Classic shard.

[tenduil]

The penalty was stat loss if you res'd while red. So if the timer only works while alive, they'd have to res and take the stat loss. This would work the same as with stat loss at death. So, either way, I guess.

So a red hidden in a house wasting hours to get rid of the counts would be ok with alot of you then?
Put this way actually I may not have a problem with that. The red is risking death while hiding (if they have hiding...) with death meaning stat loss.
I'm sorry if Morgana was getting at this and I just fail at reading. This might be a viable option if it would help.

Eh though if they die while red and fighting their again screwed. Which again promotes Blue PK's.

Have to stick with my original stance: Stat loss only upon resurrection and you can use time while dead to remove counts.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Yes. Raph Koster commented once that UO had lost in the 6 figures because of PKing. That's a lot of players to lose just to make a free for all for one subset of gamers.

Sanctioned PvP doesn't seem to be enough for PKers. Guild wars, factions, whatever, they'd rather gank anyone they can find. Driving others to quit the game. So if you still want open PvP, you need to make it much less wide open.

Thank you for the reference. That is alot of people. What you have though is a significant number of players (many of which do not currently pay EA and would) that want a T2A shard with this 'open' PvP that many of you are against.

So why not just do it?

Yeah, first off there was a great many of those who were left that were thinking about quitting too, and still very vocal about rampant PKing. It's not at all like everybody left wanted wide open PvP.

Blame the victims? They were often skilled for trade skills, like minors. Or hurting from damage from monsters when attacked. Or outnumbered 3 to 1. Hell, I remember the time when you walked into a dungeon, you had to wait about 30 seconds to load the new server, and in the meantime someone had cast a firewall on you because they saw you right away, and you were dead. That was like a 0 on 1 attack, heh. That's why today you can't cast such spells inside dungeon entrances.

Sort of. The victims knew the risks when they went out of town. Inputting new rules/restrictions and making the game different is not what most of the people want. Also PKing happens. That was part of life in UO. If I wanted to never worry about dying and go mine something I would play on a Trammel shard or go play WoW.

That leaves out the variety of player styles, and leaves you with a game that centers entirely around PKing and ganking. These are proven, time and time again, not to work. Fel is the classic example. Where is the PvP, where are the players? They need PowerScrolls to entice players to go there to get PKed, and without them the server is just dead (except for a very few die hard PvPers). Other examples are Shadowbane, AC's Darktide server, anty other game's wide open PvP/looting servers, and Darkfall (which is new enough to still be in the middle of losing players yet due to the one dimensional game play).

And understand, those many of us who want a justice system do not want to "never worry about dying". Rather, we want a vibrant game world that does have crime, but also justice.

 

[Trebr Drab]

The penalty was stat loss if you res'd while red. So if the timer only works while alive, they'd have to res and take the stat loss. This would work the same as with stat loss at death. So, either way, I guess.

So a red hidden in a house wasting hours to get rid of the counts would be ok with alot of you then?
Put this way actually I may not have a problem with that. The red is risking death while hiding (if they have hiding...) with death meaning stat loss.
I'm sorry if Morgana was getting at this and I just fail at reading. This might be a viable option if it would help.

Eh though if they die while red and fighting their again screwed. Which again promotes Blue PK's.

Have to stick with my original stance: Stat loss only upon resurrection and you can use time while dead to remove counts.

That system worked a little, but not enough. Really, what was worse was the way PKers used thieving to get players to attack them, which allowed them to then kill and loot the victim without a murder count.

Some may wonder, if they had fixed the thief thing, if that would have reduced the entire package of PKing to an acceptable level.

But there's a key element here. The victims, many of who are pure carebear types, need to know that the PKer faced justice. They need to be satisfied that justice was met out. Unless, of course, the PKer changed their ways and "went straight". That's why I think it's important to have a death penalty on death, or as Petra suggested with the timer only working while alive.

And a good game with vabrant life and varieties of play styles needs carebears as well as every other play style.

 

[Bc-]

Oh, they will. If classic servers get put in, the AOS ones are doomed.

See, given the evidence provided by the past several years, its easy to prove that the AOS content is very unpopular thanks to the plummeting sub numbers after AOS. Couple that with how many former UO players out there in MMO land have said they would gladly leave their current MMOs and come back to UO if classic server were made and youve got a recipie for success of the classic servers.

With the success of the classic servers, the developers are going to want to put more time, money, man power and resources into them. But where are they going to get all of this? Answer: By cutting off the dead weight that is the horribly under populated AOS servers. Why keep putting money into something barely anyone plays?

I don't think so... a lot of the people that play UO now never got to play Pre AoS.. so they might try the Classic shard, but I think vs. their time invested on their current shard they will not stick there. The majority of the players on the Classic shard are going to be returning customers, I would say somewhere in the range of 80%. So that is why this seems so appealing from a business stand point, profit. The server should realistically pay for itself within the first few months.

A certain player run shard that opened in 2004 had over 100,000 accounts (with a limit of 1 per household unless special permission was given) open up in the first few months. Obviously not all of those people stayed, but that is very, very impressive.

 

[tenduil]

Yeah, first off there was a great many of those who were left that were thinking about quitting too, and still very vocal about rampant PKing. It's not at all like everybody left wanted wide open PvP.

That leaves out the variety of player styles, and leaves you with a game that centers entirely around PKing and ganking. These are proven, time and time again, not to work. Fel is the classic example. Where is the PvP, where are the players? They need PowerScrolls to entice players to go there to get PKed, and without them the server is just dead (except for a very few die hard PvPers). Other examples are Shadowbane, AC's Darktide server, anty other game's wide open PvP/looting servers, and Darkfall (which is new enough to still be in the middle of losing players yet due to the one dimensional game play).

And understand, those many of us who want a justice system do not want to "never worry about dying". Rather, we want a vibrant game world that does have crime, but also justice.

I think perhaps a lot of you are associating post UO:R felucca to PKing. Once Trammel opened up Felucca was pretty much only a PK location. That seems pretty obvious. I again do not remember a serious issue with PK's prior to UO:R. Were there PK's? Yes. Did they kill people? Yes. But it's not like Felucca was covered by PK's or if you left town you were destined to die.

I understand there are many other aspects to UO and I personally love my lumberjack yet PvP is a large part of UO. Those other games had one big problem that the current UO shares: huge landmasses. A T2A shard offers a limited area and forces the community to interact. Both for good and bad.

I prefer to see more community self regulation than changes to the game mechanics.

 

[tenduil]

But there's a key element here. The victims, many of who are pure carebear types, need to know that the PKer faced justice. They need to be satisfied that justice was met out. Unless, of course, the PKer changed their ways and "went straight". That's why I think it's important to have a death penalty on death, or as Petra suggested with the timer only working while alive.

And a good game with vabrant life and varieties of play styles needs carebears as well as every other play style.

Why does justice need to be met? Are Lord British's guard's expanding their coverage to 'PKing area's'? Why does the blue community not step forward and address PK's? This should be the real fix: Greater community interaction in a smaller landmass. THAT was what made UO great.

I don't mind carebears. I have an issue with carebears that are not well prepared and then complain when they die in destard with their 2 dragons while provoking for hours on end. I have an issue with any player that does not understand the mechanics of the game and then complains; including red's.

 

[daisuke]

remove aos+ item properties and skills from siege perilous and mugen. theres yer classic server in 10 minutes flat. done deal. see how many people go play there. none. why? pre aos uo is stodgy and outdated. go play a classic free shard for 5 minutes. booooooring.

or what about this: all u classic whiners start a guild and duel eachother naked with npc bought halberds and piles of regs with 0/0 casting all day. not that hard. uo hasnt changed so much that you cant simulate classic uo ^^

 

[Trebr Drab]

But there's a key element here. The victims, many of who are pure carebear types, need to know that the PKer faced justice. They need to be satisfied that justice was met out. Unless, of course, the PKer changed their ways and "went straight". That's why I think it's important to have a death penalty on death, or as Petra suggested with the timer only working while alive.

And a good game with vabrant life and varieties of play styles needs carebears as well as every other play style.

Why does justice need to be met? Are Lord British's guard's expanding their coverage to 'PKing area's'? Why does the blue community not step forward and address PK's? This should be the real fix: Greater community interaction in a smaller landmass. THAT was what made UO great.

I don't mind carebears. I have an issue with carebears that are not well prepared and then complain when they die in destard with their 2 dragons while provoking for hours on end. I have an issue with any player that does not understand the mechanics of the game and then complains; including red's.

It didn't work before. It never worked in any game. Why would you think it could work this time?

 

[tenduil]

remove aos+ item properties and skills from siege perilous and mugen. theres yer classic server in 10 minutes flat. done deal. see how many people go play there. none. why? pre aos uo is stodgy and outdated. go play a classic free shard for 5 minutes. booooooring.

Bitter and not helpful. I don't play on seige because I can't sell my hard earned goods to NPC's. This combined with only having one players makes it ********.

I play on a classic free shard with a large, vibrant population. It's not boring to me or the hundreds others that play. You have your point of view but its not held by the majority.

Stop trolling.

 

[tenduil]

It didn't work before. It never worked in any game. Why would you think it could work this time?

It worked on Catskills just fine.

 

[Trebr Drab]

It didn't work before. It never worked in any game. Why would you think it could work this time?

It worked on Catskills just fine.

It did? Catskills was no different than any other shard. They had the exact same problems and the exact same results. I did play on Cats for a while, roughly just after Trammel came out, and talked to people there in the RP guilds. It was the same story there as anywhere else.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Hi all!

I wanted to drop in and add a couple of quick thoughts, then I am going to let the matter rest here for my part.

- Adding a Classic Shard would be a great way for EA to thank the veteran players that supported this game for so many years. If nothing else, as a testament to our legacy and our heritage. Even though a lot of current players enjoy the current system, many of them never got to see how the game started and where it came from.

- I don't think comparing EA run shards to freeshards in any capacity (number of subscriptions, number of players online at a given time, behavior of players on the shard, etc.) is valid because there are too many things that are dissimilar about them.

- I think that everyone that actually wants to see a Classic Shard succeed needs to take a step back, let go of some personal issues that go back many years, and consider what is best for the shard...not their own personal playstyle. This goes for "carebears" and "pks". If you are a "carebear" and don't want to be PKed...ever...a Classic Shard is probably not right for you. If you are a PK, and you ever want the chance to kill 'innocent victims' on an EA Shard again...you need to learn some self-control, because the last time you went full tilt...you got Trammel for your efforts. Think about that when you are fighting against penalties that make PKing less attractive. It can't be less attractive that how it is now.

- To the devs, I have to stress...don't let minor issues and details stop this project from becoming a reality. The Classic Shard fans, although they will do a good deal of posturing here, pretty much all really want one thing...a pre-AoS/pre-Trammel shard that is similar to the old UO we knew and loved. The details will take care of themselves...or can be fixed with patches and publishes...just like they were the first time around.

- To the mods and management of Stratics...thank you for allowing us to have this discussion here. I understand very well that discussions such as these can turn very heated, and often run very counter to the pro-current game/'official forums' stance that Stratics normally takes. I urge you to consider a new forum devoted to this subject...of course, it is my not site...so that is just a recommendation. It appears that there are many people that feel strongly about this subject, and that they would like a place to discuss it. Why not make Stratics that place?

- To the posters in this thread (and dozens of others rolleyes...I would like to apologize to each and every one of you that I offended. As an ambassador of the Protectors of Virtue, and an Ultima Online veteran, I should never allow my temper to get the better of me in an environment such as this. Each person has their own opinions, and in their eyes...that opinion is valid...and deserves respect. I regret that there have been moments that I did not see that.


And finally, I'd like to say that I will be checking in from time to time, even if I am not posting. I consider Stratics to be a great source of information, and a great place to talk to other Ultima Online players. No matter what your playstyle is, you can almost always find someone that agrees or disagrees with you, and the conversations can, and should, be enlightening.

Well, that's about all I have. I hope to see you on the Classic Shard in the not too distant future, and I hope that those that are against it can find a way to accept it...whether you realize it or not, it is a good thing for the UO community as a whole, even if it doesn't necessarily directly benefit you.

 

[Derium of ls]

Again. My vision does not belong in this thread. I have no desire to play on a 'classic' shard. On the other hand, nor am I against it, for those who want it. I want to go forward, not backwards. I now retire to my normal 'observing only' role in this thread.

If there is an oil spill in the ocean, don't we go clean it up? you never hear anyone complain "stop living in the past! don't go back to how things were before this mess!"... It's called correcting what went horribly wrong.

So like I said, this has nothing to do with the past, it has everything to do with correcting some Ex-EAs employees vision of losing players to Diablo 2.

 

[Megilhir]

We need to stop feeding the Trolls People. Let's get back to working on the Classic Shard idea. The faster we get the Classic Shard idea finished, the faster we can be rid of them.

Let's stay focused and not let the tail twisters distract us.

Posting thoughts different or in opposition to yours does not make that poster a troll.

No more so than the original post makes a troll.

Some could quite successfully postulate that starting the debate for an "Original or Classic Shard" is a huge mountain troll.

Of all the subscriptions left in UO how many (by percentage) actually WANT a clasic shard?

Here is an easy solution. All UO need do is add a simple voting line of code with the log in screen for a limited time, say, a month.

Would you play on a Classic Shard? Yes. No.

Then they have the data to suggest if it is worth doing for their OVERALL customer base.

As far as opinions go, mine is that there will never again be a classic shard mentality regardless of the ruleset.

When UO first was released it was truly ground-breaking new entertainment. That is edge is, simply put, gone.

 

[tenduil]

It did? Catskills was no different than any other shard. They had the exact same problems and the exact same results. I did play on Cats for a while, roughly just after Trammel came out, and talked to people there in the RP guilds. It was the same story there as anywhere else.

I spent more than four years on Cats. I did not view, nor did anyone I know, PKs as a serious problem. What RP guild had a problem? I know most, if not all of them, that existed back then?

AGAIN, the polls and overwhelming majority of people that want this want T2A. No modifications to the mechanics, no dumbing down player vs player combat, no changes to the murder system. Just put up a server that is T2A.

Using Morgana's retail box idea + the monthly charge EA should be able to pay for the cost of putting it out pretty fast. Hell have them put up a test server that is based on the Classic Shard for a month or two, free, and see how many people come back. There are plenty of ways to get this going and get accurate feedback that is not forums based. Megilhir's idea isn't the best but its an idea and wouldn't take alot of work from the Dev team. Speaking of... again this is all moot without truthful, blantant comments from the Dev team: Yes were seriously considering it or no it's not considered feasible. If NO, cool no problem. Thanks for the consideration and the ANSWER. If YES, GREAT can the community help at all?

Of all the subscriptions left in UO how many (by percentage) actually WANT a clasic shard?

Here is an easy solution. All UO need do is add a simple voting line of code with the log in screen for a limited time, say, a month.

Would you play on a Classic Shard? Yes. No.

Then they have the data to suggest if it is worth doing for their OVERALL customer base.

Not a bad start though I would argue most of the players that would goto a Classic Shard are not current EA subscribers. Additionally getting feedback from current paying customers, though nice, is not probably going to sway them. That said I still think its a good idea; anything that helps is good.

 

[Evlar]

I would suggest that in any form of PvP, quite often players take things far too personally.

There's no doubt whatsoever that players get immersed in their online personas, thus by extension, when someone assaults their persona, they feel assaulted themselves.

Unfortunately there's no way to cure this problem. Perhaps at on one occasion or another, we're all guilty of taking what is essentially a "game" too seriously, otherwise, why would we debate things so much in these very forums?

The hardest balance to strike, without any shadow of a doubt, is to please everyone and for everyone to find enjoyment at all times. Different people have different reasons and motivations for playing, so any gaming environment which permits an openness to do almost anything and potentially, to anyone, is always likely to suffer in one form or another.

The key problem though, if you try to deminish the impact of certain courses of player actions, without upsetting those that enjoy them, or without causing a domino effect on other aspects of gameplay.

Unfortunately, though a sandbox environement is fantastic and where players are allowed to feel more in "control", it just doesn't always seem to work out as planned.

With that in mind, I think we have to appreciate that there has to be certain ground rules in place, to curb any issues such as griefing of other players, bleating by players who assume incorrectly that they're being griefed, which are enforceable by integrated game mechanics.

Unfortunately in UO's case, the solution used was one which ultimately divided communities and also deminished the challenges faced by both sets of players.

I will be watching with great interest, how the dev team get on in their efforts to prevent cheating, use of third party progs and scripting. These have always been a blight on the game and if they get anywhere near successful in their efforts, it will no doubt be the greatest change that any development team has been able to implement. It might arguably be the biggest draw to bring players back to the game, in whatever form.

Any classic shard option will benefit greatly from this. The big challenge then, is how to ensure that game mechanics aren't exploited in-game, how to steer players in the right direction when it comes to consensual actions towards one another, how to combat griefing, bleating. Unfortunately, much as we (the players) might try to combat inherent problems in any socially interactive medium such as UO (or any other game for that matter), we are always likely to fail, unless we are supported by in-game mechanics, which help bring communities together, rather than drive them apart.

For me anyhow, it's more about my enjoyment of days before items assumed more importance than skill or gameplay. PvP/PK'ing/Griefing/Bleating... I'll leave in your hands to discuss and resolve, if it's possible to resolve satisfactorily for the majority.

Anyhow, I think I've droned on long enough...

(I'm off to put the kettle on )

 

[woolygimp]

I will also add that I'm a PvPer at heart. Any game I play I quickly opt for the FFA pvp server if available such as Asheron's Call Darktide or DAOC's Mordred/Andred. Darktide (the FFA server) has a higher population than all of the "blue" Asheron's Call servers put together, so people definitely underestimate the PvP crowd.

Anyway, PKing in T2A needs to exist but it also needs a few limits and needs to be curtailed to an extent otherwise we'll run into the same problems several free shards have.

If a red goes on a "murder spree" and kills too many innocents in too short of a time, he needs a penalty attached to his death... just like the people he's preying on. A red can avoid this by not indiscriminately killing everyone.

As far as blue PKs: If you want a PK character that can only kill 3 people per week, then so be it. I don't think blue PKs will ever be that big of a problem.

Keep in mind, for those that like hardcore PvP (like me) the true 'creme de le' will be Order V Chaos or Factions. There's was more to this game than gating to every dungeon and killing everything that moves... it's time a few of you wake up and realize that.

Being a red was intended to be a brutal and unforgiving experience. It however was not.

 

[Evlar]

Of all the subscriptions left in UO how many (by percentage) actually WANT a clasic shard?

Here is an easy solution. All UO need do is add a simple voting line of code with the log in screen for a limited time, say, a month.

Would you play on a Classic Shard? Yes. No.

Then they have the data to suggest if it is worth doing for their OVERALL customer base.

Not a bad start though I would argue most of the players that would goto a Classic Shard are not current EA subscribers. Additionally getting feedback from current paying customers, though nice, is not probably going to sway them. That said I still think its a good idea; anything that helps is good.

A good suggestion by Megilhir and also reasonably countered by tenduil.

As of a few days ago, I am one of those "former" players. If I knew such a vote via the game client was to take place, I would re-activate at least one of my accounts, simply to participate in such a vote.

Those who no longer have active accounts, but would be more than interested in a return, would clearly have no voice on the matter if this were the only means of polling interest though. Likewise, as many players have more than one account, such a poll might be very imbalanced, as it would in effect, be polling accounts rather than individuals, therefore not likely the most democratic process, for one way or the other of voting.

My suggestion would be, to poll via email. I'm not sure what the cost implications would be for such a venture, but EA will have details stored for pretty much all currant and former players. Clearly some email addresses will no longer be active, but I would imagine that (if like myself) those with multiple accounts will likely use the same contact email address. Once that email address has responded and voted once, it cannot do so again. A little like certain consumer surveys or polls.

Either way, the only true way to satisfy the publisher's or developer's curiosity, to see if their business plan has sufficient support or rejection, or simplyput the matter to bed, is to reach out and find out.

 

[Bc-]

Well considering that Mythic is running the show I imagine they will follow the same protocol that occured for their Classic shards in DAoC.

There will be an email sent to every registered account (active or inactive) with a link to a poll. Everyone will be requested to vote, this will be paired with an ingame poll. They will then take and compare the results, for example Ok the ingame poll was 60% for 40% against, the email poll was 85% for 15% against. I think we can safely say that the majority of our player base will come from outside.

That is just a hypothetical situation, but this is the route they took before and were pretty much able to nail it right on with their Classic shards as a result.

 

[Derium of ls]

Well considering that Mythic is running the show I imagine they will follow the same protocol that occured for their Classic shards in DAoC.

There will be an email sent to every registered account (active or inactive) with a link to a poll. Everyone will be requested to vote, this will be paired with an ingame poll. They will then take and compare the results, for example Ok the ingame poll was 60% for 40% against, the email poll was 85% for 15% against. I think we can safely say that the majority of our player base will come from outside.

That is just a hypothetical situation, but this is the route they took before and were pretty much able to nail it right on with their Classic shards as a result.

so they did it for a different game of theirs?

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Dude are you telling me DAOC had their classic server WITH AN E-MAIL POLL !!! while we have been requesting one for 10 years ?

THIS dosen't add up...

Only my explanation even begins to adress the heart of the matter... and of course as you all have seen, it was completely ignored.

Don't try to insult me... building and keeping my Brainbug alive was nothing like a ride in a herse, it was HARD and stressful... the penalty was the death of my character, wether I planned on resing or not.

Definately a brutal AND unforgiving experience... more than that, I will remember it for the rest of my life. I had tought it out and past 1000 legit dungeon kill, I knew there was no turning back, NO way in heaven I'd stay connected what was it 4 hours per murder count ? I remember not even THINKING about that number...

Ignorance is a curse... not bliss ! (this is not meant to say people are ignorant, rather to underline why people might have been ignoring me completely)

I am also the only one remaining with a personal experience with the devs of these days... who else met the elder seers, the programmers ? Anyone else knew exactly their vision and what they wanted to implement before that ridiculous dumbed down trammel version was patched in to save EA's face in front of the huge DUPED gold selling scandal...

You can even see how this is a RED TAPE issue here, DAOC got a classic shard... I mean what in heaven is wrong here... yes I put the finger on the wound. I even found the medical definition in scientific terms...

Keep ignoring the truth ? Lets all play a game instead of having a living world ?

Trammel calls britannia... felucaa calls the earth... can you hear me ?

P.S. - You are also probably talking with the only murderer of those days stubborn enough not to get a blue friend to turn in their head when it was past 2000$ USD... no somehow I kept going until trammel hit, I died JUST before trammel. I lived all the intensity anyone can hope of, the Ultima Online. Like I knew it was coming. I remember logging on for a while... walking like the companion I was with a noob, or just going around as a ghost and listening to peoples conversation. May I remind everyone I was 14 years old then, and I was so shocked by the corruption that I resorted to numbing myself to forget this experience. I'm grown up now, and I know the difference ; you know corruption is everywhere... but you never get to actually see it manifest on something else than hard things. It can never really come get you in your dreams if you work and live a normal life, exept to me it did. I bet the mercury vapor coming off of the 7 or so mega mercury fillings I had in my teeth had something in it too, allowing me to notice the tangeant.

You can see when you're young and mostly uncorrupted exept by playboy magasines and being a bad boy blowing up illegal fireworks... you can see when all of a sudden, almost everyone in UO stood off from "caring" to "being" and the completely chaotic movement it had in the balance of power. The fragmented nature of the servers and limitations back then made it that not everyone could play on Atlantic, but thats where Lord Brittish would play, along with the others. They were on the pacific side, yet they always came to Atlantic, atlanta, the land beyond the poles... I'm digressing forgive me.

I'm the one who knows what he's talking about because I am the only Ahu. Stat loss penalty is a god created in a world, and in this world the god has a very, very estranged bening for good tramellites. I repeat it is absolutely impossible with a true classic environement ; kudos everyone for keeping it simple... that you get a player killing problem on a paying shard. You see a few murderers here, but were the ones who have not forgotten the truth... some have been corrupted some are true. People have to understand here is the waiting room ; its waiting to happen. Finally !

 

[Lord Frodo]

Dude are you telling me DAOC had their classic server WITH AN E-MAIL POLL !!! while we have been requesting one for 10 years ?

1st Mythic didn't run UO 10 yrs ago, EA did.

2nd I think this was done before EA bought Mythic or was in the planning stage.

3rd Mythic is looking at trying to give UO a classic server.

Take a deep breath, EA didn't want a classic shard and maybe Mythic can at least try to talk them into trying one to see what happens.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Are you kidding me... as IF EA had no part in anything...

 

[woolygimp]

daoc had no classic server.

there was talk from mythic about it in late 2008, but since then the discussion has dropped off the face of the earth.

the only way to play the classic daoc experience is a free shard Uthgard which has a higher population than all of Mythic's servers combined.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Do you think we are dreaming or something ? none of this makes sense...

 

[Petra Fyde]

Some posts have been removed. I'm sorry, but you really can't bring freeshard stuff here.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Eh, haven't free shards been ok to discuss, as long as you didn't advertise one specifically or asked for technical support for it.

 

[Unsatisfied]

I'm guessing someone dropped names

 

[Petra Fyde]

In the abstract, yes. Linking to a specific one's forum boards and then discussing the posts on there is a wee bit beyond RoC.

 

[Unsatisfied]

Lol that's fair enough

 

[Longest Journey]

It did? Catskills was no different than any other shard. They had the exact same problems and the exact same results. I did play on Cats for a while, roughly just after Trammel came out, and talked to people there in the RP guilds. It was the same story there as anywhere else.

Well, theres your problem right there. You played Cats post-Ren. You didnt play before then. Catskills pre-ren was great. High RP population, people were always on, and there werent that many reds. I remember guilds like the Griffon Riders, The Phatom Menace, The various branches of the Defenders of Justice. I even remember some of the more infamous reds like Fumanchu, reddog, arcangel, redrum.

I was with the MDJ, Moonglow Defenders of Justice, for a while. I remember one day we cornered a red in the moonglow forest near the teleporters to town near the telescope. He ran then tried to recall, but one of the guild archers shot him and interruped the spell and then we ganked him.

I dont know which RP guild you talked to, but they must have been all post trammel players, because most, if not all, of the vets from that shard were very displeased with trammel. The open PvP of pre-ren allowed for greater RPing by allowing the taking of heads as trophies and not needed to be in a guild war with someone to kill them.

I remember the Shadow Clan Orcs were particularly ticked off about trammel. They couldnt RP like they used to on trammel, not to mention the GMs had given them special reign over the Yew orc fort on Felucca, but they had no one to RP with or against anymore. I mean, they were so good and hard core about their RPing, GMs would sometimes stage events around them. I mean, they tried trammel and tried to adapt, but they just couldnt. they had to completely shift their RP dynamic and it ruined it. Eventually the original Shadow Clan disbanded. Someone tried to revive it later on, but it was short lived.

Heh, I remember getting stopped by 2 of them one day when I was passing the fort. They demanded I "giv um dem my shinys". I was on my catskill mage and laughed saying "Try and take them, foul beasts!". they attacked me, I parafielded them, threw down an EV and bombed them with explosion and Ebolt. I killed one of them and the other ran off. shortly after that, they declared war on the guild I was in and we fought them for a while.

It was fun. But after trammel, it was sad to see them languish then die out. A Catskills institution wiped out because some people couldnt handle the open PvP.

It was a real shame to watch.....

 

[Lord Chaos]

So why didn't they just move to Siege instead?

 

[Longest Journey]

So why didn't they just move to Siege instead?

Because seige was ridiculous. The only thing it had in common with pre-ren was the open PvP. Everything else was insane. The rules were horribly unfair. You couldnt even sell to NPCs in town for money to get started unless you were Lord or Lady in fame. Not to mention that one character slot on the server was quite possibly the worst move ever considering people were used to having multiple character slots on all the others. Bascially, when you look at seige, it becomes quite clear it was designed to deter players.

Second, they were an established institution of Catskills. Everyone they played with/against was there, their houses were there, their UO lives were there. When trammel came, everything they had accomplished, the respect, their reputation, their RP style, all became moot. They couldnt play who they wanted to play anymore. They tried to fit in on trammel, but it just didnt work.

Thats one of the things Im tired of seeing, people saying go play seige or why didnt they just play seige. Well, if seige were so accurate and so much like classic UO, dont you think people would have been playing it all along instead of asking for classic servers? Seige never was nor will it ever be a solution for those who want for The Second Age/Pre-Reniassance UO.

 

[tenduil]

Well, theres your problem right there. You played Cats post-Ren. You didnt play before then. Catskills pre-ren was great. High RP population, people were always on, and there werent that many reds. I remember guilds like the Griffon Riders, The Phatom Menace, The various branches of the Defenders of Justice. I even remember some of the more infamous reds like Fumanchu, reddog, arcangel, redrum.

I was with the MDJ, Moonglow Defenders of Justice, for a while. I remember one day we cornered a red in the moonglow forest near the teleporters to town near the telescope. He ran then tried to recall, but one of the guild archers shot him and interruped the spell and then we ganked him.

I dont know which RP guild you talked to, but they must have been all post trammel players, because most, if not all, of the vets from that shard were very displeased with trammel. The open PvP of pre-ren allowed for greater RPing by allowing the taking of heads as trophies and not needed to be in a guild war with someone to kill them.

I remember the Shadow Clan Orcs were particularly ticked off about trammel. They couldnt RP like they used to on trammel, not to mention the GMs had given them special reign over the Yew orc fort on Felucca, but they had no one to RP with or against anymore. I mean, they were so good and hard core about their RPing, GMs would sometimes stage events around them. I mean, they tried trammel and tried to adapt, but they just couldnt. they had to completely shift their RP dynamic and it ruined it. Eventually the original Shadow Clan disbanded. Someone tried to revive it later on, but it was short lived.
It was fun. But after trammel, it was sad to see them languish then die out. A Catskills institution wiped out because some people couldnt handle the open PvP.

It was a real shame to watch.....

Exactly. Hell I had times where I would get PK'd then resurrected and given all new, BETTER equipment by the red. The community on Catskills was great before UO:R.
Do I expect a new Classic Shard to be the same? No but it will be what we the players make of it.

 

[Kaleb]

Exactly. Hell I had times where I would get PK'd then resurrected and given all new, BETTER equipment by the red. The community on Catskills was great before UO:R.
Do I expect a new Classic Shard to be the same? No but it will be what we the players make of it.

Pacific was much the same, I remember quite a few times I would run into a PK and they would ask for tribute if no pay they would then try to kill you. There were some areas around GZ's that PK's would wait, entering and leaving town was pretty simple if you took an alternative route. but for the most part they ran around dungeons, They didnt prey on gatherers too much being back then most miners/smiths had either warrior or mage skills, players having 100% crafters back then was rare. Also what made the game so great back then was you could wear cloths or be naked and still be competitive against someone in a full INV set.

 

[woolygimp]

Being Mythic, this is likely never going to happen. They did the same thing for DAOC, revving up player's hopes with promises of an "Origins/Classic" server for Dark Age of Camelot, and then then letting the entire issue faded to obscurity without ever releasing the server.

I see no reason that Mythic will ever follow through on their promises. To this date, no Mythic Origin server exists for DAOC and it hasn't even been discussed by a Mythic rep since 2008. The largest DAOC shard is 'Uthgard' a free "classic" shard with over 1000 clients connected at all times, a population higher than all of DAOCs "ToA" shards put together. It's clear there is a demand, yet no promises fulfilled.

Don't hold your breath guys.

After some recent hints distributed throughout the community, and a poll asking players their opinion on the matter, EA Mythic has decided to go ahead with their newest Origins project. This will introduce players to a blast from the past on a separate "Old Frontiers" server that will use the original rulesets from when the game first launched. Of course, certain game improvements will stay, so it won't be exactly as it was back then, but they're trying this out to see how well it is received by the community.

If you have any questions about how this will work exactly, there are some comprehensive resources posted in FAQ form, and on several forums. Plus, the team will be participating in a live IRC Q&A on Wednesday, June 4th and Thursday, June 5th. One will be held at 6:30 pm EDT for the benefit of their East Coast players, and the other will be held at 9:30 pm EDT for the West Coast players.

A long time ago old Dark Age of Camelot fans were rejoicing when Mythic announced that they were going to be releasing their “Origins” server. Many of the game’s original fans had become disenchanted with DAOC after the release of some controversial expansion packs, and fans had been longing to relive that original DAOC experience.

On June 2nd, 2008, Mythic announced on the Camelot Herald the Origins project and revealed their plan:

“This server is designed to return DAOC to the great game experience it was in 2001/2002, while also applying wisdom from the lessons we have learned since then. DAOC is still a great game, but this server has its own appeal that we ‘old school’ players really enjoyed, and our goal is to get back to that while also continuing to support the other rulesets. Origins will not exactly replicate the game as it was is 2001; we are keeping as a part of server the ‘best features’ we have put into the game since launch, such as housing, horses, the market explorer, UI changes (to name only a few) and many of the improved systems introduced over the years.”

The announcement also goes on to lay out their timeframe for the project:

“The most common question continues to be, “Is this really going to happen?”

Origins has been in development for a couple of months now. We have been working with our Team Leads (as part of the Team Lead program) to work through the various gameplay details, ideas, and issues, while also collecting and reading your feedback. Our schedule requires around four to five months of development. This means that since the server has been in development for two months already, we still have another two to three months before it’s ready for primetime. Right now, launch is slated for the August/September timeframe.”

On July 29th, 2008, Mythic amended their stance regarding their plans for origins by releasing another announcement:

“Initially, we had an aggressive timetable we wanted to meet in order to get this into the players hands as soon as possible. Now, looking at all the feedback and re-examining our own internal goals and objectives for this server, we realize that it’s better to take a step back and take our time with Origins. What this means in practical terms is that you won’t be seeing Origins in the original Aug.-Sept. timeframe. When we are happier with the overall design and functionality, we will begin talking about a launch date. Until then, we thank everyone for participating during this phase of the Origins project.”

It has been almost 6 months, and DAOC fans are left scratching their heads wondering, “Is this really going to happen?” Mythic has yet to give their fans any official updates on the status of the project since then, and now it appears that Mythic has been hit by personnel cuts EA has made due to economic concerns. Mythic no doubt has their hands full with Warhammer Online, which has been wrestling with its own issues. Mark Jacobs made this comment on the Warhammer Alliance regarding the layoffs in regards to Warhammer support:

“It isn’t any more complicated than that other than to say that we have a very large studio and pretty much every person there has been and will continue to work on WAR for quite a while (meaning we haven’t started work on another game yet),” he continued. “When we launched, we had over 400 people working on the game in one capacity or another so it’s not like we had a small team at launch or even a small team now.”

There definitely seems to be a demand for Origins, and you would think that given that demand, Mythic would recognize the opportunity to generate some more revenue from their DAOC brand. I find it amazing that there hasn’t been much of an update on the official site in almost 6 months, and one has to wonder if the revenue opportunity is getting smaller the longer they remain silent.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Wow.

That really makes me doubt that we are ever going to see a UO Classic Shard.

 

[Evlar]

Which is why I jumped ship Morgana. I would love to be proven wrong of course...

 

[Bc-]

daoc had no classic server.

there was talk from mythic about it in late 2008, but since then the discussion has dropped off the face of the earth.

the only way to play the classic daoc experience is a free shard Uthgard which has a higher population than all of Mythic's servers combined.

Will all of the people that have no idea what they are talking about please sit down.

Mythic made THREE classic servers, it started with one but it was WAYYY to popular so they had to multiply it!


Bossiney cluster
Ector(Classic)
Gareth(Classic)
Lamorak(Classic)

http://www.camelotherald.com/news/index.php

Look on the right side. I played on these servers for over a year and had a blast, the population was huge THESE SERVERS BECAME MORE POPULAR THAN THE REGULAR SERVERS AND HAD A HIGHER POPULATION!

Eventually though DAoC died, DAOC is not UO... it is fun but not as good as UO. So now they have merged all of the servers into Ywain.

But what happened was Mythic made an expansion called Trials of Atlantis. It involved Artifacts (hrmm...) pointless Master Levels and completely altered the way the game was played. Gee where have we seen that before? The game went from player crafted armor to camping spawns for drops and scrolls to activate artifacts, which you then had to level. The player base was shocked, they ended up losing a lot of subscriptions.

The Origins idea was thrown around for OLD FRONTIERS. This is where the PvP happens in DAoC. You go to the frontiers and you take keeps, eventually after TOA they came out with an X Pac called New Frontiers, with a totally re designed keep system. This ended up peeing a lot of people off as well because now travel time to find fights was increased 10 fold. Before you just ported into a huge zone, Emain Macha, and fought your face off all night.

So people quit again, and came on to boards like this and begged BEGGED for an Old Frontiers server. Mythic said we will make Origins. They drew it back because the population was so weak. They were unable to populate all of their servers.. but this has changed since they clustered Ywain. The game is packed again and there is non stop action every night including a lot of 8 man guilds returning from the old days, myself and friends included. This was part of a staged process, one of the stages of that process is the construction of an Origins shard. It was based off of he success of the cluster and the size of the increased player base. The deli ma for Mythic right now is, do they make this Origins shard at the risk of Ywain (similar to how classic servers killed TOA servers) or do they sit with what they have now..?

One thing they are considering is outside subscriptions. Players coming back, the same thing that will drive the necessary player base for UO's classic server. Which actually would be fitting to be named ORIGINs... get it?

There is a key difference between DAoC and UO though, and that is UO still has a decently healthy player base on all of its shards, along with some that are actually quite packed. DAoC does not. It has one cluster left out of all its shards that has a healthy pop, and they need to population. They can't afford to gamble with it, but in UO they can... because there is enough subscriptions and NEW PLAYERS to keep the game running on its current shards and still support a new one with the combination of new players.

Basically it comes down to resources, Mythic ran out of the necessary resources to get Origins done. Even with the backing of the Classics, the player base was still dwindling. But before you all come out and say SEE CLASSIC UO WILL KILL THIS GAME!!! DAoC was clinically dead before the classic servers were made, all those servers did was breathe new life into the game for another year and give it some time to live again. If anything, Classic servers saved DAoC.

Also to add, at the time Warhammer was coming into fruition and DAoC's resources were cut even lower as more and more were funneled towards the development of that game.

 

[woolygimp]

Will all of the people that have no idea what they are talking about please sit down.

Mythic made THREE classic servers, it started with one but it was WAYYY to popular so they had to multiply it!


Bossiney cluster
Ector(Classic)
Gareth(Classic)
Lamorak(Classic)

http://www.camelotherald.com/news/index.php

Look on the right side. I played on these servers for over a year and had a blast, the population was huge THESE SERVERS BECAME MORE POPULAR THAN THE REGULAR SERVERS AND HAD A HIGHER POPULATION!

Eventually though DAoC died, DAOC is not UO... it is fun but not as good as UO. So now they have merged all of the servers into Ywain.

But what happened was Mythic made an expansion called Trials of Atlantis. It involved Artifacts (hrmm...) pointless Master Levels and completely altered the way the game was played. Gee where have we seen that before? The game went from player crafted armor to camping spawns for drops and scrolls to activate artifacts, which you then had to level. The player base was shocked, they ended up losing a lot of subscriptions.

The Origins idea was thrown around for OLD FRONTIERS. This is where the PvP happens in DAoC. You go to the frontiers and you take keeps, eventually after TOA they came out with an X Pac called New Frontiers, with a totally re designed keep system. This ended up peeing a lot of people off as well because now travel time to find fights was increased 10 fold. Before you just ported into a huge zone, Emain Macha, and fought your face off all night.

So people quit again, and came on to boards like this and begged BEGGED for an Old Frontiers server. Mythic said we will make Origins. They drew it back because the population was so weak. They were unable to populate all of their servers.. but this has changed since they clustered Ywain. The game is packed again and there is non stop action every night including a lot of 8 man guilds returning from the old days, myself and friends included. This was part of a staged process, one of the stages of that process is the construction of an Origins shard. It was based off of he success of the cluster and the size of the increased player base. The deli ma for Mythic right now is, do they make this Origins shard at the risk of Ywain (similar to how classic servers killed TOA servers) or do they sit with what they have now..?

One thing they are considering is outside subscriptions. Players coming back, the same thing that will drive the necessary player base for UO's classic server. Which actually would be fitting to be named ORIGINs... get it?

There is a key difference between DAoC and UO though, and that is UO still has a decently healthy player base on all of its shards, along with some that are actually quite packed. DAoC does not. It has one cluster left out of all its shards that has a healthy pop, and they need to population. They can't afford to gamble with it, but in UO they can... because there is enough subscriptions and NEW PLAYERS to keep the game running on its current shards and still support a new one with the combination of new players.

stfu. please.

there is nothing classic about the daoc classic servers, they have all the new changes including the new, horrible, archery changes, all of the expansion classes, which are horribly imbalanced, and still use the new frontiers. I think the only thing they are missing a few things from their latest expansion.

And these "classic" servers have been around for years, and classic is just another way of differing them from the normal servers... because they aren't classic in any definition of the word.

The closest analogy to the "classic UO shard" would be a DAOC "origins" server which has never happened, and is unlikely to ever happen.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Hey this isn't a DAOC thread... and btw...

wth ...

and ...

Be ashamed for doubting and killing hope ! Who cares if we hope up for years. TiiiiiiIIiiiime is on my side ! You'll come runnin back !

 

[Bc-]

stfu. please.

there is nothing classic about the daoc classic servers, they have all the new changes including the new, horrible, archery changes, all of the expansion classes, which are horribly imbalanced, and still use the new frontiers. I think the only thing they are missing a few things from their latest expansion.

Right the only thing they are missing is Artifacts and Master Levels.

Oh and also, buff bots, ya those aren't the three biggest aspects of the game at all, you are totally right, exactly the same.

But I guess I should save my breath because your reply will be edited or deleted shortly by a mod.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

is your reply any better ? honestly... personal attacks are against the RoC... well exept when its against me.

So if you have to bash on someone ; use me.

 

[omgmir]

Hey this isn't a DAOC thread

^

Take it somewhere else. You started off good with useful Mythic information and quickly turned into a flame fest.

 

[woolygimp]

Right the only thing they are missing is Artifacts and Master Levels.

Oh and also, buff bots, ya those aren't the three biggest aspects of the game at all, you are totally right, exactly the same.

But I guess I should save my breath because your reply will be edited or deleted shortly by a mod. Nice work, are all the grade 3s this cranky around nap time?

Removing Artifacts, Master Levels, and Buffbots and keeping everything else in the game is not "classic" daoc by any definition of the word.

It'd be like making a "classic UO server" but keeping everything in the game except Stygian Abyss.

Nothing classic about it, and nothing classy about your post telling me to sit down. Uthgard which is a true DAOC classic server has a higher population than the entire cluster.

 

[Bc-]

Removing Artifacts, Master Levels, and Buffbots and keeping everything else in the game is not "classic" daoc by any definition of the word.

It'd be like making a "classic UO server" but keeping everything in the game except Stygian Abyss.

Nothing classic about it, and nothing classy about your post telling me to sit down. Uthgard which is a true DAOC classic server has a higher population than the entire cluster.

Man how can.. ok did you play DAoC? Did you honestly play it? All the way from release?

Do you remember when you wore crafted armor? Do you remember when you didn't have to do Master Levels and farm scrolls for Artifacts? What would you call that? "Old" DAoC? Ok I can change the word if you don't like it..

And you are wrong, it would be like making a shard and tearing out AoS+Tokonu+Stygian Abyss. The only thing they had on the Classic server were champ weaps and dragon armor, neither were enough to make an entire template out of, or completely alter the playing field. But you can't compare the two because DAOC is an item based game from the start, so it just isn't even a fair comparison. Of course it isn't the EXACT same game, they never said it would be bro, it was just a nice label for TOA FREE SERVER.

But look at the list people decided on for this server, is that EXACTLY how UO was in 97? 98? 99? 2000? 2001? 2002? 2003? 2004? 2005? 2006? Yesterday?

No.

The word Classic is more associated with the feeling it inspires than the actual rule set. I got a Classic feel playing on Lamorak. It felt like I was back in the old days of DAOC, people were actually using Barrows and Salisbury Plains again!

This is what we are after for UO.

And just screw the rule set for 2 minutes, honestly just forget about everything. The point I was trying to make wasn't how close they were to making it an Origins server, or anything for that matter, just forget all of that. The point I was making, is that Mythic has in the past admitted that maybe one of their expansions was a mistake, maybe it hurt their game and their player base more than it helped. They were actually able to recognize this, ok lots of companies do that, but they were able to ADMIT IT. That is what breeds hope for me in a Classic UO server. It won't be a clone, it will never be the same, but we can create the opportunity to play the game in the same way we once would. Without the Artifacts, without the fast casting, without all of it. It will never, ever be perfect, it won't. But it will be A LOT better than what we have, and it will have the official EA stamp on it so we know we have account security and your time investment will never feel wasted like it is on a lot of these free shards that come up and down over night.

Mythic identified a problem in their past, they admitted it, and they did something about it. I think they will do the same for UO.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

is your reply any better ? honestly... personal attacks are against the RoC... well exept when its against me.

So if you have to bash on someone ; use me.

Hmmm...I have this new toy I am just dying to try out...

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

 

[Evlar]

 

[Babble]

Damn and I wanted to argue that Mythic had made a classic server once and wanted to ask how successful it was ... well if it never happened then I guess it was a failure.

SOE though die try a classic expansion on their servers where after time all expansions in succession were being unlocked. Anyone has any idea how that fared?

Or are classic servers by companies just doomed as they do not attract enough money for corporate business?