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Classic shard.

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L

Longest Journey

Guest
Well...did someone else make their decisions for them?

Seriously! They are the ones that decided to prey upon the innocent...no one else.

Let them just deal with the consequences of their choices. If they are really as 'l337' as they think they are...they won't have to worry about it...right?
True. Alright, I agree, stat loss on death. And, perhaps some sort of penalty where they cannot rez for X amount of time depending on their X amount of kills. Couple that with the stat loss and you'd have a pretty effective system.


Really??





I am feeling lazy right now, so I will not dig up the post I made about taking gold rewards out of the bounty system, and replacing it with a points based system that allows bounty hunters to select from unique items that are only different in aesthetic appearance.

Really man...do your homework! rolleyes:

(just kidding with ya!)
I must have missed that one. Alright, sure, that sounds good. However, you'd have to add in things like those items deteiorate, can be looted, cant be used by reds and disipated like the chaos and order shields did when someone who wasnt in a chaos or order guild tried to equip them.

Good work.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
I'll stop the ranting because this thread does not need anymore of it, it should be about gathering players info. I'm sorry, just annoyed I got to play a great game for 6 years then spent longer than 6 years waiting to play it again
Oh no. No you don't! Do not stop ranting! Do not stop caring!

We need players like you! Even if you don't realize it, your voice is being heard...we all are!

Never give up...never stop ranting...never stop caring...and never stop supporting the cause!

All of us, even though we are divided by details...we are all that is left of a once great community...

...and one day, one way or another, we WILL find that again!
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
I just tell things like they are. The developers have to stop being so vague with things and just finally give a definitive answer either way: Yes or no.

No more maybes, no more we are thinking about it, no more coyness.

Just straight up answers.

They say they want whats best for UO? Then learn to listen. We want a T2A classic server with appropriate fixes and upgrades.


How hard is that to understand?
Well said!!
 

Petra Fyde

Peerless Chatterbox
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
A few posts have been removed. Keep it polite people please. I have no tollerance for the theory that you need to be rude to 'tell it like it is'. You are free to call a spade, a spade. It is not acceptable to call it a [censored] shovel. Personal attacks, ie name calling, is a breach of RoC.
 

Derium of ls

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
A few posts have been removed. Keep it polite people please. I have no tollerance for the theory that you need to be rude to 'tell it like it is'. You are free to call a spade, a spade. It is not acceptable to call it a [censored] shovel. Personal attacks, ie name calling, is a breach of RoC.

Thank you :thumbup1:
 

Dakkon Blackblade

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
To attempt to get things back on track, I would like to reach out and ask Cal we have speculated and narrowed down what it is those of us on the forum would like to see in a classic shard with regards to the big issues, but is there anyway possible you could give us a rough draft of anything we can do to make this thing closer to being reality?

IE: The suggestion I made earlier about doing up a questionnaire? It would just be nice to have a bit of direction is all seeing as how we need your stamp on it before any of it actually means anything. :bowdown:
 

Derium of ls

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
to try and get this back where it needs to be, I think the server should be a clone of 1998 with very few updates, see how it goes and work from there.

Just like UO shut down their forums and made stratics their gateway to UO players thoughts, maybe we here could start a classic UO sub forum where we post our thoughts and work from there once it's live.

the cost of making a 1998 server with the same code (updated to block out the dupes they now know of course) would really be small, very small actually.

thoughts?
 

Derium of ls

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
To attempt to get things back on track, I would like to reach out and ask Cal we have speculated and narrowed down what it is those of us on the forum would like to see in a classic shard with regards to the big issues, but is there anyway possible you could give us a rough draft of anything we can do to make this thing closer to being reality?

IE: The suggestion I made earlier about doing up a questionnaire? It would just be nice to have a bit of direction is all seeing as how we need your stamp on it before any of it actually means anything. :bowdown:

you beat me by less than a minute! haha
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Small cost is a completely relative term.

Small compared to what? Game intake in 1999, Game intake now, or EA's total revenue?

Knowing what I know about EA...their revenue is INSANE. They could launch a classic shard for 1/10000th of what they will spend hyping NBA LIVE! 2011...but that is a totally different group.
 

Derium of ls

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Small cost is a completely relative term.

Small compared to what? Game intake in 1999, Game intake now, or EA's total revenue?

Knowing what I know about EA...their revenue is INSANE. They could launch a classic shard for 1/10000th of what they will spend hyping NBA LIVE! 2011...but that is a totally different group.

to get it up and running? I would say very small, how many free servers are there out there? now the cost to maintain is not a small amount. But I bet if you add up all the paid time Devs have spent talking about it, they could have gotten it hosted ;)

but again, get it going live, give it 3 months and see how it does. if it fails, shut it down. I know if they wanted to close say LS people would be maaaaad, of course! cause they can't transfer their home, or everything they own to a different server, but if EA lets us know that bringing up a classic server is an experiment, then at least we were warned.

I think they are looking at it like this, most of us already pay to play, to them we would just be switching servers and they wouldn't make money off that, I think they still fail to see the new subs they would get from long gone players
 
L

Longest Journey

Guest
Small cost is a completely relative term.

Small compared to what? Game intake in 1999, Game intake now, or EA's total revenue?

Knowing what I know about EA...their revenue is INSANE. They could launch a classic shard for 1/10000th of what they will spend hyping NBA LIVE! 2011...but that is a totally different group.
It may be a different group, but the thing is, people have been telling the EA teams over the years, we want a classic server. Its a no miss. All they need to do is set up the servers, get the word out, and they'll see some serious returns.

The people who will buy NBA LIVE 2011 never told that games developers what they want. In actuality, NBA LIVE is more of a gamble than the UO classic servers. Thats where the UO team has an advantage. They have over a decade of feedback TELLING them what their target audience wants.

All seems pretty simple to me. Give the people what they want.
 
L

Longest Journey

Guest
'Cause I was a bad girl...
Hmm...well...anyway, the point still remains. They have been told what a lot of players who want to return want to return to. It doesnt get any simpler than that.

What do they have to lose at this point? The AOS shards that people are already quitting? A game thats severely bleeding accounts?

Its a no risk situation. Either the classic shards succeed and the game picks up....or they fail and they are right back where they started.

The odds of going with classic servers are better than continuing trying to push AOS content no one wants.
 

Derium of ls

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
we do pretty much have the major details hammer out right? just some small ones people are going back and forth on?
 
L

Longest Journey

Guest
we do pretty much have the major details hammer out right? just some small ones people are going back and forth on?
Pretty much, yeah. Stat loss for reds on death and improved bounty system *nods to morgana*, T2A rulesets, Items, weapons, armor, skills, Britannia and the lost lands, T2A loot tables.

Bascially, if the developers want a tangible guideline to follow for the classic server, all they need to do is follow The Second Age Strategy guide by Prima Games.

Theres a bunch of them for sale on Amazon.com.

http://www.amazon.com/Ultima-Online-Age-Primas-Official-Strategy/dp/0761517715/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270796476&sr=8-1-spell

There you go. Hey, they can stay under budget. Look! Theres one for $2.15 USD! Slightly used, but the price is right!
 

Derium of ls

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Pretty much, yeah. Stat loss for reds on death and improved bounty system *nods to morgana*, T2A rulesets, Items, weapons, armor, skills, Britannia and the lost lands, T2A loot tables.

Bascially, if the developers want a tangible guideline to follow for the classic server, all they need to do is follow The Second Age Strategy guide by Prima Games.

Theres a bunch of them for sale on Amazon.com.

http://www.amazon.com/Ultima-Online-Age-Primas-Official-Strategy/dp/0761517715/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270796476&sr=8-1-spell

There you go. Hey, they can stay under budget. Look! Theres one for $2.15 USD! Slightly used, but the price is right!

unreal that there is 29 of those for sale haha, I'm going to buy one and mail it to Cal ;)
 
L

Longest Journey

Guest
Soooo, anyway, we could break it down like this?:


-The Second Age era w/ necessary bug and glitch fixes
-Britannia and the Lost Lands
-Stat loss and long term murder counts for reds (stat loss on death)
-T2A Item system (Vanq/Ruin magic weapons, Invul/hardening magic armor, magic wands staves, jewelery, boots, capes, etc.)
-T2A skill and stat caps (700.0 skill point pool, 225 stat point pool)
-T2A magic system
-Stat and skill controls (IE ability to set skills/stats to raise, lower and lock)
-Chaos and Order Guilds with proper fixes (lord/lady requisites removed)
-Guild Stones
-more Stackable items (IE Potions)
-**Crafting Upgrades (See below)
-T2A housing and rule sets

**Crafting upgrades are as follows:

-Tailors will be able to make bone armor as well as repair it along with leather armor

-Bow crafters will be able to repair bows

-Carpenters will be able to craft all staff weapons as well as clubs and repair them along with wooden shields

-potential addition of Ilshenar later on.


-No Neon colors
-no runic tools
-no BoDs
-no character transfers, to or from classic server(s)
-no ethereal mounts
-no power scrolls
-no AOS content, period
-No Trammel
-No Malas
-No Tokuno
-No Mondain's Legacy Content
-No Stygian Abyss Content
-NO ELVES
-No Gargoyles
-no control slots for tamers or mages
-no repair contracts
-no bless deeds or blessed items
-no factions
-no custom housing



All of the makings of fine classic servers.
 

Derium of ls

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I would think that server birth/monthly spawn items are a MUST. they are a huge history of UO now, and rares market was yet another great thing for people to get into. I would also suggest that they do not make more items craftable that use to be server births. We need more than just daily up rares IMHO.

to be honest, not having server births would be a deal breaker to me, I'd tolerate Tram before locked down server births/monthly. I've spent 13 years tracking those buggers down, and of course every major patch they destroy yet another one *sigh*

Take a look at how big Rares Fest is, if those people in the rares forums knew they had a chance to get 100% non-duped true rares again, that would be a huge plus

A true rares market like that would be the Telling sign of a dupe, there would only be for example two covered chairs, if a third one EVER showed up, then we would know 100%.

I think that's a good enough arguement ;)


Also, don't forget NO STUPID BRIGHT COLORS! the Black dye tub was enough to last us a loooong time, I'd deal with that. But as soon as I see an ice colored anything on someone, I'm slamming my head into the keyboard ;)
 
D

Der Rock

Guest
LOL LOL LOL

IF EA/Mythic has a Graduate Business Psychologist...he/she should read this thread...
most,realy most arguments in this thread are so absurd and laughable....every cent spent for a "classic" shard is a waste of money........

sad Cal put some words to this subject and reheat the theme....

folk,this theme is DEAD....realise the presence and forget about the times you got 20$ for a mil.

:)
 
M

Megilhir

Guest
This isn't meant to be a butt kiss or anything, and it is totally off topic, but is anyone else blown away by the clear evidence these days that we are being listened to? I've never experienced this with any other dev team, ever. Hell, not even my old pnp DM's used to obviously listen to as much input as this dev team is.

Just kudos, and thanks. I don't care whether you agree, or disagree with me on anything, it's just nice to know that you all care, and that we are all being listened to... :)
I am not blown away.

One day while assigned to work for a General Offcier he took time to "mentor" and develop my junior Field Grade self (I was a Mjaor at the time).

He said: "Well always ask the enlisted their opinion and then do what you had planned anyway. At least they believe they have been listened too."

Pompous and disassociative much?

And no, all officers are not scum nor are all enlisted, in actuallity ignorance knows no rank.

Saying one is listening is nothing.
Taking action and doing something is.
 

Dakkon Blackblade

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
-The Second Age era w/ necessary bug and glitch fixes
-Britannia and the Lost Lands
-Stat loss and long term murder counts for reds (stat loss on death)
-T2A Item system (Vanq/Ruin magic weapons, Invul/hardening magic armor, magic wands staves, jewelery, boots, capes, etc.)
-T2A skill and stat caps (700.0 skill point pool, 225 stat point pool)
-T2A magic system
-Stat and skill controls (IE ability to set skills/stats to raise, lower and lock)
-Chaos and Order Guilds with proper fixes (lord/lady requisites removed)
-Guild Stones
-more Stackable items (IE Potions)
-**Crafting Upgrades (See below)
-T2A housing and rule sets

**Crafting upgrades are as follows:

-Tailors will be able to make bone armor as well as repair it along with leather armor

-Bow crafters will be able to repair bows

-Carpenters will be able to craft all staff weapons as well as clubs and repair them along with wooden shields

-potential addition of Ilshenar later on.


-no runic tools
-no BoDs
-no character transfers, to or from classic server(s)
-no ethereal mounts
-no power scrolls
-no AOS content, period
-No Trammel
-No Malas
-No Tokuno
-No Mondain's Legacy Content
-No Stygian Abyss Content
-NO ELVES
-No Gargoyles
-no control slots for tamers or mages
-no repair contracts
-no bless deeds or blessed items
-no factions
-no custom housing
I think we have all mostly agreed that this is the direction we would like to go in, yes.


EA/Mythic has a Graduate Business Psychologist...he/she should read this thread...
most,realy most arguments in this thread are so absurd and laughable....every cent spent for a "classic" shard is a waste of money........

sad Cal put some words to this subject and reheat the theme....

folk,this theme is DEAD....realise the presence and forget about the times you got 20$ for a mil.
Sorry you feel this way, but there are a lot of non classic shard threads on the forum, Petra can you do something to discourage these kinds of posts? I don't think anyone has a problem with criticism but posts like these just start arguments and derail the thread.
 

Dakkon Blackblade

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I would think that server birth/monthly spawn items are a MUST. they are a huge history of UO now, and rares market was yet another great thing for people to get into. I would also suggest that they do not make more items craftable that use to be server births. We need more than just daily up rares IMHO.

to be honest, not having server births would be a deal breaker to me, I'd tolerate Tram before locked down server births/monthly. I've spent 13 years tracking those buggers down, and of course every major patch they destroy yet another one *sigh*

Take a look at how big Rares Fest is, if those people in the rares forums knew they had a chance to get 100% non-duped true rares again, that would be a huge plus

A true rares market like that would be the Telling sign of a dupe, there would only be for example two covered chairs, if a third one EVER showed up, then we would know 100%.

I think that's a good enough arguement


Also, don't forget NO STUPID BRIGHT COLORS! the Black dye tub was enough to last us a loooong time, I'd deal with that. But as soon as I see an ice colored anything on someone, I'm slamming my head into the keyboard
I understand what you mean about the importance of rares, I had quite a collection myself before I left the game, but to go as far to say it's a deal breaker seems to be going a bit overboard in the realm of concessions.

Don't get me wrong I really want rares, I like to collect them as well, it's just when we are talking about little things here or there we may not get we have to be realistic when we talk about things that are deal breaking, well just my opinion anyways.

I completely and fully mirror the no neon colors sentiment, the few times I did log in after AOS I always felt like I was on an acid trip or something seeing all those strange colors.
 

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
So, its either:

"Yes, we are working on classic servers and trying to find a way to implement them"

Or

"No, we have no intention to now or ever put in classic servers"
You know comments like these do not help at all, neither you or I have a clue what is going on behind closed doors with the devs, have you stopped for a moment to think maybe they have said all they are allowed to say on the topic at the moment?
Saying one is listening is nothing.
Taking action and doing something is.
First off, I think what we've seen from this dev team recently shows that they are not only listening, but they are actually acting on what they hear. And maybe this is all hot air and empty promises again, but it doesn't feel that way. Something is different. We've never had a dev team interact with the player base the way this one is.

Second, they have to be super careful what they say. It's really a political mine field when they say anything at all. If they offer positive feedback to someone who posts on these boards, suddenly they are playing favourites, and every tiny thing they say is analyzed, parsed, and often interpreted in the worst possible light.

If they drop a hint on anything before it is cast in stone, the boards go berserk, and if for some reason it doesn't work out and they have to change plans, suddenly they have a thousand raging clients tearing them to shreds. The tiniest thing they post, if it backfires, can lead to a wave of discontent, or in some cases, provide cheaters and exploiters with a tactical advantage.

I think they've said as much as they can for now on this subject, and maybe they've already said more than they should. I think everyone needs to relax a bit and let go of the angst and try offering positive suggestions for what they would like to see on a classic shard.

The reason I haven't offered any specific ideas with regard to a classic shard is that this isn't my baby. I'll at the very least create a character and check it out if one is created, but I doubt it will ever be my primary shard, and I don't have a really strong opinion on the subject. It's those that really care about the topic that have to keep this thread on track and not let it devolve into character assassination and raging.

I was initially dead against the idea, but I'm not anymore. I had some specific concerns, and I've raised them, now it's up to the rest of you to discuss the details, and at the same time I think, cut the devs some slack. I really think this is a new era we're entering. I'm not exactly sure why or how, but it definitely feels like it.

Of course maybe I'm just letting my optimism carry me away, but what can I say? Being manic has it's benefits, at least you're wildly happy some of the time... ;)
 
D

Der Rock

Guest
EA/Mythic has a Graduate Business Psychologist...he/she should read this thread...
most,realy most arguments in this thread are so absurd and laughable....every cent spent for a "classic" shard is a waste of money........

sad Cal put some words to this subject and reheat the theme....

folk,this theme is DEAD....realise the presence and forget about the times you got 20$ for a mil.
Sorry you feel this way, but there are a lot of non classic shard threads on the forum, Petra can you do something to discourage these kinds of posts? I don't think anyone has a problem with criticism but posts like these just start arguments and derail the thread.

my point is valid !
even if the DEV´s only think about a "classic" whatever........ they spent time....
time they dont have.......EC client is far from ready............
thinking of such things like "classic" have to be shifted on the end off all !!!!


show facts ! make it fact that a classic server would be a win win situation for uo..
bring 1000 NEW(Returner)paying costomers to siege and make a online demonstration


WE have enough DEAD shards..we dont need more !!!!!!!
 

Dakkon Blackblade

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
my point is valid !
even if the DEV´s only think about a "classic" whatever........ they spent time....
time they dont have.......EC client is far from ready............
thinking of such things like "classic" have to be shifted on the end off all !!!!


show facts ! make it fact that a classic server would be a win win situation for uo..
bring 1000 NEW(Returner)paying costomers to siege and make a online demonstration


WE have enough DEAD shards..we dont need more !!!!!!!
With all due respect it isn't up to any of us to say the devs don't have time for this or that. Also asking me to show facts before I have the means to do so is facetious.

What we are working on here is the foundational idea for a classic shard that we can send off to Cal and company for approval. Bringing players to Siege would not prove anything, because the ruleset we are campaigning for is vastly different than the one on Siege.

I don't plan on going back and forth with these kinds of posters, because I would like to keep momentum going and the more time any of us spend debating this kind of thing the more time we are losing.

I agree with what Llewen was saying that sometimes in our passion for the idea we get so easily baited into responding to this kind of thing and once we start we just get all kinds of derailed and the thread dies off, I don't want that and I don't think most of the others in this thread do.

So lets all just ignore the baiting tactics and keep focused on what we need to do. I would like to see someone like Morgana be the leader here in terms of us doing up a questionnaire or poll to be sent out in the future.

I only say that because she has obviously been campaigning this for a very long time and she has a great deal of passion for the idea as most of us do. I'll gladly help anyway that I can, who else is on board for this?
 
K

Keep Hope Alive

Guest
the cost of making a 1998 server with the same code (updated to block out the dupes they now know of course) would really be small, very small actually.

thoughts?
I like Morgana's idea much earlier in this forum about charging people to play on the Classic Shard. This will generate immediate new revenue for the developers to fund the initial start-up. $20.00, $30.00, even up to $40.00 or $50.00 to upgrade your account to "Classic Shard" status.

Start the Classic Shard in the 1998 T2A era or whatever beginning era with very few additions and updates. Then allow only those with "Classic Shard" status on their accounts who have paid their initial dues to vote on new additions and content to the Classic Shard. The voting can take place either as a prompt when you log onto the classic shard, or there can be a "Classic Shard Members Only" website that you can log on to to cast your vote for changes and additions. We do not want people who never intend to play the shard to have the ability to vote for the content that will be added or changed to the Classic Shard.

Is there really a possibility that EA/Mythic will finally create our Classic Shard? I hope there is.

Keep Hope Alive.

*** EDITED ***

Or...let only those who have paid their "Classic Shard Status" dues be able to vote for any additions/changes to content or place any houses. Those who have not upgraded their accounts to Classic Shard status can still create characters and play on the Classic Shard, but they cannot do any voting on content changes or place a house.
 

Dakkon Blackblade

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I like Morgana's idea much earlier in this forum about charging people to play on the Classic Shard. This will generate immediate new revenue for the developers to fund the initial start-up. $20.00, $30.00, even up to $40.00 or $50.00 to upgrade your account to "Classic Shard" status.
Sorry but for me at least, no can do on the idea of different monthly prices than anyone else, I mean 30-50 especially? I want it to happen as well but guys seriously who has that kind of money to throw down monthly? on the high end that is my net/phone bill for a month.

Now if they want to sell it as a special expansion CD or something along those lines, I have no quarrel with that as a way to raise revenue or a digital download from their website actually to cut production down even more, although imagine a redesigned collectors box/manual/cloth map :p etc.

I would pay for something like that one time 40-50 and then contribute my regular monthly fee, I just feel like charging one group a different monthly sends the wrong message.

If you already meant it as a one time fee then apologies in advance.
 
K

Keep Hope Alive

Guest
Sorry but for me at least, no can do on the idea of different monthly prices than anyone else, I mean 30-50 especially? I want it to happen as well but guys seriously who has that kind of money to throw down monthly? on the high end that is my net/phone bill for a month.

Now if they want to sell it as a special expansion CD or something along those lines, I have no quarrel with that as a way to raise revenue or a digital download from their website actually to cut production down even more, although imagine a redesigned collectors box/manual/cloth map :p etc.

I would pay for something like that one time 40-50 and then contribute my regular monthly fee, I just feel like charging one group a different monthly sends the wrong message.

If you already meant it as a one time fee then apologies in advance.
I absolutely mean it as a "one time fee" to upgrade your UO account to the Classic Shard status which would give you VOTING and HOUSE PLACEMENT rights. Your normal monthly fee after that would be $13.00 or $15.00 or whatever it is.

Keep Hope Alive
 
K

Keep Hope Alive

Guest
All looks great to me :D but the idea of that CD/Box still makes me drool, anyone else?
Classic Shard CD box sounds great to me. Put that cool CLOTH BRITANNIA MAP and UO PENDANT in the box too. Make sure that they stock the shelves with the Classic UO Shard box at your neighborhood Walmart and Best Buy stores.
 
S

SoulStealer A.O

Guest
The Second Age era w/ necessary bug and glitch fixes
-Britannia and the Lost Lands
-Stat loss and long term murder counts for reds (stat loss on death)
-T2A Item system (Vanq/Ruin magic weapons, Invul/hardening magic armor, magic wands staves, jewelery, boots, capes, etc.)
-T2A skill and stat caps (700.0 skill point pool, 225 stat point pool)
-T2A magic system
-Stat and skill controls (IE ability to set skills/stats to raise, lower and lock)
-Chaos and Order Guilds with proper fixes (lord/lady requisites removed)
-Guild Stones
-more Stackable items (IE Potions)
-**Crafting Upgrades (See below)
-T2A housing and rule sets

**Crafting upgrades are as follows:

-Tailors will be able to make bone armor as well as repair it along with leather armor

-Bow crafters will be able to repair bows

-Carpenters will be able to craft all staff weapons as well as clubs and repair them along with wooden shields

-potential addition of Ilshenar later on.


-no runic tools
-no BoDs
-no character transfers, to or from classic server(s)
-no ethereal mounts
-no power scrolls
-no AOS content, period
-No Trammel
-No Malas
-No Tokuno
-No Mondain's Legacy Content
-No Stygian Abyss Content
-NO ELVES
-No Gargoyles
-no control slots for tamers or mages
-no repair contracts
-no bless deeds or blessed items
-no factions
-no custom housing
Looks good. You guys do realize that 1998 T2A was the era without meditation right? Back when we all wore plate. This is fine with me as I loved this era but a lot of folks don't know this, especially ones who have played the freeservers. Feb 1999 had a major update including adding meditation to the game and a few other major updates. Also I don't believe Eval Int was used to add spell damage back then either. The true Tank Mage era.

One thing I would consider adding to this list is the no mount thing. I know it isn't classic true but I've played pre uo:r freeservers with and without mounts and anyone who has can vouch that the ones without are A LOT more fun.

Connections and computers are just way too good now and pre uo:r pvp was not meant tp be fought on the run, running through forests praying you would get a stun off like in uo:r. This was dungeon pvp, fight until you die or recall like a coward ;p

Anyways, it is something that really should be considered, the rest looks good.
 

Dakkon Blackblade

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You guys do realize that 1998 T2A was the era without meditation right? Back when we all wore plate. This is fine with me as I loved this era but a lot of folks don't know this, especially ones who have played the freeservers. Feb 1999 had a major update including adding meditation to the game and a few other major updates. Also I don't believe Eval Int was used to add spell damage back then either. The true Tank Mage era.
Now I don't remember the exact details on when this stuff was implemented, not because I didn't play back then but because after 10 years I only have the greatest memories of my playtime left and not so much all of the little details.

So I went over to second age and found this quote from Derrick the Admin "Meditation was introduced in Feb 2 1999 , 4 months into T2A" Now these guys are known for era accuracy moreso than any other free shard I have seen.

Now passive gains to those skills like anatomy, meditation, and eval din't come in until 2000.

One thing I would consider adding to this list is the no mount thing. I know it isn't classic true but I've played pre uo:r freeservers with and without mounts and anyone who has can vouch that the ones without are A LOT more fun.

Connections and computers are just way too good now and pre uo:r pvp was not meant tp be fought on the run, running through forests praying you would get a stun off like in uo:r. This was dungeon pvp, fight until you die or recall like a coward ;p

Anyways, it is something that really should be considered, the rest looks good.
Nobody individually can say that no mounts can't be considered but the majority of us wouldn't be on board without mounts, I see where you are going with it but really the no mount crowd tends to be the niche pvp only crowd.

But this goes back to what I am saying we all really just have to select the era we want and trust that the devs will hammer out the minor details based loosely on the feedback gotten in this thread and any possible poll, etc.

I think for example the small customizations that people agree on are little things like skill/stat locking and bug fixes that help everyone. The issue arises when we get bogged down in all of these micro details because from every little detail you can imagine there can spring forth an innumerable amount of sub arguments that could take lifetimes to decide.

Besides most of the things that most of us don't want to see in the game is already taken care of by having a T2A era accurate shard. Just how I am seeing it
 
K

Keep Hope Alive

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I started playing UO in April 1998 and I remember there were mounts. I'm all for mounts. I would play without them if I had to, but would vote to put them in completely.

I remember being a newbie to UO in April 1998. I would be out hunting and I would hear the ominous sound of horse hoofs approaching and then a red name would appear onto my screen. Nothing would get the adrenaline flowing more. I was too poor to buy a horse and it was near impossible to find a horse to tame. A red PK on a horse would ride you down if you were unable to HIDE without them seeing where you were hidden at. Those were the good old days.

I hope that we agree to have mounts when our Classic Shard goes live.

Keep Hope Alive.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

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I have to say, the no mounts thing would be a deal breaker for me.

Being able to have a horse (and a house) was probably the single biggest thing that drew me to UO in the first place. I had played Diablo with my brother and one of his friends before UO came out, and when my brother told me about how there would be multiple towns, houses you could own, and horses you could ride...I went and signed up for the beta immediately!

I am a huge fan of horses in real life, so I am probably biased here.


But I do think mounts should be more expensive than they were...and only the following mounts should be included:

- Horses (with all the varieties)
- Nightmares (with all the varieties)
- Ostards (with all the verieties)
- Silver Steeds! (anyone else remember those?)

Definitely no swamp dragons, polar bears, ethereals, etc.

I am on the fence with the llamas...but they wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I just always thought they were a little silly.
 

Dakkon Blackblade

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Alright well it seems like the majority so far on the forum agrees T2A is the direction to proceed in. At this point I'm not really sure where else we can go without a dev chiming in?

Don't mean to sound pushy but we have circled the wagons a lot and as I said focusing to much on the micro details is not really productive in the grand scheme of things. :eyes:
 

Guido_LS

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Alright well it seems like the majority so far on the forum agrees T2A is the direction to proceed in. At this point I'm not really sure where else we can go without a dev chiming in?

Don't mean to sound pushy but we have circled the wagons a lot and as I said focusing to much on the micro details is not really productive in the grand scheme of things. :eyes:
Cal_Mythic said:
Yes we are still discussing it. I can't give you the laundry list of features, but there are actually battles between Bonnie and Derek and I twice a week on how to proceed. I can tell you however, that the priority is to fix what we've set out to do for these next few months ... and to support the plan of rebuilding Magincia ... AND solving the perception and actual impact of speedhackers in the game.

We've made the business case for it a few times, it honestly comes down to committing AND making sure we can support it. I know this doesn't answer the question completely, but please know it's all I can tell you at this time.
That was dated 4/4/10 - HERE. Also, in the same thread -

Actually I want to be very careful with making "empty promises".
It's my opinion that trying to force his hand, when he's already outlined a rough time frame, is a 100% certain way to doom this to /dev/nul. And, FWIW, this isn't just a dev - he's the producer... so his comments carry just a bit more weight. In all honesty, this is the first time I have felt anything close to optimism as it relates to UO and dev relations since, well, ever. These are not the same people that brought us Renaissance, or AoS, or SE. And they have a lot of screwed up things to fix. And I hope I'm not the only one noticing that they are, indeed, fixing things, even if those things aren't always at the top of *OUR* individual priority lists.
 

Dakkon Blackblade

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It's my opinion that trying to force his hand, when he's already outlined a rough time frame, is a 100% certain way to doom this to /dev/nul. And, FWIW, this isn't just a dev - he's the producer... so his comments carry just a bit more weight. In all honesty, this is the first time I have felt anything close to optimism as it relates to UO and dev relations since, well, ever. These are not the same people that brought us Renaissance, or AoS, or SE. And they have a lot of screwed up things to fix. And I hope I'm not the only one noticing that they are, indeed, fixing things, even if those things aren't always at the top of *OUR* individual priority lists.
Begging the pardon but I am not attempting to force anyones hand, I simply missed the post that you quoted as I was late to the discussion and did not read everything.

I am also very optimistic about this team, from what I have seen so far they seem very competent, I actually have thanked Cal several times in the thread just for the fact that we have this thread and that he is following it at all.

To the current team keep on doing the good work you are doing, I am impressed for the first time in ten years.
 

Derium of ls

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I understand what you mean about the importance of rares, I had quite a collection myself before I left the game, but to go as far to say it's a deal breaker seems to be going a bit overboard in the realm of concessions.

Don't get me wrong I really want rares, I like to collect them as well, it's just when we are talking about little things here or there we may not get we have to be realistic when we talk about things that are deal breaking, well just my opinion anyways.

I completely and fully mirror the no neon colors sentiment, the few times I did log in after AOS I always felt like I was on an acid trip or something seeing all those strange colors.
To me it's a deal breaker because a lot of what I think about a classic server is the true Rares

EA a while ago took a stance to be anti-rares and I have never understood why, they turned off server births (lake austin) shut down most if not all bi-weekly, monthly and tri-monthly spawns, and they keep making crafted items the same as server births.

So to me it goes hand in hand the way they have been destroying UO in other ways, it was something MANY people enjoyed, but not a lot of people enjoy it, but we are all terrified of the next one they will ruin.

Considering in order for them to NOT have true rares it will take extra effort on their part, I'd be pissed. means they bring us a classic server, yet spend the time to still destroy that.
 

Derium of ls

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LOL LOL LOL

IF EA/Mythic has a Graduate Business Psychologist...he/she should read this thread...
most,realy most arguments in this thread are so absurd and laughable....every cent spent for a "classic" shard is a waste of money........

sad Cal put some words to this subject and reheat the theme....

folk,this theme is DEAD....realise the presence and forget about the times you got 20$ for a mil.

:)

EXACTLY!! we were getting $20 per mil long after AoS hit, we want back the days of $200 per mil!

now why did you speak out against a classic shard, then tell us to forget post-AoS times? are you telling us to just leave UO? Or do you just have no idea what you're talking about.
 

Derium of ls

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my point is valid !
even if the DEV´s only think about a "classic" whatever........ they spent time....
time they dont have.......EC client is far from ready............
thinking of such things like "classic" have to be shifted on the end off all !!!!


show facts ! make it fact that a classic server would be a win win situation for uo..
bring 1000 NEW(Returner)paying costomers to siege and make a online demonstration


WE have enough DEAD shards..we dont need more !!!!!!!


why would 1,000 people pay EA to demonstrate they want a classic server? and what does Siege have to do with that?? are you just trying to get people to come to your server? lol, Troll.

and if people did that, it's the opposite of protesting to a company! when your company treats you poorly you go on strike, not offer to work for free. People stopped giving EA money cause they didn't like the new UO, it would be ******** for these people to give EA money and not even log onto the game...
 
E

Evlar

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Not that I've been watching this whole thread or anything :)
Aparently, you dont remember that this has happened in the past. Developers have given vague mentionings of classic servers, gotten people's hopes up, then turned around and not delivered. Thats something Im tired of seeing. It seems every new developement team that has come in with UO have done this and its getting old.

So this little attention youre so happy about, its not trust worthy. The coyness and vague answers and tounge in cheek need to end. These developers need to give a definitive answer as to their intentions of a classic server. Just saying "Oh, we're thinking about it" isnt good enough.

Personally, I think Cal just mentioned classic servers to get people to re-sub to UO in some lame attempt at trying to boost profits, make it look like the game is getting people back, but its all under false pretenses.

But thats just my theory on it.

But the point is, the time for games, giggles, girly coyness are over. Its time for straight answers and clearly definied intent.

Thus, I say it again.

Its either:

"Yes, we are planning on releasing classic servers, we just need to determine the details of them"
In which case I would be back quicker than Eusane Bolt can run the 100 metres ;)



"No, we have no intention of making classic servers"

Stop messing with people.
In which case I'll be staying gone.

I cancelled my accounts the other day because, perhaps misunderstanding, your two word comment seemed to reek of sarcasm and demeaning towards those who have been seriously discussing the potential of a classic shard.

I had been paying my subscriptions since 1999 until earlier this week, so disgruntled was I that there didn't seem to be any further serious input from yourself or the other devs regarding a classic shard.

I do realise that I may have been hasty in cancelling my two accounts, but continued frustration does tend to lead to such rash decisions from time to time.

Cal and the team, please don't take this as a personal slight towards the work you have done since your involvement with UO, but what we have now, just isn't to the tastes of a considerable group of players, including myself.

Would it be true of me to believe that all the current dev team came to UO after AoS was implemented? If this is the case, then you cannot (and should not) be blamed for what's happened post-AoS changes. You've simply picked up the ball and kept running in the direction it was heading. For what it's worth, you've made some excellent additions to the game, which many of us will agree, have been great implementations. Of that there's no question. It's simply the case that you have a group of mostly veteran players who prefer the "old" ways more. We simply believe that the overall gameplay, community and challenge was much greater.

Mindful of that, I would be interested to see if any of the current dev team played UO pre-AoS and if so, get your thoughts on both the positives and negatives, as you viewed them.

I think that at this stage, through more interaction with you, we can fully understand your thoughts, intentions, what you're trying to do, what you hope to do, what you think are good ideas and bad ideas (as mentioned and discussed here), basically more of what you actually think about a classic option for UO. It doesn't even have to be any "formal" comments. Just let us know your thoughts.

That way, people like myself won't get all huffy and make rash decisions and stomp off annoyed... :sad3:

Thanks.

Evlar :thumbup1:
 

Dakkon Blackblade

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Well my thing is this, I share in a lot of the frustration that other like minded players have dealt with for the better part of ten years. But I just refuse to target anyone and say "Well unless you give me what I want now, I'm out" This shard is not going to be crafted by people who will leave at the slightest drop of some tiny thing they wanted/didn't want.

In the end if this shard becomes reality it will be because people were willing to compromise and work with the devs while taking other potential players into the equation, we all have the tendency to not see opinions beyond our little clustered group in the forum.

But we have to remember at least from a developer point of view that shards aren't designed in a vacuum. Tunnel vision isn't going to cut it, there is a possibility that it won't be completely era accurate, but even if that is the case are we really going to say well that's not what we wanted so lets take our ball and go home.

We also have no clue how much what we want will actually influence the final product if there is to be one at all.

If we end up doing that after Cal and the team draw up something that may be marginally different than what we wanted down to the most tiny detail, you can guarantee the entire idea of a classic shard forever goes down the drain.

Because then people who are opposed to the idea have every right to come back and say "yeah they tried it before but those guys wouldn't work with the devs lol lol lol /pwnt"
 

Derium of ls

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Well my thing is this, I share in a lot of the frustration that other like minded players have dealt with for the better part of ten years. But I just refuse to target anyone and say "Well unless you give me what I want now, I'm out" This shard is not going to be crafted by people who will leave at the slightest drop of some tiny thing they wanted/didn't want.

In the end if this shard becomes reality it will be because people were willing to compromise and work with the devs while taking other potential players into the equation, we all have the tendency to not see opinions beyond our little clustered group in the forum.

But we have to remember at least from a developer point of view that shards aren't designed in a vacuum. Tunnel vision isn't going to cut it, there is a possibility that it won't be completely era accurate, but even if that is the case are we really going to say well that's not what we wanted so lets take our ball and go home.

We also have no clue how much what we want will actually influence the final product if there is to be one at all.

If we end up doing that after Cal and the team draw up something that may be marginally different than what we wanted down to the most tiny detail, you can guarantee the entire idea of a classic shard forever goes down the drain.

Because then people who are opposed to the idea have every right to come back and say "yeah they tried it before but those guys wouldn't work with the devs lol lol lol /pwnt"

my stance with the rares is if they make a classic server and not allow them to be in there, then that's intentionally taking something AWAY from how UO use to be. As I said, I'd like a clone of a 98ish server with a few updates. Not a clone, then before it's even put up, they already start taking things away from us. they did that before, and that landed us where we are now.

to me that's no different than if they removed houses, or the taming skill. and tried to sell it as a classic shard.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

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In the end if this shard becomes reality it will be because people were willing to compromise and work with the devs while taking other potential players into the equation, we all have the tendency to not see opinions beyond our little clustered group in the forum.

But we have to remember at least from a developer point of view that shards aren't designed in a vacuum. Tunnel vision isn't going to cut it, there is a possibility that it won't be completely era accurate, but even if that is the case are we really going to say well that's not what we wanted so lets take our ball and go home.

We also have no clue how much what we want will actually influence the final product if there is to be one at all.

If we end up doing that after Cal and the team draw up something that may be marginally different than what we wanted down to the most tiny detail, you can guarantee the entire idea of a classic shard forever goes down the drain.

Because then people who are opposed to the idea have every right to come back and say "yeah they tried it before but those guys wouldn't work with the devs lol lol lol /pwnt"
You make some extremely valid points here.

One of the reasons I keep coming back to a list of 'must haves' vs. 'debatables' is because I think that if the devs get the message than we want X,Y, and Z...but A,B,C and D would be nice...but not necessary, then hopefully we can help to steer this into the right direction, without it turning into a confusing, vague, set of requirements that satisfies no one. Certainly, there are going to be some people that are not satisfied, no matter what is done. But I think that the core of a Classic Shard is what needs to be backed by the community...not the details. The details will be sorted out over time. Things may or may not be in on launch day that may or may not need to be in or out. The original launch of the game didn't have many things that were added shortly after launch (like bank boxes)...and it has been a steady evolution since then. Not everything that has gone into that evolution past a certain point has been bad for the game. I can see why some of these things are desirable to some people. But in the end, the question we all need to ask ourselves is...if we get X,Y, and Z...A, not B, too much C, and no D...is it better than what we have now?

I have a hard time imagining that it wouldn't be.
 

Dakkon Blackblade

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Well to be fair now that I've read the post that Guido quoted, it looks like even if this thing is happening it's at least a couple of months away before we even get down to real business.

I don't blame the team for taking their time on this as it really isn't a huge priority for the mainstream production shard players, not compared to bug fixes and solving the speed hack issue.

I have waited ten years for this to even be a possibility, what's a few more months really? And while it has been frustrating at times, I don't turn to free shards for a simple reason, they never seem to recreate the community and most of them are filled with ranks of players who caused the majority of the issues in the old days.

When I look at it that way it seems like we have an awful lot of time to kill, so we may as well keep plowing away, the details are now going to be what keeps us occupied for a while.

Something else I've been thinking about since I crossed over to Marks Heroes vs Villains thread and posted is this. If we end up having to implement the more extreme anti-griefing measures this "classic shard" could be the blueprint to take another look at the Golden Age of UO and see how it might be implemented in favor of the renaissance.

Really just an enormous hypothetical on my part, but it would be so awesome if the new team way later down the road, say in a year or so depending on subscription numbers, could look and say maybe it's time we take a step away from the split world design and go with something similar to that old classic shard moving forward.

I know it's highly unlikely when looking at it from todays perspective but perhaps it could crack the door open slightly when speaking of UOs future direction.

Of course it would mean disregarding everything from Ren onwards which is why I say it's pretty much a guaranteed no, obviously one of the biggest hurdles there is the fact that everyone has paid for those expansions/content, theres really no way to reimburse that.

Just food for thought.
 
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