If this is the type of thing that bothers you, you have bigger issues than UO.
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If this is the type of thing that bothers you, you have bigger issues than UO.
No offense but I have to agree lol.
"ML elf/nature-themed specials on classic Britannian weapons" thing drives me insane"
Thats a very scary statement. I am thinking it was only a short drive.
No one claimed this point before, no one correct this point now.
Everyone said nothing about it. It means "Acceptable".
Have we tested it?
Nonetheless, the short bus does not discriminate.
Sure it does
Oh no, you're right, I just didn't say anything for a lot of reasons. For one I'm thinking, based on how they wrote the Publish Notes, that the weapon stuff is actually out for now. (I had the impression that the new notes totally superseded the new notes.)
For another I also primarily focused on the armor stuff, and the weapon stuff kinda faded into the background for me. If I'd taken more note of the weapon stuff, I'm entirely positive they would've irked me for exactly the same reasons they irked you.
I'm crossing my fingers that those changes are out, or the team can be talked out of them. Same for the LMC stuff. I'm hoping they can be talked out of it as they were out of the catastrophic stamina changes.
I'd far rather have a team that can come up with bad ideas then be talked out of them than have a team that either doesn't listen at all or one that only listens to select, loud voices!!
-Galen's player
This is what bothers me..
Basically, if you use a 1-h weapon you could use a shield for additional properties like +5 hci, +10 SSI, up to +35% damage increase, and more... (giving up potions)
If you use a 2-handed weapon with the same speed (or 0.25s faster (doesn't matter because SSI is capped at 1.25s anyway)) you gain +0 - +1 damage. (giving up potions, OR giving up Parry for potions).
for a +1 maximum damage bonus for using two item slots in one item... it's still not worth using a 2-handed weapon over a 1-handed one.
Then you see that... while the damage looks good on one of those weapons, they're still imbalanced... Arrow limit doesn't balance this out.
How hard is it to carry 500 arrows & bolts? (2 quivers), and check to see how many you have before going to fight anything ?
Sure it'll happen on rare occasion, one runs out of arrows... but you know what else won't happen, even on rare occasion? a Melee dexer NOT getting hit by the targets Melee damage. (Pvm, OR pvp)
If I read this post right, it's about 1-handed vs 2-handed?
If so, I think it may matter for your argument, specifically for your last example, that the Paladin Sword is two-handed. And that there's only one, the Redeemer artifact, that's legally available.
Sorry if I missing something.
-Galen's player
Correct,
One-handed vs Two-handed & Melee vs Ranged.
I'm trying to say it's not worth using a two-handed weapon instead of a one-handed one. (the bonus damage isn't sufficient enough to take up two item slots)
It's Also not worth going melee over being ranged. (The weapon specials is the only reason melee is still "viable" since no ranged weapons have whirlwind (PvM))
Two-handed Melee weapons & Ranged Weapons seem to use about the same dps formula.
IMO it should be like this, or something similar
Two-handed Melee Weapons.
Base Speed - Base Damage
5s = 25 - 28
4.75s = 24 - 27
4.5s = 23 - 26
4.25s = 22 - 25
4s = 21 - 24
3.75s = 20 - 23
3.5s = 19 - 22
3.25s = 18 - 21
3s = 17 - 20
2.75s = 16 - 19
2.5s = 15 - 18
2.25s = 14 - 17
2s = 13 - 16
Ranged Weapons one & two-handed
Base Speed - Base Damage
5s = 20 - 24
4.75s = 19 - 23
4.5s = 18 - 22
4.25s = 17 - 21
4s = 16 - 20
3.75s = 15 - 19
3.5s = 14 - 18
3.25s = 13 - 17
3s = 12 - 16
2.75s = 11 - 15
2.5s = 10 - 14
2.25s = 9 - 13
2s = 8 - 12
One-Handed Melee Weapons
Base Speed - Base Damage
5s = 20 - 23
4.75s = 19 - 22
4.5s = 18 - 21
4.25s = 17 - 20
4s = 16 - 19
3.75s = 15 - 18
3.5s = 14 - 17
3.25s = 13 - 16
3s = 12 - 15
2.75s = 11 - 14
2.5s = 10 - 13
2.25s = 9 - 12
2s = 8 - 11
I also think Armor Ignore needs a nerf...because with a percentage based resistance, anything that completely bypasses it, is going to be "The Best".
maybe make it do like weapon damage -40% (it would hit mobs as if they have 40% resistance to all damage types) ... *but i guess it wouldn't "Ignore" Armor* would it...
maybe make it do like weapon damage -40% (it would hit mobs as if they have 40% resistance to all damage types) ... *but i guess it wouldn't "Ignore" Armor* would it...
Armor Ignore (and Lightning Strike to a lesser but similar extent) completely bypass the resists system.
Yeah thats broken, but any dev trying to touch those will be staked, stabbed, and burned by the community.
Very true. It is hard for other specials to compete against one which eliminates and entire aspect of game play (resists), without doing something similar (which is not good raod to travel down).
It would still be ignoring a portion of the target's armor. There is no reason that it has to ignore 100% (that is just the way it works now). If altering AI makes it easier to adjust the remaining special moves to become comparable/useful/desireable, then I am all for it.
Stayin Alive,
BG
Oh ok, I guess I did misunderstand you then.
I thought you were comparing 1-handed close up to 2-handed range.....And of course the Paladin Sword isn't 1-handed.
I will certainly sign on to the notion that 2-handed weapons need a boost in general but I must offer the following point: Thanks to SSI and high stamina/dex, it is possible for certain heavy-hitting 2-handed weapons to swing at max. Ornate Axe. Double Axe. Are the 2 that most immediately come to mind.
A certain balance issue could present itself.
Would wielders of 2-handed weapons, perhaps, accept increased base damage coupled with a higher overall swing speed cap? (Say, 1.5 or even 1.75 swing/second instead of 1.25?)
I have one character of 3 that uses 2 handed weapons (axes in particular) but I'm still not really qualified to address this or offer up an answer.
-Galen's player
I thought you were comparing 1-handed close up to 2-handed range.....And of course the Paladin Sword isn't 1-handed.
I will certainly sign on to the notion that 2-handed weapons need a boost in general but I must offer the following point: Thanks to SSI and high stamina/dex, it is possible for certain heavy-hitting 2-handed weapons to swing at max. Ornate Axe. Double Axe. Are the 2 that most immediately come to mind.
A certain balance issue could present itself.
Would wielders of 2-handed weapons, perhaps, accept increased base damage coupled with a higher overall swing speed cap? (Say, 1.5 or even 1.75 swing/second instead of 1.25?)
I have one character of 3 that uses 2 handed weapons (axes in particular) but I'm still not really qualified to address this or offer up an answer.
-Galen's player
Black Staff is a personal favorite for PVM. I like the option to enhance a 6th property and getting max swing speed is very achievable. I don't use pots which might not work for some.
Spell Breaker
Spell Breaker
True... but that's for wooden only items
. I would bet you, if Macing had a one-handed whirlwind weapon, you wouldn't be using a Black Staff to begin with
Am I right?Same goes for fencing, fencing has no one-handed whirlwind weapons either.
After some testing (long ago) we decided on maces. We reviewed the damage output of all the ww weapons (swords, fencing and maces) along with the fact we do not use pots. We loved using UOA for the ability to set a pot macro. Sadly, we can not use UOA anymore because we play on Mac computers. The 6th property was very favorable and Maces worked down the stamina (not sure if that got changed) which is very nice. That being said the Black Staff fit the bill!
Side note - we also use Diamond Maces for higher damage
I do totally agree with you CovenantX most of the time peps would choose one hander.
Spell Breaker
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I'm not sure, it's already capped to 35 dmg. A nerf would make the special pretty pointless, unless the goal is to trash another dexer template. They would have to lift the damage cap and then scale the damage. I don't see that happening any time soon.
Also, if they want to help two handed weapons they need to remove the axe / lumberjack nerf they put in before. That pretty much made axes worthless.
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How is this broken? I been out of game for a bit, but both AI and LS were to ignore resist (AI 90%, and LS 100% on a crit) but still subject to the damage caps both pvp and pvm.
Has something changed?
No. People keep trying to say this but read the notes. It straight-up says you can trade away max resists to gain bonuses to your DCI cap. Period. If you think otherwise, quote the part that says so. This debacle is confusing enough without people just making things up.
Oh please, hardcore forum nerds managed to argue over it for five pages and even the guy arguing that it was totally simple needed to fight for a few posts before he got it right. Imagine trying to explain it to some random newb at the bank who never goes to Stratics and doesn't know why his 8 LMC gloves add 9 LMC to him and 11 LMC to his buddy. You'll say a bunch of crap and he'll nod, but what do you think the odds are he'll get it right when he goes to explain it to someone else?
Plus, not to be rude, but I don't want to hear about how easily understood things are until you tell me how you read "DCI cap bonus up to 95" and somehow got "DCI cap of 45 but you can overcap it to defend against HLD!" Because that second one describes exactly how the game has worked since AOS so I'm not sure why you would think there would be a patch note about it now.
Would you be cool with Concussion Blow on a kryss or Infecting Strike on a club? There are certain rules that are usually followed. Elf moves go on elf weapons, bushido and ninjitsu moves go on Japanese weapons, Whirlwind goes on big weapons, Infecting goes on sharp ones, stuff like that. I slap on a big iron war mace and now there's an icon of a tree staring back at me. What's that about? My ugly ass war mace just inherently harnesses the power of nature now?
No man, look really close at the new notes. The only weapon special changes are ones that restore the daisho and leafblade to their default production shard specials. If they were also restoring everything else to default, there wouldn't be any need to single those two out.
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Well, ****.
Yes, team, please keep the specials with a certain amount of RP immersion.
Obviously messing with Feint on the Leafblade is going to cause flipouts, unfortunately, but that's a special case. No one is going to flip out over Force of Nature, not the most widely used special move (I don't even know what it does) not being put on one of the human mace weapons.
-Galen's player
When I read the postings saying it was no big deal I wrote up nearly the exact reply but I deleted it simply due to my belief that worrying about it was silly and wastefull. Not that I don't think that having stuff within reasonable context is the correct way to go, I do, but more so that if I really start putting in more thought about stuff like this I will go all the more insane thinking about other stuff that has been added to the game which annoyed me.
RPG's have had a history of following some semi straight path which makes sense to most people. For those of us who played D&D in our youth we might recall that certainly some imagination was required but also some common sense was needed at the same time to make it all work as per the design, UO should be no different. Think about UO way back in 98, there would have been no room for errors such as "Concussion Blow on a kryss or Infecting Strike on a club"(not that the specials were there but still).
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I wonder if all pvp damage will be capped at 35 someday
Spell Breaker
Spell Breaker
it's broken because it's too good, nothing else can compete with armor ignore.
Start with a FS...caps ruined the game IMHO. I mage can stand there knowing it takes three hits to kill him...imagine if we had a small chance to hit for 75 damage. Mages might actually heal when they get to 3/4 but why bother to heal, hell he knows even if both spell procs go off you do maybe 45/50. He will just cast the last FS to finish you off...no chance to disrupt as he is in pro
Bring back the drive by war hammer...boom dead...............we need more randomness in this game!!!
First, none of them can even come close to compare to AI, those things have their own limits....
Pets/RC (No slayer capabilities), but you know, the RC uses Armor Ignore, which is just One reason they are better than greater dragons.
Slayer Spellbooks + SDI + Scribe, sure.. it does good damage, but anything with 60% resistance will take more from a single armor ignore, than it would a single flamestrike (Weapons attack faster than spells because you can be interrupted while casting spells)
WoD, if you're in a full (Max SDI suit) you can break 1.1k damage.... but, you can only use it when the target is below 20% hp in the first place.
things like conc and crushing should have the ability to go over 45 if you are heavy on damage increase and tact/anat, but they dont, you are lucky to make them equal to AIs
most people run enough skill and damage to make sure their AIs hit 35 and then they focus the rest in other skills, stats, etc.. that can continue, but if you invest more you should be able to do more damage with the big, slow weaps. massive base damage increases should take care of that. along with a slight lowing of the high base speeds. I myself have run dexers with over 800 skill, with just enough dmg to ai at 35, with 90 tactics and 61 anatomy. Its convenience with the AI. massive ivnestments in tact/anat/damage increase using a different damaging special like the others mentioned shouldn't be its equal, it should blow it out of the water.
most people run enough skill and damage to make sure their AIs hit 35 and then they focus the rest in other skills, stats, etc.. that can continue, but if you invest more you should be able to do more damage with the big, slow weaps. massive base damage increases should take care of that. along with a slight lowing of the high base speeds. I myself have run dexers with over 800 skill, with just enough dmg to ai at 35, with 90 tactics and 61 anatomy. Its convenience with the AI. massive ivnestments in tact/anat/damage increase using a different damaging special like the others mentioned shouldn't be its equal, it should blow it out of the water.
In PvM? still doesn't compete over time.
CovenantX and Cetric are correct. If it wasn't the case no one would have spent millions making those super AIing sampires. Over time nothing can do the same steady damage and the game has almost evolved to see that that one special is a must.
Well you were very vague, but 35 di is nothing. Nerve strike can easily exceed AI + Spell and if Archery Velocity damage.
Base damage + 25 Direct (120 Bush) + Hit Spell.
You don't seem to know your game mechanics very well. no offense.
nerve strike does not easily exceed, at least anymore.
archery and throwing can go big on damage due to velocity yes, but they also have to use an AI to get it to compete lol. the extra velocity damage, or hit spells, does not lend itself to the argument about how much damage a special can do. you can add those to an ai just as easily as a shadow strike.
the nerve strike thing isn't even an argument, if anything, it lends to the argument. it is a 2sec weap that does good damage. wheres the love for the heavy weapons? the bokuto is a stick for christ sake.
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Yeah this stuff bothers people, and it doesn't even serve any purpose. The reworked Force of Nature is worthless, and not one single person is going to pick up a dead-slow war mace to use it.
Well like I said, you were being vague on several issues.
To contradict you I do know a bit about game mechanics, even being absent for almost 2 years.
Here is a fresh screen shot of a nerve strike with 100 bush, 100 DI, 120 Anat and 120 Tactics. Note this is not the optimum damage as the direct damage part is scaled by bushido skill - ref http://www.uoguide.com/Nerve_Strike which can range from 15-25 Direct.
With the same stick I can land 35 + SD Lightning Strikes.
As for 2 handed weapons, well the damage caps keep the muzzle on the dog so to speak.
Well like I said, you were being vague on several issues.
To contradict you I do know a bit about game mechanics, even being absent for almost 2 years.
Here is a fresh screen shot of a nerve strike with 100 bush, 100 DI, 120 Anat and 120 Tactics. Note this is not the optimum damage as the direct damage part is scaled by bushido skill - ref http://www.uoguide.com/Nerve_Strike which can range from 15-25 Direct.
With the same stick I can land 35 + SD Lightning Strikes.
As for 2 handed weapons, well the damage caps keep the muzzle on the dog so to speak.
you hit a gaman with a nerve strike, and some hit spell went off. your base hit nerve strike appears to have done 13, with the nerve doing 15 for a total of 28. 28 is not 35.
yes it can nerve up to 25, but it is definitely not a guarantee, and very few people would consider maxing out damage for a bokuto like that. Nerve strike is one of the few other heavily useful specials, but as i said, it doesn't lend to the discussion because it is on a 2sec weap. the fact this crappy wooden weapon has a special that can out damage someone wielding a hally, or a war hammer in a single hit is rediculous.
Hmm... didn't Nervestrike get nerfed some awhile ago........ (Pub 69 apparently)
"Corrected damage calculation of special move: Nerve Strike damage is now a little more variable with a chance for zero to ten less damage."
http://stratics.com/community/threa...ld-wide-release-12-16-10.230142/#post-1875806
Granted.. it does say "chance" so since I don't know for sure it probably still does that max 25 but it's definitely less often... Anyway, yea it's stilly. A Halberd should hurt more than a stick lol. The whole reason AI was capped at 35 though was to nuke 2 hit kill dexxers so they really cannot make big hitters come back without making that a possibility again. Imagine if you had to HEAL on a mage after EVERY hit or risk death, bc that's how it used to be!
Completely bypass? As in they do the same damage as if the target had 0 resists? Wrong. So they in fact do not bypass the resists system.
But since we are talking about bypassing resists let talk about the Curse spell shall we? Lmao.
PvM I land AI's for upwards of 190's but I'm not sure if I am following the direction of the picture or not.Well like I said, you were being vague on several issues.
To contradict you I do know a bit about game mechanics, even being absent for almost 2 years.
Here is a fresh screen shot of a nerve strike with 100 bush, 100 DI, 120 Anat and 120 Tactics. Note this is not the optimum damage as the direct damage part is scaled by bushido skill - ref http://www.uoguide.com/Nerve_Strike which can range from 15-25 Direct.
With the same stick I can land 35 + SD Lightning Strikes.
As for 2 handed weapons, well the damage caps keep the muzzle on the dog so to speak.
For PvP NS is a useful hit for the nerve element more so than the damage given that it might allow you to follow up with a deathstrike or AI if you swapped weapons out this is why 95% of people have hit lighting rather than fireball. It's also useful for the gank as it might allow enough time for a dismounter to get lucky. I'm sure that everyone has tried the NSing dexxer(those that dex) but most of us went back to a DS/AI combo as the damage was better and far easier to milk.
Actually Logrus isn't wrong YOU are. Lighting strike WHEN it crits & AI both completely ignore resists. If your talking about lighting strikes that DONT crit then you just failed reading comprehension is all......
Also.... you do realize that MAGE damage output is pretty much balanced under the assumption the target is cursed. If a Mage kills your dexxer in an even fight & your NOT cursed then umm.. to put it nicely your Bad...
And lastly.... CURSE...
play a dexxer much?? Every Mage that I know that PvP ASSUMES he will be cursed fighting another mage.
Incorrect. My point was quite clearly that my weapon will do alot more then 35 points of damage if the target has 0 resist as opposed to the 35 point ignore to a char with resists.Actually Logrus isn't wrong YOU are. Lighting strike WHEN it crits & AI both completely ignore resists. If your talking about lighting strikes that DONT crit then you just failed reading comprehension is all......
Also.... you do realize that MAGE damage output is pretty much balanced under the assumption the target is cursed. If a Mage kills your dexxer in an even fight & your NOT cursed then umm.. to put it nicely your Bad...
And lastly.... CURSE...
play a dexxer much?? Every Mage that I know that PvP ASSUMES he will be cursed fighting another mage.
And the only people who think mage damage balance is based upon a cursed target are mages using the Curse spell lol.
Its an overpowered gimp spell no matter how you slice it.
Mages complaining about armor ignore are a joke. God forbid something a warrior does causes them to have to cast heal once or twice before they get off a huge combo lol.
I guess then that warrior damage output is balanced under the assumption that they will be using bushido and ignores so whats the issue? Its all good then and nobody needs to ever complain about armor ignore again.
Armor Ignore does the same damage if the target has 0 resists or 100 resists.
A Crit on lightning strike does the same damage if the target has 0 resists or 100 resists.
So yes they do bypass the entire resists system.
The Curse spell effectively increases spell damage by up to 30%. While I don't agree that it should be required much less possible to keep someone in a perpetual state of debuff, curse is probably the only way magery can remain semi competitive at delivering damage in PvP.
PvP
Flame Strike with 120 Eval/Magery/30 SDI/ GM Scribe/ 150 Int does damage 110-119. (33-35 @ 70 Resists, 44-47 @60 Resists)
Armor Ignore does up to 35. With a lightning proc that can go up to 44 vs All 70's resist.
This would mean that the maximum single spell damage a mage can inflict on an all 70's target is Equivalent to armor ignore with no procs.
May consider Curse the equivalent of weapon procs for mages.
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Thats ludicrous.
Weapon spell procs are random & weapons whiff. It is laughable that you keep trying to balance mage damage vs weapon damage with static numbers.
Lets not forget that weapons can be chain disarmed by a mage and parry damn near completely negates them
Okay then.
Lets remove weapon procs and the Curse spell from pvp completely. Wanna see how that shakes out?
*shakes head*
Kyronix said that the build would go on test center when it had undergone internal testing. You're wanting them to skip that?
IF you want them to get this publish right, you're going to have to acquire an out-of-game virtue. Patience.
IF you want them to get this publish right, you're going to have to acquire an out-of-game virtue. Patience.
It's called Statistics... That random Proc or hit/miss will have an AVERAGE that will indeed pan out given enough attempts. Granted there are other things that factor into Mage vs Warrior PvP but if you PvP at all you should be well aware of them. How about making your point more clear? Is it just Mages in general that you think are OP or is it just curse? If you can explain it and say why you feel curse is OP etc.... It's not like Curse has changed in oh...... what like 15 YEARS lol.
I have 2 doubts about all this :
1) the armor refinement are used on each piece of the armor? or aplied as a whole set of armor? its doesnt make any sense the way you explain it
2) it says we can apply Refinements to non-medable armor, and there 7 intensities, but if i mix Maxresists ones, and Max DCI ones, what will happen? ill get 75 resist cap? and 95 dci cap? or ill get less than actual 70 resists and less than 45 dci cap? OR WHAT?
Seriously, we need much more info about how it works so we can make any feedback (once it hits TC1)
PD : And about the Max resist, we can icrease it to 75 , +5 more than now, but we have SEVEN levels of intensity? ... doenst make any sense ....
What, did they forget internal testing existed when they said it would be out early in the week? Don't act like I'm some sort of idiot for noticing when they say things and then they don't happen. Again, it's totally cool that it's delayed. I just hope it's because they looked at continuing feedback and decided they needed to make more changes before bothering to proceed to testing.
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