Siege and PBDs... an idea.

[Flay]

I vote for 3, everyone should get an equal chance.

I don't like promotional gifts or one-time permanent advantages at all, the thought that some people (like me) get a maximum of 255 stats while others can never reach that level, no matter how hard they try, is getting me angry.
If you have to preserve PBDs, just change them into PEDs, Personal Engraving Deeds, which make an item look like 'personally engraved by <playername>' which doesn't do anything to the item other than the name.

 

[imported_Castor]

3. Allow everyone to insure one item for free. This is exactly the same as the context menu PBD, just using an existing system. However, this would make PBDs useless, which is something to consider.


My vote also.

 

[Akane Wakayama]

I like #3, another thing to think about its many of us bought aos and got pbds on other shards but didn't have a char here so did not get a pbd on siege although you did indeed get aos. It levels the playing field for everyone to have one item.

 

[Fussel]

yeah and it would make it easier to find your weapon again *grins*

Nah, this is a fine idea, though the term insurance really makes me shiver

But, why not make it, really expensive, like 20k for one "insurance" go to the conjurer in TRinsic, give him this money and let him "bless it".
But then permanently, like auto insurance, until the player decides, he doesn´t want it anymore, and choses another item...for the same large amount of money. That takes away, that icky, insurance idea and still makes it somewhat special.
A new player, at the point where he can afford 20k will have a weapon that´s worth insuring.
The problem with insurance is, that it makes it way too easy to makes items "unloseable" and at such low cost, gives you the feeling, that the item no matter how good it may be is somewhat...well ordinary....
Blessing is something special...and it should come at a special cost.
And as a side effect, it takes away some money from the shard.

 

[Guest]

I like #3 best, but #2 would be fine too.

I will comment all 4 ideas:

<font color=008B8B>1. Allow everyone to insure one item at the full production shard cost, with PBDs allowing people to bypass that cost, thus they keep their usefulness.</font color=008B8B>

This may be the most easy, but I don't like it to cost money because just a little money will promote res killing and for a New on Siege it may cost to much just to insure a weapon for training.

<font color=006400>2. Allow everyone to insure one item at a reduced production shard cost, with PBDs allowing people to bypass that cost, thus they keep their usefulness. </font color=006400>

Again, I don't want it to cost anything, but I can see, it will stop players complaining about losing the advance of their promoting gift. 100-200gp would be fine

<font color=00CD00>3. Allow everyone to insure one item for free. This is exactly the same as the context menu PBD, just using an existing system. However, this would make PBDs useless, which is something to consider. </font color=00CD00>

I have PBD on most of my chars, but I still find this would be the best choice, but I also understand, that there will be someone who will complain, that's sad /php-bin/shared/images/icons/frown.gif

<font color=red>Added:4: Allow everyone to insure one item at the 3X the full production shard cost, with PBDs allowing people to bypass that cost, thus they keep their usefulness.</font color=red>

I would hate to see this, sure 1800 gp is not alot, but it's 900 gp to the killer and it will hurt newbies hard and we will see alot increase in res killing and people will fear to accept a res from their killer.
I had not read the rest of the thread but this would be very bad in my eyes. There will be enough loot left on the victim, no need to promote res killing too.

When we are with the prices, please lower boat prices to normal prices, there is no need for 10 x boat prices, it only make the sea a desert. I would love to see more life on the sea, I would love to see non mages use boats to get to islands, as it is now, noone can affort losing a boat to our pirates.
If the prices get lowered, you can tell the GM's not to help players back on their boat, the players will be able to buy a new boat and let a friend sail them back to the boat. That will spare the GM's alot of trouble.

 

[Guest]

Make it # 3.

And give us some warning- I wanna throw a party.

Thanks, Wilki!

 

[Guest]

Yes they could just turn on PBD for all, but then they would have to give one to all who not have one or lost one and that may take more coding than one insurance slot will.

Second, if you lose a PBD blessed item to a bug, then you lose your PBD.

If you lose an insures item, it should not be insured for other than you and if you can't get the item back, then insuring a new item should resed the old one to not insured and yes, you may have lost the item to a bug, but you can still insure a new.

I can see this kind of insurence must be a little different than the kind from normal shards, else I could insure one item on all my chars and hand it to Freja and let her carry all 7-8 insured items. They need to only work for the char who insure the item and insuring a new item need to reset the old one to not insured.

 

[imported_Varka]

Give everyone a single item insurance slot, and turn PBD's into reusable clothing bless deeds (albeit one that can't bless artifacts/etc.) Personally, I'd prefer they not be able to bless anything with a combat/resist modifier.

That would be my suggestion; they would then retain a bit of value for those that are lucky enough to have one, while really not affecting game balance so very much...

Varka

 

[StabbyYooStyle]

Please let me reiterate something. Insurance means insurance bug.

If you must do so, please make it an Bless slot, not an Insurance slot.

The more I think about all of this, I'd rather they just remove PBD's. They don't belong on Siege:
-Announce that PBD's (and any weapons attached to them) will be removed from the system.
-Give people a month to prepare (basically to remove the PBD from any items they have with the PBD on them and to tell anyone who hasn't logged on in a while to do the same)

 

[kanid99]

"Please let me reiterate something. Insurance means insurance bug."

Insurance bug also effects blessed items too, so blessed or insured, you are still at risk.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

If you had a pbd and lost it,you shouldn't be made to pay 3x the full production cost because of some bug. Why punish folks who bought their AOS copy and fell victim to a bug? Number 3 because its Fair and it brings Balance to the shard.

<hr></blockquote>

I think that post makes the best point, it is unfair to create a new cost for those who suffered due to a bug.

Malaki mentioned compensation ideas could pull this discussion off-kilter, yes and no, its going to come up because it was a promotion. If PBD elegibility can be determined using the billing/registration data... again, its not an attractive idea to punish those who bought early but lost PBD due to a bug, all or none. I think *some* kind of compensation would be a good move. It doesn't have to be a CBD as I suggested, it was just an idea. It could be a free gift choice from the AOS items (Holy Sword, etc...)

However, I don't think dropping a CBD is very unbalancing, anyone can make a tailor account and eventually get one. I don't want to get into a discussion of arti clothing items.

I

 

[Yasou Wakayama]

I would vote number three though I prefer there to be no blessings whatsoever ...

 

[Guest]

Yes if it's a bless slot or button that work like the bless deed, it will work.

If you hit the Bless button, you will get a curser to bless an item, and the button will changes name to "Unbless".
Now if you hit the Unbless button it will ask if you want to unbless the current blessed item.

This way, if you lose the items to the insure/bless bug, you can get your bless options back just with unbless the item.

Also it's important, that the item only are blessed for the char who blessed it.

Lets say, I should lose my blessed bow, and someone get it, then it's still blessed for me and he can't bless it unless I unbless it first and I can kill/try to kill him to get it back.

A bless button will never get lost, only the item so it will be better than a PBD

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

But, why not make it, really expensive, like 20k for one "insurance" go to the conjurer in TRinsic, give him this money and let him "bless it".

<hr></blockquote>

Love the RP aspect of that, but it would make this conjuror's lair a favorite place for thieves to hang out...

 

[Guest]

What I am curious to hear is how the code for a single slot will handle items dropped or lost due to a bug?

Lets say I lose my insured sword somehow, it still physically exists, but its now in someone's bankbox.

Its a rare enough occurance, but its the reason why we have this problem. Can the slot be reset at server-up? IE.. unblessing the item not in the character's pack or in his bankbox, allowing him to bless another? What would happen to the old blessed item?

What if the item is destroyed?

What if you have an item blessed, and recover the previously blessed item and try to put it in your pack or bankbox? Is it reasonable to put a code-trigger on those events that would be fool-proof? I would not like to see more bugs/exploits appear where people figure out how to bless a full set of artis.

 

[Sloan]

*types (ouch) at (ouch) a (ouch) snails (ouch) pace*

Thank you so much for getting this thread going wilkie....
And I'm just damn happy to see some positive discussion on the matter.
Offering us a solution that most everyone can be relatively happy with is just what we needed.

now....can we get our town criers fixed??? oh and make the cranes tamable... /php-bin/shared/images/icons/laugh.gif
HAR

ok i'm fading quick...

 

[Mac on SP]

I vote for #3 as well.

As for rewarding existing PBD holders, I say no need. The percedent has already been set for this with the 7AE gifts. How many people went and bought a box to get the one gift when if they had waited they could have had all of them for far less. The gifts were to be a reward for buying the box and for having an account. But that is not what has happened. As far as I see it existing PBD holders are no different then those folks that forked over all that money for the 7AE box.

I also would not like to see anything that puts a cost to the blessing. As has been noted this will only reward rez killers and/or eventually lead to the person losing their item if they don't have a lot of gold.

 

[KronosCWS]

In my opinion, keeping PBD's in the game for the one item bless purpose is heading backwards. You still end up with the problem of people losing their bless ability. The problem with people losing their PBD wasn't so much the item itself that they lost. That can be replaced. It was the loss of the removable bless itself. Any solution that continues to use this flawed design is doomed to repeat the same problems.

As someone who has a PBD on all 4 of his accounts, some sort of reward for having a PBD would be very nice. However, this would be completely unnecessary. You will already be in possession of a rare item, since PBD's will no longer be created. That in itself will be worth something. Anything more just perpetuates the imbalance. If you give out a CBD for it, you now have more "haves" and "have nots", not to mention you hurt crafters even more.

As to charging for the bless, you're no longer fixing PBDs. Instead you're deleting the PBD idea and replacing it with limited insurance. It would encourage res-killing, which is something to be avoided. The killer is already getting almost all the victims items. Why add gold on top of that? You also add a restriction on a new player to the shard. With a PBD, that new player can bless one item from day one, whether it is up to vet blessing standards or not. When you have nothing, that gm sword can hold great importance. If you add insurance costs, that new player now can't even bless that simple sword. We want to encourage people to come to Siege, and if allowing a newbie to bless one item without a penalty can do it, then it is worth it.

 

[Guest]

3
as far as those holding existing pbd's, hey we can argue over compensation till the world stops spinning for all I care, Just get us all one item.
and yes I have pbd's.

 

[Mandolin]

Ok.. I'll admit that when I logged in this morning, I read the first few replies here with one eye opened. As I got through page 3 I was pretty pleased to see all constructive discussion going on. Great job!

Now, as a newer addition to Siege, I like #3. But, I also begin to think about my friends and others on Siege who have PBD's thus would have to pass as the time they've put in to the game far outweighs my own.

So, I'll have to go with #4 as my final choice.

I'm a little nervous that easy targets such as myself will be the new spawn to farm at 900 gold per kill. But, I've adjusted to surviving without a PBD so far and my playstyle wouldn't change much. I just don't carry my insured item around with me when I'm out and about.

Thanks Wilki.. I know you burned the midnight oil the last couple nights like me trying to think of a way that will make everyone content. Kudos to you. Should one of these ideas finally get implemented I believe you'll have broken the tradition of angst towards EA Dev's and perhaps a few who have lost faith will give you guys another chance. /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

Thanks to everyone else for your input yesterday and your extremely constructive input today on this thread!

 

[Cerberus_DLG]

Wilki thanks for keeping the dream alive /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

My take is the end result is each player has one slot that can have a blessed item. Wether this is through insurance, PBD, or menu driven, I really don't care.

 

[Guest]

Thank you very much Wilki for thinking about solutions for our PBD problem. I like number 3 best

3. Allow everyone to insure one item for free. This is exactly the same as the context menu PBD, just using an existing system. However, this would make PBDs useless, which is something to consider.

I have chars with a PBD, and I see really to reason why others should pay when they die, just because they came later or have lost theirs.
The insurance cost on production shards is 600gp if you die in PVM, 300 gp for a death in PvP. This is not so much, I think people die more in PvP and could afford the 300 gp per death, even 900 when its 3x the cost, but whyyyy? Why should some people pay for deaths and have to farm money while others dont have to pay? Its not fair.

Thank you very much for thinking about solutions, I hope it can also be impemented, one item you can keep for all players on Siege would make a lot of people very happy.

 

[imported_John Connelly]

I vote for option 3. Who would complain that their promotional PBD was devalued by giving one item insurance to others? Such a person does not belong to Siege.

I personally doubt that the insurance bug exists. As far as I know the bug has never been duplicated by the devs. I think players forget to insure their artis, lose them, feel extremely stupid about it and try to convince others (and themselves) that it was insured and lost to a bug. I had plenty of things insured on my Trammy shard, died mutliple times per day, and lost nothing.

A few days ago I went back to my house to find one of my cow statues was not locked down, about an hour after I had been decorating. I probably forgot to lock it down, or missed the target with the cursor. Had it decayed I would have been raising hell about people stealing lockdowns from houses blah blah blah.

So, to bring this post back on topic, yes to one free insured item, and I will risk the "insurance bug".

 

[Nightfall_Siege]

Yea the persons who cries now...are the persons who have a pbd and blessed their artefact with it and doesnt want that the others will get a chance aswell to bless something..but whatever..3) is the best /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Kojo]

Option 3 would be good. It would allow everyone to have 1 item. I wouod not mind my pbd becoming useless because the end result is the same, in that EVERYONE woud have 1 item to keep after death. I like the idea of a context menu because there is no chance to lose. I know several ppl that have lost pbd's because of blessing a weap they smelted or got disarmed at death or even almost losing one cause they blessed a refresh pot. I am also in favor of removing alll blessed items from Siege but I can see that option 3 would be a workable solution. Both my accts have pbd's and if both became house decor so be it.

 

[lurker2891]

number 3 is by far the best.

I think some compensation could be go to a certain NPC hand in your PBD and get a grump to make a new piece of AOS blessed clothing.

And for the record the PBD was a reward for early settlers(People who bought AOS and upgraded within the first month of release). But since Siege got AOS like 2 months later then normal producation shards, the people on siege got to get there early settler reward for like 2-4 months after siege got AOS.
The reward for pre ordering was the hooded shroud of shadows.

 

[Argyle]

#3...LETS GET IT DONE NEXT PUBLISH!

/php-bin/shared/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

As far as I see it existing PBD holders are no different then those folks that forked over all that money for the 7AE box.

<hr></blockquote>

I don't need any extra items, and I doubt most Siege vets with or without a PBD really need anything either. I would just hate to see them go ahead and fix our biggest problem only to have the thanks drowned out by alot of whining. Hopefully, if this goes through without a compensation for "early settlers", people will see things the same way.

 

[Dark_Schneider]

<blockquote><hr>

Added:4: Allow everyone to insure one item at the 3X the full production shard cost, with PBDs allowing people to bypass that cost, thus they keep their usefulness.

<hr></blockquote>

Please do not take this route.

PBD's have already gotten their usefulness by giving those with them an advantage for how long now? As many others have mentioned this would promote Rez Killing and Griefing as players would be interested in obtaining insurance money, not to mention it would be pretty lame to kill someone with a PBD and get nothing then they're able to get 900 gold each time you die, hence promoting PLAYER SPECIFIC greifing.

Also for players that play often and and die often, say someoen plays a couple hours a night and dies 3-5 times, thats 21-35 times a week (yes it's a realistic number, I probably die approx 21-35 times in a week), insurance on normal shards I believe is 600 so that would be 1800 x 21 to 35 = 37,800 to 63,000 a week in insurance money (I'm not terribly familiar with insurance but if you die to a player the cost is halved correct?) So if you ONLY died in PvP it would be 18,900-31,500 gold per week. Thats 982,800 to 1,638,000 per year assuming you ONLY die to other players.

I have to agree with the NO COST item insurance. Many (not all of course) with PBD's would likely vote for the 3X insurance money out of greed knowing they've nothing to lose so thats a rather tough survey to run with biases on both sides.

PROMOTIONAL GIFT issue - I understand why you'd like those with PBD's to have some advantage but it should not come at the cost of those without, you will upset more people by charging us to have the same benefits than to give everyone the same benefit at no cost. If you want to please those with PBD's give them a new promo code for a Hooded Shroud of Shadows or something, but do not tax the players who have already suffered so long simply to not upset a few greedy players.

 

[Bulldog]

The idea has been around for a long time and any of the 4 options you quoted would be fine by me. Id like to see the slot called Cherished Item /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif rather than insured.

The biggest thing for me is that the effort this time is focused and doesnt become a huge looking at everything doing nothing issue but addresses the one Cherished Item per character concern that has so many implications for the shard.

Bulldog

 

[Guest]

i really dont care if pbds get useless and everyone gets it over context menu, 1 item insure with the 3x price, everyone a pbd or whatever
just make it fast
siege was waiting long enough /php-bin/shared/images/icons/frown.gif

 

[Guest]

Personally, I like #3. But for the people with PBDs, they need to atleast get something out of them.

I like the personal engraving thing, but also I like the reusable CBD as well. One thing would be to change it into a different item specially marked for the player with a small bonus...

#3 for sure, but make the PBD more then useless and turn it into a reward.

 

[Evermore]

Lets go with #3 and just give everyone on the shard a gift. A thank you both to early settlers and those who have made Siege their home since.

Surely, no one with a PBD would complain about a level playing field and a gift for all.

I have a pbd or three /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif, and I would love that.

Oh, and Argyle, I agree with you. The soooner the better. We have lost enough pillars of the Siege community. More attrition is not something we need.

 

[Asmodi_Mhul]

We DON'T need the "Insurance bug" and you are going to seriously piss off a lot of people if you introduce "Single item insurance" without totally squashing the Insurance bug first.
I honestly don't care how you implement it as long as it's done correctly and bugfree.

 

[Guest]

Bug-free would be golden, but SOME protection for one item is better than none at all... its the day to day imbalance of uber weapons/items versus lesser/expensive to lose items that people suffer from.

Agreed, it would be awful to lose a great artifact, but worse than that to not be able to bless another.

 

[Patty Pickaxe]

okay, I havent even read all of the posts yet, but I must reply now to a few things.....

First off my vote is for #3. People keep talking about those with PBDs keeping some sort of advantage or getting what they paid for. I do not agree that those with PBDs have to keep some kind of advantage. I thiought this was a "vet" shard? I thought this shard was suppose to be harder? Risk vs. reward? Why should ANYONE be given an advantage?

If you try to "compesate" those already with a PBD then in my mind there will still be two groups...the haves and have nots. Why should someone who lost their PBD to a bug now be to forced to pay for the blessing?

To the person who said he thougth rez-killing would not increas bc he'd like to think the shard had more integrity than than.....well, if Siege had that kind of integrity we would not all be running around in the blessed 7Ae gifts we all talk about hating so much. People would not use CBS in arties. I would be willing to bet that rez-killing would increase should gold be given out for kills.

My concern is how is the system going to distinquish between those that have a PBD and those that dont? What is going to stop someone with a PBD from blessing another item thru the context menu?

 

[Guest]

One quick comment: I agree that awarding half the money spent to insure your item to the person who kills you with would not be appropriate for Siege. That being said, I'm interested in seeing whether that changes peoples' preferences at all.

 

[Mandolin]

<blockquote><hr>

That being said, I'm interested in seeing whether that changes peoples' preferences at all.

<hr></blockquote>

Absolutely.. I'm all for #3 or #4 then.. I don't mind either under those circumstances. /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Patty Pickaxe]

it doesn't change my mind at all. People who lost their PBD to a bug should not have to PAY for a blessed item. No one should have to PAY for a blessed slot while others are getting that for free. It should be everyone pays or no one pays. We are trying to balance the shard, remember?

 

[Dharma]

3. Allow everyone to insure one item for free. This is exactly the same as the context menu PBD, just using an existing system. However, this would make PBDs useless, which is something to consider.

I think this one is the best solution. The other options will either end up with res-killings or much more complaints. And I don't believe that they bring the player justice.

Thank you for your post Wilki =)

 

[imported_Salaw]

I Vote for #3..It sounds like the fairest option of them all. I have all of my PBD's on my old shards. Why should I be punished further because I was not on this shard at the time. I bought the boxes and got the rewards, but when I moved I did not get any of the rewards here.

Number 3 Please...

 

[Achilles.]

I know it's a lost cause but i don't really see a problem with it. I say this as a blue who spent most of his time in a roleplay guild and only went red ~3 times last year but really, newbies to Siege get it easy enough. We can't keep newbies wrapped up in cotton wool. Best they learn how to avoid getting reskilled as soon as possible, before they have anything really worth losing, in my opinion. It is very easy to avoid being reskilled if you wish, once you learn a few basic rules. If the new player gets turned away from Siege due to one bad incident then... Well, Siege isn't for everybody.

Don't take the sting away from a reskill, just teach people to learn how to avoid one.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

One quick comment: I agree that awarding half the money spent to insure your item to the person who kills you with would not be appropriate for Siege. That being said, I'm interested in seeing whether that changes peoples' preferences at all.

<hr></blockquote>


<center>

 

[Guest]

It doesn't change my mind, I am still for number 3. People who came later or lost their PBD due to smelting the weapon, a bug or whatever shouldn't have to pay when dieing while others dont pay.

Thank you for your interest and I hope one of these ideas (hopefully number 3) would soon be implemented.

 

[imported_Castor]

#3 please....1 no charge insurance slot for all....

 

[Flay]

No opinion change...Number 3 it is.

 

[Spree]

I vote for Number THREE
I will use my bless dead as a door mat

 

[CharlesII]

Gotta be #3 for me. My concern is some noob or others like the orcs running out of bank funds and *poof*, there goes their item. Even if the killer doesn't get half the gold they still have a chance to run the victim out of gold and ending up with their item.

And, yes I would like to see my PBD's turn into some sort of reward but not badly enough to see that get in the way of getting this fixed. Reusable CBD idea was sort of good but not great. How about another vet reward choice? Underwear deed? One neon hair dye? *shrugs* Just some silly something.

 

[Mandolin]

Did a talley thus far and looks like #3 is in the lead with a close second by #4.. but with MrTact's comment, seems #3 is gaining the lead. Just an observation by the way.. not a preference. /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[imported_Max Blackoak]

i vote for option 3

i'd prefer getting totally rid of blessed items on siege though, but that's not very likely to happen, so 3 will do for me. it will put all players back on the same level.
(i have a PBD btw...still i like option 3 better than all the others!)