Unattended Scripting Tamers Beware!

[Rix/\]

And what does that have to do with this thread? You know what I find annoying? When people hop gates. That is exactly what this player is doing: HOPPING INTO SOMEONE ELSE'S GATE.

Say it with me aloud:

1) Casting a gate to anywhere in game (but green acres!!) is not illegal or wrong.
2) You are not responsible in anyway for someone hopping into your gate.

The op is doing NOTHING WRONG and there is not a single rule in the game that can get them in trouble. He is playing the game within the rules and no one has the right to tell him that he cannot cast a damn gate. So basing your argument on little nuggets like "two wrongs don't make a right" is inherently flawed. There is only one wrong - not two.

The OP's intentions by casting the gate was to "HARASS" someone who he believed to be an unattended scripter he made that clear in the opening post. Did he provide any evidence this person was do such a thing? Did he bring it to the attention of a GM? or did he just automaticly assume what this person was doing was wrong and felt by harassing them it was the noble thing to do?
My 12yr daughter plays this game one of my main rules is that she just doesn't interact with anyone unless I've approved of it first. She's been harassed so many times now by people just like this OP going around assuming they've caught them a cheater. GM's have come and we've talk to them and they understood why we keep to ourselves. Whats gives anyone else the right to harass another because they won't socially interact with them? There are RULES in game as a mod I'd hope you would understand and respect the rules clearly stated in the game your site represents. NOTHING in there says players are to take action into their own hands when they find a cheater.

 

[Lord Kynd]

actually, no conversation need take place between offender/offended. a gm need only witness the event...else find the person guilty beyond a doubt based on prior offenses and witness accounts.

and actually when it comes to verbal griefing you are suppose to do those step's and also place the person in your ignore list ( not many understand how to do this tho).

 

[Cailleach]

The OP's intentions by casting the gate was to "HARASS" someone who he believed to be an unattended scripter he made that clear in the opening post. Did he provide any evidence this person was do such a thing? Did he bring it to the attention of a GM? or did he just automaticly assume what this person was doing was wrong and felt by harassing them it was the noble thing to do?
My 12yr daughter plays this game one of my main rules is that she just doesn't interact with anyone unless I've approved of it first. She's been harassed so many times now by people just like this OP going around assuming they've caught them a cheater. GM's have come and we've talk to them and they understood why we keep to ourselves. Whats gives anyone else the right to harass another because they won't socially interact with them? There are RULES in game as a mod I'd hope you would understand and respect the rules clearly stated in the game your site represents. NOTHING in there says players are to take action into their own hands when they find a cheater.

Mmmm, 12yr old. Rules. Isn't the minimum age for this game 13yrs? Sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.


EDIT: Just for the record - it's not difficult to spot a rail. It's especially not difficult when someone runs round on the same circuit for 5hrs +, without the slightest deviation, and when you can watch someones ghost continue to try and tame bulls. Ditto the guy the other night who was following my tamed bull around saying "null release" and trying to flamestrike it. You insult mine, and everyone elses intelligence by assuming we can't tell the difference between a real player and a bot and using it to give weight to your argument. Oh, and you know all those polar bears on ice island renamed "kill me"? Script. All the animals renamed "NWB"? Script. Yes, there are some who need to learn, which is why I'll show anyone who wants to know how to do it properly. But if you know what to look for, it's not at all difficult and the majority of the players here seem to have it down.

 

[Nine Dark Moons]

I have had people who are so pissed off at me that they do treasure maps on the island where my mall is located and drag dozens of ancient wyrms to it. I have logged in to find literally 8 ancient wyrms surrounding my house!!

*smacks self in forehead*
i always wondered where those damn things came from and how they got to your island LMAO...! i've recalled to your mall over the years for some laid back shopping and screamed in mock terror when faced with a giant dragon instead. talk about unexpected. heh... sorry, i know this has nothing to do with the op, but you just answered something i've always been curious about LOL...

 

[Duskofdead]

According to the RoC and ToS it is considered an act of griefing. Look for yourself bigmouth, the applicable information is right there in the comment written by Maximus. Like these other tools, you try to argue the intent rather than the legality of it. The intent has already been established...dont you understand that? Nothing good was meant...therefore the issue is one of greifing...not of helping add to the enjoyment of a fellow player.

In addition, I have stated that as a result of this thread things have indeed escalated. To the extent that a player cannot even use the Jhelom farms tram Atlantic. Sorry to burst your bubble but grief is grief...and if not done in fel it is illegal to say the least.

(is it typical for stratics staff to ignore the rules...or are you just a special case?)

All this indignation over your misinterpretation of griefing/gating rules (to my knowledge it's not even possible to "grief" someone using gating unless you are intentionally misleading them about where the gate leads. And even then, the person is prompted if they are sure they want to enter it) rings extremely hollow given that you lack any similar indignation over unattended botting. Which is equally against the TOS as the thin straw man of griefing you are trying to create in this discussion.

 

[Duskofdead]

lol..."may" was expressed to allow debate to the intent. Since the intent was already clear, there really is nothing to debate. So it is silly to hang on such a word...

Cheers.

Your third party bot script walking you into a gate unattended and getting you killed is the fault of whatever player cast the gate spell?

That's really, really, some backwards pretzelshaped justification of scripting. Seriously.

 

[ColterDC]

Even if the actions of the OP were illegal, which they clearly are not. Good luck getting a GM to show up and do something about it.

I've done everything imaginable over the years to stop someone's script. Including blocking, luring, murdering, etc. Never been banned......guess why?? Because there's no one on the other side of the keyboard to actually page on me.

Stop defending cheaters you piles of crap.

BTW having followed these boards for years I can tell you the reason a few of the posters are so adamant in their defense of the cheaters is because they are in fact cheaters.

So just ignore all their claims of griefing, etc and remember where their interests really are.

:loser:

 

[Duskofdead]

Even if the actions of the OP were illegal, which they clearly are not. Good luck getting a GM to show up and do something about it.

I've done everything imaginable over the years to stop someone's script. Including blocking, luring, murdering, etc. Never been banned......guess why?? Because there's no one on the other side of the keyboard to actually page on me.

Stop defending cheaters you piles of crap.

BTW having followed these boards for years I can tell you the reason a few of the posters are so adamant in their defense of the cheaters is because they are in fact cheaters.

So just ignore all their claims of griefing, etc and remember where their interests really are.

:loser:

Of course they are. I mentioned that somewhere back on page one about the wierd psychology of how people who know they're doing something wrong in an online game, seem to go to extreme, personal, you just slapped my sister lengths to defend that behavior and insult or belittle people who have a problem with it. The way the defenders are acting perfectly parallels the sort of reactions you get on the WOW forums when the topic of people buying gold online comes up. (Or any other commonly engaged in, but illegal, game activity.)

 

[Wenchkin]

as far as walking thru a gate and beign able to turn around and walk back thru.. well i find that funny because your spirit must be stronger than everyone elses. i get told your spirit lacks the force or some crap.

Thing is, even taking into account the possibility that a player might be physically disabled, anyone who wanted to grief an attended player by gating them, would have to know where to put the gate and be in the right spot to intercept them, and cast it at the right time. You'd be pretty unfortunate if in the bull pits a gate was opened and you happened to run right over it. It's a decent sized area of land, so unless you were walking over the exact same tiles repeatedly, you'd be hard to catch. I don't think that would be a very successful way to grief anyone who was attended.

If a player says "I'm going to hunt WWs and opens a gate, they gave the second player warning. That first player is not responsible for the second one following him. Had he said the rune was safe and gated to WWs, that's deathgating. But that's not what happened.

If I was to open a gate and a bot or player ran through, they may learn a valuable lesson the hard way - not to run into other people's gates. They certainly can't page on me. When tamers had to gate pets around, I lost count of the nosey and sometimes PKer players who'd follow me to some dangerous places. If that was a bannable griefing offence, I wouldn't have 4 clean accounts Think about it, if merely opening a gate where someone could run through it is considered grief, tamers gating fresh tames to the stables would be in very deep doo-dah on a daily basis But that isn't the case.

Wenchy

 

[Duskofdead]

Wenchy, they seem to now be twisting the argument and saying that since the OP's INTENT was to get the other player killed or annoy them, that he is guilty of griefing.

But, by the same token, you could say that me running to guards after someone attacks me is griefing. After all it's my intent to get them killed and teach them a lesson for the negative way they are playing the game, and of course to protect myself and my interests.

And even worse... if the PK was somehow on a PK bot script... and actually followed you into the guards everytime they tried to kill you.... LOL. Not my problem.

 

[Der Rock]

The OP's intentions by casting the gate was to "HARASS" someone who he believed to be an unattended scripter he made that clear in the opening post. Did he provide any evidence this person was do such a thing? Did he bring it to the attention of a GM? or did he just automaticly assume what this person was doing was wrong and felt by harassing them it was the noble thing to do?
My 12yr daughter plays this game one of my main rules is that she just doesn't interact with anyone unless I've approved of it first. She's been harassed so many times now by people just like this OP going around assuming they've caught them a cheater. GM's have come and we've talk to them and they understood why we keep to ourselves. Whats gives anyone else the right to harass another because they won't socially interact with them? There are RULES in game as a mod I'd hope you would understand and respect the rules clearly stated in the game your site represents. NOTHING in there says players are to take action into their own hands when they find a cheater.

1. you cant force "ATTENDED" player to go in a gate !
2. youre daughter is 12??? this game is rated 16+, so if you let your 12 year old daughter play this game alone, you should consider your educational method
You know, how many sick people run around in uo, and you let a 12y. old girl playing alone ??????

 

[Rix/\]

Try and twist it around won't work. The fact is the rules state your are to report such activity NOT harass them.

FYI My daughter plays with my guidance, I'm sorry your unable to understand the example I was giving which explains why your having a hard time understanding the game rules.

 

[Duskofdead]

Try and twist it around won't work. The fact is the rules state your are to report such activity NOT harass them.

FYI My daughter plays with my guidance, I'm sorry your unable to understand the example I was giving which explains why your having a hard time understanding the game rules.

1. How is it even possible to harass someone who isn't there?

2. If I gate from the Britain bank and some bot scripter comes barrelchugging from off-screen into it, not my fault, not harassment, period. A player not unattended playing would not have this problem.

3. Going out of one's way to not perform NORMAL ACTIONS which trigger some kind of faulty bot script behavior (like flying into a nearby gate no matter who cast it or where it leads) is in absolutely no way something normal attended players are obligated to do... even if they know that bot scripts erroneously behave a certain way around said actions. Saying that "well you KNOW that a bot enters gates! SO YOU ARE A GRIEFING HARASSER IF YOU DID NOT ABSTAIN FROM GATING WHILE A BOTTER WAS NEARBY!" is an absolutely ridiculous argument.

 

[UOKaiser]

1. you cant force "ATTENDED" player to go in a gate !
2. youre daughter is 12??? this game is rated 16+, so if you let your 12 year old daughter play this game alone, you should consider your educational method
You know, how many sick people run around in uo, and you let a 12y. old girl playing alone ??????

You could actually force them by them walking or running then you open a gate in there path before they have enough time to move and then wala they appear else where. Happens to me in luna alot I run through whiout noticing they opened a gate moments before takes a while before I can run back in.


Oh and the age thing from TOS
Parental Guidance. Ultima Online has been given a "TEEN" rating by the Entertainment Software Rating Board (found at www.esrb.com), which means that parents may find use by persons under the age of 13 is inappropriate.
which means a 1 year old can play if parents find it ok.

 

[Duskofdead]

You could actually force them by them walking or running then you open a gate in there path before they have enough time to move and then wala they appear else where. Happens to me in luna alot I run through whiout noticing they opened a gate moments before takes a while before I can run back in.

But this is not what is being discussed, what is being discussed is faulty ghetto bot script behavior that jumps on any nearby gate like Oprah on a baked ham and there is ZERO inherent obligation on the player base to make sure no players who might be bots are around before they cast gate.

 

[UOKaiser]

But this is not what is being discussed, what is being discussed is faulty ghetto bot script behavior that jumps on any nearby gate like Oprah on a baked ham and there is ZERO inherent obligation on the player base to make sure no players who might be bots are around before they cast gate.

Then they move on to moving the bulls then they move on to harrasing everyone. Once a player gets a taste of superiority they dont stop whith the casual gate. At first they open the gate a couple of minetes before then they move on to opening it 1 min before then they move on 30 sec before then they just open it right at the same time the guy comes around. If they are wrong at anytime then they hurt a innocent player. But once they have a taste of that type of power they start to hunt and increase aggresivity hurting bots and innocents alike not caring as long as they got another notch on there shoulders. Thats how it starts and thats where it leads.

 

[Duskofdead]

Then they move on to moving the bulls then they move on to harrasing everyone. Once a player gets a taste of superiority they dont stop whith the casual gate. At first they open the gate a couple of minetes before then they move on to opening it 1 min before then they move on 30 sec before then they just open it right at the same time the guy comes around. If they are wrong at anytime then they hurt a innocent player. But once they have a taste of that type of power they start to hunt and increase aggresivity hurting bots and innocents alike not caring as long as they got another notch on there shoulders. Thats how it starts and thats where it leads.

Guess what bud. If players like you weren't botting in the first place we wouldn't even be having this discussion. So blaming it on the OP or gaters or "people with intent to harass" botters is defying causality here.

 

[Cailleach]

Then they move on to moving the bulls then they move on to harrasing everyone. Once a player gets a taste of superiority they dont stop whith the casual gate. At first they open the gate a couple of minetes before then they move on to opening it 1 min before then they move on 30 sec before then they just open it right at the same time the guy comes around. If they are wrong at anytime then they hurt a innocent player. But once they have a taste of that type of power they start to hunt and increase aggresivity hurting bots and innocents alike not caring as long as they got another notch on there shoulders. Thats how it starts and thats where it leads.

That is just so not true. Most of the people I know that take action against scripters view them as a PITA that disturbs their game play. Not everyone is a power mad little Hitler with an agenda and you do yourself and them a grave injustice by saying they are.

 

[Duskofdead]

That is just so not true. Most of the people I know that take action against scripters view them as a PITA that disturbs their game play. Not everyone is a power mad little Hitler with an agenda and you do yourself and them a grave injustice by saying they are.

I'm far less afraid of someone "getting a power trip over gating" than I am over winding up PK'd one day by someone who botted their skills up in a week and considers themselves a "superior player" for it.

Seriously, which scenario is more likely.

That is not even to mention the effect on the economy or new players trying to use, harvest or access resources that botters are hogging. Kaiser conveniently overlooks all forms of harm that bot scripters do to gameplay, in favor of only selectively condemning the IMAGINARY harm that power-mad gaters will go forth and do in the future.

This whole argument is game, set match.

 

[UOKaiser]

Guess what bud. If players like you weren't botting in the first place we wouldn't even be having this discussion. So blaming it on the OP or gaters or "people with intent to harass" botters is defying causality here.

Um I already said I dont bot but thats a mute point as I believe youre one of those people that see bots everywhere especially those who dont agree on the player vandeta system. How you like having a conversation like this " (bothunter)-Youre a bot- (me)-no am not (bothunter)yes you are (me) I am here (bothunter)no youre not. It does get old not all bot hunters know what a bot really is they just assume.
How many players called you cheating when they saw something they never saw before even though it is common and they just have a lack of knowledge on it. It just never ends Grief here Grief there all in the name of who knows what. Or get a player to lure some beast to kill you and you see youre self running for the hills because of it. There excuse oh sorry I though you were unattended come on just a excuse used to grief in trammel. Im not sayin the op is doing anything like that but I am sayin not every bot hunter is like the op they are agrresive rude and dont care and thats most of them.

 

[UOKaiser]

I'm far less afraid of someone "getting a power trip over gating" than I am over winding up PK'd one day by someone who botted their skills up in a week and considers themselves a "superior player" for it.

Seriously, which scenario is more likely.

That is not even to mention the effect on the economy or new players trying to use, harvest or access resources that botters are hogging. Kaiser conveniently overlooks all forms of harm that bot scripters do to gameplay, in favor of only selectively condemning the IMAGINARY harm that power-mad gaters will go forth and do in the future.

This whole argument is game, set match.

How can you get pked from a person botiing up there skill wouldnt you get killed even worse by a person already whith the skills? Besides I believe all pks have all the skills they ever need stored in soulstones. I dont know any new player that jumps into pvp and can fight like a pro no matter how they worked there skills. Regardless there so little people pvp I would think you would want anybody you can get into it as quick as they can instead of waiting a year.
Either way was just specifing on that point doesnt matter to me it seriously never effects me one bit in non of my templates like I said only things that effect me are scammers,dupers,and griefters.

 

[Duskofdead]

Regardless of whether you feel it affects you, it's illegal, exploitive behavior. And it does affect you whether you realize or participate in it or not. If someone who only can play 5 hours a week sets up a bot to run for 8 hours everynight in addition, that person is helping to inflate the economy with all kinds of money and quicker advancement than they actually earned themselves. It's an unfair advantage and it's illegal. I do not see why you should be defending it, unless you engage in it or profit from it.

 

[Duskofdead]

Um I already said I dont bot but thats a mute point as I believe youre one of those people that see bots everywhere especially those who dont agree on the player vandeta system. How you like having a conversation like this " (bothunter)-Youre a bot- (me)-no am not (bothunter)yes you are (me) I am here (bothunter)no youre not. It does get old not all bot hunters know what a bot really is they just assume.
How many players called you cheating when they saw something they never saw before even though it is common and they just have a lack of knowledge on it. It just never ends Grief here Grief there all in the name of who knows what. Or get a player to lure some beast to kill you and you see youre self running for the hills because of it. There excuse oh sorry I though you were unattended come on just a excuse used to grief in trammel. Im not sayin the op is doing anything like that but I am sayin not every bot hunter is like the op they are agrresive rude and dont care and thats most of them.

1. No, I don't. I wouldn't insist someone's a botter just because I didn't like them. I've been around enough MMORPG's to spot when someone is unattended macroing, it happens in pretty much all of them, and it doesn't require rocket science or criminal court case levels of evidence. Usually if they're just doing the same thing over and over and over and utterly not responding that's a good sign. And if you don't like that standard don't cop attitude with me about it --- if a player reacted that same way to a GM they'd get suspended or banned. It's in the TOS.

2. You have a really really pathetic definition of griefing if you think that someone's bot program pushing them into any open gate (no matter where it leads) constitutes griefing that has to be nipped in the bud, you must be a new player. Nothing you can possibly do in Trammel even COMPARES to what griefing was back before there was a Trammel. Have to get up because someone knocked on your front door? Oh, my, well, you were standing at the bank and you come back and your reagent bag and house key and gold are gone out of your backpack, uh oh....

 

[UOKaiser]

Regardless of whether you feel it affects you, it's illegal, exploitive behavior. And it does affect you whether you realize or participate in it or not. If someone who only can play 5 hours a week sets up a bot to run for 8 hours everynight in addition, that person is helping to inflate the economy with all kinds of money and quicker advancement than they actually earned themselves. It's an unfair advantage and it's illegal. I do not see why you should be defending it, unless you engage in it or profit from it.

For one the econnomy is already up there 1-1k players aint gonna make a bit of difference even though we have less than 50k player left. 11 years of gold hoarding and gold duping item duping have seen to that theres no fix theres no need the economy adjusted for the gold. Also I believe we get maybe 1-2 new plauyers a year that stick whith uo anyway so it's really just vets retraining skills they were forced to get rid of because of nerf made by many of the dev we had. Anyway whith that said I shall continue to the point:

Just like you defend any action taken against a bot, I defend any action taken against a griefter. In order for a player to take action against a bot They will have to break this rule
1)You may not victimize, harass, threaten, or cause another player unwanted distress or discomfort, as determined by Support Staff.
And sometimes they break this rule
3)You may not use any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable language toward any other player.
And most likley this one
24)You will not do anything else that interferes with the ability of other Ultima Online users to enjoy playing the game in accordance with its rules, or that increases the expense or difficulty of Electronic Arts in maintaining the Ultima Online service for the enjoyment of all its users.

In order to stop another player from breaking another rule.
Unfortunetly many accuse the wrong people so they are essentially breaking 3 rules to combat a innocent person. If just 1 innocent person is condemend then the whole system is currupt.
So I stand on the side of let live and let the gm do there job if they so wish it. Unless of course it has anything to do whith a duper which really messes up everything and a scammer which takes advantage of unknowing players and a griefter which will harrass any other player for whichever reason. They should be banned but ofcourse it's the gm job and not mines "My JOb is to play have fun and not waste my money" so I try to remove my self away from the situation.

 

[Duskofdead]

No, no, no, no, no.

Show me where I said any action against a botter is justified, or where I defended that idea. You're straw manning.

I said opening a gate is not the fault of the caster if a nearby bot-scripter is programmed to approach and enter any nearby gate and click "yes" without any attending player input. That's purely the fault of the botter, plain and simple.

Why are you making this a nuanced, complicated, twisty-turny pretzel issue? It isn't. You fluctuate between misrepresenting what others are saying and misrepresenting that opening a gate is a perfectly legal perfectly acceptable normal behavior. A macro program making you walk into a gate is not.

I might think, in my head, "haha, it would be funny if the greater mongbat killed that noob." If it actually happens I have done nothing wrong... even though you could argue there was griefer / harasser "intent" in my head. The game performed as it was supposed to... just like someone opening a gate wherever the heck they want to. Unless he is telling an in-attendance player "yes, I promise, this gate goes to Britain" and it actually goes to white wyrms, he is doing nothing wrong. No matter where he chooses to open it.

 

[UOKaiser]

No, no, no, no, no.

Show me where I said any action against a botter is justified, or where I defended that idea. You're straw manning.

I said opening a gate is not the fault of the caster if a nearby bot-scripter is programmed to approach and enter any nearby gate and click "yes" without any attending player input. That's purely the fault of the botter, plain and simple.

Why are you making this a nuanced, complicated, twisty-turny pretzel issue? It isn't. You fluctuate between misrepresenting what others are saying and misrepresenting that opening a gate is a perfectly legal perfectly acceptable normal behavior. A macro program making you walk into a gate is not.

I might think, in my head, "haha, it would be funny if the greater mongbat killed that noob." If it actually happens I have done nothing wrong... even though you could argue there was griefer / harasser "intent" in my head. The game performed as it was supposed to... just like someone opening a gate wherever the heck they want to. Unless he is telling an in-attendance player "yes, I promise, this gate goes to Britain" and it actually goes to white wyrms, he is doing nothing wrong. No matter where he chooses to open it.

Like I said before I am not singuling out the OP gate procedure hopefully hes opening it giving the bot or person time to turn away. Though it is by intent to kill that character no matter the reason but is a lesser evil than taking all the bulls away to a nearby boat. It's all about the intention behind the gate opening for example lets see I herd a group of animals to have fun whith herding or to skin them alright it's game mechanics now I herd a group of animals saying to myself i intend to skin them but in reality am herding them to block another player from gating to the daily rare i want which would be blocking though the game mechanic allows it. it's all about the intent not just the action behind it. Did he do something wrong it all depends on intent can it be proved either way no.

 

[Wenchkin]

You could actually force them by them walking or running then you open a gate in there path before they have enough time to move and then wala they appear else where. Happens to me in luna alot I run through whiout noticing they opened a gate moments before takes a while before I can run back in.

Oh come on, how fast do you usually run to tame bulls?! I've yet to see a tamer taming at a gallop

Let me point out the steps so you realise how many points at which that bot or any innocent player could averted their own death.

Player announces he's going to WW dungeon... chance 1
Player casts gate...chance 2
Bot hits gate and gets a gump up....chance 3

The bot is a victim of his own script limitations, straight and simple. If an attended player sees those things happening in a quiet location, and still manages to click the ok on the gate gump, any deaths are their own responsibility. You can't be forced to click that gump, so you can't be forced into a dangerous gate. That's pretty much the end of the discussion in all honesty.

Now I could get someone into a gate into a safe town spot by dropping it before them, but that won't get them hurt. So again, that's not grief at all.

And while we're on the subject of rules, let's not forget that there are rules about unattended macroing and the use of illegal third party applications. Those are bannable. Had the OP paged on that bot and got a GM to show up, they'd be very lucky to avoid a ban. The bot got off lightly. A quick res and they'd be back in action. But had that bot been banned at 119.9 taming, I think even a cheat would be sore on that point

Wenchy

 

[Duskofdead]

Like I said before I am not singuling out the OP gate procedure hopefully hes opening it giving the bot or person time to turn away. Though it is by intent to kill that character no matter the reason but is a lesser evil than taking all the bulls away to a nearby boat. It's all about the intention behind the gate opening for example lets see I herd a group of animals to have fun whith herding or to skin them alright it's game mechanics now I herd a group of animals saying to myself i intend to skin them but in reality am herding them to block another player from gating to the daily rare i want which would be blocking though the game mechanic allows it. it's all about the intent not just the action behind it. Did he do something wrong it all depends on intent can it be proved either way no.

It's impossible to measure, gauge or police intent in the game, it's much more practical to simply stick with the TOS. And in the TOS the OP could do what he did all day long as long as he was not doing something like opening the gate 1 step in front of someone walking in a straight line, or lying about where it goes. The botter by definition is doing something against the TOS.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

and actually when it comes to verbal griefing you are suppose to do those step's and also place the person in your ignore list ( not many understand how to do this tho).

verbal harrassment yes...griefing no. all a gm need do is look at the language used in the journal...whala. In addition, putting a person on your ignore list just isnt a good idea...especially if you play in Fel. (you cant see the persons name tag...words of power...speech...nothing like being ganked and pooptalked by a person you cannot even see or read.)

Again though...this is griefing we are talking about...not verbal harrassment.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Thing is, even taking into account the possibility that a player might be physically disabled, anyone who wanted to grief an attended player by gating them, would have to know where to put the gate and be in the right spot to intercept them, and cast it at the right time. You'd be pretty unfortunate if in the bull pits a gate was opened and you happened to run right over it. It's a decent sized area of land, so unless you were walking over the exact same tiles repeatedly, you'd be hard to catch. I don't think that would be a very successful way to grief anyone who was attended.

If a player says "I'm going to hunt WWs and opens a gate, they gave the second player warning. That first player is not responsible for the second one following him. Had he said the rune was safe and gated to WWs, that's deathgating. But that's not what happened.

If I was to open a gate and a bot or player ran through, they may learn a valuable lesson the hard way - not to run into other people's gates. They certainly can't page on me. When tamers had to gate pets around, I lost count of the nosey and sometimes PKer players who'd follow me to some dangerous places. If that was a bannable griefing offence, I wouldn't have 4 clean accounts Think about it, if merely opening a gate where someone could run through it is considered grief, tamers gating fresh tames to the stables would be in very deep doo-dah on a daily basis But that isn't the case.

Wenchy

This BS about gating out to do something else is for the birds. Why? Bonded pets dont need to travel through gates, the owner only need recall. The ONLY reason to throw a gate would be if you were intending for someone else to follow...in this case the intent is to get a supposed scripter to go through your gate and die. This is griefing...no matter what ******** you try and put on it.

 

[UOKaiser]

It's impossible to measure, gauge or police intent in the game, it's much more practical to simply stick with the TOS. And in the TOS the OP could do what he did all day long as long as he was not doing something like opening the gate 1 step in front of someone walking in a straight line, or lying about where it goes. The botter by definition is doing something against the TOS.

Ok now we agree as long as he didnt open the gate 1 step in front of him that will be fine give the player time to move. Of course the problem is if the player is there and the person doing the gating IS a griefter then he will keep following the player opening the gate 1 step in front of him all day. Or killing his tamables just a example where things can go wrong.

 

[Cailleach]

I've yet to see a tamer taming at a gallop

Wenchy

Wenchy and Bake Kitsune?

 

[Viper09]

Face it. This is more of an ethics argument than anything. We all know that a scripter has a bigger chance of getting caught by a GM being that the script will keep running until the player stops it. The person casting the gate only needs to do it once and thus, cannot because in the act. The scripter will thus be stuck in another place. But despite all this no GM will ever show up in time to stop either.

But hey:

I love to run into random player cast gates all the time. So, if it is to a dangerous place and I die, by some peoples logic here, I can page and get them banned right?! I mean, it's the same logic here. Gate to deadly place; I enter; I die despite the fact they did or did not say it was a dangerous gate regardless if caster was coming or going.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

It's impossible to measure, gauge or police intent in the game, it's much more practical to simply stick with the TOS. And in the TOS the OP could do what he did all day long as long as he was not doing something like opening the gate 1 step in front of someone walking in a straight line, or lying about where it goes. The botter by definition is doing something against the TOS.

People need to realize that we reap what we sow. The more we assume the worst of people, the worse this game becomes. The more we force people out of the game, the less people we have to play with. Giving a griefer the benefit of the doubt is a slippery slope, and I think throughout this thread I have given plenty of reason why threads like this SHOULD NOT be a part of this forum. Unfortunately the Mods have no sense of this, and would rather persecute than investigate for themselves.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Ok now we agree as long as he didnt open the gate 1 step in front of him that will be fine give the player time to move. Of course the problem is if the player is there and the person doing the gating IS a griefter then he will keep following the player opening the gate 1 step in front of him all day. Or killing his tamables just a example where things can go wrong.

Semantics matter very little. Again, if the intent is to get the other player dead through the means of game mechanics in trammel...its against the rules.

 

[UOKaiser]

Oh come on, how fast do you usually run to tame bulls?! I've yet to see a tamer taming at a gallop

Let me point out the steps so you realise how many points at which that bot or any innocent player could averted their own death.

Player announces he's going to WW dungeon... chance 1
Player casts gate...chance 2
Bot hits gate and gets a gump up....chance 3

The bot is a victim of his own script limitations, straight and simple. If an attended player sees those things happening in a quiet location, and still manages to click the ok on the gate gump, any deaths are their own responsibility. You can't be forced to click that gump, so you can't be forced into a dangerous gate. That's pretty much the end of the discussion in all honesty.

Now I could get someone into a gate into a safe town spot by dropping it before them, but that won't get them hurt. So again, that's not grief at all.

And while we're on the subject of rules, let's not forget that there are rules about unattended macroing and the use of illegal third party applications. Those are bannable. Had the OP paged on that bot and got a GM to show up, they'd be very lucky to avoid a ban. The bot got off lightly. A quick res and they'd be back in action. But had that bot been banned at 119.9 taming, I think even a cheat would be sore on that point

Wenchy

Thats in the unlikly hood the player does announce hes going to ww and the liklyhood the player doesnt cast 1 step from the the supposed bot and as being stated before the ok gump doesnt pop up in these situations so that player will be automaticaly sent away without conformation. Am sure a bot will prefer that alternative than being paged on so I doubt you see anybody that uses bots complaining about it.
Though what i pointed out whith rules is that people break the ROC to stop others from breaking the ROC as long as they acknowledge they break the ROC also and are not in denial about it then they are closer to understanding themselves.

 

[eccentricjules]

Semantics matter very little. Again, if the intent is to get the other player dead through the means of game mechanics in trammel...its against the rules.

You can't force anyone to enter a gate.

Either they are at the keyboard and they enter on their own accord, or they are scripting and the script makes them enter. What is the scripter going to complain about? It reminds me of the losers on COPS who call up the police to report that their drugs have been stolen.... same thing. If they were at the keyboard then they wouldn't go in the gate. No "game mechanics" are being abused since players can't be pushed into gates!

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

1. No, I don't. I wouldn't insist someone's a botter just because I didn't like them. I've been around enough MMORPG's to spot when someone is unattended macroing, it happens in pretty much all of them, and it doesn't require rocket science or criminal court case levels of evidence. Usually if they're just doing the same thing over and over and over and utterly not responding that's a good sign. And if you don't like that standard don't cop attitude with me about it --- if a player reacted that same way to a GM they'd get suspended or banned. It's in the TOS.

2. You have a really really pathetic definition of griefing if you think that someone's bot program pushing them into any open gate (no matter where it leads) constitutes griefing that has to be nipped in the bud, you must be a new player. Nothing you can possibly do in Trammel even COMPARES to what griefing was back before there was a Trammel. Have to get up because someone knocked on your front door? Oh, my, well, you were standing at the bank and you come back and your reagent bag and house key and gold are gone out of your backpack, uh oh....

1) you arent a GM...if you have an issue with another player...page and move on...its in the rules.
2) we are talking about trammel...not felucca. Grief all you want in Fel...it always has been and will be part of the game there.

Hypotheticals seem to be flying here left and right...yet the rules are written in black and white. If you dont like the ruleset...dont play in that facet. If you dont approve of what someone is doing...page. Regardless of what happens, there are always going to be people in the game who feel they are above the rules...both scripters and non.

 

[Cailleach]

Semantics matter very little. Again, if the intent is to get the other player dead through the means of game mechanics in trammel...its against the rules.

So is running illegal third party unattended programs. But I'm not seeing you condemn those players for the harm they do in the game. I've not even seen you acknowledge the harm they do in the game. I've seen you say 'I don't agree with scripting'. That's it. Your rants seem to be reserved for those with the stomach to actually do something about the scripters.

Again, as has been pointed out by many players, if EA got off their asses and actually enforced their own rules, players wouldn't feel inclined to do it for them. It's not a mob mentality or a witch hunt or any of the other old, tired, cliches you've trotted out. It's players who care for the game, who hate to see the damage done to it, actually doing EA's job for them. Hell, EA should be saying 'thank you', and possibly giving them a job. At least the ones we've heard from here care about the game, have a decent amount of knowledge and understanding of it and are prepared to try and protect it from the botters.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

You can't force anyone to enter a gate.

Either they are at the keyboard and they enter on their own accord, or they are scripting and the script makes them enter. What is the scripter going to complain about? It reminds me of the losers on COPS who call up the police to report that their drugs have been stolen.... same thing. If they were at the keyboard then they wouldn't go in the gate. No "game mechanics" are being abused since players can't be pushed into gates!

Starting a fire with the intent of burning the house down is one thing, starting a fire with the intent of cooking then having the house burn down is another. Saying they both are the same thing is like the arguement with this subject in here...its about the intent.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

So is running illegal third party unattended programs. But I'm not seeing you condemn those players for the harm they do in the game. I've not even seen you acknowledge the harm they do in the game. I've seen you say 'I don't agree with scripting'. That's it. Your rants seem to be reserved for those with the stomach to actually do something about the scripters.

Again, as has been pointed out by many players, if EA got off their asses and actually enforced their own rules, players wouldn't feel inclined to do it for them. It's not a mob mentality or a witch hunt or any of the other old, tired, cliches you've trotted out. It's players who care for the game, who hate to see the damage done to it, actually doing EA's job for them. Hell, EA should be saying 'thank you', and possibly giving them a job. At least the ones we've heard from here care about the game, have a decent amount of knowledge and understanding of it and are prepared to try and protect it from the botters.

How many times must I state that I am against the 3rd party apps? If you read my replies you would notice I stated this again and again. I also stated again and again that two wrongs dont make something right. Breaking the rules to enforce them is a moot point...and one that can get you thrown out of the game too just as easily as the person you assume to be scripting.

 

[UOKaiser]

Usually if they're just doing the same thing over and over and over and utterly not responding that's a good sign.
2. You have a really really pathetic definition of griefing if you think that someone's bot program pushing them into any open gate (no matter where it leads) constitutes griefing that has to be nipped in the bud, you must be a new player. Nothing you can possibly do in Trammel even COMPARES to what griefing was back before there was a Trammel. Have to get up because someone knocked on your front door? Oh, my, well, you were standing at the bank and you come back and your reagent bag and house key and gold are gone out of your backpack, uh oh....

Forgot to respond to this. First every action in the game is doing the same thing over and over and over and over again there lies the tediousness in the game.

And the trammel comment whith getting stolen from well thats one reason they implemented trammel. Trammel has a different ruleset when it comes to greif than felluccia simple as that theres no tolerance. You probably was one of the people who gang up on me in brit crossroads when i was new and stoled my clothes making me run naked back to try to make gold or start a new character cause it would be easier than trying to get gold.

 

[Duskofdead]

People need to realize that we reap what we sow. The more we assume the worst of people, the worse this game becomes. The more we force people out of the game, the less people we have to play with. Giving a griefer the benefit of the doubt is a slippery slope, and I think throughout this thread I have given plenty of reason why threads like this SHOULD NOT be a part of this forum. Unfortunately the Mods have no sense of this, and would rather persecute than investigate for themselves.

A majority of new players would cheer the OP for doing what he did, or find it amusing at the very least. If his same activity had been directed at say tricking (young) into entering dangerous gates or something that's actual grief. Referring to a bot program being stupid enough to enter whatever gate is open nearby as the caster of the gate being a griefer is ridiculous dramatics. If the OP could loot the botter in Trammel and started doing this regularly then you would have more of a point, but this is a case of an unattended player using a bot script that will likely get them killed.

 

[Wenchkin]

This BS about gating out to do something else is for the birds. Why? Bonded pets dont need to travel through gates, the owner only need recall. The ONLY reason to throw a gate would be if you were intending for someone else to follow...in this case the intent is to get a supposed scripter to go through your gate and die. This is griefing...no matter what ******** you try and put on it.

So if I'm skinning dead bulls and need to gate to the bank to deposit the skins and return to my taming, I'm now a griefer? I may be training magery by gating around, or want to gate a friend in to join me taming. Still want to claim that the gate spell can only be used for griefing around the bull pits? Good luck paging on me.

Firstly I still prefer the page on a bot method of removal, it's less time consuming. Secondly, merely casting the gate spell does not make you a griefer. If I do nothing to encourage a player to go through that gate, it's the player's responsibility to keep themselves safe. That's why there's a gump if the gate goes somewhere dangerous. You can pull the "poor little bot" line as far as you like, nobody forced them to click "ok". If they unintentionally follow someone through a gate to town, they can unintentionally get their backsides back through the gate and continue botting. If they've got the manners to ask, they'd get a free gate back too. Problem solved.

When tamers had to gate to transport pets around, do you know how often players would run through our gates and sometimes get themselves killed? Yet not once, even in Tram, have I heard of a GM treating it as griefing. I've certainly never had a GM called on me in what 9 1/2 years of being a mage tamer. You are responsible for keeping yourself out of other people's gates. Unless they gate you to death when you ask for a bank rune, you have no leg to stand on in claiming grief. If you're so called definition of griefing was upheld, any player with a gripe could run into another person's gate, get killed and claim they were intentionally death gated. I'm glad the rules are better thought out than your definition of grief.

Wenchy

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

So if I'm skinning dead bulls and need to gate to the bank to deposit the skins and return to my taming, I'm now a griefer? I may be training magery by gating around, or want to gate a friend in to join me taming. Still want to claim that the gate spell can only be used for griefing around the bull pits? Good luck paging on me.

Firstly I still prefer the page on a bot method of removal, it's less time consuming. Secondly, merely casting the gate spell does not make you a griefer. If I do nothing to encourage a player to go through that gate, it's the player's responsibility to keep themselves safe. That's why there's a gump if the gate goes somewhere dangerous. You can pull the "poor little bot" line as far as you like, nobody forced them to click "ok". If they unintentionally follow someone through a gate to town, they can unintentionally get their backsides back through the gate and continue botting. If they've got the manners to ask, they'd get a free gate back too. Problem solved.

When tamers had to gate to transport pets around, do you know how often players would run through our gates and sometimes get themselves killed? Yet not once, even in Tram, have I heard of a GM treating it as griefing. I've certainly never had a GM called on me in what 9 1/2 years of being a mage tamer. You are responsible for keeping yourself out of other people's gates. Unless they gate you to death when you ask for a bank rune, you have no leg to stand on in claiming grief. If you're so called definition of griefing was upheld, any player with a gripe could run into another person's gate, get killed and claim they were intentionally death gated. I'm glad the rules are better thought out than your definition of grief.

Wenchy

LMAO...all I have to say is there is a HUGE difference between gating to a bank to unload and gating to a dungeon with the intent of killing someone. If you wish you argue THAT...then you really are ********. Wish to page for being called ********...feel free...because all you are doing is arguing semantics...something already heavily discussed.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

A majority of new players would cheer the OP for doing what he did, or find it amusing at the very least. If his same activity had been directed at say tricking (young) into entering dangerous gates or something that's actual grief. Referring to a bot program being stupid enough to enter whatever gate is open nearby as the caster of the gate being a griefer is ridiculous dramatics. If the OP could loot the botter in Trammel and started doing this regularly then you would have more of a point, but this is a case of an unattended player using a bot script that will likely get them killed.

I think you and every other person in here should read the rules again. Something was lost in translation...including the FACT that grieifng in Trammel is against the rules...end of story. Want to be a jerk in game? Go to Fel...thats what it is there for anymore!

 

[Wenchkin]

Thats in the unlikly hood the player does announce hes going to ww and the liklyhood the player doesnt cast 1 step from the the supposed bot and as being stated before the ok gump doesnt pop up in these situations so that player will be automaticaly sent away without conformation. Am sure a bot will prefer that alternative than being paged on so I doubt you see anybody that uses bots complaining about it.
Though what i pointed out whith rules is that people break the ROC to stop others from breaking the ROC as long as they acknowledge they break the ROC also and are not in denial about it then they are closer to understanding themselves.

In case you didn't notice, I did not say it was a good idea to gate somewhere dangerous around that player. Not once have I suggested or approved of any illegal activity, because the last thing anyone should do when faced with a cheater is to break the rules. Those little gits can be super quick at paging sometimes, so it's best to follow those rules to the letter. I know some very dirty ways to deal with cheats but that doesn't mean I employ them.

But, it is not illegal to cast gate spells to dungeons unless you are death gating. Which involves you misleading the player into thinking it's a safe gate. Merely casting a gate to a location doesn't make you responsible for the person following you. Otherwise all the gate jumping idiots who hang around banks would have a great time paging on mages who gated their guilds out for a hunt. Think about it. And while you're at it, tell me how on earth any GM would be able to tell whether you intentionally went in that gate or whether the person tripped you with it.

And I'll say this again, if you popped through the gate by mistake, you can just as easily pop back through it. I do it all the time moving stuff from banks to houses, and it works just fine.

Now, if players should be getting a gump up warning them about gates outside the GZ and they're not, then I'd suggest submitting bug reports. But not blaming the mage for the actions of the player who followed them. That's silly.

Wenchy

 

[MalagAste]

IN my opinion it can NOT be considered greifing.... as Griefing by definition would mean ruining someones game play and intentionally destroying their fun.... BOT's don't have fun..... and they can NOT be enjoying anything.... it's just like if you kill an NPC..... OoooOO wow who's going to be upset???? The PC??? The Script???? I hardly think so...... So the Scripter comes back to his computer then they should be happy they are seeing gray and not seeing the message at start up "This account has been Banned" see your email whatever for an explanation.... Which in my opinion is what he should be seeing ... he/She should thank the OP for killing him rather than reporting him and getting his account banned.... Because I will say this if I saw him scripting like that I'd page and he'd be banned.... And Yes I may even wait there the 6 hours or more it takes to get a GM to come look at it....

And what do I care if another cheating scripter leaves the game.... Oh well....

Like I said boo hoo cry me a river taming is too hard for me to work.. Oh feel sorry for me.... I work too much to waste time taming....... Boo Hoo.... I been playing a long time I deserve a tamer!.... BAH! I have 6 tamers I worked them.... 1 is 120, 1 is 115, 2 are 110 and the others I used an advanced token for and they are now upper 90's or so with jewlery they are just fine..... so don't patronize me about how hard it is ..... How much you work.... or how you deserve crap for playing for how many years... I've played a good 8 or 9 myself and I worked my taming the way it's supposed to be done..... manually while I was sitting at my PC.

 

[Traveller]

Not tired to feed the trolls, yet?

 

[Rix/\]

1. How is it even possible to harass someone who isn't there?

2. If I gate from the Britain bank and some bot scripter comes barrelchugging from off-screen into it, not my fault, not harassment, period. A player not unattended playing would not have this problem.

3. Going out of one's way to not perform NORMAL ACTIONS which trigger some kind of faulty bot script behavior (like flying into a nearby gate no matter who cast it or where it leads) is in absolutely no way something normal attended players are obligated to do... even if they know that bot scripts erroneously behave a certain way around said actions. Saying that "well you KNOW that a bot enters gates! SO YOU ARE A GRIEFING HARASSER IF YOU DID NOT ABSTAIN FROM GATING WHILE A BOTTER WAS NEARBY!" is an absolutely ridiculous argument.

OP only assumed they were unattended, he has no way of proving other wise which is why he should of paged for a GM. Once the GM is paged he should move on now as far as what the GM does they could mark the account in question once a GM notices so many pages on a certain player and notices how many bad marks the account has then they decide what action is to be taken. You as players would never know this so your left out assuming nothing is being done and now you feel you need to take matters into your own hand, thats the wrong way to go about solving the scripting exploiter problem UO has.

If the OP was minding his own biz and the scripting tamer interfered with his game play and the OP casted a gate to get away and the scripter followed then the OP did nothing wrong, BUT if the OP went out of his way to cast a gate to lure the unattended or not scripter through the gate then he's broken a rule just as the unattended scripter has and both should be punished. It is not ok to break one rule to justify another I don't care how you twist it up.