Classic shard.

[Dakkon Blackblade]

Well everyone it looks like we got the sticky we requested, big thank you to the mod who approved it. I'd like to thank Hawkeye for taking the time to post as well, even though he is opposed to the idea.

The truth is all any of us can do is speculate, I can say with certainty that there are some free shard communities paying attention to this thread. Also if I recall did EA not send out a poll some years ago inquiring about a classic shard?

Were those results ever released to anyones knowledge? In any event getting another poll out would be helpful, the way I see it is like this, basically if the devs can in some way run with our idea to create this as a new collectors box/cd with the additional option of a digital download, I can only guarantee you that I will preorder that goodness and I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one.

I want to make EA money if they can give us a classic shard, and just in my personal life without thinking I can guarantee two more preorders besides my own. Now I realize that is anecdotal but obviously that is where we are stuck, there are no concrete numbers, that's why the idea has to be spread around and inquired upon.

Another thing is, initially give it a three month or so run and if it doesn't pan out then close the doors on it and say at least we gave them a shot. I don't really see this idea as a waste of developer time, I mean there are what 26 production shards? somewhere in that area.

And most of those shards have low populations, what we can deduce from that is that either some people have just gotten tired of UO because it is showing it's age and left for greener pastures, or that even the players who agreed with the tram/fel split can't stand post AOS UO.

In any event civil discussion is always a good thing.

 

[Unsatisfied]

My only concern with charging people to play the classic shard is that it will deter a lot of people with the attitude that "I dont want to fork out more money only to find out its not really classic and they screwed it up" I'd much rather it go with the idea that you can play the classic shard but you cannot place houses unless you buy the classic shard code or something like that. That way people will see what it is without having to fork out their cash and then when they wanna get serious they can buy the cd or code.

 

[Lord Chaos]

How is it not a huge drain on developers time? They have to develop a whole new UO game mostly from scratch (as the old server files no longer exist) and mix and mash old and new features into it.

All that on a gamble that people will want to pay 13 dollars a month to play on it, instead of 0 dollars on a free shard.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

Well to be fair Chaos, lots of people do play on free shards, but many of them routinely say the same things about the problems with free shards.

1) Why do you think I am on a free shard to begin with?
2) Free shards lack the security that professional EA shards have they can dissapear at any time (why I don't play them personally)
3)The few times I did try free shards long ago GM corruption was a problem on all three of the shards I tried, and I've heard similar stories from others.
4) Free Shards have almost no community for the most part, that isn't to say some don't but most that I have seen don't.

The reasoning behind the Box idea is simple it's more revenue in addition to the monthly fee, there has to be some incentive to get the team involved and money talks far louder than words do.

Now I'm not the person to talk to about pricing but I would pay the same amount for that box should it happen as a new title, but again this is all premature speculation.

My only concern with charging people to play the classic shard is that it will deter a lot of people with the attitude that "I dont want to fork out more money only to find out its not really classic and they screwed it up" I'd much rather it go with the idea that you can play the classic shard but you cannot place houses unless you buy the classic shard code or something like that. That way people will see what it is without having to fork out their cash and then when they wanna get serious they can buy the cd or code.

I understand the concern but at the same time we have to remember as chaos pointed out, that the devs have to build this from the ground up pretty much.

When you think of that prospect it does seem daunting unless you dangle some incentive out there, if the majority agrees, then even worst case scenario we all just have to buy a special account code or something in addition to monthly fees.

The entire pricing scheme almost seems to deserve it's own poll though doesn't it?

 

[Babble]

Honestly, I think the biggest problem of UO today is the Trammel/Felucca split and what it caused to the community and to PvP. This issue should be solved on ALL shards. Building a classic shard with the described restrictions out of nostalgy is not the right way to go.

I would still claim that the itembaseness of AOS is the biggest factor for most players that left and still follow the game. I agree that the current subscribtion base has made their peace with AOS, but there must be a reason why Darkfall, Mortal Online, Xsyon, Earthrise, Dawntide and others are being developed and that most of them base their infuence on the original concepts of UO.

I agree though that EA is not willing to spend the resources on a classic UO shard, so I think it better that they don't try.

 

[Babble]

How can AOS be a WoW clone, when AOS is older than WoW?

AOS is a confessed Diablo Clone and and Blizzards more famous product with the same system is just wow and rather in the minds of people than an outdated 2d game like diablo ...or UO.

 

[Unsatisfied]

The reasoning behind the Box idea is simple it's more revenue in addition to the monthly fee, there has to be some incentive to get the team involved and money talks far louder than words do.

Now I'm not the person to talk to about pricing but I would pay the same amount for that box should it happen as a new title, but again this is all premature speculation.



I understand the concern but at the same time we have to remember as chaos pointed out, that the devs have to build this from the ground up pretty much.

When you think of that prospect it does seem daunting unless you dangle some incentive out there, if the majority agrees, then even worst case scenario we all just have to buy a special account code or something in addition to monthly fees.

The entire pricing scheme almost seems to deserve it's own poll though doesn't it?

Im more than happy to pay for it, all Im saying is a lot of people wont pay it on the grounds that they expect EA to screw it up. If they were allowed to play it with restrictions like not placeing housing until they paid for the box/code then those people would still join also, and eventually buy the box/code but until such a time at least they will be renewing their $x a month subscription which is better than nothing.

 

[Unsatisfied]

How is it not a huge drain on developers time? They have to develop a whole new UO game mostly from scratch (as the old server files no longer exist) and mix and mash old and new features into it.

All that on a gamble that people will want to pay 13 dollars a month to play on it, instead of 0 dollars on a free shard.

But most the things the developers have done in the past 10 years has been a "drain" on their time then... Subscriptions continue to plumit. Everything they do is a gamble. Every new expansion, every new client... And all of it to date directed to the current (tiny) subscription base. Why not take this gamble to finally give people back what was taken from them when all the new expansions crushed classic UO?

 

[SoulStealer A.O]

@hawke

There has already been over 2000 players to hit a single T2A era ruleset server. 600ish that play another and 1000ish that play a different ruleset pre AoS shard. They arn't going to get 10 000 players or anything, at least I don't think and for sure not right off the hop. But I'd imagine you would see around 3500 off the bat if promoted right and a decent abount of time was given to let the hype build up.

Also, try stopping by a freeshard and ask if players would play an EA server, I have in the past 2 weeks. 80% say yes and the other 20 would end up playing as soon as they realized UO isn't as fun on a population. I mean, 600ish players is tolerable with the Classic lands + T2A, I can't imagine would that would be like with Trammel/Fel, Ish, and whatever else has been added since p16.

 

[tenduil]

@hawke

There has already been over 2000 players to hit a single T2A era ruleset server. 600ish that play another and 1000ish that play a different ruleset pre AoS shard. They arn't going to get 10 000 players or anything, at least I don't think and for sure not right off the hop. But I'd imagine you would see around 3500 off the bat if promoted right and a decent abount of time was given to let the hype build up.

Also, try stopping by a freeshard and ask if players would play an EA server, I have in the past 2 weeks. 80% say yes and the other 20 would end up playing as soon as they realized UO isn't as fun on a population. I mean, 600ish players is tolerable with the Classic lands + T2A, I can't imagine would that would be like with Trammel/Fel, Ish, and whatever else has been added since p16.

3500 players * $10/mo= $35,000 extra revenue a month
2000 players * $10/mo= $20,000 extra revenue a month
1000 players * $10/mo= $10,000 extra revenue a month
I used $10/mo to account for those that pay in bulk and CC fee's so that this # reflects a approx income to EA before business expenses(other than Credit Card fee's)

This isn't hard to fathom given the support and desire shown for a Classic Shard. Even 1000 players equaling ~$10,000 extra revenue a month is nothing to snuff at.

 

[SoulStealer A.O]

To us 10k a month is alot but to EA I'd assume they would need more then that. I mean an extra 120k a year is nothing to these guys. Our case is a good one aslong as they arn't losing money and people at the company are willing to work/spend time on the project I'd imagine.

 

[Storm]

Wanted you all here to know there is a new Forum we have been working behind the scenes on and we are giving it a test run its specifically for Feluccan's here is a link if interested!
http://vboards.stratics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=549

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I completely understand that some players are wishing back the old days of UO. But many of the changes of the past 10 years were really cool, and I never would want to miss those. All the new skills. New dungeons and quests. All the cool changes on old skills. Custom housing. All the crafting enhancements. Those are things 99% of the players really dig.

First...there is NO way you can prove that 99% of the players "dig" anything at all...just like we cannot prove that x amount of old players will come rushing back if a classic shard is created, so instances of tossing out baseless numbers are pretty much discounted by everyone here.

Second...it is good that you enjoy current UO. No one is suggesting that you, or anyone else, would be forced to play a classic shard. If a classic shard is created, all you have to do is to continue exactly what you have been doing, whatever that may be. It will be another shard on the list that you can ignore.

Because I am convinced that such a shard will require maintaining, because players will constantly ask for updates, fixes, add-ons etc. It is an illusion to believe that you can build a shard and just let it run for years without touching it. And who wants to play on a shard where there are no changes and no updates anyway?

No one has suggested that that I have seen.

Also, what makes our subscription dollars worth less than anyone else's? If there is a classic shard, it deserves equal attention from the dev team...it just does not deserve to end up the item based/risk free/over inflated mess that the other shards have become.

I would rather play on Siege, and I don't even like Siege much.

Cool...so go play on Siege. What's your point?

Honestly, I think the biggest problem of UO today is the Trammel/Felucca split and what it caused to the community and to PvP. This issue should be solved on ALL shards.

Good luck with that. If you want to see the game closed down, then let the devs do exactly what you are describing.

Building a classic shard with the described restrictions out of nostalgy is not the right way to go.

Thank you for your opinion on the matter. I think there are a good number of us that disagree.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Wanted you all here to know there is a new Forum we have been working behind the scenes on and we are giving it a test run its specifically for Feluccan's here is a link if interested!
http://vboards.stratics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=549

Neat!

Not sure how this relates to a Classic Shard...since it wouldn't have Fel or Feluccan's...but thanks.

 

[SoulStealer A.O]

Incase you miss it in the other thread.

Patch Notes 1997-2000 http://wiki.uosecondage.com/?title=Main_Page

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Classic shard launch ideas:

I think it is important that a Classic Shard not be just a freebie given to everyone. I did think that for a while, but just looking at how many Tram/AoS fanbois complain about the idea, I think it is better that we sort of 'pay our own way'. Pretty much all of the other expansions that have come for UO have needed to be purchased, so this should be no different. So with that said, here are my ideas on how EA should market this shard:

- Re-launch box that is exactly like the original, minus the Origin logos of course . ($49.99)
- Include the cloth map and pin that came with the original.
- A new limited charter edition box should be available as well for a higher price. ($79.99)
- Purchasing either box should not be required...a code should be available for a lower price ($29.99)
- Only those players that have purchased a code or a box can access the shard at all.
- A seperate forum should be created for the Classic Shard that is limited to those people that purchase the code or box. (not sure how this could be policed)


Perhaps a 10-30 day trial could be made available for people that didn't buy the code?? But it would have to be limited access.

I think there are some very important things that EA/Mythic needs to find a way to limit on a classic shard...

-scripting (the up front fee might stop some of this)
-duping (no transfers should take care of a good deal of this)
-gold and item sellers (not sure how to curb this one...no bank checks would be a good start)

Thoughts? Ideas?

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

I think it is important that a Classic Shard not be just a freebie given to everyone. I did think that for a while, but just looking at how many Tram/AoS fanbois complain about the idea, I think it is better that we sort of 'pay our own way'. Pretty much all of the other expansions that have come for UO have needed to be purchased, so this should be no different. So with that said, here are my ideas on how EA should market this shard:

- Re-launch box that is exactly like the original, minus the Origin logos of course . ($49.99)
- Include the cloth map and pin that came with the original.
- A new limited charter edition box should be available as well for a higher price. ($79.99)
- Purchasing either box should not be required...a code should be available for a lower price ($29.99)
- Only those players that have purchased a code or a box can access the shard at all.
- A seperate forum should be created for the Classic Shard that is limited to those people that purchase the code or box. (not sure how this could be policed)

I like this for pricing options, and like I said earlier without more incentive than just a monthly fee it doesn't seem as likely to get off the ground.

Perhaps a 10-30 day trial could be made available for people that didn't buy the code?? But it would have to be limited access.

I think there are some very important things that EA/Mythic needs to find a way to limit on a classic shard...

-scripting (the up front fee might stop some of this)
-duping (no transfers should take care of a good deal of this)
-gold and item sellers (not sure how to curb this one...no bank checks would be a good start)

Some ideas to deter dupers/sellers.
1) Trial accounts cannot place houses
2) Trial accounts are restricted to one character
3) No bank checks for trials
4) No transfers as mentioned

The above may seem a bit draconian to some but we need to do everything we can to deter these kinds of players, there will always be a few that slip through the cracks somehow but every step we can take to make it hard on them is a good idea.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Personally, I would rather see no bank checks period...but I understand why they are useful. I think they lend themselves more to questionable activity than almost any other single 'feature' in the game, but that's just me.

Also, for trial accounts...how about no recall? How many scripters do you see recalling in and out of specific banks dropping ore into bank boxes?

If they had to carry the resources to the bank manually, it might cut down on it.

 

[Derium of ls]

Personally, I would rather see no bank checks period...but I understand why they are useful. I think they lend themselves more to questionable activity than almost any other single 'feature' in the game, but that's just me.

Also, for trial accounts...how about no recall? How many scripters do you see recalling in and out of specific banks dropping ore into bank boxes?

If they had to carry the resources to the bank manually, it might cut down on it.

this is just a quick statement, and I agree gold checks are the easiest thing for people to dupe. well what if there was no checks, and gold had a lowered weight limit? so if a duper did the most they could do was about 600,000 at a time. then again, 600k would still be considered a lot of money. so I'm really not sure =/

I would LOVE to see something like when a house is for sale, you can buy it just like from a vendor. so now we could keep gold the same weight and not have to fuss with large amounts of gold or pack horses to buy a home. this way scamming is cut down and when you put a house for sale if someone finds it, they don't have to ICQ you ect ect, they can just buy it right then and there. As for the gold it would pop into the bank box... of course what happens if they have more than 125 items? I'm not sure =(

 

[Derium of ls]

If trial accounts could not place homes, have skills over 80, recall that would kill a lot of scripting. And if we had to pay a fee to get onto the server, then it would be a GOOD thing everytime we catch a scripter, EA just made money off banning them

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

I'm in agreement with the no recalling, and I could live without checks at all just fine. And now for your random nostalgia invoking song of the day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X1gC3BLq2w&feature=related

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Simple solution to the bank box thing. Allow it to hold infinite gold. No need for checks in that case.

Player vendors always could (as I recall) pull money directly from the bank when you purchase something. Trading houses is a problem, perhaps a mechanism needs to be in place so that when a house transfer is completed, it pulls the gold directly from the bank??

The number one reason I can see people needing bank checks is to keep their vendors running. So why can't vendors draw directly from the bank for their fees? This only makes sense considering they can for people that make purchases.

Also, no...keep gold heavy. In fact, not that long ago, gold was made much lighter. I'd like to see it made even heavier than it was. This cuts down on scripting.

 

[Derium of ls]

Simple solution to the bank box thing. Allow it to hold infinite gold. No need for checks in that case.

Player vendors always could (as I recall) pull money directly from the bank when you purchase something. Trading houses is a problem, perhaps a mechanism needs to be in place so that when a house transfer is completed, it pulls the gold directly from the bank??

The number one reason I can see people needing bank checks is to keep their vendors running. So why can't vendors draw directly from the bank for their fees? This only makes sense considering they can for people that make purchases.

Also, no...keep gold heavy. In fact, not that long ago, gold was made much lighter. I'd like to see it made even heavier than it was. This cuts down on scripting.

I honestly know nothing of duping, but does it also dupe the items in their bankbox? if not then unlimited gold would be a nice idea

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I honestly know nothing of duping, but does it also dupe the items in their bankbox? if not then unlimited gold would be a nice idea

I am not sure on this one. As I understand it, dupers do something with shard transfers that ends up with a copy of an item being on both shards...much in the way that the old server boundry dupe worked before they put in code that checked for duplicate item IDs.

I am not really familiar with the exact process of how these things work, nor would I like to be.

 

[Ray_]

All this back and forth is sort of silly. UO in Dec '99/Jan '00 was just about perfect. All of the T2A initiatives had been completed, most of the important post-T2A features had been implemented, and the game had reached a feature set stability that it hasn't seen before or after.

Things you guys keep mentioning like stat/skill locks were in at that time. No need to keep specifying that if you go with the Dec '99/Jan '00 starting date.

The Jan '00 date is very important as a patch in Jan or Feb of that year removed pre-casting. Pre-casting MUST be in any Classic Shard.


Oh, and this is something I haven't seen discussed yet:
Also during that time period, runebooks were in the game but were unblessed. It is extremely important to make sure they stay that way on a Classic Shard. Blessed runebooks made the gameworld infinitely smaller. Player "hubs" were circumvented and became obsolete. It used to be that a guildhouse was a center of a community, and one of those reasons would be the rune library therein. Other dedicated "rune library houses" would serve as centers of player interaction - people would naturally gravitate towards these places.
I can't deny that carrying around 6 runebooks at all times (loaded up with recall charges, to boot!) was very convenient personally, but it was also very damaging to the community aspect of the game.

 

[Ray_]

Oh, hey, this used to be my avatar on message boards back around 2002. Thought you guys might get a kick out of it:

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

All this back and forth is sort of silly. UO in Dec '99/Jan '00 was just about perfect. All of the T2A initiatives had been completed, most of the important post-T2A features had been implemented, and the game had reached a feature set stability that it hasn't seen before or after.

Things you guys keep mentioning like stat/skill locks were in at that time. No need to keep specifying that if you go with the Dec '99/Jan '00 starting date.

The Jan '00 date is very important as a patch in Jan or Feb of that year removed pre-casting. Pre-casting MUST be in any Classic Shard.

I would say first of all that not everyone viewing this thread realizes that some of those things were in effect by that date, honestly as long as it has been since most of us last played some of those memories are a bit sketchy.

Secondly no precasting, I've always felt that precasting was a mistake and obviously the devs took it out because they didn't intend for mages to do it in the first place, with the amount of damage halberds and warhammers could do in one shot, it's a bit to much like an I win feature when you can store spells for use right after hitting people with a weapon like that.

Especially when you take something like UOA into consideration, which I am not knocking since I used UOA since the time it got approved. Just saying the quick disarming key that comes with UOA plus precast is just asking for trouble in my opinion.

 

[Evlar]

Just to mention that *if* a classic shard is indeed launched, you can count on me to be one of the first there, working hard on my crafting skills and will most likely be found at Brit Forge, should you need repairs

 

[Storm]

Just to mention that *if* a classic shard is indeed launched, you can count on me to be one of the first there, working hard on my crafting skills and will most likely be found at Brit Forge, should you need repairs

I had not thought of that aspect I really liked those days sitting repairing peoples stuff !

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

I will be running to the forge with a fresh load of ingots to sell you

 

[Derium of ls]

Just to mention that *if* a classic shard is indeed launched, you can count on me to be one of the first there, working hard on my crafting skills and will most likely be found at Brit Forge, should you need repairs

tis where I got my start, and I will be there with you.

 

[Evlar]

There you go you see... more interaction

Brit Forge on most shards was a great place to peddle your wares as a smith, or buy weapons and armour as a player without a smith.

I also seem to recall that there were often plenty of players around not only West Brit Bank, but usually always plenty at Moonglow, Vesper, Trinsic, Yew, Skara Brae... not just bank sitting, but trading, talking, seeking companions for dungeon crawls... interacting more.

Guild houses, player run rune libraries and player "towns" were also pillars of the communities on different shards, far more so than they seem to be today.

The direction the game has headed since AoS, it just seems to me that the community has deminished more, whilst also making it possible to play without any great need to interact with other players.

For me personally, it's perhaps playing as a crafter that I miss the most interaction from. Back then it was important to trade and repair "in person" to build a good reputation. Although there were obviously scammers and idiots who would pose as crafters and run off with an item given to them for repair, for the most part, a good crafter was a very important and often highly trusted member of the community. Although I've embraced pretty much all styles of characters over the years, crafting as it was then, is perhaps one I can single out as being the most enjoyable for friendly interaction with other players.

 

[Evlar]

tis where I got my start, and I will be there with you.

I'll pump the bellows, you strike the iron

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

All this back and forth is sort of silly. UO in Dec '99/Jan '00 was just about perfect. All of the T2A initiatives had been completed, most of the important post-T2A features had been implemented, and the game had reached a feature set stability that it hasn't seen before or after.

Things you guys keep mentioning like stat/skill locks were in at that time. No need to keep specifying that if you go with the Dec '99/Jan '00 starting date.

The Jan '00 date is very important as a patch in Jan or Feb of that year removed pre-casting. Pre-casting MUST be in any Classic Shard.


Oh, and this is something I haven't seen discussed yet:
Also during that time period, runebooks were in the game but were unblessed. It is extremely important to make sure they stay that way on a Classic Shard. Blessed runebooks made the gameworld infinitely smaller. Player "hubs" were circumvented and became obsolete. It used to be that a guildhouse was a center of a community, and one of those reasons would be the rune library therein. Other dedicated "rune library houses" would serve as centers of player interaction - people would naturally gravitate towards these places.
I can't deny that carrying around 6 runebooks at all times (loaded up with recall charges, to boot!) was very convenient personally, but it was also very damaging to the community aspect of the game.

At first, I was thinking no to runebooks, but if they are not blessed, no big deal. You are absolutely right that blessed runebooks created 'walking rune libraries'.

Very good point.

But I don't think I agree on pre-casting.

One of the biggest problems that plagued UO back then was that it was way too easy to PK someone. That was part of the problem.

The biggest reason most of us (at least I) don't just specify a specific publish or date is that there are have been a few things, bug fixes mostly, that need to go into a Classic Shard. I have been involved with these discussions for a long time now, and I have found that the moment you cite a specific pub or date, some AoS/Tram fanboi will pop up and point out some bug that was present after that pub or date. So because some people want to be obtuse, it is necessary to word things more carefully.

The other reason is that we (at least I) want to see a Classic Shard that will go in a different direction than what the game did with UO:R. There is currently a free shard out there, and I will not utter it's name other than to say that it is very relevant to the era we are discussing, and it is absolutely overrun with PKs. You can't go anywhere in any dungeon without being attacked by other players. Some people may say "well, that's how it was back then"...

...and they would be right...that's why we got screwed with Trammel.

 

[Evlar]

I will be running to the forge with a fresh load of ingots to sell you

Which actually leads to an interesting point.

Obviously back then, ore veins were constant. I used to mine a hell of a lot back then, so I always had stock to make whatever people wanted me to make them.

Would people prefer the current random mining when it comes to ore colours, or the system as it was, when once you found a coloured ore vein, you knew it would always be there?

My preference personally was that veins were static. I was never a scripter, didn't ever use any third party programs and simply used a prospecting tool or the "use last item" macro within the game. Mining could be more of an adventure in itself in those days anyway

Given it was pre-Trammel, my very first character became a smith/miner/swordsman.

I actually surprised a few raiding reds from time to time, with my vanq pickaxe. The funny thing was, even when I died occasionally, nobody ever looted the pickaxe!

From memory, I seem to recall that I actually found that pickaxe on the ground at one of the banks, discarded as being a "worthless" weapon, but it gave me an "idea" for my character... as such, if you went after my ingots, you would be fighting an angry, bearded, apron wearing, pickaxe swinging madman!

That in itself was amusing to many of the PK's I met and after a while, they got to know me and left me alone to my mining.

 

[Unsatisfied]

I would say first of all that not everyone viewing this thread realizes that some of those things were in effect by that date, honestly as long as it has been since most of us last played some of those memories are a bit sketchy.

Secondly no precasting, I've always felt that precasting was a mistake and obviously the devs took it out because they didn't intend for mages to do it in the first place, with the amount of damage halberds and warhammers could do in one shot, it's a bit to much like an I win feature when you can store spells for use right after hitting people with a weapon like that.

Especially when you take something like UOA into consideration, which I am not knocking since I used UOA since the time it got approved. Just saying the quick disarming key that comes with UOA plus precast is just asking for trouble in my opinion.

sorry no pre casting would be a massive deal breaker for me and I'm sure I'll have a load of support. that's one of the biggest things I miss.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

sorry no pre casting would be a massive deal breaker for me and I'm sure I'll have a load of support. that's one of the biggest things I miss.

Well like anything else it's up for discussion until we get into some kind of final stage for presenting things to the devs. But I personally vote no on it and so has Morgana, I think many more will vote not to support precasting but I could be wrong.

If I am wrong and it makes it's way in then I can deal with it but I just feel it's easy mode for pks.

 

[dum3886]

I completely understand that some players are wishing back the old days of UO. But many of the changes of the past 10 years were really cool, and I never would want to miss those. All the new skills. New dungeons and quests. All the cool changes on old skills. Custom housing. All the crafting enhancements. Those are things 99% of the players really dig.

There is no backing for your 99% claim at all. And it is so obvious it is not true as 40-50% of the population has voiced their disapproval of the changes in UO by quitting over the last few years. Yes some may have wanted to leave for other reasons but why arn't new customers joining as fast... bcz it just isn't what people are looking for. T2A server will provide a niche market.. for all we know it could eventually become the benchmark for MMORPG regarding playstyle. People r becoming bored of being restricted look on any forum regarding MMORPGS they r always like "anyone know any sandbox MMO" etc...

 

[Hunters' Moon]

Just to mention that *if* a classic shard is indeed launched, you can count on me to be one of the first there, working hard on my crafting skills and will most likely be found at Brit Forge, should you need repairs

Oh yeah! I'll be there too 1st day! Tailoring and fletching work at your service!!

 

[dum3886]

I wanna b a fisherman/blacksmith ... and off course an evil murderer

 

[Ray_]

Well like anything else it's up for discussion until we get into some kind of final stage for presenting things to the devs. But I personally vote no on it and so has Morgana, I think many more will vote not to support precasting but I could be wrong.

If I am wrong and it makes it's way in then I can deal with it but I just feel it's easy mode for pks.

Sorry dude, but pre-casting is one of the first features returning players will look for in a Classic Shard. It's a non-starter if it's not in, and I'd go so far as to say that the shard would be a failure without.

It really should not be up for discussion. It'd be the same as if having a Trammel facet or not was up for discussion.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

Sorry dude, but pre-casting is one of the first features returning players will look for in a Classic Shard. It's a non-starter if it's not in, and I'd go so far as to say that the shard would be a failure without.

It really should not be up for discussion. It'd be the same as if having a Trammel facet or not was up for discussion.

Could not disagree with you more here, and it's most definantly not a "non-starter" at least not for the majority of people participating up to this point. Also apples and oranges on the trammel comparison, you simply cannot compare removing what was probably an unplanned interaction between magic and weapon use vs the splitting of an entire world and it's playerbase.

Like I said if more and more people get involved and it turns out that the majority of people want it then I have to suck it up and agree that it's in, but people the stonewalling thing isn't going to cut it with an idea like this, we all have our own personal "deal breakers" but this shard is not going to be what everyones personal dream shard is down to last little detail.

Compromise and majority decision is going to have to be the ultimate majority decider, that and whatever the devs deem to be good from their own design point of view.

Just because people have said the time-frame of the shard will be T2A doesn't mean we are striving for Second Age like accuracy down to the smallest details, and nothing that people have brought up so far is off the table, everything is up for consideration within reason of course.

 

[Derium of ls]

There is no backing for your 99% claim at all. And it is so obvious it is not true as 40-50% of the population has voiced their disapproval of the changes in UO by quitting over the last few years. Yes some may have wanted to leave for other reasons but why arn't new customers joining as fast... bcz it just isn't what people are looking for. T2A server will provide a niche market.. for all we know it could eventually become the benchmark for MMORPG regarding playstyle. People r becoming bored of being restricted look on any forum regarding MMORPGS they r always like "anyone know any sandbox MMO" etc...

I agree, people flocked to Darkfall forums and Mortal Online forums HOPING the game would be old UO. we got in sooooo many fights on the forums because so many of us wanted an old school sandbox game to play.

anyone who has looked at darkfall forums, mortals, spoken to old UO players... it blows me away that they think a classic server would fail.

as you said, go to any new mmo forum, always a lot of people asking for sandbox

 

[tenduil]

Could not disagree with you more here, and it's most definantly not a "non-starter" at least not for the majority of people participating up to this point. Also apples and oranges on the trammel comparison, you simply cannot compare removing what was probably an unplanned interaction between magic and weapon use vs the splitting of an entire world and it's playerbase.

Like I said if more and more people get involved and it turns out that the majority of people want it then I have to suck it up and agree that it's in, but people the stonewalling thing isn't going to cut it with an idea like this, we all have our own personal "deal breakers" but this shard is not going to be what everyones personal dream shard is down to last little detail.

Compromise and majority decision is going to have to be the ultimate majority decider, that and whatever the devs deem to be good from their own design point of view.

Just because people have said the time-frame of the shard will be T2A doesn't mean we are striving for Second Age like accuracy down to the smallest details, and nothing that people have brought up so far is off the table, everything is up for consideration within reason of course.

Dakkon I've liked what you've said in alot of your posts but not here. The issue is that if a solid time/publish/update is not set as the standard them it becomes to easy to pick and choose what makes the most amount of players happy... which does result in a trammel type end result. T2A reflects the highest votes on the poll here along with the general consensus among posters. Pre-casting is a part of that.
This goes both ways as individual's 'deal breakers' are the same issue. A set date/publish/etc will solve 99% of the debates and squabbling on here.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

Dakkon I've liked what you've said in alot of your posts but not here. The issue is that if a solid time/publish/update is not set as the standard them it becomes to easy to pick and choose what makes the most amount of players happy... which does result in a trammel type end result. T2A reflects the highest votes on the poll here along with the general consensus among posters. Pre-casting is a part of that.
This goes both ways as individual's 'deal breakers' are the same issue. A set date/publish/etc will solve 99% of the debates and squabbling on here.

I don't mind going this way with it either, but I don't know which publish it was that precast was removed, if this is really what people want to do then fine we can vote on a list of publishes and settle it once and for all.

I just don't like the idea of completely draconian adherence to T2A only features, it isn't like every change made afterwords was horrible. So what does everyone else think we just vote based on a particular publish?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Well like anything else it's up for discussion until we get into some kind of final stage for presenting things to the devs. But I personally vote no on it and so has Morgana, I think many more will vote not to support precasting but I could be wrong.

If I am wrong and it makes it's way in then I can deal with it but I just feel it's easy mode for pks.

Actually, it is not a deal breaker for me one way or the other. As long as there are penalties for PKing (stat loss on death, no town, etc.) then all this does is change the rules of engagement. It makes it just as easy for me to get the jump on a red as it does for him to do it to me. The only difference is I won't go into stat loss. So no biggie.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Sorry dude, but pre-casting is one of the first features returning players will look for in a Classic Shard. It's a non-starter if it's not in, and I'd go so far as to say that the shard would be a failure without.

It really should not be up for discussion. It'd be the same as if having a Trammel facet or not was up for discussion.

What?!!

Oh come on now...

...not having pre-casting is NOT the same as having Trammel.

And they call me a drama queen.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

The issue is that if a solid time/publish/update is not set as the standard them it becomes to easy to pick and choose what makes the most amount of players happy...

And that's a BAD THING?

Everyone involved in this thread (besides those that have dropped into to troll it, or say that the devs shouldn't waste "resources" or "bandwidth" on it) agreed in the beginning that our goal was to layout a clear list of what we all wanted in a Classic Shard. I think if we try to stay too strictly to an exact replica of any specific time period or specific publish, that the shard will end up alienating a lot of people. Primarily if it puts no checks on rampant PKing. Early in the thread, there were a lot of people that were pro-Classic Shard, but anti-Fel only (no Trammel). A good number of those people were willing to compromise and agree that a Fel only ruleset was okay, as long as there were certain checks against PKing.

I am not about to throw all of those people under the bus now and just go along with re-creating a scenario that has already FAILED.

Listen, everyone, please...if the devs just launch a shard that is an exact copy of T2A...at any point in time before UO:R...without putting certain things, the very things we have been discussing in this thread, into the shard...then it will fail. And, when it fails, all of the pro-Tram/AoS types here will point to it, and say that they "told us so" ... and we will never have another chance...ever.

It is better for us all to let go of the idea that we are going to magically return to a specific era of our lives that is gone by. Even if they created a shard exactly like the best day you ever had on UO...it will not be the same. Times have changed. People have moved on. And more importantly, people have many choices now they didn't have back then. This shouldn't be about trying to emulate the past, it should be about trying to give the past another chance...without falling into the same trappings that led it to fail (Trammel).

It bothers me to see that so many people that have come to the thread late are getting very hung up on details.

You have to ask yourself this question:

"If this shard does happen, and it is not an exact copy of _________ publish or _________ date, will I still play on it?"

Before you answer, consider that your choices are current UO, free shards, or whatever this shard ends up being. Does whatever _________ is still seem that important to you??

That's why we have the sticky thread. It outlines what we all came together to agree were the ideal conditions for a Classic Shard. Is that list an exact copy of a T2A shard? No. But that's okay, because it is much closer than what is live now.

Remember...the future is ours to shape...we need to learn from the past, not be slaves to it.

 

[tenduil]

I don't mind going this way with it either, but I don't know which publish it was that precast was removed, if this is really what people want to do then fine we can vote on a list of publishes and settle it once and for all.

I just don't like the idea of completely draconian adherence to T2A only features, it isn't like every change made afterwords was horrible. So what does everyone else think we just vote based on a particular publish?

It looks like the change to precast was done on:
Server Publish Jan 24 2000 9:14AM CST
( http://wiki.uosecondage.com/?title=2000_Patch_Notes )

<shrug> most of the changes on that page, both that day and before after, aren't really game changers. Many though would have a problem with removing the pre-casting part though the way it sounds there is different than I was thinking.

 

[tenduil]

And that's a BAD THING?

Everyone involved in this thread (besides those that have dropped into to troll it, or say that the devs shouldn't waste "resources" or "bandwidth" on it) agreed in the beginning that our goal was to layout a clear list of what we all wanted in a Classic Shard. I think if we try to stay too strictly to an exact replica of any specific time period or specific publish, that the shard will end up alienating a lot of people. Primarily if it puts no checks on rampant PKing. Early in the thread, there were a lot of people that were pro-Classic Shard, but anti-Fel only (no Trammel). A good number of those people were willing to compromise and agree that a Fel only ruleset was okay, as long as there were certain checks against PKing.

I am not about to throw all of those people under the bus now and just go along with re-creating a scenario that has already FAILED.

Listen, everyone, please...if the devs just launch a shard that is an exact copy of T2A...at any point in time before UO:R...without putting certain things, the very things we have been discussing in this thread, into the shard...then it will fail. And, when it fails, all of the pro-Tram/AoS types here will point to it, and say that they "told us so" ... and we will never have another chance...ever.

It is better for us all to let go of the idea that we are going to magically return to a specific era of our lives that is gone by. Even if they created a shard exactly like the best day you ever had on UO...it will not be the same. Times have changed. People have moved on. And more importantly, people have many choices now they didn't have back then. This shouldn't be about trying to emulate the past, it should be about trying to give the past another chance...without falling into the same trappings that led it to fail (Trammel).

It bothers me to see that so many people that have come to the thread late are getting very hung up on details.

You have to ask yourself this question:

"If this shard does happen, and it is not an exact copy of _________ publish or _________ date, will I still play on it?"

Before you answer, consider that your choices are current UO, free shards, or whatever this shard ends up being. Does whatever _________ is still seem that important to you??

That's why we have the sticky thread. It outlines what we all came together to agree were the ideal conditions for a Classic Shard. Is that list an exact copy of a T2A shard? No. But that's okay, because it is much closer than what is live now.

Remember...the future is ours to shape...we need to learn from the past, not be slaves to it.

I don't believe that we have to be slaves to anything... yet I dislike the idea of catering to anybody in either direction. My suggestion to set a solid date/time/publish just aims to reduce any 'but I really want (don't want) XYZ' not shoot for some adherence to anything in particular.

And that's a BAD THING?

Making the most amount of players happy is key yet I want to stay away from a slippery slope issue. Making players 'happy' resulted in UO's downfall.