Classic shard.

[Keep Hope Alive]

Of all the subscriptions left in UO how many (by percentage) actually WANT a clasic shard?

Here is an easy solution. All UO need do is add a simple voting line of code with the log in screen for a limited time, say, a month.

Would you play on a Classic Shard? Yes. No.

Then they have the data to suggest if it is worth doing for their OVERALL customer base.

My problem with this is that I do not have an active EA/Mythic UO subscription at the moment, so people like myself would be unable to cast a vote. There are certainly hundreds of people like me who would love to re-activate an EA/Mythic account to play on a classic shard if there were one. I play on a player-run shard at the moment and love it (T2A ruleset) - I even got my 7 year old son playing (shame on me).

Keep Hope Alive.

 

[Cogniac]

This thread is beginning to enter Threadzilla territory.

We just need some people to start derailling things with lolcats.

 

[omgmir]

This thread is beginning to enter Threadzilla territory.

We just need some people to start derailling things with lolcats.

 

[Evlar]

...speaking of which, who else preferred the days when other player races were a role-play option?

 

[Ray_]

What?!!

Oh come on now...

...not having pre-casting is NOT the same as having Trammel.

And they call me a drama queen.

It sort of is. "bring back precasting" was our battlecry for years until it was added back in for pub 15 (I think), and it was glorious. Precasting = pre-UO:R. There are certain brought to mind when one thinks of a "classic shard". No Trammel is the major one. Pre-UO:R combat is the runner-up.

If there's no precasting and insta-hit, it's not a pre-UO:R shard. Period. It's that simple for many of us that have been asking for a revert or a classic shard for TEN YEARS.

No drama, just stating the facts as they've been for the last decade.

 

[Ray_]

your cautionary statement has me pretty scared, gonna moonstone over to trammel now.

I lol'd

 

[Ray_]

For what it is worth, I have said MANY times that I am 100% okay with a pure day 1 launch shard, a T2A shard, and May 3rd, 2000 shard.

You might have me confused with someone that thinks Trammel was a good idea...but I can assure, that is not me.

It's not hard. Jan 1 2000. Almost everything after could be left off and it would be awesome.

The point that a lot of you are missing is that EA's *only* motivation for staging a classic shard is to bring back old customers. Shifting current ones (like all of you) from one shard to another is a net loss. They need new/returning people.

Returning players will be looking for a classic shard, not a custom shard. They'll expect certain things and when they read that their favorite feature was changed or dropped, they won't sign up. Trying to anticipate the reverse is nearly impossible. EA will have a tough time figuring out which features to change/drop/update in order to get the most players to return, and they'd be well served to ignore pretty much everyone in this thread. Not because you're dumb or trammies or anything negative, but simply because you're an existing player. You stuck around through all the bad changes and lack the perspective of an ex-customer.

Anecdotal evidence: 2 different friends have said today that they'd go back after 5+ years away for "pre-uo:r with no dupes." I asked them, separately, if there were any dealbreakers. They both named several of the same items.

There is merit in having a pristine classic shard, is all I'm saying.


Edit: sorry for triple post

 

[Tanivar]

I asked them, separately, if there were any dealbreakers. They both named several of the same items.

What did they name? Particularly what did both name?

 

[SoulStealer A.O]

Pre Casting and instant hit is what defines a pre uo:r shard. That's for sure

 

[Ray_]

What did they name? Particularly what did both name?

From what I remember:

1) no Trammel
2) Pre-ren combat. This includes the following, among others:

A. Precasting
B. Insta-hit
C. Old armor system (no dex loss for non-plate armor, severe med penalty for all armor)
D. No special moves​

3) No vet rewards - ethy mounts are the offenders here. Don't think anyone cares about black dye tubs, statues, etc. No neon, of course.
4) No item bless deeds - CBDs are fine
5) Tougher skill gain ("like before powerhour" was the quote)
6) Limited stam pool for mounts ("and none of those new mounts, just horses, ostards, llamas, and nightmares")

Those are just the dealbreakers. There were a bunch of things like old-school recall rules (could recall/gate at any time) that they'd maybe be able to look past, but was still very important to them.


Both Tyler and Rob would prefer no statloss and old style house security, but those aren't breaking points. I did mention this silly "statloss on death" idea, and they responded just like I did: that's a terrible idea and might prevent us from playing that shard.

I mean, they just want what the average pre-UO:R advocate has always wanted: to play on a pre-UO:R shard run by EA - stable, supported (meaning customer service), and secure.

 

[Derium of ls]

I mean, they just want what the average pre-UO:R advocate has always wanted: to play on a pre-UO:R shard run by EA - stable, supported (meaning customer service), and secure.

all of these posts amounts to exactly what you just said here.

 

[Tanivar]

Both Tyler and Rob would prefer no statloss and old style house security, but those aren't breaking points.

There has to be some meaningful penalty for PKing or there will be few others than PKers on the shard, and they would soon leave again because there will be no prey to hunt.

PKers have to get it through their heads that EA isn't going to waste man/hours setting up a shard that will be another fel ghost town because the Darwin Award winning PKers will just drive any non-PKers off the shard. The non-PKers are not going to pay a monthly fee to be fun for PKers while being prevented from having fun themselves.

The PKers can run around their first month back getting bored because there are no 'sheep' to kill and rob, then likely do what they did 10 years ago, leave the game.

Hopefully EA will just make an AoS free shard and leave Tram in it.

 

[Bc-]

Agreed, if they want Pre Cast PvP then they want Stat Loss because it is the same time period. There was a time inbetween Stat loss being implemented and Trammell where the game was just golden.

It was in a good balance and everyone was having fun, PK's were definitely a lot harder to find, I PKed a lot less after stat loss because the majority of the action was in town. Which I liked.

That time period has to be when UO was at its pinnacle for subscriptions. I don't think they realized what they were doing with Tram. They listened to the squeaky I guess, because the rest of us were having fun. I think it was more about the housing market than anything, seeing how it was impossible to place anything anymore.. I remember that being a huge driving factor.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

Yes lets just put a true to form era accurate T2A shard up and it will settle the matter once and for all. It will be fun for the two-three months it lasts and then it will have the plug pulled when it becomes a ghost shard.

This is a trammys dream come true if it happens, that way they can come back after it fails and say "hey guyz nobody wants da classic shard! dey tried it once and it didn't wurk!"

So yes lets all just throw up an era accurate shard and quickly be reminded of why trammel was formed in the first place, that will show em.

And don't think for a second the small group of friends each of us has that would come back for a shard like this means much to the devs for the following reasons.

1) Completely anecdotal nobody knows if they will actually show
2) Even if the four or five people that post here reguraly brought in twenty friends each it still isn't much in the way of meaningful numbers.

 

[Longest Journey]

Agreed, if they want Pre Cast PvP then they want Stat Loss because it is the same time period. There was a time inbetween Stat loss being implemented and Trammell where the game was just golden.

It was in a good balance and everyone was having fun, PK's were definitely a lot harder to find, I PKed a lot less after stat loss because the majority of the action was in town. Which I liked.

That time period has to be when UO was at its pinnacle for subscriptions. I don't think they realized what they were doing with Tram. They listened to the squeaky I guess, because the rest of us were having fun. I think it was more about the housing market than anything, seeing how it was impossible to place anything anymore.. I remember that being a huge driving factor.

Trammel was EA/OSI's response to EQ trying to offer kid friendly game play. True that housing had a hand in it too. The problem was with people owning multiple houses on a single character. It ate up a lot of land. Limiting houses to one house per account per server only meant people would have to buy extra accounts to place houses.

If land was needed for more houses, then the developers should have just made a new landmass soley for the purpose of placing houses.

 

[Keep Hope Alive]

And don't think for a second the small group of friends each of us has that would come back for a shard like this means much to the devs for the following reasons.

1) Completely anecdotal nobody knows if they will actually show
2) Even if the four or five people that post here reguraly brought in twenty friends each it still isn't much in the way of meaningful numbers.

If EA builds it they will come.

I think there are so few people posting on this thread because it is getting stale. Let's just build the damned Classic Shard already and stop talking about it. But if you look at the number of VIEWS that this thread has had it is pretty numerous. I'm sure that quite a few people come here because they are interested in the commotion about the possibility of a Classic Shard, but they do not take the time to post. Heck, I barely post but I am extremely interested in a Classic Shard becoming a reality. I would cease playing on the free shard that I play on and instantly reactivate my EA accounts (if I can remember the account names). I was never a big poster on Stratics, I always spent my time PLAYING UO. Which is what a lot of people who have been looking at these forums are probably doing. They visit to see what others are saying but would rather spend time playing their free shard or whatever instead of spending a lot of time coming up with a witty post.

I hope they build the Classic Shard.

Keep Hope Alive.

 

[Megilhir]

People, people!

Creative problem solving please?

My poll sugestion was one aspect of inquiry.

UO - use the game review sites. Release a notice. Tell the gaming community AT LARGE that you are considering releasing a Classic Shard and provide a definition.

Then have a 2 week or month long period where all account can come back FREE to vote on it. New (interested) players can get a free trial download to play the game for two weeks and vote.

Things of that nature. Get the word out, use the systems in place, conduct Information Operations within the gaming world.

As far as one vote per e-mail I state: NO!

If someone wishes to PAY for ten thousand account then their opinion and desire outweigh my two accounts (one of which will no longer be renewed as of next Billing cycle.)

Have started playing FALLEN EARTH and it is pretty fun.

These are a couple of broadbased concepts for free. More would require hiring me.

There it is.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

If EA builds it they will come.

They will come, but they won't stay if the shard ends up being an exact era accurate replica.

I think there are so few people posting on this thread because it is getting stale. Let's just build the damned Classic Shard already and stop talking about it. But if you look at the number of VIEWS that this thread has had it is pretty numerous. I'm sure that quite a few people come here because they are interested in the commotion about the possibility of a Classic Shard, but they do not take the time to post. Heck, I barely post but I am extremely interested in a Classic Shard becoming a reality. I would cease playing on the free shard that I play on and instantly reactivate my EA accounts (if I can remember the account names). I was never a big poster on Stratics, I always spent my time PLAYING UO. Which is what a lot of people who have been looking at these forums are probably doing. They visit to see what others are saying but would rather spend time playing their free shard or whatever instead of spending a lot of time coming up with a witty post.

A lot of the views I suspect are from those of us who have been active in this thread, the response times between those active have been pretty crazy for a forum post.

It's a catch 22 really, on one hand everything meaningful that can be said has been said, on the other you stop talking about it and it vanishes, which would likely make some of the forum very happy.

I was never a poster on stratics either when the game was worth playing, but until people realize that an exact era accurate shard is doomed from the start we won't get anywhere meaningful.

People need to stop pretending the problems weren't there, nostalgia does that to people. I keep hearing people say "pks weren't that big a problem" and I'm telling you as a former pk during those days, it got so rediculous at times I had fights with other pks just over territory when it came to killing miners/dungeon runners.

It wasn't uncommon for me to run with five-ten other reds and go on massive kill sprees, was it incredibly fun at the time? yes it was but if you step back and realize why trammel was implemented, you have no alternative but to see the problems for what they were.

But it seems the latest individuals to the discussion just want the days of pre-casting plate wearing tank mages with heavy x-bows killing everything in sight.

If the shard is unwilling to evolve past those times, it's doomed from the get go, it will be fun for a few months but then the frustrated non-pvp crowd will say screw it and remember why they play on production shards.

And I won't blame them one bit at that point, all so that few people who can't let go of the past, can have a few months worth of fun.

 

[popeto]

Hey guys.


I hate to rain on your parade.


but EA will never - ever - ever - ever - ever - ever put out a classic shard.

Over six years ago, EA 'hinted' that they were considering it.
Then rumour was that it was in the works!
It was confirmed! They were contacting other administrators of classic free shards for their input/possible employment opportunities...

then all efforts dissapeared over night.
Speculation grew and a million page thread gained pages every day.
Eventually an EA developer came on stratics forums basically telling us to shove it and they never would release a classic shard.

This was when they had 4x the playerbase.

There is not enough profit for them to bother creating another shard and EA never will never admit that they have completely ruined a game.


I'm SORRY.

but its the truth.

 

[Evlar]

If land was needed for more houses, then the developers should have just made a new landmass soley for the purpose of placing houses.

I think that landmass eventually came and was called "Malas"

Although I've enjoyed working with custom houses of my own, plus working on some for other players and friends since their inception, as soon as bigger houses became available, land space availability was always likely to be a problem.

It's not so much of a problem nowadays though, due to the lower subscription numbers. Upon my last return to UO in early 2009, playing on Great Lakes (one of the better populated servers), I managed to place an 18x18 custom plot within a couple of hours. On Europa, which is also reasonably well populated, I was spoilt for choice for 18x18 spots.

Although it's a bone of contention for some of you, I actually like custom houses, but that's because my own designs were often in keeping with the location or "lore" of where they were placed. I do fully understand what people mean about the eyesores though, with little thought or imagination in their design.

Therefore I would be happy to see some of the larger pre-set house designs available. There are those of us who like to display decorative items/rares, be creative as we used to and make our own decorative creations using standard in-game items (fish tanks, fireplaces and such anyone? ). There's also the need for player communities to congregate in larger properties, for guild meetings, role play or "events" like auctions. I still remember pre-2000 Great Lakes auctions at Impy's, when they were absolutely packed to the rafters every time.

I fully understand the arguments about house hiding being a problem in PvP, therefore for that sole reason, I would vote against any custom housing, using just what was pre-set options, so long as there were selections sizeable enough to encourage the other activities I've mentioned.

For me, if there were to be any changes to the original landmass, then I would suggest that additional space is provided next to all towns. There's always been space right alongside Vesper for example, although not very much. It would be fun to have increased space next to all the towns. Perhaps one way to limit usage, that I would like to have seen if such a concept had been in the game, would have been that only guild leaders could place in these locations, once their numbers surpassed a base number of players. Would have always made sense to me that guild houses were in or next to towns.

I think it's a shame when the debate here always seems to end up back towards PvP, when there was so much more to the game. I did PvP back then, though perhaps not as much as many people who've commented, but it was just a part of the whole picture of the game I loved back then.

Forgive me for harking towards something that's going off at a tangent to the core of what we all agree on, it's just with housing in mind, that "what if" has always been in the back of my mind.

 

[Ray_]

They will come, but they won't stay if the shard ends up being an exact era accurate replica.

Stop saying this as if it was a fact or even provable in the first place.

Watch this:

They will come, and the shard will just continue to grow as word of mouth is spread. It'll end up being the biggest shard, even several years after it's staged.

But it seems the latest individuals to the discussion just want the days of pre-casting plate wearing tank mages with heavy x-bows killing everything in sight.

I don't know why I'm even responding to you since you haven't even read my posts, are putting words in my mouth, and make up statements that suit your position and pose them as facts.

I *just* outlined the basics of pre-ren combat. Here's a sample:
"C. Old armor system (no dex loss for non-plate armor, severe med penalty for all armor)"

There was a time - for about 6 months ending in Jan 2000 - that combat was pretty much perfectly balanced for most builds, something extremely hard to do in a skill-based game. Anyone that was into PvP for several years to include that time period will agree. It's not subjective. If you disagree, you were either bad at PvP or played a bad build - something silly like an archer with no melee or a swords dexer with no resist or a mage thief.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

Hey guys.


I hate to rain on your parade.


but EA will never - ever - ever - ever - ever - ever put out a classic shard.

Over six years ago, EA 'hinted' that they were considering it.
Then rumour was that it was in the works!
It was confirmed! They were contacting other administrators of classic free shards for their input/possible employment opportunities...

then all efforts dissapeared over night.
Speculation grew and a million page thread gained pages every day.
Eventually an EA developer came on stratics forums basically telling us to shove it and they never would release a classic shard.

This was when they had 4x the playerbase.

There is not enough profit for them to bother creating another shard and EA never will never admit that they have completely ruined a game.


I'm SORRY.

but its the truth.

Sad as it is I think this guy has hit the nail on the head. I'm starting to wish they would just let this game slowly die off while developing a sequel to UO, fully 3D with cookie cutter classes, quest grinding, raiding, neon everything, and like a million new mounts to tame.

Oh and fully 3D housing omglulzawesome! with a thousand different tile sets and like an in game wedding system that would be l337, everyone knows non con pvp and interaction is like so 1997 rofl.

I'm sure then we could take wow down

 

[tenduil]

Probably. The lack of meaningful developer comments would lead most of us to believe the above.

 

[Llewen]

There is not enough profit for them to bother creating another shard and EA never will never admit that they have completely ruined a game.

Which brings up an interesting point. For some this debate is about showing EA that the design decisions that have been made with regard to UO since the early years have been wrong. Those who are advocating for a classic shard need to drop that particular crusade.

This should be about growing the player base, and making room for an alternative playstyle, not about trying to make EA look bad. If that is your objective, and you keep pressing that point, you will probably diminish your chances of ever seeing a classic shard become a reality.

 

[Bc-]

Weird, because that is exactly what we did in DAoC to get Mythic to make our THREE Classic shards.

We told them TOA sucks, so they took it out for us and said "here you go, enjoy."

I am telling Mythic AOS sucks, so now they will take it out, give me a server, and say "Enjoy."

No matter what time period they pick, as long as it is pre AOS, will be an absolute hit.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

Stop saying this as if it was a fact or even provable in the first place.

Watch this:

They will come, and the shard will just continue to grow as word of mouth is spread. It'll end up being the biggest shard, even several years after it's staged.

Where have you been for the last ten years buddy? not only is it provable but it is a fact, since you know it's already happened once, or have you forgotten the reason why you play free shards?

I don't know why I'm even responding to you since you haven't even read my posts, are putting words in my mouth, and make up statements that suit your position and pose them as facts.

I *just* outlined the basics of pre-ren combat. Here's a sample:
"C. Old armor system (no dex loss for non-plate armor, severe med penalty for all armor)"

There was a time - for about 6 months ending in Jan 2000 - that combat was pretty much perfectly balanced for most builds, something extremely hard to do in a skill-based game. Anyone that was into PvP for several years to include that time period will agree. It's not subjective. If you disagree, you were either bad at PvP or played a bad build - something silly like an archer with no melee or a swords dexer with no resist or a mage thief.

I don't know why you are either, we obviously don't see eye to eye on the issue and never likely will. PvP has never been close to perfect.

I was very heavily into pvp personally but I strongly disagree with you on what direction pvp needs to go on this shard, all you can counter with is your opinion, you can beat your chest and stomp the ground all you want while dressing your opinion up as fact but that doesn't make it so.

None of it matters in the end though, I know somewhere deep down that the shard isn't going to happen.

If I'm wrong and it does come up then fine but there is still the other part where I don't see it lasting more than 2-3 months if it is era accurate, this is all just my opinion though.

But if you are right on both counts ray then I suppose you are the ®3@£ |\/|3$$!@|-|

 

[Kaleb]

I fully understand the arguments about house hiding being a problem in PvP, therefore for that sole reason, I would vote against any custom housing

With the old school housing rules, custom housing is not a problem in a T2A setting.

 

[_Zen]

With the old school housing rules, custom housing is not a problem in a T2A setting.

uh.. Yes it is. Have you seen some of the "designs" that some people come up with. They're an absolute eye-sore and take away from the general aesthetic of the era.

 

[Kaleb]

uh.. Yes it is. Have you seen some of the "designs" that some people come up with. They're an absolute eye-sore and take away from the general aesthetic of the era.

Um its 2010 not 98-99, so...... some people cant design houses or dont want to put the time into it big deal, Dont want a custom house place a classic. Personally I hate the Classic Designs and if I was forced only to look at those I prob wouldn't play the shard very long.

 

[Ray_]

Where have you been for the last ten years buddy? not only is it provable but it is a fact, since you know it's already happened once, or have you forgotten the reason why you play free shards?

Do your research. UO subs were climbing steadily pre-UO:R. Subscription numbers NEVER fell between 1997 and 2000. UO:R was a kneejerk response to a perceived problem of market share, what with EQ, AC, DAOC, etc all coming out. Yes, players left for those games but other players signed up to take their place, enough so to represent a net gain in subscriptions every single quarter.

 

[SoulStealer A.O]

Enough is enough already.

Guys, the letter from the Producer was about the possibility of them making a "Classic Serve". Not a Server with, for example, the T2A Patch and a bunch of additions from UO:R and a few additions from p:16. I think the first thing people need to do is realise what classic means. I know everyone has their own opinion but let's say, for argument sake Classic UO meant No,artifacts, no item stats/attributes, no trammel and it was an true open sandbox box game where you really could do what you want to do and be what you want to be.

Now let's say you agree with the above statement, that would put you pre uo:r as far as publishes go. The question you all need to ask yourself is, can you actually handle that? Is that really the UO that YOU want to be playing? I know for me it is. Can you handle the system EXACTLY the way it was, because that's what we are talking about here. Is there room for changes down the line? Of Course there is but I think the dev's might be sitting here thinking to themselves, on one hand people want all this classic things and on another they want to change things. If these things wern't changed, at least not off the bat, can you handle it?

If your answer is no, then you are not for a classic server, so just say, this isn't for me and be done with it. There is no reason to argue about subs back in 1997-2003 and Post AoS, the is no reason to talk about how you can't handle being targetted by people who chose to PK or how you feel like custom housing needs to be kept in or how you think the game wont last in the exact era ruleset/mechanics as the game use to have. If you are for a Classic Server, you are about playing the game the way it was. Yes there are new things about UO that make it better now (for some and I'm sure little things that have improved dramatically) but those things are apart of new UO and if you want them, you already have them.

What we need to do is, for those who want to see a classic server. come out and say we can play a classic server the way it was. If things need to be adjusted down the road, we can visit that when the time comes. If we don't I doubt we will see much come of this topic. I've seen the same arguments for 100's of posts by different sets of people now, it's time for it to stop and for people to realise what the options really are here.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

If your answer is no, then you are not for a classic server, so just say, this isn't for me and be done with it.

Not for me, I've seen it fail once already.

/debate

 

[Trebr Drab]

One of the comments the Devs have always made is "what exactly is classic?"

So, no, it's not a simple "the way it was" or nothing at all. And you guys saying this doesn't change what the rest of us want anyways.
So, like uh, go jump in a lake or something.

Not that UO is ever going to get over all the hurdles to change anything, anyways.

 

[SoulStealer A.O]

Go jump in a lake he says. Constructive.

I fully am aware that the game would be ideal with updates. I for one would like to see more restriction added to pking to save the population in the long run.

 

[_Zen]

Um its 2010 not 98-99, so...... some people cant design houses or dont want to put the time into it big deal, Dont want a custom house place a classic. Personally I hate the Classic Designs and if I was forced only to look at those I prob wouldn't play the shard very long.

I was referring to the "Classic" era, whichever that may be. Not the actual year.. And I know for a fact that custom housing wasn't in until AoS. Therefore if it were in the classic shard, it would definitely give it a post AoS type feel. One that we're trying to get away from.

 

[Longest Journey]

I was referring to the "Classic" era, whichever that may be. Not the actual year.. And I know for a fact that custom housing wasn't in until AoS. Therefore if it were in the classic shard, it would definitely give it a post AoS type feel. One that we're trying to get away from.

QFT.

 

[NorCal]

I still have fond memories of classic UO. My experience started with the T2A expansion. I quit after the Samurai expansion because I grew tired of the item based game UO had become and the grind that it created. I loved my time in UO so much that I have lurked here from time to time reading about the state of UO

What I still miss about UO to this day is the skill based charater developement, risk v. reward, world PvP and most of all a non item based gaming experience. No other game has that classic UO feel. I would pay monthly and reactivate my account in a heartbeat for a classic shard, but I won't touch what UO has become.

As far as non consentual pvp goes the worst thing UO ever did beside AoS and item based pvp was trammell. Not that something wasn't needed, but what should have been done was making pve and pvp servers. WoW has pve and pvp servers so there is no such thing as non consentual pvp. You consent to pvp when you create a character on a pvp server. I understand why they didn't do that at the time because people didn't want their communities torn apart or to lose everything by starting over on a new server and character transfers weren't available at the time.

 

[Longest Journey]

Yes lets just put a true to form era accurate T2A shard up and it will settle the matter once and for all. It will be fun for the two-three months it lasts and then it will have the plug pulled when it becomes a ghost shard.

This is a trammys dream come true if it happens, that way they can come back after it fails and say "hey guyz nobody wants da classic shard! dey tried it once and it didn't wurk!"

So yes lets all just throw up an era accurate shard and quickly be reminded of why trammel was formed in the first place, that will show em.

And don't think for a second the small group of friends each of us has that would come back for a shard like this means much to the devs for the following reasons.

1) Completely anecdotal nobody knows if they will actually show
2) Even if the four or five people that post here reguraly brought in twenty friends each it still isn't much in the way of meaningful numbers.

Trammel was never necessary. Instead of implimenting and updating old penalties for reds, they coped out and made trammel, hoping to syphon subs away from EQ by offering kid friendly game play in an attempt to lach onto and suckle from the teat of mainstream games.

Classic servers would work and would be viable if the developers were willing to sit down, listen to suggestions from players who played back then, and put some effort into them, instead of just making another item pack for the AOS servers. Whats next? Artifacts by IKEA?

Seriously, if the Mythic developers have ANY interest in keeping UO going, classic servers are their only hope.

 

[tenduil]

Seriously, if the Mythic developers have ANY interest in keeping UO going, classic servers are their only hope.

I believe he's right and this scare's alot of the current players.

How many new accounts are created for the current EA servers vs how many cancel on a monthly basis? I'm sure its less. The current EA shards are slowly losing their player base and have been for a while. The only hope for EA to continue with UO is to attract new accounts to the game. A classic shard offers the best hope of that.

 

[dum3886]

I believe he's right and this scare's alot of the current players.

How many new accounts are created for the current EA servers vs how many cancel on a monthly basis? I'm sure its less. The current EA shards are slowly losing their player base and have been for a while. The only hope for EA to continue with UO is to attract new accounts to the game. A classic shard offers the best hope of that.

I don't think it scares anyone actually.. they r just ignorant to what is in front of their eyes. Everyone knows UO is and will die if nothing is done soon. Oceania has maybe 100-200 people now... i just read a post.. someone says.. oo yeah the population has picked up there r 13 people at quest A and 6 people at quest B (or very similar numbers)... that's what 19 people and they consider that a lot now? wat a joke some of the servers have become.. Oceania is literally a server where people go to for resources.... u go there u farm scrolls bcz no one is there to stop u... u go there... u take all the rubble... u go there u farm w/o anyone coming to murder u... what a pathetic state UO is in atm.

 

[Kaleb]

One of the comments the Devs have always made is "what exactly is classic?"

So, no, it's not a simple "the way it was" or nothing at all. And you guys saying this doesn't change what the rest of us want anyways.
So, like uh, go jump in a lake or something.

Not that UO is ever going to get over all the hurdles to change anything, anyways.

To me "classic" is not a point in time but they way skills, Items, Combat worked to me its about the systems that made UO great Pre:AOS, and just because the AOS system borked skills, items, combat does not mean there were not a lot of great additions into the game after AOS. I play Free servers just as much as EA servers I spent a lot of time looking for a "classic" (by my definition) server I found many t2a era specific shards and while the gameplay was good the population was not as, I eventually found a server sometime 04-05 and its a mix of the old by means of skills,weaps/armor, combat, no tram while at the same time providing modern additions that were not unbalancing to combat, I was blown away by how many players were playing this server, So many people from all around the world playing (everyone is about the same speed there regardless) this server is considered one of the top if not the top PRS's out there, amazing considering there are no penalties for murder and reds can enter GZ while at the same time PvM thrives.

UO:R was a good expansion up to pub 16, tram was needed but the way it was added was wrong, 3rd Dawn/LBR was a great expansion besides the Tod McDontknowUltima garbage art, SE was great for its new islands, weapons armors. ML was great for new crafting systems,weaps/armors and quests. SA pretty much the same as ML and the abyss. As for AOS only thing good from that was Custom housing. If all these expansions were released while maintaining seperate servers for fel and tram and kept the old item,AR properties, skills, combat, there would be no Game out today that would be able to shake a stick to it.

but to me "classic" is about the "classic" gameplay not about what you see. We never had people demanding a Classic shard till after AOS.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

Trammel was never necessary. Instead of implimenting and updating old penalties for reds, they coped out and made trammel, hoping to syphon subs away from EQ by offering kid friendly game play in an attempt to lach onto and suckle from the teat of mainstream games.

Trammel wasn't necessary I have always agreed with that, but they obviously rushed into it for a reason, they were bleeding subs and people were just plain frustrated with the way the game was going.

They could have tried some of the things that have been discussed here and the game would still be great fun. I think what I get tired of the most is the pk crowd yelling "risk vs reward" when they don't want to risk anything themselves.

You are never going to convince me that a 7 x gm naked hally mage with ten-twenty of each reg is risking anything when he kills ten other players and hauls away a ton of loot possibly even getting a house or boat in the process as well.

These guys don't want stat loss on death because then they do risk something, if you have that kind of stat loss system in place you can't just run around with the bare minimum if you hope to survive very long and you have to be much more selective about your targets.

Just the way I see it, these guys want a return to the "way things were" when other people payed their monthly fee to be sport for a select group of other players, now honestly how much fun do you think that is? To me it was great fun because I was on the wolf side of the fence, but if I were a non-pvp type I probably would have hated it "the way it was"

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

Wow, haven't been on the stratics forums in years and nostalgia brought me back here and I saw this gem of a thread. I started playing in April of 98, about 6 months before T2A came out. I played all the way up until the release of AoS, and even tried to give it a real shot.

I support wholeheartedly ANY type of classic shard so long as it's pre-AoS shard. If I had wanted to play diablo I would have played diablo. I don't care if it has trammel, precasting, control slots. hell I don't even care if there is no stat-loss or murder counts. Noto? I can live with that.

If EA/Mythic were to create a classic shard that removes all the useless itemization and overcomplexity of gear I would be on it in a hearbeat.

Just a caveat, I played on Great Lakes, and while when I first began playing I did get PK'd somewhat regularly once I got a little more experienced in the game I seldom got PK'd and went on to join a good group of Anti-PK's. God I miss those fights at the Cove Orc Fort with Rocky Raccoon.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Q

Enough is enough already.

Guys, the letter from the Producer was about the possibility of them making a "Classic Serve". Not a Server with, for example, the T2A Patch and a bunch of additions from UO:R and a few additions from p:16. I think the first thing people need to do is realise what classic means. I know everyone has their own opinion but let's say, for argument sake Classic UO meant No,artifacts, no item stats/attributes, no trammel and it was an true open sandbox box game where you really could do what you want to do and be what you want to be.

Now let's say you agree with the above statement, that would put you pre uo:r as far as publishes go. The question you all need to ask yourself is, can you actually handle that? Is that really the UO that YOU want to be playing? I know for me it is. Can you handle the system EXACTLY the way it was, because that's what we are talking about here. Is there room for changes down the line? Of Course there is but I think the dev's might be sitting here thinking to themselves, on one hand people want all this classic things and on another they want to change things. If these things wern't changed, at least not off the bat, can you handle it?

If your answer is no, then you are not for a classic server, so just say, this isn't for me and be done with it. There is no reason to argue about subs back in 1997-2003 and Post AoS, the is no reason to talk about how you can't handle being targetted by people who chose to PK or how you feel like custom housing needs to be kept in or how you think the game wont last in the exact era ruleset/mechanics as the game use to have. If you are for a Classic Server, you are about playing the game the way it was. Yes there are new things about UO that make it better now (for some and I'm sure little things that have improved dramatically) but those things are apart of new UO and if you want them, you already have them.

What we need to do is, for those who want to see a classic server. come out and say we can play a classic server the way it was. If things need to be adjusted down the road, we can visit that when the time comes. If we don't I doubt we will see much come of this topic. I've seen the same arguments for 100's of posts by different sets of people now, it's time for it to stop and for people to realise what the options really are here.

Just wanted to respond to this particular post really quickly:

The thing is, I see a lot of people asking for (demanding) era-accurate, to the letter, no changes, etc...but then in the next breath they ask for bug fixes. The bugs were part of the era. You have to take the good with the bad if you are hell-bent on zero deviation.

This part is very important
The devs have stated that they do not have the code for this era. If that is true, then what they are going to have to do is re-create the code either from the ground up, or through some form of emulation (hiding things that currently exist in the game, etc.). If they are doing this, why would they want to re-create something that was flawed?

I know that there are a certain sub-set of Classic Shard fans that were red PKs back in the day, and they want things to be exactly like they were...but you have to realize...things will never be like they were. Back in the days of precasting and insta-kills with EQ for example, players did not have a choice. They had to put up with things like that. They don't now. If these types of things make it into a Classic Shard, and it is setup to favor PKs over non-PvP players, then in a very short amount of time, all you will have is PKs. That's what Fel was after UO:R...and it become empty really quickly.

I know several people will point out that Fel was more full until AoS...and they would be correct...but it doesn't change the fact that it was still on the decline before AoS. Why else did the devs need to entice people to go to Fel with powerscrolls and champ spawns??

For a Classic Shard to have that "Classic feel" it is going to have to cater to both pvp'ers and non-pvp'ers. I am already somewhat doubtful that very many Trammies will bother with the shard no matter what...but why start off with a ruleset that automatically alienates them?? This is not an advocation for Trammel but rather a call for moderation...on both sides.

 

[Bc-]

Re: Q

I was 1 of 100 people selected for the phase 1 of DAoC beta testing. I was playing UO at the time so it was a big deal for me to divert some of my playing time over to this new game. Obviously by that point UO wasn't the same game I had first played, but I still felt it was a solid project. However, the chance to beta test a new MMO (which at the time there was maybe three on the table, EQ, AC and DAOC?) was a big deal for me. It was an elaborate process, nothing like today where you just upload a file and fill out your specs.

I actually felt like I was getting interviewed for a job at some points. After I had signed the NDA I started playing daily, and having regular dialogue with the developers on the beta boards. I was quickly promoted to Team Lead for Infiltrators and Friars. This required a lot of my time, so eventually I dropped Friar's in phase 2 when we gained more people and took up the job of moderation for the developers forums. I spent a great deal of time and effort both in and out of game so I felt my time investment paid off in release when I played full time. I left UO behind and had a blast, I played for years, sometimes taking a vacation back to UO but DAoC had become my new game. I know many of the developers and workers there so I kept in touch and was given a heads up on certain changes and at times even asked my opinion since the beta boards were still live. My account was given to me from day 1 as free for life, every expansion updated, I have never had to spend 1 cent on playing DAoC. This was a reward for my countless hours and hours of work to help build a great game.

Then ToA hit and I felt like everything I had done, all those hours I had sacrificed were thrown out the window. We had a game with graphics that blew EQ out of the water, with PVP that rivaled what UO was currently passing off for PvP, and an item based system that relied MORE on player crafted items than bashing monsters all day.

There was non stop PvP in the frontiers, there was monster bashing for those who chose it, and a great risk vs. reward factor for those wishing to battle it out over Keeps. The game was ideal, but what do people say about games, the evolution of a gamer facilitates change. Change is necessary to survive in the gaming world. This I totally agree on, but you have to be careful where and what you are changing. There is nothing wrong with change, if it is in the right direction.

I remember the first week of ToA I sat back and said wow.. this must be what the Alpha testers in UO felt like when Pre Cast hit, or when UO:R was released. I was disgusted. I felt betrayed. I would have canceled my account that day if I could.. but being free for life I just stopped logging in. I went back to UO.. and again was disgusted.

An employee who is no longer with Mythic now once told me that they made the Classic servers because he felt like he owed us something. He felt like he owed us, the originals, an apology for messing up a game that we had worked so hard to perfect.

I think that EA owes the alpha and beta and early players of this game an apology, I think they owe us a Classic server. We made this game successful, without us there would be no UO today. I still have dialogue occaisonally with Mythic employees, and whether you trust me or not is up to you, but this server is more on the table than anyone thinks. This is no longer just a pipe dream on the internet. We can all say what we want but ultimately it is their decision, threads like this help inform them of what the public wants, but it won't be the deciding factor. So the nay sayers can nay, and huff and puff and blow our houses down, but ultimately it isn't their decision. You need to stop resisting change, you need to be ready to evolve. Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but everyone can start today and make a new ending.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I want to go forward, not backwards.

I also wanted to respond to this as well:

Sometimes, when you are travelling, you make a wrong turn...and the only way to right your course is to go backwards first...then go foward in the right direction.

That's what I believe UO needs.

 

[Llewen]

Re: Q

I'll repeat what I already said in this thread, and make it a bit more emphatic. In my personal opinion it isn't a matter of if they (Mythic) are going to make a classic UO shard, it is a matter of when.

I still have dialogue occaisonally with Mythic employees, and whether you trust me or not is up to you, but this server is more on the table than anyone thinks. This is no longer just a pipe dream on the internet.

Obviously I agree with you, I don't think it's a matter of if, it is a matter of when. We know the devs are following the forums now like they never have before, and I think the discussion in this thread has probably given them a lot to think about. I think 2010 and 2011 are going to be interesting years in the life of UO.

 

[SoulStealer A.O]

Good now we are getting somehwere.

Morg your posts are one sided. Nobody is talking about PKing, I was talking about a start point. I didn't open the can of worms to debate about it because I'd personally like to see the classic UO game updated so it lasts a long time. Fixing bugs and other issues everyone had. I'm not against playing a true classic server though.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Morg your posts are one sided.

???

Okay...let's take a second and review my stance on the matter...

I do not advocate for Trammel, I do not advocate for wide open, no consequence PKing.

Which side exactly do you think I am on? There are a few of us in this thread that believe that a happy medium can be found...and I am one of them.

How can you call that "one sided"?

Nobody is talking about PKing

I haven't counted them, and probably won't, but I would bet that almost 50% of the posts in this thread either directly or indirectly involve the issue of PKing...if not more.

I'd personally like to see the classic UO game updated so it lasts a long time. Fixing bugs and other issues everyone had. I'm not against playing a true classic server though.

You and I agree 100% here. I'd rather see them put a few simple measures in place to address the problems that Classic UO (pre-Tram) had, but I would still play on a 100% era-accurate shard.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Re: Q

I think that EA owes the alpha and beta and early players of this game an apology, I think they owe us a Classic server. We made this game successful, without us there would be no UO today. I still have dialogue occaisonally with Mythic employees, and whether you trust me or not is up to you, but this server is more on the table than anyone thinks. This is no longer just a pipe dream on the internet. We can all say what we want but ultimately it is their decision, threads like this help inform them of what the public wants, but it won't be the deciding factor. So the nay sayers can nay, and huff and puff and blow our houses down, but ultimately it isn't their decision. You need to stop resisting change, you need to be ready to evolve. Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but everyone can start today and make a new ending.

Well, that's interesting.

However, I have little faith in game developers. They make games. These MMOs are worlds. They screw the pooch when they make content that's level grind trying to forge a psychological carrot. They screw it again when they add leader boards and points system for the same reason.
If they ever realize that it's all about the fun, the entertainment, not the carrots, then they might start to realize that a different approach is what's needed.
You want glue? Add social constructions like player built and run cities, or even small villages or even roadside rests. Add intrigue and mystery that takes the lore and builds stories and histories. Add trade and caravans and shipping. Add needs to defend. And give the players what they need, the tools, to do all this, and succeed if they do it right, and do it themselves.

UO had the beginnings of this. Barely scratching the surface. And even so, people to this day still talk about it. Like the lost legends of times past. The treasure that most think if just a story, just fiction, just a dream of dreamers.