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Classic shard.

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T

tenduil

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I hope that I didn't come off like that...but I think that Cal has to understand that there are those of us that are extremely passionate about this subject. If he read the posts here, and wasn't just cherry picking (which he could have been) then I think his response was somewhat insulting. It more or less dismisses the concerns and desires that so many of us share...in short, it was a snub.

I really hope I am wrong, and I fully understand the gravity of this subject...but more importantly, I hope the devs do as well.

Cal was the only dev that has ever publicly mentioned the possibility of a Classic Shard...so I hope that he can take some criticism for his post. Feelings and memories run really deep on this subject of some of us, and I think an open and honest approach would be preferable to what we are getting so far.



This may not be popular (like anything I have to say ever is)...but we (the players) need to keep in mind that for the developers...this is a job. They are not fans, they are not players (at least probably not before they were devs), and it is not their passion. They do what they do because they are paid to do so, whereas...you, me, and every other active UO player actually PAY to do what we do. So when it comes to issues like this one, their perspective is probably going to be one of 'what will yield us the least work'. This is completely understandable for me. I know that whiny customers that want this and that can be great big pains in the arse!

So in the end, don't expect much empathy from the devs. I don't say that to offend them, or to slam them...but because I can empathize with them. I hate it when my company has a system in place that works, and someone finds something that they don't like...for no apparent reason...but they want it changed nonetheless, and it takes many labor hours to do it. What's funny, is in the end, they generally aren't any happier...because the truth is, they didn't really know what they wanted to begin with! rolleyes:

However...I don't think the Classic UO community falls into that category. We know what we want...because we had it once...and it was taken from us.
I agree but also I think it needs to be looked at from a simple business perspective.

What would the cost be of putting together a classic shard and 'maintaining' it when maintenance would be minimal? Then get a good estimate of the expected number of new subscriptions because of a classic shard.

Simple Profit and Loss statement. If the bottom line is in the black do it. If its in the red don't.

Considering the residual income of new subscribers is highly likely to be more than the ongoing cost of server maintenance I believe a Classic shard is financially viable for them.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Simple Profit and Loss statement. If the bottom line is in the black do it. If its in the red don't.
No offense...but you cannot generate a P&L statement from projections.

There is more to this than the shard itself. As others have pointed out, the funds that go into UO are not necessarily the funds that run it. EA budgets Mythic on revenue projections, and Mythic budgets the UO team based on revenue projections. It is not possible to accurately project a variable like how many players will return or join due to a Classic Shard. This would be a risk...pure and simple.

The only thing that Mythic can do to determine interest in a Classic Shard would be to utilize some kind of in game voting or official polling...and even that has to be considered a dirty sample.

It really comes down to this...

...is there someone, anyone, at Mythic that believes enough in a Classic Shard to pitch the idea to EA? Otherwise, they will never see a dime in budgetary increases for such a project.

*EDIT- Unless of course a way could be found to create such a shard WITHOUT the need for a budgetary increase... wink, nudge*
 
D

dum3886

Guest
Nice... 2 word comment from a dev that pretty much says... lol u wrote 9 pages of this **** and we never had a Classic UO shard on the table in the first place.

Hello Free Shards :D.. Good Bye EA
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Nice... 2 word comment from a dev that pretty much says... lol u wrote 9 pages of this **** and we never had a Classic UO shard on the table in the first place.

Hello Free Shards :D.. Good Bye EA
I am not convinced this is what he was saying.

Give it a day or so...as I am...and see where this goes...please.
 
D

dum3886

Guest
I'll just add a bit here then.. i'll give it a while and see how things go. I currently live in Australia but im leaving in like 1 yr i think so i wun be able to find a good shard to play on till i leave anyway so plenty of time to think :).

But just a note to devs: The reason why people will move to your shard from a free shard is because they want security. I would much prefer an EA classic shard than any other free shard bcz i get the security that the shard will be there tomorrow and not closed just bcz the "owner" got tired or maybe that he left for a job and is too busy to keep the server up etc... I'm sure a lot of people r in the same boat. If i join a free shard i will be pvping only... i wun be able to collect rares.. decorate or anything bcz why bother? it could be gone in an hr.. in a day.. in a month...

As for people talking about a "perfect game" no game is perfect... but the old UO was good enough. If anything it was better than the one now. Just read on another post... there is a "Sleep" spell now? What the fk is this....................... WoW Version -5.0? com'n... look at the direction of this game... it is just a WoW but like Negative beta version or sumthing, its ridiculous. Why would people pay for a WoW knockoff when this game was always meant to be a game for a niche market? A niche market that isn't even small... look at any MMORPG website... UO is talked about on a daily basis bcz of it so called "sand box game style" there is almost no game out there that can match uo in regards to this.
 

mikni

Seasoned Veteran
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Nice... 2 word comment from a dev that pretty much says... lol u wrote 9 pages of this **** and we never had a Classic UO shard on the table in the first place.

Hello Free Shards :D.. Good Bye EA
I think he was just pointing out it was a well written post discussing the problems.

In the '[UO Herald] Producer's Letter - April 2010' thread he sounded a lot more positive. At least I read it like he wants to go ahead with [fights for] a classic server.

Here's the post:
http://vboards.stratics.com/showpost.php?p=1669512&postcount=54
 
A

AesSedai

Guest
Regarding this comment:
Well-crafted :)
- I hardly think that having the producer acknowledge the inherent difficulties in developing and maintaining such a 'new' shard is the equivalent of the cancellation of any consideration toward creating such a 'new' shard or shards.

But I am glad to read him (Uriah 'Cal') acknowledge both that:
- It will be extremely difficult to strike a happy medium and appeal to what it is that defines 'classic' for most (yeah, yeah, that seems to be what some are trying to hash out right now...).
-and that-
- It will require a significant amount of resources to develop and maintain.

And even if this thread precisely determined when the best past of UO was, I still think those two points alone merit much consideration before ever committing to a project such as this. As I've said all along, as some of you are already aware.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
It really comes down to this...

...is there someone, anyone, at Mythic that believes enough in a Classic Shard to pitch the idea to EA? Otherwise, they will never see a dime in budgetary increases for such a project.
...

We've made the business case for it a few times, it honestly comes down to committing AND making sure we can support it. I know this doesn't answer the question completely, but please know it's all I can tell you at this time.
Perhaps I, and others, have misjudged Cal_Mythic??

Perhaps he is the person that we need to pitch this idea to the Mythic management, or to EA??

Again, let's all wait and see how this plays out. I think Cal's post was purposefully vague.

.......................................................................................................

And, Cal, if I offended...I apologize. I hope you will understand how your post could have been taken in the wrong way.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Just to lighten the mood here...

[YOUTUBE]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/AFZgWyksz2s&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/AFZgWyksz2s&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

:lol:
 

Storm

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Rofl omg now thats some funny stuff there !! 2 thumbs up!
 

Ahuaeyjnkxs

stranger diamond
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couldn't help but notice the hot link at the end with markee dragon in a jumpsuit talking about masters of UO...

rolleyes:
 

Derium of ls

Slightly Crazed
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...



Perhaps I, and others, have misjudged Cal_Mythic??

Perhaps he is the person that we need to pitch this idea to the Mythic management, or to EA??

Again, let's all wait and see how this plays out. I think Cal's post was purposefully vague.

.......................................................................................................

And, Cal, if I offended...I apologize. I hope you will understand how your post could have been taken in the wrong way.



so uhhhh, they have been talking about a classic server since 2003? and fixing speed hacking (how long has that been?) is above the classic shard. By the sounds of it, I will have to check back in 10 more years to see if they even put actual thought into it.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Honestly, with the open PvP nature of a Classic Shard...would you want to play it with speed hackers??

But I do understand where you are coming from...and like said above...give it a little time, and let's see where this is going.
 
H

Heartseeker

Guest
An so the EA Saga continues......

The carrot has been dangled; the mystic words of ...soon...on the radar... we need to fix this first, and we will look at it again in the future.

If anything EA has always been consistent.

That consistency of bad decisions, and creating what no one wants is their staple to success...sarcasm...

So take heart folks, they didn't say no... they never would; that would lead to canceled subs. Better to keep people hoping.....

There is only one way to not support their decisions....by not supporting EA..$$$$$
 

ProZac

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I guess the hostility isn't going to help get our points across any better. I've tried to remain constructive as many have in this post, but it's very easy to be pushed a little overboard on this topic for me. Classic UO is something a lot of people hold very near and dear, and have an unwavering passion for. I am one of those people; any MMO I have played and will play from here on out I will compare in the back of my head to my experiences with classic UO whether I want to or not. I can understand people that do not share those feelings being threatened and annoyed by those that do. Hopefully we have made our argument clear enough to Cal and company and we can get some sort of closure on this topic for good in the near future.
 
L

Longest Journey

Guest
I guess the hostility isn't going to help get our points across any better. I've tried to remain constructive as many have in this post, but it's very easy to be pushed a little overboard on this topic for me. Classic UO is something a lot of people hold very near and dear, and have an unwavering passion for. I am one of those people; any MMO I have played and will play from here on out I will compare in the back of my head to my experiences with classic UO whether I want to or not. I can understand people that do not share those feelings being threatened and annoyed by those that do. Hopefully we have made our argument clear enough to Cal and company and we can get some sort of closure on this topic for good in the near future.
Hmmm, I wonder what would cause hostility?

could it be because people posted their hearts out for over 10 pages, countering every point against classic servers, supporting something they have wanted for over 10 years, only to have a developer compliment a post against the classic servers?.......

...........one would think so.......
 

ProZac

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I agree with a lot of your statements. I think it's clear the entire PC gaming industry is run by a few fat cats who really couldn't care less about the players. All they see is the $$$. Most all of the people who truly care have jumped ship. Even games like WoW that are extremely healthy and generating disgusting amounts of money continue to insult their customers with offerings of pixel crack for a few dollars or charging excessive amounts of money for character transfers, customization, etc. EA had UO jump ALL over the possibility of generating that extra revenue back when we saw advanced characters come out of nowhere. Everything else followed shortly thereafter and took a chunk of the life of the game with it.

The people who make the big decisions do not play UO or care about how good of an argument we have if it potentially costs them. I read a post on another forum from Mark Jacobs (Mythic co-founder/CEO since 1995) that he had to convince EA to not shut down UO when the EAMythic merger happened. Since then Mythic has been slammed by EA, merged with Bioware, and the CEO of 15 years with infinite passion for the industry bailed. Kind of makes you wonder what kind of agreement EA had in order to keep UO running - maybe they gave them one expansion to turn things around? Hope not.
 

Derium of ls

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Honestly, with the open PvP nature of a Classic Shard...would you want to play it with speed hackers??

But I do understand where you are coming from...and like said above...give it a little time, and let's see where this is going.

of course I don't want to deal with speed hackers. but speedhacking has seemingly been on the back burner for a long time. makes me think the classic server is nowhere near the kitchen =(
 
D

dum3886

Guest
lol.. so it is true... the current UO is doing SO poorly that it almost got axed and the CEO of a EA subsidiary actually had to BEG to keep it alive.

I have restarted UO about 3 times... i dun think after hearing that, that i can do it again (unless things change)... why bother if it already has one of its legs in a coffin.
 

Llewen

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Are you kidding, or have you just never bothered to read anything I have posted before?

I have a masters degree in computer science. I am a VP in charge of all IT and Development at the company I work for.
Congratulations, assuming I can take what you have written at face value, then you of all people should understand that what I have written is true. They would need to know this is going to be a responsible financial decision before they commit the necessary resources to it.

I find your condescending attitude to be repulsive. YES! It is true! A WOMAN can be a software engineer! And...GASP!...she can even manage their department!!!
Please, give me a break. This has nothing to do with whether you are a woman, a man, a hermaphrodite, or someone from another solar system altogether. Playing that card doesn't do anything for your credibility. I know nothing about you, you could be a woman, a man, twelve years old or eighty two. You could be of Chinese, German, or African descent, or any of the other innumerable cultures and subcultures. I don't know, and it doesn't matter...

I have NEVER claimed that starting a Classic Shard would be possible through using old code alone, I have NEVER even suggested that it should even be approached in such a way, and I have NEVER suggested that the Devs could use Free Shard code. In fact, I have ... on many occasions ... corrected anyone that claims that they could use Free Shard code.
You may not have, but others have, and I apologize if my statements on that subject were directed at you. This is a long thread and I haven't read large sections of it. And I missed the home made UO videos.

And THERE is the real answer to the question of why you do not support a Classic Shard.

It has NOTHING to do with the effort that it would require, and NOTHING to do with "development bandwidth" (not even a real term).

It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that you are a fan of the current system and feel threatened by those of us that are not.
Which rather makes me wonder if you know as much about the industry as you claim to. Or perhaps it is just that your field of expertise is IT, and not software development, let alone game development?

Setting aside that fact that you are effectively calling me a liar... ;) Do I feel threatened by a classic shard?

I'm not quite sure how to answer that question. The devs are clearly paying attention to what is going on on these forums. Which is terrific, but also rather frightening. There is no way of knowing whether the opinions on these forums are representative of the larger client base, or potential client base.

Forums on the internet and forums dedicated to games like UO tend to be dominated by a kind of mob mentality. Certain topics will catch fire and start to take on a life of their own, which often has little connection to any kind of practicality, or little, if any factual basis.

My only concern is that the devs don't assume that, based on what they have read on this forum, based on the interest in a topic which is largely kept alive by a very few people, a classic shard is going to be wildly successful. I don't want them to pour resources into a classic shard that might be more wisely relegated somewhere else, and end up damaging the entire franchise as a result.

If they have done their homework, and they have done some solid market research, and they know they have the resources in terms of development bandwidth, and everything else that goes along with starting up a new shard with a rules set that is distinct from the regular shards, then great, I'm all for a classic shard. I'll even at the very least check it out.

Oh, and my philosophy with regard to gender on the internet? All the women are men, and all the little girls are federal agents - keep that in mind and your chances of getting in trouble as a single middle aged man, will be significantly lower... ;)
 

Llewen

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I'll just add one more thing. I know there are a lot of people with fond memories of the old days in UO. You meet them everywhere you go in the internet gaming universe. That is one thing that has me thinking that a classic shard might well succeed. I'm generally of the opinion that "you can never go back" and that there is no way anyone will ever be able to recreate the magic of those days, but you never know.
 
U

Unsatisfied

Guest
I'll just add one more thing. I know there are a lot of people with fond memories of the old days in UO. You meet them everywhere you go in the internet gaming universe. That is one thing that has me thinking that a classic shard might well succeed. I'm generally of the opinion that "you can never go back" and that there is no way anyone will ever be able to recreate the magic of those days, but you never know.
I think most people understand by now that you can never recreate the "magic" of those days. But it doesnt stop them from wanting the next closest thing, which would be to play the style that we played when that magic existed.
 

Llewen

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I guess the hostility isn't going to help get our points across any better. I've tried to remain constructive as many have in this post, but it's very easy to be pushed a little overboard on this topic for me.
I understand that you and a lot of other people are pretty passionate about this topic. I'm passionate about games as well, for better or worse.

Just to lighten the mood here...

:lol:
Man, I want to live where that guy lives! He has banana trees in his back yard!
 
T

Trebr Drab

Guest
I'll just add one more thing. I know there are a lot of people with fond memories of the old days in UO. You meet them everywhere you go in the internet gaming universe. That is one thing that has me thinking that a classic shard might well succeed. I'm generally of the opinion that "you can never go back" and that there is no way anyone will ever be able to recreate the magic of those days, but you never know.
I think most people understand by now that you can never recreate the "magic" of those days. But it doesnt stop them from wanting the next closest thing, which would be to play the style that we played when that magic existed.
Yeah, and as time has gone by, we players are understanding what we want in an MMORPG too. We're learning, generally speaking, why the level grinds get boring, and what worked from old UO, and how that should be applied. We want "more", and are realizing what that "more" is, how it works, and what's good about it. It's a different kind of game from level grinds and quest driven content and hack'n'slash.
So it's not wanting to go back, it's wanting to capture a better game experience. A world, not just a game.
 

ProZac

Seasoned Veteran
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I'll just add one more thing. I know there are a lot of people with fond memories of the old days in UO. You meet them everywhere you go in the internet gaming universe. That is one thing that has me thinking that a classic shard might well succeed. I'm generally of the opinion that "you can never go back" and that there is no way anyone will ever be able to recreate the magic of those days, but you never know.
I get what you're saying, but it is more than just people wanting to re-live memories. Myself and many others believe that classic UO was an all around better game and gaming experience than what we have now. If UO was as it is now when it was released, I would have never played it. The fact is that classic shards are striving because of their gameplay. I'm not sure how much can and can't be said on Stratics about freeshards nowadays, but there is a very clear cut example if you look at them.

There are freeshard teams who run popular shards and have both AoS and UOR versions. They are as close to the original OSI counterpart as possible. In every instance of this, the UOR shards have a MUCH higher and healthy population, while the AoS shards are staggering. This is simply due to people preferring the UOR play style over AoS.
 
E

eurin

Guest
I wanted to chime in. I came back last year with 2 RL friends and we brought along 2 people that never played UO (I originally played UO from 97-2001, tried AoS for a month when it was new). We had fun playing with some of the new stuff, but the AoS items absolutely kill what we remember of UO (we played on Siege, so Trammel wasn't a problem).

In old UO, a death was a nuisance, not the loss of hours or days of equipment. You had a stock pile of GM suits and weapons (that drove a player run economy). You die? Suit up and go back out. The game was about playing and having fun, it wasn't about trying to get artifacts.

If they made a classic shard, I'd love to see T2A ruleset, with some newer features, especially skill and stat locking. The particular ruleset doesn't matter. When IPY launched, it used rules closer to when the game launch the server was flooded with players (until corruption killed it, I'd prefer to pay EA for a secure experience). As long as the old item system is back, I'll play any ruleset. Even if they used the newer skills and special weapon attacks (assuming they make sure they are reasonably balanced with old item properties).

UO is definitely in trouble. I have no doubt that an officially run classic shard could draw up a lot of interest. Word spreads fast, and there is a lot of reminiscing on any gaming forum about old UO. You'll get old guys returning, and new people wanting to experience it. All newer games are based around items and grinding, there is nothing like old UO.
 
U

Unsatisfied

Guest
I get what you're saying, but it is more than just people wanting to re-live memories. Myself and many others believe that classic UO was an all around better game and gaming experience than what we have now. If UO was as it is now when it was released, I would have never played it. The fact is that classic shards are striving because of their gameplay. I'm not sure how much can and can't be said on Stratics about freeshards nowadays, but there is a very clear cut example if you look at them.

There are freeshard teams who run popular shards and have both AoS and UOR versions. They are as close to the original OSI counterpart as possible. In every instance of this, the UOR shards have a MUCH higher and healthy population, while the AoS shards are staggering. This is simply due to people preferring the UOR play style over AoS.
Too true, this has all been said throughout the thread but another person saying it just helps show its not just a couple of us that think this way, and were not talking out our asses.
 

Llewen

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There are freeshard teams who run popular shards and have both AoS and UOR versions. They are as close to the original OSI counterpart as possible. In every instance of this, the UOR shards have a MUCH higher and healthy population, while the AoS shards are staggering. This is simply due to people preferring the UOR play style over AoS.
I'm not trying to put you down here, but there is a perfectly reasonable explanation why the "classic" shards would have a higher population. There is no official "classic" option, so the only place you can find that game play experience is on free shards. The standard shards would be competing directly with the official shards. Having said that, if what you say is true that might be a good indication that a "classic" shard would in fact be economically viable.
 
T

tenduil

Guest
I'm still interested and appreciate the comments from the Dev on the classic shard though it tells me that any potential classic shard will be at least a year.

If the plan is to fix things for the next few months and then do XX AND then do YY a classic shard isn't something happening anytime soon.

I can tell you however, that the priority is to fix what we've set out to do for these next few months ... and to support the plan of rebuilding Magincia ... AND solving the perception and actual impact of speedhackers in the game.
I'll keep up to date on it but it seems like another string along or at least a low chance of actually happening. Back to my T2A free shard!
 

ProZac

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I'm not trying to put you down here, but there is a perfectly reasonable explanation why the "classic" shards would have a higher population. There is no official "classic" option, so the only place you can find that game play experience is on free shards. The standard shards would be competing directly with the official shards. Having said that, if what you say is true that might be a good indication that a "classic" shard would in fact be economically viable.
What you say here also makes sense. I don't see it as "competing" when in the end the money is still going toward Ultima Online and improving the game that we all love. And while it is true these freeshards are the only place you can go for classic UO, many many people (including myself) do not play them due to the inherent corruption with a non-official system. That, and the lack of security in your time/effort spent is a huge turn off. I think that it's become more than clear both sides could be argued until the end of time and hold valid points. If the game were actually in a healthy state I could maybe understand the lack of support for this idea, but given that this boat is about to capsize it's kind of a "what do we have to lose?" scenario. Either it fails and we have maybe a tenth of the effort that would have gone toward another failed expansion wasted, or it succeeds and keeps fueling the fire.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Or perhaps it is just that your field of expertise is IT, and not software development, let alone game development?
My expertise is indeed in the field of IT, but I have done more than my fair share of coding in my day. These days, I oversee projects...including software development...but I have team leads underneath me that handle the coders. And...no, I have never been involved in game development...and I never claimed to have been.


My only concern is that the devs don't assume that, based on what they have read on this forum, based on the interest in a topic which is largely kept alive by a very few people, a classic shard is going to be wildly successful. I don't want them to pour resources into a classic shard that might be more wisely relegated somewhere else, and end up damaging the entire franchise as a result.
I think we all know that you are pretty much against a Classic Shard...and why. However, it would seem you are one of a handful of outspoken opponents to the idea...whereas most people here either are for it, or at least are not against the idea enough to be actively fighting it.
 
M

Megilhir

Guest
A simple observation. Remove Morgana LeFay's posts along with oraborean debate cycles and the thread is reduced by almost 1/2.

Not to pick on her, but really, take out one ot two prolific posters debating back and forth and the content of this thread is really very simple.

Most posters appear to want an environment that doesn't have all the things that has blended UO from Unique to Similiar with all other MMO's.

Again, this is not an attempt to cipher or censor Morgana LeFay or anyone else. Just observation.
 

Magdalene

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a. they forgot bandages
b. looks like Trinsic walls...
c. definitely Fel side
:)
 

Llewen

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If the game were actually in a healthy state I could maybe understand the lack of support for this idea, but given that this boat is about to capsize it's kind of a "what do we have to lose?" scenario.
I don't see that. I don't know the exact numbers, but my shard, Catskills, is still pretty active, I see people every day, at all times of day, and there are lots and lots of houses around that are actually owned by people with active accounts. You can still buy just about anything you could want in either Luna or Zento. I find pvp every day, either at Yew gate, or at champ spawns.

I've said this many times, people start saying an MMO is dying or dead before it is officially released, and they keep saying it until the day the MMO does actually shut down. I've never been a client of an MMO that actually failed, so I don't know what that really looks like, but I do know that you can't take anyone's word on a forum that an MMO is dying, because that message is a constant.

I'm sure if I did some searching I wouldn't have to look too hard to find people posting that WoW is dying, and probably people were posting that before it was released as well. And we all know how ridiculous that is.

I think we all know that you are pretty much against a Classic Shard...and why. However, it would seem you are one of a handful of outspoken opponents to the idea...whereas most people here either are for it, or at least are not against the idea enough to be actively fighting it.
Well, it's not that simple. I would be all for a classic shard if it replaced Siege and Mugen, because I think those shards are seriously underpopulated, and the development bandwidth they require is wildly out of proportion to the numbers that actually call those shards home. And it's just a guess, but I expect that a classic shard is what most of the people playing Siege and Mugen are actually looking for. I'm also trying to inject a note of reality.

I was dead against the idea at the start of this recent mini tidal wave of discussion on the subject, but you and others have changed my mind, in part by the passion you have for the idea, and in part by the response I've seen from others, and in part by returning memories of past experiences with other games where it is clear that "old school UO" was very much loved.

But yes, I've expressed my opinions many times, perhaps more forcefully than I needed to at times, but in the end, I'm ambivalent. If it is proceeded with, and if you want my honest opinion, I think there is a good chance that it will be with this dev team, I certainly won't be hoping it fails, and I will probably be one of the first to create a character on that shard.

I believe that Prozac told me to go back to Darkfall Online. The fact that that is a full loot, wide open pvp MMO, with skill based character advancement, should tell you something. I enjoyed the time I spent there, and I think it is a terrific game, but there are features that UO has that no other game that I've seen has, including Darkfall Online, that keep drawing me back.
 
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
A simple observation. Remove Morgana LeFay's posts along with oraborean debate cycles and the thread is reduced by almost 1/2.

Not to pick on her, but really, take out one ot two prolific posters debating back and forth and the content of this thread is really very simple.

Most posters appear to want an environment that doesn't have all the things that has blended UO from Unique to Similiar with all other MMO's.

Again, this is not an attempt to cipher or censor Morgana LeFay or anyone else. Just observation.
Yes...I have posted a great deal on this subject...but I am not sure why my opinions should be discounted. There are many that share my opinions on the subject, but don't devote the same amount of time and energy to it as I do.

I have no desire to derail any meaningful conversation though...so if the bulk of the posters here want me to cease posting in the thread, then I will do so.

This is just one subject (probably the ONLY subject that pertains to UO these days) that I feel very strongly about...and I have a tendency to be overly vocal about it.

Sorry if I have posted too much, or too often.
 
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Megilhir

Guest
Yes...I have posted a great deal on this subject...but I am not sure why my opinions should be discounted. There are many that share my opinions on the subject, but don't devote the same amount of time and energy to it as I do.

I have no desire to derail any meaningful conversation though...so if the bulk of the posters here want me to cease posting in the thread, then I will do so.

This is just one subject (probably the ONLY subject that pertains to UO these days) that I feel very strongly about...and I have a tendency to be overly vocal about it.

Sorry if I have posted too much, or too often.
As I specifically wrote, not to pick on you, just an example. Not THE example. :)
 

ProZac

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I don't see that. I don't know the exact numbers, but my shard, Catskills, is still pretty active, I see people every day, at all times of day, and there are lots and lots of houses around that are actually owned by people with active accounts. You can still buy just about anything you could want in either Luna or Zento. I find pvp every day, either at Yew gate, or at champ spawns.
You can't be serious, heh... The only time there is more than 5-10 people at Yew gate on Catskills is prime-time. No other gate in Fel has anything going on. Not sure if you were around, but there was a time when Yew gate ALWAYS had 20-50 people fighting, while simultaneously Britain and Bucs gate had around the same amount, and pvp was going in on somewhere in nearly every city and dungeon. I personally ran a guild on Catskills twice over the past 3 years that was primarily for spawn raiding. With a group of 5 we were able to pull off pretty much any spawn on the shard without an issues. There would be entire days where we would scout and not a single spawn other than Despise was happening, and over half of the time it would be a Trammie doing it by himself. We grew to about 10-15 strong and were able to control the entire shard including prime-time/announced harrowers. If that to you is "pretty active" for an MMORPG then I don't know what to tell you. I didn't even get into the amount of people found at banks and Trammel-side that have almost completely disappeared. Hell, Doom alone used to have 40-50 people constantly. And no, they're not all out in Malas and new lands doing that crap.

Most of the hardcore pvpers I know these days have to have a pvper on ALL of the active shards to keep from dying of boredom and not fighting the same 20 different people day in and day out.
 

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
You can't be serious, heh...
Compared to UO's zenith around ten years ago, obviously there aren't as many clients, but compared to three years ago when I was here, I don't see all that much of a difference. And this has been said many times, but there is a lot more to UO than pvp and Doom. The hot spots have shifted around, as have shop locations, but they are still there.

Anyway, I'm sure it's pointless to argue with you. We'll just make an appointment for ten years from now when you can come back and tell me the game is dying again... ;)
 
T

tenduil

Guest
Compared to UO's zenith around ten years ago, obviously there aren't as many clients, but compared to three years ago when I was here, I don't see all that much of a difference. And this has been said many times, but there is a lot more to UO than pvp and Doom. The hot spots have shifted around, as have shop locations, but they are still there.

Anyway, I'm sure it's pointless to argue with you. We'll just make an appointment for ten years from now when you can come back and tell me the game is dying again... ;)
I've honestly given EA shards a shot and came back.. twice before. Both times I was horribly disappointed. I played on catskills and siege yet barely saw any people. I got on at all times of the day and supposed peak times yet rarely saw more than 15 people total. Perhaps for you and a difference of 3 years yes maybe nothing has changed but compared to prior to 2002 the EA shards are empty.

A classic shard solves this problem in many ways. First it limits the land mass and available area for players therefore forcing them to be in closer proximity to each other and form a community. Next by creating communities (real vibrant communities not the small ones on ea shards now) excitement is built in the game and players have an enjoyable experience. This encourages retention and growth.

I'll stand by the prediction that if EA created a Classic shard it would be the highest population server available; AND it would be noticeable.
 
D

dum3886

Guest
"Well, it's not that simple. I would be all for a classic shard if it replaced Siege and Mugen, because I think those shards are seriously underpopulated, and the development bandwidth they require is wildly out of proportion to the numbers that actually call those shards home. "

Really... i'd love if my shard had as many people as siege or mugen did... Go have a look at Oceania.
 

Tanivar

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Children! Children!

Act your ages. Let's not argue like the anti-classic sharders want you to so this thread gets locked.

There's been a lot of discussion on this topic by people who want to see this shard happen. What has been pretty much settled on for the Classic Shard to have?

Ignore the tail twisters. And just respond to those who are working to make this shard a reality, or it will never be one.
 

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
Perhaps for you and a difference of 3 years yes maybe nothing has changed but compared to prior to 2002 the EA shards are empty.
You do realize that was eight years ago? And somehow UO has survived those eight years, by all appearances quite handily. Obviously we'd all like to see more people in game, and who knows, maybe a classic shard would do extremely well, and I'm sure it would, at first.

But it's what happens after three months or so that will be the real indication of how successful it will be long term. Anyway, something tells me we are going to find out.
 
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woolygimp

Guest
My prediction is that if they created a classic shard, they'd have to create more than one due to overpopulation.

There are literally tens of thousands of people like me, who haven't touched the piece of **** that UO has become, in years but would literally jump at any chance to play an official classic shard.

I've tried the pre-trammel player run shards and enjoyed them immensely, but I just can't play something that is unofficial, corrupt, and insecure. There's a HUGE community of old school PVPers who would love to re-experience the game before it was ruined...

In every MMO I've played since, and on every MMO message board I always find people discussing old school UO and reminiscing over their fond memories of classic. And it's not "rose-colored" glasses... everytime I try a player run classic shard, I realize just how good the game was.

That's right... 10 years later and I still find more enjoyment with the classic ruleset than with any other MMO.

As far as people like Llewyn who don't want this to happen, it's because they know that they're game is dying and they don't want to expedite that process. They want to keep as many miserable people on their crappy rulset servers as long as possible, because they know when those players move on to better things (the classic shard) ... that they won't have as many people to play with.

UO is dead without a classic shard, they just haven't realized it yet. As Prozac said, the game was SUPPOSE to be shut down when EA bought out Mythic, and was only saved because Marc Jacobs did his best to convince them to keep the servers running... but how long do you think that'll last? Especially since he's no longer with the company.
 
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