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The One and Only Pre-UOR Thread! Update -- 3 Polls of Results

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M

Mother May I

Guest
Wow, hasn't been one of these threads in a while.

Either way, here are my thoughts..
1. Firstly, it ammuses me that Mod's and EA employees alike are saying that the original ruling to auto-lock threads of this type were due to them popping up every day. Does not that tell you something about the popularity such a shard would have?
2. If there has ever been a good time to release a Pre:AoS (note: I dont care if its pre UOR, UOR, T2A or whatever.. Just Pre:AoS), its now.. *Cough* has died completely, *cough* and *cough* are on their very last legs.
3. In my opinion, the further you go back in UO history the more likely you are to alienate X amount of people. However, lots of people that didn't really like Powerscrolls but quit because of AoS would still come back to a T2A shard and so on. I think the best way for this shard's ruleset to be created would be a mix-and-match from the various expansions over time.

I sincerely believe that a Pre:AoS server would be one of the best financial-minded moves EA could do at the moment. Hell, even running 2 - Europe + America would still bring in the money, and (if you care anymore) - bring your faithful subscribers a whole lot of fun again.
 
B

bbr

Guest
i wonder how many people would "actually" use a pre ren server though...
aside that it would be hard for the clients to support,, but... not impossible.

maybe they should have made origin ren instead... dont see why we needed another server in the first place tho... go on spread the community even further..
 
P

portscan

Guest
JCtheBuilder, I honor thee!

<center>
</center>

Remember when Coca-Cola invested millions of dollars into designing and marketing a new sweeter New Coke, to try to compete with the sweeter sugary Pepsi which was winning taste tests with younger consumers?

Total flop. Nobody liked it and nobody bought it. Consumers were used to the original coke and prefered it. Eventually Coca-Cola was forced to bring back their old recipe and label it Classic Coke. If you are enjoying a Coke today, it is likely Coca-Cola Classic.

The debate over pre-UOR is the same type of deal. EA saw Everquest doing really well and tried to copy it and make Uo sweeter, even though UO was already doing very well itself. In the process they confused everybody, belittled the efforts of their veteran players and split the community. All-in-all, it just has not been a good thing. Classic UO is way overdue and it's probably too late.

But, its good to see that at least players are free to discuss it.
 
P

portscan

Guest
I agree with Chamfort, the advantages highly outweigh the dissadvantages of a pure Pre-UOR game. I would prefer to keep it simple and just ask for an exact duplicate. I loved that game!

<blockquote><hr>

Now that the ban has been lifted, let the discussions begin.

I would just be happy with a shard that was exactly like it was back in '97. I might even go as faar as say that I would love to have the same graphics as well from back then. You all remember the old paperdoll graphics from '97 right? Give me it all back.....noto system, skill atrophy, housing rules, etc.


Chamfort-(DoC) Great Lakes

[/ QUOTE ]
 
Z

Zanth

Guest
I agree this would be a good idea but ... Its like a gold sink idea on a normal production shard ... The dev team just wont do it .. Kinda a shame.
 
G

Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>


This is not a "back-up" of the code from 5 years ago. There were bugs fixed since then, and additions that aren't showstopper that you can't just wipe all. So we must to say what.
Example: I would like to keep bonzais, but what I don't want to see again is tamers with several dragons (pre pub 16).
Or: I want no customizable house, all public and lockable by keys (maybe with [suggestion] in order not to be scammed too easily), but I don't want to see the "wanted system" when reds were killing themselves between friends to get the money.


[/ QUOTE ]
Of course there probably isn't a backup from way back when, but it shouldn't be all that difficult to take a current shard and modify it to remove all the facets, BOD system, and champion spawns. It is debatable whether combat moves, house customization, and the four new skills (Necromancy, Chivalry, Ninjitsu, and Bushido) should remain. But some of the newer stuff should remain such as skill/stat locks, plant growing, new craftables, etc. because it really enhances the game without changing it.

As I said before, just put up a "test center" with a couple changes and see how many people try it out and whether a full time shard should be created.
 
G

Guest

Guest
As Ive already said.... a List of what exactly a Pre-UOR world would contain needs to be done.... one for any of the P's being pointed to as not everyone may remember what it was.

Two things that come to mind with pre uor..... no rune books... dont believe anyone would care to return to that...

House keys... can only lock the door by clicking on the key then the door... lose the key and lose the house... aka get stupid and die with the house key on ya with a rune to your house on you... say bye bye to the house and its contents...

No party system...

EVs and Blade spirits targeting the caster or anynne else near...

Before this can go anywhere... a list of what Pre UOR contained and its weirdness and then for what ever P's your looking at.....

And a new phrase/name needs to be coined instead of the misleading "PRE-UOR".... put anything in it that came well after would be making it appear to be a Panzy version.... so a fitting name is a very important aspect of this project...

Once you have a list/s of the features and a new name for the shard/s

Down the road you will need to put forth several ways for EA to implement said shard/s in the most economical way and figure out how to convince them that this new shard/s would not be a wast of cash... that it would not be just another Seige/Mugen or Felucca ....


Once the ground work is down.. aka features, mechanics and then once the vote of players wishing to participate on such a shard... the letter writing campaine starts..... the emails, phone calls.... convince EA by NUMBERS and then dang sure keep the word.... follow thru with the commitment to such a shard.....

*shrugs*
 
G

Guest

Guest
Some want UO:R and some want pub 15. Why not forget this names and find out what we really want that shard to be.

Here is what I would like:

1. Only one facet, lets take the Trammel facet and T2A with no factions and no champ spawn but with PvP ruleset.

2. No item insurance but item will bond when you use them so no other would have any use for your armor and weapon, they can't use it.

3. Town vendors:
a) They will not buy bonded items unless the item is bonded to you.
b) They will not sell resources, not even regs
c) They will sell tools and crappy armor and weapons but they take a high price for it, so it will be cheaper to buy from a newbie crafter.

4. Items, I fear it won't be easy to make EA go back to pre AoS items. The AoS items and the arties are not all bad, they just need to be easier to get.
a) Let Arties drop as monster loot/stealables on this single facet.
b) Let crafters have a chance for making magic items just like with the spellbooks. Forget about runic tools.
c) Metal armor need a resist increase but less chances for being mage armor, if a player want metal armor, he should choose focus.

5. Make thieves work like pre UO:R.

6. Murders:
a) Access to towns/moongates
b) No stat loss but items can't bond to a murderer, so all who loot them can use them.
c) Murderers can't recall, only gate.
d) Murders can't deal with town vendors

7. Combat:
I think the combat rules we have now is ok, it would be impossible to go back to old ones without going back to old items. I would like to see a few changes.
a) Bards need be able to proveke monsters on players and able to peace players like they was in old days.
b) Tamers, I don't think bonding is the problem here. A tamer with a pet should not be more powerful in PvP or PvM than other templates. In old days, pet could not bond but they was more easy to tame and it was easier to get a new pet. Maybe limit the power of pets and keep bonding.

8. Old house rules (No lock downs / secures?)
I think lockdown of some items are ok but not all should be secure. I also think there should be a limit in size of the houses.

a) No Castles/Keeps/Towers/Large mable, there need to be room for all.
b) Max 14x14 customizing houses
c) Max 250 lockdowns for large houses.
d) An anyone secure only take up one lockdown, even if 125 items in it. It can be locked if it have a key, but a lockpicker will be able to unlock it. It can be trapped too.
f) Teleporters will always be anyone.
g) Doors can be secures as we can now but there will only be public houses.
h) When standing on a doorstep or inside a house you are friended too or a house with any guild secures(doors/boxes) for your guild, you will always be able to track/detect hidden players.

If you success getting in the house and can get in the anyone secures (can be locked or trapped), you can loot but you may need to be able to gate if you want someone to help you carry the loot, because if the doors are secure, you can't open them but as long you are in the house and not get kicked or banned, you can make gates to let your friends in. When you have to logout or get kick you will need to sneak in again when someone open the door. It won't be so easy as in the past but still possible to loot a house if the owner do have more store than he have free lockdowns.

9) Rune books will exist but won't be blessed.

10) If you take damage, or are aggressore, a mount will never run faster than a player with a good con can walk. If with full heal and in peace a mount will run faster, so it will still be useful for traveling and for escape if not yet attacked.

11) Old style archery?
I think archery as we have it now without the pub 32 nerf is fine except we need some one hands bows so we can drink potions. Bowers need to be able to craft magic bows.

12) Talk while hidden :p becouse its fun
I agree, but make the name yellow so the hidden player can't be attacked with casting/attacking the name/heal bar

13) (And ofcourse Colored armour of Npcs :D)?
Make it as BOD rewards, just like tailors do have the sandales. Thr problem with this colored armors are they are not very useful, when their resists are like non exeptionel armor so they would need to get more resist and some magic effects too.

14) (Dreadlords / Great lords !)?
It's not that easy, new skills are effected of out Fame/Karma system but I think the lose of fame up on dead is to heavy, special in PvP. Maybe limit it to some fame lose from PvP, this way it would be easier to stay Glorius Lord or Dread Lord.
Dread Lord should not be possitive for a blue player. A blue player should max be able to get -3 in Karma and a red should be able to get +3 Karma.
If you are red: Killing blue should make you lose some Karma and gain some Fame.
If you are red: Killing red should not changes your Karma but still gain you a little fame.
If you are blue: Killing blue should make you lose alot Karma and lose some Fame.
If you are blue: Killing red should gain you some Karma and gain some Fame.

If the one who die have no fame, then no fame gain to the winner.

15) The spawn should be fun, maybe like the tomarties spawn with small spawns of monsters from all facets

This was how I think a shard could be fun and still close to what we have now = easy to make
 
N

Nisse

Guest
I realy like to se a pre ren shard.

no powerscrolls
no items
magicresist back as it ment to be
Theifs can work again

get back to where you could fight a guild member who was gm to train your self up to gm.
 

Hemisphere

Always Present
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Removing all facets but Felucca is absolute, yet keeping special moves is debateable? I'd argue that it's very much the other way round. Keeping special moves would take away from the pre-AoS/UO:R feel, but keeping all the new facets shouldn't be a real problem.

What could work rather well with facets would be to withhold them at first, launching the shard with Britannia only, and add them in as nescessary. If housing becomes overcrowded, open up Malas, if dungeons become too crowded, launch Ilshenar. Tokuno could possibly be used as a map to run events on, or opened up at some point if nescessary.
 
S

Seetee

Guest
Pre-UOR is what UO really means, I agree on this one.

In all honesty, though, I don't see the creation of one, two or five Pre-UOR shards to be a solution to anything.
What this will do is the same pseudo-thing that we have with Felucca and Siege nowadays.

They are there, but only a fraction of UO's population actually go there.
Why? For the vast majority the reason is that they never experienced what it meant to be in a Pre-UOR ruleset.
Most either don't know any better or have taught themselves to believe that it was all chaos and brutality all around. Which is not true, at all.
But until people come to see this (which I sadly don't think to be very likely to happen...), no attempt to work on anything Pre-UOR will help. :/
 

Surgeries

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
RTL For Convenience

The ONLY qualm I would have with a Pre UO:R Shard, since I would not play it, would be the loss of resources for the current game that would need to be devoted to the new shard. MAYBE the shard would bring enough subscribers back to warrant the expense. Maybe.

A few questions for ALL of the Pre UO:R Fans out there, that I have yet to get answers to:

What persistent MMORPG HAS the kind of ruleset you seek in a Pre UO:R Shard?

Has any persistent MMORPG AFTER UO offered this type of "free for all" PvP ruleset, and has any MMORPG been successful in offering it (i.e. are they still around)?

IF this type of ruleset is so immensely popular, why doesn't any of the 1 Mill+ subscriber MMORPGs offer the "free for all" PvP Ruleset you seek?

Why are Player Run Shards held up as having 150K+ subscribers, as proof that people want this type of gameplay on a large scale, when Runescape beats their numbers? Both are "Free"...could this have bearing on why their numbers are so high?

Again, I personally wouldn't play such a shard, if it did get created, and perhaps it would be as huge as the proponents of the shard say it would be.

And to that I would ask, again, in earnest:

WHY hasn't ANY other persistent MMORPG offered this type of ruleset? Key word here being "Persistent"....
 
G

Guest

Guest
World of Warcraft.

On the pvp servers (which are more pvp servers then rp and pve) in the contested lands (everything after lvl 20) you are in a free-for-all pvp enviroment. No restrictions on lvls, items and abilities. Of course there are pve servers (where you set your pvp flag and rp servers which you have to manually flag pvp as well) The game has far more pvp servers that are high population then any other server type.

Has this worked? yes WoW is probably the most sucessful MMO released to this date.

The difference is that UO had no -pvp options back in the day. Everyone was killed on site, if you were not good at pvp you would be ganked. All modern games give you the ability to go +/-pvp and don't force feed it to you. Maybe if UO had these options on release it would be more of a sucessful game today.
 
S

Smaug82

Guest
Finally, this subject gets some notice, again.

yes, yes... please do this. Pre UOR... Please Please Please.

Just use the same codes we have now only write in the old rulesets. Basically it is siege with guards and npc vendors that buy goods... not that hard to do.

I vote yay.

Smaug82
 

Surgeries

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
<blockquote><hr>

World of Warcraft.

On the pvp servers (which are more pvp servers then rp and pve) in the contested lands (everything after lvl 20) you are in a free-for-all pvp enviroment. No restrictions on lvls, items and abilities.

[/ QUOTE ]
So...they offer dry looting? Also..."In Contested Lands" isn't "Everywhere".

Can you attack your guildmate whenever you want? Nope...you cannot.

Again...WoW, Lineage II, etc. DO offer PvP.

They do NOT offer the "Free For All" PvP desired as in Pre UO:R Shard.
<blockquote><hr>

The difference is that UO had no -pvp options back in the day. Everyone was killed on site, if you were not good at pvp you would be ganked. All modern games give you the ability to go +/-pvp and don't force feed it to you. Maybe if UO had these options on release it would be more of a sucessful game today.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I am talking about. WoW is NOT Free for All. If UO was NOT Free for All, even as Fel is today (i.e. after level X no restrictions...before that there ARE restrictions), it would be able to, I believe, compete with the Big Boys.

As it is, WoW is very busy and Fel is not.

Should tell us all something, I would hope...
 
S

StainlessSteel

Guest
Would this pre-Ren shard replace Seige Perilous? Or, be in addition to it? (replacement may be hard due to the Asian "vet" shards).

What I remember from this time was this...

1) It was hard to raise skills. A GM smith, mage, or anything was well respected. My first GM was tactics which took at minimum a 100 hours of sparring with guildmates. It was a chatting time, but I rarely played the game as I trained my skills.

2) Everytime I went into a dungeon, I was attacked by a red (or more commonly a group of reds). Everytime I went mining, I was attacked by reds. Everytime I left town, I was attacked by reds. This was not fun in my estimation.

3) Reagents were very difficult to come by. I spent alot of time trying to gather resources rather than playing the game.

4) Reds were allowed in town. This isn't an issue if they can be killed by guards if they attack me.

5) Thieves were everywhere. In addition to constantly watching for reds, you had to watch for thieves.

6) Random boxes by the side of the road could lead to a very quick death.

7) My guild was close. But, the game was new, and we all depended on others' skills and knowledge. I think my guild now is as close - it just depends on the people in the guild.

8) If I didn't have my guild, then I would have quit because the game was not a fun escape from life. It was stressful enterprise where I had little choice but to deal with the greifers.

I think a pre-Ren shard should be opened on a trial basis. We know that they have a metric to know the hours played by each character (I think I would like to know how much time I have wasted on this game - maybe not...). Usage could be tracked over time to determine if a permanent shard would be viable. But, seeing all the posts over time doesn't mean that there is a high demand for such a shard. It just means that there have been many posts by an unknown number of people; it is kinda like the poll in the ideas den. It is too easy to stuff such a ballot.

There have been some valid points on both sides. But, it will not be determined until this idea is actually attempted. I think it will fail, but I know no more than the proponents. Alas, the proponents, like many other people, are afraid to address the shortcomings of their ideas. They are more interested in the additions in their minds. Unless both sides can discuss the positives and negatives of such a proposal, this thread is an exercise in futility.

Good luck!
 
N

Nisse

Guest
if a pre ren come i just do 1 icq and it will be around 30 people who comes direct.

The joke they use to name the testcenter once whit pre ren made a few frends to log in direct.
 
T

Thul

Guest
I'll be honest, I have a different perspective on this. I never played pre-uor, I started shortly after pub 16 or 17, I can't remember, and I didn't start PvP until AoS. That being said I am fascinated at the stories of Pre-UOR, and Would love a chance to play on that ruleset. I have no desire to play pre-uor the only way we can right now, which I can't talk about, so my only option is to hope EA makes a shard like this.

If there was a pre-uor shard, I would play it, and I would bet that it would bring people back.
 
M

MysteryWombat

Guest
I really liked the sense of accomplishment you felt when you GMed a skill in the pre-powerhour ruleset. It took me 6 months to GM inscription on my first character back in the 97-98 timeframe, and about 8 to GM magery. GM characters, especially multi-GM characters were pretty rare back then. PvP also seemed to be a lot more simple, and skills were more varied -- it was no uncommon to have an extra fighting skill or some cooking or crafting on your guy.

On the down side, there were a lot of bugs and sploits even back then. For a while the bane of my existence was the one that would let you see and attack hiding people -- the server would send the location of hidden people and the client would simply not show them. Someone came up with a splot to make the client show them, and I died several times to it. There were a variety of flagging bugs as well, most of which still seem to be in there.

All in all, if they created a pre-pub16 (Or earlier) server, I'd probably spend most of my time on it.
 
D

Deathjesters

Guest
Woooooooow! stratics let u make a thread about it


anyway.. EA aint just saying they cant make a pre:UOR shard..

tbh... none of the Dev team is from back then.. so none of em would know how it was :p


oh wait.. mabye fertbert was ...
and sunsword was THE man..loved by all
now more or less hated by all old players for screwing UO up so badly..
(he is the boss, so him to blame)
 
P

Pixie

Guest
I haven't read the whole thread, mostly because I've read all the arguments for and against before... most of them heavily based on particular assumptions.

I've found that most of the time that the one thing that people don't understand is that they have this ideal of what the game was -- YES, the game was better 4 years ago to a great number of players. UO has lost so many of these players, not only because the game has changed, but also because of how the game was run and the lack of actual discussion with the dedicated player community. If UO did develop a 'custom shard' with pre-XX rules, they would attract a lot of people back... the problem then becomes retaining these players, which brings me to my next point.

Players don't like a static world. They want interaction, they want quests, they want 'staff-run events', they want attention, they want bug fixes, and they want new content. None of that would change if a pre-XX shard were created today. There would be problems that need fixing, there would be new things that need to be implemented. There would need to be GMs that would need to be trained and available to handle standard player problems.

For those of you who say 'it's not possible' -- you're living in some fantasy world. Of course it's possible... even if they've lost all the source code up till yesterday, it's possible - it would just take longer. With software development, the standard way of looking at a project is that there are three 'concerns': cost, time, and quality... the addage is that you can have two of them but not three - e.g. you can have quick and cheap, but the quality will be lacking; you can have good and expensive, but it'll take a long time; you can have good and quick, but it'll cost exponentially more. My point here is that I don't think OSI is willing to invest the time or money into the project... mostly because the results aren't sure.

Now to EA I'll say that there is a ton of interest in the game that so many of us played years ago... people would love a place like this. I'm not a business man, so I'm not even going to attempt to make a business case for something like this... BUT a small team (3-4 devs) with the right motivation, good knowledge of UO in general, and a free hand to do what needs to be done, given one server could make this thing happen and spark a ton of interest.

If you look at the Player Run Shards out there, you'll see that the client still has the support for all the 'pre-aos' stuff. No client changes would really be needed... just the server. There are many problems with player run shards - most tend to be the administrators and developers of the shard and corruption (the same sort that has happened in the past even at OSI), but there's still the 'non-official' scare factor that keeps many people away.

Of course the hard part for my theoretical 'small team' would be deciding where to pinpoint the time in UO's history to start from... and then which of the newer 'features' to bring back... and how to go forward in development of the nonstatic world of UO without breaking all the aspects of UO that the players are attracted to like AOS+ seems to have done.

Still... it'd be a lot of work - but there are people that are motivated and talented enough to get it done.

--Pix.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Add my Vote. I am COMPLETELY for a "Pre-Ren" Shard. I, too, know of many players who would return for it.

As far as the landmasses are concerned. I would start with Felucca and T2A. If the Pre-Ren shard is as successful as I think it will be, then you can add Ilshenar, Malas, and Tokuno as needed under the same rules.

A lot of people see Pre-Ren as a time of lawlessness...anyone who is being honest knows that is only a piece of the pie.

I see it as a time when players truly interacted and worked together. There were communities that nothing today can compare to. It was a time when your success could not be bought, it had to be earned....not only through your skills....but through your interaction with players. You had to have allies to support yourself. It was truly an online world for you to immerse yourself in...

The current UO is no longer an online world. It is a game....and more and more, its a single player game where success is bought and sold on eBay. This is the wrong path in my eyes.
 
G

Guest

Guest
The number of threads popping up everyday does not equate to any popularity... it is fact that the number of players and non players that visit these forums daily do not equate to the actual player base of UO... But that does not mean thoughts and ideas posted on the stractic forums have no merit.... but to ever claim that these forum represent the entire UO playing population is pure and simple delusions...
 
I

imported_hotdogsrgross

Guest
It's hard to go completly back to pre UO:R

Ive grown quite used to the jewelry slots....but I guess I wouldnt miss those, seeing as jewelry wasnt worn cept for invis/tele items.

I would love to have ethys insta-mount...and speedcast! Real threat of thieves! REAL PVP. Duels! OMG! Mana conservation! No more 10 FS'es in a row...heh.

I'm all for a pre ren. Hell, even a pub 16 shard would work for me.
 
M

Mother May I

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

I see it as a time when players truly interacted and worked together. There were communities that nothing today can compare to. It was a time when your success could not be bought, it had to be earned....not only through your skills....but through your interaction with players. You had to have allies to support yourself. It was truly an online world for you to immerse yourself in...

The current UO is no longer an online world. It is a game....and more and more, its a single player game where success is bought and sold on eBay. This is the wrong path in my eyes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bang.. Hit the nail right on the head there, well done :D

Honestly, it is pure madness not to bring it back. Could we get some form of official word from EA on the issue? Even if its in the negative, I would love to know what reason you could possibly come up with to make it a bad idea.
 
S

Syncros

Guest
I dont think we need a pre-uor shard.
Pvpers are just another group of whiners. You have those that want when mages owned and then you have those that want the current skills (pally, samie, ninja etc...)

The best shard pvpers have currently is the test shards. Everyone there can pretty well play on even playing fields since they all can 120 their skills in a second of typing some words. Thats something current "pvpers" cant do on normal shards and why some dont goto test to "duel" when asked to because they like finding weaker classes to fight (tamers/bards etc..)

I for one wouldnt ever play on a pre-whatever shard. I like how the game does change even though the devs are ignorant when it comes to bugs not getting fixed after years of being ingame.


If they would push back the rules and take away that dumb cant enter house while agressor BS then it would be better.
 
D

Dodge

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

I dont think we need a pre-uor shard.
Pvpers are just another group of whiners. You have those that want when mages owned and then you have those that want the current skills (pally, samie, ninja etc...)

The best shard pvpers have currently is the test shards. Everyone there can pretty well play on even playing fields since they all can 120 their skills in a second of typing some words. Thats something current "pvpers" cant do on normal shards and why some dont goto test to "duel" when asked to because they like finding weaker classes to fight (tamers/bards etc..)

I for one wouldnt ever play on a pre-whatever shard. I like how the game does change even though the devs are ignorant when it comes to bugs not getting fixed after years of being ingame.


If they would push back the rules and take away that dumb cant enter house while agressor BS then it would be better.

[/ QUOTE ]


you sir dont know much

first mages did NOT own everyone Pre run , if you could afford to play a pure mage and had the skills then hell ya you would be a god but a wise poisoner or a dexxer could destroy you , it was not about your template so much as it was about your reflexes and skill!
 
G

Guest

Guest
From what I've seen, unhappy rants against changes in UO have been around since the creation of Trammel and Felucca and they'll probably always be around as long as UO continues to be the game that, let's face it, most of us would rather play than any other.
No one likes having their fave game changed for reasons beyond their control and they can get pretty emotional about it


That said; I think most of the complaints came after Age of Shadows (and I made plenty myself) but AoS like most of the publishes and expansions wasn't all bad. I like the damage system and I like being able to customise my house.
But I hated the redundancy of Arms Lore/Item ID to make way for Information Overload every time you clicked an item and I hated the warehouse monstrosities people tossed up (pun?) all over the land.

In my opinion, the worst changes were the ones that basically pandered to greedy materialistic eBay noobs. Neon, ten-a-penny artifacts, insurance, Reds given the run of the cities, and a whole load of other things.
But I know players who love those changes!

We definitely need a proper debate or at least a poll on what way a Pre-UOR Shard should be, before - inevitably in my opinion- OSI lose players to player run shards or WoW or even Real Life
 
D

DragonFar

Guest
Before WoW came out, Pre uo:R would have been the perfect server. I'd of been playing on it and would never have bought Warcraft.

However, that didn't happen, and now I have 2 level 60 characters and it's the best game I've ever played.

I would never, ever, come back to UO. Even if they offered me a free account and decked out characters, they lost me as a subscriber through lack of innitiation.

Those secret projects of Sunsword are the worst thing a game designer can do.
 
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Guest

Guest
So why are you here again?

If you don't play UO, and don't plan on coming back, your input is, quite frankly, irrelevant.
 
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DragonFar

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

You all remember the old paperdoll graphics from '97 right?

[/ QUOTE ]This is quite a hefty presumption


There's a limit to how far most players want to go back, really. Become too "hardcore old school" and you'll alienate a lot of people because they simply didn't play that long ago, and it would also be a lot harder for the devs to code.

I'd like to see something along the lines of pub15 but minus the Tram/Fel divide, and with just about every agreeable feature added since then, most of these "agreeable feature" are purely cosmetic and whimsical additions, as I was saying earlier, things like custom housing, gardening system, etc.

If a pre UO:R style shard is ever going to happen people will probably have to accept a few compromises. It'll probably never be exactly as we remembered it - The lack of a volunteer system wouldn't help - and I doubt they kept all the statistics from back then so it probably wouldn't all be spot on, and as I've said, there are some great features that could be carried across that would be very beneficial even to a pre UO:R ruleset.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pub 15 brought 1 hit insta kill random happening crushing blow war hammers. and 60 dmg mindblasts. No thanks, pre uo:r, the t2a edition is where it's at.
 
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Guest

Guest
I'm sorry, but Pre-Ren is not just about PvP....its much more than that...
 
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DragonFar

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

RTL For Convenience

The ONLY qualm I would have with a Pre UO:R Shard, since I would not play it, would be the loss of resources for the current game that would need to be devoted to the new shard. MAYBE the shard would bring enough subscribers back to warrant the expense. Maybe.

A few questions for ALL of the Pre UO:R Fans out there, that I have yet to get answers to:

What persistent MMORPG HAS the kind of ruleset you seek in a Pre UO:R Shard?

Has any persistent MMORPG AFTER UO offered this type of "free for all" PvP ruleset, and has any MMORPG been successful in offering it (i.e. are they still around)?

IF this type of ruleset is so immensely popular, why doesn't any of the 1 Mill+ subscriber MMORPGs offer the "free for all" PvP Ruleset you seek?

Why are Player Run Shards held up as having 150K+ subscribers, as proof that people want this type of gameplay on a large scale, when Runescape beats their numbers? Both are "Free"...could this have bearing on why their numbers are so high?

Again, I personally wouldn't play such a shard, if it did get created, and perhaps it would be as huge as the proponents of the shard say it would be.

And to that I would ask, again, in earnest:

WHY hasn't ANY other persistent MMORPG offered this type of ruleset? Key word here being "Persistent"....

[/ QUOTE ]

Ehh, Lineage has that exact pvp set, the largest online game in the world.
 
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DragonFar

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

I dont think we need a pre-uor shard.
Pvpers are just another group of whiners. You have those that want when mages owned and then you have those that want the current skills (pally, samie, ninja etc...)

The best shard pvpers have currently is the test shards. Everyone there can pretty well play on even playing fields since they all can 120 their skills in a second of typing some words. Thats something current "pvpers" cant do on normal shards and why some dont goto test to "duel" when asked to because they like finding weaker classes to fight (tamers/bards etc..)

I for one wouldnt ever play on a pre-whatever shard. I like how the game does change even though the devs are ignorant when it comes to bugs not getting fixed after years of being ingame.


If they would push back the rules and take away that dumb cant enter house while agressor BS then it would be better.

[/ QUOTE ]

ah, another one who thinks tank mages were the only template :(

Sorry but a med warrior with a q-staff could wipe the floor with a tank mage. Precast heal even when poisoned, whack whack whack whack, heal precast another whack whack.
 
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Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

World of Warcraft.

On the pvp servers (which are more pvp servers then rp and pve) in the contested lands (everything after lvl 20) you are in a free-for-all pvp enviroment. No restrictions on lvls, items and abilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

True but there is one mega diff, WOW do not have looting of player bodies. Dying in PvP will only cost you a little money to fix your armor and weapon if you don't want to run back to your body.

We also know, it's the risk for being looted, Trammel players hate most with PvP. They did go to Felucca with Pub 16 where they would lose nothing and get teleported to town.
 
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Guest

Guest
Actually MLG, if you'd played any of the previous Ultima games you'd know that in comparison, Ultima Ascension was a rotten malformed abortion of a game.

Look for a review of it written around the time of it's release and you'll see how badly received it was by Ultima fans who'd waited years for what should have been the finale to the greatest trilogy of trilogies. What they got instead was a pretty RPG dumbed down for a mostly young white American male demographic. Corporate market interests reduced it from being an 'Ultima' game (i.e: a game with history and depth) to being just another fantasy-quest-in-a-box released in time for the Christmas sales.
It was also so bugged it was literally unplayable on most PCs of the time and it's economy was flawed to the point of being completely pointless.

Sounds just like Ultima Online so far, right?


Luckily though, U9 was largely rescued by the hard work of some serious Ultima fans. Grandor Dragon, who wrote a dialogue patch to rewrite the very (very!) bad script Origin had written, and Novum Dragon who put together a patch to fix the economy.

You may have difficulty getting hold of those patches as their site is long gone but you can always try Google.
Or PM me and I'll send it over.
 
S

Spelunk

Guest
I've played on Great Lakes on &amp; off since late 1997. I've beta tested Fallen Age &amp; Shadowbane. I've also played Diablo I &amp; II, Warcraft, Starcraft, EQ, SWG &amp; WWII Online.

That being said, I'd move to a Pre-UO: R shard in a New York minute.

In terms of immersion, entertainment, excitement, realism, roleplay, community &amp; general playability. Today's UO doesn't hold a candle to Pre-UO: R. I could write all day &amp; then some explaining why. Even with all it's faults, Pre-UO: R remains the best MORPG ever created!
 
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Guest

Guest
Post #1, eh? Welcome to the boards and I agree with you completely.
 
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Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Pvpers are just another group of whiners. You have those that want when mages owned and then you have those that want the current skills (pally, samie, ninja etc...)


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe PvP'ers are whiners but there is alot of them out there and that could be money for EA :)

I just counted the servers in WOW Europa, I can't count the US ones when I have no access there.

<pre>
Server Type PvP PvE RP
English servers 28 17 2
Germans servers 21 16 4
French servers 10 4 2
All EU servers 59 37 8
</pre>

And the PvP servers are filled, but the RP is almost emty.
They started 7 new PvP servers and 1 PvE this week
 
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Guest

Guest
Maybe others already posted these, but they popped into my head right off.

=====

Housing decay in place that really worked! No auto-refresh. Then again, you were allowed more than one house per account too!

You were also required to have a key to enter a house (unless public) in your main pack - no "Set security" gump.

Starting gold was 100 not 1000. You needed to bust your hump to make cash.

No marties/tarties/arties. No Doom, Khaldun, Champ Spawns.

Crafters meant something ... scribes, T-hunters, smiths alll meant something because you WORKED to hit GM.

No power scrolls or stat scrolls. No added skill points per year of age. Your skills had a specific cap of 700. Period. Stats total 225. Period.
 
J

Jeddak

Guest
While I like the idea of a shard with an old ruleset I can't see how the masses will flock to it. And even if EA would spend the money (which I highly doubt) I can't see how or why large numbers of crafters, miners and new players would bother with it just to end up as easy targets for a bunch of kill crazy pk types. Until I hear a compelling reason for non pks to move to this new shard I feel it's doomed to fail (or at least not be profitable in the long run).
 
R

Ray

Guest
The optimal setup for a Pre-UO:R shard would be to replicate the setup from late 1999.
Some key features that I can remember:

- Runebooks were for rune libraries only, and were not blessed. This led to more community-oriented houses and libraries.

- Precasting and insta-hit (true insta-hit) were both in. They added layers of strategy and skill to PvP.

- GM crafted items were the standard. Vanq weapons were a little better, but they were easy to lose.

- Runegates did not open a menu when you stepped into one. They operated according to the cycles of the Brittanian moons. There was no runegate PvP before the change to a menu.

- No factions. If you wanted to town fight, you formed an O/C guild. O/C fights were really fun, and so were guild wars.

- Old school stat loss. If you wanted to PK, you had to pay the consequences. This allowed players leeway in dealing with blue healers and whatnot, while still curtailing rampant miner killing. More than 5 short term counts = stat loss.

- One facet. While obvious, this was a hugely positive feature in terms of player interaction. Everyone owning their own house is bad for community. Having to share a house with a few people or even a guild helps to build communities.

- Taming was powerful, but it was HARD to get pets because Destard/Ice/Tera Keep were really freaking dangerous places to go.

- Push-through. While somewhat annoying, this helped to make the UO PvE experience much more challenging and added an additional layer to PvP strategy.

- Powerhour optional. While this was technically a pre-UO:R system, a lot of people didn't like it. Either way, it's better than the current system. Heck, the old old system is better than the current system.
 
R

Ray

Guest
Forgot something:

Housing!
There were no custom houses. You had small houses, medium houses, keeps, and castles. None of this househider paradise crap we have now. While there may be a few good looking designs out there, 9/10 of all custom houses are a complete eyesore.
Also, the only home security you had were lockdowns, secure, and "I ban thee." You could make your house private, and then Texas Law applied.

And another thing:
No neon clothing, armor, or weapons!
You customized yourself by dying your clothes and wearing them over your armor. Ice White was only seen on monsters in the Ice Dungeon. Blaze and crap were non-existant.

I'm getting all teary-eyed just thinking about an official Pre-UO:R shard :()
 

Surgeries

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
<blockquote><hr>

Ehh, Lineage has that exact pvp set, the largest online game in the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lineage has that exact PvP set? How about a link, so I don't just have to take your word for it, ehh?
 
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Guest

Guest
Regardless, this "Persistant" argument is irrelevant. We never got to see the end result of what would have happened if a Feluccan Ruleset were kept in-game. So we cannot, therefore, say with any certainty whether a Pre:UOR Shard would or would not work in the longrun.

We can only go by player support of such a project in determining whether it should be started or not. Saying that because Trammel was not a failure, does not mean that Felucca would be a failure. All we would have is rather unsupported assumptions of the possible success/failure of a Pre:UOR shard.
 

Surgeries

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
<blockquote><hr>

Regardless, this "Persistant" argument is irrelevant. We never got to see the end result of what would have happened if a Feluccan Ruleset were kept in-game. So we cannot, therefore, say with any certainty whether a Pre:UOR Shard would or would not work in the longrun.


[/ QUOTE ]
Nice try.

It was known that a Choice was imperative...that is why Trammel was introduced, as Fel was emptying as people went to play the "New" MMORPG that offered nothing close to UO's ruleset...in fact...there was no PvP...at all...in EQ!!

EQ Kicked UO's arse within 6 months of launch, and has never looked back.

Argue that.
<blockquote><hr>

We can only go by player support of such a project in determining whether it should be started or not.

[/ QUOTE ]
Right. Not your opinion...not mine...the Player Base.

But the Player Base ALREADY votes with their mouse, and the results speak for themselves.

MOST people do NOT care for anything like even today's Fel, much less a place where you lose skills when you die...can lose your whole house, and everything in it...et al.
Some will, indeed. As long as YOU pay for the R&amp;D, and the maintenance on that shard, I say go for it.

I wouldn't want my subscription to pay for any such nonsense. It didn't work before, and it would definitely NOT be the big draw you say it will be.

Otherwise, SOMEONE ...ANYONE would be trying to get people signed up already to make all the money that those people are willing to spend for such an experience. But, the fact remains, that NO persistent MMORPG has been able to do this, INCLUDING UO. As it stands, the ONLY people that enjoy this type of gameplay, and find it on Player Run Shards, pay zero to play. No harm - No Foul. I find that HIGHLY relevant, if you catch my drift

<blockquote><hr>

Saying that because Trammel was not a failure, does not mean that Felucca would be a failure.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's already a failure in terms of Shard Population. Otherwise, there would be all kinds of "Here's what we can do to bring subscribers back to Trammel!!". Not the case. And that is not unsupported.
 
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Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>


- Runebooks were for rune libraries only, and were not blessed. This led to more community-oriented houses and libraries.


[/ QUOTE ]
Runebooks were only non-blessed for a very short period of time. Then after the next publish they mysteriously became newbiefied or blessed. But I agree, it would be nice if runebooks on a Pre-UOR shard were not blessed.

Just as Siege is a special UO ruleset designed for a more challenging gameplay to those who seek it, a Pre-UOR shard would be the best of the old days combined with the new. The same arguement could be applied to a Pre-UOR shard as is done for Siege, if you don't like it don't play there. WoW has basically set a precedent that having different types of servers is acceptable and beneficial. UO split rulesets into facets, WoW splits rulesets between shards. Now the people who want to go back to old UO can, lessening problems on other shards due to the clashes between player types. What if OSI went the other way and created an all Trammel ruleset shard? That would allow players to go there that want nothing to do with the Felucca ruleset.

Someone mentioned there should be no party system, why? Party chat only enhanced in-game communication. Are you saying that the guild/war/alliance system should be reverted also? That would be crazy. There are a lot of great things about UO today, and if they suddenly disappeared I think you would be asking for them back.
 
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Guest

Guest
You seem to truly believe what you are saying, so I will leave you to your beliefs.

For a "Seeker of Truth", though, you disappoint me.
 
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Syncros

Guest
<blockquote><hr>


you sir dont know much

first mages did NOT own everyone Pre run , if you could afford to play a pure mage and had the skills then hell ya you would be a god but a wise poisoner or a dexxer could destroy you , it was not about your template so much as it was about your reflexes and skill!

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry Ma'am but I do know alot. I do know mages do think they owned back then too bad I killed alot on my fencer. I know they cried about dper's yet they casted and still cast poison in their fights.

Back then it was more about conn as it always been.
Conn skill items- then
items con skill- now
Conn and skill of course sometimes switched but not usually.
 
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