ty 4 goooood belly laugh. now to clean keyboard.
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Yeah resists need to be balanced though personally * and I know some will disagree* I rather they not just make all armor medable.
These links are a quite interesting read and I have to admit, that things are far worse than I Imagined.
But it's up to the devs to make such a decision...
From my personal experience, I can say, that it is hard, tedious and resource consuming to replace such intertwined code, but in the long run it always paid off...
But it's up to the devs to make such a decision...
At least two teams, and I'd be shocked if there weren't more I had forgotten about, had spoken about the Random Number Generator. One said "we're making a new one." Another, later, said "apparently the RNG doesn't want to be fixed, by the way."
However, this is something of a distraction, as the DCI/HLD changes are rather bad regardless of the RNG.
Even if the DCI/HLD changes do work perfectly, a system wherein HLD scales defense lost such that you can be in a worse position if you either have more DCI or a higher DCI cap is bad.
And a system wherein the DCI cap can be 95 for anyone is also bad, especially in PvM.
-Galen's player
However, this is something of a distraction, as the DCI/HLD changes are rather bad regardless of the RNG.
Even if the DCI/HLD changes do work perfectly, a system wherein HLD scales defense lost such that you can be in a worse position if you either have more DCI or a higher DCI cap is bad.
And a system wherein the DCI cap can be 95 for anyone is also bad, especially in PvM.
-Galen's player
Every time I read about the wonderful RNG system I think of this comic strip:
Why not randomize a few of the weapon specials but only on monster loot. They stay the same for crafted items. Easy to do, and fun if you get the right weapon combo. But only on brittle weapons or something. Then we could see how some of the specials might play out on other weapons, or in other places, and it would be pretty easy to change if they didn't work out. And with brittle spawned on those items, they'd soon disappear if one happened to be overpowered.
Easy to do, and fun if you get the right weapon combo. But only on brittle weapons or something. Then we could see how some of the specials might play out on other weapons, or in other places, and it would be pretty easy to change if they didn't work out. And with brittle spawned on those items, they'd soon disappear if one happened to be overpowered.
Huh? Especially?
I cant be reading this correctly.
You are seriously concerned in any way that your pvmer may be hurt/affected by the new dci changes?
That is laughable.
No matter how you slice it, sampires are ridiculously overpowered and mindless to build/play.
Its a long running joke that they can solo anything.
Wake up and smell the coffee kid
Man get out, sampires are the only top-tier PVM build that ever gets hit on purpose. Mindless? I have no idea how an archer, thrower, mystic, or tamer ever even manages to die in PVM without going AFK first. What, do they just forget to heal and allow themselves to be slowly ground down by energy bolts and stuff?
I'm a sampire and as far as I'm concerned I deserve to rule over PVM like a god until someone else besides me has to worry about all the stupid massive melee damage they give to everything nowadays.
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On the contrary.
I worry 95% DCI will create an de facto god-mode in PvM.
I said I was worried it will hurt PvM itself, as an activity.
Your interpretation of my point, however, is creative in a childish sort of way.
-Galen's player
Archers die because of damage reflect, monsters that suck in archers, monsters that catch up to you quickly thus making you have a choice between the chance for death or doing damage, or due to other monsters in the same area (other than the target).
Same for Throwers.
Tamers die due to area effects (standing close trying to heal), target-switching AI, damage reflects (for those tamers who also do damage of their own accord), other monsters in the same area.
Mystics due for similar reasons to Tamers.
I'm not saying those templates aren't far more advantaged than they let on. But to say they can't die or run no actual risk of dying or the like falls into the hurtful exaggeration category.
Someone could point out not uncommon circumstances that do lead to deaths for those templates, as I have just done, then dismiss your overall point on that basis and not necessarily be incorrect.
-Galen's player
Your statement isn't 100% waterproof, since you didn't specifiy a number system.
On the other hand, even a half-assed programmer would suspect it to be binary
We would hope so. It has been one very long time since I had to write a program in 8 bit code and no compilers, LOLYour statement isn't 100% waterproof, since you didn't specifiy a number system.
On the other hand, even a half-assed programmer would suspect it to be binary
The character I have who is likely to switch to non-medable armor has really sucked lately. I keep thinking "well, clearly, they have changed something on Production Shards already!"
*chuckles*
-Galen's player
PS: Yes I'm aware that this is beyond unlikely to have occurred. I was merely joking.
*chuckles*
-Galen's player
PS: Yes I'm aware that this is beyond unlikely to have occurred. I was merely joking.
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Here's where I feel like I stand after reading the to-date publish notes, and some time to sit and ponder (note that these opinions are mine alone, and are as they affect my own play style). Also, I have not had the opportunity to test all the changes on TC yet (some aren't even available in my understanding):
The Good
Bad Not quite there yet...
The Good
- Double Strike(\Shot) has the increased HCI on the second strike (and can go over the HCI cap).
- Stamina loss is lessened on the non-medable armor. This is a step in the right direction of making non-medable armor more viable. I haven't tested this yet, but I am hoping it is moderately-to-very noticeable. Leaving leather at as-is and going from there seems like a good system.
- [Edit 1] (Forgot to add) Human Racial ability Tough - this also helps the armor revamp, as humans are unable to wear woodland (the only other popular armor). Very nice to see some love go to humans. How about giving them 75 max physical resist, as well?
- Damage increases to axes - is it enough? While not yet testing the changes, it seems that 2H weps could use some more damage, yet, or maybe swing a bit faster. Also, I have tried Lumberjacking on a swordsman in the past. Not sure I ever noticed enough damage increase (30%? are we sure about that?).
- The LMC on non-medable armor. If it's stackable (meaning, if I imbue LMC 8% on plate arms, it actually means that piece has 9%), I guess it's...serviceable? But I still would like a more visible system. Making a suit of Mace & Shields, with 5 chain/plate pieces and saying "well, I will imbue 35% LMC, because, supposedly, I am getting the other 5% in the background?" is
confusingnot ideal. I really would like something more along the lines of increased imbuing caps or increased base resists. The latter option (increased base resists), would have an indirect imbuing impact, as well (less weight in resists, more weight in other properties - say...LMC!?).
- Refinement/DCI cap changes - so confusing, right now. I read a post by Bleak stating something about how if you don't use armor refinement, you won't notice a difference. At this point, I think I am leaning towards that, until someone gets a good understanding of it and explains it to the rest of us...IMHO, I gather that the effective cap is still 45, and the HLD cap is increased from 70 to 95, but everyone seems to think differently on this one...
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Once again - too much complexity.
I wish the devs would state their reasons behind the changes.
I think we are all guessing they are :
1 - To make weapons more evenly used instead of everyone running one of a handful of weapons
2 - To make people wear something other than leather armor
You could accomplish these easier. As it is - you are failing on #1 and #2 has gotten too complex again.
Here is one way to achieve these goals:
1 - Give all weapons either AI,Whirlwind,Infecting, Disarm or Dismount as one of their specials.
2 - Make all armor medable and make leather 100 durability max, studded/bone, ring 150, chain/dragon 200 and plate 250.
Done.
The whole 'speed/dmg' changes in weapons are nonsense. People are not avoiding weapons b/c they need 2 more pts of damage - people use them for the specials. AI is the most overpowered special so you see the most people using it. Don't try to nerf if otherwise it will be nearly impossible to kill a player with a weapon.
With armor getting even more complicated - its going to be even tougher to ever run an armor vendor. As it is its already too hard trying to figure out what mods a random person will want on their leather armor. Change it further and you need to guess the mods and if they will want leather/bone/studded/ring/chain/plate? No thank you. Its hard enough as it is for a crafter - don't make it worse.
I wish the devs would state their reasons behind the changes.
I think we are all guessing they are :
1 - To make weapons more evenly used instead of everyone running one of a handful of weapons
2 - To make people wear something other than leather armor
You could accomplish these easier. As it is - you are failing on #1 and #2 has gotten too complex again.
Here is one way to achieve these goals:
1 - Give all weapons either AI,Whirlwind,Infecting, Disarm or Dismount as one of their specials.
2 - Make all armor medable and make leather 100 durability max, studded/bone, ring 150, chain/dragon 200 and plate 250.
Done.
The whole 'speed/dmg' changes in weapons are nonsense. People are not avoiding weapons b/c they need 2 more pts of damage - people use them for the specials. AI is the most overpowered special so you see the most people using it. Don't try to nerf if otherwise it will be nearly impossible to kill a player with a weapon.
With armor getting even more complicated - its going to be even tougher to ever run an armor vendor. As it is its already too hard trying to figure out what mods a random person will want on their leather armor. Change it further and you need to guess the mods and if they will want leather/bone/studded/ring/chain/plate? No thank you. Its hard enough as it is for a crafter - don't make it worse.
One thing to keep in mind too is that you cannot make full suits out of some of the armor - Ring only has 4 pieces, chain 3 and studded/bone has 5. So, if you get special mods for these you will be able to get 6 of the mods for plate but only 3 for chain etc. I never understood why all armor suits don't have 6 pieces.
Ah, but that still leaves all the slow and/or two-handed weapons hopeless. They do need to rebalance speed and damage, but they need to realize that any weapon with a base speed slower than 3.5 is garbage and that adding 2 base damage in compensation is laughable.
I do like the idea of giving every weapon one of the "good" specials and spreading the "bad" ones around as secondaries.
So now every person in UO wears plate.
But all metal has the same bonus? So a combined suit of chain/plate or ringmail/chain/plate will all have the same basis for mods.
The suit I made on TC1 was chainmail coif, body, legs, ringmail gloves, sleeves, plate gorget. To see the suit without the rest of the vid start it at 4.50
http://www.twitch.tv/petra_fyde/c/1896714
My test was dismissed as irrelevant because I didn't fight uber mobs - but I chose a situation I'd been in many times where I could compare with my current live shard suit. Obviously being a largely incompetent player who doesn't spend billions on a suit, and doesn't have billions in the first place, my testing is only relevant to people who play the way I do. From my point of view, the suit I had on test was superior to the suit I have on Europa.
I have absolutely no understanding of the modified changes, I guess I'll just do what I usually do, go with best guess and hope. Throw shed loads of figures and equations at me and my eyes just glaze over.
I can't get that website to work and don't know why you don't just use YouTube, but if I recall correctly you went out and whacked daemons. I can kill daemons whilst literally buck naked, nothing at all equipped except for a weapon. It's just plain not a very instructive example.
You may be able to do that. I can't.
As I said, my testing is only relevant to people who play the way I do. You don't.
I'm a mediocre player who forgets to uses spells and specials most of the time and I don't have a 'sampire'.
On a very personal level I feel that necromancy and chivalry are complete opposites and shouldn't be possible on the same template. Because I feel that way about it, I don't have one. I accept that very few people share that view, so just about everyone else does have one.
I craft my own suits using items I can get for myself and have never had a bank balance that even approached 100 mil.
IF you play at that level and want your warrior to wear armour that is more appropriate in appearance, this publish will help you do that.
As you play on a higher level feel free to totally ignore my opinions. They're not relevant to the way you play.
As I said, my testing is only relevant to people who play the way I do. You don't.
I'm a mediocre player who forgets to uses spells and specials most of the time and I don't have a 'sampire'.
On a very personal level I feel that necromancy and chivalry are complete opposites and shouldn't be possible on the same template. Because I feel that way about it, I don't have one. I accept that very few people share that view, so just about everyone else does have one.
I craft my own suits using items I can get for myself and have never had a bank balance that even approached 100 mil.
IF you play at that level and want your warrior to wear armour that is more appropriate in appearance, this publish will help you do that.
As you play on a higher level feel free to totally ignore my opinions. They're not relevant to the way you play.
I think, as stated above, the problem here is that now everyone is running around in plate (or woodland for the extra mods), and you didn't really fix the issue of "everyone uses only one type of armor!".
At this point, I don't see the Devs changing all armor to be medable (in which case, all other armor revamp goes "poof"), therefore...
My idea for armor revamp
In addition to the stamina loss update (again, a good start)...
I would like to see a +1 to all base resists across the board for plate, chain, ring, studded, and bone. (i.e. Platemail now runs 6/4/3/4/3). This would leave leather, leaf, and cloth armors (all medable) at 15 total base resists (no change); plate, chain, ring, and hide at 20 total base resists; and studded and bone at 21 total base resists. Simple. Clean. Elegant. (Make similar updates to newly dropped artifacts as well - which NEED to be imbuable!)
Along these lines, the resists scaling changes for imbuing. So now, platemail can be imbued to a maximum of 21/19/18/19/18, which, if you don't imbue to the max (since the armor gets you closer to all 70's from the base resists increases), you have more imbuing points to spend in other properties (like the additional LMC that they are proposing to hide in the background of the suit).
[Edit - also would increase Dragon armor (i.e. 4/4/4/4/4, 20 total base resist).]
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Eh I donlt think they need to redesign the whole thing. I would argue in this second one there has been some good changes. But yeah I am hoping that when this does get on TC1 we will see additional changes. I am not expecting the whole publish to be scraped though.
My bet is yes, or else they'd have put it on TC by now.
My fear for that is: What if they go back to the drawing board and over-reach again?
Hopefully they will keep the Stamina Damage absorption thing...I've really come to like that.
-Galen's player
Not true - plate will provide more max durability but its more expensive to make (ingot cost vs leather cost). Some people will still choose lighter, less costly and less str required suits. Remember plate can require 95 str to wear (plate tunic) which is a problem when cursed.
I do not think you will find the cost of ingots to be a significant obstacle for any player who cares enough, and certainly not enough of an obstacle to perform a balancing function, which is what I think your argument requires it to do.
It will never be literally true that everyone will wear plate, but keep in mind: It's not literally true now that everyone wears leather, and it's near-universally agreed that there's something of an imbalance problem now.
-Galen's player
Please.
For comparison sake - lets assume cloth = leather since essentially the same thing.
Atlantic Luna Bank Informal Survey from 2 seconds ago.....
17 Players
1 In ringmail (newby gear for new character)
2 Wearing no armor - only robe
1 In woodland armor (sampire likely)
1 Wearing some visible plate mail
12 players wearing leather armor visible (some with things like pendant of magi etc as part of suit)
UO is Leather Armor for all save Woodland armor for Sampires. Anything else is junk char (new char, gift gatherer) or role player/non fighting.
And in terms of cost to make the armor....
Leather is cheaper due to easier to get runics, leather is cheaper and easier to make ex etc.
I'm not saying it is insurmountable but it IS a barrier. It is much easier to get Spined kits to use for reforging than copper hammers. Plus, again, the cost of ingots for val and verite is more expensive than killing 2 dragons to make a suit of armor out of barbed. And don't forget about 95 str required to wear plate AFTER curse.
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In context, if you look at the post of your own that I was responding to, it was fairly clear that we were both addressing the possibility that Plate Armor could have both a higher Imbuing capacity and be med-able.
Frankly I don't see how you could have mistaken the discussion for anything else, given the present context, which is a thread on the upcoming Publish and in a post chain that's explicitly about the future of armor in general and about that specific proposal in particular.
-Galen's player
Yeah I think you are right that if they were not making any additional changes it would be up by now. Though it is possible they ran into some major bug or something. Like you I do hope they donlt go back to the drawing board and end up going overboard again. I am interested to what possible changes have been made. Especially I think since there have been quite a few different opinions on what should be done. Of course I think we can all agree that the HLD/DCI changes are bad so hopefully they ditched those! I am hoping they keep the stamina changes I agree those seem good. I am curious though to see actually what light stamina protection and heavy stamina will mean.
LOL ingot cost. Yeah lemme just throw my millions worth of imbuing ingredients onto a suit with less than half the durability so I can skip out on buying some ingots.
It won't, you would end up with a character that rarely gets hit by melee attacks, but when you do get hit, you would take more damage.
Physical attacks can already miss.
Magic attacks cannot miss.
Spells already have higher base damage then most melee attacks currently in-game.
Increasing your resistance cap is of greater use, unless you avoid everything that casts spells (PvM)
If you fight both spell-casters and heavy melee/ranged hitters, you would probably be better off not using an armor refinement.
it's just my assumption, considering we can't actually test it yet...
but I'll wager even after testing, I'd be right.I hope the resist penalty will be more meaningful than I think it is, relative to 95% DCI.It won't, you would end up with a character that rarely gets hit by melee attacks, but when you do get hit, you would take more damage.
Physical attacks can already miss.
Magic attacks cannot miss.
Spells already have higher base damage then most melee attacks currently in-game.
Increasing your resistance cap is of greater use, unless you avoid everything that casts spells (PvM)
If you fight both spell-casters and heavy melee/ranged hitters, you would probably be better off not using an armor refinement.
it's just my assumption, considering we can't actually test it yet...
I actually will not be using Refinement for this purpose, I'd also rather have the resists.
Of course I really hope they just remove that because the math could get kinda crazy, deciding how much you need to stack before it starts working against you.
-Galen's player
Yeah while I hope they just scrap the dci part of the refinement I am curious to know just how low the resist cap would be to get a cap of 95% dci.
My gut says there's a decent chance that Publish 81 ends up with just some "advanced tinkering" stuff or whatever, and that this combat revamp gets pushed into the "we'd like to do this someday blah blah will never happen" category. Maybe not 50/50 odds, but at least 70/30.
Yeah I hope not but I agree there is a possiblity. I think they are mostly there with armor at least "part 1" of the revamp. So hopefully they donlt just ditch all their work on that. Weapons still need a lot of work but there has been a lot of player feedback on that so hopefully they come up with something. Refinements are one thing I do kinda hope they leave for another patch. But they might have come up with a way to fix those. We will see hopefully in the next couple of days!
What are you talking about?
The revised version is a huge improvement and very workable.
No offense bud but you have been mindlessly ranting about every tiny detail since the first second the original revamp was announced. You will obviously never be satisfied until the revamp is remade to your personal specs and retitled 'Klomps personal publish 81'
Its good to know that we have knowledgable players like yourself selflessly supporting the game to help diversify it and make it grow.
I'm thinking the opposite....They hold off advanced tinkering, give heavy armor the stamina absorption, and like one other thing.
I'm still very surprised to see anyone defending the weird max DCI thing. Sure it isn't game-breaking but it creates an awfully weird dynamic where sometimes more DCI is better and sometimes it's actually worse, and that' just too much. That some insist on calling it "workable" bewilders me. I guess it's not unworkable in the sense of not immediately breaking the game the way the first round of Stamina changes would! But it's still at once over-reaching and counter-intuitive. And to me that stretches any definition of "workable" past the point of being meaningful.
Not sure how they will handle weapons. However can we pretty much all agree that if they increased the base damage of the least-used 2-handed weapons that'll at least help? Not enough to put them in wide use, but help some. So if they just do that and then leave Force of Nature off of the war mace and remove other counter-intuitive things like that, perhaps it'll at least help.
Remember that some 2-handers, for example the Double Axe and Ornate Axe, really don't need a boost. The Double Axe is in wide use by some Sampires, the Ornate Axe's star has fallen but is still in use. The Halbred is effectively not used at all. (Note that effectively not used at all is different from literally not used at all.) Same with the Bardiche. The Rune Blades are in moderate use. So it's not all 2-handers that are hurting.
-Galen's player
Oh shut up Goldberg. This has been the worst-received publish I can even remember, and I've been listening to you cry about nerfs for weeks now. The only difference is, I'm willing to complain about things that suck even if they don't nerf me personally.
You, you're just another robot here going "I've been playing Paper for ten years, nerf scissors. Rock is fine as it is."
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Klomp...based on all your posts in this thread you need a hobby, just sayin
Complain? Is that what you call what you did in the original pub post?
Kinda funny as at least a half dozen people in that post politely asked you to stop continually ranting about the same thing. You did nothing in that post except call the entire dev team idiots about 20 times.
I am pretty sure you also threatened to quit more then once no?
This was your response to me pointing out how mindless and easy sampires are to play.
I missed it the first time around. It completely explains your lack of constructive input on the new pub. Now I understand why you simply just resorted to ranting at the devs.
You honestly believe that playing a sampire takes any skill at all. There is our disconnect my friend
And to think, I thought you were just being sarcastic at first. Too funny.
Oh yeah? Link them or admit you're lying, wiseass, because I farmed something like 50+ likes in that thread. Even from you. LOL.
The worst publish, is still Publish 46. hopefully we would never get something worse than that.
However, if this publish doesn't get to TC1 soon, we won't have enough time to test anything before it's rushed to all shards...
Also, quick, tell me the PVM template that takes more skill than a sampire. A real template too, not some gimp crap that's "difficult" because it sucks. I'm waiting. This should be hilarious.
Any siege char template
The "Look out, you might actually die!" PVM rankings basically go like this.
1) Sampire: Monsters actually get to, gasp, hit you. Your best source of healing requires you to be in position to receive maximum damage, meaning you sometimes have only a second or two to determine whether you should break away from melee and heal up via secondary methods, or stay in the pocket and hope the RNG doesn't screw you into a whiff-whiff-whiff death.
2) Archers/Throwers: At least you have to stay in motion in order to avoid the big melee hits. If the monster is fast and you don't have resist, it might even get to hit you with something other than a spell now and then.
3) Tamers: You're not even taking damage unless you're getting swamped or some sort of gimmick is in play, and spamming heals on a dragon isn't exactly complicated. Then again, at least you're obligated to give a crap about the positioning and survival of your big awkward pet as it plods along wanting to chase everything it sees.
4) Mystic/Mages: Summon a Colossus, go invisible, then either pop out and throw flamestrikes or just sit there quietly waiting to make another Colossus. At least the tamer has to spam heals. I don't really know how it could get any easier.
1) Sampire: Monsters actually get to, gasp, hit you. Your best source of healing requires you to be in position to receive maximum damage, meaning you sometimes have only a second or two to determine whether you should break away from melee and heal up via secondary methods, or stay in the pocket and hope the RNG doesn't screw you into a whiff-whiff-whiff death.
2) Archers/Throwers: At least you have to stay in motion in order to avoid the big melee hits. If the monster is fast and you don't have resist, it might even get to hit you with something other than a spell now and then.
3) Tamers: You're not even taking damage unless you're getting swamped or some sort of gimmick is in play, and spamming heals on a dragon isn't exactly complicated. Then again, at least you're obligated to give a crap about the positioning and survival of your big awkward pet as it plods along wanting to chase everything it sees.
4) Mystic/Mages: Summon a Colossus, go invisible, then either pop out and throw flamestrikes or just sit there quietly waiting to make another Colossus. At least the tamer has to spam heals. I don't really know how it could get any easier.
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Uhhh, no offense bud but every pvm template you just posted could be played with 100% effectiveness wearing mittens on a 12 year old laptop. Whats your point?
Do you honestly think that anyone with any pvp experience at all thinks playing a pvm sampire is in any way difficult or dangerous?
Give it up my friend
I love to play my sampy in the hopes of getting nice pvp jewels and splinter weps but I am not deluding myself that it is in any way exciting or difficult. It is what it is. Mindless farming. More power to ya
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