You mean, only in those instances where you need to teleport after your target.
Yes it is, because you were talking about giving up 20 med. Look at the difference between med and no med. Oh look at that, .02 mana difference giving up med. wow just like I said. A dexer in studded won't have 120 focus, and they would also have no med helping them so how is a dexer with no med > a mage with focus in studded when it comes to mana regen? Use your brain please.
Again its not their only way. You keep ignoring the fact you could put that on your template.
Putting a fighting skill on your template isn't a way of giving MAGES the ability to dismount. That's a way of giving TANK mages, or ARCHER mages, or THROWER mages the ability to dismount. Not MAGE mages.
It's bad because it makes bola's much much worse than other dismounts. It will unbalance the templates even further. Why is it a good one? If it isn't particularly a good change, then why should we change it? If it isn't broke, then why are we trying to fix it?
Bolas can miss too. It's not particularly hard to keep up with someone, but it's not particularly easy either if they know how to avoid it. Also, you can remount instantly when you miss with another weapon. With a bola, even if you miss, you're still on foot.
Why is it being fixed ?
I assure you, the topic is about Bolas and other related changes in the patch notes, it has nothing to do with your "skill".
I'm better then you though, lul. Sharing is caring. To be on topic, you could delete bolas for all I care,.
This
Whats that word you used after Tank, archer and thrower? MAGE. So YES. A MAGE CAN dismount. Sorry but you lost this one, like many other arguments that you've tried in this case. Yes or no, can a mage dismount? Yes or no could you have that ability on a mage? Problem solved already. If you choose to play a template that has this where you have to invest skill points and use mana that's up to you. Vs an item you can carry that requires no skill points, no mana, and a longer range especially if you want to count teleporting.
1) I generally only play a red thrower
Warriors need hci and dci ? Hrm, mages need dci, sdi and lrc, to me just that is balanced. Warrior's hci is much like mage's lrc
Seriously?
What I meant was a bola should always hit someone 50% when he doesnt have parry, but 45DCI. And to please you shouldnt be put on dismount timer when the dismount fails.
Again, the ability to bola alone is not going to cause anyone to drop weapon skill and tactics. A weapon skill and tactics give you MANY other abilities than just a bola. You still haven't answered my question as to why dismounting should be exclusive to weapons.
Again, they don't dismount 100% of the time. Not only can people leave screen, but they can dismount themself and then remount when the bola timer goes off.
If you can stay on screen with them? Yes. As I've said, dismounting with a bola isn't easier than a weapon. If anything it is harder. Why should dismounting someone on an ethy be easy with a weapon? I mean if people riding ethys is an excuse to nerf dismounts, then why don't we nerf weapon dismounts just as much as bolas? Being dismounted with weapons is at least as easy as a bola, shouldn't weapons be nerfed by that same logic?
No, it won't be as easy. Because people can still leave screen and avoid a bola. That alone will cut your chance in half. And again, at least 19/20 mages don't carry hci, and they aren't going to just for bolas. You are nerfing every one of them, and that means the chance will be reduced even further. Not only that, but when you fail, you will still be on a timer. I'm not exaggerating when I say that this change will nerf bola's to utter uselesness.
Using a bola does cost mana. You need to cast tele. Casting tele twice takes about as much mana as a dismount does. And the double mana cost for spamming specials isn't a good argument, because dismounts also give a damage bonus.
How?
Covenant, we're referencing a completely different conversation. When he brought up the topic of how long I've played, he was talking about a conversation we had in game a couple of months ago. He was trying to tell me that I'm all hacks and weaken spams, and he referenced a time that he beat me to make that point; to which I replied he beat me a few years ago when I was still a noob. I told him that I've only been playing a few years, and although two years ago might not be a lot in UO time to most players, it's a lot for me because I haven't been playing long.
Uhhhh, actually you are probably right around the same level. Actually, Covenant might even be better considering how little you've played.
I have perfectly valid arguments for all of those points.
Ok, but sorry, I did NOT lose the argument, and saying that I did does not simply make it true lol. Yes, an Archer Mage is an Archer too. But you fail to see the point. Why must dismounts be exclusively viable to Archers, or Dexxers? Why should mages not have their own way of dismounting? A way of which isn't even as effective as the way non-mages use. And as I've said in my other post, it does take skill points and mana to use bola's effectively. You still have to teleport, and if you don't it's not even close to as effective as say an archer's dismounts.
Again, I didn't say it's a hard skill. But I also said it's not an easy skill. I think it's good as it is, because it takes just the RIGHT amount of skill. If someone is good, they can avoid bolas the majority of the time. I personally don't get bola'd often, simply because I know when to run. Look, I am a pretty good bola'er, and I still find archer dismounts to be easier and more effective. I dismount and shoot instantly, and if I miss, i just remount instantly and try again when I get an angle on my opponent. One change usually doesn't make or break pvp. That doesn't mean I can't argue thoroughly against it, does it?
As I've said numerous times, they don't always hit, they do take skill and mana to use effectively, and they might have a longer range, but you can also run sooner being you get a warning. Here me out on this: If they were just as good as dexxer/Archer dismounts without requiring any skill or mana, then why don't dexxers and archers use bolas instead of weapons?
You don't need to say it, you've been arguing for the change for pages. If you don't care about the change, why not just stop arguing for it? lol That's not an insult, I'm really just curious. I think I've made some pretty good points, over and over again.
It's uhhh, quite simple really. People see an argument that on first thought, makes sense to them. But when you examine it further and look at the big picture, it makes sense why things are the way they are. I already addressed the 3 points before mentioned, so I won't repeat. As for the skills to dismount, I did make a perfectly good counter point. But I said that forcing a mage to pick up a weapon skill wasn't fair, I think you missed the point. So I'll be even more specific and clear. Here is my argument. Why should dismounts be exclusive to weapon skills? Why should a mage need a weapon skill to dismount? I think it's safe to say that YOU ignored THAT point.
As I've already said, I do play non-mages. I play a death striker, and a disarm archer; for two reasons. A. They are currently OP as hell. and B. I like the variety, and yes, I do like playing non-mages as well. Mages aren't the only class I care about, I just think the current state of mages is pathetic. As for your argument about picking up some skills, what you have to realize is that is just all a way of defending yourself against dexxers, and it's a system of dexxers constantly being buffed and mages trying to figure out ways to compensate. The point is, how can mages ever have an advantage when they are constantly on the defensive playing "catch-up"? Not only that, but mages are running out of skill space to compensate for the offenses of gimps. For example: If you give Dexxers 3 Abilities: Abilities A, B, and C; and each one of those Abilities has a way of being compensated for, and that will mean Mages need skills A, B, and C to compensate for them; but mages only have skill space for two of those, that means that dexxers in the end will have an advantage. This is the game in which we currently play. If a dexxer can effectively dismount, and a mage can't, than that's one more advantage you're giving a dexxer. Now if you're giving a Dexxer the ability to dismount (ability A), but the only way a mage can dismount is if he gets some dexxer/archer skill (skill A) then on the surface of things it would appear balanced. That would sound fair. And then if you gave dexxers the ability to disarm splinter (ability B) and then tell mages, well you can easily survive that if you get some wrestling skill (skill B). For every ability, there is a counter skill, or some way of compensating; and all things being equal that would sound like a fair trade off. But all things are not equal, because mages are limited in how many skills they can have. Good luck trying to get wrestling AND archery on a mage. My overall point, is that Dexxers are gaining more abilities, and the abilities that they do have are becoming more effective, and mages are not being given the tools that they need to *adequately* compensate. This is why it is necessary that in anytime we make a decision to change something we need to seriously consider the overall effect it will have on the balance of things. It's not fair to mages if they are constantly playing "catch-up" with dexxers/archers.
Honestly I don't know, why you actually apologize. All these "wall of text" and TLDR statements are just plain stupid. This is a forum and not an image gallery or whatever. It is about reading and writing ones opinions.
Oh really? Becuase I thought it was about sharing information and idea's, as well as adequately arguing why things should be one way or another?
Exactly that's why you shouldn't apologize...
You have to understand something too though, using a Mage weapon is also not without it's trade offs. You're not just sacrificing some mod space on the weapon and jewelery, you are also sacrificing your ability to use specials, and maybe some damage with a weapon (if you include both skills). My friend Sedric still plays a tank mage, and he does quite well on one, but his template has some pretty serious weaknesses that most non-mages don't have. Like if he get's dismounted? well, he doesn't have anything other than spells and pots for survival. No bandages, no ninja, no parry, no wrestling, no pets, etc. But again, if you look at the big picture, the fact that non-mages still wreck mages 1v1 even with mage weapons, I think mage weapons are more than fair. This might have been a good argument during like the Samurai Empire, or Age of Shadows when Dexxers weren't nearly as good as they are now, but they are.
*shrugs* I can agree with that.
You sound like your son now lol. You can't say it's perfectly timed, and then call it a spam lol. A spam means it's used frequently and random, and there isn't much strategy to it. Not only that, but I'm willing to bet that I can can beat 95% of UO in pure mage duels without even using weaken/feeblemind. Don't believe me? Get your son to duel me and I'll prove it. I imagine he's better at dueling than maybe 9 out of the average 10 people.
No you're wrong. You're talking about dodging which can be done vs the dismount special AND the bola. Everyone is talking about if you had someone stand on screen and throw 100 bolas they would hit 100 times. If you had someone stand on screen and take 100 dismount shots at them it would not hit 100 times. They are not the same AT all. One NEVER misses, we're not talking about the ability to dodge since both can be dodged.
Oh, you are criticizing them for criticizing me? I thought you were saying that MY walls of text statements were stupid; as in the walls of text them self were stupid. Sorry.
Ok, mages don't NEED LRC, but it should suffice to say that the way things are currently is fair. Mages DO carry LRC because there's nothing better for them to have, and that way they don't get overweight, run out, or need to get more when they rez. Either way, when you currently look at the overall picture, the trade off of LRC for HCI is a pretty fair one.Seriously?
So I can buy some amazingly cheap and obtainable things like regs and leave them in my pack to always be at max hci? Where do I get them? Im in!
I will be the first person to say that not having lrc is a pain in the ass but bottom line is that it is still nothing more then a convenience that is quite easily built into all types of uber mage suits.
If I pvp at the gate for 2 hours I usually only die a couple of times so I would have no problem at getting more hci regs each time lol. The girls that do nothing but play field games at chokepoints in dungeons may have other issues though
This is an excellent point. But I would say, if you're going to make it have the range of a heavy x-bow, you should also make it instant as opposed to the delay, in which case it would work just like a heavy x-bow. The reason being, is if you're only going to give it the range of a heavy x-bow, it will be nearly impossible to bola anyone that runs even with tele's.
Oh, one more thing I forgot to add to this point. You are specifically comparing the usefulness of a LMC suit on a mystic, which I'll admit, probably is worth the trade off, although it's not as much of a bonus as you say. But IMO, that trade off just makes up for the fact that you don't have med, which most non-mystics do. When you have a medable suit with Med, your MR is far far better.
I didn't say it would cause people to drop a weapon skill and tactics, I'm saying they didn't have those skills in the first place, yet they are still able to dismount.
I don't believe it should be exclusive to weapons, but weapon dismount should be significantly better than a consumable item dismount.
Ok, you can't 'leave screen' vs an archer or thrower, since they dismount instantly upon an attack (IF it hits), but you can still dismount yourself before a dexer attempts to dismount you, it's just harder because of the time frame you have to do so.
Currently on production shards, Bolas are better at dismounting players when they're riding ethereal mounts than weapon-based dismounts are, it's simple really, a bola cannot miss.
How would you propose a nerf to weapon-based dismounts as much as bolas? add a delay to them? damn, then they'd be the same as the bola (a consumable), but with additional things like costing mana.... it wouldn't work.
I don't disagree with mages not having Hci (mostly), but you know what, even with 0.0 skill points on your character you would still have a chance to hit someone with a bola.
The bola doesn't cost mana, teleport is a completely different thing, and you don't always NEED to teleport after your target when using a bola.
As the patch notes say, "Dismount Base-cost updated to 35 mana (pub 86) from 20 (production)", it was a nerf to weapon-based dismounts as well not just bolas.
We're talking about a mystic and in the case you've said you have ninja not med, so putting med in the equation makes no sense at all. Remember how you made it clear that you were trailblazing the way with ninja on your mystic and everyone followed because just like bola-ing and everything else you're the self proclaimed best ever?
Just like a heavy x-bow would mean it can miss.
Ok, if that's the case, let's do a study. You try and bola me without casting teleport again and again, and we'll see how often it goes off. Or you can even while using teleport on a human, which btw, isn't viable because it takes a lot longer to cast teleport on a character with 0 FC. Do you REALLY believe that you can bola effectively without teleport, anywhere NEAR the level of what a Dexxer/Archer can do?
Yes, but one doesn't ever miss if the target is there, but if they do miss they still have a dismount timer, a fair trade off. They can both be dodged? That's my point. That's why they are balanced AS IS.
That's not the reason Dexxers/Archers don't use bolas and you know it.
Even when someone holds a bola, I still know that they are bola'ing, usually because I've seen them use it once before, and second because they are a mage on foot disarmed. So bola's are OP because naked noob chars on foot can use them? lol I'm sorry, but if you get bola'd be noob chars on foot that are completely naked, and you think the solution is nerfing bolas, you need to terminate your subscription immediately, because this isn't the game for you lol. First off, you can kill those noobs practically instantly. Second off, it's tremendously easy to avoid their bolas, they can't even cast tele. Instead of crying about it, learn to play?
Saying that bola's will be useless after the change was just the resulting conclusion to my other points. It wasn't really much of a point in itself. As for the teleport and the weapon skills, I've more than adequately argued those points. If you don't get it by now it's hopeless.
But you WILL NEED ONE, if you have any intentions of dismounting, because again bola's will be useless. And you SHOULDN'T need one, because that's unfair.
If you think that my last paragraph supported YOUR argument as opposed to mine, you must not have really understood it...
You must have wrote up your response during the same time I, I saw back to back posts that look almost identical.
The point everyone is making is that a bola can be thrown by a noob char without casting teleport. So right off the bat you're wrong it CAN be thrown without teleporting.
Yes, but the point is, why should someone need a weapon skill and tactics just to dismount? It seems to me like the ability to dismount on a Dexxer/Archer is just on top of all the other abilities they have with those weapons. They could still bola if they wanted to...
I respect your opinion, but why? Simply because that's how you want it to be? (which is an ok point to make) I prefer that it's slightly worse, but not significantly, which is exactly how I think it is.
True, but you can do the same thing for bolas. Actually, I'd say bola's are easier, because you can predict when the bola is gonna hit based on when they started swinging it. I do it all the time. At least a weapon like a Bow, is hard to predict when they are going to dismount and shoot you.
Yes, but again, bola's can miss, and anyone that is good and/or fast doesn't have a hard time avoiding them.
I actually agree, that's why I think neither should be nerfed. I think if dismounts are a problem at all, it's because gimps can kill you seemingly instantly when you are on foot, due to what I've been arguing is their OP level of burst damage. I don't think dismounts alone are the problem. It's like if you fell down, and got hurt. Maybe if you fell down, it normally wouldn't be a big deal. But if you have osteoporosis (weak bones) now, you might break a bone and make a bad situation terrible.
No, but if you want the bola to be anywhere near as reliable as a dismount with say a bow, you do need to use mana. If you are able to dismount someone without casting teleport, it's usually because they are just plain bad.
True, but when you consider 55 LMC, and skill reductions in mana cost, it's the difference between 7 and 11 mana. Really not a big deal, considering they probably aren't going to dump all of their mana afterwords when they are on foot anyhow. Also considering casting teleport twice costs 7 mana. Trust me, it won't make a big difference. Not like the Bola nerf will anyhow.
I was being sarcastic, seeing as I play with covenant every time I play UO.
The point was, that your original assertion was that 55 LMC suits help mages just as much as dexxers. But that's not true, because it really only helps Mystics. It may help mystics in the field, as opposed to dueling, because the field is all about bust damage/mana, where as dueling is all about sustained damage/mana. But even if it is somewhat better for mystics, that doesn't mean it's better for ALL mages. And me running ninja on a mystic has nothing to do with that fact. And it's not .02 mana per second. Where did you get that from the calculation?
Well, what would I know, I'm just a hacking weaken spammer right?
