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Unattended Scripting Tamers Beware!

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A

AesSedai

Guest
I suppose you were just "standing" there with a knife and someone "fell" on it? ROOFLES!!! All you are doing is fooling yourself. Anyone with half a brain can see beyond your reasoning. If you have fooled yourself too...lol@u.
- I give you the right to make a poll on that and ask others who they feel is fooling themself here. Please do, sir. Just a note: If you do proceed to take this alternate topic into your own thread, I will provide links if you fail to.

I didn't make someone fall on a knife, nor do I think that the OP did. I believe you have been grasping at straws sir, and they just cannot support your weight.
The automatons, the cheat bots did it on 'their own' accord (see it wasn't their own because there wasn't even a human there to witness their character's failure).

You called me a fool. I am not about to report you; yet I have dared you to make a poll asking which one of us is being more foolish in regards to the spirit of the game & its rules.
 

Duskofdead

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Are you kidding? In essence you are saying that it is illegal only if you get caught. You do realize that you are rationalizing unfair play? Greifing is greifing, regardless of what the person you are greifing is doing. Time and time again the game staff has told people NOT to take this type of thing into the gamers hands...yet here we are once again tip toing on the line of whats acceptable and whats not. If you dont like what someone is doing...report it and move on.
No, Restroom Cowboy. What the OP is doing is like if my house got broken into 3 times in 3 weeks and so I installed an alarm system which would instantly alert police if one of the doors or windows was opened without the correct code. Then, when the thief comes back, you would say I am the criminal because I engaged in entrapment. It's not an exact analogy but it is basically what you are arguing. If someone broke into my house 3 times in a row then yes I can reasonably assume they will be back and yes I can assume my security system is going to catch them next time and get them arrested. That doesn't matter because if the individual had not been engaging in an illegal activity in the first place he wouldn't have had this problem.

A couple of comments on other (non quoted) thoughts in the thread so far:

1) I don't believe that scripting will directly cause player loss, it will only indirectly help contribute to it by making the economy harder on a new player. And, I would submit, even if someone leaves UO for EQ, or WOW, or any other major pay-to-play MMORPG I can think of, they are going to run into third party program-run automated play/exploits of every imagineable variety. You can go on youtube and watch videos players have taken of hunter bots run probably by either lazy players or by the "gold farming sweatshops" overseas which sell in-game gold and rare drops for U.S. dollars on the internet. So this is not a problem you will escape by leaving UO. (This is NOT to be misconstrued as a defense of scripting , at all. I just think there are plenty of good solid arguments upon which to attack scripted play without having to make up a fantasy scenario that new players are aware of it and indignant and leaving in droves over it.)

2) What we are dealing with is, in my view, often a matter of integrity of the game server provider in question, whether we're talking about EA or Vivendi or Blizzard. On the one hand you have accounts engaging in exploits to farm valuable things in game, inflating the economy, and supplying a virtual black market of ebay and more nefarious website selling of game items. On the other hand these accounts often are paying accounts, and so expecting the game's server provider or owner to act in the most stringently upright manner in protecting the game's ruleset integrity is like asking the wolf to guard the henhouse. In the case of WOW, as an example, there are occasional "high profile" bannings of accounts with duped items and purchased or sold gold. But the real truth of the matter is that if they had a foolproof way to detect every single account with gold or items purchased third-party, and banned them, you'd be talking about banning a million or more accounts. That's never going to happen. In addition, in their eagerness to addict new players, MMORPG companies are very generous in their handing out of free accounts, trial accounts, free client downloads, trial periods, etc. In the case of WOW it's become an issue of no matter how efficiently they ban accounts they can detect for sure are related to gold trading/selling operations from websites, it doesn't matter, because a new character named zzhadfasdfhadsfhdfadfgagh appears 45 seconds later in the same spot on a new trial account.

3) I don't think it will be until an MMORPG seriously makes an earnest effort to build a vital and dynamic in-game closed economy , makes that a feature of the game, and then has an interest in protecting its integrity, that we will see any real effort to totally eliminate these kinds of exploits. UO has been a case of opting towards what's more popular to a majority of players (which usually means making the acquisition of items easier and easier over time in some form or another) rather than what was better for controlling the long term stability or inflation of the in-game economy. There are even semi-formal papers and studies that have been done about the dev decisions on UO's economy which have negatively impacted its development in the long-run. No MMORPG on the market today that I am aware of is committed to a realistic, persistent game world and economy which players are the prime movers and shakers in influencing rather than game/NPC-created/spawned/dropped items and gold and resources being the primary constant infusion of the economy.

Post-Script regarding #1. I think whether you acquired your massive wealth, house(s) and rewards, decos, gear and such through legit work or through bots is ultimately irrelevant when it comes to considering the new player. It doesn't matter HOW you earned that stuff, what impacts the new player is that he pops into the game and you already have all this stuff and everything your NPC vendors are selling costs 5,000 gold+ and is geared only towards other equally affluent, old, developed characters. Make a new character with 50 in a trade skill and go try to make a profit in any way other than escorting NPC's in New Haven... it's kind of a joke. So if we get into the issue of how economic considerations hurt the new player, the fact that the existing population of UO is so top heavy with so many old players who've been hanging on and at the top end of the game for so many years, with so few (or even hardly any!) new or middle-level players, legit players are pretty much just as liable as botters in terms of making a nonviable rock-and-hard-place scenario for the new player.
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
- I give you the right to make a poll on that and ask others who they feel is fooling themself here. Please do, sir. Just a note: If you do proceed to take this alternate topic into your own thread, I will provide links if you fail to.

I didn't make someone fall on a knife, nor do I think that the OP did. I believe you have been grasping at straws sir, and they just cannot support your weight.
The automatons, the cheat bots did it on 'their own' accord (see it wasn't their own because there wasn't even a human there to witness their character's failure).

You called me a fool. I am not about to report you; yet I have dared you to make a poll asking which one of us is being more foolish in regards to the spirit of the game & its rules.
Yeah...I called your position one of a fool and a moron for defending your apparent "right" to greif other players. I think you should read the comment by maximus...you could definitely benefit from understanding it.

Want to page on me? Go ahead...like you I have a right to my own opinion.

Polls? They are useless and skewed. LOL @ you for even bringing them up as if they offered anything.
 

Tomas_Bryce

Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
This isnt about you or the reactions of others, this is about another witch hunt. You quickly forget how good people get hurt due to bullcrap like this in uhall. Again, a GREAT example is Tram Atl Jhelom farms...take a look instead of talking about yourself. Honestly, I dont care who you are...I only care that you are a moderator who refuses to do what he was asked to do. Which is, uphold the rules that you ask everyone to follow.

Please read Maximus' comment before addressing mine, seems he said things better than I could...
I read Maximus' comment and it does not apply. When you walk in the gate it asks you if you want to go through it. By clicking yes you are taking responsibility. Gater is not responsible unless they are gating at brit bank advertising to their mall but really gating to a dungeon. This is not the case. As I said before, you can page about this till hell freezes over but the op will not get banned. I do have a problem with you trying to connect whatever happens at the farms with this. The things posted in OP is completely legal and cannot be connected with something else that might be not.

I have no idea what are you talking about in regards to moderator and upholding the rules. I don't think I have broken any stratics posting rules. If you think otherwise then you should notify the moderator of this forum. I think you are confused.
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I read Maximus' comment and it does not apply. When you walk in the gate it asks you if you want to go through it. By clicking yes you are taking responsibility. Gater is not responsible unless they are gating at brit bank advertising to their mall but really gating to a dungeon. This is not the case. As I said before, you can page about this till hell freezes over but the op will not get banned. I do have a problem with you trying to connect whatever happens at the farms with this. The things posted in OP is completely legal and cannot be connected with something else that might be not.

I have no idea what are you talking about in regards to moderator and upholding the rules. I don't think I have broken any stratics posting rules. If you think otherwise then you should notify the moderator of this forum. I think you are confused.
I state again, this has nothing to do with gating and everything to do with griefing. If you stepped outside of the forum and looked perhaps you could see beyond your own shortsidedness.
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Not my words.... From support.ea.com
Yep...sorry for the confusion...but if people cannot relate what you copied and pasted to the BS going on as a result of threads like this...then there is little hope for this game.

I reiterate for clarity too, I am not for scripting or cheating. I can say however that I have ended up on the wrong end of a witch hunt before...and the funny thing is when the guilty were found out they cared little to offer apology. Imagine that!
 

Tomas_Bryce

Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
It is not GRIEFING to cast a gate in Sosaria. If it was then everyone would be getting banned. I have nothing more to tell you except that you spend lot more time on forums then I do Mr. 992 posts.
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
It is not GRIEFING to cast a gate in Sosaria. If it was then everyone would be getting banned. I have nothing more to tell you except that you spend lot more time on forums then I do Mr. 992 posts.
According to the RoC and ToS it is considered an act of griefing. Look for yourself bigmouth, the applicable information is right there in the comment written by Maximus. Like these other tools, you try to argue the intent rather than the legality of it. The intent has already been established...dont you understand that? Nothing good was meant...therefore the issue is one of greifing...not of helping add to the enjoyment of a fellow player.

In addition, I have stated that as a result of this thread things have indeed escalated. To the extent that a player cannot even use the Jhelom farms tram Atlantic. Sorry to burst your bubble but grief is grief...and if not done in fel it is illegal to say the least.

(is it typical for stratics staff to ignore the rules...or are you just a special case?)
 
A

AesSedai

Guest
- Once^nth again I am aware of UO rules, thank you.

The OP is not griefing. At all.

I already told you I am not about to report you; I do not resort to that type of defense unless someone blatantly makes note of some extreme UO-related cheats / or links to them.

Make a poll. I did dare you, didn't I?
Disregard the numbers & pay attention to the replies, for a more accurate polling.
That is, IF you want to carry this malarky further.
Hopefully you are playing the 'devil's advocate' here and don't believe what you are saying; if not: make a poll declaring my stance to be the foolish one. No worries ;) go ahead, make one & prove you know what UO griefing is :)

Until then, I bid you adieu as I must say goodnight tonight.
 

Viper09

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I am not defending anyone here, but according to the OP, this is taking place in the Jhelom farms, an UNGUARDED zone. If you cast a gate from an unguarded zone to anywhere, you are NOT presented with a gump asking you if you are sure you want to enter this gate. Instead you walk in and go straight to the location. No warning popping up at all.

But if you are so sure it is illegal, then stop complaining here and go to where the OP said he/she was and page on them.
 

christy1221

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
It is not GRIEFING to cast a gate in Sosaria. If it was then everyone would be getting banned. I have nothing more to tell you except that you spend lot more time on forums then I do Mr. 992 posts.
I've been trying to tell them it's not grief for casting a gate but they don't seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying.

If your there then you wouldn't walk through a gate that someone just announced was to a dangerous place. If I was there and running a script and someone made a gate I would stop the script so my character wouldn't go through it.
 
A

AesSedai

Guest
According to the RoC and ToS it is considered an act of griefing. Look for yourself bigmouth, the applicable information is right there in the comment written by Maximus.
- You have read the word: "may," in that emboldened quote, correct? Ok, g'night.
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
- You have read the word: "may," in that emboldened quote, correct? Ok, g'night.

lol..."may" was expressed to allow debate to the intent. Since the intent was already clear, there really is nothing to debate. So it is silly to hang on such a word...

Cheers.
 

Tomas_Bryce

Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Ok what shard jhelom farms are you talking about? I will take a look.
 

Viper09

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Oh, I thought I might want to add this:

I love to run into random player cast gates all the time. So, if it is to a dangerous place and I die, by some peoples logic here, I can page and get them banned right?! I mean, it's the same logic here. Gate to deadly place; I enter; I die despite the fact they did or did not say it was a dangerous gate.

Ok what shard jhelom farms are you talking about? I will take a look.

Not really. In fact I usually exclaim, "oh well, I am just going to have to go gate myself to tame some White Wyrms", but then they run in, and I don't need to leave.

Are you saying that I cannot use the gate spell while another player is near me? That sounds moronic.

Oh and I am on Atlantic in Tram if you need to find me.

Make sure to say "hi"!
"from page one"
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I've been trying to tell them it's not grief for casting a gate but they don't seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying.

If your there then you wouldn't walk through a gate that someone just announced was to a dangerous place. If I was there and running a script and someone made a gate I would stop the script so my character wouldn't go through it.
You are an idiot IMO for belief in your own falsehood. If the intent is anything other than friendly or for your own benefit...it could be established as griefing. Clearly you dont make a habit of throwing gates for people that didnt ask or that you dont intend to use no?
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Ok what shard jhelom farms are you talking about? I will take a look.
For the fourth time...I said Atlantic...your own shard slowpoke~

Gee...perhaps an hour or three earlier eh? There is still one bull sitting there tamed. (no owner...nothing) Evidentally the other tamer logged out because one bull has returned...while one is still missing. An hour ago there was another player there killing everything in site (said it was for skill gain yet they were killing farm animals @ 100+ skill?) ...he appears to have gone now too...perhaps school today.

My point is that due to this thread...another witch hunt has been introduced. Pay attention next time and good people (not to mention GMs) will not have to be interrupted.
 

christy1221

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
You are an idiot IMO for belief in your own falsehood. If the intent is anything other than friendly or for your own benefit...it could be established as griefing. Clearly you dont make a habit of throwing gates for people that didnt ask or that you dont intend to use no?

Theres no rule against it if I do. If I want to stand in luna and throw up gates to places you could get killed I can. If you go through it and die it's your fault for walking through my gate.

And griefing is against a player if there is no one there just a script running who am I griefing? The computer? I didnt' see anywhere in those rules posted that says I can't grief a script.
 

Tomas_Bryce

Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
For the fourth time...I said Atlantic...your own shard slowpoke~

Gee...perhaps an hour or three earlier eh? There is still one bull sitting there tamed. (no owner...nothing) Evidentally the other tamer logged out because one bull has returned...while one is still missing. An hour ago there was another player there killing everything in site (said it was for skill gain yet they were killing farm animals @ 100+ skill?) ...he appears to have gone now too...perhaps school today.

My point is that due to this thread...another witch hunt has been introduced. Pay attention next time and good people (not to mention GMs) will not have to be interrupted.
Pfft! It is early morning here.

I don't think killing animals in a farm is grieving whatever the intent. It clearly states that "refusal to take turns" is not something they will act on. In such a situation you just have to use your imagination to convince them to stop or logout. I am only interested in the gates. If they were stalking someone casting gates constantly then it could be considered a grief!
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
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Stratics Legend
Theres no rule against it if I do. If I want to stand in luna and throw up gates to places you could get killed I can. If you go through it and die it's your fault for walking through my gate.

And griefing is against a player if there is no one there just a script running who am I griefing? The computer? I didnt' see anywhere in those rules posted that says I can't grief a script.

Throwing up a gate with the intent of causing harm to another player while under the guise of something else is griefing...there is no getting around that. The other player also pays for their gametime, and as such deserve the same type of treatment you have come to expect.

A script? You automatically assume everyone who doesnt respond is scripting? LMAO! You assume that if a person is scripting that it is OK to grief the char? Do the right thing and report it, you have no right to police or negatively affect others trammel time.
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
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Stratics Legend
Pfft! It is early morning here.

I don't think killing animals in a farm is grieving whatever the intent. It clearly states that "refusal to take turns" is not something they will act on. In such a situation you just have to use your imagination to convince them to stop or logout. I am only interested in the gates. If they were stalking someone casting gates constantly then it could be considered a grief!
REREAD what I wrote before you make assumtions hmm? I dont care about any one thing...I care about the culmination of the whole grief package.

1) all bulls tamed...owner afk...intent is to disallow taming
2) gating to other places...intent is to get tamer dead
3) player (pvper) randomly killing everything in sight...says they are there for skill gain...according to UO.com wep skill, anat, tact...all already at 120...hmm.
4) stealther attacking available bull with every attempted tame...then going stealth again.

Think sir, thats all I ask. You seem to forget that when poop rolls down hill it builds momentum and force...not to mention size and ferocity. Witch hunts follow the same priciple...which is why I am so adamantly against them...regardless of why they take place...and regardless of my opinions on fairplay.

FYI...I consider myself a players advocate. Regardless of my own personal opinions I will defend matters I feel need to be in order to shield a players right to enjoy the game without incident.
 

christy1221

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Throwing up a gate with the intent of causing harm to another player while under the guise of something else is griefing...there is no getting around that. The other player also pays for their gametime, and as such deserve the same type of treatment you have come to expect.

A script? You automatically assume everyone who doesnt respond is scripting? LMAO! You assume that if a person is scripting that it is OK to grief the char? Do the right thing and report it, you have no right to police or negatively affect others trammel time.
And you have no right to tell me what I should or shouldn't do but that hasn't stopped you yet.

And again unless someone ask you for a gate to somewhere safe and you gate them to somewhere dangerous it is not griefing to make a gate to a dangerous spot.

I can make gates to dangerous spots all day long and if you go through it and get killed it's not my fault unless I tell you it's to a safe spot and it's not.
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
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Stratics Legend
And you have no right to tell me what I should or shouldn't do but that hasn't stopped you yet.

And again unless someone ask you for a gate to somewhere safe and you gate them to somewhere dangerous it is not griefing to make a gate to a dangerous spot.

I can make gates to dangerous spots all day long and if you go through it and get killed it's not my fault unless I tell you it's to a safe spot and it's not.
Actually in terms of being a players advocate...I have every right to express my opinion. I am not forcing you to do anything, only trying to show you that what you are doing is indeed wrong and against the rules. If you take offense to me asking you to follow the rules you agreed to follow, then you are nothing but a hypocrite. Breaking the rules to police others you "think" are breaking the rules is a no no...regardless of the spin you try to put on it.

If you need to grief others to find enjoyment, you really dont deserve to be playing this game to begin with. Yes, I said deserve...because the game is not a right...but a privaledge. If you break the rules to a privaledge what happens btw? You lose that privaledge. Did you not learn this as a child? I did.
 

Tomas_Bryce

Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
REREAD what I wrote before you make assumtions hmm? I dont care about any one thing...I care about the culmination of the whole grief package.

1) all bulls tamed...owner afk...intent is to disallow taming
2) gating to other places...intent is to get tamer dead
3) player (pvper) randomly killing everything in sight...says they are there for skill gain...according to UO.com wep skill, anat, tact...all already at 120...hmm.
4) stealther attacking available bull with every attempted tame...then going stealth again.

Think sir, thats all I ask. You seem to forget that when poop rolls down hill it builds momentum and force...not to mention size and ferocity. Witch hunts follow the same priciple...which is why I am so adamantly against them...regardless of why they take place...and regardless of my opinions on fairplay.

FYI...I consider myself a players advocate. Regardless of my own personal opinions I will defend matters I feel need to be in order to shield a players right to enjoy the game without incident.
Yes, witch hunts suck. Everyone should remember that grieving other players is stupid. But really all that you mentioned and more are just side effects of trammel. I would just go to fel if I did not want to deal with poop heads. The thing that does matter is that a GM, the only arbiter that matters in this, cannot read the intent for any of those things that you mentioned. They are not mind readers. All of those can have another more innocent explanations.

I stand by what I said earlier: This is a mmorpg, and all of the things that you mentioned can be solved within the spirit of the game. You just have to interact with the players, even those that you don't like.
 

hawkeye_pike

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I find this a funny discussion.

We all know how scripters, dupers, cheaters and marcroers hurt the game, the economy and the community.

We all know that GMs are not available, and if they are in rare cases, they usually will not take action.

Now someone comes up with a creative in-game method to deal with those subjects. (I remember the days when people used to get gold scripters Lurg-killed.)

We all know that these methods may not solve the problem and not even change anything, but it shows that some people still have the spirit, have not yet become opportunists, and have not given up on UO completely.

It is funny to watch people accusing those who actually spend time and take things into their own hands, using the most absurd arguments and compare their actions with real-life crime etc. They even accuse them of "griefing"! How funny is that?

It is the same blatant hypocrisy like all the whining we witnessed on these boards by the so-called "innocent" dupers who got banned this summer by Mythic emplyees.

Why even discuss this? It is ridiculous! UO is better without cheaters! Don't break game rules, don't macro unattendedly, and you will not have any problems!
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Yes, witch hunts suck. Everyone should remember that grieving other players is stupid. But really all that you mentioned and more are just side effects of trammel. I would just go to fel if I did not want to deal with poop heads. The thing that does matter is that a GM, the only arbiter that matters in this, cannot read the intent for any of those things that you mentioned. They are not mind readers. All of those can have another more innocent explanations.

I stand by what I said earlier: This is a mmorpg, and all of the things that you mentioned can be solved within the spirit of the game. You just have to interact with the players, even those that you don't like.
This is not a side effect of trammel though...it is the side effect of a witch hunt thread in stratics. I can say this with absolute certainty...because before this thread existed griefing at the farms was not an issue.

In addition...the script these tamers are using has been around for over two years. Strange for this to become an issue *out of the blue* dont you think? (obvious sarcasm)

Sometimes moderation is the key to nipping issues like this in the bud. The more you allow...the more these griefers will take (and make a game out of). Remember that...and you will be much better off as a moderator on these forums. That is unless you prefer to burn first, ask questions later.
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I find this a funny discussion.

We all know how scripters, dupers, cheaters and marcroers hurt the game, the economy and the community.

We all know that GMs are not available, and if they are in rare cases, they usually will not take action.

Now someone comes up with a creative in-game method to deal with those subjects. (I remember the days when people used to get gold scripters Lurg-killed.)

We all know that these methods may not solve the problem and not even change anything, but it shows that some people still have the spirit and have not given up on UO completely.

It is funny to watch people accusing those who actually spend time and take things into their own hands, using the most absurd arguments and compare their actions with real-life crime etc. They even accuse them of "griefing"! How funny is that?

It is the same blatant hypocrisy like all the whining we witnessed on these boards by the so-called "innocent" dupers who got banned this summer by Mythic emplyees.

Why even discuss this? It is ridiculous! UO is better without cheaters! Don't break game rules, don't macro unattendedly, and you will not have any problems!

Its all fun and games until the game shuts down due to no one being left to page on/grief against.

In regards to the last rule...if everyone followed the rules...we would not have witch hunts. Dont forget that griefing under any guise in trammel is against the rules. Poor moderation on these forums doesnt make that go away.
 

christy1221

Slightly Crazed
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Stratics Legend
Actually in terms of being a players advocate...I have every right to express my opinion. I am not forcing you to do anything, only trying to show you that what you are doing is indeed wrong and against the rules. If you take offense to me asking you to follow the rules you agreed to follow, then you are nothing but a hypocrite. Breaking the rules to police others you "think" are breaking the rules is a no no...regardless of the spin you try to put on it.

If you need to grief others to find enjoyment, you really dont deserve to be playing this game to begin with. Yes, I said deserve...because the game is not a right...but a privaledge. If you break the rules to a privaledge what happens btw? You lose that privaledge. Did you not learn this as a child? I did.
For one who acts like they are so perfect and don't break rules you sure don't care to break them on this forum. I'm sure you read the rules that say personal attacks are against the rules. But I have seen you call others names.

And again it's not griefing what part of that do you not understand? You can't seem to get that through your head making a gate is not griefing unless you tell someone it's to a safe place but it isn't.

And if I am going to get banned for making a gate then there won't be anyone left in the game since everyone does it.

And I deserve to play because I pay every month so I can play. I have not broke any rule so therefore don't have to worry about being banned.
 

Restroom Cowboy

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Stratics Legend
For one who acts like they are so perfect and don't break rules you sure don't care to break them on this forum. I'm sure you read the rules that say personal attacks are against the rules. But I have seen you call others names.

And again it's not griefing what part of that do you not understand? You can't seem to get that through your head making a gate is not griefing unless you tell someone it's to a safe place but it isn't.

And if I am going to get banned for making a gate then there won't be anyone left in the game since everyone does it.

And I deserve to play because I pay every month so I can play. I have not broke any rule so therefore don't have to worry about being banned.
So you admit to griefing and use the premise that everyone does it to make it OK...teriffic! Let me start by saying I dont do that, which throws "everyone" right out the old window.

Second, you wish to resort to commenting on me making personal attacks? I said IMO you were an idiot for breaking the rules and excusing yourself from any wrong doings for breaking them. That my dear is an educated opinion based upon your own ideas of logic. Which I would also like to add are CLEARLY distorted. Page on me if you wish...I hold no regrets as I was not attacking you personally...I was attacking your IDEALS!

FYI...doing something because everyone else is does not make it right...OR legal. MMK?
 

christy1221

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
So you admit to griefing and use the premise that everyone does it to make it OK...teriffic! Let me start by saying I dont do that, which throws "everyone" right out the old window.

Second, you wish to resort to commenting on me making personal attacks? I said IMO you were an idiot for breaking the rules and excusing yourself from any wrong doings for breaking them. That my dear is an educated opinion based upon your own ideas of logic. Which I would also like to add are CLEARLY distorted. Page on me if you wish...I hold no regrets as I was not attacking you personally...I was attacking your IDEALS!

FYI...doing something because everyone else is does not make it right...OR legal. MMK?
Um you might want to re read what I said. No where did I say you attacked me. I said others.

And where did I admit to griefing? I haven't griefed anyone so get your facts straight. I said it's not griefing to make a gate which it isn't.

So you misunderstood what I said entirely. I never once said I made a gate to get someone killed. I said making a gate is not against the rules and if it was then everyone would be banned since everyone does it. Which means it's not against the rules to use the gate spell.

I think you need to take a nap and calm down.
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Um you might want to re read what I said. No where did I say you attacked me. I said others.

And where did I admit to griefing? I haven't griefed anyone so get your facts straight. I said it's not griefing to make a gate which it isn't.

So you misunderstood what I said entirely. I never once said I made a gate to get someone killed. I said making a gate is not against the rules and if it was then everyone would be banned since everyone does it. Which means it's not against the rules to use the gate spell.

I think you need to take a nap and calm down.
I was arguing with your logic, not necesarily what you did or didnt do. You condone the activity, which IMO makes it wrong. I didnt misunderstand or misinterpret...

Nap? Calm down? Heh...seems like someone else is getting personal. :p BTW...along these subject lines...no I wont calm down. I remember what this game used to be like and would very much enjoy seeing something of an awakening from it. However I really dont think that will happen if all the good people go leaving us with nothing but jerks to deal with. (no...not you...I am generalizing.) Trust me though, people are just looking for an excuse to leave. By giving them one that is one less person to enjoy the company of.

What the moderators need to understand that it is threads like this that give people one more reason to leave. Griefing sucks...and honestly for the player with nothing left to gain, greifing provides them with that final reason quite often with which to quit...for good.
 

christy1221

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I was arguing with your logic, not necesarily what you did or didnt do. You condone the activity, which IMO makes it wrong. I didnt misunderstand or misinterpret...

Nap? Calm down? Heh...seems like someone else is getting personal. :p BTW...along these subject lines...no I wont calm down. I remember what this game used to be like and would very much enjoy seeing something of an awakening from it. However I really dont think that will happen if all the good people go leaving us with nothing but jerks to deal with. (no...not you...I am generalizing.) Trust me though, people are just looking for an excuse to leave. By giving them one that is one less person to enjoy the company of.

What the moderators need to understand that it is threads like this that give people one more reason to leave. Griefing sucks...and honestly for the player with nothing left to gain, greifing provides them with that final reason quite often with which to quit...for good.
I said I think you need to calm down because you seem awful angry about it.

I have been playing for eight years and I hate that the game is being taken over by cheaters.

I still stand behind what I said. Making a gate is not against the rules and if someones character walks through it because they left them unattended then who cares if their character dies. If they were there and not cheating then it wouldn't have happened.
 

Viper09

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Heck, I am still waiting for someone to answer my question here! I mean, if just opening up a gate to a dangerous place is illegal, this is a serious question, lol.
But mr RC says if it is with intent in hurting someone it is illegal....so how do you prove that?! You can't.
But I am sure if someone gets pissed off they will claim it is on purpose regardless.
So answer me on this below:

I love to run into random player cast gates all the time. So, if it is to a dangerous place and I die, by some peoples logic here, I can page and get them banned right?! I mean, it's the same logic here. Gate to deadly place; I enter; I die despite the fact they did or did not say it was a dangerous gate regardless if caster was coming or going.
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Heck, I am still waiting for someone to answer my question here! I mean, if just opening up a gate to a dangerous place is illegal, this is a serious question, lol.
But mr RC says if it is with intent in hurting someone it is illegal....so how do you prove that?! You can't.
But I am sure if someone gets pissed off they will claim it is on purpose regardless.
So answer me on this below:

Consider boxing if you will...some people love to beat the tar out of others for sport and money...but take that same fight out on the street and it becomes illegal. The issue here is intent, and clearly if you are cloudy on the issue of intent you would also be cloudly on the issue of whats right and whats not.

Cant prove it? Tell that to the those banned for griefing.
 

Spree

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
How hard is it not to hop in some one gate? If you walk in to some one gate on Siege you might find you self dead. It easy not to walk in to a gate, if you do easy enough hop back out. Maybe the scriptors should rewrite their code so they dont walk though gates. :loser:
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I said I think you need to calm down because you seem awful angry about it.

I have been playing for eight years and I hate that the game is being taken over by cheaters.

I still stand behind what I said. Making a gate is not against the rules and if someones character walks through it because they left them unattended then who cares if their character dies. If they were there and not cheating then it wouldn't have happened.
You mistake passion for anger.

BTW...I agree with your sentiment that cheating is wrong, but like you I stand by what I said...two wrongs do not make things right.

After all...should I use these programs just because someone else is? I think not.

Your idea of deathgates doesnt bode well for many in game. Those that will have to suffer with crap like this the most are those disabled...such as legally blind ppl and even those that are physically handicapped. Should they have to deal with the legality of death gates in trammel? I am sorry but should they suffer due to witch hunts like this? (again...I am against cheating...but I am against this MOB mentality even more)
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
How hard is it not to hop in some one gate? If you walk in to some one gate on Siege you might find you self dead. It easy not to walk in to a gate, if you do easy enough hop back out. Maybe the scriptors should rewrite their code so they dont walk though gates. :loser:

You try not stepping through one as a legally blind person or a person with MS or any number of other physical handicaps. (seems extreme? there are alot of disabled ppl who play UO)

Rules like the no griefing are put into place for good reason...
 

HD2300

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
To be considered griefing by a GM, the victim has to say please stop XYZ to the griefer, then they would have to say please do not follow me. Then if the victim moves to another location and griefer follows the victim and does XYZ again they could get banned.

Since the Deathgates occur only in the Bull pen, it is not illegal.
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
To be considered griefing by a GM, the victim has to say please stop XYZ to the griefer, then they would have to say please do not follow me. Then if the victim moves to another location and griefer follows the victim and does XYZ again they could get banned.

Since the Deathgates occur only in the Bull pen, it is not illegal.
actually, no conversation need take place between offender/offended. a gm need only witness the event...else find the person guilty beyond a doubt based on prior offenses and witness accounts.
 
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Connor_Graham

Guest
Rules like the no griefing are put into place for good reason...
To borrow from Maximus' quote that you agreed to:

not okay to ruin the fun of UO for other players, specifically when that is the intent behind your actions.

There is no griefing if there is no player. The "intent" in this case is aimed at a bot, not at a player. Since the rules specifically state griefing is against another player, and we don't have a player in this instance, no griefing is taking place.

Especially since the intent was clearly announced prior to the gate being opened. If there does happen to be a player there and they walk through the gate anyway, then it's on them, not the person that opened the gate. Either way, no one is being wronged.


Oh and btw, I'm disabled, and speaking for the disabled community that I am a part of..........we're ok with this too.:lick:
 

Petra Fyde

Peerless Chatterbox
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Too many smoke screens.

No attending player will inadvertently enter these gates, because they have to click 'ok' or 'cancel' on the gump that pops up. You can not accidentally enter another's gate.

Even if, in a moment's inattention, the attending player clicked 'ok' he would immediately step back through the gate to return from whence he came.

By definition a 'death gate' is cast on request to a destination other than that requested. These are not 'death gates', and no player who was actually at the keyboard would be affected by them.
 
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Lord Kynd

Guest
Too many smoke screens.

No attending player will inadvertently enter these gates, because they have to click 'ok' or 'cancel' on the gump that pops up. You can not accidentally enter another's gate.

Even if, in a moment's inattention, the attending player clicked 'ok' he would immediately step back through the gate to return from whence he came.

By definition a 'death gate' is cast on request to a destination other than that requested. These are not 'death gates', and no player who was actually at the keyboard would be affected by them.


this is not true at all.
i have been out running around and checking vendors for things to buy, when a gate has opened and i have gotten ' sucked' into it .. no gump at all.
 

Petra Fyde

Peerless Chatterbox
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
only if it's to a safe location, like a town or other guardzone.
 
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Lord Kynd

Guest
not okay to ruin the fun of UO for other players, specifically when that is the intent behind your actions.

There is no griefing if there is no player. The "intent" in this case is aimed at a bot, not at a player. Since the rules specifically state griefing is against another player, and we don't have a player in this instance, no griefing is taking place.

Especially since the intent was clearly announced prior to the gate being opened. If there does happen to be a player there and they walk through the gate anyway, then it's on them, not the person that opened the gate. Either way, no one is being wronged.


Oh and btw, I'm disabled, and speaking for the disabled community that I am a part of..........we're ok with this too.:lick:

glad you do not represent me as i am physically disabled and not mentally disabled.

and now.. your wrong, a paying person is a player,a NPC is not. griefing is griefing period, you are trying to deni that person the right to use there account. ( if the person was not paying then it might be different.)

as far as walking thru a gate and beign able to turn around and walk back thru.. well i find that funny because your spirit must be stronger than everyone elses. i get told your spirit lacks the force or some crap.
 
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Lord Kynd

Guest
Pfft! It is early morning here.

I don't think killing animals in a farm is grieving whatever the intent. It clearly states that "refusal to take turns" is not something they will act on. In such a situation you just have to use your imagination to convince them to stop or logout. I am only interested in the gates. If they were stalking someone casting gates constantly then it could be considered a grief!
very true, it is well stated that no particular person 'owns' a spawn, nor area.
 
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Lord Kynd

Guest
Sorry Shanshu but your thread reeks of griefing...we all know it, so do you.

@ the mods...and you wonder why UO doesnt back these forums? look at the content you allow under the guise of *warnings*...*shakes head*
towards your Mod's part... your wrong.
EA simply can not tie accounts here with the accounts used in-game, not like they did when the real boards where around.
god i miss Mr. Milk
another reason is the mod's and owner are not employees of EA/Mythic, we are lucky they even come here to read and post. EA can complain like we do about something and maybe get it changed here, they do not hold the same power they held when the boards where on there servers.
 
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Lord Kynd

Guest
only if it's to a safe location, like a town or other guardzone.
nope.
i can not agree with this at all.
i have been sent many places other than towns without seeing any gump.
kinda like rolling out of a town moongate( static) and as soon as your thru the other side someone has a gate sitting right next to the town moongate and you 'run' into it.. poof your wisked away to wherever that gate goes.
guarded zone even, now what ?

i've even been standing at brit bank (before the holliday events) and ran to go thru a gate , no gump poped up and it took me to the ferry man in doom.. again , no gump verifing that i wanted to go thru the gate. tho i obviously did because i ran to enter it.
 
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Connor_Graham

Guest
and now.. your wrong, a paying person is a player,a NPC is not. griefing is griefing period, you are trying to deni that person the right to use there account. ( if the person was not paying then it might be different.)
I'm not even sure how to respond to this since it isn't a response to anything I said. Anyway, if the player is there "using their account", then they knew full well the gate that they walked through was heading to the Wyrms, so no foul since they did it all by themselves. As far as these scripters paying for their accounts, it's pretty well known (and even stated by Jeremy as such) that the majority of these accounts are either free temp accounts or were created by using stolen CC information.


as far as walking thru a gate and beign able to turn around and walk back thru.. well i find that funny because your spirit must be stronger than everyone elses. i get told your spirit lacks the force or some crap.
Please quote where I said anything about this.

I think you hit the wrong post to quote. Not much of anything you said has anything to do with what I posted.

Either way, as I said, there is no griefing since there is no player. Even if there WAS a player, then they knowingly walked through a gate that was clearly announced was to the White Wyrms. Anything that happened after they walked through was on them, not the gate caster.
 
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