything they have on them when they are killed and looted, when the risk and reward is balanced on both sides you will see a decline in the number of griefers, it simply doesn't become as profitable when you face real punishments for your crimes.

 

[tenduil]

Why? because it's just to damn easy to be a pk, it always was easy, except during stat loss, but even that was a few days of ghost macroing for most people.

To me it isn't about punishing pks, it's about making the fact that you are a murderer carry some real weight, in the same way that those "sheep" carry the weight of losing everything they have on them when they are killed and looted, when the risk and reward is balanced on both sides you will see a decline in the number of griefers, it simply doesn't become as profitable when you face real punishments for your crimes.

The 'real weight' should be the stat loss (if rezzed). Yes it can be macroed off but that's time a person can not play that character. PKing is part of the game.
http://www.villagevoice.com/2000-02-08/news/bloody-ethics/1

Personally I miss my Dread Lord title from before T2A and the fact that as a Evil Lord (mid way through) you could still go into town and talk to the bank.

 

[Kristeen]

No, no ClasSic Shard until Sammy Hagar becomes president, and Cabo Wabo flows freely into the Sea of Lost Souls where the sea serpents are neon green and yield blue ancient SOSs every time.

 

[Unsatisfied]

The 'real weight' should be the stat loss (if rezzed). Yes it can be macroed off but that's time a person can not play that character. PKing is part of the game.
http://www.villagevoice.com/2000-02-08/news/bloody-ethics/1

Personally I miss my Dread Lord title from before T2A and the fact that as a Evil Lord (mid way through) you could still go into town and talk to the bank.

Exactly, pk stat loss is punishment...

One question directed at the crowd who want jail time for pks if caught... I read a lot of people saying "real jail time" for pks... Whats the difference between having to stay a ghost to macro off counts to avoid stat loss and sitting in jail for some time when caught? Both involve you macroing off time and not being able to play that character, so whats the difference? Other than this jail time thing requiring a new set of rules that wernt in classic uo anyway?

No, no ClasSic Shard until Sammy Hagar becomes president, and Cabo Wabo flows freely into the Sea of Lost Souls where the sea serpents are neon green and yield blue ancient SOSs every time.

Oh wow please no... not the beating the dead horse icon again :/

 

[tenduil]

Exactly, pk stat loss is punishment...

One question directed at the crowd who want jail time for pks if caught... I read a lot of people saying "real jail time" for pks... Whats the difference between having to stay a ghost to macro off counts to avoid stat loss and sitting in jail for some time when caught? Both involve you macroing off time and not being able to play that character, so whats the difference? Other than this jail time thing requiring a new set of rules that wernt in classic uo anyway?

<--- not a programmer: Wouldn't a jail time concept require more work from EA staff or could it be automatic?

Either way I don't believe its appropriate. Would you get jailed regardless if you died? ie: Right after you PK somebody? or just after you eventually die?

If your still alive and get jailed I believe that's wrong. That is what guard zones are for. Jailed after PKing ruins a large part of the game... because yes PKing is a large part of the game.
Jailed when your dead? Why. The character is already out of the game till he can macro off the stat loss why put an extra mechanism in place to address what is pretty much already addressed.

The stat loss part of PKing is IMHO the best developer side factor to address PKing. The real difference comes on the PLAYER side: How does the community react to a over abundance of PK's. UO is a community game or at least T2A was and therefore in-game player on player interactions should be handled by the players.
I do not believe PK's would run rampant and force players to leave. This was not an issue on catskills when I played, this is not an issue on the freeshard I currently play on and I do not foresee this being a game ender.

 

[Unsatisfied]

Pretty much exactly the way I see it... :/

 

[Unsatisfied]

You know something funny I've noticed... This is actually kinda a reply to some of the things strongly mentioned on another one of the classic shard threads but I'm replying with it here to keep the whole "one thread keep it tidy" idea going....

In one breath people who are against the classic server idea are saying "please dont spend resources on a classic shard, it wont have the support and it will fail and be a waste of resources" But then in the very next breath they are saying "A classic shard will take so many people off of the current production shards that it will force them to become a ghost town and make people quit due to this"

All I can really gather from this is that they are all afraid of the later of the two breaths... But IF this is the case then obviously its what the majority want to do, play the classic rule set... So who's place is it to tell them they cannot have it because it will damage/destroy the other style of UO that in this case the minority want to play? Isnt that what adding all these things did to the game classic lovers wanted in the first place? About time classic UO lovers get a little back.

Apologies if my original point turned to a rant at the end, I kinda just got myself on a babbling roll.

 

[Llewen]

In one breath people who are against the classic server idea are saying "please dont spend resources on a classic shard, it wont have the support and it will fail and be a waste of resources" But then in the very next breath they are saying "A classic shard will take so many people off of the current production shards that it will force them to become a ghost town and make people quit due to this"

All I can really gather from this is that they are all afraid of the later of the two breaths... But IF this is the case then obviously its what the majority want to do, play the classic rule set... So who's place is it to tell them they cannot have it because it will damage/destroy the other style of UO that in this case the minority want to play? Isnt that what adding all these things did to the game classic lovers wanted in the first place? About time classic UO lovers get a little back.

A classic shard may do well, and probably will at first, but I don't think anyone has to worry about a classic shard sounding the death knell of what UO has become. I think most people who check out both games will see that the UO that we know now is a much more advanced, and interesting game than the UO we knew ten years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I think Trammel and item insurance were both poor design decisions, but I understand why they were made, and there is no going back on the regular shards. And a classic shard will never replace the regular shards, and those who play a classic shard will always represent a small percentage of the total player population, even if a single classic shard might actually have a healthier population density than most of the regular shards, and very likely will when it starts up.

 

[dum3886]

1 or 2 or if we r lucky 3 extra healthy servers isn't something to take lightly especially seeing im sure a lot of the people who would play a classic shard are diehard fans of it, so they probably won't be quitting anytime soon.

UO needs all the help it can get subscription wise... Can anyone honestly not see that UO as it is... is dying? They have tried everything already, these additions are exciting for ohh about a month or 2 but then everyone is bored again and then the population begins to shrink again. The Classic shard has something about it that people seem to enjoy and not want to leave/quit or for some reason they dun get bored off.. thus in a sense a permanent population.

A Classic shard will please all the older school players and will help keep UO alive a bit longer... helps everyone.

 

[Trebr Drab]

If they installed a "jail" sort of a system, I would hope that it required players to capture the PKers and thieves in some manner. Not just death by NPCs, except in the case of city guards, pets, or hirelings (if they ever make them worthwhile).

To make a classic shard with the old rules, no working justice system, would probably attract a few thousand PvPers, many of which would eventually give up due to realizing they aren't all they thought they were. This is what always happens on wide open PvP and loot games or servers. UO needs more than that. They need 100's of thousands of new players. That's what I think they'd get with a "classic based" shard(s) that have a working justice system. There are millions of gamers out there looking for something like that. They're tired of the static game play and directional control of games like WoW. They want something more realistic feeling, more social, more self directed. But they don't want rampant PKing where they feel like they're nothing more than dog food for PKers.

UO could attract a good percentage of those millions, if they go about it right. They need to go back to their roots of "worldly", add justice that works, and fix up the clients. Then they also need to add to the "worldly" by enhancing that with better farming and needs for foods, better fishing and boats and seas and sea battles and sea exploration (yes, expand the map in the seas), city building and all political aspects and all the artistic through trade skills, etc.

There is so much UO could do. But it all starts with a classic based server with Justice.

 

[theoldclint]

haven't played on the official shards since '02, but I would most definitely come back for a true T2A shard. better late than never.

 

[SoulStealer A.O]

I'm sorry but PK statloss is one thing, jail time is another. Pking was a part of UO back then and it added to the risk of leaving town. It's part of the era lets stop trying to eliminate it totally. The real beauty about old school UO is it was a real sandbox where you can do whatever you want. Jail time prevents you from playing the game, and that isnt right, unless you are cheating.

Also, I'm all for UOA. All new MMO's have what UOA is to UO built into their system and it's a good tool.

 

[Llewen]

They want something more realistic feeling, more social, more self directed. But they don't want rampant PKing where they feel like they're nothing more than dog food for PKers.

The first thing they need to do is slay the cheating monster, or at least subdue it. Honest players have always been food for the cheaters in UO, because there have never been consistent consequences for cheating, and for most forms of cheating no consequences whatsoever.

And I'm not talking about speed hacking here. I'm talking about the use of scripts, all kinds of scripts and unattended game play. Honest players can't compete economically because they can't compete with the scripters for resources, and even if they can compete economically, they can't compete in pvp because of the use of scripts in pvp.

The cheating monster needs to be dealt with in regular UO, but in a full loot, wide open pvp environment, it is even more important. And I've said this before, cheating is one of the major reasons we ended up with Trammel and insurance in the first place. It's no fun having to re-equip at the best of times, but it is game breaking when you have to constantly do so because you are losing to cheaters.

 

[Babble]

What makes you think EA will combat cheating when they neglected to do so most of the time of the last 12 years?

For the classic shard - anyone knows if pre Pub 16 still had the skillpool idea for gaining skills?
Also would vendors buy unlimited or only have as much gold as people bought of them?

I would go with vendors which like on siege don't buy anything, but you can put it on the npc vendors for players to buy them. So newbies can make money if players buy the items from those vendors. (Works on a player run shard)

Maybe to fight macro programs go for a captcha program for mining/Lumberjacking, though I would prefer that from time to time an ore elemetal might attack or a tree nymphe defend its tree to fight off scripters?

 

[Llewen]

What makes you think EA will combat cheating when they neglected to do so most of the time of the last 12 years?

Maybe to fight macro programs go for a captcha program for mining/Lumberjacking, though I would prefer that from time to time an ore elemetal might attack or a tree nymphe defend its tree to fight off scripters?

Times are changing. Third party cheat detection is in the works, and we aren't going to be told when it is implemented according to Cal. So my advice is if you are using that crap, now is the time to learn how to play without it.

Elementals and nymphs are good ideas, but they don't go far enough. Not when you can gear your character, and use scripts for defence that will ensure that it won't have any problems with either nymphs or ore elementals.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I'm sorry but PK statloss is one thing, jail time is another. Pking was a part of UO back then and it added to the risk of leaving town. It's part of the era lets stop trying to eliminate it totally. The real beauty about old school UO is it was a real sandbox where you can do whatever you want. Jail time prevents you from playing the game, and that isnt right, unless you are cheating.

Ok...

I am going to step in and play ref here:

First of all...no one is asking for anything that wasn't, at some point, a part of the game. The ONLY THING that anyone has suggest that should be included at the launch of the shard, is that stat loss should occur on death, not ressurrection.

However...it was more or less agreed upon early on that IF the measures that were in game during T2A, WITH stat loss on death, does NOT stop rampant PKing...THEN other ideas, like jail, could be considered.

Does everyone here understand that??

Second...no one is asking to 'eliminate PKing totally'. That is what we have with Trammel, and I don't believe there are more than a couple of posters that have even suggested that.

Don't derail this idea with exaggerations and misinformation.

The idea is to create a T2A era shard, with all of the necessary bug fixes, a few non-game breaking updates (like stat/skill locks), and try to ensure that it does not fail within one year.

What good is having a Classic Shard if they within the first year they have to put Trammel into it, or they have to close it down???

For those that are looking for an EXACT copy of T2A, there is a free shard out there right now that is offering that to a fault. If you go and try that free shard, you will understand exactly why I, and others, are calling for some measures to curtail the rampant PKing. If you don't believe me, go and try it.

@ Longest Journey:

It does no one any good, especially yourself, if you are just going to resort to mindless personal attacks whenever anyone disagrees with your position. Please go back and re-read the first few pages of posts, and you will see that the the theme of this thread...and the ONLY THING that has allowed it to remain unlocked...is the fact that we all agreed to keep juvenile insults and personal attacks OUT of the thread. When you accuse someone like me, a 13 year veteran of UO that started in the beta, of lying about playing in the old days, it makes you look like a complete and utter jackass. Everyone else in this thread has been willing to COMPROMISE on things...what makes you think that you can charge into the discussion...late...and force your will upon everyone that is involved in it?

This idea of a Classic Shard is a ONE SHOT DEAL. Everyone here needs to understand that. If the shard does happen, and there are no measures to make sure that it can survive, then we will never get another chance.

Or is that your real agenda? To derail the discussions, to throw out opinions that will inflame the community, and to eventually cause the shard to fail? If that IS your agenda...then please take it somewhere else. We don't need that here.

 

[Babble]

Cheat detection is only so much worth as much the company stands behind their rules.
And EA has a bad track record with UO - not sure about their other games though.

Speedhack should be impossible for years - if there is a serverlimit.
The macro program could be detected with some heuristic checking of player movements and gms. Some costs money and that is why they did not enforce it.

 

[tenduil]

Ok...

I am going to step in and play ref here:

First of all...no one is asking for anything that wasn't, at some point, a part of the game. The ONLY THING that anyone has suggest that should be included at the launch of the shard, is that stat loss should occur on death, not ressurrection.

However...it was more or less agreed upon early on that IF the measures that were in game during T2A, WITH stat loss on death, does NOT stop rampant PKing...THEN other ideas, like jail, could be considered.

Whoa Whoa.... stat loss upon death? Thats not correct. Its upon resurrection and many would view stat loss upon death as too extreme and would most likely just encourage blue PK's rather than devoted Reds.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

I agree this wouldn't be classic...

I was the most deadly PK on atlantic before trammel... and there is no way in heaven I would have macroed my stat loss out of my character... after 3000 reports it would have taken something like 1000 hours or what ?

I don't recall the details... but if you aren't a coward that only kills people when he knows he'll turn blue again, there is no way the CLASSIC penalty dosen't dissuade. Besides I tought it was logical my deductions about less pks , because more mature players and lalala... start classic and THEN change.. NO ? sounds strange...

Of course macroing shouldn't be allowed for the counts, I think its pretty easy to enforce that if they're serious about giving us a nice shard... they just need to purchase my AI code, and the machine will detect all macroers without any loss of computing power. Of course a slight modification to the client is necessary, but it dosen't violate their cherished privacy policy.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Whoa Whoa.... stat loss upon death? Thats not correct. Its upon resurrection and many would view stat loss upon death as too extreme and would most likely just encourage blue PK's rather than devoted Reds.

I disagree. I think it just curbs rampant PKing.

It also prevents reds from cheating the system by UMing off their counts.

 

[Derium of ls]

I disagree. I think it just curbs rampant PKing.

It also prevents reds from cheating the system by UMing off their counts.

I think if it happens at death then we will be dealing with blue PK's (I know I would) who will just hide in their house while they sleep. meaning earthquake will not take care of the problem, cause we would have to risk going red to kill a PK who is macroing, silly risk to take

At least with stat loss at res, once they die they will macro it off, and for that amount of time we won't have to deal with them at all... period.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

But...consider what you just said...

cause we would have to risk going red to kill a PK who is macroing, silly risk to take

EVERYONE would have to consider who they killed BEFORE they killed them. That's the point.

If going red had real consequences, then most people would carefully consider killing a new player, or a miner, because the reward is outweighed by the risk.

Stat Loss on death is not a deal breaker for me...but I think it should be considered. The problem with old school UO is that it was easier to be a PK than to not be a PK. That needs to be corrected, otherwise...I can almost say without a doubt...the shard will fail...quickly. Unless the goal is to create a pure 100% PvP server...in which case it will be empty from day 1 until the day they shut it down...about 6 months in.

 

[Tanivar]

EA made Tram because they were losing customers due to rampant PKing. A Classic Shard without serious limitations on PKing won't last because there will eventually be only PKers on that shard. The other players will have said %^&%$ this and gone elswhere.

Let this sink in PKer people.

No one is going to pay a monthly fee to be fun for you if their not able to have fun themselves. And few find being repetively PKed while they are trying to accomplish things they want to do in-game fun.

A Classic Shard that drives out non-PKer players due to excessive PKing will die just as pre-UO:Ren UO did.

 

[Kaleb]

I think if it happens at death then we will be dealing with blue PK's (I know I would) who will just hide in their house while they sleep. meaning earthquake will not take care of the problem, cause we would have to risk going red to kill a PK who is macroing, silly risk to take

At least with stat loss at res, once they die they will macro it off, and for that amount of time we won't have to deal with them at all... period.

I suggested early in this thread, that once a blue gains a murder count he looses the ability of being able to recall/gate if attacked, If a blue is free of murder counts they can recall away when attacked, this is a great way for miners/crafters to get away while harvesting but at the same time making the other players think if killing someone is worth losing a great PK defense system. Coupled with stat loss will make being a PK hard but worthwhile.

 

[Derium of ls]

But...consider what you just said...



EVERYONE would have to consider who they killed BEFORE they killed them. That's the point.

If going red had real consequences, then most people would carefully consider killing a new player, or a miner, because the reward is outweighed by the risk.

Stat Loss on death is not a deal breaker for me...but I think it should be considered. The problem with old school UO is that it was easier to be a PK than to not be a PK. That needs to be corrected, otherwise...I can almost say without a doubt...the shard will fail...quickly. Unless the goal is to create a pure 100% PvP server...in which case it will be empty from day 1 until the day they shut it down...about 6 months in.

I'm saying getting a murder count for killing a PK would be silly, also considering you would be killing an unattended macroing PK.

All I'm saying is we will see a lot more blue PKs if stat loss happens at death. Making it even harder for us to know who is going to try and kill us and who won't. Plus it will be easier for them to macro it off IMHO.

Now to be fair to the PKs, they are effected by greifing more then anyone else in the game... period. for years all I saw were people who wuld either trick the PK into going into stat, or even back to red. Normally it would be tricking them to gain more murder counts at the time, then killing them and laughing cause they couldn't res. and that's why I'd be a blue PK, I'm not running the risk of a greif tactic making me lose stats.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

If blue PKs were a problem...I have a solution for it:

When you reach 5 murder counts you go red. You can macro off the penalties for them...but the count remains. Once you hit 20, you are perma red. From then on, whenever you die...stat loss.

So if you kill someone as a blue...1, 2, 3 times. No big deal...but that counter is ticking up. Once you do it a 20th time...you are a murderer...for good.

How's that? Still want to be a blue PK?

 

[theoldclint]

why is there so much debate about what modifications should be made to a classic shard? the rules are already in place. when you start tweaking this or that, it ceases to be classic.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

As I have said before...this entire idea will fail if the devs are not involved, and don't keep adding things to balance PKing.

Of course, I am not suggesting that they make it impossible...but if you are going to be a PK, it should be harder than not being one.