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Religion Revisited?

G

Guest

Guest
The Old Testament is actually surprisingly accurate with regard historical events (surprising for me since I did not believe in any of it). Much of what is the OT has non-biblical sources uncovered at various excavation sites, especially in Syria. I still however retain extreme scepticism of the NT.

Regarding religion as a whole, I think there are three definitive ways of proving or disproving it. There is a catch though...

1. You die a believer and end up in your religion's heaven (assuming you have followed the rules), or you die and find a one way ticket to eternal damnation.

2. You die and, well, you're dead and beyond caring.

3. A new messiah (or a second coming) comes along (for whatever reason).

They are the only ways I see of proving things to people with such diverse views and beliefs (short of brain wasing DPRK style).
 
L

Lady from Hell

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

How do *you* know the xtain god is not the poser? Prove to me that the xtain god is the right one. You cant.

<hr></blockquote>
Not that I can sway your beliefs or anything... or even that I'm trying to for that matter. But one interesting thing to note is this - Jesus was the only Messiah to physically die, then rise again.
No other human has done that.
 
R

Roscoe

Guest
<font color=blue>Not that I can sway your beliefs or anything... or even that I'm trying to for that matter. But one interesting thing to note is this - Jesus was the only Messiah to physically die, then rise again.
No other human has done that. </font color=blue>

Just out of curiosity, LFH, other than the New Testament how can you prove that this really happened?
 
I

imported_snoopy

Guest
Here is a discussion of a few other messiah's who have risen. It is taken from http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/library/links/16-saviours-3.htm#resurrection

Resurrection of the Saviours

We find presented in the canonised histories of several of the demigod Saviours the following remarkable coincidences appertaining to their death:

1. Their resurrection from the dead.
2. Their lying in the tomb just three days.
3.The resurrection of several of them about the time of the vernal equinox.

The twenty-fifth of March is the period assigned by the Christian world generally for the resurrection of Christ, though some Christian writers have assigned other dates for this event. They all agree, however, that Christ rose from the dead, and that this occurred three days after the entombment. Bishop Theophilus of Cesarea remarks, relative to this event, ‘Since the birth of Christ is celebrated on the twenty-fifth of December ... so also should the resurrection of Jesus be celebrated on the twenty-fifth of March, on whatever day of the week it may fall, the Lord having risen again on that day.’ (Cent. ii. Call. p. 118.) ‘All the ancient Christians,’ says a writer, ‘were persuaded that Christ was crucified on the twenty-third of March, and rose from the dead on the twenty-fifth.’ And accordingly Constantine and contemporary Christians celebrated the twenty-fifth of March with great ‘eclat’ as the date of the resurrection. The twenty-third and twenty-fifth, including the twenty-fourth, would comprise a period of three days, the time of the entombment.

Now mark, Quexalcote of Mexico, Chris of Chaldea, Quirinus of Rome, Prometheus of Caucasus, Osiris of Egypt, Atys of Phrygia, and ‘Mithra the Mediator’ of Persia did, according to their respective histories, rise from the dead after three days’ burial, and the time of their resurrection is in several cases fixed for the twenty-fifth of March. And there is an account more than three thousand years old of the Hindu crucified Saviour Krishna, three days after his interment, forsaking ‘the silent bourn, whence (as we are told) no traveller ever returns,’ and laying aside the mouldy cerements of the dead, again walking forth to mortal life, to be again seen, recognised, admired, and adored by his pious, devout and awe-stricken followers, and thus present to the gaze of a hoping yet doubting world ‘the first fruits of the resurrection.’

At the annual celebration of the resurrection of the Persian Saviour ‘Mithra the Mediator,’ more than three thousand years ago, the priests were in the habit of exclaiming in a solemn and loud voice,’ Cheer up, holy mourners; your God has come again to life; his sorrows and his sufferings will save you.’ (See Pitrat, p. 105.) The twenty-fifth of March was with the ancient Persians the commencement of a new year, and on that day was celebrated ‘the feast of the Neuroner’ and by the ancient Romans ‘the festival of the Hilaria.’ And we find the ancients had both the crucifixion and resurrection of a God symbolically and astronomically represented among the plants. ‘Their foundation,’ says Clement of Alexandria, ‘was the fictitious death and resurrection of the sun, the soul of the world, the principle of life and motion.’ The inauguration of spring (the twenty-fifth of March), and the summer solstice (the twenty-fifth of June), were both important periods with the ancients.

Hence, the latter period was fixed on as the birthday of John the Baptist (as marked in the almanacs), when the sun begins to decline southward – that is, decrease. How appropriately, therefore, John is made to say, ‘I shall decrease, but he shall increase.’ And the consecrated twenty-fifth of March is also the day marked in our calendars as the date of the conception and annunciation of the Blessed Virgin Mary. And it was likewise the period of the conception of the ancient Roman Virgin Asteria, and of the ever-chaste and holy virgin Iris, as well as the time of the conjugal embrace of the solar and lunar potentates of the visible universe. May we not, then, very appropriately exclaim of religion and astronomy, ‘what God hath joined together, let no man put asunder.’
 
I

imported_JagdWulfe

Guest
" I disagree. And there are many people who fundamentally believe something to be true without any impirical evidence based upon a logical thought process. Evolution comes to mind. I believe that a logical thought process will cause one to accept a belief that God exists."

How can you even say that with a straight face. There is more proof to evolution than the Christian God. You can see that animals adapt to their surroundings and the ones that do not die thereby strengthing the bloodlines and evolving into a smarter &lt;on the instinctual level&gt; breed. Where do you see proof of a dead guy getting up and walking?
 
G

Guest

Guest
<blockquote><hr>

Where do you see proof of a dead guy getting up and walking?

<hr></blockquote>

Some guy wrote it.

But then again...some guy wrote Lord of the Rings...soooooooo
 
G

Guest

Guest
As far as evolution goes, check out the classic study on the Peppered moth in England. Basically, about 150 years ago, when the industrial revolution was starting, the frequency of one genotype (pale background with dark spots) of this moth was MUCH more common than its alternate (solid dark brown), similar to how we have different eye color and hair patterns. So after about 50 years of the industrial revolution, the cities and surroundings, had become covered in a layer of soot from all the coal being used. The lighter colored moths became VERY visible against their background and were thus easy prey to birds and rodents. The moths that lived were the dark ones that could camoflauge themselves better. Over time, the entire population had gone through a gene shift where the dark moths were dominate over the lighter ones. Evolution.

As far as people dying and coming back to life, didnt I see that on ER? What people then might have called death, could very well have been a deep coma or some other such affliction. Now if he came back after a month, then I WOULD be impressed!
 
G

Guest

Guest
He was referring to Jesus. and I said that the proof of his ressurection is just what someone had written.
 
D

Devin MacGregor

Guest
<blockquote><hr>


As far as evolution goes, check out the classic study on the Peppered moth in England. Basically, about 150 years ago, when the industrial revolution was starting, the frequency of one genotype (pale background with dark spots) of this moth was MUCH more common than its alternate (solid dark brown), similar to how we have different eye color and hair patterns. So after about 50 years of the industrial revolution, the cities and surroundings, had become covered in a layer of soot from all the coal being used. The lighter colored moths became VERY visible against their background and were thus easy prey to birds and rodents. The moths that lived were the dark ones that could camoflauge themselves better. Over time, the entire population had gone through a gene shift where the dark moths were dominate over the lighter ones. Evolution.


<hr></blockquote>

That doesnt prove evolution in its entirety. That proves adaptation of a species and gives more plausiblity to microevolution but not macroevolution that says we all came from single cell organisms and one species evolved into another. It doesnt prove a dinosaur became a bird. Nor a walking fish became a reptile, a reptile became a mammal and so on and so on.

But oddly as a white person I am miffed why my white brethren having lived for generations now in hotter climates havent become more immune to the harmful radioactive rays of the sun. We seem to be developing more skin cancer.

We still have the mainstream "out of africa" theory and the other one that believes that **** sapiens evolved in different areas of the world roughly at the same time. It was once believed the neanderthal was once in our line but is now said to be a dead end and not of our line. I guess the rationale of that would be they were correct then because that is what their then limited scientific instruments pointed to but since today we have much better scientific instruments their conclusions were proven invalid but todays are correct.

As an Athiest I gotta say that evolution is still largely a theory and has not beyond a shadow of a doubt been proven. It could very well have been little green men who saw some monkeys and genetically altered them. Probably unlikely but none the less we genetically alter things today. So the altering concept is plausible but no real proof that little green men have visited us or that they even exist.
 
D

Devin MacGregor

Guest
<blockquote><hr>


Just out of curiosity, LFH, other than the New Testament how can you prove that this really happened?


<hr></blockquote>

Some guy at my last work stated that the Romans actually had a record of the crucifiction (&lt;--- oo a pun, actually I am too ****ing tired and should go to sleep but cant. That is how it came out). Anyway, I asked for him to show me the money and well the ****er got a job in Misery and bolted.

And dude, I came to make a snide comment on so who is winning and saw you. They are ropa-dopin' ya.
 

Ancient Sosarian

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Hello Folks,

I will add my comment and folks may do with them as they wish.

There is no question that God IS. The notion that the complexity which is our universe, the existence of DNA, etc could EVER exist absent God to create it all is an absurd notion if not a delusional one.

Some so called scientists and those claiming Origin and ascent by time and natural selection simply choose to embrace nonsense rather than acknowledge God, their Creator and Sustainer of all that is.

Christianity in simplest form is acceptance of the Old & New Testaments as God's written revelation of Himself to His creations (humanity).

I ignore all statements of instances where flawed humans perverted God's Word and claimed to do so in His name. Those perversions are on humans...not God.

Absent God's beneficial impact upon most of the 6 billion humans sharing this planet, there would likely be only 2 groups of folks on the earth under one worldwide tyrannical rule...masters and slaves.

God personally introduced Himself to me in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ, and in His indwelling Holy Spirit, in August of 1973. We remain inseperable for the remainder of my life in this world or until Christ returns. In eternity God will eternally be in my presence.

Living a Holy Christian life isn't easy for we retain the sin nature we are born with. Christ does however empower us to live such a life if we yield to Him rather than to Satan or to the lusts and temptations of this world.

Regardless, our only important role in this life is our preparation for eternal life. Christ is the ONLY "Way, Truth, and Life." Accept Him as Lord and Savior, embrace His Holy Word.

Religions are man made attempts to justify themselves to God. Christ is God's Way of redeeming humans to restored and eternal fellowship with God.

An Sos
 
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