The ARCHERY thread

[Guest]

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Weren't the last archery threads archived by EA to be inspected for further improvements?
Weren't those threads a few hundred posts "long"?

You are either trying to keep all archery threads in one long one or are hopelessly optimistic.

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/start rant

At least one person has not forgotten the year long Archery thread for "IMPROVEMENTS" that was REMOVED for "BACKUP". This thread will go as the last one, there will be hundreds of super ideas with history, fact, and coding options all laid out, and OSI will do NOTHING about the skill.

Sorry to be so bitter but I have gotten my hopes up for OSI do something for the skill only to be left disappointed by there lack of real interest in actually doing something to improve archery. Rest assured if they ever did anything to mess up swordsmanship or fencing there would be such an outrage that and immediate pub revert would be done and blaze hats and sashes would be handed out proclaiming "We are so very sorry for tampering with your skill"

/end rant

 

[imported_Grayshadow]

*Shakes Cynewulf's hand, pats him on the back, and provides him with his favorite soft drink*

*ahem*

Lots of great ideas here (for the most part), and I figured I just throw in my two cents, just 'cause.

Also note: I have two archers (one on his way to elder, the other at gm) and a gm bowyer (also gm lumberjack).

1) First and foremost, the crash bug should be dealt with, fast and with extreme prejudice. I can't honestly say it's ever gotten me (and I consider myself lucky), but the outcries of so many others can't be wrong.

2) It makes no sense that I have to stand there while my arrow is flying at its target, most likely to miss, or risk moving and lose the arrow altogether. While in a one-on-one situation, it's not extremely bad (unless the target is bearing down on you hard and fast), it's godawful when faced with multiple targets, all of which have targeted you. Moving Shot is straight BS - I shouldn't have to waste mana just to get the hell out of the way (plus, it's not even available on all bows, so tell us another one, Devs).

3) Archers should have something to fill that shield slot... not necessarily a shield, per se, but something. Perhaps a quiver? Bracers? (I love that idea.) Something with resists and a luck bonus.

4) Potion use should be a given. You're holding the bow with one hand, you deftly pull out the potion with your off hand, release the cork (and spit it away) with your mouth, guzzle contents - how hard is that?

5) The special moves suck - period. My bow can do Paralyze Shot and Mortal Wound. Ummm... these aren't exactly the most useful PvM abilities, are they? Mortal Wound is only good for Juka Lords and Orc Scouts - that's pretty much it. In a PvP environment, it's quite useful, I'd imagine... but unless death is dealt quickly... well, PvPers know what happens next. I'd like to see a Double Shot (or a "Hail of Arrows," as was mentioned earlier - damn, that would be sweet) or something that can actually be useful whilst fighting the majority of monsters.

6) UBWS on bows? Fixed (with regards to spawning) with Pub 20... but I still have several. It was mentioned recently that the Devs are working on a suitable replacement for Pub 21. My suggestion? Lower Ammo Cost. The thing is, though, without further diluting the useful bonuses to other armors (not to mention jewelry - ack), the best way to do this is to have a higher percentage than usual (for lower reg cost) when crafted (more on that below) or spawned. Of course, this lends itself to balance issues (Nerf the archer!), but it's something that can be worked out.

7) I would like to have "archer weapons," perhaps a short sword or dagger that can be used when the archer is out of ammo. Like posted above... when you're killed and looted, you're out of the game until you can get some more ammo. While it's not a problem for one of my archers (gm swords), the other is assed-out. While this "archer weapon" shouldn't be overpowering in the sense of damage done, it should be, nonetheless, effective. The "archer weapons" would be the same equivalent as a "mage weapon," i.e. there would be a negative skill penalty.

8) Enhancements. Come on now - be it ingot (which should be extremely easy to implement) or wood (more realistic, but extremely difficult to implement), there's no reason why bowyers can't enhance bows.

9) With regards to wood, though, it should definitely be a level as to which a lumberjack can successfully cut certain woods, like the miner with regards to ore. When crafting, the bowyer would be under the same colored wood restrictions that a smith is under with regards to colored ore.

10) Bowcrafting should not give a bonus to archery, at least with regards to damage. Whether you're chopping at trees or ogres, the same basic principle applies - the same can't be said for bowyers and bows, or smiths and swords. Plus, if any crafting bonus to a combat skill is implemented, it should be for all crafters - smiths get bonuses to the stuff they craft, carpenters get it, and tinkerers get it.

11) Archery buttes should be craftable add-ons, period. Fix them, too /php-bin/shared/images/icons/laugh.gif

12) More craftables? A hand crossbow (or an assassin's bow, per another poster) would be sweet, and definitely useable with a buckler. A quiver? Yup. A sling? Hmmmm... not quite archery, per se, but definitely something different.

13) Why is that a gm+ archer misses so much? A really good, hard look into the accuracy issues we all seem to have is long overdue. Maybe range should be taken into account, as well as the size of the target. There's no excuse for missing a dragon 3 tiles away 10+ times in a row.

14) Runic fletching tools. 'Nuff said.

*stretches* Welp, I'm done for now (and the crowd goes wild!). I'm sure I have more, but I've been at this post for over 30 minutes now (I've been doing other things too... really I have!). Have fun guys and gals, and thanks for reading.

 

[Hidesato]

Yay!!

Archers get some lub /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

Being an archer for something approaching 30 years.. my 2p/c's worth..

Fix the crashing.. luckily it's not happened to me yet (touch wood/wood substitute) but I'm dreading the day it does.

In the interests of expedience, use metal instead of wood for enhancements?

Figuring this maybe slightly quicker to code given metal enhancement exists already, and what we really need is the ability to add 'something' to a bog-standard bow. Also historically, wood has been the least significant advance in archery.. typically wood's used have shared common properties, but been from trees that've been suited to whatever climate. Things that have advanced bows have been things like laminates, composites &amp; improved arrow design..

Arrows are dumb. They hit, or they miss..

IE.. when I shoot one, I don't have to guide it to its target, so I really do not need to stand still until it hits (unless you want to give me a damage parallel to something like a TOW missile..).

Arrows do not decide to suddenly switch target. So when I shoot at a dragon, it shouldn't be thinking 'hmm.. that mongbat looks softer, I think I'll aim for that instead'. Especially in mid-flight, with a fair chunk of someone's mana attached to the arrow.

Arrows are the 'smart' part of the weapon.

Shoot at an plate armoured opponent, use a bodkin. Shoot at a lightly armoured opponent, use a broadhead. Shoot at something small &amp; you want to eat, use a blunt arrow. Ditch the 'moving shot' move from bows &amp; add something more relevant like 'bleed attack' for broadhead or 'infectious strike' for barbed arrows. Both of those archers discovered serveral thousand years ago.

Archers can use bucklers.

Archers typically relied on someone else to defend in big battles, either via a large shield held by someone else or it being propped up.. But there's nothing stopping an archer wearing a buckler. A Buckler is typically strapped to the outside of the left arm &amp; doesn't interfere with holding a longbow. Doesn't block much either, but can be used to parry.. and would add a little luck or other ability. And just to complicate things, it'd be harder to use with a crossbow..

One handed bows are pretty useless.

IE the pistol-style bows. Bow's damage is dependent on the energy stored in the springy bit, so in a smaller bow, much lower energy. In reality, that translates to something that would have a hard time punching through light armour. So shields could be used with longbows or comp bows, less likely with xbows.

In my thinking.. an archer's abilities should be comparable to a mages.. Both can do heavy damage at range, but are vulnerable up close &amp; personal. Useful things exist in the mage code.. wait a bit, chuck a spell &amp; run. That's how archery should be. The more damage you want to use, the slower it should be (heavy x-bows take quite a while to cock). Can't bits of the mage spell code be cribbed &amp; added to bow effects?

 

[Marlor]

I took my time in reading this post and waited until my thoughts had focused to make my own posting.

Not to long ago I started a thread in the hopes that a dev team member would see it and atleast comment. No such luck.

Preface:
All refrences to Magery, Chivalry, Barding and Necromancy will be left out of this post. This is to address the issues with ARCHERY, and not with template issues/advantages.

REQUIRED ARCHERY IMPROVEMENTS/ADDITIONS:

1. Accuracy- When Test Center for pub 20 came out my wife and I tested archery accuracy. Her with a Fencer and me with an archer. End result was that he fencer with 94 skill connected more often than my archer with 120 skill.
(Enough Said)

2. Fire-and-forget Arrows- The arguement the dev team gave in favor of this was a way of giving archers more accuracy. (allowing arrow to follow targets that could move out of line of fire). An arrow is not magical energy like an e-bolt is. E-bolt is cast and then "magically" follows it's target to resolution. Arrows are shot and have a predetermined course of flight. This cannot be changed in real life. There for if your target moves, you automatically miss as they are no longer in your line of fire. The same goes true for bullets in real life. This makes perfect sense to me....HOWEVER....i have been a student of martial arts for some 20 years and in that time have traveled all over the world for competitions and demonstration. In that time i have never...and I mean never, seen a person dodge an arrow or really have time to get out of the way. Much like a football quarterback can lead a reciever with a pass, the archer learns how to lead it's target with arrows by learning its movement patterns. This is just something the archer(quarterback) learns with minimial experience. The adjustment needed for this is quicker arrow speed. Not SSI, as that is how fast one fires the bow, but "damage registration". For a fencer, or a mage, these are instant effects. The archer must wait a full second (stationary) for this to happen.

3. Survivability- Arrows, regs, bandages and gold. Every monster that loots a corpse takes all three of these things no matter how many different piles you have. Archers are the only ones that have no compensation for this. Melee warriors have insured armor and weapons, any mage worth half his magery skill has atleast one insured arcane piece, and tamers have pets. The archer is neutralized. Period. There is nothing to help the archer. For this, develope the QUIVER. A insurable micro container that tailor/bowyers can make that will hold 50 non-lootable arrows. Much like a runebook, if the archer forgets to load the quiver, then he is on his own. Also the possibility of making this to hold resistances equal to the leather it is made from will help compensate for that shield slot. Luck could also be added by the use of spined leather. The quiver would take the place of the sash/doublet spot.

4. Runic/Enhanceable Bows- (See Other posts about wood system). This is not only a fair system, but a much required one. And much like vendors being the main focus for pub 20, this should be the main focus for pub 22 at the latest.

5. Weapon Selection- All five archery weapons are 2-handed. This limits the archer in several very important ways.
a.) In pvp combat a fencer drops his shield to drink a potion and still swings at his target, and has a chance to block an attack and connect with his own. An archer, drops a bow to drink a potion, and gets a "you are dead" system message.

b.) Loss of shield slot as mentioned before, causes loss of possible resists, fast cast modifiers, hci/dci mods, and Luck. As far as luck goes we are only talking about 40 points. But 15% hci/dci or both is a serious (grave) disadvantage. (See item 1. above for more disadvantate on this modifier).

6. Spell Channeling- A mage, can reach into a small reg bag, grab exactly the correct regs for a spell, wave his hands in two half circles, utter tremendous words of power and unleash 8 magic arrows....all while wearing a 15% hci/15%dci Spell channeling 15 resists HEATER SHIELD !!!! Yet an archer can not reach to his hip/over his shoulder and grab one lousy arrow while wearing even a buckler. (and generally does it faster). My point is this. Spell channeling shields should be bow channeling as well.

7. Damage Modifiers- Lumberjacking is to Axers what Range is to Archers what parrying is to fencers what armor destruction is to macers. Atleast the way it was (and still should be). I have to disagree 100% with the addition of Fletching as a damage modifier for archers.

8. Archery Buttes- Once a game of great reknown, Best Score in the Land, is all butte a memory now. And as a craftable item with customizable housing....this just makes too much sense. Bring these back craftable by carpenters with 65 Fletching skill required just like musical instruments(musicianship) and arbitoir/pentagram(magery).

9. Ammunition- One log will, after being shaped and trimmed down, produce one board. One arrow shaft is much lighter and smaller in mass than a 2x4 or even a 1x4 and therefore, LOGS that are used to produce shafts should produce 5 shafts and boards still the standard 1.

LASTLY,

10. Artifacts- Whats to say......WE DIDNT GET ANY !!!!!


Drex Farflight Legendary Archer Society of Archers (LS Chapter)

 

[imported_Grayshadow]

<blockquote><hr>

9. Ammunition- One log will, after being shaped and trimmed down, produce one board. One arrow shaft is much lighter and smaller in mass than a 2x4 or even a 1x4 and therefore, LOGS that are used to produce shafts should produce 5 shafts and boards still the standard 1.

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Oops!

15) One shaft per log is damn ridiculous. All but the most inept fletcher should be able to get more than one shaft per log. Perhaps make it skill-based? Journeyman fletchers get one per log, grandmasters get five?

 

[Sir_Gallant]

well I used to rodeo, I used to Steer wrestle. we had to pass from horse to steer. But we never used a bow. But I get your point. lol

 

[Guest]

Anyone remember the year-old "fix archery" thread on the old board? (This may have been mentioned already, but I am too lazy to read the whole thread, lol).

Critical stuff-
1) Fix archery buttes
2) Archer should only have to stand still while firing, not also while the arrow is in flight, to have a chance to hit.

Would be nice stuff-
3) enhanceable bows
4) runic fletching tools
5) more bow artifacts
6) reduce weight of arrows or create a quiver to store arrows and give a weight savings
7) replace the useless UBWS skill bow property with something... useful.
8) we should get more than one shaft for one log.

 

[Socko]

archery is fine, the only thing that needs to be changed is ubws. Less arrows maybe.

 

[Ms Scarlet]

The whole shoot and have to stand still till it hits your target is a pain indeed.

Thus, either fix that............. or if that is too difficult to program......

Then give us either:

A) better magic archery weps on monster loot and more often

B) runic fletching kits

I myself, would think that "A" would be easier to program, and we wouldnt have to deal with yet another BOD disapointment system.

Just drop more archery weps as loot!

thank you

 

[Kitty Black]

YES that is the first thing I want to see fixed, the client crash crap...then after that they can work on the "stand there like an idiot" issue where you fire an arrow and have to wait around for it to hit your target...I mean never mind the fact that you target hits you twice before your arrow hits.... that is the "stand there like an idiot" thing. Hmm then the fact that bowyers are just (how should I put this nicely?) screwed. I can't find a bowyer to save my life. I mean why the hell have one, they are pretty much useless, right?
I think I could go on all night about archery and its flaws, but most of what I have said already, and the rest of what I could say has already been said.
So just add me to the pissed off archers list so I can try to whine loud enough for something to be fixed.

The day Archery is fixed is the day that we will see flying pigs. But hey, on the bright side of things, I think I saw a pig growing wings the other day… could be my imagination though.

 

[Tracks]

Hey whats up.
I play an archer on Atlantic as my main character and I think its a fun profession as long as monster hunting is concerned. The only problem I got is when it comes to PvP. I can cope with that but one thing that I would really like to see improved is the time it takes for an arrow to hit its target. Im not talking about the firing rate here but about the delay between the actual release of the arrow and once it hits its target. Peoples on horses can outrun an arrow, thats not very realistic neither is it fun.

As far as crafting is concerned , its obviuos Fletchers deserves runic kits like tailors and smiths.

 

[Uncle Isty]

THE SOLUTION TO ARCHERY?

Suppose archers get instant hit shots just like meleers who have instant hit swings? Archery would be very powerful indeed with people hitting and running all over the place, generally making it unfair for non-archers. So a balance is in order.

If archers were required to reload standing still after every shot it would give non-archers a chance to hit them. Sounds fair? This would work fine with all the archery special moves and moving shot can be turned into a moving-reload or remain as is.

And if anyone moved while reloading it be like shooting before the animation arrow hit the target, the reloading time would be wasted.

However, meleers can still instant hit and move at the same time??? If archers could do moving shot all the time without using the special move it just might be a overdose fix along with instant hit. So.... I believe the proper fix and solution to archery would be....

ALLOW INSTANT HIT SHOTS JUST LIKE MELEE, HOWEVER REQUIRE ARCHERS TO REMAIN STILL TO RELOAD.

You likey?? Seems balanced to me. Makes perfect sense!!!


Questions? Comments? FIRE AWAY!!!!

 

[Travesty79]

Archers should be able to shoot while on the move, they should NOT be able to hold any kind of shield because it takes two hands to shoot a bow. Archers should be able to drink a pot though, that would make sense. Poison arrows is a good idea but I don't like the idea of having bowcraft to increase your damage for the simple reason that alot of people put bowcraft on their mule char to make room for a secondary combat skill to use when you run out of arrows. I think the idea of an archer's bag or something to hold arrows to be insured is a good idea because we are the only class that can't immediatley recover from a death due to no ammo. Is it just me or does it not seem that the actual string or whatever on the bow is what should make it a better weapon, does the wood type really matter? They just arch and create tension any material can do that. When I was a kid i use to use a clothes hanger as a bow it worked quite well.

 

[uohamster]

2nd most annoying bug (other than the first one which is insured items going poof) is the archery client crash bug.

 

[uohamster]

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3) An Archer's Quiver -- a container just for archers to store their arrows in that can reduces the amount of weight the arrows take up, or at least offer a new magical property for bows for a "Less Ammunition Requirement".

<hr></blockquote>

I like the "less ammo requirement" idea for a property.

 

[matr1x]

Well I find it's reading threads like this which makes me remember why I stopped training archery (Although before the launch of AoS I didn't think it would be needed due to UBWS)

Just wonder if there is to be a Dev response at all for this thread..... just one ... maybe a little comment ....... c'mon!!!!!

 

[Marlor]

6. Spell Channeling- A mage, can reach into a small reg bag, grab exactly the correct regs for a spell, wave his hands in two half circles, utter tremendous words of power and unleash 8 magic arrows....all while wearing a 15% hci/15%dci Spell channeling 15 resists HEATER SHIELD !!!! Yet an archer can not reach to his hip/over his shoulder and grab one lousy arrow while wearing even a buckler. (and generally does it faster). My point is this. Spell channeling shields should be bow channeling as well.


I just got pk'd on my archer with this being a factor. He had spell channeling shield/warfork both with dci 12%. he was atleast 2/4 fc/fcr if not higher. I had a 21% lightning 14% hit phys area UBWS composite bow. I got off 2 shots...oo0oo000o

Getting hit with an arrow should cause stamina loss much like spells do.

 

[Guest]

What are UBWS and Buttes??

 

[Aleena of Scots]

I thought you might find this interesting...I have a GM bowyer, I thought mrwarpig might have mentioned it to you. If ever you need it, I'll be there /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[imported_Grayshadow]

<blockquote><hr>

What are UBWS and Buttes??

<hr></blockquote>
UBWS is "Use Best Weapon Skill." By some strange Dev logic, Archery wasn't included in this. (I'm just gonna assume you know what it is now, and move on.)

Archery buttes are targets that once can practice archery on (up until about 25 skill), as well as get a score on for target practice/tournaments (that aspect has been broken for awhile now). You can find some in Haven, Yew, and a few other places scattered about.

 

[Olahorand]

UBWS=Use Best Weapon Skill

Buttes I assume the things you can (could?) train archery with (check in Haven for example).

 

[Grimswind]

I agree with almost everything posted so far. I would really like to add that we are demanding that archery be turned into a viable fighting skill, seeing as it is so resource (arrow/bolt) based.

1: Two ingots should be used in fletching to put the arrowhead on. Wood types shouldn't make a difference seeing as it is the point of the arrow/bolt that should make the damage, not the shaft. That being said, it should be fairly easy to implement colored ingots into fletching for varied elemental damage.

2: Poisoned/Flaming arrows/bolts should just be obvious. You should be able to cut oil cloth into wads to place on arrow/bolt, and a flint should be used to light it on fire. The 'wads' should only be placed on by fletchers based on skill. The flint should be needed in the archers back pack and should be dbl-clicked and targeted to a single 'fire' arrow/bolt (orange hued arrows/bolts). (Seems like the time involved to light an arrow would cover the balance issues involved). As for poisoned arrows/bolts, I would say that only a fletcher with poisoning should be able to create these (green hued arrows/bolts) and poison lvl should be based on poisoning skill, if the archer has poisoning then lvl5 poison chance (same as nox mage). This would have been so much easier before poisoning got changed to infectious strike. I'd say that the only viable solution that my limited thoughts would come up with is to change one of the special moves on two of the archer's weapons (primary and secondary) to infectious strike. How can anyone realisticly say that arrows/bolts should not be able to be poisoned/lit on fire? Its only about the most realistic thing that you could add to the game. Also, in doing this it will give bowyer/fletchers a new commodity to sell, boosting their economic disadvantage.

3: I cannot stress this enough, the animation from firing to striking has nothing to do with anything except coding. If you have the theory that an archer has to stand there to guide the arrow/bolt because the target has a chance to move away, it doesn't matter, once the arrow/bolt has left the weapon there is nothing more the archer can do to guide it home. Simple solution: Arrows/bolts should have the same coding as a mage's magic arrow. "Well, an archer has to reload" Well a mage has to dig into their many packs, pull out spell components, chant and concentrate, target. Which seems like it would be quicker? Mages can do all of that while running around non-stop and cast multiple spells (combos) while trying to accomplish all of those actions. THAT IS RIDICULOUS.

4: There should be one type of archery weapon that is non-craftable that would auto-load the arrows/bolts (making it a one handed weapon) making it possible to equip a shield. If anyone has any problems with the 'realism' of it, its MAGIC, every other class has non-realistic weapon attributes. The reason that I suggested it not be craftable is a balance issue so that it wasn't flamed by everyone and their mother that archer's are too powerful!!! (Thinks about a parry mage and sighs) Or make it craftable and lessen the damage to that of a dagger or equivalent, but having infectous strike as its primary special move.

I think that I have given reasonable suggestions with solutions and covered balance issues. Why can't a DEV member please just acknowledge that they agree with any of this as truth or just wishful thinking.

I agree with everyone else's comments (other than wood types which I explained in first idea), but these things I have listed are my main concerns and the ones that I believe have unbalanced us from EVERY other class.

I strongly suggest that EVERYONE (including Players, DEVs, Mods, GMs, Admins) read through each and every post in this thread. Yes I know it will take a long time but what is a half an hour of your life as opposed to seeing how truly ignored and disfunctional the archery class, and how many viable solutions have been suggested to help it?

 

[Mortace]

archers suffer the penaltys of a mage after death/looting but with no counter (lower regs gear, arcane clothing). Give us a special move that requires no ammo to use and maybe a few funkier effers too (poisoned arrows, flaming arrows - the RPG and D&amp;D worlds are full of great examples).

But sort out accuracy and the client.exe bug first, and I'm a big supporter of sorting out 'fire and forget'.

Oh I would like to see the minimum spawn on NPC fletchers be somewhere around 200. Getting ammo is the bane of my life.

And sort out UBWS skill, either it works for archers or get rid of it (I say make it available - mages get every weapon available with a penalty, but my archer stabs himself with a sword :-/ ).


... and frostbringer is pretty cack /php-bin/shared/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[Socko]

archery is strong enough you can already take out most of the big monsters without taking any physical damage whereas your average fencer must go toe to toe with the monster. In PVP i'm not sure since i never pvped with a archer so i'd be ignorant to answer for something i do not know of, but oh well /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Grimswind]

I think that alot of people here are upset with the pvp aspect. I dont care much for pvm.

Nice sig =)

 

[Socko]

thanks, btw wouldn't this thread go better in the archery forum?

 

[suburbanhell]

To run off of where Preyfar started,

Changes I'd like to see in archery:
1)Different types of arrows/bolts (i.e. fire damage, poisionous, etc)
2)BOD systems for Bowcrafters so we can start making runic bows.
3)I really like the idea of the Archers Quiver, fit like 1000 of each kind of arrow or bolt (see #1)
4)Stealth archery, should be able to shoot and stay hidden

 

[uthar]

My sugguestion is this:

make a quiver that is equipable in the sheild location. these quivers can hold a certain amount of arrows and can be insured (amount can be determined i would think 500 arrows or bolts or any combination of the two).

these quivers would not need to be seen except on the paperdoll (main reason would be to speed implementation into the game and can be later updated to be seen?)

these quivers would add sheild bonus amounts and can be made by fletchers. um what skill leval i dont know.

they can be enhanced with leathers for added resists.

can also be found as loot on archer npc's with resists and mods as appropriate to the creatures leval.

what do you think? solves a couple of issues about luck, the addition of sheild resists and would not take away from the two handed issue for actually using bows (i.e. no major recoding to add them).

minimal game changes for a maximum gain?

Uthar P.

 

[Snow Flake]

Add Archery Butts to the Carpentry Menu. You can make all the rest of the training things..........no clue why this is not on there. I guess its all part of ignoring archery like its not there.

And why oh why is the chest of drawers not on the carp menu.........it used to be......along with the fancy armiors and chests.......oh sorry this is an archery thread.

By the way ..........archery sucks in its present state........

Snow

 

[Grimswind]

The devs would NEVER look in the archery forum. We are lucky if they even look here.

 

[Guest]

&gt;"The devs would NEVER look in the archery forum. We are lucky if they even look here"

Just wanted to let those interested parties know that our archery concerns have not gone un-noticed... here's a response from another thread concerning the archery buttes/BSR event:

---------------

I'm racing to get a number of things done before I go home today, so I wasn't able to read this entire thread yet. However, I wanted to pop in and let you know that we're looking to fix the issue with Archery Buttes with a future publish, perhaps as early as Publish 21. (I've long been a fan of Baja's "Best Shot in the Realm" tournaments, and look forward to the return of your contests. :]

=========
Keith "Sannio" Quinn
Community Relations
Ultima Online (www.uo.com)
Origin Systems

-----------------

 

[Grimswind]

Sorry not to be rude, but I could care less about buttes. As this thread grows I'd like to remind everyone it is important to look through this whole thread there are alot of important issues here. I hope they do fix buttes for you but not at the expense that they then think they've actually done enough for archers for the next two years.

 

[Guest]

no offense taken.... I quite agree with you. The archery buttes are but a small fix to re-ignite a great player-run event. I would hardly be satisfied if that was the only thing that was done for archers... archers/bowyers have been neglected for far too long... it's about time the dev team puts in some serious effort for improvements to our skills.

 

[beatleman327]

I haven't read the entire thread yet so if someone posted this already i appologize. The few i did read failed to mention the shoot/client error bug i and others seem to fall victim to. This seems to happen when fighting anything magical as far as i can tell. If you shoot as the monster is casting of a drag is breathing fire it seems you get an client error and inevitably have to resign on as a ghost in most cases. This happened to me 5 times in about two hours the other night while fighting dragons in destard. While many of the other suggestions here are great ones and need to be looked at for implementation i would say anything that causes a char to become almost unplayable should be a priority for a fix. So the shoot/client error bug is my #1 wish for archery fixes.

 

[Zeldarwen]

I agree bugs should be the first thing looked into.

After that it would be nice to have a few of the improvments/ideas I've seen posted here looked into. I like the idea of arrows or bows that allow fire or poison damage. I exspecially like the idea of a quiver to hold arrows and perhaps give a little more protection/luck. I would like to see it take the place of the sash rather than shield... as archers need both hands free. But thats just my spin on it. Either would be fine so long as it has no effect on accuracy. Fletchers need something.. runic fletching kits, poisoned arrows, quivers, ...something.

I know that I am repeating a lot of the ideas already expressed here but just posting in the hopes that if this thread gets enough attention by the people here ... it might actually get a response from one of the dev team.

My archer is only 6 months old but much more fun to play than my mage.. or for that matter any of my other chars. I believe it has to do with the "staying" ahead of the monster aspect of it all. I thought of taking her to fel but from what I've heard archers are hopeless in pvp so I stay in tram.. ah well.

I think I would be happy if all they did was fix the client crash bug and the bit with having to stand still for so long after you have fired your arrow.

 

[Guest]

Before I start this post, I must beg your pardon, because I am spanish and english is not my native tongue. /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

In real life, the best improvement of archery were the "pulleys" they are now equiping, mostly on hunting bows. Well... these pulleys (I don't know exactly how is the name of this pieces in english and I am translating literally from spanish) are metal made. So, why can't a fletcher create this "device" using the different ingots we already have in game? This could be an easy way of implementing the enhancing code to archery weapons without the addition of new woods.

It's an easy idea =)

 

[UncleSham]

1: insurable quivers (perhapse quivers of holding as well)

2:let fletchers enhace / make runics bows

3: make me stand still to aim fine, but come on once the arrow leaves the bow i have nothing more to do with it.

4:how come my powerscrolled archer cant hit the broad side of a dragon?

5: assasin bows would be good . give the players their shadow strike and infectious strike . but with like almost no damage (think drow bow)

6: some of the higher damage bows should be 2 handed (strenght issues). others should be considered 1 handers so we can do potions etc . but im all for the idea of not using shield . think about it . how would you steady a shield at a proper level to absorb damage , yet aim a bow with that arm as well ? (fugetaboutit) i could see your free hand grabbin a potion real quick tho .(perhapse you lose a shot. ie you dint have time to grab an arrow )

7:thank you again for letting us finally repair bows . =)

 

[Mju4t]

archery is stupid

 

[Ms Scarlet]

Very nice idea!

Different wood would be nice sure, but that is likely a good excuse for the dev's to hold up being able to enhance bows.

Ingots to enhance is a win win situation.

Bring it on devs!

 

[Kra'Za'Li]

<blockquote><hr>

1: Two ingots should be used in fletching to put the arrowhead on. Wood types shouldn't make a difference seeing as it is the point of the arrow/bolt that should make the damage, not the shaft. That being said, it should be fairly easy to implement colored ingots into fletching for varied elemental damage.


<hr></blockquote>

I believe the desire is for bows to be made out of different wood not the shafts. eg. Longbows made of Yew have historically always been the most powerful. I think it's Yew wood anyway /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif
<blockquote><hr>

4: There should be one type of archery weapon that is non-craftable that would auto-load the arrows/bolts (making it a one handed weapon) making it possible to equip a shield. If anyone has any problems with the 'realism' of it, its MAGIC, every other class has non-realistic weapon attributes. The reason that I suggested it not be craftable is a balance issue so that it wasn't flamed by everyone and their mother that archer's are too powerful!!! (Thinks about a parry mage and sighs) Or make it craftable and lessen the damage to that of a dagger or equivalent, but having infectous strike as its primary special move

<hr></blockquote>
Hey as it's magic why not have it so it doesn't need ammo at all and uses arcane gems or something as a power source. This would also get around the archers are out of action after death situation.

In reply to whomever it was who said it's the string not the wood that matters I believe you are in error. Different woods mean different tensile strengths therefore different powers.

 

[Guest]

&gt;"In reply to whomever it was who said it's the string not the wood that matters I believe you are in error. Different woods mean different tensile strengths therefore different powers"


Just look at the Mongolian Bow as an example... the power comes from the way the wood itself is first treated, then pulled backwards, against the natural curve... makes for a super powerful bow (also means the draw weight is much greater than the standard English Bow)


&gt;"Hey as it's magic why not have it so it doesn't need ammo at all and uses arcane gems or something as a power source. This would also get around the archers are out of action after death situation."

Wasn't there a magic bow in Ultima VII part II? (I think that's it... the Serpent Isle one) I seem to remember a black bow that didn't use arrows, but shot fireballs instead... perhaps something on that line... like you said, perhaps using arcane gems to get a certain number of charges, so it could be a backup bow in case you die and need a few shots to get your stuff back...

 

[Olahorand]

"4:how come my powerscrolled archer cant hit the broad side of a dragon?"
Maybe you hit the extra hard scales?

But you are right, the hit chances should increase, if an Ettin is only 2 tiles in front of you and by no way you should completely miss.
If such a quick shot in panic gives only 1, 2, 5 points of damage - that's another think as completely missing.

 

[zaxil]

First doesn anything think this post will actully get noticed. I think it will but I dont have faith that well see any changes anytime soon. Hell it wont hurt to post though. Maybe well get lucky.

An arcane quiver like others have posted would be a great idea. Different types of wood only makes sense. Enhancing bows also makes sense. As does being able to poison out arrows. I play on siege so I can care less about item insurance I dont really like it too much anyways. Yes some crossbows should be one handed.

Also it really does make no sense that we have to stay untill our arrows land. As soon as the arrow leaves the bow we should be able to move and that should count as a shot. Thus we could have another arrow in air with the first in some situations. Keep the damage delayed so the person does haev a chance to run behind something like they can now. However I dont see how you can justify not letting us move like that.

 

[Versatile]

Enhance bows and runic bows are the most important.

Do you know how frustrating it is to have a smith able to make spell channeling weapons with 35% damage increase with ease while the odds of finding a spell channeling bow with 35% damage increase is staggering.

Make different types of wood and make it possible to "enhance" an item witht he particular wood. obviously there is not enough to make a bod system so i propose:

the result of enhancing with special wood is a 35% damage increase (since your remaking it as a gm wep) and it keeps the mods that it previously had, plus the damage stats of the chosen wood.

Thinking about it it is not an overpowering option, as runic weapons even with the lowest hammers can make a 35% damage increase -0 fc spell channel weapon (of course there are many other more powerful combinations available to, but there is little scope for failure, just not getting what you want.

make it so that all of the other mods added make the chance of successfully enhancing a bow, even if it is a 1 in 20 success chance for a good bow it is still something worthwhile (and good bows are hard as hell to find as it is)

Second is instahit. forget that crappy 1mph animation for the arrow, you fire and *thunk* you either hit or miss, no crappy move and it misses nonsense.
ok, to balance that out make it so that you have to stand still for 1 second before you actually fire, having the delay before is more logical and it would stop an archer from chasing after you and just stopping momentarily to release an arrow, with the delay you effectively have to stop and then aim.

 

[Bruno Idaho]

An archery thread - nice, thx...
Although I have participated in several over the years, and it still feels a bit like posting into a black hole, I'll have yet another go ;-)

Many good ideas here... (Like in the former threads).
Imo, what really needs to be addressed is the basic stuff – coloured wood, enhancing, new items etc. will be nice; but please let’s have the basics addressed first - and as soon as possible..
As the archery butte seems to be on the dev. agenda, the following are the ones that concern me most:

1. Crashing.
Every time I fight serpentine dragons I invariably crash within 10 – 15 minutes.
A year or so ago my archers crashed more frequently than they do today, so something changed for the better; but I still crash more frequently with archers than with any other characters.

2. “Fire and forget”. Once the ammo is fired the archer must be free to move.

3. Loss of ammunition upon death.
The other warrior classes can insure their weapons and be ready to fight after ressurection. An insured bow is useless without ammo - which is often lost or looted upon death.

4. More (and better) magic bows as loot.
As bows can’t be enhanced and only 100% physical bows can be crafted, the only source of magic bows is loot...

There are many other archery issues that needs addressing - as seen in both this and the former threads.
We got new bows and special moves - thanks for those.
Still, basic changes have been due for several years...
I hope you guys (you know who you are ;-) are going to do something about it this time - thx...

 

[Poxx]

damn. now my hopes are all stirred up...

 

[imported_Bluebottle]

As a GM Bowyer and GM archer this might be a little selfish but what the heck (I think the same should apply to smiths and the use of any metal weapon).

I would think that a GM Bowyer should have an accuracy advantage over a non-bowyer. I would expect you have a good chance of squeezing a little more out of a weapon when you are intimately aware of it's construction. The argument has already been made with lumberjacks being able to weild axes more effectively because they chop trees all the time. The same argument falls upon an archer/bowyer that should be able to use a bow better because they build them all the time.

 

[Grimswind]

I agree with that, it makes sense that if you have knowledge of the weapon more so than someone who just picks one up, you should have some sort of bonus.

Everyone I'd like to say be very careful of what you are asking for. I've seen alot of interest in runic additions for archery. I'm not saying that I don't agree, but if they implement that into the game for us, they will think they have done their part for archery for another four years. Runics would be great but first they need to fix some issues that make us powerless against every other fighting template, (refer to my post on page 4 of this thread).

 

[Guest]

I've heard some complaints that we have not responded to this thread (or others like it). I wanted to take a moment and say that there are many cool ideas here, most of which have been seen in one form or another for some time. We do get tired of having to say "that's cool, would love to do it, don't know when we can" much the way you guys get tired of hearing it.

We do recognize that archery has long needed some attention, and we are slowly but inexorably turning our gaze toward it. Look! Proof!

 

[Grimswind]

Thank God! (Or Mr. Tact) Thats all I wanted to know is that they realize that there is still a problem and maybe the DEV's will take some of our suggestions.