Cannons that don't do what they should do. lol
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REAL skill should offer a much better bonus than "beefed up" skill level.....
Hmmm.... wasn't there an Event a while back when they were actually usable against some "baddies" ?
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
Maybe you should understand it then before you try and argue points about it. You're like a fry cook that thinks he can cook like a chef just because he works in a kitchen.
Get a clue, then get another one, and maybe you'll understand then.
Maybe.
It's a game that has adapted over time to fit the wants/needs/imaginations of its consumers, within reason. Ninjas and Sammys were around in other parts of the world in those ages, so its feasible.
I don't know.
I think that for a game like Ultima Online, an identity which the original inception received from the long history of the Ultima saga, was important.
But with all of the changes diverting from it, I am afraid this identity might be getting lost and I am not sure how much I can still see of the Ultima tradition in this game.....
Perhaps I am an Ultima purist, I don't know, but when changes divert so much from what Ultima always has been, well, lots of doubts come up my mind.
Am I playing an Ultima game or just a fantasy game, at this point ?
C
Coppelia
Guest
The Ultima saga? with bobbits, fuzzies, travels in space... ?
I don't want it.
I don't want it.
It's still of the Ultima legacy. Look at SA, they're adapting from the original series. Things have to change some over time as people's tastes change.
I've said everything on the argument against popps that's still going on, more or less. Popps stoped replying to my posts, and argued the same things against other people... So as a reply to all popps has said... See other posts. Really Popps... Adapt and over come, or play WoW, or build your own UO free shard with "hard caps" and remove your skill items and add bonuses for 120's in skills because you're just talking in circles. I think you should just give it and make a post stating something else is breaking UO, and we should give everyone puppies inscribed with "I wuv U" to fix it. Joking aside, seriously, the ignorance is annoying me... and I really don't feel like retyping my arguments as, I already typed them, and everyone else is stating the same thing anyone. So's popps! Did he pull out SA again? I didn't read the 3rd page.
I don't know. But the fact is they don't do what they should now...
What is this "REAL" skill that you talk about popps?
Throughout this entire thread you have senselessly ranted about "REAL" skill.
According to ALL of your rants you believe that everything else ingame pales next to "REAL" skill and yet in your own words "REAL" skill is simply the training of a skill(the fact that the training of all skills in Uo requires only the repetitive mashing of keys and 0 intelligence is apparently ok by you though lol)
You mindlessly cling to the words "cap and "wall" as if they are a lifeline.
A large bug could land on a keyboard causing a character to Gm Focus in approx 1 day and this would seemingly be ok by you as long as the bugs character wasnt wearing a skill item.
You have no clue how pathetic your point of view is. Your version of Uo would be completely void of any need for original thought or creativity. You essentially just keep repeating that the TRAINING of skills is what the game is all about. You dont even seem to realize or be bothered by the fact that these days damn near every warrior ingame is training your so-called "REAL" skill on a Golem inside town walls.
*shakes head*
Throughout this entire thread you have senselessly ranted about "REAL" skill.
According to ALL of your rants you believe that everything else ingame pales next to "REAL" skill and yet in your own words "REAL" skill is simply the training of a skill(the fact that the training of all skills in Uo requires only the repetitive mashing of keys and 0 intelligence is apparently ok by you though lol)
You mindlessly cling to the words "cap and "wall" as if they are a lifeline.
A large bug could land on a keyboard causing a character to Gm Focus in approx 1 day and this would seemingly be ok by you as long as the bugs character wasnt wearing a skill item.
You have no clue how pathetic your point of view is. Your version of Uo would be completely void of any need for original thought or creativity. You essentially just keep repeating that the TRAINING of skills is what the game is all about. You dont even seem to realize or be bothered by the fact that these days damn near every warrior ingame is training your so-called "REAL" skill on a Golem inside town walls.
*shakes head*
Just out of curiosity, since even putting on 5 mods x 15 = 75 skill points on a ring and bracelet adds 150 points total bringing the template to 720 + 150 = 870 points, where do you get the extra 55 points towards a tamer template from ?
On a side note, if others can't understand why I dislike +skill items well, be assured that I also have a hard time understanding how others can love so much +skill items.....
Most importantly, I can't for the life of me understand how developers can let these items be in the game to such a deep extent.........
The game has a given difficulty to be played. If players can boost their skills, the game becomes easier and what once was a challenge becomes dull, tedious playing..
Then, chances are, that players may complain how the game became easier and want developers to make it harder thus making it more difficult for new or returning players to dig in.
That is, I do not understand the logic of it. Why the desire of boosting one's own template to make game play easier (for example a tamer so powerfull to be able to drop even high end targets fastly and easily) and then see the game become so easy to play that the developers need to raise the difficulty up to keep players interested.
Makes no sense to me.
If I seek the challenge in playing the game, why would I want then to boost my template so much to make game play easy and dull ?
Theoretical max skill:
720 natural
150 from ring/brace
30 from burglar's bandana
40 from shadow dancers leggings
15 from bloodwood spirit
10 from pugilist gloves
10 from Song woven mantle or arms of tactical excellence
15 from Tome of lost knowledge
= 990 points
However, not all of those items actually give complementary benifits.
If I were to max out a character's skills for PvM, I would include a ring/brace with 75 skill points. I would throw in the birds talisman for 10 points and the Tome for 15 points. Then I would add in the burglar's bandana and shadow dancer's leggings for 70 points (but only 30 would be useful to the template).
This would give a possible template of 120 taming/lore/vet/magery/med/stealth/100 hiding/105 in another skill (most likely ninjitsu, possibly 120 EI and lowering magery to 105 or perhaps even spellweaving) with an extra 40 points in stealing/snooping that I'd never use.
That's just one example of extreme use of skill points. The problem then would be only having a tunic, arms and gloves to make up for as much of the weaknesses left over (the previously mentioned pieces have no LMC, no MR, low resists, no SDI (but you can't make it up with the remaining pieces) and no dci.
In other words, I'll bet my 720 point tamer could out-perform this theoretical template in many high end situations, most notably champ spawns and Bedlam/Prism/Twisted Weald key collecting where avoiding being attacked is all-but-impossible.
The game only becomes easy and dull when you allow it to become easy and dull. If items make it easy and dull for you, then try fighting without all the bells and dings (There is a large group of players on Europa who do exactly that. They PvP, Peerless, champ spawn, etc with nothing but non-runic crafted gear and no jewels. Few of them even have skills over 110).
720 natural
150 from ring/brace
30 from burglar's bandana
40 from shadow dancers leggings
15 from bloodwood spirit
10 from pugilist gloves
10 from Song woven mantle or arms of tactical excellence
15 from Tome of lost knowledge
= 990 points
However, not all of those items actually give complementary benifits.
If I were to max out a character's skills for PvM, I would include a ring/brace with 75 skill points. I would throw in the birds talisman for 10 points and the Tome for 15 points. Then I would add in the burglar's bandana and shadow dancer's leggings for 70 points (but only 30 would be useful to the template).
This would give a possible template of 120 taming/lore/vet/magery/med/stealth/100 hiding/105 in another skill (most likely ninjitsu, possibly 120 EI and lowering magery to 105 or perhaps even spellweaving) with an extra 40 points in stealing/snooping that I'd never use.
That's just one example of extreme use of skill points. The problem then would be only having a tunic, arms and gloves to make up for as much of the weaknesses left over (the previously mentioned pieces have no LMC, no MR, low resists, no SDI (but you can't make it up with the remaining pieces) and no dci.
In other words, I'll bet my 720 point tamer could out-perform this theoretical template in many high end situations, most notably champ spawns and Bedlam/Prism/Twisted Weald key collecting where avoiding being attacked is all-but-impossible.
The game only becomes easy and dull when you allow it to become easy and dull. If items make it easy and dull for you, then try fighting without all the bells and dings (There is a large group of players on Europa who do exactly that. They PvP, Peerless, champ spawn, etc with nothing but non-runic crafted gear and no jewels. Few of them even have skills over 110).
I totally agree with you on most points there Farsight 
Setting aside the 990 template though, you can make some very nice hybrids with only moderate pushes above 720. Which is why there is quite a lot of anger in this thread from certain posters, who clearly use these templates and find them successful. And by the sounds of it, spent too much gold in the process
The skill item users don't want to give up those items, but they also don't want everyone else to be able to train to the same level they are at.
I think if imbuing allows configurable skills onto items, it's going to make some templates far less exclusive, but there will still be an imbalance because some skills have more skill items available to them. Which is why if we're continuing the skill items in game, the skill cap should be set at a fair level and apply to all players. It's not the ideal balance IMO, but at least it means everyone can access the same templates.
Wenchy
Setting aside the 990 template though, you can make some very nice hybrids with only moderate pushes above 720. Which is why there is quite a lot of anger in this thread from certain posters, who clearly use these templates and find them successful. And by the sounds of it, spent too much gold in the process
The skill item users don't want to give up those items, but they also don't want everyone else to be able to train to the same level they are at.
I think if imbuing allows configurable skills onto items, it's going to make some templates far less exclusive, but there will still be an imbalance because some skills have more skill items available to them. Which is why if we're continuing the skill items in game, the skill cap should be set at a fair level and apply to all players. It's not the ideal balance IMO, but at least it means everyone can access the same templates.
Wenchy
Well, I have a feeling that even though having a Ferrari sounds cool, if everyone had one, perhaps it would not be "as" cool as being one of the few to have it....
Nonetheless, I'd rather see everyone be able to have one rather than just a few.
Personally, I do not like the concept of elite.
So you think that everyone should be equally lame then?
Well, let me think........
I don't know, but if I see where the widespread materialism is taking our small planet to, that I see its depletion of resources, vast environmental pollution, species who share the planet with us growingly endangered to get extinct for lack of sufficient territory and resources to survive and all that, I would say that widespread materialistic well being is quite dangerous on a planet with a population of about 7 billion humans and growing......
On the other side, it ain't fair to say that only a few should be entitled to well being and all others sit and watch so, my opinion is that perhaps yes, the best thing would be that everyone should have less well being so that whatever the planet can sustain is shared by all those who inhabit it, and I mean humans and creatures alike.....
I do not see it as lame, though, just as fair and better in the long term.
That has about zero to do with skill modded items effects in a video game.
I don't know, think I read somewhere that video games "could" be also educative and teach to new generations good things that can possibly improve real life for all........
Far fetched ?
Who knows, but maybe having games that teach the path of virtue and whatever could also help in the real world may not be that a bad idea.....
Of course, it is a matter of opinions......
N
northwoodschopper
Guest
I guess I'll admit to having a tamer that has +30 from jewelry to animal taming, animal lore, and veterinary. Along with the talisman, I've kept my Animal Taming and Lore locked at 85 for years, and Vet at 90. It freed up 100 skill points which was nice for spellweaving. I chalk it up to the nature of the game now, where items are just as, if not more, important as skill setup. The main disadvantage to my character is that this character is really reliant on one particular set-up, and can't really change out too much equipment.
C
Coppelia
Guest
Really far-fetched. You know, UO is a world where the more and the better you "work", the most you get. If you kill 100 more mobs, you'll get more than if you didn't. If you spend 50 more hours looking for buy/resale opportunity, you will get more. Everytime you give back a BOD, you get a reward.
Let me tell you that if you make young players believe it works the same IRL, you're very cruel.
What you can use UO for the education of someone is to learn to deal with other players and behave despite the easy wall of anonimity that could cover the stupid acts of this person. Beyond that, it's a game and should be played as such. Actually, no-one should say you have to "work" in a game.
There are games where you don't need to grind to get the high reward, because you play a lot without doing repetitive and tedious tasks that are asking to be automated. You're just playing and in the end you're rewarded. UO, being first of the wave of MMOGs, has an excuse for the partial failure there. At least there's a lot of different grind to do. Some "new" games are still using the "work for your reward" mentality while the possibilities are very few.
I personally would rather that we weren't all equally "lame" however the skill item addicts would raise the roof if their precious skill items were nerfed, so if nobody wants to be balanced down the way, I figure it's as well to balance the rest of the players up. But I certainly don't want to see anything as crazy as a 900 skill cap as that'd cause far more balance problems than it solves.
Wenchy
G
Green Meanie
Guest
im not gonna pretend ive read ever post i will say that i agree that skill jewlery can be a bit unbalancing but it does cost in other possible item mods that can be achieved. I think there should be a cap that can be added to a single skill from a item of say 30 and a cap of total skills that can be added of around 60 this would balance it out with the way most other item mods are right now where there is a max achievable. with no cap on items several mechanic explots can exist( vampire or enemy of one for example). I wont say that plus skills is entirly bad as i said you do have to pick and choice item mods to not use that could make a large diffrance in how effective your char is.
1 example a person with 90 swords 120 do to items and low hci dci will come up lacking to a person who has 120 swords real and took them item mods and put them into hci and dci instead
1 example a person with 90 swords 120 do to items and low hci dci will come up lacking to a person who has 120 swords real and took them item mods and put them into hci and dci instead
Basara
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A couple of errors,,,
+20 Necro Midnight Bracers
+10 Parry from Ancient Samurai Do
+5 Parry from Dupre's Shield
If one used a crafted book, +12 magery & Eval
= over 1000
This ignores some of the Champ clothing skill bonuses, so would be even higher
Suit would be medable, though you'd disarm the shield when going active med
Jewelry, in this extreme example, would be
Healing
Anatomy/Necromancy/Stealing/Eval (+30 in one, or +15 each in 2 - we'll assume +30 Eval for this example)
Stealth
Spirit Speak
Magery
Template:
(+10 Snoop - pretty much ignored)
Healing 60 natural (100 with mittens & jewelry)
Parry 85 natural (100 with shield, tunic )
Necro 75 natural (100 with gear)
Stealth 17 real (77 with gear & jewelry))
Stealing 70 real (100 with gear)
Hiding 100 natural
Anatomy 100 real
Eval int: 78 real (120 with book & jewelry)
SS 60 real (100 with jewlery)
Magery 75 real (120 with jewlery)
720
+307 (i think)from equipment
Template actually works, but lacking in resists.
Since suit is medable, I believe 77 stealth is sufficient for 100% stealthing.
Gets the benefits of parry for defense.
healing+SS+spells means never having to be afraid of not healing (will be more likely to go lich form & wisp for mana, and be constantly bandaging, rather than vamp or wraith -plus add in a CC for regens, melissa's cloak for fire resist, boots, dress, other clothing etc.)
Can cast full range of spells for both classes
How's that for absurd suit templating?
+10 Healing from Stitcher's Mittens (more complementary with the other skills)
+20 Necro Midnight Bracers
+10 Parry from Ancient Samurai Do
+5 Parry from Dupre's Shield
If one used a crafted book, +12 magery & Eval
= over 1000
This ignores some of the Champ clothing skill bonuses, so would be even higher
Suit would be medable, though you'd disarm the shield when going active med
Jewelry, in this extreme example, would be
Healing
Anatomy/Necromancy/Stealing/Eval (+30 in one, or +15 each in 2 - we'll assume +30 Eval for this example)
Stealth
Spirit Speak
Magery
Template:
(+10 Snoop - pretty much ignored)
Healing 60 natural (100 with mittens & jewelry)
Parry 85 natural (100 with shield, tunic )
Necro 75 natural (100 with gear)
Stealth 17 real (77 with gear & jewelry))
Stealing 70 real (100 with gear)
Hiding 100 natural
Anatomy 100 real
Eval int: 78 real (120 with book & jewelry)
SS 60 real (100 with jewlery)
Magery 75 real (120 with jewlery)
720
+307 (i think)from equipment
Template actually works, but lacking in resists.
Since suit is medable, I believe 77 stealth is sufficient for 100% stealthing.
Gets the benefits of parry for defense.
healing+SS+spells means never having to be afraid of not healing (will be more likely to go lich form & wisp for mana, and be constantly bandaging, rather than vamp or wraith -plus add in a CC for regens, melissa's cloak for fire resist, boots, dress, other clothing etc.)
Can cast full range of spells for both classes
How's that for absurd suit templating?
heck yea thats what i'm talking about
G
Green Meanie
Guest
yes that would be an absurd number of skill points but worthless in pvp even as a faction thief. and lets face it in pvm u might have alot of nifty stuff you can do but almost any half decient 720 template can out damage you becouse they can pack in WAY more SDI MR LMC or DI HCI SSI not to even mention fc and fcr
C
Coppelia
Guest
Yes because it's possible to get jewelry with the 5 skills you want at +15. Sure.
T
TheGrayGhost
Guest
There talking about what could be done with Imbuing. The crafting skill in SA that allows you to add up to 5 mods to an item at your desired intensity oO. But yeah, I don't think it's going to be overly easily even with imbuing to get 5 100 intensity mods. Doesn't mean it isn't possible lol.
This three page bore of a discussion ends with Popps posting this in trade forums..
http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=151855
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
Don't forget him making a post about the same here in the Hall.
I think I did say that if I could, I would change the game to a more skill based one (as it once was) in a heartbeat reducing the current heavy need for items......
Unfortunately, I cannot, and I must live, even though I do NOT like it, with what we have, which is, a plethora of items.......
Sort of like I hate breathing the pollution of the city I may live in but I cannot help not breath it since that is the city where I live, work and all that.......
I don't like it, I may even hate it, but I have to live with what I got if I cannot change it....
Hope it is clearer now.
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
Only after it was pointed out what a hypocrite you're being. You don't HAVE to have +skill items to so ANYTHING in UO or compete with ANYONE. Not one bit.
You can always move. Just like you can always NOT use the +skill items, or you can continue to be a hypocrite and use them anyway.
Yeah, you got caught being a hypocrite, so now you're backpedaling.
Really ?
That's news to me. I have seen players go out of their way to find items with mods that boosted them and this was all for nothing ?
Wow.
Please, if people seek items it is because they boost their playing. And I should think they are "ineffective"?? C'mon........
Well, if this is the game I feel to play I must live with what it has.
Could I change the items' dependancy I would do it in a heartbeat but I cannot, and I have to live with what it got.
Yeah, you got caught being a hypocrite, so now you're backpedaling.
Excuse me ?
Do we know each other ?
I usually do not make judgements of others unless I have known them well.
Besides, do I know wrong that on these Forums it is only allowed to discuss ARGUMENTS, not individuals ?
If they changed the rules and now individuals can be discussed, please a Stratics official rep let me know. Thank you very much.
W
Wolfways
Guest
While i was really against the introduction of skill-enhancing jewelry i also realise that it's here to stay. I no longer think that's necessarily a bad thing though.
Some templates (i.e. warrior) are very restricted when it comes to skill points, so using items is a good way to expand the template.
As far as "real" skill getting a benefit over item-enhanced skill....yes i think it should. No idea what though...
Some templates (i.e. warrior) are very restricted when it comes to skill points, so using items is a good way to expand the template.
As far as "real" skill getting a benefit over item-enhanced skill....yes i think it should. No idea what though...
Popps... It's been discussed over and over and over again. How many times do you need to hear this? No one NEEDS the Skill + items! You can compete without them! THey don't make anyone this insanely powerful person so get over yourself and move on! Everyone just let this thread die. Please.