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Why is publish 98 altering the taming mastery?

Silent Singer

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Has anyone heard an official reason?

I'm honestly a little miffed. Consume damage doesn't affect PVP, it is purely a PVM mastery.

People have spent a lot of time these last few months training and scrolling pets for specific tasks. The mastery was absolutely part of the consideration when I calculated what pets I wanted to train for what mobs.

I just don't understand it.

Why?
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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There were those in the "nerf pet for pvp" thread who did complain about Consume Damage supposedly making pets "unkillable". I am not saying that is the reason for the nerf though. Just relaying info.

Makes no sense to me. Not only were pets 'trained' with that mastery in mind but plenty of suits were built around that as well. So once again the pvm'ers take hits to satisfy the fel crowd...
 

Prince Erik

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Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. At least now a Taming III primer may not be as important to tamers. A couple of my tamers still do not have one and I managed, though it's going to be a little less fun now that every time my pet runs off too far or teleports somewhere I can't see it or some stupid thing casts para on me and my Empowerment gets turned off. Ugh.

Not feeling very excited over this patch, TBH. :(
 

MalagAste

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There were those in the "nerf pet for pvp" thread who did complain about Consume Damage supposedly making pets "unkillable". I am not saying that is the reason for the nerf though. Just relaying info.

Makes no sense to me. Not only were pets 'trained' with that mastery in mind but plenty of suits were built around that as well. So once again the pvm'ers take hits to satisfy the fel crowd...
That's hogwash... Wish they would actually test stuff for reality before nerfing it...
 

PlayerSkillFTW

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Yeah, looks like they're nerfing the amount of HPR your pet can get from Consume Damage, capping it at +30, when it used to be capped at +150. When i'd run Consume Damage on my Saurosaurus and he was tanking the Slasher of Veils, whenever the Slasher would use his boulder barrage ability, my Saurosaurus would go from 20 HPR, to 170 HPR, and he'd heal back to full during each boulder barrage, lol. Only pet i've seen that can actually tank the Slasher of Veils.
 

Deadly Serious

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There were those in the "nerf pet for pvp" thread who did complain about Consume Damage supposedly making pets "unkillable". I am not saying that is the reason for the nerf though. Just relaying info.

Makes no sense to me. Not only were pets 'trained' with that mastery in mind but plenty of suits were built around that as well. So once again the pvm'ers take hits to satisfy the fel crowd...
Funny how I don't hear of any insane tamer pvper's.

The template is pretty screwed from the beginning if you are 120/120 real lore/taming, this change is pure bs. I really liked the idea of masteries, kit switching is pretty justified since you need real skill if you want to specialise in a mastery but tbh if they nerf consume damage to that degree taming mastery isn't as good as it should be vs kit switch and certainly not an ideal mastery choice pvp.
 

WhiteWitch

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People moan the devs dont listen, I personally think they are listening too much at the moment to too few people and over reacting.

Some PvPers, 4 or 5 maybe, moaned here about an apparent avalanche of tamers in PvP which it seemed other PvPers had not seen at all, and how overpowered these trained pets are(the substance of which boiled down to teleporting pets and dismounts really), the specials that everyone said would be an issue in PvP, in response to this they use a sledgehammer to crack a nut and bust out a ton of nerfs which consolidate the tamer as an exclusively Trammel spec, your GD becomes a mongbat the moment you step into Fel.

Its not that Im personally upset about these changes, my prodo shard tamers dont go to Fel and as soon as pub 97 hit I dropped taming on Siege and turned the char into a dexxer as those are way better than a tamer for PvM and PvP(both before and after pub 97), I just think its a worry when a single forum thread with relatvely few individual participants making large numbers of posts can get something nerfed through the floor this way.

Both sides in the thread in question even seemed to agree that nerfs should only apply to PvP, but now we have this consume damage one piled onto the others which clearly affects PvM, a measured and sensible nerf would have been on the pet special abilities, then wait and see if there is still an issue for people in PvP in the weeks after, if so make another change, fine tuning is better than the sledgehammer approach as historically its always far harder to get a nerf reversed than to make it.
 

Great DC

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There were those in the "nerf pet for pvp" thread who did complain about Consume Damage supposedly making pets "unkillable". I am not saying that is the reason for the nerf though. Just relaying info.

Makes no sense to me. Not only were pets 'trained' with that mastery in mind but plenty of suits were built around that as well. So once again the pvm'ers take hits to satisfy the fel crowd...
Noone in pvp cares about consume damage. Stop spreading such bs. Consume only works on phys dmg anyway, it wouldn't help pvp in anyway shape or form. I did always think it was OP for pvm though, just means youll have to actually play your character in pvm, instead of turning that one and going afk, I feel so bad for yas. LOL
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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People moan the devs dont listen, I personally think they are listening too much at the moment to too few people and over reacting.

Some PvPers, 4 or 5 maybe, moaned here about an apparent avalanche of tamers in PvP which it seemed other PvPers had not seen at all,
Yepp...

and judging from the "PvP Event" that happened on Atl this weekend the pets are NOWHERE near OP when it comes to PVP. I mean 3-4 reds were able to hold the place for a long time even with the so called "OP pets".. in fact the only time I saw them ran off is when the place got charged by 6+ different blue Crux members with their pets in tow.

So yeah.. I guess when you have 6+ people with pets in tow they suddenly become op against 3-4 reds...

I call major BS on that.. but *shrugs*... whatever... ain't gonna be in the "fix this or I quit" bunch no matter what. Gonna ride out UO until they close the servers ;)
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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Noone in pvp cares about consume damage. Stop spreading such bs.
Ain't spreading BS.. if the thread was still around and not edited heavily due to personal attacks etc I would quote you the posts by folks saying the very thing I say they said. Consume was specifically mentioned by a few different pvp people in that thread....
 

Great DC

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Not in regards to pvp! Maybe it got looked into cause it causes massive life leech against phys damage by the team themselves?? I use it when I do the roof and other high end bosses in pvm, but I don't need to, its just makes the game go easy button.
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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Not in regards to pvp! Maybe it got looked into cause it causes massive life leech against phys damage by the team themselves?? I use it when I do the roof and other high end bosses in pvm, but I don't need to, its just makes the game go easy button.

Pic worth 1000 words..

from the thread: PvP dying a painful death from Tamers Online

Consume.jpg


For those who may happen across this post who may not have reading comprehension skills...

"fantastic example of why this *expletive deleted* should be nerfed in pvm too" is the key part... you can't have "in pvm too" without it already applying to the pvp aspect...

Prosecution rests....

:next:
 

Great DC

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Im sure that was said due to all the pvmers personal attacks against pvpers in that thread. Maybe if pvmers didn't cry so much it wouldn't have been brought up. consume damage has always been OP in pvm, just no one cared to mention it. I took full advantage of its power when I did bosses, it doesnt mean it should be like that though. Youll just have to pay attention now and throw some heals, god forbid. LOL
 

Jovi

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There were those in the "nerf pet for pvp" thread who did complain about Consume Damage supposedly making pets "unkillable". I am not saying that is the reason for the nerf though. Just relaying info.

Makes no sense to me. Not only were pets 'trained' with that mastery in mind but plenty of suits were built around that as well. So once again the pvm'ers take hits to satisfy the fel crowd...
Consume damage only works for physical damage.

It's not god mode in pvp, just use elemental damage.

A few individual is causing changes that screw up the game. We paid a lot for these.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Jovi

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It's time to catch these few guys who ask to make absurd changes like this. Either they are noob pvper or they are trying to destroy UO community further...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Deadly Serious

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My argument isn't with consume damage in pvm in any way but what good are taming masteries in pvp now? consume damage had a strength here I'm guessing but now I'm not sure what to make of it, as I've said already the issue with me is kit switching taming > real taming in regards to a pvp template anyway.

I hear Berserk is a 10 second crapfest, should make the pet get on roids and charge at something like a mofo.
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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While the ability was quite powerful in PvM, reducing it's effectiveness by 80% is WAY too much.
Agreed.. but I am in process of hitting tc to test so I can give my honest opinion of it once I actually see how bad the impact actually is. Doubt it will change anything that is already planned but at least I can say I tried *shrugs*
 

leet

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No one in pvp cared about consume damage, maybe its because they saw my sweet Gif?



About the current state of "pvm" in ultima online?
 

Cetric

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Now that Kylie brought me into this, I'm just gunna say this.

I in no way worked to have consume damage nerfed, that comment is taken out of context. Should it be nerfed because it's op in pvm and creates an easy mode button? Sure, Yea probably, but I could care less what is or isn't op in pvm. It is not used in PvP.

Carry on
 

MissEcho

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Nerf's like this make me wanna quit. I have a lvl 3 on one of my tamers. It has allowed me to part take in some stuff I never bothered with before because mobs were too hard on pets. Even with consume damage I still ran vet and healed with spells. There is absolutely NO BOSS that I could set my pet on and go afk with consume running. For a start you run out of mana pretty quick on any boss fight so then need to wait for MR. My tamer has 18 MR and still had trouble keeping it up. If it is as they say nerfed by 80% I just dont see the point in having a level 3.

I had finally started actually enjoying my tamer again, if this is the nerf then I guess i don't bother with her.

I think the rehashed crap for gifts is just that...... CRAP.

What happened to putting those books (alacrity, power scroll, transcendane) onto the clean up point roster? That was what was stated at meet and greet even though they SHOULD BE able to be inscribed. Instead, yep put it on another 'gift' and re create the same problem they have now. Those who only get ONE char end up with stuff that is needed in game but no way to obtain it unless they use their ONE selection on a rehashed essential item.

I guess that Ilshenar recall thing is only gonna be available as a rare 'drop' or something, again, another thing put in as a one off thing.

Totally disappointing, I am OVER it.
 

MalagAste

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So back to not being able to do anything at all on my tamer again and put them back in storage because they are once again useless as all get out.... can't do spawns, can't do bosses, can't do peerless, can't do anything but hunt basic mobs... USELESS....

So everyone must now run a PvP only template or be a Sampire to play and enjoy UO????????
 

Pawain

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Im sure that was said due to all the pvmers personal attacks against pvpers in that thread. Maybe if pvmers didn't cry so much it wouldn't have been brought up. consume damage has always been OP in pvm, just no one cared to mention it. I took full advantage of its power when I did bosses, it doesnt mean it should be like that though. Youll just have to pay attention now and throw some heals, god forbid. LOL
You can dictate how people play in PvM? What template am I allowed to play? Since you decide these things.

A samphire can kill 20 things at once but my pet is too OP because it can kill one thing at a time. You make sooo much sense....
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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So back to not being able to do anything at all on my tamer again and put them back in storage because they are once again useless as all get out.... can't do spawns, can't do bosses, can't do peerless, can't do anything but hunt basic mobs... USELESS....
After testing it some on TC...

Consume is nowhere what it was but would not go so far as to say high end bosses are off limits again. The buffed stats/resists of a level 5 pet still allow the pet to hit things that were off limits to us a couple of months ago.

Maybe after getting a few folks to test it out and let @Bleak know they are carrying it too low they will reconsider taking it all the way down to 30. IMO 30 just cuts it to the bone.
 

railshot

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I don't understand it. Seriously, who had a problem with consume damage? With so many problems that need fixing, devs had to go and break something that was working fine for a couple of years.
Consume damage requires a max MR suit and template to be useful. Even then, it's mana consumption is high enough that throwing GHeals in there or other spells with any regularity is not possible. It was not OP, it had it's downsides. I guess it's downfall was in that it was useful and people liked it.
 

Fridgster

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The nerfing of consume damage makes no sense. It has been this way for two years. It seems like the devs felt that with the new pet changes combined with consume damage it was overpowered.
I have a few concerns about this. First being the suits and pet builds that players have invested tremendous time and gold into. Seems like a raw deal.
Second is the greater dragon. I can understand the devs reasoning for the reduction (don't agree with it but understand it). Problem is by nerfing consume damage you have nerfed the greater dragon because the GD doesn't get bonus from training. Just my two cents.
 

MalagAste

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After testing it some on TC...

Consume is nowhere what it was but would not go so far as to say high end bosses are off limits again. The buffed stats/resists of a level 5 pet still allow the pet to hit things that were off limits to us a couple of months ago.

Maybe after getting a few folks to test it out and let @Bleak know they are carrying it too low they will reconsider taking it all the way down to 30. IMO 30 just cuts it to the bone.
Since you can't stand anywhere NEAR your pet from the area effect crap that most mobs put out now..... Yes... yes they are off limits... since standing beside your pet to Vet is a joke anymore and you die in .25 seconds...

And Again I have to say nerfing it this bad makes it NOT WORTH bothering to use it as the cost per effect is TOO HIGH... too much mana cost for the piss poor return.
 

MrMightySmith

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Just a bad change in my book because this has no affect on PVP and is almost what a sampire is for a pet. I didn't really want to see a big sampire Nerf at this point in time but wanted to see other templates become viable as well. Taming III scrolls and the Consume Damage ability was a good option along with the pet training publish. The ability for another template to get up on par with the sampire and one day id love to see a mage revamp happen as well.
 

Great DC

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Wait wait wait, did anyone even read the patch note or just jump on the bandwagon?



It was a bug to begin with and never intended. Carry on *looks for condescending emoji* :next:
I like the line above that about taming mastery combat training can be broken when out of range, "DEAD", or paralyze.

Did the mastery work before when your were dead??? LOLOL
This gave me quite the chuckle.
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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Since you can't stand anywhere NEAR your pet from the area effect crap that most mobs put out now..... Yes... yes they are off limits... since standing beside your pet to Vet is a joke anymore and you die in .25 seconds...
Definitely a fair point when it comes to vet. One of the main reasons my archer/tamer stays at home. The only way he has to heal his pet is with vet. Will prob get flamed for this but maybe they should take a look at allowing a larger radius for being able to vet your pet.
 

MalagAste

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Definitely a fair point when it comes to vet. One of the main reasons my archer/tamer stays at home. The only way he has to heal his pet is with vet. Will prob get flamed for this but maybe they should take a look at allowing a larger radius for being able to vet your pet.
I've tried standing back behind my pet a tile or two and either you can't see it or you aren't close enough to Vet... You get either one of the two messages... and if you move in closer standing JUST behind your pet.... you die nearly instantly anytime the area effect damage goes off... making it impossible to vet. Vet skill is almost useless at this point except to raise your dead pet. Which at that point you may as well stone off the skill and just put it on when you need to rez a pet and put something on that is more useful.

Or at this point my disgust is reaching an all time high.... just say F this and close the accounts and walk away since they are killing the game and taking all fun out...

I for one REFUSE to play a Sampire..... and I refuse to PvP or give a rats about PvP.
 

Great DC

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I've tried standing back behind my pet a tile or two and either you can't see it or you aren't close enough to Vet... You get either one of the two messages... and if you move in closer standing JUST behind your pet.... you die nearly instantly anytime the area effect damage goes off... making it impossible to vet. Vet skill is almost useless at this point except to raise your dead pet. Which at that point you may as well stone off the skill and just put it on when you need to rez a pet and put something on that is more useful.

Or at this point my disgust is reaching an all time high.... just say F this and close the accounts and walk away since they are killing the game and taking all fun out...

I for one REFUSE to play a Sampire..... and I refuse to PvP or give a rats about PvP.
:violin::violin::violin:
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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Was bored so decided to hop over to TC and see if a 2 slot Naja can go to level 5 without a jump and it did... YAYY!! While I was there I thought I would take a few screenshots just to illustrate why people are ticked about the Consume Damage nerf.. tweak... neutering... whatever ya wanna call it.

Naja against one Bally with Consume Damage Level 3 - 115 real tame and lore:

one bally.jpg


Same Naja against one Bally and two Mummies - same skill level etc:

Bally two mummies.jpg

Same Naja against two Bally's - same skill level etc:

two ballys.jpg

Naja's stats:

Naja Stats.jpg
C'mon @Bleak.. can ya cut us a break here :)

Lowering to 30 is too far. Lot of time invested by a lot of folks on just acquiring a Taming 3, suit build, pet builds etc just to watch it all fall in the "junk" pile..

Or can we expect nerfs to OP things such as 'Onslaught' etc next?
 

Great DC

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You do realize that balrons don't do 100 physical damage right? So your example doesn't actually show anything.
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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You do realize that balrons don't do 100 physical damage right? So your example doesn't actually show anything.
Yes, I realize Bally's only do 50% Physical.. but I disagree it does not show anything. It shows how ineffective Consume Damage is at the level they are cutting it to. But.. to each their own.
 

MalagAste

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You do realize that balrons don't do 100 physical damage right? So your example doesn't actually show anything.
Balrons also have **** loot and don't do any AOE damage... So it isn't a good test of how garbage the new publish is and how it's going to totally nerf taming back to oblivion and end in the fact that they gave us something and then destroyed it so the entire publish 97 was a joke. How's that for you.

Not only did publish 97 give us pets that promised to raise the tamer back to usefulness and let us use pets that aren't total garbage or get away from the GD... But now they have successfully thanks to all the whining by PvPers... put us BACKWARDS to be even WEAKER than BEFORE Publish 97... that's just fanfreakingtastic.....
 

sacred fungus

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I don't think they should promote an AFK type of playstyle.

Seems like the right move to tone down consume damage.

Also tamers seem far from underpowered in pvm. Bards, mages, T-hunters should be the ones complaining about being underpowered in pvm.
 
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Great DC

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Yes, I realize Bally's only do 50% Physical.. but I disagree it does not show anything. It shows how ineffective Consume Damage is at the level they are cutting it to. But.. to each their own.
I just went on TC and fought the T-rex with consume damage on (hes 100 phys dmg). I let it fight it for about ten minutes and didn't have throw a single heal as my cu sidhe stayed at full life. Only damage was from the occasional armor ignore the t-rex did, which he healed right back up from within a minute.
 

Poo

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im really having a hard time taking any of the people in here seriously.
170HPR?????
really?
you dont think that was a bug?

being able to go make a sandwich while your pet solo's the hardest mobs in game is pretty silly.
i have never used the spell, i dont have any level 3 primers on any of my tamers so this effects me = zero.

sure is funny to watch everyone loose their pancakes over it though!
 

Deadly Serious

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Peacemaking mastery is easier to upkeep than consume damage I believe, keeps not only pet but player safe too ^^

peace 2 songs on = 24% damage reduction, 24% DCI, 16 HPR/MR/SR, immune to lvl 4 poisons and below, curse/bleed duration lowered
(I can destroy a Paragon Cu Sidhe with a full trained Nightmare, 2 peace songs up always and spamming fireballs and heals for ....1 minute before running out of mana).

I'm not impressed by Animal Taming as a mastery anymore but i'll keep saying this hoping for balance, kit switching taming skill > taming real skill. I'd like to see animal masters have more control/power over there pets, maybe focus it toward pvp.
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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didn't have throw a single heal as my cu sidhe stayed at full life.
To take a page outta your book.... that actually proves nothing. The Cu does the healing for you in addition to the Consume Damage and very few pets in game come with that nice little feature... What level healing does the Cu have by the way?

im really having a hard time taking any of the people in here seriously.
170HPR?????
really?
you dont think that was a bug?
A 2 year bug of that magnitude? :confused:

Sure, I will give you that 170 was too much.. but gutting that to 30? C'mon.. that is just ridiculous.. If they are truly looking for balance why not actually balance it with this Pub instead of neutering the hell out of it?
 

TB Cookie [W]

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Just a bad change in my book because this has no affect on PVP and is almost what a sampire is for a pet. I didn't really want to see a big sampire Nerf at this point in time but wanted to see other templates become viable as well. Taming III scrolls and the Consume Damage ability was a good option along with the pet training publish. The ability for another template to get up on par with the sampire and one day id love to see a mage revamp happen as well.
Bingo, exactly how I feel.
As a mage, I was happy the tamers got their publish, it looked awesome, and put them back in the game.
I also have a tamer, I'm not as good as these other guys on a tamer, but it enabled me to play content I've not been able to do, and I've enjoyed it.
As I'm not so focused on a tamer, I'm not so affected, but I get it.
 
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