Fel REVIVE

[OREOGL]

I'm sorry you don't think my post was constructive. As someone who has been playing for a long time I thought it was worth understanding why players like me aren't coming back to Fel. I thought the issue was that PvPers wanted more and better content aimed at their community. My point was that you would be better served by making Fel attractive to a broader base of players (through voluntary and willing participation). If you don't want to make your style of play more appealing to all, then your population isn't going to grow and Fel will die out. Most of you have admitted that you are crossing over to Trammel to take part in the new content, whereas Trammel players aren't going to go to Fel regardless of content. Seems the developers are smarter than you think cause they are reaching a broader base with new Trammel content. You might be coming over growling and snarling, but you are coming over.

UO is a sandbox game. Anything Broadsword comes up with will get boring fast. As players have stated, there are only so many times you can kill the same monster, player, whatever. Various pro-PvP players in this thread have stated that the Devs don't understand what PvPers want. I suggested the PvP community should design their own events - both for themselves and if desired, to recruit other players. If you want the game to be fun, you have to find a way to make it fun. Don't look to the developers - your $15 a month is the cost to play in the sandbox - what happens in the sandbox is up to you.

The idea that any one group is keeping the game afloat is doubtful. If you can point to an actual analysis of play styles as it relates to recurring revenue that shows PvPers are carrying the game I'll admit I was wrong. I just remember the General Chat crowd on my shard that used to complain about how dead the shard was and that if they ever left it would be the end of the shard. Well they got bored and left and my shard is still here...and in related news I started going back to Fel.

Oh, and Jack Daniels...sorry, never worked at Kmart - those stores were gone from my area when I was very young. I was however working on my masters degree in Economics but quit before I completed it. I ended up dropping out because I weighed the benefit of the education in terms of future income and job satisfaction against the cost of tuition (that and I hated calculus). It's called a cost benefit analysis - we studied things like that as well as the behavior of consumers and businesses in relation to changes in variables.

No, I do not find the opinion "screw the minority" very constructive.

I'm pretty sure most of us by now have reserved that most people in trammel are uninterested in pvp so there is no point designing a fel system that benefits them. Besides these are the same issues we've seen for years and at least try to be constructive, no thanks to trolls in threads like this who derail the thread.

PVP systems are different than your average add a mob and loot. Champs and Factions were sustainable for years, with minor additions. But I admire the though all you have do is play thought, I mean it's not like trammel hasn't seen numerous expansions and booster packs.


As far as the play style revenue post, that wasn't my argument so would I give a rebuttal? I'm pretty sure if PVP content isn't looking into you're going to see fewer devs.

Please spare me the argument, you don't play in fel and that's fine but don't bother derailing the thread intended for PVP.

 

[Irulia Darkaith]

As far as the play style revenue post, that wasn't my argument so would I give a rebuttal

I quoted you at the start, for that one reply, I wasn't trying to attribute everything to you, but rather to all those who replied to my post. Sorry for the confusion. But as for this post being about PvP, I thought it was about reviving Fel and perhaps something good can come out of the derailment. Like it or not we're all part of a very small community so any changes to the game will impact all of us.

 

[drcossack]

So it really is about the pixel crack and nothing more. Thank you for clearing that up.

No, I think that's what YOU think it's about. If someone pops a Harrower, it isn't done for the pixel crack/the +25 stat scrolls. If the PvP'ers got something new to fight over, we would. But it isn't our ultimate goal. Getting people to fight is what we're after, which is why spawn fighting still goes on to this day. It's not 2004 anymore. Nobody NEEDS scrolls. If you kept doing the same things day after day, year after year, in the same places, wouldn't you get sick of it?

Some of the most fun I had back in the day was at Spawns. One Oaks in particular still stands out; I don't remember who got the skull, nor do I remember what scrolls were handed out. But that doesn't matter. There were 3-4 guilds fighting over it, and it was a blast. Fighting the same people all the time, in the same places, over the same rewards for the past 10 years? It gets stale.

VvV wasn't a terrible idea, although the execution was lacking. If it gave Fel town bonuses, allowed you to pick sides, and had the old faction systems in place (like faction vendors) it'd be worthwhile.

 

[cazador]

No, I think that's what YOU think it's about. If someone pops a Harrower, it isn't done for the pixel crack/the +25 stat scrolls. If the PvP'ers got something new to fight over, we would. But it isn't our ultimate goal. Getting people to fight is what we're after, which is why spawn fighting still goes on to this day. It's not 2004 anymore. Nobody NEEDS scrolls. If you kept doing the same things day after day, year after year, in the same places, wouldn't you get sick of it?

Some of the most fun I had back in the day was at Spawns. One Oaks in particular still stands out; I don't remember who got the skull, nor do I remember what scrolls were handed out. But that doesn't matter. There were 3-4 guilds fighting over it, and it was a blast. Fighting the same people all the time, in the same places, over the same rewards for the past 10 years? It gets stale.

VvV wasn't a terrible idea, although the execution was lacking. If it gave Fel town bonuses, allowed you to pick sides, and had the old faction systems in place (like faction vendors) it'd be worthwhile.

Do you realize the uproar if there was a FC bonus is Fel and not in tram haha

By the same people complaining about VvV because their crafter has roamed Fel banks since inception...and they actually put a safe guard in for the 5 people complaining. Yet we ask for real content with substance and "silence"

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OREOGL]

I quoted you at the start, for that one reply, I wasn't trying to attribute everything to you, but rather to all those who replied to my post. Sorry for the confusion. But as for this post being about PvP, I thought it was about reviving Fel and perhaps something good can come out of the derailment. Like it or not we're all part of a very small community so any changes to the game will impact all of us.

I can't help somewhat laugh about this, you're telling me when they go to add the next trammel content, they can step back and say "See what we did for PVP?"

Gee, thanks. I fail to support this logic though.

 

[Irulia Darkaith]

Gee, thanks. I fail to support this logic though.

My logic is sound and has been used by other in this post, but perhaps I did a poor job explaining it.

I think we can all agree that the dev team has limited resources, so if they do something exclusive for PvP, that takes away resources that might go to Trammel and vice versa. When they introduced power scrolls on the Fel side, it impacted Trammel players. When they add Trammel content it impacts Felucca. When they add changes to Gardening, it impacts everyone that hates gardening and so forth. Or were you referring to some other part of my post?

 

[drcossack]

Do you realize the uproar if there was a FC bonus is Fel and not in tram haha

By the same people complaining about VvV because their crafter has roamed Fel banks since inception...and they actually put a safe guard in for the 5 people complaining. Yet we ask for real content with substance and "silence"

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Haha, true. I don't see why both couldn't have them. Although I would guess there'd be complaints about Fel getting a town bonus, even if Tram kept theirs.

 

[OREOGL]

My logic is sound and has been used by other in this post, but perhaps I did a poor job explaining it.

I think we can all agree that the dev team has limited resources, so if they do something exclusive for PvP, that takes away resources that might go to Trammel and vice versa. When they introduced power scrolls on the Fel side, it impacted Trammel players. When they add Trammel content it impacts Felucca. When they add changes to Gardening, it impacts everyone that hates gardening and so forth. Or were you referring to some other part of my post?

Why are we concerned that we are "taking resources that might go to Trammel" away?


Adding content to trammel does not attract PVP players. It attracts PVM players.


If you owned a basketball store, you wouldn't attract basketball players by only adding footballs.

I get what you were getting at, but I simply disagree.

 

[Irulia Darkaith]

I get what you were getting at, but I simply disagree.

I should just stop at this point (something most of you would agree on) but I'm a glutton for punishment so at the risk of beating this into the afterlife (too late I know), your example is a bit off I think...

To continue with your analogy...if I owned a sporting goods store and have $10 000 dollars to spend on inventory I'm going to have to figure out the best plan. Maybe the majority of my customers love basketball so I think, slam dunk, let's blow the budget on the basketball department. Now I've missed the opportunity to attract new customers who might like football or hockey, and perhaps made the existing customers annoyed enough that they shop elsewhere. If I spend it all on football, then the basketball fans are shaking their heads. Or I could spend it all on a new lacrosse section and make one customer happy. Thus any decision made impacts both sides for good or bad.

Or in our world, when they introduced power scrolls it effected everyone. If you're a GM mage you are suddenly fizzing on 7th level and 8th level spells so you have no choice but to take part in Felucca (either directly through champ spawns, or by farming on Trammel and buying scrolls from people on Felucca). Meanwhile PvPers are loving the champs because they get some excitement in their lives. Again, that's why no thread on this forum is off limits to any other group because the decision to fix or enhance one area has to come at the cost of another area (whether through a failure to add new features, or by actively changing something that makes their play style worse). That's life. Do you want to renovate the house or get a newer car, most of us can't choose all of the above.

Just look at any new expansion and hunt long enough and you will probably find at least one player who thinks their play style was neglected. God help you if you have a character with Animal Herding - where's the love for them? How long have they been waiting? Geez, at least throw them a bone and let them have more pet control slots or stable spots - it's been 18 years! But if tomorrow the devs announced they were putting resources into animal herding pretty much everyone would be smacking their heads.

Adding content to trammel does not attract PVP players. It attracts PVM players.

Again that's assuming a black and white position of all PvPers live in Felucca and nobody who PvPs has any interest in anything other than PvP - is that really true? You all live out of your bank box and the only reason you need gold is for buying new items and insurance? No one on Fel has a home with items they display? No PvPer has a character that has grown a plant, or gone fishing?

 

[Lord Frodo]

No, I think that's what YOU think it's about. If someone pops a Harrower, it isn't done for the pixel crack/the +25 stat scrolls. If the PvP'ers got something new to fight over, we would. But it isn't our ultimate goal. Getting people to fight is what we're after, which is why spawn fighting still goes on to this day. It's not 2004 anymore. Nobody NEEDS scrolls. If you kept doing the same things day after day, year after year, in the same places, wouldn't you get sick of it?

Some of the most fun I had back in the day was at Spawns. One Oaks in particular still stands out; I don't remember who got the skull, nor do I remember what scrolls were handed out. But that doesn't matter. There were 3-4 guilds fighting over it, and it was a blast. Fighting the same people all the time, in the same places, over the same rewards for the past 10 years? It gets stale.

VvV wasn't a terrible idea, although the execution was lacking. If it gave Fel town bonuses, allowed you to pick sides, and had the old faction systems in place (like faction vendors) it'd be worthwhile.

LMAO That is exactly what it is about. You think with all your BLAH BLAH BLAH that we are stupid and you yourself even state that you need something to fight over. So it is not about PvP like you are trying to get people to believe but the pixel crack reward at the end, just read what you just posted. These are your words "Some of the most fun I had back in the day was at Spawns." Nothing about pitting your skill against another, oh no it is about a SPAWN.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Why are we concerned that we are "taking resources that might go to Trammel" away?


Adding content to trammel does not attract PVP players. It attracts PVM players.


If you owned a basketball store, you wouldn't attract basketball players by only adding footballs.

I get what you were getting at, but I simply disagree.

It is the BS that you try to pedal with it, what you think everybody that doesn't currently PvP is stupid. Maybe if you take all the BS out of it and simply state we want more PIXEL CRACK to get more people to come to FEL so we have more people to kill you might al least get an "A" for effort then all this BS.

 

[drcossack]

LMAO That is exactly what it is about. You think with all your BLAH BLAH BLAH that we are stupid and you yourself even state that you need something to fight over. So it is not about PvP like you are trying to get people to believe but the pixel crack reward at the end, just read what you just posted. These are your words "Some of the most fun I had back in the day was at Spawns." Nothing about pitting your skill against another, oh no it is about a SPAWN.

Key word there: HAD. Because that's where the fighting was 10-11 years ago, when we weren't dueling on Wrong Roof, which was also fun. Thing is, people actually DID need the scrolls years back then, so they were worth fighting over. After over a decade, their time has passed. No spawn is done for the rewards anymore.

 

[Zuckuss]

Here's a thought.

The devs place several houses each month in empty fel locations. Make 20 or so event rares and disperse them among these idocs. Some idocs might have a few, some only one, and some wont have any.

Let the houses decay and observe several extremely active nights of pvp.

The "carrot" is the unique items that nobody wants to miss out on. Still run your regular events. Run the idoc events in fel. People will xfer over just for the fights.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Key word there: HAD. Because that's where the fighting was 10-11 years ago, when we weren't dueling on Wrong Roof, which was also fun. Thing is, people actually DID need the scrolls years back then, so they were worth fighting over. After over a decade, their time has passed. No spawn is done for the rewards anymore.

And because there is no PIXEL CRACK to fight over PvP/VvV is dieing so we get another PLEASE give us so PIXEL CRACK to fight over because we all know PvP/VvV is dead to the current PvPers.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Here's a thought.

The devs place several houses each month in empty fel locations. Make 20 or so event rares and disperse them among these idocs. Some idocs might have a few, some only one, and some wont have any.

Let the houses decay and observe several extremely active nights of pvp.

The "carrot" is the unique items that nobody wants to miss out on. Still run your regular events. Run the idoc events in fel. People will xfer over just for the fights.

YEP YEP YEP gotta have those PIXEL CRACK because PvP/VvV is dead without it.

 

[drcossack]

And because there is no PIXEL CRACK to fight over PvP/VvV is dieing so we get another PLEASE give us so PIXEL CRACK to fight over because we all know PvP/VvV is dead to the current PvPers.

No, VvV is dead because it sucks. But, since you're a worse troll than Malag and are only reading what you want to read, I think I'm going to make use of that handy little ignore feature.

 

[Zuckuss]

YEP YEP YEP gotta have those PIXEL CRACK because PvP/VvV is dead without it.

Frodo, What do you think all EM events are about? How about considering the fact that all events might be dead without it? Consider how many folks would be out there doing lady Mel if they couldn't get that shiny yellow hair dye. Or let's ponder how many people would be doing Medusa without the ability to get slithers. Let's question how many folks might be doing Shadowguard wihout any chance at epic loot drops. I ain't saying that's the way it should be, but that's the way it is brother.To play the greed card and to lay it all out on just the Fel/PvP players is far from fair. If I have misunderstood you, please correct me.

It's "pixel crack" that 90% of the community is addicted to I'm afraid. We are talking about how to bring people to fel? Well, there is an idea that I came up with while eating my cheeseburger earlier. I would rather throw out an idea, even bad, rather than just simply dismiss the argument that doesn't support my playstyle, plug my ears and then go:

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Again that's assuming a black and white position of all PvPers live in Felucca and nobody who PvPs has any interest in anything other than PvP - is that really true? You all live out of your bank box and the only reason you need gold is for buying new items and insurance? No one on Fel has a home with items they display? No PvPer has a character that has grown a plant, or gone fishing?

I can honestly say that I have 6 accounts with 2-3 pvp toons on each US shard. I have a house on Pac for sentimental reasons the rest on Atl due to knowing they will retain their value better than on other shards.

Other than those two servers I live entirely out of my bank. If you looked at my castle on atl you can follow my entire existence since I have owned it. Literally you will see were I first started storing gear/loot ran out of space moved up stairs and then to the top. I also have my close friends living out of my castle. So our idea of deco is usually a joke. I don't deco nor do I care to. I actually have never fished, never grown a plant, never done a tmap, never gone trick or treating, never made a tamer, never done an SoS, never done a pirate thing except when raiding a guild on tera sanctum and we dressed as pirates, never done dread horn/swoop...I think you get the point.

When I log in I am either building a suit/template or pvping. I don't expect others to understand or cater to my play style, but I would appreciate a bone from time to time.

 

[OREOGL]

I should just stop at this point (something most of you would agree on) but I'm a glutton for punishment so at the risk of beating this into the afterlife (too late I know), your example is a bit off I think...

To continue with your analogy...if I owned a sporting goods store and have $10 000 dollars to spend on inventory I'm going to have to figure out the best plan. Maybe the majority of my customers love basketball so I think, slam dunk, let's blow the budget on the basketball department. Now I've missed the opportunity to attract new customers who might like football or hockey, and perhaps made the existing customers annoyed enough that they shop elsewhere. If I spend it all on football, then the basketball fans are shaking their heads. Or I could spend it all on a new lacrosse section and make one customer happy. Thus any decision made impacts both sides for good or bad.

Or in our world, when they introduced power scrolls it effected everyone. If you're a GM mage you are suddenly fizzing on 7th level and 8th level spells so you have no choice but to take part in Felucca (either directly through champ spawns, or by farming on Trammel and buying scrolls from people on Felucca). Meanwhile PvPers are loving the champs because they get some excitement in their lives. Again, that's why no thread on this forum is off limits to any other group because the decision to fix or enhance one area has to come at the cost of another area (whether through a failure to add new features, or by actively changing something that makes their play style worse). That's life. Do you want to renovate the house or get a newer car, most of us can't choose all of the above.

Just look at any new expansion and hunt long enough and you will probably find at least one player who thinks their play style was neglected. God help you if you have a character with Animal Herding - where's the love for them? How long have they been waiting? Geez, at least throw them a bone and let them have more pet control slots or stable spots - it's been 18 years! But if tomorrow the devs announced they were putting resources into animal herding pretty much everyone would be smacking their heads.


Again that's assuming a black and white position of all PvPers live in Felucca and nobody who PvPs has any interest in anything other than PvP - is that really true? You all live out of your bank box and the only reason you need gold is for buying new items and insurance? No one on Fel has a home with items they display? No PvPer has a character that has grown a plant, or gone fishing?

The analogy wasnt for a sporting goods store . In the scenario you only have two things and you're only concerned with adding one of those things but are certain the other group will increase? No.

Regardless, I challenge anyone in pvm to go 10 years without content and see if they're still playing.

On top of it, we will then take a pvm system and botch the hell out of it and then replace it with a lesser system.

Then when the threads roll in I will sit back and ask what the problem is, they added that "great" new content for you.

 

[OREOGL]

It is the BS that you try to pedal with it, what you think everybody that doesn't currently PvP is stupid. Maybe if you take all the BS out of it and simply state we want more PIXEL CRACK to get more people to come to FEL so we have more people to kill you might al least get an "A" for effort then all this BS.

It is bs you are even posting in this thread troll.
I never asked for pixel crack.

Now run along and let the grownups talk.

 

[Lord Frodo]

LMAO Sure is funny when all the Used Car Salesmen/Politicians get all butt hurt when they hear the truth.

 

[cazador]

I'm not even sure what "truth" you've spoken..that's like saying Roleplaying is stupid because I said so and its truth, and your rebuttal it well no it's not I like it..head meet wall!


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[OREOGL]

I'm not even sure what "truth" you've spoken..that's like saying Roleplaying is stupid because I said so and its truth, and your rebuttal it well no it's not I like it..head meet wall!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Eh don't feed the troll, he's a tool.

 

[Irulia Darkaith]

When I log in I am either building a suit/template or pvping

So one could argue that suit building is part of PvP, in which case imbuing, reforging, etc are all PvP enhancments. I'm sure some PvMers like it, but it was not exclusive content to Trammel, and if all you do is PvP and build suits, then I'm pretty sure you would have been very bored with the game when it was only suits of invulnerability and vanquishing weapons. I hate the changes that came with AoS in terms of making it an item based game, and I'm betting a lot of players feel the same. So score one for the suit builders.

we will then take a pvm system and botch the hell out of it and then replace it with a lesser system

I would point to my previous reply - power scrolls, enhancing armor, imbuing etc, did ruin PvM for me...and for that matter PvP. Because I take part in a lot of different aspects of the game I can't spend all my time figuring out just one thing. As a result I can't keep up with the PvPers or PvM for that matter. Well I could, I just don't want to spend all my time on that one thing.

I challenge anyone in pvm to go 10 years without content and see if they're still playing

I would go further and challenge anyone to pick one aspect of the game and find it entertaining for 10 years without new content.
If you've managed to find one facet of the game to capture your attention (i.e. PvP) then that's amazing. The only reason I still play this game is because of the variety. I used to PvP (miss it), I used to PvM a lot more (got bored but still enjoy it now and then), I grew plants, fished, tmaps, lock picked, stealing on Fel, created every type of crafter, made multiple tamers, etc. The latest expansion did nothing for me. I could care less about dragon turtles (even though I have 3 tamers), don't care about Shadow guard - new craftables?, meh. I think asking any game to capture your attention for 10+ years when you only play one aspect is asking a lot and was probably never the vision of the developers. If you've managed to stay entertained with just one aspect of the game - then hats off to you and hats off to the developers.

As for new pixel - everyone likes new pixels - how we get it differs. If you're saying that's one huge component then add it, but also make those same pixels available to fish up, dig up, steal, PvM for, etc. Then everyone gets new stuff to enhance their play style. I don't ask you to decorate a castle to get a new item, don't ask me to PvP for it.

 

[cazador]

As for new pixel - everyone likes new pixels - how we get it differs. If you're saying that's one huge component then add it, but also make those same pixels available to fish up, dig up, steal, PvM for, etc. Then everyone gets new stuff to enhance their play style. I don't ask you to decorate a castle to get a new item, don't ask me to PvP for it.

I'm not sure where you see anyone asking you to do anything. No you don't ask me to decorate a castle to get an item, but I'm missing how that applies? :/ If you want to decorate with pretty flowers you do one of two things. Garden yourself or purchase them from someone who does. When you want a Barracuda fish pie..who knows why you want it, but you do. You either fish it up or pay someone to fish. Probably the biggest one, you want armor you either go farm it by killing monsters or craft it yourself, or again buy it from someone who does kill monsters or crafts them. So it looks like everyone has something to sell and or make, except for the avid PvP player. So in a nutshell you're asking me to play or advocate changes to all the content you participate in. It's a redundant circle. We are asking for something to entice PvP more. Spawns still need PvMers if you want to finish them in a less than abnormal time. Adding whatever it is in Fel to tram just sends people again away to sit in care bear land afk and farm 24/7. The economy wouldn't be as HORRIBLE as it is without the 24/7 Artie/Gold/Resource/Armor scripting that happens in the 100% safety of tram. Hence the reason 90% of artifacts/ new shiney items lose their appeal within a month..there's no PvP/PK element to slow down the mass flooding. If you remember correctly 1m gold in 1999-2000 was about $30-$50..now what is it? .15-25¢ do you assume it's the hoards and hoards of dupers? Or just the very basic system of which I've watched in action btw. 20 accounts farming gold 24/7 accumulating about a bil"platinum" a week with again ZERO contesting it. The game is far more grindy tedious now because of that element. Complete different topic, but I'm still so confused how anyone is forcing you to do anything, and even at that why it would be such a bad thing since pvper have been forced in essence to play in your sandbox for 10+ years..and again that's not even what we're asking for..


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[Old Vet Back Again]

So one could argue that suit building is part of PvP, in which case imbuing, reforging, etc are all PvP enhancments. I'm sure some PvMers like it, but it was not exclusive content to Trammel, and if all you do is PvP and build suits, then I'm pretty sure you would have been very bored with the game when it was only suits of invulnerability and vanquishing weapons. I hate the changes that came with AoS in terms of making it an item based game, and I'm betting a lot of players feel the same. So score one for the suit builders.


I would point to my previous reply - power scrolls, enhancing armor, imbuing etc, did ruin PvM for me...and for that matter PvP. Because I take part in a lot of different aspects of the game I can't spend all my time figuring out just one thing. As a result I can't keep up with the PvPers or PvM for that matter. Well I could, I just don't want to spend all my time on that one thing.

First point: I don't craft the suits or items, I buy them from relationships I have built over the 12+ years. Suit building is part of pvp, but not necessarily the art of 'crafting' them is. I'm not sure why you are bringing that up as a point in favor of trammel or fel only content?

Second point: I think he was referring to factions. If so, he is absolutely correct. Your reasoning is also a personal choice, just like pvp is for me. You can't ask evolution to stop in it's tracks just because it effects you more than others. All of what you stated made pvm more diverse and also, potentially more fun for players. It's not really a sound way of looking at things objectively.

 

[OREOGL]

I would go further and challenge anyone to pick one aspect of the game and find it entertaining for 10 years without new cont

I think that was my point.

I would point to my previous reply - power scrolls, enhancing armor, imbuing etc, did ruin PvM for me...and for that matter PvP.

I'm not sure this is the same scenario.

 

[Tinky Feetz]

(Steps OOC)

I've always enjoyed Fel. Let me rephrase I enjoy PvP. Whether i'm on a character with no combat skills stealing sigils or on an archer running spawns. It gets the heart pumping when you're engaged in conflict that's out of the norm (i.e. mobs do the same thing every time, they're predictable.) Players aren't generally predictable and that's something I desire in any game. I prefer to die to a player over dying to a mob any day and the satisfaction of killing a player is far greater than killing any mob.

My wife, loves First person shooters, third person shooters, consoles and computer. She hates PvP in UO. She's killed and been killed. What she hates is the constant smack talk, whether she's killed or been killed, she has to listen to how awful she is for the next hour, even if she doesn't feed the troll, it still talks $#!?. So she logs off and goes about her business. She has taken to turning general chat off at times.

Now back to the thread...
I know this is a thread on reviving Fel, but I'd like for us to bring back to the table Vice vs Virtue. I sent an email to Mesanna last week about a question that I forgot to ask at the Meet & Greet. The question was about transitioning VvV to Tram. The reply was quite . Her reply was "...we intended for it to be in Tram, however a lot of Tram folks were set against it, that we decided to drop it."
Again I understand this is a Fel revival thread but I believe that if we take another stab at putting VvV in Tram, we may get more people to learn to PVP, since it would still constitute as consensual pvp, join or don't join. This way orange players can still attack orange players everywhere. I know most of us have REDS with huge murder counts that we're proud of, and I'm not saying eat a royal forged pardon and tramp around Trammel, but I feel that if we're going to revive our beloved Fel, we need to help transition others to pvp. One of my guilds, invited a few non pvpers to join us as we did some group pvp a while back and we made them suits and helped them with hotkeys and macro building and they loved it. They said they wouldn't do it without running with us, but they totally enjoyed it.

As I mentioned with my wife, smack talking is always going to happen, but as I've told her, not every pvper is the smack talking ahole. It just happen that the ones that take it to far, keep people like her from wanting to continue pvping.

(steps back in character)
Dat bees mees tawts onna da subjecd Tank yoo fer weeding dis. *wabes*

 

[Ox AO]

This dragon Turtle in the fel area each person gets an egg rather then just one per kill.
This would have made the fel spawn worth doing.

 

[drcossack]

(Steps OOC)

I've always enjoyed Fel. Let me rephrase I enjoy PvP. Whether i'm on a character with no combat skills stealing sigils or on an archer running spawns. It gets the heart pumping when you're engaged in conflict that's out of the norm (i.e. mobs do the same thing every time, they're predictable.) Players aren't generally predictable and that's something I desire in any game. I prefer to die to a player over dying to a mob any day and the satisfaction of killing a player is far greater than killing any mob.

My wife, loves First person shooters, third person shooters, consoles and computer. She hates PvP in UO. She's killed and been killed. What she hates is the constant smack talk, whether she's killed or been killed, she has to listen to how awful she is for the next hour, even if she doesn't feed the troll, it still talks $#!?. So she logs off and goes about her business. She has taken to turning general chat off at times.

Now back to the thread...
I know this is a thread on reviving Fel, but I'd like for us to bring back to the table Vice vs Virtue. I sent an email to Mesanna last week about a question that I forgot to ask at the Meet & Greet. The question was about transitioning VvV to Tram. The reply was quite . Her reply was "...we intended for it to be in Tram, however a lot of Tram folks were set against it, that we decided to drop it."
Again I understand this is a Fel revival thread but I believe that if we take another stab at putting VvV in Tram, we may get more people to learn to PVP, since it would still constitute as consensual pvp, join or don't join. This way orange players can still attack orange players everywhere. I know most of us have REDS with huge murder counts that we're proud of, and I'm not saying eat a royal forged pardon and tramp around Trammel, but I feel that if we're going to revive our beloved Fel, we need to help transition others to pvp. One of my guilds, invited a few non pvpers to join us as we did some group pvp a while back and we made them suits and helped them with hotkeys and macro building and they loved it. They said they wouldn't do it without running with us, but they totally enjoyed it.

As I mentioned with my wife, smack talking is always going to happen, but as I've told her, not every pvper is the smack talking ahole. It just happen that the ones that take it to far, keep people like her from wanting to continue pvping.

Bolded: Yup, we've all done that. Some are definitely worse than others. I can think of a few people on LS alone who do it a lot (myself included), and we're regulars on the shard. Others will go on and on about killing you when they either rezkilled, attacked at the last second for the insurance gold, or popped out of hiding for a kill shot when you're at 10 HP. Ask them for an Arena 1v1 (or to fight on a mage) and it's crickets; alternatively, if you point out how much running they did, they book a 1-way trip to a river in Egypt

I've run into random people doing vvv towns. I had just logged in to LS yesterday when I killed one easily (not even taking any damage), then res'd him. After a quick "heh" comment, he left. A few days ago, I did the same thing, but stopped when he didn't attack me at all.

If you're not willing to fight, idc. I'll likely leave you alone, but my willingness to do so varies; during RTB, I ran into an old guildmate who was on his thief (didn't recognize the char at first, but I saw the guild tag and figured it out), so I hopped over to the Help Channel and chatted with him for a bit.

That does give me an idea though. I remember the excitement of my first trip to Yew Gate and surviving (as a newbie) against one of the regular guilds there. Sure, it involved running back to the guardzone, but at the time, it was fun and exciting getting to safety without dying. As my char's skills progressed and my own skill followed suit, I would venture further from the gate, eventually doing fighting of my own there and getting murder counts. But that's the thing. I actually WANTED to pvp and improve. The only way to do so is by continuing to do it. In PvM, once you figure out how to kill something, you likely won't forget how. Even if you do (say because of a multi-year hiatus), the AI can't adapt to change its tactics, and you'll pick it up again quickly. In pvp, you're constantly trying new things and learning new ways to beat the other player.

edit: oops, I got sidetracked in my walk down memory lane. I know some people on LS read here. Perhaps you guys would like to do a Public Harrower sometime? I could provide the skulls (except for Barracoon's, which isn't tough to get.) What do you think, @Mooselisted?